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Peace

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Introduction: Who am I?
Forum Discription: Introduce yourself here.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=718
Printed Date: 25 October 2014 at 2:35am


Topic: Peace
Posted By: bharatiya
Subject: Peace
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 4:58am

Asalam walaikum!!!

I am Kumar.  I am a Hindu from India.

With Love,

Kumar.



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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.



Replies:
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 5:53am
Salaam Bharatiya,

There are lot's of good people here. The longer I stay. the longer I feel
confident in my basic stand on humanity. That being - We are going to be
okay in the long run. Sane people out number the nutters a thousand to
one. Everywhere. Okay almost everywhere. Professional military and civil
police forces are about 100 to 1 which is hardly surprising but still pretty
good.

Enjoy.

Danny


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 6:24am

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Salaam Bharatiya,

There are lot's of good people here. The longer I stay. the longer I feel
confident in my basic stand on humanity. That being - We are going to be
okay in the long run. Sane people out number the nutters a thousand to
one. Everywhere. Okay almost everywhere. Professional military and civil
police forces are about 100 to 1 which is hardly surprising but still pretty
good.

Enjoy.

Danny

Thanx for the welcome Danny.



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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Fuhad
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 11:52am

Salaam To:Bharatiya

Welcome to the forum. I would encourage more people from Indian (Hind) subcontinent to initiate dialogue with muslims and help clarify misconceptions on both sides.

Well, I would consider myself to be a 'Hindu Muslim' from UK

Regards

Fuhad

 

 



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 8:02pm

Asalam walaikum Fuhad bhai!!!

Yes, you are right... If we have to live, we have to live together...

We are human beings first hindus or muslims next...

Khudha Hafiz.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 April 2005 at 11:53pm

Would there be much profit in this Hindu - Muslim dialogue in our world of grand saviours, Murdocks, Bushes and the Blairs?

The Hindus, Muslims and the lot of the sub-continent had not just a dialogue but a shared culture, life what have you for over 1080 years. Then walk in the Hang Low Sexnons in the guise of traders . . . and then shall we some day talk about the Mayo Plan - 1894?

Forget it. UNLESS you are willing to live beyond the conditioning set in by your Masters.



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 28 April 2005 at 1:59am
What are you talking about whisper?

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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Tasneem
Date Posted: 28 April 2005 at 10:20pm

Bharatiya

Welcome, to the Muslim-Hindu dialogue. How did you get interested in this forum?



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 28 April 2005 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by Tasneem

Bharatiya

Welcome, to the Muslim-Hindu dialogue. How did you get interested in this forum?



Asalam walaikum Tasneem!!

I have many Muslim friends.  But not all like India

Thats why I wanted to know the general Muslim view about India and I am really shocked to know that very few like India.

I feel 'hinduism', Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and Sikhism all to be great.  I also feel that certain religions are for certain people and there is no universal religion as such. 

If I am not fit to live, why would Khaaliq make me and why would Rabb sustain me?

The way of propagation of Christianity and Islam have to be reviewed.



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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Tasneem
Date Posted: 28 April 2005 at 11:34pm

Dear Bharatiya

First of all let me tell you that I love India. Just as each Muslim is different each Hindu is also different. There are many many good Hindus that I have met and known. So are there many good Christians and Muslims.

Now coming to religions I agree that there is good in every religion. I have not known any religion that teaches immorality, hatred or oppression. Now when we view any religion from the surface everything seems fine. However, when one delves into the depth of religion one finds the absurdities in the practicing of certain religions. The central theme of Islam is the belief in ONE God who is the Creator and Sustainer of the whole universe. He is Most compassionate and Merciful and sustains everyone of His creation. He also has guided mankind through revelations by sending messengers to every generation. All these messengers from Adam, Abraham, Jesus, Moses and many many more have brought to mankind the same message. That there is no god but GOD. But man has been fallible, he has always found the need to find something that he can see and feel which he has called god. The message that was brought by all the previous messengers has not remained in its original form and man has fallen into sin by associating different things with God. The last of these Messengers is Mohammed (PBUH) who has once more brought to us the true message and those who follow him are called Muslims and the religion is Islam. We believe in the oneness of GOD and follow the guidance that we received from His messenger Mohammed (PBUH). Muslims believe in the life hereafter, that after this temporary life of ours we are one day going to face our Creator. That is why we worship Him and Him alone and after this knowledge has come to us we cannot turn to any dieties calling them god. Please feel free to write and clarify whatever you wish to ask. I shall try to respond God Willing.

 



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 29 April 2005 at 12:48am
Salam Tasneem!

Love is what love does.

What do you mean by 'good' Hindus, Christians and Muslims?  If you are an Indian Muslim, you know the truth how good Indian Muslims are.

Unlike our neighbours, we allowed Muslims to stay in India.  India has the second largest Muslim population.  It has had its Presidents from the minorities.  Here, people say that Muslims are their brothers.  Here the Muslims are allowed to follow their own law.  Here people worship Muslim actors and cricketers as gods, give subsidies for Haj, repair Mosques at the government's cost.

And what they give in return?  Support to ISI, degrade traditional Indian culture, show the world that India is communalist state.

"However, when one delves into the depth of religion one finds the absurdities in practicing of certain religions."


What are those 'certain' religions?

How can you say that Muhammad is the last of the Messengers?

...dieties calling them god.


I can understand that you are talking about 'hinduism'.  But what you people dont know is, the present people in India are following the rituals and not what is written in their holy books.  This is because most of them are blind believers and which made the so called 'brahmins' to subjugate the so called 'untouchables'.

You still show off your typical Muslim thinking.
I have told you, if those 'certain' religions were not fit for survival, why would Khaaliq would have made them?

'hinduism' has been here since times immemorial.  It first survived the  the Muslim onslaught(who ethnically cleansed the Kashmiri 'hindus'), then the Christian onslaught(who in the guise of missionaries, did all the dirty things).
Don't you think Rabb wants 'hinduism' to survive?


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Tasneem
Date Posted: 29 April 2005 at 5:16am

Salaam Bharathi

You have discussed two different issues and I shall deal with each of them separately.

Firstly, the "good Hindus" I refer to are those who hold no grudge against the Muslims or Christians on account of their religion and treat them as human beings worthy of friendship. I would'nt call the RSS and those who support "Hinduvata" as "good Hindus". Their main agenda is to make India a complete Hindu state and the BJP government had its roots from the RSS. Advani and Vajpai may distance themselves in order to save their positions but they are very old RSS recruits. Muslims have lived in India for centuries and despite India being a Secular state, Muslims have also suffered at the hands of extremist Hindus and to sight a few recent cases I would remind you of the Babri Masjid riots and the Gujarat riots were Muslims bore the major brunt of the majority Hindus. Yes India had Muslim presidents and Muslims also have made a contribution to India in many ways. Having said that I cannot say that all Muslims are good or all Hindus are good. For one thing I do not think that Hindus can claim that they are doing a favour to the Muslims if they are paid to repair Mosques or subsidised to go to Haj. Every citizen irrespective of their religion has his/her rights and the Constitution of India guarantees that. There is no point in prolonging the discussion on this issue as neither side is perfect, each side has its own faults and we are not here to claim who is right.

Coming to the next issue that you have discussed in your post which refers to religion, I can explain to you the Islamic point of view. It is true that the "certain religion" that I have referred to includes Hinduism. From my understanding of Hinduism, Hindus worship Idols. Am I right? Hindus have many dieties? This completely negates the oneness of God that Islam professess. In Islam we do not give any shape or form to God and neither was He begotten nor does He beget. Our Mosques are bare four walls. Muslims can pray anywhere. In fact I have prayed in a Gurdwara and a Church, but ofcourse my namaz, but not in front of any statue or picture. If according to your holy books their is only One God and if you believe and practise that, then you are no different from us. When I try to explain to you, you say I am "showing off my typical Muslim thinking"! But every Hindu home I have visited there is a picture of either Ganesha or Durga or Venkateshwara or Hanuman or umpteen others! After all this how can you say that you believe in One God?

You have asked how I can say that Mohammed (PBUH) is the last messenger. I say this because this is what God has said in the Quran. The Quran is the word of God. Mohammed(PBUH) was completely illiterate. God revealed His word to the Prophet Mohammed through the angel Gabreil or Jibreel as we call him. Even highly educated Hindus who have read the Quran have said that this is no work of a man. It is the most extraordinary of books and man cannot produce even one verse like it. A true believer believes every word of the Quran and I do not question the fact that Mohammed (PBUH) is the last prophet. The Quran was revealed in Arabic as the Prophet was an Arab, but thanks to the works of a great many scholars who have translated it into many languages. There are many transalations availabe in English and if you wish to read any I can recommend to you some good translaters that you can read online.

Yes, it is true that Hinduism has existed since time immemorial, that is if my understanding of Hinduism is Idol worship. It is for this reason that so many messengers came down to correct man in the error that he was falling into. Why the prophet Abraham's father used to make statues of Idols for worship! Unfortunately, he died an idol worshipper despite his son pleading with him to follow the right path. But he would not give up saying that he would follow what his fathers followed. As I explained in my last post God is compassionate and sustains everyone of His creation. But we also have to obey HIm and follow His Commands as ultimately we will all stand before Him on the day of judgement and we will receive our rewards first according to our belief and then according to our actions. God has also told the believers not to compel anyone into Islam and to say to you your religion and to me mine.



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 30 April 2005 at 12:35am

Asalam walaikum!

Yes, we shall keep politics aside(I still want to discuss Indian politics and will do it later in the post).

About religion, I have told you, most 'hindus' believe blindly.  And you yourself have said 'dieties'.  Yes, they are dieties and not 'god'.  I suppose you are an Indian and you would have known what Vedas and Upanishads are.  Only a few 'hindus' really follow those.  Most of them follow only the rituals prescribed in them.  They just pronounce the mantras given in them without knowing what they mean.

And as I have explained in one of my posts which can be found http://http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=750 - here , we believe in Brahman as ultimate 'god'.  Allah = Brahman.(beware, its not Brahma or Brahmin, Brahma = Khaaliq, Brahmin = priest)

The philosophy of Upanishads is Advaita, which was first clearly explained by Adi Shankara.  If you want you can read a short http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0337/authors/shankara.html - biography .  You can also find the Philosophy there.  You can clearly see that Shankara was a so called 'dravidian' whom the so called 'aryans' invaded some millenia ago.  And all those so called 'dieties' praise Brahman, and of course they praise each other.  Love for a diety can be likened to love for a family, friend etc.

'hindu' holy book Bagavad Gita is a condensation of the Upanishads.  Krishna has explained the Upanishads in a condensed form to Arjuna.  But not all 'hindus' understand Bagavad Gita, because it is written in Sanskrit and the translations are not that perfect.  Thats why, Swami Vivekananda has said that it was Islam which took the Truth to the masses.  The effort was made in the 19th century to take 'hinduism' to the masses.  But because of the so called 'secularists' the goal was not accomplished.  Those so called 'secularists', the saviours of 'secularism' in India, still exist.

Well it is your belief that 'god' has said in Quran.  And I am no one to deny your belief.  You feel Quran to be sacred because it was 'said' by 'god'.  We feel Bagavad Gita to be sacred because it was said by a 'man'.

I have already read Quran, and I had been telling that Quran is a great book and Islam is a great religion.  But I find no difference between Quran and Bagavad Gita, except that Quran was 'said' by 'god' and Bagavad Gita was said by 'man'.  There is a different reason for idol worship which has been misunderstood and that misunderstanding has become a reality.

Let me ask you one question, would you spit on your photograph?  This is the same with idol worship.  If Brahman(Allah) is everywhere and everything and at everytime, whats wrong with worshipping an idol which is also Brahman?

Let me tell you some facts,

1. Sanskrit is a language, it does not belong to any religion.

2. Not all follow the 'caste' system.  'caste' system is misunderstood.

3. Yes, RSS, VHP and Shiv Sena support 'hindutva'.  But not all of BJP supports 'hindutva'.  There are many scholars like Arun Shouri etc.  BJP has Muslim members.

4. Babri demolition has to be condemned.  But Godhra was the aftermath of killing of innocents.

5. 'Vande Mataram' was not made the National Anthem because Muslims said that they dont bow to anyone or anything except Allah.

6. Sanskrit was not made the National Language because Muslims considered it pro-hindu.

7. There was no invasion of the so called 'Aryans'.

8. 'hindus' have never, in thier thousands of years of history, waged a war to conquer territories.

9. India was never a Muslim majority country, but still it was made secular.

10. According to the report published by UNESCO, out of 128 countries where the Jews lived up to 1948, in only one -- India -- were they not persecuted.  Just see what an Israel newspaper says,"India's Jewish communities are a source of inspiration for Aliyah activists who admire the fact that the entire community picked up and moved to Israel by choice, rather than as a result of anti-Semitism or persecution, which was virtually non-existent in India."  The full report is http://http://israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=77994 - here .

Who said that the agenda of the RSS and the BJP is to make India a 'hindu' nation?

First of all, why didn't Muslims leave India when they were given ample land?  Why were the 'hindus' driven out of their homes and had to come to India?

On what basis, Shahi Imam of Jama Masjid want another partition?

Why did you people oppose to the removal of Aryan invasion theory from the history textbooks?

Please can you tell me what you people have suffered in the hands of 'extremist' 'hindus'?  What about the lakhs of Kashmiri Pandits who are living a meagre life in refugee camps?

What about the support you give to the Pakistani ISI?  What about your celebrations when India loses in the hands of Pakistan?

I believe you should be a Hyderabadi.  I am a Hyderabadi, and two-thirds of the Muslims I meet are anti-indian.  When I was in school, my friend was beaten up because he supported India during a cricket match.  And if anything is done by us, we are said to be extremists.  My mother is a school teacher where most of the students are Muslim.  Her colleagues used to cry because of their behaviour.

This all shows that the enemy is within.

If you do bad, good will not follow.

"Jihad is of the Muslims, but the world is not Muslim."



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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Tasneem
Date Posted: 30 April 2005 at 4:47am

From the very beginning you fall into the fallacy that India is a "Hindu" country. In an earlier quote you say that you "allowed Muslims to stay in India". How does India become a Hindu country? The country belongs to people who were born and brought up in that country. According to archaelogical findings the Mohan jedaro and Harapa civilisations were older than Hinduism but they were not Hindus. So some religion cannot claim the ownership of any land anywhere. The land belongs to its citizens who can be either Hindu or Muslims or Christians or Jews. So one citizen cannot claim superiority over other citizens, unless they are rogues who lack decency and justice. 

Even in the British Parliament there are Indian Parliamentarians. Does it mean they should be kicked out? In Iraq Saddam's deputy was Tariq Aziz who was Christian born in Iraq. So birth and citizenship takes over all claims of ownership in any land. You speak as if Hindus are favouring Muslims by "allowing" them to live in India. This is how "Hinduvata" expresses itself unreasonably, unjustly like thugs! For your kind information in the India/Pakistan wars all the heroic work was done by the Muslims (like Hawaldar Hamid, Brigadier Usman) and Sikhs and we hardly hear of any Hindu heros.Also, for your kind information every Indian Muslim I know defends India so vehemently and this is especially so before the Pakistanis.

When India gained independence there were two states or provinces that the British did not finalise one was the Nizam's state of Hyderabad and the other is Kashmir. The Nizam though a Muslm ruler had a Hindu majority state on the other hand Kashmir had a Hindu ruler with Muslim majority state. When Hyderabad the Nizam state was forcefully annexed by the Indian government one would expect that Kashmir would go to Pakistan which is yet to happen. That is the reason why the Kashmiri Hindus are facing the problem because the Indian government did not make the right decision. But we do not support the oppression of any innocent people. It is nothing to do with Hindu/Muslim division, it is purely political and geographical.

You visit Mysore that was ruled by a Muslim ruler Tippu Sultan, and to your amazement every temple and every stone of a temple is intact despite being ruled by a Muslim ruler. Because Muslim rulers both in Hyderabad and Mysore believed in justice without supporting any religion. So do not mix politics with religion,. If the Indan government is fair they will make the right decision on Kashmir. At the time of Indepedence the subcontinent had 40% Muslim population and your slogan that vast land was given to Muslims doesn't hold water. Because if you add up Bangla desh and Pakistan it is not 40% of the old subcontinent. India gave 15% of the land for 40% percent of the population and that is why Bangla desh is the most densely populated per km area. India did not share any of its gold reserves and these countries had to depend on the generosity of donors from their own population. India retained their share of wealth in a way it was stolen from them.  I cannot understand your complaint about Aryans in history. You cannot alter history now because history is what has already happened and should remain factual. Last month a Hindu mob burnt and demolished a very old library in Pune because history was not written to appease them and in doing so they have also destroyed your sacred books like Upanishads written on leaves and now you are left with only RSS history who are responsible for assassinating Mahatma Gandhi the father of the nation! Seems like you would like to change even this fact. (Now, you might say that Mahatma Gandhi was never assassinated and that he died of old age!) Inspite of all this I do not want to dwell on the issue about who owns the country any longer. All this is politics and nothing to do with religion.

 'hindus' have never, in thier thousands of years of history, waged a war to conquer territories

This is a quote from Dr Abdul Kalam. a Muslim President of India who actually said India has never...... conquer territories" You are replacing the word "India" by "Hindus". You people are so unjust and corrupt because of which you have a Sikh Prime Minister and a Muslim President, otherwise a foreigner would have been your Prime Minister.

Now coming to religion, there are no similarities between Islam and Hinduism because you state that "Brahman" is the ultimate "god". Your use of the word ultimate shows that there are many many more before the ultimate "god". In Islam there is no "god" but the only ONE GOD.

You state "Let me ask you one question, would you spit on your photograph?  This is the same with idol worship.  If Brahman(Allah) is everywhere and everything and at everytime, whats wrong with worshipping an idol which is also Brahman?"

The answer is yes I would spit at my own photograph. Why? Because we are nothing before God who is the creator and the sustainer. We all produce in our bodies nothing but filth and God is free from all this. God is pure and cannot be likened to anything or anyone as everything has been created by Him and everything is at HIS service.  An idol is even less than a human being because it was created by this worthless human being. It is nothing but mocking God. I do not believe you have read the Quran, leave alone understanding it. The idols you worship are helpless themselves, how can they help you? They crack and break when they fall to the ground, they need your help to move around, they do not eat the fruits that you offer, so one lowers onself by worshipping such things. Historically Gautam Budha saw a light, and people started worshipping him rather than the light. That is Hinduism.



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 30 April 2005 at 9:33am
My Dearest fellow Indian Tasneem,

I have already told you that 'hindus' never wanted you out.  We call you brothers.  And I have already told you that you are as much an Indian as any other.  I dont have any grudge towards you nor towards your religion.

Please do not misunderstand me buddy.

Originally posted by Tasneem

From the very beginning you fall into the fallacy that India is a "Hindu" country.

I never said India was 'hindu'.  Well 'hindu' itself is relatively younger word and its not an 'Indian' word(thats why I hate Vishwa 'hindu' Parishad).  The actual name proposed for 'hinduism' was Sanatana Dharma.

Please try to understand me.  Atleast consider me as a fellow Indian.  Forget about my religion.

What I say holds good for both of us.  Afterall, you are an Indian.

We(Indians) have a very wonderful history which has been distorted by the Westerners, the pseudo-secularists and our own Marxists. 
If you read the history of Pakistan or any other country, they write it in order to suit them.  For example, Pakistanis say some 'hindu' king was a rogue and gave asylum to pirates.  Thats why Muslims attacked Bharat.  We have a different version of the same.  Our version says that, that 'hindu' king did not give any asylum and it was just a silly reason to attack Bharat.

But believe me buddy(listen to me atleast as a fellow Indian), we have a really really wonderful history.  According to the Bible, humanity started around 4000 BC.  So the Western historians had to cramp all of the Indian history into those 4000 years.  According to 'hindu' calendar (recently we Telugus celebrated our New Year day, which is also according to 'hindu' calendar), this is the year 5206.  And it is to be noted that this is the 52nd century of the Kali Yuga, the last Yuga in the cycle.  A next cycle will start with the end of this Yuga.  Krishna died at the end of Treta Yuga, i.e., at the begining of this Yuga.  Krishna lived for around 125 years.  Mahabharata happened when Krishna was 89 years of age.  So you can see that Mahabharata happened 52 centuries ago.  Ramayana is much more older.  It was the descendent of Pandavas(Krishna's cousins), Bharata, after which our country is named.  Bharata was the first to unify the whole of 'india'.  After him our country was named as Bharata Varsha.

And if the so called 'caste' system existed, then Bagavadh Gita were the sayings of a 'shudra'.  Krishna used to look after cattle.

The Vedas and the Upanishads are older than Ramayana or any other scripture.  But they were passed by word of mouth.

You all Muslims may feel this all to be rubbish.  That does not matter.  Even our so called 'secularists' say that this is all rubbish.

You may not bother about this.  But it is the history of 'India'.  Ramayana and Mahabharata are no 'hindu' scriptures.  They are chronicles of history.

Unfortunately(or may be fortunately), past becomes history, history becomes legend and legend becomes myth.

In an earlier quote you say that you "allowed Muslims to stay in India".

When did I say this?

How does India become a Hindu country?

I never said this.  What I said was 'hindu' majority country. 

The country belongs to people who were born and brought up in that country.

You are right.  A country also belongs to the people who adopted it.

According to archaelogical findings the Mohan jedaro and Harapa civilisations were older than Hinduism but they were not Hindus.

Can you prove this?  I have already briefed up with our(Indian)  history.   The Aryan invasion theory was a farce.  Even Max Mueller who proposed the theory said that he did not mean any invasion.  The  problem  is past becomes history, history becomes legend and legend becomes a myth.

So some religion cannot claim the ownership of any land anywhere. The land belongs to its citizens who can be either Hindu or Muslims or Christians or Jews. So one citizen cannot claim superiority over other citizens, unless they are rogues who lack decency and justice.

You are damn right.

Even in the British Parliament there are Indian Parliamentarians. Does it mean they should be kicked out? In Iraq Saddam's deputy was Tariq Aziz who was Christian born in Iraq. So birth and citizenship takes over all claims of ownership in any land.

Yes there are.  India is not the only secular country in the world.  Even Turkey, Israel are secular.

You speak as if Hindus are favouring Muslims by "allowing" them to live in India. This is how "Hinduvata" expresses itself unreasonably, unjustly like thugs!

As I have already said that 'hindutva' does not exist.

For your kind information in the India/Pakistan wars all the heroic work was done by the Muslims (like Hawaldar Hamid, Brigadier Usman) and Sikhs and we hardly hear of any Hindu heros.

Well, they are not dying for another's country.  They are dying for their motherland.

When India gained independence there were two states or provinces that the British did not finalise one was the Nizam's state of Hyderabad and the other is Kashmir. The Nizam though a Muslm ruler had a Hindu majority state on the other hand Kashmir had a Hindu ruler with Muslim majority state. When Hyderabad the Nizam state was forcefully annexed by the Indian government one would expect that Kashmir would go to Pakistan which is yet to happen. That is the reason why the Kashmiri Hindus are facing the problem because the Indian government did not make the right decision. But we do not support the oppression of any innocent people. It is nothing to do with Hindu/Muslim division, it is purely political and geographical.

In one of my post in another forum, I have supported Nizam's decision.  I still regret about what Nehru did.

You visit Mysore that was ruled by a Muslim ruler Tippu Sultan, and to your amazement every temple and every stone of a temple is intact despite being ruled by a Muslim ruler. Because Muslim rulers both in Hyderabad and Mysore believed in justice without supporting any religion.

Did I say Muslims to be maniacs?  I never was anti-Muslim.  I was anti-somebody, but never was anti-Muslim.

At the time of Indepedence the subcontinent had 40% Muslim population and your slogan that vast land was given to Muslims doesn't hold water. Because if you add up Bangla desh and Pakistan it is not 40% of the old subcontinent. India gave 15% of the land for 40% percent of the population and that is why Bangla desh is the most densely populated per km area.

Ok, I am with you.

India did not share any of its gold reserves and these countries had to depend on the generosity of donors from their own population.

But India gave a lot of money for Pakistan's reconstruction(I dont know the amount, but it did had to pay at the time of partition).

India retained their share of wealth in a way it was stolen from them.

I didn't understand.  'Stolen'?

I cannot understand your complaint about Aryans in history. You cannot alter history now because history is what has already happened and should remain factual.

I think my explanation is enough.

Last month a Hindu mob burnt and demolished a very old library in Pune because history was not written to appease them and in doing so they have also destroyed your sacred books like Upanishads written on leaves

I didn't hear about this.  But if it happened, it is because of the chauvinists who have no work.  LOL.

... and now you are left with only RSS history who are responsible for assassinating Mahatma Gandhi the father of the nation!

In one of my posts, I even discussed this, and in this very post I have told about RSS being chauvinistic.

Seems like you would like to change even this fact. (Now, you might say that Mahatma Gandhi was never assassinated and that he died of old age!)

What historical 'fact' did I change or tried to change?

Inspite of all this I do not want to dwell on the issue about who owns the country any longer. All this is politics and nothing to do with religion.

Ok, well.  Here ends the discussion about politics(I have a question at the end of this post).

'hindus' have never, in thier thousands of years of history, waged a war to conquer territories

This is a quote from Dr Abdul Kalam. a Muslim President of India who actually said India has never...... conquer territories" You are replacing the word "India" by "Hindus".


Actually it was said by Swami Vivekananda.

You people are so unjust and corrupt because of which you have a Sikh Prime Minister and a Muslim President, otherwise a foreigner would have been your Prime Minister.

I totally agree with that.  Did you read, "Wonder that was India and horror that is India" by Francois Gautier?  He rightly condemns us Indians.

Now coming to religion, there are no similarities between Islam and Hinduism because you state that "Brahman" is the ultimate "god". Your use of the word ultimate shows that there are many many more  before the ultimate "god".

Didn't you see, I quoted it.  I said 'god' and not God.  There is a difference between english word 'god' and Brahman.  The whole of  Upanishads discuss about Brahman.  Even the Advaita Vedanta i.e., Advaita Philosophy deals about Brahman. 

In Islam there is no "god" but the only ONE GOD.

I know it.  In 'hinduism' there is no temple for Brahman, because It has no form.  What we call Vishnu, Brahma etc are synonymous to Rabb, Khaaliq etc.

You state "Let me ask you one question, would you spit on your photograph?  This is the same with idol worship.  If Brahman(Allah) is everywhere and everything and at everytime, whats wrong with worshipping an idol which is also Brahman?"

The answer is yes I would spit at my own photograph. Why? Because we are nothing before God who is the creator and the sustainer.


So generous of you.

We all produce in our bodies nothing but filth and God is free from all this. God is pure and cannot be likened to anything or anyone as everything has been created by Him and everything is at HIS service.  An idol is even less than a human being because it was created by this worthless human being. It is nothing but mocking God. I do not believe you have read the Quran, leave alone understanding it. The idols you worship are helpless themselves, how can they help you? They crack and break when they fall to the ground, they need your help to move around, they do not eat the fruits that you offer, so one lowers onself by worshipping such things.

Yes, this may be the difference between 'hinduism' and Islam.  'hinduism' considers everyone and everything to be Brahman or rather manifestation of Brahman. 

Historically Gautam Budha saw a light, and people started worshipping him rather than the light. That is Hinduism.

Whatever you may think... If you think 'hinduism' is a farce, let it be.  It does not matter to Muslims anyway.

Can you tell me how many times and how you were discriminated 'religiously' in India?




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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 30 April 2005 at 11:19am

Probably your Introductions have become to long to fit in this forum.

Please move the discussion to an appropriate forum.

Peace.



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 30 April 2005 at 8:19pm
Sister Nausheen,

Please move this discussion to the appropriate forum.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 01 May 2005 at 12:23am

Originally posted by bharatiya

Sister Nausheen,

Please move this discussion to the appropriate forum.

 Baharatiya;in islamicity, everybody moves his topic with his own hands;all u can do is calling a group of pack mules and putting all these long words to their backs...then moving to an another forum...we can't seek hard works from the moderators...Wa Salaam...  



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Posted By: Sanjiv
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 8:31am

Interesting views you have Bharatiya would like to hear more as I share similar views like seeing and analysing before believing, rather than other way around.

Brother Sanjiv.

 




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