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VA. Terrorist is he Gunman or Shooter

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Discription: Current Events
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9159
Printed Date: 23 November 2014 at 1:01am


Topic: VA. Terrorist is he Gunman or Shooter
Posted By: Abu Mujahid
Subject: VA. Terrorist is he Gunman or Shooter
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 8:27am

Just for thought in this difficult time.

He struck yesterday morning at the heart of Virginia Techm, with terror, killing more than thirty students and faculities. How American media characterized this terrorist.......you are judge here. I don't want to loose sight by saying until proven guilty through independent justice due process, every human is assumed innocent. That common sense prevail through  all humanity adages though they differ how they carry on. But what struck me cord was the selective words that media choose to label on this terrorist. Despite 24hr coverage in this carnage, media refused to call him terrorist. If he was muslim and push one person to side these media will cry foul and quickly give him terror title. What a hypocrite media!!!.. It look like the word terrorist is reserved and patented for muslims only.

Here is one sample of their description of the man they said he carry out this terror attack.

"Police identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department at Virginia Tech. Cho, a South Korean native, was in the U.S. as a resident alien with a residence established in Centerville, Va. Cho was living on campus in Harper Residence Hall"

 

Abu Mujahid



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Islam need true muslims



Replies:
Posted By: C6H12O6
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 10:42am

i think there has been one muslim girl identified so far.

reem



Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 11:24am

Here is today's latest information on this unspeakable incident.  What a tragedy for the students and their grieving families, and for this lost and troubled young gunman.  I'm certain his parents loved him dearly too, and are shocked beyond words at his actions, and at their loss of their son.  I am unable to even find words to speak about the horror everyone has gone through, or is going through.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/ - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/



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Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 11:28am

Assalamualikum. I think we need to sympathize with the families of the lost ones and the survivors rather than going into  such discussion right now.

Since you have already brought the topic, I would say that yes, the media were careful because frankly, if they used the word terrorist, the first thing that would have come to the mind of any audience, including muslims, would be al-qaeda or the likes. It's just fact. People have become islamophobic, there's no denying it. So I think the media didn't want to create any confusion, that's why they called the shooter 'a shooter'.



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The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 12:36pm
I don't think he was a terrorist at all.  I think he was a very confused, lonely, and lost young man.  I feel badly for his family also.

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Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 5:18pm
Any difference between this guy and a suicide bomber, I say nada
May be the order they die, the bomber goes first while shooter goes last.
Under one the definition of the word terrorist Cho Seung-Hui was able to frighten and do much bloodletting as he could plan and cause. It was bad enough terror that made students jump out of windows and had the POTUS & the Gov of state make a detour and show up at the VT convocation breaking their normal business schedule as the rest of the world stayed glued to TV screens.

All perpetrators of suicide bombings or mass murdering gunmen have a message for the next of the kins and friends of the victims with a multiplier effect of the their real or perceived sufferings. There is one  difference is that suicide bombers have more to do with a broader political spectrum of an ongoing struggle than the gunman.

He left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

He just took a leaf out of the terrorist's book but then he wasn't from the ME



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 17 April 2007 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Ghazzali

Assalamualikum. I think we need to sympathize with the families of the lost ones and the survivors rather than going into  such discussion right now.

Since you have already brought the topic, I would say that yes, the media were careful because frankly, if they used the word terrorist, the first thing that would have come to the mind of any audience, including muslims, would be al-qaeda or the likes. It's just fact. People have become islamophobic, there's no denying it. So I think the media didn't want to create any confusion, that's why they called the shooter 'a shooter'.

Bismillah and Salaams,

Good point, brother.

Brother Walid died and a Christian Lebanese woman named Reema Samaha.  Allah Yarhamhom.

Update:  They say he had the words "Ismail Ax" on his arm in red.  Some idiots on the web have written up some foolish accusation of a poor guy from Indonesia, who doesn't live in the US and doesn't even look like the murderer Cho. 

Obviously the guy was disturbed and imbalanced as an individual.  He devastated families of all races and religions.  His family was Christian, but he was just lost listening to Shaytan. 

The book "Prairie"  by Cooper has a charachter named Ishmael, who is off balance, and being that Cho, the murderer, was an English major, he may have been referencing him.

 



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 3:06pm

Salaams and Bismillah,

Assalamualaikum:

Brother Waleed was nothing less than an older brother to me. I used to
work with
him in the hydrology lab along with Dr. Loganathan.

One thing I have to say is that, Smile and Waleed was always together.
Even,
when he was having a rough day because of his extremely busy schedule,
he never
forgot to smile. He was always happy and cheered up to the fullest. May
Allah
(Subhanawataala) present him paradise.

Wasalam.

Ridwan

The blue material above is from a friend of Brother Walid.  Ridwan asked that this material be posted on blogs and sent out to the media, so here it is.

Salaams



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 3:33pm
CAIR-CHICAGO: GUNMAN'S CRYPTIC SCRAWL FEEDS ANTI-MUSLIM RANTS - TOP
Manya Brachear, Chicago Tribune, 4/18/07
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2007/04/gunmans_cryptic.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Chicago Tribune. He explains the most popular speculation sweeping the Internet refers to a story in the Quran, the holy book of Islam, about prophet Ibrahim and his son, Ismail. Upset that people in his hometown still worshiped idols and not Allah, Ismail smashes most of the statues with a sword to honor his father and his faith.

A similar story is told in the Bible, but instead of Ismail, it is Abraham's son Isaac. It is treated as a coming of age story about a young man claiming and defending his faith. Some in the Jewish tradition even consider it the biblical inspiration for bar mitzvahs.

But as Benderoff points out, Ismail is a literary name employed by James Fenimore Cooper and Herman Melville. And Seung-Hui was an English major. Not to mention Seung-Hui adopted Ismail Ax as his screen name on a video-gaming site.

It seems that every time an act of terrorism takes place, the Muslim community must step forward and apologize even though they have no connection.

Ahmed Rehab, the executive director of Chicago's Council on American-Islamic Relations, said he's too busy "gawking" at the outrageous theories.

"I'll be the first to admit Muslims have a problem with self-victimhood," he said. "But there seems to be one standard for people of Muslim faith and another for everybody else."

He notes even the most rampant anti-Muslim Web sites have suggested amid their accusations that the theory is a bit far-fetched.

But Rehab wonders if Seung-Hui were Muslim, would anything change? Would the evidence of mental problems and disturbing social interactions go out the window and the blame placed on his Muslim identity? Would it be fair to expect an explanation? Is it fair now to jump to such conclusions?

SEE ALSO:

DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL SUSPECTED VA TECH SHOOTER MIGHT BE A 'PAKI,' PART OF 'TERRORIST ATTACK' - TOP
Media Matters, 4/18/07
http://mediamatters.org/items/200704170006" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://mediamatters.org/items/200704170006

Responding to the April 16 mass shooting at Virginia Tech, right-wing pundit Debbie Schlussel "speculat[ed]" in an April 16 weblog post that the shooter, who had been identified at that point only as a man of Asian descent, might be a "Paki" Muslim and part of "a coordinated terrorist attack." "Paki" is a disparaging term for a person of Pakistani descent.

Schlussel wrote, "The murderer has been identified by law enforcement and media reports as a young Asian male," adding, "The Virginia Tech campus has a very large Muslim community, many of which are from Pakistan." Schlussel continued: "Pakis are considered 'Asian,'" and asked, "Were there two [shooters] and was this a coordinated terrorist attack?" Schlussel asserted that the reason she was "speculating that the 'Asian' gunman is a Pakistani Muslim" was "ecause law enforcement and the media strangely won't tell us more specifically who the gunman is." Schlussel claimed that "[e]ven if it does not turn out that the shooter is Muslim, this is a demonstration to Muslim jihadists all over that it is extremely easy to shoot and kill multiple American college students."

In updates to her posting, after more information became known about the shooter, Schlussel first claimed that "[t]he shooter has now been identified as a Chinese national here on a student visa," which she called "[y]et another reason to stop letting in so many foreign students." Schlussel later wrote that the killer was a "South Korean national." The killer was later identified as Cho Seung-Hui, "a South Korean who was a resident alien in the United States."

As Media Matters for America noted, in a December 18, 2006, online post headlined "Barack Hussein Obama: Once a Muslim, Always A Muslim," Schlussel argued that because Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) middle name is Hussein, his late, estranged father was of Muslim descent, and he has shown interest in his father's Kenyan heritage, Obama's "loyalties" must be called into question. As Media Matters also noted, on the June 14 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country, Schlussel falsely claimed that "there wasn't a peep" from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) when Suha Arafat, wife of former Palestinian National Authority president Yasir Arafat, stated that Israelis "poison Palestinian water and air and cause cancer for them." In fact, according to an October 6, 2000, New York Times article, Clinton disavowed Arafat's remarks after receiving an official translation "hours later."


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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 18 April 2007 at 10:10pm

This topic posed a good question: Is he regarded as a terrorist or are murderer? The answer is he is both of those things.

Part of the definition of 'terrorism' is one who frightens others or one who use systematic means (usually involving forms of violence) of coercion.

He is also a murderer under the condition of this term because this individual took the lives of other human beings.

The unfortunate part about this situation is that this individual's ethnicity/religion will be used against him in speculation. If he is Muslim, then hate crimes against other Muslims obviously will rise. If he is not, he would be considered a disturbed young man. Of course the media will create the difference in the wording. Regardless of this individual's religious convictions the result is still the same. 33 young kids are dead with no real understanding of why he took the lives of those young people.



Posted By: Abu Mujahid
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 12:07am

.

Bismillah and Salaams,

Good point, brother.

Brother Walid died and a Christian Lebanese woman named Reema Samaha.  Allah Yarhamhom.[/QUOTE]

 

salamu aliakum. I'm not sure if she was Chrisitan but if you are sure we can't say her Allah yarhamhaa. I was taught in islam Rahma in hereafter is for Muslims only. Or am I missing something here?

Meanwhile, I think media were never sensitive to muslims to begin with. Had they had any clue they will jump on it and label the terrorist Asian guy he was terrorist. But they were confused and to certain degree played wait and see game. 

For Patty, I totally agree with you that we sympathize families lost their love ones but I equally disagree with your characterization on him other than that he is coldblooded terrorist murderer. Thank God muslims is not jumping on Christianity by labelling it as terrorist religion. They know first hand that Chrisitianity was meant for Jewish tribes not global message and it was bound on region and timeline.

 

Abu Mujahid 



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Islam need true muslims


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 12:52am
Originally posted by Israfil

This topic posed a good question: Is he regarded as a terrorist or are murderer? The answer is he is both of those things.

Part of the definition of 'terrorism' is one who frightens others or one who use systematic means (usually involving forms of violence) of coercion.

He is also a murderer under the condition of this term because this individual took the lives of other human beings.

The unfortunate part about this situation is that this individual's ethnicity/religion will be used against him in speculation. If he is Muslim, then hate crimes against other Muslims obviously will rise. If he is not, he would be considered a disturbed young man. Of course the media will create the difference in the wording. Regardless of this individual's religious convictions the result is still the same. 33 young kids are dead with no real understanding of why he took the lives of those young people.

I Agree 100%



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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 11:44am

When this happened, I remember praying hard that it was not a muslim boy doing this.  I remembered the speculations about the boy from Salt Lake City and his religion.  These kind of attacks are not religion based.  They are reactions of disturbed minds to forces they feel are beyond their control.  I'm very glad that religious speculations are being kept out of the discussions by the professionals analyzing this incident.

Instead I pray for the families of the dead and the parents of the boy.  The dead have gone to there eternal rest and can't be hurt anymore.  We can pray for their souls in our own way.  Some died heroes, others left behind loved ones in disbelief. 

The boys intention was revenge, in his rants it was revenge.  Terrorism sadly, is meant as a tactic for a greater end.  Its to scare people into complying with a demand or goal of the perpetrators.  Timothy McVeigh wanted to start a race war and being the apocalypse.  OBL wants to create his own version of an Islamic State and crush those that pose opposition to his version.  These two men have no problems targeting their "own" people. 

Cho Sueng Hue wanted to avenge personal slights, but he really didn't have a goal.  His ramblings speak of abuse.  I think he shows many signs of abuse in his past.  I will not be suprised if its ever discovered he was molested as a child by a teacher or by a family friend.  No matter what, he was obviously very ill and this whole thing could have been avoided if we reformed the mental health care in this country.



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Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 1:06pm

Hi Angela!!!  How do we reform the mental health care in this country? What do you think needs to change?  This kid was voluntarily committed, but released as he was smart enough to conceal his lack of judgement, etc.  He came across as depressed but not psychotic.  What else can be done?  We can't commit people who have not been determined to have a form of mental illness which is of a degree that would require hospitalization. 

What are your opinions?  (Keeping in mind the ACLU would stop any effort to force a person into a hospital.) :)

Blessings to you!

 



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Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 2:24pm

Ummm, Patty, don't get me started on the ACLU.  They regularly sue for the right to protest on Temple grounds.  PRIVATE PROPERTY, doesn't matter if it is the center of the city.

Anyway,  If you haven't worked in the Mental Health field then you would understand what I'm talking about.  Patients dumped on the street, denied medications and treatment due to insurance.  I pay $20 bucks a week for 45 minutes with a therapist, if I didn't have insurance, its $120!  Some people are too disabled by their illness to be responsible for their own treatment.  They need forced (YES I SAID FORCED) to take their medications and undergo counselling. 

I'm sorry, public safety outweighs religious freedom or personal choice in cases of violent offenders.  Its time it stops being an excuse.  I know that when I go off my medication, I become depressed and I do not function rationally.  I'm mild, but if it weren't for family and friends keeping an eye on me.  I'd have died years ago by my own hand. 

How does it need reformed?

1.) More access for the uninsured/underinsured

2.) Better facilities with more highly trained staff

3.) Regular in home checkups on referred patients deemed a risk. (Just like Children's Services does with parents who are accused of neglect).

4.) If a patient refuses treatment and is a threat to themselves or others and checkup shows no attempts made to get treatment, institutionalization.

5.) More money spent on Health Care than on Wars in Foreign Countries with their own problems.

 

Perhaps people would disagree with me, but really, being somewhat crazy myself, I don't really care.

 



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Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 April 2007 at 8:26pm

I do not think the reformation of Mental Health facilities and gun law will cubr future violence. I think those on the side of gun control are using this event as a means to push their political agenda. Little did they know that in any open area such as a university campus, hospital, school or mall you'll risk the possibility of someone going on a shooting rampage. According to reports the signs of this troubled man were there and the English teacher should have acted on it.



Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 9:42am

Originally posted by Israfil

 According to reports the signs of this troubled man were there and the English teacher should have acted on it.

They did, or haven't you been paying attention.  The mental health system let him back on the street.  His teacher did refer him to the school mental health system.



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Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 April 2007 at 11:57am

Yeah and he signed a contractual agreement stating (as I imperfectly state) that he is coherent enough to seek future help. It is possibly that he could have faked rehabilitation, but at the same time there should have been an extensive background check in this young man's history of psychological disorder. Not just concerning his writings but perhaps his family, if he has any in the States.  the only reason he was referred to a mental health facility was due to the continual annoyance of a female student. Apparently, he constantly "bugged" her and she reported it to the campus police on several occasions I believe.

It may be possible that during his time in receiving outside help he could have acted as if he was rehabilitated but there is also the possibility he wasn't.




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