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Circumcision prevents AIDS

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Science & Technology
Forum Discription: It is devoted for Science & Technology
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=707
Printed Date: 25 October 2014 at 11:02pm


Topic: Circumcision prevents AIDS
Posted By: ZamanH
Subject: Circumcision prevents AIDS
Date Posted: 25 April 2005 at 10:39am
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March 26 2000 BRITAIN
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Circumcision hailed as way to curb Aids

Bryan Appleyard


NEW evidence suggests that circumcision of all male babies could help to halt the global Aids epidemic. With 50m living cases and more than 16m deaths, the disease is now the worst human health disaster since the Black Death.

The thesis - laid out in a scientific paper to be published soon - seems likely to create huge controversy as it represents a complete change in accepted ideas about the transmission of Aids.

One of the paper's authors, Roger Short, professor of obstetrics at Melbourne University and a respected scientist with long experience of Aids-ravaged areas, has been told he cannot address the subject at a forthcoming international conference.

Short and his co-author, Dr Robert Szabo, are convinced that a high level of receptors - sites to which invading organisms attach themselves - on the inside of the foreskin make it responsible for transmission.

Short and Szabo noted a sharp difference in the prevalence of HIV infection in the "Aids belt" countries in sub-Saharan Africa. In some areas the infection rates are as high as 25%, in others as low as 1%. The lower infection rates were clearly associated with the practice of male circumcision.

"The presence of an intact foreskin," says the Short-Szabo paper, "has consistently been shown to be the single most significant factor associated with the much higher prevalence of HIV in countries of the Aids belt."

The link is stronger than with more familiar indicators such as promiscuity, other sexually transmitted diseases and multiple marriage.

Even more startling evidence came from a recent study in Uganda, reported in February. This showed that among a large group of "discordant couples" - where one is infected and one not - no circumcised males became infected over 30 months, even though their wives were HIV-positive. Short describes these results as "staggeringly significant".

Outside Africa there is the same pattern. Countries with low circumcision rates, such as Thailand, India and Cambodia, have between 10 and 50 times the rates of infection compared with countries with high circumcision rates, such as the Philippines, Bangladesh and Indonesia.

Once they get ethical clearance in Australia, Short and Szabo intend to test their conclusions by applying live HIV virus to newly removed foreskins to check its rate of uptake. They could have definite results within weeks.

If experimentally confirmed, the implications are radical. Short and Szabo believe that about 80% of male HIV infections in the world happen through the foreskin.

Short is not advocating adult circumcision, a painful and potentially dangerous operation. But future generations could be saved if mass circumcision began now.

Short believes his findings should be spread globally, as rapidly as possible. "There has been insufficient focus on prevention," he said, "and too much emphasis on the search for a vaccine." Despite the billions poured into research, there is still no sign of an Aids vaccine.

The crisis in sub-Saharan Africa - where life expectancy rates at birth as a result of Aids have dropped from 59 to 44 - is out of control.

"The whole of my life's prejudice has been anti-circumcision," said Short. "I've written papers against it. I didn't believe the benefits outweighed the costs. If God had made us the way we were, why remove a sound organ? But I have been totally converted."



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet



Replies:
Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 8:33pm

Not approaching zina prevents AIDS, too.

 



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MOCKBA


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 11:22pm

Ummmmm you can get aids by sharing needles too. Also, more women than men get it........think here of the obvious differences. Also, children get it. So, this theory is for who? About who?

 

So, circumcision is the way to stop the global epidemic? *Gets a sharp surgical instrument*

Lameese



Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:41am

I'm not dismissing the findings in the article but sex isn't the only way of getting the virus, as lameese mentioned there are the sharing of needles/accidently stepping on a used needle & there are blood transfusions.

lameese, children get it because it is passed down thru the mother if she has it, and if its not by any other means.



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 12:16pm

So, circumcision is the way to stop the global epidemic? *Gets a sharp surgical instrument*

Lameese

I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam.



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 5:17am

Zaman bhai, if you wanted to demonstrate just that it would have been much easier to quote how perfectly the Quran describes the solar system. And, at a time when the whole world was actually just "flat".

And, please, don't worry about that "sharp surgical instrument". I am sure, Lameese should be allowed to try it at whatever late stage!



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 5:29pm

Point being, circumcision does not prevent AIDS and even if it did there are other ways to contract AIDS without even using circumsicion. Such as open wounds and touching blood of AIDS patients or sharing needles. If circumsicion argument in the case of not contracting AIDs is used then perhaps its a week one because of the fact that it is generally noted that AIDs is listed as a sexually transmitted disease. I believe the article is interesting but the findings are not that great. The miracle in this in relation to Islam is that Allah commands believers to be with their respective partners and to love them and cherish them (which encompasses everything including their bodies e.g knowing you can trust them sexually).



Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by ZamanH

I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam.

Besides, Israelites practiced it for over 2000 years before Islam.



Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 16 July 2005 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Deus

Originally posted by ZamanH

I don't know. My post was about demonstrating the miraculous nature of teachings of Islam.

Besides, Israelites practiced it for over 2000 years before Islam.

then, MUslim not picking up the unheigynic habits of the Jews and adopting other healthy habits (which were not Jewish) such as pohibition of drinking of wine and smoking, should be seen as a miracle, too.



-------------
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 16 July 2005 at 11:02pm

Point being, circumcision does not prevent AIDS

No, it does and and that has been established through numerous vast surveys taken. Though, it might not be used as a means to prevent AIDS.



-------------
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 17 July 2005 at 1:57pm

Zaman let us use simple logic here:

AIDS is contracted a) sexually b) sharing needles c) contact with blood with an open wound

Now let us say that a man gets circumcised at birth and he gets a cut as an adult. Let us then add that he accidentally touch a sample of blood at a hospital (perhaps doing lab work). The blood that he touched is an AIDs patient. He can still contract AIDS even if he is circumcised and even if he never had sexual contact with anyone ( be it male or female). Simple as that. The argumentand/or survey is weak because it is not enough demonstrative proofs.

I work at a hospital and I know (not from experience nor through empirical contact) that may circumcised patients have HIV not AIDS but HIV AIDS is the latter form of HIV. The only way to prevent both is two things: Abstionence and using condoms or forms of contraceptives. If circumsicion prevents that type of STD then condoms would not be widely endorsed. So Zaman I don't think posting that article benefits anyone. If you ask me its an endorsement of sexual intercourse with a dirty person be it Muslim or non-Muslim.



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 17 July 2005 at 2:00pm
Zaman, another thing if you truly believe in what the article presents then do a personal demonstration. Love and marry a Muslim woman who has the virus, have intercourse with her then tell us your results (assuming you are circumcised of course). I'm not trying to be funny here but I highly doubt you even believe in that article.


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 18 July 2005 at 9:08am

There was a misunderstanding from my side. I thought prevention means restriction or curtailment and not eradication. My point was circumcision restricts the AIDS epidemic to some extent.



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 2:02pm
I hate to break your illusions. Not only did the jews do it. Seceral societys all over the world have practiced this. And common for them all was that they practiced the worship of sex, the ritual itself and the divine suggestions of creation in the act and the woman giving birth. In reality it served 2 purposes...

1.The youngsters became sexually active earlyer
2.It makes it possible to reach the climatic sensation very fast. Im not talking about the actual ejaculation, but the sesation right before it. with proper training you can keep that feeling for a very long time, and having no forskin makes it easyer.

If you belive there is anything holy to that tradition, fine, thats your problem. But i know, and understand where it came from, and take it for what it is.

Does it help prevent aids? It properbly does, as there are as mentioned very small cuts inside the foreskin. But on the other hand, so does removing all the plumbing (prevent aids) or as suggested, the real miracle...our law. No zina, no problem. Alhamdulilah our Rabb makes sense as always, in his great scripture..

i do not see any miracles here brother, im sorry.

Peace
Noah


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 1:51am
Originally posted by Noah

In reality it served 2 purposes...

1.The youngsters became sexually active earlyer
2.It makes it possible to reach the climatic sensation very fast. Im not talking about the actual ejaculation, but the sesation right before it. with proper training you can keep that feeling for a very long time, and having no forskin makes it easyer.



What is the source of your information??


-------------
An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 4:33am
Wich one of them brother. Just go to any good library, find all the reffernce works that you can on theology, where it came from, its symbols, and start reading. You are asking me if there is a book where its all in. No there isnt ,likewise, can you point me to a book that explains everything i need to know about physics?

It is the result of years of work with theology, the occult and esoteric knowledge.

You can belive it if you like to. and you can chose not to. Whatever suits your best brother :)

Peace
Noah


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:03am

Zaman said:

I thought prevention means restriction or curtailment

It does mean that, but the argument concerning circumcision preventing AIDS is flawed. Number one when you contract AIDS it is the last stage. What you do however contract is HIV first, that you cannot prevent even if circumcision happen as a small child. The reason being is when you get sick like a flu or cold. What your cells do as the first line of defense is your body sends your white cells (I forgot the name as biology was completed some years ago) to "photocopy" the make up of the virus which the "picture" of the virus is thus transmitted to the T-cells so they can identify the virus in the body. Once identified your T-cells attack the virus and destroy it evntually. As your body destroys the virus your body constantly makes killer T-cells so the eradication of the Virus is complete. Now with the HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) this virus not only keeps white cells from photo copying the virus (it in fact attacks these cells and implants their DNA so they can replicate themselves) and destroys the T-cells in the body for a lower count.

Once HIV is contracted you do not die from it, you die from the stuff your body could originally fight such as colds and flus.  To answer your question circumcision does not prevent HIV because 1) the body has no immunity for the virus in the first place 2) It can still be contracted any other way. So as Noah mentions there is no miracle here. I not spitting this out of my butt cheek because right now I work at a hospital here in California. I won't say what my job is but we deal with HIV/AIDS patients all the time. If you wish I can slo post a doctors opinion on how HIV is contracted sexually and I would more than happy ask a doctor from my hospital regarding your argument from the article you posted.

But brother if I may ask with sincerity if you truly believe in what the article presents then I sincerely ask you to test this truht yourself. Now you can do one or two things:

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

or

2) If there is some slight doubt in your mind, not only is the article flawed but it gives you lack of confidence in it. Thus the only safe way to prevention of HIV/AIDS is abstinence or contraception not circumcision. BTW circumcision does not restrict HIV/AIDS to some extent it does nothing to no extent. Again test your articles hypothesis yourself. I'm not asking you to kill yourself I believe your an intelligent person, and enough intelligent to know that HIV/AIDS cannot be prevented by the body, yet. Yes the HIV virus is fragile and can die in air, drying of blood, alcohol, bleach or any other household products, but once inside the blood it is an enemy to the body's life system. Brother there is no prvention from the body yet and to propogate that article is like propogating how tall God is.

 



Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 1:00am

1) Marry and love somone with the HIV virus and thus have intercourse with them knowing that the article is true

Why would I marry a HIV positive person, if I don't want to get AIDS?? As I had said earlier, it reduces the possibility of one's contracting AIDS (due to intercourse with a HIV positive person) but it does not eliminates it. And I considered it a miracle that Islamic practices have medical significance even though, 1400 years back much wasn't known about AIDS.

I am not discouraging the use of condoms among people of the populations/communitites where AIDS is prevalent. Of course, it checks AIDS epidemic better. My point was circumcision also checks AIDS epidemic and http://www.circlist.com/considering/medicalben.html#aidscurb - has other medical benefits .



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 6:13am
Zaman I dont doubt your findings as significant and sincere but now you have used two words so far which run contrary. First you used the word "prevent" then said "reduced." Now that you mention reduced I can understand where you are coming from but again I have to read over the article to find how this reduces the contraction of AIDs but I will look over your article again.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 6:10pm

Salaam,

Brother Zaman I have an update on your findings as I asked a friend who works in the medical clinic at my hospital. One of the things I asked her ( as I already knew myself but for the sake of this forum I still asked the question) does circumcision reduce the risk and/prevent HIV?

Answer: No. There are some actual researchers which there is a presupposition to where circumcision may reduce the risk or even prevent bacterial infection ( notice infection was used and not HIV). The reason being is because the foreskin's interior contains enzymes which may help fight off bacteria but because of bad hygenic reasons these enzymes may not help reduce the risk of infection and in fact with bad hygeine one can have bacteria entrapped under the foreskin area. The removal of this is more clean and less of a concern if the foreskin was still attached.

Once infected, the aggreives virus (HIV) attaches to the white blood cells which implants it DNA and so when the cells are overloaded it explodes reproducing more HIV and the same process continues over and over again. As I mentioned before its not the actual virus that kills you its the stuff that is minor that can kill you such as colds, flus and even pnuemonia.



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Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 11:20pm
Originally posted by Israfil

Zaman I dont doubt your findings as significant and sincere but now you have used two words so far which run contrary. First you used the word "prevent" then said "reduced." Now that you mention reduced I can understand where you are coming from but again I have to read over the article to find how this reduces the contraction of AIDs but I will look over your article again.



Okay I meant reduce. I thought prevention means reduction. I admit I caused inadvertently caused misunderstanding.


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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 4:15pm
Ok reduce it is, but did you see my recent post?


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 9:47pm
Yes, I did read. But I still think it is highly probable that circumcision reduces the risk of AIDS too, (and not just bacterial infections) because I first read about it in reputed Indian daily and then, later when I first posted on this thread, I came across various web-sites which were non-islamic and corroborated it. That indicates many experts (though, not all) believe that. 

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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 12:18am
Very interesting



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