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believe in what?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Discription: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9323
Printed Date: 22 October 2014 at 9:16am


Topic: believe in what?
Posted By: 1hope
Subject: believe in what?
Date Posted: 09 May 2007 at 5:55pm

Warm greetings

 

When I reverted to Islam I was full of hope & enthusiasm, but all that has crumbled away along with the basic practice I was able to partake in (circumstance allowing). I know why this has happened, but am unable to do anything about it, so I guess my query is what all this means?

 

 

The reason is thus…….

 

I am been asked to support a nationalist/cultural ideology (so-called moderates), as a pose to an Islamic ideology (so-called Islamists).

 

I am neither of the same nationality, nor of the same culture as you, so if this stance is continued then not only do we have nothing in common, but you also set yourselves up as rivals and enemies to me. Please tell me how you expect people to embrace a religion that stresses on the importance of leaving behind the wrongs of our forefathers, when you yourselves are upon the very thing you found your forefathers upon?

 

 

I don’t why I am even asking this question, because I haven’t found a single person who is willing to accept (and more importantly face) the issue that is the division of the Muslim community.

 

If Muhammad {SAW} had - talked the talk, without walking the walk - then no one would have believed him, so how is it that you expect anyone to believe in this that you are brining to the west?

 

 




Replies:
Posted By: 1hope
Date Posted: 09 May 2007 at 6:03pm

 

It is unfair that you ask reverts to simply choose a strain of Islam that feels right to them, after all how is someone new to Islam supposed to make an informed decision? And even after a decision has been made, what sort of effect do you think it has on people when you practice something that has no place in Islam, and when questioned you sweep it under the carpet?

 

I am no longer able to take you seriously, and this scares me a little because I truly believe Islam is the right way, but I am confronted with a boy who has cried wolf so many times, his cry no longer means anything to me!   

 

 

 



Posted By: 1hope
Date Posted: 10 May 2007 at 3:19am

 

for me the game is over, i cannot remain amongst you

 

 



Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 10 May 2007 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by 1hope

Warm greetings

 

When I reverted to Islam I was full of hope & enthusiasm, but all that has crumbled away along with the basic practice I was able to partake in (circumstance allowing). I know why this has happened, but am unable to do anything about it, so I guess my query is what all this means?

The reason is thus…….

I am been asked to support a nationalist/cultural ideology (so-called moderates), as a pose to an Islamic ideology (so-called Islamists).

 

This is a called a "false dichotomy". These are not the only two choices to be a practicing Muslim, neither do these two choices have anything to do with islam.

 

I am neither of the same nationality, nor of the same culture as you, so if this stance is continued then not only do we have nothing in common, but you also set yourselves up as rivals and enemies to me.

 

 

This is a faulty premise, given that the cultures within Islam are so varied, that one cannot make the assumption that every Muslim must have the same culture or race. Asians are not the same as Arabs or Persians.

 

 

Please tell me how you expect people to embrace a religion that stresses on the importance of leaving behind the wrongs of our forefathers, when you yourselves are upon the very thing you found your forefathers upon?

 

I am at a loss. How do you define "wrong doings" and where in the Quran or the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw) are you asked to leave behind these "wrong doings" of your forefathers?

 

I am a convert, and have not found these new criteria to become Muslim.

 

 

I don’t why I am even asking this question, because I haven’t found a single person who is willing to accept (and more importantly face) the issue that is the division of the Muslim community.

 

 

divisions exist in any community, regardless of faith.

 

 

If Muhammad {SAW} had - talked the talk, without walking the walk - then no one would have believed him, so how is it that you expect anyone to believe in this that you are brining to the west?

Muslims bring the message and do not claim to be angelic. The early Muslims brought many into the folds of Islam simply due to their behavior. Now days, there are some good Muslims, and bad Muslims, and some inbetween, but they are still Muslim.

A zen master once said that he can only point to the direction of the moon, but he cannot make you see it. You are complaining because the finger is imperfect, or that the nails are too long, or the hand is blemished, and because of this, you refuse to see the moon. That is a pity.



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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 10 May 2007 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by 1hope

 

It is unfair that you ask reverts to simply choose a strain of Islam that feels right to them, after all how is someone new to Islam supposed to make an informed decision?

 

 

Who is "you"? I have never asked such a meaningless question. There are no "strains" of Islam. There is only "Islam".

 

 

And even after a decision has been made, what sort of effect do you think it has on people when you practice something that has no place in Islam, and when questioned you sweep it under the carpet?

 

 

What decision is it? What practice is it? What question are you asking?

 

I am no longer able to take you seriously, and this scares me a little because I truly believe Islam is the right way, but I am confronted with a boy who has cried wolf so many times, his cry no longer means anything to me!   

 

 

What boy? Why has he cried? Why is his tears meaningless to you?

Is it the tears, or is it you?

Kindest Regards  



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 10 May 2007 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by 1hope

 

for me the game is over, i cannot remain amongst you

 

 

 

No one can make you see the moon.



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 10 May 2007 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by 1hope

Warm greetings

 Peace  to you brother or sister?

When I reverted to Islam I was full of hope & enthusiasm, but all that has crumbled away along with the basic practice I was able to partake in (circumstance allowing). I know why this has happened, but am unable to do anything about it, so I guess my query is what all this means?


God is with the patient,
& who ever hold firmly to Allah, will be shown A Way that is straight---------------- (3:101)
Lose not heart, nor fall into despair, for you must gain mastery if you are true in Faith.(3:139)

Originally posted by 1hope

The reason is thus…….

 

I am been asked to support a nationalist/cultural ideology (so-called moderates), as a pose to an Islamic ideology (so-called Islamists).


Where do you live, who are asking you to make  choices? It  sounds like a puzzle without a grid & guide to solve
You have not revealed your own nationality, age, profession, it is inappropriate to suggest what is Allah's  command in your case over this forum.


Originally posted by 1hope



I am neither of the same nationality, nor of the same culture as you, so if this stance is continued then not only do we have nothing in common, but you also set yourselves up as rivals and enemies to me.



It is still quite cryptic - and then your ass-u-me approach is no help. What nationality or culture you are alluding to? This is internet you have nothing to gain or lose by this approach.
Originally posted by 1hope



Please tell me how you expect people to embrace a religion that stresses on the importance of leaving behind the wrongs of our forefathers, when you yourselves are upon the very thing you found your forefathers upon?



You need to be explicit instead of generalizing the subject!
Allah revealed His instruction unequivocally:
We have enjoined on man kindness to parents; but if they strive thee to join with me any thing of thou hast no knowledge, obey them not ----------(29:8)
Originally posted by 1hope

 

I don’t why I am even asking this question, because I haven’t found a single person who is willing to accept (and more importantly face) the issue that is the division of the Muslim community.

 

If Muhammad {SAW} had - talked the talk, without walking the walk - then no one would have believed him, so how is it that you expect anyone to believe in this that you are brining to the west?

 


Hold fast, all together, by the Rope of Allah and not be divided among yourselves, and remember with gratitude Allah's favors on you.========3:103
Be not like those who are divided among themselves and fall into disputations after receiving clear signs; for them is a dreadful PENALTY =3:105

When you have Quraan as quality assurance manual with a GO/NOGO gage, it is up to you use it or not use it without fear or favor.
When you forgo the standard the result is what described. Now the awakening is coming about to find what was lost in last couple of centuries, that is huge subject by itself which I am not going to indulge into. But if you study the Muslim Spanish history, it will  reveal that it helped to kick start the banishment of  dark age of in Europe.


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 12 May 2007 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by 1hope

for me the game is over, i cannot remain amongst you

But 1hope you have only 3 posts registered so far, did you use other name/names that actually you are refering?

Hey man sorry I just got confuse you know.



Posted By: on1on5
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 12:54pm

Dear 1hope, I hope you are still somewhere near here and you are wondering about the replies since this is the basic instinct lying behind the act of questioning.

I wonder if you are suffering a bit of misunderstanding about the religion. The scope of religion is beyond this world so neither the culture nor the ideology are enough to define the term of religion.

I can understand that you are to pass through a difficult way from the modern culture based mainly on a positivist perspective to the green garden of Islam, but every convert and even every Muslim born in a Muslim family are to walk this painful way. so you are not the only one. No one person chooses Islam in one night. The heart of a person passes through different stages so that it becomes open to reality and I think what happens to you is this.

As the other members, I have difficulty in seeing your situation clearly since you are not to give the details about the thing that bothers you. But if it helps; I want to give an example from a book written by a scientist who deals with  religion related psychology: he compares the first days of Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens) when he was trying to dress as Arabs of old days and today where he has no doubt in wearing a shirt and trousers as every men in western culture does. The explanation is that : this giant transition from one religion to another is an important stress for the person and he is to stick to some cultural symbols at the beginning to gain some strenght in his decision, but as the convert gets experienced about the perspective of Islam, Islamic phenomena and as the soul matures he is no more to look for the cultural symbols.

I hope you solve the problems or at least open a door for the people in this forum who want to understand you. If you believe in Islam then believe that misgivings come from the devil. Allah will not leave you.

As salaam.

 




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