Print Page | Close Window

Why don’t you ask African Americans

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7628
Printed Date: 21 December 2014 at 11:13pm


Topic: Why don’t you ask African Americans
Posted By: Jenni
Subject: Why don’t you ask African Americans
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 3:45pm
If you are all mad about my post that I agree was generalizing, then consider this. First of all I admit not all Muslims are racist, definitly Islam itself as a faith is NOT RACIST. But I will say that I believe 50-75% of Muslims are racist in some way. Whether it is Arabs that can't stand Pakistanis, or Pakistanis that can't stand black Africans or African Americans it exists widely in our community and people don't talk about it and are in total denial. You CANNOT blame the west if you have never invited an Ethiopian refugee to your home. And it is not a conspiracy by the west if YOU would not allow your son to marry and african american convert!! And if you see the war in Iraq and feel sad and cry about it and want to help, but see the black people in darfur, or the Congo, or chad and are numb to thier pain and suffering then you have a problem, not me!

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.



Replies:
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 3:53pm

By the way, how many of you would invite a convert who is African American to your home? I know there are lots of converts out there, but I never see them at any Arabs, or Southasians home. Brothers in the Masjid, but outside the Masjid your on your own!

Maybe I am upset, but I am tired of people being in denial. I have no problem calling an American on the carpet about the war in Iraq and what a total load of crap it is, and I also have the right to call my own community on the carpet and air their dirty laundry. I live in one of the most liberal educated parts of the country and I still see the Muslim community as split, divisive, secluded by culture, race, education class and financial class. Even more so than the larger American community.

When I married my husband it was a huge scandal because I am a white convert and he is south asain. I come from a poor family with a policeman father and a mother that never went to college. He came from a wealth Military family. He had a masters degree I had a community college degree. He got a huge amout of heat and trouble for wanting to marry me. My family(who are mormons) accepted him more quickly and with open arms much faster that his did!



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 4:03pm

Wa Alaikum Salaam Jenni

Jenni I understand (as well as share) some of your frustrations regarding the Muslim community, but even myself I would say we must limit ourselves in generalizing other Muslims. Although racism exist in the muslim community we cannot say that "all muslims who are non-black, are racist." The same goes for those who would think black muslims are only those of the Nation of Islam you cannot understand how many times I get that only because I'm black. Jenni what you are proposing is beyond this forum and those who involve themselves in dialogue here. The progressive change from ethnocentrism to pregressive thinking will come....in time.

This emuslim community is not ready to here the word "racism in muslim community" because some believe and this is always funny to me, that because Allah says that he created all humans and that Islam contains multi-ethnic groups that it cannot possibly be racist. That is as funny as someone saying a KKK member who enjoys watching black athletes is not racist....LOL

The racist mind is a disease and no human is immune to it because it can creep into anyone of us, but it takes strong will and knowledge to avoid this sick mind. Jenni let me say that I appreciate your voice and you putting the issue out there but it must done so in a way that does not shun others. I know that in your frustration its hard to NOT generalize the muslim group because you have experienced this but we still must refrain from lumping others who practice true Islamic thought into this category.

This ecommunity is not ready to hear that media wise, Arab conflicts get more attention than African/Black conflicts. They are not ready to here that the muslim culture is not racist when in fact it contains very much racist elements within it. Some would argue that in order to make change we shouldn't dwell on the bad things but that may be true to an extent. However in order to make change on something we must identify the problem to change. In this situation its racism in our community.

Your thread is titled "Why don't you ask African Americans?" Well I as an African-American am saying that racism exist within the Muslim community although not on the scale as, let's say, the United States but the fact that it exist we must be aware of it and make change. We comment so much on political issues that we begin to blind ourselves of our political zeal, overlooking the other important issues. In my opinion "black" is the most underappreciated pigmentation of human history. Not in the physical sense but in the ethical and metaphysical sense. Global cultures for instance abhor its color and any association with it hopefully, Godwilling this will change.



Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 5:12pm

Thanks Israifil, I understand what you are saying. And I who has had alot of exposure to wealth upper class and upper middle class Arabs and south Asains have come to understand that they are mostly prejudice in some form. Some of my more open minded Muslim friends(born here) will openly agree with this fact saying thier own parents are very prejudice and would never have allowed them to marry a black person. My friend who married an African Immigrant had a daughter and then divorced him tried to remarry and no Arab or Southasian would consider her becuase her duaghter was black. She had hundreds of responses to her photo and profile but when they found out her first husband was African, they were in no way interested and very honest about it. And again this was hundreds of people. The reason I am being so in your face rude here about this issue, is I am so sick of people saying" Oh we are all brothers and sisters ect." but outside the Masjid people ignore and marginilize each other. I will stick with my comment that 50% or more of Muslims are in some way racist, not just here  but around the world. In fact in Pakistan I was told by and African American man teaching there that people point to him laught and say Look! A Negro A negro! He was so disgusted with the attitude of the people towards his color he couldn't wait to leave!

I guess I am rambling, but I believe peoples xenephobic and ethnocentric attitudes make them care for the plight and suffering of people that look and talk more like them. Hence I beleive that the Suffering in parts of the African world is ignored by some of the Muslim community because those people don't look like or talk or maybe think like us. And the love of white skin has been ingrained in Arab culture and south asain culture for centuries. Making it easy to just kind of ignore poor black people. Like they don't even exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes thats it! they just ignore them, like they aren't there. They don't even exist!



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 18 November 2006 at 9:57pm

Originally posted by Jenni

If you are all mad about my post that I agree was generalizing, then consider this. First of all I admit not all Muslims are racist, definitly Islam itself as a faith is NOT RACIST. But I will say that I believe 50-75% of Muslims are racist in some way. Whether it is Arabs that can't stand Pakistanis, or Pakistanis that can't stand black Africans or African Americans it exists widely in our community and people don't talk about it and are in total denial. You CANNOT blame the west if you have never invited an Ethiopian refugee to your home. And it is not a conspiracy by the west if YOU would not allow your son to marry and african american convert!! And if you see the war in Iraq and feel sad and cry about it and want to help, but see the black people in darfur, or the Congo, or chad and are numb to thier pain and suffering then you have a problem, not me!

salaams and bismillah,

an african american sister was so kind enough to allow her children to become my nephews and stay in my home for the weekend.  may Allah bless her faith in me.

some white american sisters think i am not good enough to talk to.  so what?

only speaking for myself i care for all of these situations and try to follow as much as i can on the news and the net and the radio.  however, since my family are from certain areas of the country, i pay more attention to what happens where they are.  similarily, my children are Phalasteenee, so this issue is not just a world issue but a family one wherein family members are in danger daily and many friends whom i love live without basic needs in phalasteen.

personally, i wish i could be 'numb' to their suffering because i cry and cry when i hear about their difficulties.

i also feel badly for the israeli jews who are neglected by their country so that they can have money to send bombs to kill innocent phalasteenee.

salaams



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 6:40am
The numbers of African Muslims who die every year from starvation and warfare are in the millions. I'm sorry, but the number of Palestinians being killed doesn't even come close. The suffering in Africa from disease, civil war, corrupt governments, and famine makes Palestine look like a picnic. I mean come on lets be realistic! I feel for the Palestinians too, but they get much more help, have alot more media attention than other poor suffering people. And my husband is Pakistani, so my children are half. I don't feel the suffering in Kashmir or Paksitan should be any more important to me or them than the suffering in Africa.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 6:44am

Herjihad, what is the comment about Israeli jews about? I really don't get it and what do they have to do with this topic? I am really tired of people not addressing the topic and putting blame on others. Muslims are responsible for themselves regardless of what others do.



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 8:02am
Originally posted by Jenni

Herjihad, what is the comment about Israeli jews about? I really don't get it and what do they have to do with this topic? I am really tired of people not addressing the topic and putting blame on others. Muslims are responsible for themselves regardless of what others do.

I agree.



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 9:10am
Thank you for hearing me Amah. I appreciate it.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Jenni

The numbers of African Muslims who die every year from starvation and warfare are in the millions. I'm sorry, but the number of Palestinians being killed doesn't even come close. The suffering in Africa from disease, civil war, corrupt governments, and famine makes Palestine look like a picnic. I mean come on lets be realistic! I feel for the Palestinians too, but they get much more help, have alot more media attention than other poor suffering people. And my husband is Pakistani, so my children are half. I don't feel the suffering in Kashmir or Paksitan should be any more important to me or them than the suffering in Africa.


Thats cold, So how many Palestinians should IDF kill to get your attention?

Why Don't you to go Palestine and enjoy the "Picnic", Palestine gets peanuts compared to what Israel gets.

Also African countries have lot of resources, like Gold, Diamond,Oil,Copper & Ivory to name the few. What do Palestinians have?


-------------


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by amah

Originally posted by Jenni

Herjihad, what is the comment about Israeli jews about? I really don't get it and what do they have to do with this topic? I am really tired of people not addressing the topic and putting blame on others. Muslims are responsible for themselves regardless of what others do.

I agree.

bismillah,

why are you ignoring my comment about my dear african american friend who is most welcome in my home and i in hers?  and the fact that some white sisters denigrate me as beneath them?  where is the race issue here?  nowhere.  i am not racist and neither are most of my friends.

you brought up how unimportant palestinian deaths are and how you personally aren't going to care more about deaths in pakistan, even though your husband's family lives there.

talk about a cold heart!  maybe you're not thinking before you post.  we should care for our family, and neighbors, those tied in blood relations and those closest to us physically as an islaamic duty.  i have people i know dearly who are relatives through marriage who are suffering each day because of the curfews and blockades in phalasteen.  i care for and cry for the ugandans, peruvians, ethiopians and more.  do you want to measure your love and care?  do so.  but you could stop attacking people who have family and dear friends who are suffering and dying under israeli occupation.

you expanded the topic in your exposition and i replied to it.  sorry you didn't notice that sister amah.

keep a topic open that's addressing the issues in places you feel are neglected rather than put down people for caring about places where their family and friends live. look under regions and africa for topics you could contribute to so that you could really increase people's concern.  because attacking people's love for phalasteen or afghanistan or pakistan isn't going to make them care about your topic.

salaams



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 12:08pm

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by Jenni

The numbers of African Muslims who die every year from starvation and warfare are in the millions. I'm sorry, but the number of Palestinians being killed doesn't even come close. The suffering in Africa from disease, civil war, corrupt governments, and famine makes Palestine look like a picnic. I mean come on lets be realistic! I feel for the Palestinians too, but they get much more help, have alot more media attention than other poor suffering people. And my husband is Pakistani, so my children are half. I don't feel the suffering in Kashmir or Paksitan should be any more important to me or them than the suffering in Africa.


Thats cold, So how many Palestinians should IDF kill to get your attention?

Why Don't you to go Palestine and enjoy the "Picnic", Palestine gets peanuts compared to what Israel gets.

Also African countries have lot of resources, like Gold, Diamond,Oil,Copper & Ivory to name the few. What do Palestinians have?

Bismillah,

Jazzak Allah Khayr, Brother Ak. It's really no picnic at all there.  And remember the family that took time for a picnic by the sea and was massacered a few months ago? 

IstagfirrAllah.



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 1:27pm

Herjihad, I am saying a life is a life. A palestinian is no more important than an African to me. Nor a Pakistani is more importand than A Bosnian to me. A life is a life, again and I feel as sad when an African child dies as when a Pakistani child dies. Race or culture does not bring me closer to anyone. Family is another issue which I am not talking about here, of course you care for ones family, but is every Palestenian your family member? Moreso than every African Muslim? I NEVER said I don't care about Palestinians, so please don't put words in my mouth. People here respond to posts emotionally without really pondering what the person has said.

And use your brain and you will understand that suffering comes in degrees. How many people died in Ruwanda? 3million people were slaughtered, chopped up, raped, shot and tortured. That is the reality. IF you had your choice between living in Gaza or living in Ruwanda during the Genocide, or living as a black Muslim in Darfur what would you choose??? Obviously one situation is more grim than the other and the suffering in parts of Africa where there is NO HEALThcare NO FOOD NO SAFETY NO CLEAN WATER NO SCHOOLS, MALARIA, AIDS, MILLIONS OF ORPHANS, CIVIL WAR ect. I will again say that Palestinians don't have it as bad and factually I can prove it with death rates, infant mortality rates,  death by famine and starvation rates ect. It is not my opinion it is just the facts. I WOULD MUCH rather live in Palstine than Sudan!



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 1:28pm
Herjihad, while I commend you efforts with your friend, you are in the minority. You may very well be not prejudice(I beleive you are very open and loving to all Muslims) but that is not the case of what most people do.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 1:34pm
Akfm- I not talking about what Israel gets compared to Palestinians, that is not the POINT!!! I am talking about Palelstine compared to Darfur!! Or other parts of Africa. You all really are not reading my posts.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 1:50pm

I would love to start a poll but I think this one would be impossible since No one in Darfur has a computer with internet access. But just for fun it would be

 

If you are from Darfur would you accept immigrating and living in Palestine?

If you are in Palestine would you like to immigrate and move to Darfur??

HMMMMMMMMMM I wonder what the out come would be 200,ooo ready to hop on a plane for palestine, 0 ready to head for darfur. Thats just my guess.



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Salih88
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 2:10pm

Asalamualaikum,

I think it has do with Western culture. Yes, in America  and other "Westernized" countries there is a mix and some incouragement of the sharing of cultures but, in the media we have this segragation of races. For example comedy, every comic on tv has some stereotipicle joke in his act and people, though they know there joking, get ideas about races that are false. Aslo, for instance at the university I attend we have all types of racially didvided groups which fosters the seperation of the races.

Yes i am African American but i am a slave of Allah first, this is what Muslim don't realize. Many Muslims are trying to adopt the Western way of thinking thinking it is best but we already have the best example from the Rasuallah(saw) and he companions who consisted of people of many races. We have to realize that the greatest bond we share is our love for Allah, not where we come from or even blood. What makes our Ummah special is the mix of races but thats not what brings us together.

It starts with you(everyone in the forum) and me. We have to foster that love between a small group, bring others in, and spread it to the leadership. Thats where the main problem lies. Many people who lead masjids want to worry about their community not realizing it is a global community. Often these masjids are split up into racial masjids. Black, Saudi, Pakistani, Afgani, etc. I love going to other masjids to meet different muslims and it hurts to see people shun those who they should love because of where they come from . If you say La ilalaha Ilallah then you are my bro/sis.

Salih

P.S. I want to apologize if my reply was all over the place it makes me mad when the muslims treat each other worse then they treat non-muslims.



-------------
"Be patient over what they say and remember Our servant, Dawud, the possessor of strenght; indeed, he was one who repeatedly turned back[to Allah]" Surah Sad- Ayat 17


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 3:00pm

Originally posted by Jenni

Herjihad, while I commend you efforts with your friend, you are in the minority. You may very well be not prejudice(I beleive you are very open and loving to all Muslims) but that is not the case of what most people do.

Bismillah and Salaams,

i am not trying to be racially diverse.  it just happens amongst muslims with hearts who are not so judgmental of each other and are accepting of each other's differences and similarities.

i proffer that your comparision is foolish and needs to stop.  injustice needs to stop and these comaparisons of who is more in pain and has more suffering are not productive.

read left to tell by a survivor of darfur.  you would be surprised that your assumptions are not supported by one survivor.



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 3:23pm
Herjihad, I don't understand your point at all. And who is most needy is valid. The world health organization looks at and mantains these statistics. You are getting emotional and I am just being realistic. The poorest nations in the world are countries like Mali and Niger in Africa. Last year when I did a post on it and sent emails to my friends about the famine about to kill Millions in the horn of Africa none of them knew of it. On this site many had never even heard of the country let alone the problem. We are talkin millions of Muslims starving to death. Yet everyone knows about Palestine, or Afghanistan. WHY????There has to be a reason that some are ignored while others are protested for. While some get money from the Saudis and other rich gulf states while others get none. What is the reason? Again I will say it is Racism. An Arab will help an Arab before he will help a poor black African. And I believe no matter what anyone says that is wrong!

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 3:24pm
Herjiad, again you did not read my post, I did not say you are trying to be racially diverse. So please read what I really said.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 3:34pm

Salih88, I agree with you. I wan't things to change but am irritated by peoples slow acceptance that there is a problem. I have said that Islam itself as a faith is in no way racist. I am saying that Muslims have come to love thier own tribe, clan, kin , racial, ethnic group too much. They have forgotten about helping each other and for some reason the poorest blackest people in the world are forgotten the most. I want people to wake up and see that Africa is on the verge of utter desolation destruction and ruin and it is happening under thier noses. ANd I want Muslims to care about them as much as thier Arab or Asian brothers and sisters. Finally every poor person in the world REGARGDLESS of thier religon should matter to us. Every child is born a Muslim and dies a Muslim. Every poor suffering person that could be help could potentially become a Muslim. We could start in our own communities.

Last year when the Earthquake happened in Pakistan and it was all I heard about in the Masjid. I REALLY COMPLAINED that hey, the horn of Africa has Millions on the brink on starvation dying as we speak. They had never even mentioned it. Finally they did, maybe only one time. But they did. Progress, but too slow!



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Jenni

I WOULD MUCH rather live in Palstine than Sudan!

That's because you've never lived in Sudan and you know NOTHING about Sudan or Sudanese people.  I lived there, it was wonderful, the people, environment, lifestyle, everything.  You began your rant about the Darfur issue, but the truth is you are ignorant of the Sudanese government.  The government that you just looooooooove attacking has opened its borders to millions of refugees from Africa.  But ofcourse you wouldn't know that because you've never been there.  The descendents of the great islamic scholar from Negeria, Uthman Dan Fodyu, fled to Sudan when they were being persecuted in Nigeria, and they're still there!  Oh and not to mention the University of Africa in Khartoum has THOUSANDS of Africans studying and living FOR FREE, the government picks up the tab.  The Sudanese government has done more for their muslim brothers and sisters than most.

Like I said, if you or anyone else realy hates racism so much, DEAL WITH IT IN AMERICA.  Or are you going to pretend it doesn't exist.  Are you going to wait until your husband is taken form work beaten and thrown in jail without any ritghts.  Or until your daughter is gang raped, or your son is killed because some racist bigot figured "half breeds" aren't human.  That's the reality of the U.S.  This is the mentality of many (not all ofcourse) Americans.  So protect your family, and start working on racism in AMERICA.  I have non-muslim friends in the States that have gone through this.  It's a reality, avail yourself of it sister.

Your post is called "ask the A-A."  Well technically I'm African American because my Dad's Ethiopian and mom is American.  So let's see, what's been my experience.  I grew up around lots of foreign muslims mostly Africans, Arabs, Iranians, Afhanis, and Pakistanis.  I was never mistreated or made an outcaste!  As a matter of fact my most beloved teacher was a sheikh from Lebanon.  I studied at his foot from the age of three until he passed, rahimahu allah (I was about 19).  Racism????  I sure didn't experience it.   The university I study in is international.  My friends/sisters are mostly from North Africa, East Africa, the Middle East, and Pakistan,and a few Asians.  Racism????  I sure don't see it.  On the other hand my maternal uncle was shot to death by white police officers in L.A (and for your information he wasn't in a gang, doing drugs, in possession of a weapon etc.).  Racism????  OH YEAH!  My point is DEAL WITH RACISM IN AMERICA!

One last thing, it is very annoying when you all refer to the poeple in Darfur as "black muslims" or "black Sudanese."  I understand that this is what you're hearing on the news and old habbits are hard to break.  But try to remember everyone in  sudan is BLACK, and though some are mixed with arabs (from way back when), they are all AFRICAN, and with the exception of a some christians (both from the south and other parts of sudan) they're all MUSLIM.  Excessive labelling is just another "divide and conquer" strategy.  It started from British colonization in the region.  We're muslims we should be better than that.

Jenni, if the Muslims around you are racist (and prejudice is probably a more appropiate label) it has nothing to do with their being Muslim, it's because they're HUMAN.  They're still your muslim brohters and sisters.  You don't have the right to backbite them.  Make da'wa to them.  Invite the sisteres to your house and make a halaqa for discussion on the issue (change starts with the mothers!).  Or, go to the mosque on Friday, after the Khutba, stand up and talk to the sisters.  I have a lot of friends who do this at the university mosque (just don't talk so loud that the brothers can hear).  You can make flyers and pass them out.  Or you could start a fundraising committee with some of the sisters (sell baked goods, baby-sitting club etc.) and then send the money to the country you feel is being neglected by the Ummah.  There are a lot of things you can do.

Salam



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 7:56pm

Bismillah and Salaams,

So I asked someone whom I thought might fit your theme of Ask African Americans, and she said she is black and Native American.  But she agrees with you that many Muslims are racist.  Interesting.

I disagree, but then I'm not African American either so you weren't really asking me.

Sister, I'm not being emotional with you.  My emotions are busy elsewhere with my family and friends.

Peace out.



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 8:03pm

Ak, I love you like a step-brother (if there is such a love of this kind) but the following comment pissed me off and was Bull**** and no offense but I'll tell you why I thought it was bull**** you said:

"Also African countries have lot of resources, like Gold, Diamond,Oil,Copper & Ivory" You followed this comment with the question: "What do Palestinians have?"

This is exactly my point of how Muslims are ignorant to the problems in Africa and I'm surprised....err....wait lemme change that, not surprised that Herjihad agreed with you. I think its unfair for non-blacks to comment on a black problem just as its unfair to other ethnic groups that blacks comment on an ethnic problem therefore I'll refrain from henceforth commenting on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. But what I have issue with is people comparing suffering using additives such as the resources one country contains as a litmus test of who is priviledged more and who suffers more.

Ak that comment was really offensive. Do you honestly think those Africans control those resources? the Dutch in the south has in fact raped the Africans and in their schools retell the story of the Dutch people as if they were the first in habitants of that continent. Africans do not control their own resoruces in Africa contrary to what you may think. Every heard of apartheid? Every heard of African slavery? Yes it still exist. The people with the power and the money are not the Africans. Before you spew such garbage please note the sufferings of those people over there and not justify the great importance of another groups suffering (in this case you note the Palestinians) by comparing it to resources (in this case you use gold, diamond etc). I don't mean to get emotional but the two realities are not the same.

Again it goes back to the suffering of then Palestinians! You act like their suffering is the worse of its kind. Many human beings suffered. Jews, Blacks, Arabs, Turks, Armeninans most human groups have suffered. But comparing resources and using it as a litmus test to judge the importance of anothers suffering is in my humble opinion garbage thinking.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Ak, I love you like a step-brother (if there is such a love of this kind) but the following comment pissed me off and was Bull**** and no offense but I'll tell you why I thought it was bull**** you said:

"Also African countries have lot of resources, like Gold, Diamond,Oil,Copper & Ivory" You followed this comment with the question: "What do Palestinians have?"

This is exactly my point of how Muslims are ignorant to the problems in Africa and I'm surprised....err....wait lemme change that, not surprised that Herjihad agreed with you. I think its unfair for non-blacks to comment on a black problem just as its unfair to other ethnic groups that blacks comment on an ethnic problem therefore I'll refrain from henceforth commenting on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. But what I have issue with is people comparing suffering using additives such as the resources one country contains as a litmus test of who is priviledged more and who suffers more.

Ak that comment was really offensive. Do you honestly think those Africans control those resources? the Dutch in the south has in fact raped the Africans and in their schools retell the story of the Dutch people as if they were the first in habitants of that continent. Africans do not control their own resoruces in Africa contrary to what you may think. Every heard of apartheid? Every heard of African slavery? Yes it still exist. The people with the power and the money are not the Africans. Before you spew such garbage please note the sufferings of those people over there and not justify the great importance of another groups suffering (in this case you note the Palestinians) by comparing it to resources (in this case you use gold, diamond etc). I don't mean to get emotional but the two realities are not the same.

Again it goes back to the suffering of then Palestinians! You act like their suffering is the worse of its kind. Many human beings suffered. Jews, Blacks, Arabs, Turks, Armeninans most human groups have suffered. But comparing resources and using it as a litmus test to judge the importance of anothers suffering is in my humble opinion garbage thinking.

Salaams and Bismillah,

Ak, don't worry.  Some of us here love you like a real Muslim brother rather than like a second-class stepbrother.  I mean, I don't even use that word with my real step-brother.

Sorry, but this hick whitey will continue to comment on black, white, yellow and a whole rainbow of issues.  When are white issues talked about here anyway?  Yeah, I know who cares about the coal miners unless it's front page news anyway? 

You guys miss out the entire point.  It's not an issue of race at all.  It's the issue of power and money rule and here we are arguing about a silly issue of semantics when we need to pull together to care for and love all of the oppressed people.  You give me your information, and I'll give you mine and we'll use it to help each other instead of comparing death rates.  We'll build a community of caring, concerned sisters and brothers who are working on changing the dominion of the powerfully rich to making this world one run by true concern for each other all over this globe.

I don't want to sleep peacefully and forget one suffering soul if Allah gives me the strength to do something about it.  So let's work together on issues we all care about.  People, we're Muslims.  We're family in Allah's eyes.  So of course families bicker, but let's get on to the real work real soon, y'all.



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 8:25pm

Israfil, I totally agree with you. Herjihad, Thank you for getting another perspective.

Abeer23 That is your opinion, I go to college with some of the black african so called Lost boys from Sudan and they have a very different story of murder, opression, prejudice, and having to flee thier homes with nothing. So I think your opinion may be biased. Ask the people of Darfur about how they feel about the Sudanese government.

Abeer23 I deal with racism in America all the time, My husband is very dark skinned south Asain and my kids are mixed.People ask me if my children are adopted and I have to allways expain where their dad is from and get lots of looks. We get stared at especially when we leave California. So I am living it, I am trying to change it and there are lots of good people of all faiths trying to change things. That does not change what is happening in the rest of the world. You may have had a good experience here but alot of people have not. And you may not know about all the inside stuff of helping each other out with jobs, and alot of other things that people keep in their own cirlce. Also how many African Americans of Africans did you see married to Arabs or Asians? I agree with some of what you say, but don't compare apples to oranges.And your opinion is biased.



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 8:26pm

Herjihad the comment was a freggin joke give me a break!

I'm sorry if I didn't use emoticon to note that!

Herjihad you have no idea what it is to be black nor understand the suffering of blacks both domestic and globally so therefore, any comments you mention regarding issues within the black culture are null and void because you lack one element: ethnic experience. When you cease to be the "hick whitey" and become black/African/Black-Cuban/latino or whatever and comment on the plight and suffering of this ethnic group then I will listen. When you speak on problesm and issues regarding African problems as you "know" the problem it becomes void. The same rules applies ot myself. I am not Palestinian therefore, I cannot understand the plight of the Arab Palestinians nor can I say I understand their suffering.

You obviously missed the point what AK said!

He used African resources (which Africans do not control themselves by the way) to denote a "higher suffering of the Palestinians. To me using comments to show additive suffering is BS. Suffering amounts to the same experiences IT's ALL SUFFERING. Of course you didn't get that point when I critiqued his view did you?



Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 9:06pm

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 9:28pm
Hanan, why is it that Isrifil understands what I am saying and others do not. Why is it I have recieved several private messages saying they agree with me but won't argue it here because people here will never admit anything and are in denial. You are making false accusations against me and again getting emotional and angry. Tell me one lie that I have made here. I gave names in my last post of why are Muslims so racist of 2 organizations that are doing work in the region, so maybe you are drunk or unable to read. I said ask African Americans becuase they are often excluded from community afairs, this is not just my opinion but Jeffery Lang a famous phd and author who lectures on Islam around the country at universities says this in his lecture again and agian. He says quote"In spite of Islam, we Muslims tend to be very prejudice people" and goes on to give numerous examples of why this is so. All of which are hard to deny. I say ask African Americans because they are often ignored in the Muslim community just like the muslim communtiy ignores their black brothers and sisters in Africa. That is my point and if you don't get it, that is your problem, plenty of people do.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: candid
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 9:39pm
I suggest that everyone ignore Israfil and Jenii from now on. These are the type of people who create differences between Muslims by whining over their own personal issues (at the pretext of addressing the issues of the whole Muslim community) and blaming all the Muslims in the world for it.


Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 11:05pm
Originally posted by Jenni

Israfil, I totally agree with you. Herjihad, Thank you for getting another perspective.

Abeer23 That is your opinion, I go to college with some of the black african so called Lost boys from Sudan and they have a very different story of murder, opression, prejudice, and having to flee thier homes with nothing. So I think your opinion may be biased. Ask the people of Darfur about how they feel about the Sudanese government.

Abeer23 I deal with racism in America all the time, My husband is very dark skinned south Asain and my kids are mixed.People ask me if my children are adopted and I have to allways expain where their dad is from and get lots of looks. We get stared at especially when we leave California. So I am living it, I am trying to change it and there are lots of good people of all faiths trying to change things. That does not change what is happening in the rest of the world. You may have had a good experience here but alot of people have not. And you may not know about all the inside stuff of helping each other out with jobs, and alot of other things that people keep in their own cirlce. Also how many African Americans of Africans did you see married to Arabs or Asians? I agree with some of what you say, but don't compare apples to oranges.And your opinion is biased.

No Jenni that wasn't just my opinion.  I gave you FACTS, that I know you are unaware of due to your arrogance in truly seeking to understand what's going on Sudan.  My beliefs are not biased in the least.  Why?  Because my closest friends are from both the Darfur Region, the Capitol (orignally from the North), and also from the South (I taught English while in Sudan, and the Sudanese Christians take Studying English very seriously).  I see what's going on in Sudan much more objectively than you do.

The examples that you have given me show me how you are a victim of racism in American, not how you're ACTING TO CHANGE IT.  Right now, what you're doing is making fitna (or trying to make fitna) amongst muslims.  I must inform you though, the zandaqa movement is not new to the Islamic community; keep in mind that Allah is watching and listening to you.  I'll tell you for the last time, backbiting is HARAM. 

And to answer your question, I know lots of African-American Women married to Arab men, as well as some Arab women married to African-American men.  In my personal experience, I notice the men tend to marry foreigners more than the women do, which is understandable (people are more protective of their baby girls). 

Salam



Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 19 November 2006 at 11:11pm

Originally posted by Jenni

I say ask African Americans because they are often ignored in the Muslim community just like the muslim communtiy ignores their black brothers and sisters in Africa. That is my point and if you don't get it, that is your problem, plenty of people do.

Now who's talking like a racist, the Arabs and Pakistanis or Jenni?

 



Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 12:17am
Originally posted by Jenni

By the way, how many of you would invite a convert who is African American to your home? I know there are lots of converts out there, but I never see them at any Arabs, or Southasians home. Brothers in the Masjid, but outside the Masjid your on your own!

Maybe I am upset, but I am tired of people being in denial. I have no problem calling an American on the carpet about the war in Iraq and what a total load of crap it is, and I also have the right to call my own community on the carpet and air their dirty laundry. I live in one of the most liberal educated parts of the country and I still see the Muslim community as split, divisive, secluded by culture, race, education class and financial class. Even more so than the larger American community.

When I married my husband it was a huge scandal because I am a white convert and he is south asain. I come from a poor family with a policeman father and a mother that never went to college. He came from a wealth Military family. He had a masters degree I had a community college degree. He got a huge amout of heat and trouble for wanting to marry me. My family(who are mormons) accepted him more quickly and with open arms much faster that his did!


You talk about Muslim Community split ---I think subconsciously you  might be comparing  the Muslim community with your Mormon community and that is  not  going to be helpful. The subcontinental culture is caste based and you should not expect any idealistic  response from the nouveau riche crowd you are dealing with. They made the money and they want to behave in a certain way, that what everybody does in the USA. Don't you notice the poor class neighborhoods are different than the upper class and far removed from the former. The rich Muslims don't live next to poor Muslims, it is the American way. This can only change when they will have any true need to create a community of their own and there is remote possibility for that where they can live together. They have a baggage of bondage and they are satisfied in that.

You said your husband come from a wealthy military family, you need to understand the African issues sitting home. I can't believe a poor country like Pakistan can create wealthy military families unless the military officers are robbing the country blind. The Pakistani military dictatorship is raping the country as if God has forsaken the place. How a military officer can become wealthy without bribery or land grabs; can not happen though honest living
Do you understand how the dictatorship operate?
And why it is happening cuz they are still working for the old colonial masters. They are bas***ds and scum of the earth. They are just awful models in the Muslim countries.
 Now it is similar situation is in Africa you have dictatorships and all the monkey business recurrent from the colonialism. It is again the politics of money and corruption in the dark continent. Your tirade is not gonna make an iota of difference.
The African post colonial problems are too intractable for your south Asian crowd to handle or even know what to make of it.
I don't think you understand the African problem yourself.
The doctor  diagnoses the problem first and then calls for the right medicine. You need to define the problem in clear terms first and then the solution of it.
And the debate on internet is also called the running of Special Olympics and even if you win you know what you will be still?




-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:08am
Abeer23 when I brough up the issue of female circumsicion people did the same thing to me. And the topic was closed. I would rather have Muslims argue and debate and crtitsize each other than our dirtly laundry being aired all over the western media. Why is is when anyone is critical of what some Muslims do no one ever accepts it and everyone gets angry and then someone blames isreal? You are totally irrational. Who am I backbiting against? To backbite I would have to give you a persons name, you don't even know who I am or who any of the people who I am talking about are. And by the way, if Sudan is so great why have 300-400 thousand people dead and many more fleeing into Chad? And why isn't this great government helping them. Don't accuse me of anything Abeer, you are going too far. It is my right to speak up the way I see fit and not live in a fairy tale that "Oh we all love each other, oh isn't it special" What a load of crap. Some people may feel that way, but honestly most people have not been treated that way. And most muslims have had another Muslim discriminate against them in some way. I have a clean heart and I know that by getting people angry then MAYBE THEY WILL PROVE ME WRONG!!! Because on this issue I would love to be wrong!

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:12am
Abeer23, Most African American people think of Africans as thier brothers and sisters regardless of religon. Oprah refers to her African brothers and sisters all the time. While I am thier sister in faith, I am not thier sister in the same way. So please stop trying to pick on me!

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:17am
Signreader-My husbands family got land from the military because his father died in the 1971 India Pakistan war. He was a high ranking official and killed in battle on the front lines . That land was given as compensation to his family, wife and 3 kids. Then it was worth little now it is worth a fortune only because they got lucky that it is prime real estate in Lahore. If it weren't for that his mother only got a 2000 rupee a month pension. So don't assume everyone is on the take. My husbands brother and sister are both hard working Physicians. I agree their is alot of corruption in Pakistan and I have complained about that before and people tell me to fix my own government or mind my own business!

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:54am

This is really to all.

Originally posted by candid

I suggest that everyone ignore Israfil and Jenii from now on. These are the type of people who create differences between Muslims by whining over their own personal issues (at the pretext of addressing the issues of the whole Muslim community) and blaming all the Muslims in the world for it.

hey, now that is not fair, and Jenni has addressed that not all muslims, she may have generalised in the begining but has corrected herself. There have been others who have agreed with Jenni who have posted. And also she has said that she has recieved pms from others who agree with her but won't share here because they are afraid ( i guess from the backlash from those who disagree as is what is happening now!, and I can understand that quite frankly, some muslims here don't make it a nice place to converse with each other. And quite frankly that is a huge problem among muslims here at this board.



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 8:14am

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 8:17am

Hold fast to the rope of Allah, and be not divided



Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 8:38am

Hanan, I appreciate your kinder response. And while you may think I have been discriminated against, well maybe yes a little. But let me say that with my white europrean face(my ancestors are nordic people), blue eyes, blond hair and being rather tall. I have found that things come fairly easy to me and people treat me rather well. When I was younger I would get every job I applied for, my teachers allways took an interest in me. Even today living in an area where white people are the minority asains and arabs allways comment on how lucky I am to have big blue eyes and straight hair, and not to have thick bushy eyebrows. Meanwhile I am looking at them thinking you don't know how beautiful you are to me. And I love your black curly hair and thick eyebrows. I think they are crazy. I have many friends who wear a hijab and still lighten thier hair to blond because they are so self consious that thier husbands are seeing all the pretty blond white girls on T.v. I think being white gives me huge advantage in life. And it is one that I don't think is fairly given! Some asian women are trying to bleach thier skin to be more fair and in Southeast Asia the more fair skinned a woman is the easier it is to get her married. This is a reality. So if white is great, than what about black? That is my whole point. All I am saying is that dark skinned people here in the u.s. are often margenilized in and outside the Muslim communtiy with african american converts being the most excluded. And people in poor African countries recieve less help per person than people in poor arab or asian countries despite they are more needy. Why is this??? I don't think it is fair, and I feel Muslims are not doing enough for them and when I bring it up in conversation people don't even want to talk about it. I really believe sadly many people are more happy to ignore the whole African continent in general. Except Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and they aren't Muslim as of yet.



-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 8:39am
Originally posted by Abeer23

Originally posted by Jenni

Abeer23 That is your opinion, I go to college with some of the black african so called Lost boys from Sudan and they have a very different story of murder, opression, prejudice, and having to flee thier homes with nothing. So I think your opinion may be biased. Ask the people of Darfur about how they feel about the Sudanese government.

Abeer23 I deal with racism in America all the time, My husband is very dark skinned south Asain and my kids are mixed.People ask me if my children are adopted and I have to allways expain where their dad is from and get lots of looks. We get stared at especially when we leave California. So I am living it, I am trying to change it and there are lots of good people of all faiths trying to change things. That does not change what is happening in the rest of the world. You may have had a good experience here but alot of people have not. And you may not know about all the inside stuff of helping each other out with jobs, and alot of other things that people keep in their own cirlce. Also how many African Americans of Africans did you see married to Arabs or Asians? I agree with some of what you say, but don't compare apples to oranges.And your opinion is biased.

No Jenni that wasn't just my opinion.  I gave you FACTS, that I know you are unaware of due to your arrogance in truly seeking to understand what's going on Sudan.  My beliefs are not biased in the least.  Why?  Because my closest friends are from both the Darfur Region, the Capitol (orignally from the North), and also from the South (I taught English while in Sudan, and the Sudanese Christians take Studying English very seriously).  I see what's going on in Sudan much more objectively than you do.

The examples that you have given me show me how you are a victim of racism in American, not how you're ACTING TO CHANGE IT.  Right now, what you're doing is making fitna (or trying to make fitna) amongst muslims.  I must inform you though, the zandaqa movement is not new to the Islamic community; keep in mind that Allah is watching and listening to you.  I'll tell you for the last time, backbiting is HARAM. 

Actually, Abdeer while I don't disagree with you that some sudnese are probably happy but Jenni is right also, many sudanese arrive where I am because of what is happening, of what Jenni has mentioned. Stop telling her that she is wrong.

And to answer your question, I know lots of African-American Women married to Arab men, as well as some Arab women married to African-American men.  In my personal experience, I notice the men tend to marry foreigners more than the women do, which is understandable (people are more protective of their baby girls).  Salam

That's funny you tell Jenni that she is wrong but at the same time you use personal personal experience to  well you experience some thing different while jenni experiences something different to, opposites but the difference is that you think you are right because you don't see it, which you have said by the way. But jenni and others do. IT does not make them wrong  or that they don't have the facts, they do. And that is a fact.

I haven't exactly experience racism either just like you Abdeer, but I do see it. Unfortunately you and some others don't see it, but are too much in setting others right when they are right as well.

You say you are from africa but live in america (i think) which would make you african american, Israfil is african american to not once have to opposed him who agrees with Jenni, why is that? You both are african american but have opposing views, shouldn't you be at logger heads then?



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 8:40am
Hanan, I speak of my kids as half or mixed because they are. That is just a fact. They are 50% mixed northern european ancestry and 50% pakistani punjabi ancestry. They know and understand it, and to not admit it would be dishonest to them. Of course they are whole people, but we can't pretend that thier parents are the same race when their friends started asking them questions about us in preschool.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 9:17am

but shouting and twisting someone’s arm into submission isn’t going to get you anywhere

And those who are opposing aren't doing the same??

I don't believe Jenni was twisting anybody's arm into submission, make people see otherwise, yes submission, no. As for shouting sometimes you need to shout above the crowd to be heard, and it can be frustrating when no one understands.

Of course this can be said of the opposing side.

But really what has happened here is both have talked about their experiences and brought facts but since both wouldn't see, you kept on cancelling each other out with you are wrong, i am right. 

Both are right, stuff on both sides happens and that is a fact.  

and in between i think my quiry some posts back got forgotten



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 11:02am

I think that people are affected by the societies around them. We are influenced by TV, the news etc. I have met a number of Arabs who will not move into "black" neighborhoods, even though we have, here in DC, the highest percentage of black millionaires in the world.  How can they not be somewhat influenced by this? Even on a subconscious level?  As someone wrote, Moslems are human. Just like every one else.

To a degree Jenni, you are raising, in my mind, a bigger question, why are we so affected by things. I mean that we are influenced by things around use. I can tell I am. To a degree that is very natural. One of my parents was recently telling me that her daughter, who is six, already wants to dress and look a certain way. And she started a new school where basically she is the only blond child in the class. And she was complaining to her mom why she cannot have dark hair! Her mother who is very open minded and has traveled thought in a way it as great, as it is going against societal norms. So we cannot eliminate our human instinct to compare and contrast, to want to belong. What has to happen is we recognize it for what it is and not participate in it as adults to the best degree we can.

I often find it interesting that when people describe a situation “there was a black woman…” And I’ll ask, “what does being black have to do with it?” 99% of the time the way a person looks has nothing to do with the story.  And it is true..  we have used these words too often that ultimately limits us. It is the same thing as when Moslem is used as a category when it may have nothing to do with the story. I don’t hear in the news “A Christian man shot and killed his neighbor.” But if the person was Moslem watch it happen. It is the same when you hear a story you rarely here.. This “white guy sat in my seat.” But if he non-white, we will generalize about how he looked, as if that has anything to do with it.

As far as international.. I think Africa is the forgotten continent in the world. When we think of travel, how many people want to visit it? Do we think of it as anything other then "backwards?"  How many people can name more then 5 countries? The people of wealthy countries do not see it as valuable and worth the time and effort.  Then if there is less attention, there is less publicity about it, and fewer people have heard about it.   I think in a sense Jenni you ask a good question, why is not more being done for people? Certain areas seem to be the playground of the weapons dealers and some western countries and China.  Plus Palestine seems easy to “understand.” There is an obvious oppressor and oppressed. And in fact in many areas it is complex. How does one really help?

I also think that we cannot use terms that we use here in the US and apply them to other areas. Because we, here in the US, have our own history, including a specific type of racism and oppression. When we attempt to transplant it to other places with their different histories and experiences it does not work. That may be why when we use the term “racism” it cannot be applied to a different situation.  It is important to allow for people to define their own experiences.   

Peace



-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 1:09pm
Angel and Hayfa thanks for your comments.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 5:48pm

Candid wrote:

"I suggest that everyone ignore Israfil and Jenii from now on. These are the type of people who create differences between Muslims by whining over their own personal issues (at the pretext of addressing the issues of the whole Muslim community) and blaming all the Muslims in the world for it."

Candid I care not whether people ignore me! Truth is truth.



Posted By: aus
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 10:51pm
Peace to all,

I think you should all come to kenya,mombasa,where i live!..im a black muslim myself,married to an arab girl and thats what has been happening for centuries!..it so happened for long that the arabs and the local community intermarried and a whole new language was borne "swahili"....which is a mix of arab,bantu,hindi and portugueese!!!...so.the thing is,as long as islam is exercised in an environment where theres no suspicion and hype....so many things will be easy.Islam has tackled the issue of racism with ease and its often repeated in so many hadiths and quotations from the Quran.We all know what the prophet said about discrimination of any kind..he called it "odour"...any kind of assabiya is odour.

I know muslims have little bit had to streghthen family ties than muslim ties,even when the faiths are diffrent,but we should change,here in kenya,we demonstrate,cry,weep and fight with the kenyan police whenever theres somthing affecting our muslim brothers and sisters anywhere in the world,we did for kashmir,we did for afghanistan,we did for iraq,we ddo for palestine much more than daily,infact i personally have broken two tv sets by the anger and fury in me when i saw dead bodies of young kids in jenin massacre so much so that i through a bottle of soda through the t.v screen,we did for darfur and recently we did for lebabon.....why?..because the prophet said that the muslim ummah is like a body,when one part of the body aches,the rest of the body feels the pain.Allah (SWT) says that the best among you (muslims) is one who has taqwa and not anything else.If its marriage,we should get examples from the swahabas,we have bilal a black former slave with hard hair who married the daughter of a rich arab during teh days of the prophet.

Indeed the problem nowdays is the lack of a proper islamic leadership that can bring muslims together,than can make muslims hold onto the rope of Allah,and that leader is the khalifah,inshaalah let us all fight for a khilafah and indeed we will strongly be bonded without any kind of differences emanting in any form inshalah.

Jazzakallahu khairan.

Aus



-------------
KHILAFA IS THE ANSWER!


Posted By: aus
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 10:56pm
Peace to all,

so many typo errors!!!.lol..bear with me...i write through the mouth sometimes!!

Peace

Aus

-------------
KHILAFA IS THE ANSWER!


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 11:01pm
hafya, good post  minor points I would disgree with but those are unimportant here.

-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 11:11pm

Aus....

 



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: aus
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 11:31pm
Angel....i know!..there gotta be a way to introduce a topic....eventually......dont u think!

Aus

-------------
KHILAFA IS THE ANSWER!


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 11:48pm
let's go back to your welcome thread and discuss, this is not the thread for it

-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: aus
Date Posted: 21 November 2006 at 3:08am
angel..it was just FYI!!!!!!!!!..and i can do that anywhere..cant i?   

-------------
KHILAFA IS THE ANSWER!


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 21 November 2006 at 5:30pm
Aus very good points nice post.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 21 November 2006 at 11:55pm

Originally posted by aus

angel..it was just FYI!!!!!!!!!..and i can do that anywhere..cant i?   

sure



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 5:31am

The Lineage and Family of Muhammad [pbuh]

With respect to the lineage of Prophet Muhammad [pbuh], there are three versions: The first was authenticated by biographers and genealogists and states that Muhammad’s genealogy has been traced to ‘Adnan. The second is subject to controversies and doubt, and traces his lineage beyond ‘Adnan back to Abraham. The third version, with some parts definitely incorrect, traces his lineage beyond Abraham back to Adam [AWS]

Exert taken from the thread entitled ‘the life of Prophet Muhammad (saw)’, within the Prophets – Muhammad board.

 

 

 

Peace Jenni,

 

I think you will find part of the problem lies in the above, if people believe they are the inheritors of a ‘pure bloodline’, those who are not of that bloodline are seen as inferior.

 

One only has to look at Jew’s they believe they have been favoured purely due to their bloodline, a state of mind in which their behaviour has become irrelevant. If you have seen the film the Da Vinci code you will be aware of the extent some Christian’s place upon lineage, whether you believe there is any truth in the tale is another matter. 

 

When I have attended Masjids I have found Arabs dwell with Arabs, Pakistani’s with Pakistani’s, African’s with African’s, and whites well they have no one to dwell with in my area.     

 

 

 

Regarding your comments about putting blame upon others, I think you will find the Muslim leadership is tasting the consequences of their actions. They have neglected parts of their community, and now find they have been tarnished with the same brush as those whom have (out of desperation) turned to so-called extremism, these people have done so because their own leadership/government have not listened to their problems, so it is impossible for the leadership to offer any solution.

 

 

 

    


Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 9:03am
99antony-Thanks for your refreshing post, I like the perspective you gave the topic. I agree with you about the leadership. Are two big Masjids here and one, led by all middle eastern Arabs and Palestinians, second one led by Pakistanis and Indians. Half of the time we don't even have Eid on the same day in the same city because the two can't agree about the moon sighting. Which means you can have Eid with the Majority Paksitanis or majority Arabs but foget about seeing all your friends on Eid it you mix with more than one group. Finally in spite of many SubSaharan Africans in our area and Eastern European Muslims they have no position or power in the Masjids since these are elected officials, only Arabs or South Asains get elected. With the exception of Humza Yousef who lives in the area and is a White convert who speaks perfect Arabic and therefor has broken through the cultural boundries.

-------------
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 10:15am

It is a good point you raise with regards to the lack of voice minorities have within the ‘Masjid hierarchy’, and the problem is not just based on belief/race either. Without wishing to wonder too far off topic, I believe the message of the Masjid, is the message of those who contributed the most financially in both the building and upkeep thereof.

 

Below is an hadith stating the responsibility the Muslim community should have for all members of its society (with regards to physical wealth). And below that a beautiful exert and hadith about man’s pride and arrogance resulting from an absence of spiritual wealth.

 

 

 

Narrated ‘Adi bin Hatim {RA}: While I was sitting with Allah’s Messenger {SAW} two persons came to him; one of them complained about his poverty and the other complained about the prevalence of robberies. Allah’s Messenger {SAW} said, “As regards stealing and robberies, there will come a time when a caravan will go to Mecca (from Medina) without any guard. And regarding poverty, The Hour (Day of Judgement) will not be established till one of you wanders about with his object of charity and will not find anyone to accept it…” [Sahih Al-Bukari: Vol. 2: 494]

 

 

 

The Old Testament

Book of Proverbs - 16

 

1:The preparation of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

2:All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

3:Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

4:The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

5:Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

6:By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

 

 

Narrated Abdullah bin Mus’ad {RA}: Allah’s Messenger {SAW} said. “Whosoever has pride in his heart equal to the weight of an atom (or small ant) shall not enter Paradise.” A person amongst the audience said, “Verily, a person loves that his dress should be beautiful, and his shoes should be beautiful.” The Prophet {SAW} remarked, “Verily, Allah is Most Beautiful and He loves beauty. Pride is to completely disregard the truth, and to scorn (look down upon) the people.” [Sahih Muslim: Book of Faith: Vol. 1: Hadith No. 164]

 

 

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 12:08pm

deleted because i deemed it to be off topic



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 12:26pm

edited for the same reason as above

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 November 2006 at 12:36pm
i would actually like to know IC's view on this issue (because it seems as though we mean nothing), so i have invited fatima to offer us their view (seen as though she is part of the 'IC team'). 


Posted By: fatima
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 5:10am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

JazakAllah khair for inviting me brother, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala knows alone that every thing which is benefiting ummah as whole is important to us. But some time we dont participate because we might not have something which adds any weight to the thread. Anyway my intake on this issue is our lack of understanding of our beautiful religion. I dont think there is problem of race in muslims alhamdulillah but the problem is lack of practices of religion.

The other day i was surprised to read that only 21% muslims pray regularly, means that above 70% are prefering this short life above the pleasure of their Lord. The brotherhood comes with religion and if majority of us are not paying attention to 'The Pillar of islam' then rest is secondary. When you have Love of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala in your heart then you would love for His sake as well. 

Now why dont we see inter racial marraiges is not as racist issue as it might look like. For marriage every one looks for commonalities to give a better chance to this bond. For practising muslims, most of times there is not much contact between girls and guys so when it comes to marriage, parents are the one arranging it. Now if we realisticly see there are very few people above 40 or 50 who speak english so that restricts their social life with people who speak their language. Another reason is place where you living, where i live about 98% muslims are pakistani origin, another place nearby is about 98% somali muslims. When people came from their native countries they settled with people who were from their region so thats how these communities formed.

But in families who can all speak the local language their is a good percentage of marriage outside the regional boundaries. People who are into their religion want to marry some1 who has similar values as them. I know an egyptian sister married to an english revert brother, a yemeni brother married to an english revert, a somali brother married to an english revert and a pakistani sister married to an english revert. This is because those people dont want to give preference to their culture so its easy to be with people who have not got this burden and know islam as their only culture. I dont think there is any racism amongst the more practising people but problem is we dont have many of those.

I also dont believe that we feel different towards opprssion against white, arab or black muslims. A common person can make dua and i am sure that every one remembers muslims as a whole, as an ummah in their dua. Alhamdulillah i pray that Ya Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala make us muslims straight on your path, having islam in our deeds and imaan in our heart. Resolve us from our troubles and make us united as the first of our generation. I never pray that make pakistani muslims better muslims or anything like that. And as a muslim it should be our practice to have good opinion of other muslims. If i am praying like this then i am sure rest of muslims are too because i know my faults so i know i am not better than any1.

See you talk about darfur, we also got same situation in pakistan, in borderline of balochistan, muslim army killing muslims. I have never started a thread about this, dont mean that i dont think about it or pray about it. Its just that sometimes if you start talking about things like this then others remember oppression against them by other muslims and it creates a rift in the heart. Our tragedy is that we dont have a sincere leadership who could do something about these matters, for us our tool is dua and alhamdulillah Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is best of helpers.

wassalam



-------------
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 8:25am

Fatima stated: This is because those people dont want to give preference to their culture so its easy to be with people who have not got this burden and know islam as their only culture.

 

 

I believe this were we differ, Islam is beyond culture, it is a message (and a warning) for all mankind and jinn. To suggest Islam is some how cultural (and hence belongs to one culture as a pose to another) exposes the very essence of why the divisions between Muslim’s are so deep rooted.

 

Holy Qur’an

Saba'

 

28. And We have not sent you (O Muhammad SAW) except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.

 

 

For me it is an insult that you have suggested that I seek to become Muslim because I have no culture of my own, I am happy with my culture and its (scientific) problem solving credibility. You make me ask myself why I strive to learn about you, when you seem so nonchalant about all cultures other than your own [and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another: Qur’an 49:13]. And this is not about opening rifts in people’s hearts, its about people not caring for other than their own.

 

 

 

Below is the address for a page entitled…..

 

Sources from Quran & Hadith, For Creating The Islamic State / Ummah

 

http://www.islamic-world.net/islamic-state/evidence.htm - http://www.islamic-world.net/islamic-state/evidence.htm

 

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 9:33am

 

for too long there was a spell cast upon me, from this day forth you have no right to dicate the terms of religion to me!

 



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 10:39am

I now realise that this has been a one way relationship from the very beginning, one of the more blatant examples of this was the precondition I was told I had to meet if I were to become a ‘salafi muslim’, which was namely to acknowledge that I knew nothing at all….. talk about clearing the way to be brain washed!

 

Having said that I do not regret spending the past three years of my life with Muslim's, as I don’t regret investing the years before with Buddhist’s.

 

Now, well there is no more I can do here, I think it is quite clear my word means nothing.    

 

 



Posted By: fatima
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 12:07pm

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Brother i think you got me wrong, i dont think that people who revert to islam have no culture of their own. But i think that mashaAllah they are so blessed, they have so much courage that they make islam their culture and giveup everything contrary to it. You are right islam is for human and mankind all and in the eyes of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala best one is who has most taqwa (mindful of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala).

wassalam



-------------
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL


Posted By: aus
Date Posted: 23 November 2006 at 10:03pm
Peace to all.

Why are we reffering to islam as a "CULTURE"???????.

For Gods sake islam is not a culture!..when someone uses the term culture you reduce islam to a mere ritualistic religion,which islam aint.

Islam is a complete way of life,which is umbrella thought over all kind of thinking,,which defines each and everything,meaning,it even defines cultures!!!..so to view it as a culture is tantamount to not doing islam a right!...its like comparing islam to christianity or hinduism or budhiism,which is wrong,,islam goes beyond that.Let us have a higher thinking brothers and sisters.

peace

Aus

-------------
KHILAFA IS THE ANSWER!


Posted By: Taalib19
Date Posted: 13 December 2006 at 6:28am
Jenni

In regard to your post and addressing "Is there Racism in Islaam," the answer is definately YES. I was born Muslim (One who is of Peace) and retook my Shahaadaa when I was 21 years old. You may ask why did I retake it? Because prior to then I was not living my life as a true Muslim which many today still are not doing. There are many things that they do not accept or are in denial of, racisim, is one of them and has been a dividing factor for centuries. A war has forever, been going on with the Pale Arabs vs. Dark skinned people of which the Prophit Muhammad himself was. His family was totally sought after and killed by these same professors of the faith. The first Khalifah Abu Bakr was chosen because of wealth and being a Pale Arab. So before we go painting a picture of how beautiful Islam is we should recognize these facts. A war has been going on for centuries against people of color. If you ask a Pale Arab the origin of Muhammad (pbuh) he will deny his true origin and say it does not matter just like a Christian does with Jesus. My question is if you are so true to the faith then why lie about its origin? Or for that matter the origin of those that are responsible for it? Perhaps envy is the real culprit here and like it says in Suratul Faatihaa they wish to deceive. So let's really get our "Diyn," in order and not just the parts we feel comfortable with for a Muslim can also be a "Coverer of the Truth."


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 13 December 2006 at 7:34am

Originally posted by Taalib19

Jenni

A war has forever, been going on with the Pale Arabs vs. Dark skinned people of which the Prophit Muhammad himself was. His family was totally sought after and killed by these same professors of the faith.

Are you saying that the Prophet sallahu alayhi wassalaam was dark skinned??? Your reference?

 The first Khalifah Abu Bakr was chosen because of wealth and being a Pale Arab.

You are wrong.... he was chosen by the companions because they knew that the  prophet himself wished this (though he never said it in words).

So before we go painting a picture of how beautiful Islam is we should recognize these facts.

Islam is beautiful, racism has no place in islam, if some muslims are racists, then they are going beyond the boudaries of islam.

 A war has been going on for centuries against people of color. If you ask a Pale Arab the origin of Muhammad (pbuh) he will deny his true origin and say it does not matter just like a Christian does with Jesus. My question is if you are so true to the faith then why lie about its origin? Or for that matter the origin of those that are responsible for it?

Perhaps envy is the real culprit here and like it says in Suratul Faatihaa they wish to deceive.

Could you elaborate what is written in surah fatiha? I didnt quite get you here..

So let's really get our "Diyn," in order and not just the parts we feel comfortable with for a Muslim can also be a "Coverer of the Truth."

correction: not a muslim...a hypocrite is.



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 13 December 2006 at 10:45am

As' Salaamu Alaikum Sister Fatima,

You have stated some valid points regarding some of the reasons immigrants from the East (or Far East) who migrate to Western countries seek out communities that are common to them. You also mention that immigrants from countries that come here are so used to their previous culture in their respective countries that they do not acclimate directly from the previous culture to their present. This is true in some cases.

As an African-American and Muslim I've always constantly made poinmts regarding the racist attitudes by some Muslims. There is really no way I can articulate myself here without someone misunderstanding my point. Hopefully what I say here ill be clear.

My biggest problem with some Muslims (well actually I have many problems) and the community is that racism especially discussing it is taboo in some forums. Some Muslims are made to believe that racism in the Muslim community is not prevelant enough to warrant a global discussion on the issue so its left to the Imams of various communities across the world. Another problem with this line of thinking is that we use America as a litmus test to gauge the importance of discussing racism.

On I.C. so many Muslims say "Well it is not as bad as America." It may be true that racism is not as prevelent as it is in the States but it does exist. The fact that exist should be problematic enough for us to acknowledge it, and discuss it. Racism in the Muslim community is not a new occurence. It existed well before the Prophet Muhammad and even within his existence in Arabia it showed itself in Hadith where Abu Jahl refers to Bilal as the "Son of a slave woman."

Another problem I have in our community is we constantly contradict ourselves. We say its understandable (and right) for Muslims in the East and West to retain their cultural behaviors in matters of marriage (i.e. Marrying someone of the same ethnic group, language etc) because its of a familiarity. Those of you agree with this, reprimand those us who disagree with you. But let us look at the facts here.

Islam is a culture which is commonly shared by all adherents of different ethnic groups. The philosophy of Islam is that, the Muslim community is made to be an example of an egalitarian society. A reflection of God's influence of divine law on earth. If various ethnic gorups within the Muslim community are made to behave in accordance to their own ethnic traditions this could in turn, also influence the religious behavior of some Muslims. An example of the latter we see in the history of the "manifest destiny." I hope you understand this.

I'm sorry, but I'm against using culture as a means to judge another human especially marriage. No wonder we are seen as regressive thinkers because we only think inward. If everytime I was to go in a liquor store to buy soda or snacks or to marry someone of a different ethnic group only to be judged because of my skin tone then our understanding of Islam truly fails. This is why I cannot see how some Muslims allow themselves to let their culture especially their thought on who to marry supercede Islamic thought.

The prophet said:.....Well, it doesn't matter to some Muslims really as long as some Muslims say "A same ethnic relationship is far more successful than people of different ethnic groups." Of course they say this without references but what do I know? This is one of the reasons why I try not to quote the Qur'an or use Allah's name. Much like the Jews I feel that as a community on this earth as of this point we are unworthy of quoting the Qur'an or mentioning Allah's name. Because we are so wrapped up in ourselves we refrain from thinking rationally about life. This is one of the reasons why Muhammad in his state of rejecting polytheism turned away from the materialism he saw in Arabia.

 



Posted By: fatima
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 3:55am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Wa'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahe wa barakatuhu

I partly agree with most of your points except about quotation of Holy Quran. Brother the problem is much deeper than the skin colours and adhering to native cultures. I only want to say one thing and that is the day when our mosques are as filled on fajar and 'Isha as they are on Jummu'ah, inshaAllah you will see the change.

wassalam



-------------
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL


Posted By: niqab_ummi
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 7:19am

Assalamu'Alaikum,

Insha'Allah this reaches ALL of my muslim BR's and SR's in  the best of IMAAN!

I really don't know what to make of this thread?

From picnic massacres to whites against blacks to cold hearts and empathy to what we see on tv..........

Here's an idea maybe as an Ummah if we spend less time analyzing and more time giving Dawah we will be in better shape than we are now....Remember Dawah starts with ourselves first and our own actions.....

Ask any muslim do you pray...most will say "Yes"

Ask any muslim do you fast...most will say "Yes"

Ask any muslim do you give Zakat...most will say "Yes"

Ask any muslim do you believe in the last day...All will say "Yes"

Ask any muslim do you go to Jummah Salat....most will say "Yes"

ASK ANY MUSLIM....DO YOU GIVE DAWAH....some will say "Yes"

remember Dawah can be a smile....and a simple as saying...Assalamu'Alaikkum...

Like a row of dominos all lined up all it take is one to make a chain reaction and once it's in motion Allah(swt) knows best where it will end....

You can solve world hunger...war....and racism with a smile.....and with Dawah...before you point fingers and pass judgement look at yourself and your actions and start with yourself and others will follow your example and get more involved and help others...It will happen all it takes is the first domino to topple over.

MasSalaama



-------------
Umm Abdelkhalek


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 10:18am

As'Salaamu Alaikum Sister Niqab_Ummi,

Thank you for your poetic post but unfortunately your position is not practical to the situation going on.

Sister Fatima the point regarding your disagreement of my comment on the "Qur'an" was clear evidence that you misunderstood me. I was not quoting Qur'an first off I was imperfectly quoting Hadith but I may have mispelled the name "Abu Dharr" with "Abu Jahl" but I was referring to what the prophet said to the individual who made the remark and told him that he was still in a state of 'Jahiliyah' (period of ignorance prio to Islam).

So what is your point by saying the problem is deeper than skin color and culture? That seems to be everyone's asnwer I'd like for you to elaborate on what you mean by the problem being deeper than skin color and native culture. It appears, judging from your statement there that these two aspects are not significantly important....

This again brings me back to the point I was making earlier that many Muslims fail to "want to acknowledge" that racism exist in the community by downplaying it and comparing it to other problems. Some use the examples of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict as a guage of importance. We shouldn't rank or oppression based upon what plagues other people in the world. Suffering is the same result if it were to effect palestinians or an African-American firefighter who suffers from institutionalized racism. These conflicts are different yes but the end result which is oppression, suffering are the same.

Honestly Sister Fatima its kinda useless for me here to say it here because again, unless you lived through it as I have it's kinda pointless expressing my point here. People who are in fact ignorant of the situation usually respond with impractical quotes about "holding hands and singing a song" to make the world better but the reality is, is that many converts of different ethnicities do experience racism within the community within the mosques. We should addressed these issues within our own communities as I have done in mine.

Fatima forgive me but I think you and the dozens of others here truly do not understand this. It's unfortunate that some of you don't (or choose not to) take action as I have.



Posted By: niqab_ummi
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 11:59am

Assalamu'Alaikum,

I did want to address Israfil:

Thank you for your poetic post but unfortunately your position is not practical to the situation going on.

Insha'Allah Allah knows best but isn't the entire premise of Dawah and education as Our Prophet Muhammad PBUH has taught us practical?Shouldn't we look at the Sahaba and how they learned from Prophet Muhammad PBUH and went out and taught by example and word Practical? Isn't the entire premise of Sunnah and all of it's teachings Practical?

I'll have to be honest it doesn't matter how many times I read the Quran every passage is practical and it does address today's issues and when I take what I've read and learned and apply to myself and than outward in the form of Dawah it is practical.

I live in a multi-cultural family in America and have traveled this glorious planet that Allah(swt) has created for us to live in and I've seen the best and worst it has to offer and I can say very strongly that Dawah does work.

If as muslims we can only take the Quran and Sunnah and implement it into every action and thought every aspect of our day and give Dawah to all of our community than change will start.

You look at a starving country or a country seiged by war and crimes so horrible that it's the basis in our home why we don't even watch tv and you see the canned and dry goods you see the orphans that have shoes and a clean orphanage to sleep and learn in you see the family that has food to eat and babies being vaccinated and you see DAWAH...you see all of this because a muslim in a far away place started with him or herself and made a change they woke up that day and said I will do something anything to change the situation. You see Dawah does work and it will work and when everyone does try their best change will take place.

MasSalaama



-------------
Umm Abdelkhalek


Posted By: Taalib19
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by amah

Originally posted by Taalib19

Jenni

A war has forever, been going on with the Pale Arabs vs. Dark skinned people of which the Prophit Muhammad himself was. His family was totally sought after and killed by these same professors of the faith.

Are you saying that the Prophet sallahu alayhi wassalaam was dark skinned??? Your reference?

 The first Khalifah Abu Bakr was chosen because of wealth and being a Pale Arab.

You are wrong.... he was chosen by the companions because they knew that the  prophet himself wished this (though he never said it in words).

So before we go painting a picture of how beautiful Islam is we should recognize these facts.

Islam is beautiful, racism has no place in islam, if some muslims are racists, then they are going beyond the boudaries of islam.

 A war has been going on for centuries against people of color. If you ask a Pale Arab the origin of Muhammad (pbuh) he will deny his true origin and say it does not matter just like a Christian does with Jesus. My question is if you are so true to the faith then why lie about its origin? Or for that matter the origin of those that are responsible for it?

Perhaps envy is the real culprit here and like it says in Suratul Faatihaa they wish to deceive.

Could you elaborate what is written in surah fatiha? I didnt quite get you here..

So let's really get our "Diyn," in order and not just the parts we feel comfortable with for a Muslim can also be a "Coverer of the Truth."

correction: not a muslim...a hypocrite is.



Posted By: Taalib19
Date Posted: 14 December 2006 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by amah

Originally posted by Taalib19

Jenni

A war has forever, been going on with the Pale Arabs vs. Dark skinned people of which the Prophit Muhammad himself was. His family was totally sought after and killed by these same professors of the faith.

Are you saying that the Prophet sallahu alayhi wassalaam was dark skinned??? Your reference?

 The first Khalifah Abu Bakr was chosen because of wealth and being a Pale Arab.

You are wrong.... he was chosen by the companions because they knew that the  prophet himself wished this (though he never said it in words).

So before we go painting a picture of how beautiful Islam is we should recognize these facts.

Islam is beautiful, racism has no place in islam, if some muslims are racists, then they are going beyond the boudaries of islam.

 A war has been going on for centuries against people of color. If you ask a Pale Arab the origin of Muhammad (pbuh) he will deny his true origin and say it does not matter just like a Christian does with Jesus. My question is if you are so true to the faith then why lie about its origin? Or for that matter the origin of those that are responsible for it?

Perhaps envy is the real culprit here and like it says in Suratul Faatihaa they wish to deceive.

Could you elaborate what is written in surah fatiha? I didnt quite get you here..

So let's really get our "Diyn," in order and not just the parts we feel comfortable with for a Muslim can also be a "Coverer of the Truth."

correction: not a muslim...a hypocrite is.



Yes, he was for he was a decendant of Adam who was made of the mud of the earth. Suratul Alaq. He was also from the tribe of the Quaraish who were decendants of Ishmael the Oldest son of Abraham by Abraham's second wife Hagar.

As far as the Khalifah... it was  to be Ali not Abu bakr. Ali was later killed while making prayer and his sons were also hunted down and killed. He did not say it in words because he did not wish it to be so. That is a Sunni muslim analogy. They (Sunni's) were later deceived by Musaylimat who was an enemy of the Prophet and  had proposed to the Prophet (pbuh) that they share the throne of Islam. Musaylimat later targeted the sahaaba of the Prophet who had committed the Quraan to memory to kill them and elininate Allahs message. This is why the Quraan was later compiled to save it from being destroyed.

Islam is our way of life and a religion to those who do not know its true history and those who wish to deceive. It was not something that the  Prophet  Muhammad (pbuh) started but decended from Abraham. That is why Muhammad (pbuh) is known as the "Seal," of the Prophets for Islam was in the beginning.
   Furthermore if Islam is so beautiful why not admit the true ethnicity of the Prophets. This topic always seems to be silenced, especially by Pale Arabs and Europeans alike. Do you deny that the current dispute between the Sunni and Shite goes back to who the true Khalifah of the Prophet (pbuh) was? Did not Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr despise Ali for he had questioned her honor to the Prophet when she returned from being lost in the desert accompanied back by another man? Was Abu Bakr not a Pale Arab and wealthy?


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 December 2006 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Taalib19

Originally posted by amah

Originally posted by Taalib19



A war has forever, been going on with the Pale Arabs vs. Dark skinned people of which the Prophit Muhammad himself was. His family was totally sought after and killed by these same professors of the faith.

Are you saying that the Prophet sallahu alayhi wassalaam was dark skinned??? Your reference?

 The first Khalifah Abu Bakr was chosen because of wealth and being a Pale Arab.

You are wrong.... he was chosen by the companions because they knew that the  prophet himself wished this (though he never said it in words).

So before we go painting a picture of how beautiful Islam is we should recognize these facts.

Islam is beautiful, racism has no place in islam, if some muslims are racists, then they are going beyond the boudaries of islam.

 A war has been going on for centuries against people of color. If you ask a Pale Arab the origin of Muhammad (pbuh) he will deny his true origin and say it does not matter just like a Christian does with Jesus. My question is if you are so true to the faith then why lie about its origin? Or for that matter the origin of those that are responsible for it?

Perhaps envy is the real culprit here and like it says in Suratul Faatihaa they wish to deceive.

Could you elaborate what is written in surah fatiha? I didnt quite get you here..

So let's really get our "Diyn," in order and not just the parts we feel comfortable with for a Muslim can also be a "Coverer of the Truth."

correction: not a muslim...a hypocrite is.



Taalib19===Yes, he was for he was a decendant of Adam who was made of the mud of the earth. Suratul Alaq. He was also from the tribe of the Quaraish who were decendants of Ishmael the Oldest son of Abraham by Abraham's second wife Hagar.
Signreader===You are Taalib not us, great discovery you would think
As far as the Khalifah... it was  to be Ali not Abu bakr. Ali was later killed while making prayer and his sons were also hunted down and killed.
You need to know that nobody will entertain this balderdash with Shiit polemics.
This happens to be a Sunni board.

 He did not say it in words because he did not wish it to be so. That is a Sunni muslim analogy.
You need to go back and learn how to communicate coherently.  You are making absolutely no sense!
They (Sunni's) were later deceived by Musaylimat
What is this Musaylimat stuff?
who was an enemy of the Prophet and  had proposed to the Prophet (pbuh) that they share the throne of Islam. Musaylimat later targeted the sahaaba of the Prophet who had committed the Quraan to memory to kill them and elininate Allahs message. This is why the Quraan was later compiled to save it from being destroyed.
What are you talking about?
Islam is our way of life and a religion to those who do not know its true history and those who wish to deceive. It was not something that the  Prophet  Muhammad (pbuh) started but decended from Abraham. That is why Muhammad (pbuh) is known as the "Seal," of the Prophets for Islam was in the beginning.
   Furthermore if Islam is so beautiful why not admit the true ethnicity of the Prophets.
This is such a moronic statement! What ethnicity of the Prophets has to do the beauty of Islam?
Allah says in Quran
49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
 This topic always seems to be silenced, especially by Pale Arabs and Europeans alike.
What are these pale Arabs you are hung up on?
Of course the Europeans in general don't want a religion like Islam and particularly coming in the family of Ishmaeli(read Paul's rantings in NT)

Do you deny that the current dispute between the Sunni and Shite goes back to who the true Khalifah of the Prophet (pbuh) was?
This argument just can't change the facts on the  ground by turning back the clock. We know who the true Khalifas  were, Shias who are still looking for the lost Imam few hundred years gone by

 Did not Aisha daughter of Abu Bakr despise Ali for he had questioned her honor to the Prophet when she returned from being lost in the desert accompanied back by another man?
Let me say simply this that the evil in the hearts of Shias will get them no where which is good by making such statements cuz
of the sign which Allah sent in Aisha's(r) honor
Al-Nour (The Light)

24:11 Those who brought forward the lie are a body among yourselves: think it not to be an evil to you; On the contrary it is good for you: to every man among them (will come the punishment) of the sin that he earned, and to him who took on himself the lead among them, will be a penalty grievous.

If you continue to harp on this incident, you will be getting your part of the punishment from Allah subhana, so do this at your own peril. If you are not under the influence of Shaitan you will see the truth in  Al-Nour and not live in Jahilia. 

Was Abu Bakr not a Pale Arab and wealthy?
Yes AbuBakr(r) was wealthy before Islam and he gave away all his wealth to The Prophet(p) for Islam, and what is this pale thing you are on?

You need help in your wandering but I am afraid this is not the right place!



-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 15 December 2006 at 9:45am

Assalaamu alaikum:

Yes there is prejudice amongst the Muslim Ummah:

I believe it is of cultural origin, not a product of Islam.

I am ignored at the American masjid because I have blue eyes and those who do not know me fear I am a "spy"

That is silly since I was originally born a Muslim even though unpracticing for many years!

The Ummah is the handiwork of Allah (swt), the All Knowing, the Wise.

It is as a quilt of many colors, textures, and varieties all blended into one.

Made one by the Creator, made imperfect by notions and ideas of the descendants of Adam.

We need to put aside our prejudices and preconceived notions about one another and serve Allah as one.

This does not mean hiding in fear because you feel that you may come to harm.

Sisters, go to a food kitchen that is near you and help them serve the holiday dinner to the poor homeless and downtrodden:

Do it in hijab.

I challenge the brothers to do it in a Kufi hat, tell the world, yes, we muslims are charitable, we care about others other than ourselves.

Maybe you brothers would then understand what it is like for the sisters who believe it is part of their deen to wear hijab and do it in spite of the persecution and prejudice.

Remember the person who in the civil rights movement refused to move to the back of the bus, the one who was as if a "shot was heard around the world"?

Rosa Parks. African American. A WOMAN.

She did it by example. Not by flowery prose and speeches. She did it by an action.

And became one of the most celebrated women in the history of the US.

We women at our masjid now have the right to gather behind the men in the prayer assembly because we stood up and said "no more' to locking us off in a stuffy room where we could not be seen.

It was Khadija, (may Allah be pleased with her) that proposed marriage to the Prophet (pbuh), and was his greatest support during the revealing of the Qur'an.

May Allah(swt) guide us in our deen, and may we do that which honors Him best!

 



-------------
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: fatima
Date Posted: 15 December 2006 at 2:57pm

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

No need to say sorry for your view about me, its just a view , Anyway i dint say there is no racism or prejudice in muslim ummah, i said problem is deeper than that. Brother this is symptoms of a problem not a problem itself. The problem is our straying away from ture path. Love in the heart of a mu'min for his Lord and His believing servants is due to blessing of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. That is for loving and caring and knowing everything for sake of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala. If we have not got that much of obedience of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala left in us, how we going to get a product of that love?

wassalam



-------------
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 15 December 2006 at 11:01pm

Assalaamualaikum,

Taalib19 I have moved your post:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7885 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7885

If you wish to discuss your "school of thought", please post there and not in this thread. Stick to the topic here.

Wassalaam



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 16 December 2006 at 4:24pm
Maryah, people think you're a py at your local masjid because you have blue eyes? HMMM that is unfortunate.



Print Page | Close Window