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CIA Analyst Concludes 9/11 inside job

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Conspiracy Theories
Forum Discription: Theories that may or maynot bear relevance
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6727
Printed Date: 20 October 2014 at 8:52pm


Topic: CIA Analyst Concludes 9/11 inside job
Posted By: Andalus
Subject: CIA Analyst Concludes 9/11 inside job
Date Posted: 09 September 2006 at 9:45pm

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Christison14.htm - http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug06/Christison14.htm

Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11
by Bill Christison
www.dissidentvoice.org
August 14, 2006

However horrendous the crimes of two of the world’s great liars and terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon, it is imperative that we not let the deeds of Ehud Olmert and George W. Bush distract us from another recent event. 

The U.S. alliance with Israel and the power of the lobby that lets Israel so easily influence U.S. foreign policy have been major factors in allowing the monstrous slaughter of innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon. What is happening in these lands may also encourage Olmert and Bush to start new hostilities in Syria and heavy, possibly nuclear, bombings in Iran -- and this entire mess of neocon pottage may lead to a new World War and clashes of civilizations and religious fundamentalisms that these two wretched politicians seem quite literally to want to impose on the rest of us. It’s a tough case to make that anything else going on in the world -- anywhere -- could possibly be of equal importance.

But on July 29 and 30, and then again on August 1, something else happened that increasing numbers of people believe is of equal importance. On these dates C-SPAN rebroadcast a panel discussion, held originally in late June, sponsored by an organization called the American Scholars’ Symposium to discuss what really happened on September 11, 2001. Held in Los Angeles, the meeting lasted two days, and the C-SPAN rebroadcast covered one almost two-hour wrap-up session. The meeting was attended by 1,200 people interested in hearing something other than the official story of 9/11. The TV audience was evidently large enough to spur C-SPAN to broadcast the panel discussion five separate times in four days. 

Even a month late, this is a lot of airtime for stories that many people call conspiracy theories -- and for which many others use nastier descriptions. It is possible that the head of C-SPAN, Brian Lamb, so strongly disbelieves the conspiracy theories that he felt giving them ample publicity would discredit them further. It is equally possible, however, that Lamb, who seems honestly to believe in presenting various sides of most issues as fairly as he can (although not always giving every side equal time), tried to do exactly that on the many legitimate questions raised about what actually happened on September 11. In any event, C-SPAN has made a major effort to bring information on the principal theories about 9/11 to the mainstream U.S. media. Lamb cannot be blamed for the coincidence that recent heavy military activity in Gaza and Lebanon is nearly drowning out his efforts.

Let’s address the real issues here. Why is it important that we not let the so-called conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 be drowned out? After spending the better part of the last five years treating these theories with utmost skepticism, I have devoted serious time to actually studying them in recent months, and have also carefully watched several videos that are available on the subject. I have come to believe that significant parts of the 9/11 theories are true, and that therefore significant parts of the “official story” put out by the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are false. I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. The items below highlight the major questions surrounding 9/11 but do not constitute a detailed recounting of the evidence available. 

ONE: An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. Hard physical evidence supports this conclusion; among other things, the hole in the Pentagon was considerably smaller than an airliner would create. The building was thus presumably hit by something smaller, possibly a missile, or a drone or, less possibly, a smaller manned aircraft. Absolutely no information is available on what happened to the original aircraft (American Airlines Flight 77), the crew, the “hijackers,” and the passengers. The “official story,” as it appeared in The 9/11 Commission Report simply says, “At 9:37:46, American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, traveling at approximately 530 miles per hour. All on board, as well as many civilians and military personnel in the building, were killed.” This allows readers to assume that pieces of the aircraft and some bodies of passengers were found in the rubble of the crash, but information so far released by the government does not show that such evidence was in fact found. The story put out by the Pentagon is that the plane and its passengers were incinerated; yet video footage of offices in the Pentagon situated at the edge of the hole clearly shows office furniture undamaged. The size of the hole in the Pentagon wall still remains as valid evidence and so far seems irrefutable.

TWO: The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them.  A plane did not hit Building 7 of the Center, which also collapsed.  All three were most probably destroyed by controlled demolition charges placed in the buildings before 9/11. A substantial volume of evidence shows that typical residues and byproducts from such demolition charges were present in the three buildings after they collapsed. The quality of the research done on this subject is quite impressive. 

If the judgments made on Points ONE and TWO above are correct, they raise many “Who done it” questions and strongly suggest that some unnamed persons or groups either inside or with ties to the government were actively creating a “Pearl Harbor” event, most likely to gain public support for the aggressive foreign policies that followed -- policies that would, first, “transform” the entire Middle East, and second, expand U.S. global domination.  

These first two points provide the strongest evidence available that the “official story” of 9/11 is not true. If the government could prove this evidence false, and its own story on these points correct, all the other data and speculation supporting the conspiracy theories would be undermined. It has provided no such proof and no answers to growing questions.

Other, less important points supporting the theories include the following.

THREE: For at least one hour and 45 minutes after the hijacking of the first aircraft was known, U.S. air defense authorities failed to take meaningful action. This strikes some “conspiracy theorists” as valid evidence that the U.S. Air Force was deliberately restrained from acting. Maybe so, but my own skepticism tells me that the inefficiency of U.S. defense forces is likely to be just as plausible an explanation.

FOUR: Some of the theorists believe that the 19 named hijackers were not actually the hijackers. One claim is that the names of the hijackers were not on the manifests of any of the four aircraft. 

FIVE: None of the 19 hijackers’ bodies were ever autopsied (since they were allegedly totally destroyed in the crashes, including even the people in the Pennsylvania crash).

SIX: At least five of the alleged hijackers (or persons with identical names) have since turned up alive in the Middle East. Nonetheless, the FBI has never bothered to re-investigate or revise the list of hijackers. Does this suggest that the FBI knows that no one in the administration is interested in reopening any further investigations?

SEVEN: Numerous pilots have allegedly told the theorists that none of the 19 hijackers could have flown the airliners well enough to hit the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon with as much accuracy as was displayed.  The debate on this issue simply raises more doubt about the government’s charge that the people it has named as hijackers are the real hijackers.

EIGHT: No one, except possibly government investigators who are not talking, has seen the plane that went down in Pennsylvania. Some of the conspiracy theorists suggest that it was deliberately destroyed before it hit the ground; others suggest that the plane actually landed in Cleveland and that passengers then were whisked away to some unknown destination. What happened to them at that point is simply a large question mark that makes it more difficult to believe this particular scenario.

NINE: Machinations in the U.S. stock market in the days before 9/11 suggest that some inside players in the market knew or suspected that United and American Airlines stock would soon drop. Two of the four of the aircraft involved in 9/11 were, or course, United planes and the other two were American Airlines planes. 

It should be reemphasized that these items do not make up a complete list of all the charges made by the theorists, but they are a good sample. Anyone interested in perhaps the best summary of these charges should http://www.loosechange911.com/ - watch the video “Loose Change.”

To repeat, points ONE and TWO above are the most important. If something other than an airliner actually did hit the Pentagon on 9/11, and if the North and South Towers of the World Trade Center actually were dropped to the ground by controlled demolitions rather than by anything connected to the hijackings, the untrue stories peddled by The 9/11 Commission Report are clearly susceptible of being turned into major political issues.

A Scripps Howard News Service/Ohio University poll taken from July 6 to 24, 2006 concluded that “more than a third [36 percent] of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them, so that the United States could go to war in the Middle East.” The poll also found that “16 percent of Americans speculate that secretly planted explosives, not burning passenger jets, were the real reason the massive twin towers of the World Trade Center collapsed.”

A poll done by the Zogby polling organization two months earlier, between May 12 and 16, 2006, and using questions worded somewhat differently, suggested even more strongly that the issue could become a “big one” if aggressively publicized. This poll concluded that 42 percent of Americans believed there had indeed been a cover-up of the true events of 9/11, and an additional 10 percent of Americans were “unsure.” The co-author of the poll, W. David Kubiak, stated that, “despite years of relentless media promotion, whitewash, and 9/11 Commission propaganda, the official 9/11 story still can’t even muster 50 percent popular support.” 

Whichever of these polls is closer to the truth, it would seem that there is considerable support for making a major political issue of the subject.

This should be worked on at two different levels. At the first level, the objective should be long-term, centered on making a maximum effort to find out who the individuals and groups are that carried out the attacks in New York and Washington. Then, these people should be tried in an international court and, if possible, convicted and punished for causing so many deaths. Such a trial, accompanied by actual change in U.S. policies, would show that some people on this globe are at least trying to move closer to more just and decent behavior in human relationships around the world. 

At the second level, the short term, the task should be to immediately set to work as hard as is humanly possible to defeat in this year’s congressional election any candidate who refuses to support a no-holds-barred investigation of 9/11 by the Congress or a high-level international court. No more evidence than is now available is needed in order to begin this process.

A manageable volume of carefully collected and analyzed evidence is already at hand on both items ONE and TWO above. Such evidence should be used right now to buttress charges that elements within the Bush administration, as well as possibly other groups foreign or domestic, were involved in a massive fraud against the American people, a fraud that has led to many thousands of deaths. 

This charge of fraud, if proven, involves a much greater crime against the American people and people of the world than any other charges of fraud connected to the run-up to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. It is a charge that we should not sweep under the rug because what is happening in Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Syria, and Iran seems more pressing and overwhelming. It is a charge that is more important because it is related to all of the areas just mentioned -- after all, the events of 9/11 have been used by the administration to justify every single aspect of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East since September 11. It is a charge that is more important also because it affects the very core of our entire political system. If proven, it is a conspiracy, so far successful, not only against the people of the United States, but against the entire world. Finally, it is a charge too important to ignore simply because the U.S. government refuses to discuss it. We must force the Bush administration to discuss it.

Discussions aggressively pushed day after day about what really happened on 9/11 will be one of the most important tasks between now and early November. Such discussions can, one hopes, provide progressives with a way to jolt voters out of their apathy and inchoate willingness to support the status quo that they think gives them security -- and encourage more voters to stop supporting Bush, the Republicans, and the wobbly Democratic politicians who might as well be Republicans. A major issue like this, already supported by many voters, may prove particularly important in a congressional election year when new uncertainties in the Middle East, new possibilities of terrorism against the U.S. in retaliation for recent large-scale acts of Israeli/U.S. terrorism in Gaza and Lebanon, and the corrupt almost-single-party U.S. political system combine to make it more likely that supporters of Bush will retain their majority this November.  

In terms of electoral impact, it would not matter whether heavy publicity did in fact force the administration to accept a new high-level investigation of the 9/11 events. Initially, the principal goal would be to contribute heavily to the defeat of both Republicans and Democrats who refuse to support wholeheartedly a major new investigation by Congress or an international court. This might result in the defeat of more Republicans than Democrats in November, but ultimately the hoped-for goal should be the end of a system in which Democrats are barely different from Republicans, along with cutbacks in the political power of wealth and the foreign and domestic lobbies paid for by wealth. These are the dominant features of our system today that have practically eliminated meaningful democracy in the U.S. This failure of democracy has happened before in U.S. history, but this time it is likely to last longer -- at least until U.S. policies begin to pay as much attention to the needs of the world as they do to selfish or thoughtless needs of the U.S. and of its military-industrial complex. Attacks on the criminal events surrounding 9/11 might speed this process.

Virtually no members of Congress, Democratic or Republican, will relish calling for a further investigation of 9/11. For right now, in addition to other motives, the issue should be used to go after those political prostitutes among elected office-holders who should also be defeated because they are so easily seduced by money and power to vote for immoral wars against weak enemies.

At the Los Angeles meeting of the American Scholars’ Symposium, one of the main speakers, Webster Tarpley, summarized his own views on the events of 9/11. He emphasized that “neocon fascist madmen” had perpetrated the 9/11 “myth.” He went on to say, “The most important thing is that the 9/11 myth is the premise and the root of the Afghanistan War and the Iraq War and the coming attack on Iran. ... We must ... deprive [the myth’s perpetrators] of the ability to stampede and manipulate hundreds of millions of people [with their] ... cynically planned terrorist events.” 

Let’s give Webster Tarpley and other mistakenly labeled conspiracists who have labored in the wilderness for so long three cheers.

Bill Christison is a former senior official of the CIA. He was a National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979. Since then he has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies. 



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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/



Replies:
Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 20 November 2006 at 9:53am
Andalus

Stop looking foolish. At least stop making Muslims look foolish. People who believed themselves Muslims attacked the US on 9/11, bombed trains and busses in Spain and Britain, and killed hundreds in Bali.

Moreover, the fountain-heads in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and in other places plan orders of magnitude multiplied by thousands above what has already been done to their enemies.

We know it. You know it. If these maniacs finish their work with us, they will turn to you. Jews often are first, but they are never the last. Have you listened to any instrumental music in the last five years? If so, there is a Mullah Fatwah waiting just for you.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 10 December 2006 at 3:50am

Stop looking foolish. At least stop making Muslims look foolish.

Poor chap, parked ther for a whole 21 days with no one to talk to.

When did the Muslims persecute the Jews? Go and read some books on the Golden Period of your own history instead of distributing some 3rd rate garbage



Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 10 December 2006 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Whisper

Stop looking foolish. At least stop making Muslims look foolish.

Poor chap, parked ther for a whole 21 days with no one to talk to.

When did the Muslims persecute the Jews? Go and read some books on the Golden Period of your own history instead of distributing some 3rd rate garbage

  I think my ancestors conquered his ancestors! As for the Golden Books, aren't those for the little people?

hmmmm...Always colourful, this EJ fellow!

Brother Whisper, welcome home!



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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 10 December 2006 at 10:06am

Brother Whisper, welcome home!

Hamsheer'em, nothing like Home, ever, thogh all homes, at times, do need a bit of pesticides.



Posted By: ejdavid
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 9:39am
Why Muslims Don't Rule The World Anymore

In Muhammed's day, heroic horse mounted warriors could conquer whole swaths of the earth's surface, even if they believed that earth was flat or round. That all changed after the industrial revolution.

Today, political, military, and cultural powers accrue to those societies that master the physical universe. And this mastery is often independent of the physical courage that may or may not exist in those societies.

Americans built the twin towers, determined why they fell, and cleared the wreckage in about six months. Many Muslims are still living in their dream palaces five years later. Fantasies and wishful thinking by Muslims about 9/11 will not help Islam to recover its cultural relevance, political power, or economic success it once enjoyed.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 11 December 2006 at 10:41am

Fantasies and wishful thinking by Muslims about 9/11 will not help Islam to recover its cultural relevance, political power, or economic success it once enjoyed.

Thank you for proving my point. When we hold no substance, we are a bit prone to pouring ourselves all over the place, with much ado about nothing. It's not just Muslims who think that, a good number of Americans and an overwhelming majority of the Europeans have also arrived at the truth as the amin has constantly avoided to hold an independant "whodunit" investigation.

Comprende? Or you wish it to be translated for you?

 



Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 17 December 2006 at 9:25pm

Originally posted by ejdavid

Andalus

Stop looking foolish. At least stop making Muslims look foolish. People who believed themselves Muslims attacked the US on 9/11, bombed trains and busses in Spain and Britain, and killed hundreds in Bali.

Moreover, the fountain-heads in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and in other places plan orders of magnitude multiplied by thousands above what has already been done to their enemies.

We know it. You know it. If these maniacs finish their work with us, they will turn to you. Jews often are first, but they are never the last. Have you listened to any instrumental music in the last five years? If so, there is a Mullah Fatwah waiting just for you.

An so how exactly does this irrelevant rant place doubt on what was posted? The answer is, it does not. WHat you should truly fear is that you, and the other millions of cattle who are given cheap creature comforts in return for your complete and absolute loyalty, regardless of what you are told or how many lives are killed, have no idea why you buy into the government spin. Your response is proof. You have whored out your mind.

 



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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 4:39pm
It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 4:39pm

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

And it seems an insatiable pastime for such as your name describes to troll Muslim forums..

 



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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 8:28pm

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

And, poor Cap It All itis has something beyond insatiable need for bloodshed, even of their own folks, at times, to meet its agenda of survival. Isn't internet so lovely! It has makes it possible for single line at a time scholars of your grade who either can't read what's posted or are too scared to find out the truth and just keep posting their litrary master pieces on such serious sites.

Shall we forget about what poor Muslims need to believe or not believe just for a wee while and see what the Europeans and a good number of Americans (the ones who happen to hold a little over the national average of one point 4 brain cells) seem to conclude about this accident?

Okay, I will save you such a lengthy run if you answer just the following from Brother Andalus' post:

The U.S. alliance with Israel and the power of the lobby that lets Israel so easily influence U.S. foreign policy have been major factors in allowing the monstrous slaughter of innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon.

* An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. Hard physical evidence supports this conclusion; among other things, the hole in the Pentagon was considerably smaller than an airliner would create. The building was thus presumably hit by something smaller, possibly a missile, or a drone or, less possibly, a smaller manned aircraft. Absolutely no information is available on what happened to the original aircraft (American Airlines Flight 77), the crew, the “hijackers,” and the passengers??

* For at least one hour and 45 minutes after the hijacking of the first aircraft was known, U.S. air defense authorities failed to take meaningful action?

* At least five of the alleged hijackers (or persons with identical names) have since turned up alive in the Middle East. Nonetheless, the FBI has never bothered to re-investigate or revise the list of hijackers. Does this suggest that the FBI knows that no one in the administration is interested in reopening any further investigations?

* Machinations in the U.S. stock market in the days before 9/11 suggest that some inside players in the market knew or suspected that United and American Airlines stock would soon drop. Two of the four of the aircraft involved in 9/11 were, or course, United planes and the other two were American Airlines planes.

* Numerous pilots have allegedly told the theorists that none of the 19 hijackers could have flown the airliners well enough to hit the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon with as much accuracy as was displayed.

Those poor scantily simulator trained pilots hit targets (or even fly properly)? I have held a Private Pilots License from age 15 - been gliding + flying since I was 12. I won't be able to control an AIRLINER with all the piston engine hours I hold by now - UNLESS I go through an arduous conversion and then fly under someone's command for a few hundred hours.

It's a psychotic fantasy to believe that you can learn to fly an airliner (leave aside hitting a target with it!) by watching some videos or even with some properly licenced copy of some latest software. Flying is an art and it requires a lot of ACTUAL PRACTICE and nothing else makes up for it.

But, at the end of the day, isn't it for your own good to know "Who Dunn Such a thing" to you? Instead of frying all those Pushtoons in our mountains, with an excuse you have yourself manufactured? And, now forcing more and ever more people to actually do it and a hundred times over - through this never ending fraud of a "War of Terror".

Sometimes, it does help to grow up and get real instead of living in some cloud cuckooland.



Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 4:10am

I don't buy it.

I have friends who are Commercial/Military airline pilots and they say that
from 5 miles out and two miles visability a person could conceivably be
trained in two days to fly a jet into a target with no actual flying hours.



Posted By: Seif
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 4:26am

Of course exteremist caused 9/11, I am a Muslim and being a Muslim means being honest.  Not being self-delusional or clinging to something that is irrational.  This is what makes our religion special, the pure honesty of it.  I beg you brothers, speak the truth.

Seif



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La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah. These words are never apart and they never shall be-Nino


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 5:59am

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

Isn't that (conspiracy theories) being fed to the Americans...?

"Run!!! Muslims are coming to attack you!" (and you start running!)



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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 6:00am
Originally posted by Maryah

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

And it seems an insatiable pastime for such as your name describes to troll Muslim forums..



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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 10:22am

Of course exteremist caused 9/11, I am a Muslim and being a Muslim means being honest.  Not being self-delusional or clinging to something that is irrational.  This is what makes our religion special, the pure honesty of it.  I beg you brothers, speak the truth.

Ok, Seif, the ex tre mists also let the Pearl Harbour happen?

Indicators are very strong here. Why won't the U S allow an independent International panel to at least try to find Who Dun'it?

If next time you wish to preach anything of the "Tell the Truth" sort, it would be a good idea to start being honest at least with your own name - on the profile. Good luck!



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 10:26am

I have friends who are Commercial/Military airline pilots and they say that from 5 miles out and two miles visability a person could conceivably be trained in two days to fly a jet into a target with no actual flying hours.

Unces, imposs, let's forget about jets even a simple twin rating takes a while to get you straight and level. Yes, but perhaps with some crash course and only on actual jets of the same family.



Posted By: Seif
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Of course exteremist caused 9/11, I am a Muslim and being a Muslim means being honest.  Not being self-delusional or clinging to something that is irrational.  This is what makes our religion special, the pure honesty of it.  I beg you brothers, speak the truth.

Ok, Seif, the ex tre mists also let the Pearl Harbour happen?

Indicators are very strong here. Why won't the U S allow an independent International panel to at least try to find Who Dun'it?

If next time you wish to preach anything of the "Tell the Truth" sort, it would be a good idea to start being honest at least with your own name - on the profile. Good luck!

 

Asalam Alaykum,

No I will not give out my real birthdate either.lol

Peace and blessings to you all.

Seif



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La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah. These words are never apart and they never shall be-Nino


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 9:48pm

Asalam Alaykum,

No I will not give out my real birthdate either.lol

Peace and blessings to you all.

Seif

"Asalam" Alaykum? Lucky for us that on this site, we have learnt not to grant any credibility to nameless and faceless drones - through our considerable experience.

You may or may not know, but invariably, they all like to sugar their posts with

Invariably, all of them end with Peace and blessings to you all.

This garnish is poured ONLY by those who haven't the faintest that this phrase becomes redundant once Aslaam Alaikum has been fired.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 9:52pm

We are a seasoned lot here (all of us are not just Americans) we are more than just familiar with the "lol" type, yet, good luck with your interesting "lol tricks" your seifless attempt at honestize us all with one blow.



Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 25 February 2007 at 4:04am
Originally posted by Seif

Of course exteremist caused 9/11, I am a Muslim and being a Muslim means being honest.  Not being self-delusional or clinging to something that is irrational.  This is what makes our religion special, the pure honesty of it.  I beg you brothers, speak the truth.

Seif

Assalaamualaikum

Do you have proof as to who caused 9/11 disaster (or should I say massacre)?

 



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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Seif
Date Posted: 25 February 2007 at 6:26am

I am sorry I thought I was talking with adults.  My bad.

Seif



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La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah. These words are never apart and they never shall be-Nino


Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 26 February 2007 at 10:16am

Quote:
It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

 

Maybe they’ve all just been up too late, reading the young Winston Churchill who, in his turn, was apparently up past his bed-time, reading Nesta Webster.  Churchill wrote:

“This movement [Bolshevism, not Zionism] among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States)... this worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.(1)"

By the way, “Spartacus-Weishaupt” should be otherwise read as:  Adam Weishaupt and the Bavarian Illuminati!

Then again, and moving right along, there is always Baron Julius Evola, the Italian aristocrat and friend to Mussolini, who wrote, after being given access to the Gestapo’s files on continental freemasonry, that:

“… The [Italian] Risorgimento was only accidentally a national movement; it fell within the trend of revolutionary movements that sprang up in a group of States following the importation of the ideas of the Jacobin revolution.  The revolutions of 1848 and 1849 had the same features and followed the same watchwords in the Italian movements as those that arose in Prague, Hungary, Germany and Hapsburg Vienna.  Here we simply had many columns advancing in the service of a single international front, driven by liberal-democratic and Masonic ideology, a front whose leaders were often hidden from view … To the forces that were acting backstage and at the international level, Italy’s unification and independence were of secondary importance … The true end … was to deal mortal blows to Austria (which represented the imperial idea) and to the Church, to Rome.(2)”

Maybe Pope Leo XIII’s oft-derided and “reactionary” Humanum Genus, an encyclical against freemasonry, wasn’t so far off the mark after all.  One could go on.  Has anyone read Marvin Antelman’s “To Eliminate the Opiate?”  I am trying to get a copy.  It is there, I understand from Israeli conspiracy theorist Barry Chamish, that one might hear a Jewish perspective on the presumably organized attempts to eliminate the opiate -religion- and Judaism in particular.  

Serv

Ref:

1.       http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,849122,00.html -

2.       Evola, Julius, Men Among the Ruins, Postwar Reflections of a Radical Traditionalist, Copyright 1972 by Edizioni Mediterranee, Eng transl copyright 2002 by Inner Traditions International, (pp. 185-186) ISBN 0-89281-905-7



Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 01 March 2007 at 3:58am
Originally posted by Seif

I am sorry I thought I was talking with adults.  My bad.

Seif

Assalamu Alaikum,

This line of thinking is not suitable for discussion purposes. Please see the guidelines:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ; ;PN=1

Peace



-------------
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 02 March 2007 at 2:48am
Seifless dude needs to learn to brush aside his innuendo especially with adults.


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 14 March 2007 at 10:41pm

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

It was not a Muslim whom stated the obvious about 9/11. As a Muslim, I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, which is what the government sold its residents and the world alike: A group of men living in caves in Afghanistan were able to train men under the noses of US intelligence and synchronise a major attack at the very moment NORAD was planned to stand down to run an exercise. 

Here is more from a "non-Muslim".

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html - http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 15 March 2007 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

It was not a Muslim whom stated the obvious about 9/11. As a Muslim, I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, which is what the government sold its residents and the world alike: A group of men living in caves in Afghanistan were able to train men under the noses of US intelligence and synchronise a major attack at the very moment NORAD was planned to stand down to run an exercise. 

Here is more from a "non-Muslim".

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html - http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html

It’s really astonishing, the fantasy world that Moslems inhabit.

What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring what is evident and obvious. As usual, the conspiracy theories are running rampant. They may be valid to you, and within your own orbit that's fine. But by bringing them into the public arena, you have given approval for them to be scrutinized. That you think diabolical and sinister plots are unfolding at the hand of the US, Mossad, CIA, various other unnamed and unaccounted for conspirators, is entertaining but is also absent validation.

 

I will admit though, that after a 14 hour work day, I do get a bit of comic relief watching the saliva slinging tirades of conspiracy theorists.

 

Keep em’ comin.’  

 



Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 17 March 2007 at 11:08am
Al-kafir, don't worry, we also derive some amusement from your
inability to understand why millions of people all over the world (the
majority non-Muslim) refuse to believe the official story of 14 Arabs
quietly learning extraordinary flying skills.

And kindly put this sentence in ordinary English so we poor Moslems
might understand it better (translation: what does this mean?):
"What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to
present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring
what is evident and obvious."

Speaking of proof and validation, why don't you see if you can come
up with the vital missing evidence: prove the hijakers were on board.

And by posting these theories here, bringing them into the public
arena (did you think they were not available all over the web?) as you
say, Andalus and others have done nothing extraordinary here. Do
you think these theories require some sort of official seal of approval
before being granted 'approval for scrutiny'?


Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 18 March 2007 at 8:35am

Originally posted by Duende

Al-kafir, don't worry, we also derive some amusement from your
inability to understand why millions of people all over the world (the
majority non-Muslim) refuse to believe the official story of 14 Arabs
quietly learning extraordinary flying skills.

And kindly put this sentence in ordinary English so we poor Moslems
might understand it better (translation: what does this mean?):
"What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to
present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring
what is evident and obvious."

Speaking of proof and validation, why don't you see if you can come
up with the vital missing evidence: prove the hijakers were on board.

And by posting these theories here, bringing them into the public
arena (did you think they were not available all over the web?) as you
say, Andalus and others have done nothing extraordinary here. Do
you think these theories require some sort of official seal of approval
before being granted 'approval for scrutiny'?

You should know that your “…because I say so” argument is fine for the company [I[you keep but in the grown up world, truth supplants fiction. Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.  

 

What is evident is that there is a pervasive pattern of Moslem denial and inability to accept facts that are inconsistent with the pronouncements issued by Islam’s politburo mouthpieces.

 

The alleged Jew connections with 9-11 are the most laughable examples of this.
Moslems’ obsession with IJH is as entertaining as it is pitiable. Moslems’ self created victimhood under the guise of those crafty Joooo conspiracies is part of Arab/Moslem cultural norms. What do these endless conspiratorial musings have in common? All of them tell us of millions of Moslem Middle Easterners who have immersed themselves in an imaginary world of conspiracies that is fueled by insecurity and self hate. Remember Baghdad Bob? (Saddam’s propaganda mouthpiece who was convinced that his fantasies were more real than the US armored forces plowing through Baghdad). The Baghdad Bob syndrome is more the norm than the exception in Arab/Moslem “culture”. Historians, both Western and Islamic, have oft noted that Moslem culture is more fantasy prone than modern, Western cultures. History has shown that Islam was passed by as the Renaissance, the European enlightenment, and finally the scientific-technological revolution, all predicated on free thought and open debate, allowed the West to surge ahead and forge new avenues of social, political and economic advances.

 

 

The fact that you have this need and desire to believe in conspiracy theories seems to be an emotional defense mechanism. You seem to be the prototypical angry, self hating Moslem. You revile the West, our modern and forward reaching culture, our stunning achievements and our successes. That’s why you live in the West and that’s why you harbor such deep resentment. Your ideology has been in decline for centuries because of it’s fundamental flaws which you cannot reconcile.

 

Candidly, I’m not going to assist you in furthering your fantasies. You have this need to believe in conspiracies. I’m happy for you. It matters not to me. You just really shouldn’t expect others to buy into your waking nightmare.

 

It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as:

"DIRTY KUFFAR CRUSADERS AND ILLEGAL ZIONAZI OPPRESSORS….”
 

You will always be the perfect victim you choose to be.

 

 

 

Oh yeah. Why would anyone believe that hitting a building the size of the WTC requires anything as rigorous as “extraordinary flying skills”.  How utterly silly. A rhetorical comment, that last sentence. As Moslems will have us believe it, It's all a Mossad/CIA/Freemason/Bush/Halliburton/Neocon/ (and all manner of other, as yet, un-named and unaccounted for co-conspirators).   

 



Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 18 March 2007 at 11:24pm
Al-kafir, you sounded like saying Muslims are the most talented and efficient people in the world. Even without qualifying hours to piloting Boeing aircraft, Muslims need only a few hours to learn to pilot an aircraft. Is this what you are saying?

Once a Captain of commercial airlines spoke to me about his experiences of one of his most untalented co-pilot who does not know how to hold his aircraft at 15,000 ft whilst waiting for further instruction to land at the nearest airport. That particular co-pilot has accumulated at least 4 years of flying experiences.

Logically, to fly into WTC, the terrorists had to be at least an experience pilot. This is the constructive evidence.


Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 18 March 2007 at 11:44pm
Al-Kafir wrote:
“Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-
Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.”

That’s okay Al-Kafir, it’s obvious you’re not very aware, period.

Steve Watson & Alex Jones / Prisonplanet.com | October 14 2006

According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of
Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and
the intelligence prior to the attacks:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the
truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they
mostly lying?

Telling the truth 16%

Hiding something 53%

Mostly lying 28%

Not sure 3%"

The 84% figure mirrors other recent polls on the same issue. A
Canadian Pollput the figure at 85%. A CNN poll had the figure at 89%.
Over 80% supported the stance of Charlie Sheen when he went public
with his opinions on 9/11 as an inside job.

A recent CNN poll found that the percentage of Americans who
blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks
on New York and Washingtonrose from almost a third to almost half
over the past four years. This latest poll shows that that figure has
again risen exponentially and now stands at well over three quarters
of the population


Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:02am

Originally posted by Duende

Al-Kafir wrote:
“Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-
Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.”

That’s okay Al-Kafir, it’s obvious you’re not very aware, period.

Steve Watson & Alex Jones / Prisonplanet.com | October 14 2006

According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of
Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and
the intelligence prior to the attacks:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the
truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they
mostly lying?

Telling the truth 16%

Hiding something 53%

Mostly lying 28%

Not sure 3%"

The 84% figure mirrors other recent polls on the same issue. A
Canadian Pollput the figure at 85%. A CNN poll had the figure at 89%.
Over 80% supported the stance of Charlie Sheen when he went public
with his opinions on 9/11 as an inside job.

A recent CNN poll found that the percentage of Americans who
blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks
on New York and Washingtonrose from almost a third to almost half
over the past four years. This latest poll shows that that figure has
again risen exponentially and now stands at well over three quarters
of the population

Ah yes. “Prisonplanet”. That bastion of conspiracy theory promoting drivel which is eaten up by the… umm… how shall we say… “less than clever?”.   

 

Goofy “Prisonplanet” Polls do not elucidate facts and hard evidence which is always lacking on the part of the wacky conspiracy theorists.

 

So again, please do believe these conspiracy theories. I encourage you to do so. As comic relief, you are endlessly amusing.   

 



Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 7:52am
Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and
New York Times/CBS News polls.

I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw
negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a
response. It is amusing, you see.

It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source,
once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message.

It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/
propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which
unfortunately shall never come from the official sources.

I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/
sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me
intellectually and morally.

I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck
in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain
from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/
Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding
us with the same precision as the US military.


Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 9:44am

Originally posted by Above, Al-kafir

... It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as ...

Ok, call it the makings of a thinly and thus badly disguised conspiracy and call in the Ministry of Truth and the Warren Commission to clear things up, but I suspect that, contrary to so-called official reports which might say otherwise, Al-Kafir and RuggedTouch are, if not repeating the same instructions from Pavlov, then at least sharing the same I-Pod.

Originally posted by RuggedTouch

 It's an exercise in futility, I’m afraid. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of folly from wacky conspiracy theories to their self inflicted gaffs and blunders. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that one of the zealots you mentioned will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as … (source:  http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7360&KW=declarative - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7360&KW=declarative - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7360& ;KW=declarative ) 

This, in one of those at first seemingly unrelated events which often links broader conspiracies, or at least seems to, is what happened to a troll once up in Norway, or some such place:

 

“Who’s that tramping over my bridge?” roared the troll.  “It’s I!  The big Billy Goat Gruff,” said the billy goat, who had an ugly hoarse voice of his own.  “Now I’m coming to gobble you up,” roared the troll.  Well, come along!  I’ve got two spears, And I’ll poke your eyeballs out at your ears; I’ve got besides two curling-stones, and I’ll crush you to bits, body and bones.”

 

Serv

Ref:  http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html - http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 3:33pm

Originally posted by Duende

Al-Kafir, please read the post. These are polls conducted by CNN and
New York Times/CBS News polls.

I knew (since you are so predictable) that the source would draw
negative commentary from you, and I included it only to elicit such a
response. It is amusing, you see.

It's not my fault Prisonplanet turned up as the most succinct source,
once again: don't blame the messenger, read the message.

It is obvious you are firmly committed to the official story/
propaganda, I am firmly committed to knowing the truth which
unfortunately shall never come from the official sources.

I will gladly take your encouragement, offered in such a paternalistic/
sarcastic tone, coming as it does from one so far ahead of me
intellectually and morally.

I also encourage you to continue living your life with your head stuck
in the sand, gladly swallowing the propaganda fed to you, just refrain
from forcing your own limited viewpoint on the rest of us. Fox/
Murdoch/Washington Post et al are already doing that: bombarding
us with the same precision as the US military.

Because you somehow missed it the first time I’ll reiterate that copying and pasting the results of polls doesn’t pass for facts. You’re enthralled with conspiracy theories because they reinforce your learned hatreds and biases.

 

It’s as though you embrace the inverse of reason and rationality. You operate backwards starting from a desperately desired answer then proceeding to the imaginary and invented evidence needed to prove it.  In the fixed cast of the rabid conspiracy theorist the weight of endlessly repeated fantasy and conjecture is simply smothering.

 

There are the tabloid websites that are akin to the supermarket tabloid news rags which cater to the gullible and the easily persuaded. They drum the same story into millions of minds. The method used is always to tell one, single narrative, typically by way of answering questions with questions or just posing open ended questions and to smother any competing ideas. That is how the “less than discerning” are able to convince themselves that Joooos control the world, that fantasy is reality and that personal ineptitude and failure is answered by detonating car bombs in crowded markets. Its standard cult indoctrination scaled up to millions of susceptible minds.

 



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 5:33pm

Al-kafir,

Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London.

I am interested in knowing how Dianna did not die on the motor, was saved, is being kept hidden from the world and will appear just before the crowning of Prince Charles when he turns 84. Just heard there is a swoon story going around in the market places of Europe. 

 



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by bmzsp

Al-kafir,

Amuse me before I say "We are not amused!" Tabloids are aplenty in London.

I am interested in knowing how Dianna did not die on the motor, was saved, is being kept hidden from the world and will appear just before the crowning of Prince Charles when he turns 84. Just heard there is a swoon story going around in the market places of Europe. 

You realize of course that there will be those who are nodding, slack-jawed and eyes pinned to the ceiling in concurrence to your post. I think that's beyond likely.

 

There are similarly silly swoon stories circulating about, such as those proffered on this thread. I think we make a mistake by believing these sorts of conspiracy theories were ever or would ever be purely spontaneous. There is an unmistakable manipulative influence at work there.

 

Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11?

I applaud your discriminating logic.



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:33pm

"Haven’t you heard that the Joooos were instructed not to go to work on 9-11?"

No, Al-kafir.

Why were the Americans not instructed?  

 



Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by Al-kafir

It seems that Moslems have an insatiable need to believe conspiracy theories.

It was not a Muslim whom stated the obvious about 9/11. As a Muslim, I do not believe in a conspiracy theory, which is what the government sold its residents and the world alike: A group of men living in caves in Afghanistan were able to train men under the noses of US intelligence and synchronise a major attack at the very moment NORAD was planned to stand down to run an exercise. 

Here is more from a "non-Muslim".

What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?

http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html - http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html

It’s really astonishing, the fantasy world that Moslems inhabit.

What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring what is evident and obvious. As usual, the conspiracy theories are running rampant. They may be valid to you, and within your own orbit that's fine. But by bringing them into the public arena, you have given approval for them to be scrutinized. That you think diabolical and sinister plots are unfolding at the hand of the US, Mossad, CIA, various other unnamed and unaccounted for conspirators, is entertaining but is also absent validation.

 

I will admit though, that after a 14 hour work day, I do get a bit of comic relief watching the saliva slinging tirades of conspiracy theorists.

 

Keep em’ comin.’  

 

The only tirade I have seen on this thread are yours, which follow the usual tautological drivel of "brand", "label" and "insult", that way you do not have to actually say anything of value, you can simply pop in with your juvenile tidbits that do not invaildate anything be stated.

The article that initiated this thread was not a "tirade", not even in a loose interpretation of the word. 

You can continue to pretend some kind of silly charade, but no one is fooled, and it is obvious you have no answer to any point that has been presented.

 



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Duende

Al-kafir, don't worry, we also derive some amusement from your
inability to understand why millions of people all over the world (the
majority non-Muslim) refuse to believe the official story of 14 Arabs
quietly learning extraordinary flying skills.

And kindly put this sentence in ordinary English so we poor Moslems
might understand it better (translation: what does this mean?):
"What I see as obvious in the lack of ability for the moslem posters to
present any cogent argument is the pervasive pattern of ignoring
what is evident and obvious."

Speaking of proof and validation, why don't you see if you can come
up with the vital missing evidence: prove the hijakers were on board.

And by posting these theories here, bringing them into the public
arena (did you think they were not available all over the web?) as you
say, Andalus and others have done nothing extraordinary here. Do
you think these theories require some sort of official seal of approval
before being granted 'approval for scrutiny'?

You should know that your “…because I say so” argument is fine for the company [I[you keep but in the grown up world, truth supplants fiction. Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.  

What is evident is that there is a pervasive pattern of Moslem denial and inability to accept facts that are inconsistent with the pronouncements issued by Islam’s politburo mouthpieces.

The alleged Jew connections with 9-11 are the most laughable examples of this.
Moslems’ obsession with IJH is as entertaining as it is pitiable. Moslems’ self created victimhood under the guise of those crafty Joooo conspiracies is part of Arab/Moslem cultural norms. What do these endless conspiratorial musings have in common? All of them tell us of millions of Moslem Middle Easterners who have immersed themselves in an imaginary world of conspiracies that is fueled by insecurity and self hate. Remember Baghdad Bob? (Saddam’s propaganda mouthpiece who was convinced that his fantasies were more real than the US armored forces plowing through Baghdad). The Baghdad Bob syndrome is more the norm than the exception in Arab/Moslem “culture”. Historians, both Western and Islamic, have oft noted that Moslem culture is more fantasy prone than modern, Western cultures. History has shown that Islam was passed by as the Renaissance, the European enlightenment, and finally the scientific-technological revolution, all predicated on free thought and open debate, allowed the West to surge ahead and forge new avenues of social, political and economic advances.

The fact that you have this need and desire to believe in conspiracy theories seems to be an emotional defense mechanism. You seem to be the prototypical angry, self hating Moslem. You revile the West, our modern and forward reaching culture, our stunning achievements and our successes. That’s why you live in the West and that’s why you harbor such deep resentment. Your ideology has been in decline for centuries because of it’s fundamental flaws which you cannot reconcile.

Candidly, I’m not going to assist you in furthering your fantasies. You have this need to believe in conspiracies. I’m happy for you. It matters not to me. You just really shouldn’t expect others to buy into your waking nightmare.

It's an exercise in futility dealing with self created victims. Gag a zealot. Shake a shiny object before his crazed eyes to get his attention. Calmly delineate in simple declarative sentences of user-friendly monosyllables a logical progression of facts, science and demonstration. Nod reassuringly. Slowly remove the gag. It is inevitable that the zealot will defiantly screech and sputter something as cogent as:

"DIRTY KUFFAR CRUSADERS AND ILLEGAL ZIONAZI OPPRESSORS….”
 

You will always be the perfect victim you choose to be.

Oh yeah. Why would anyone believe that hitting a building the size of the WTC requires anything as rigorous as “extraordinary flying skills”.  How utterly silly. A rhetorical comment, that last sentence. As Moslems will have us believe it, It's all a Mossad/CIA/Freemason/Bush/Halliburton/Neocon/ (and all manner of other, as yet, un-named and unaccounted for co-conspirators).   

 

You realize that you have stated absolutely nothing in the entire piece that you just put forth. You accuse Duende of "asserting", this is at least much more "realistic" then your silly and sophomoric "tirades" that repeat, and repeat, and repeat, but never actually state why anyone is wrong.

 



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 19 March 2007 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Duende

Al-Kafir wrote:
“Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-
Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.”

That’s okay Al-Kafir, it’s obvious you’re not very aware, period.

Steve Watson & Alex Jones / Prisonplanet.com | October 14 2006

According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of
Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and
the intelligence prior to the attacks:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the
truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they
mostly lying?

Telling the truth 16%

Hiding something 53%

Mostly lying 28%

Not sure 3%"

The 84% figure mirrors other recent polls on the same issue. A
Canadian Pollput the figure at 85%. A CNN poll had the figure at 89%.
Over 80% supported the stance of Charlie Sheen when he went public
with his opinions on 9/11 as an inside job.

A recent CNN poll found that the percentage of Americans who
blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks
on New York and Washingtonrose from almost a third to almost half
over the past four years. This latest poll shows that that figure has
again risen exponentially and now stands at well over three quarters
of the population

Ah yes. “Prisonplanet”. That bastion of conspiracy theory promoting drivel which is eaten up by the… umm… how shall we say… “less than clever?”.   

 

Goofy “Prisonplanet” Polls do not elucidate facts and hard evidence which is always lacking on the part of the wacky conspiracy theorists.

So again, please do believe these conspiracy theories. I encourage you to do so. As comic relief, you are endlessly amusing.   

 

And yet more tirless drivel ad nauseum. You simply whine and complain and label, and to top it off, you ignore the other polls. You also committed a genetic fallacy: So what if something comes from prison planet, that does not make it wrong.

 Your name fits you, "cover the truth".

 



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 12:12am
Al-Kafir/RuggedTouch wrote:
"It’s as though you embrace the inverse of reason and rationality.
You operate backwards starting from a desperately desired answer
then proceeding to the imaginary and invented evidence needed to
prove it. In the fixed cast of the rabid conspiracy theorist the weight
of endlessly repeated fantasy and conjecture is simply smothering."

Aah my friend, don't you see how you have just described yourself?
Al-kafir/RuggedTouch wrote:
“You’re enthralled with conspiracy theories because they reinforce
your learned hatreds and biases.”

But Al-Kafir/RuggedTouch it is your reinforced hatred of Muslims
that brings you here to denigrate and label, lie and further reinforce
your learned hatreds and fears.

You said:
“There is an unmistakable manipulative influence at work there.”
(Ah yes, the 'mano negra'.)

George. W. Bush said: “See, in my line of work you got to keep
repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink
in...to kind of catapult the propaganda."

Servetus, thankyou for your brilliant exposé.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 2:31am

Duende, Andalus & Serv

 

Al-kafir aka Rugged Touch,

I can recommend you some sites where you can shew and shine your flair and others will do that to you better and with a great pleasure.



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 2:58am
Originally posted by Andalus

Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by Duende

Al-Kafir wrote:
“Except for your claiming so, I’m not aware that “(the majority non-
Muslim)” refuse to believe (9-11) as you claim.”

That’s okay Al-Kafir, it’s obvious you’re not very aware, period.

Steve Watson & Alex Jones / Prisonplanet.com | October 14 2006

According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of
Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and
the intelligence prior to the attacks:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the
truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they
mostly lying?

Telling the truth 16%

Hiding something 53%

Mostly lying 28%

Not sure 3%"

The 84% figure mirrors other recent polls on the same issue. A
Canadian Pollput the figure at 85%. A CNN poll had the figure at 89%.
Over 80% supported the stance of Charlie Sheen when he went public
with his opinions on 9/11 as an inside job.

A recent CNN poll found that the percentage of Americans who
blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks
on New York and Washingtonrose from almost a third to almost half
over the past four years. This latest poll shows that that figure has
again risen exponentially and now stands at well over three quarters
of the population

Ah yes. “Prisonplanet”. That bastion of conspiracy theory promoting drivel which is eaten up by the… umm… how shall we say… “less than clever?”.   

 

Goofy “Prisonplanet” Polls do not elucidate facts and hard evidence which is always lacking on the part of the wacky conspiracy theorists.

So again, please do believe these conspiracy theories. I encourage you to do so. As comic relief, you are endlessly amusing.   

 

And yet more tirless drivel ad nauseum. You simply whine and complain and label, and to top it off, you ignore the other polls. You also committed a genetic fallacy: So what if something comes from prison planet, that does not make it wrong.

 Your name fits you, "cover the truth".

 

Because you seem similarly bereft of reading comprehension skills, since when do polls take the place of facts and evidence?

If you're just going to parrot the comments of other conspiracy theorists, why bother wasting everyone's time?

 



Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 10:12am

Al-Kafir aka RuggedTouch wrote:
… That is how the “less than discerning” are able to convince themselves that Joooos control the world …

 

Be that as it may, the “less than discerning” are as usual wrong.  Jews don’t control the world.  According to Winston Churchill, a reader, when he wasn’t busy actually writing history, not only of Nesta Webster but perhaps of British tabloids as well, they are only the (a-hem) force majeure behind the worldwide Communist conspiracy to conscript the world’s wealth.

 

It is, rather, by means of its all-powerful institution, the Council on Foreign Relations, not to mention one of its preeminent institutions, Georgetown University, that the Vatican (and the Jez-you-iiiiiiits) controls the rest of the world.  For proof, just fly to Tel Aviv and ask Barry Chamish.

 

 

Serv

 

Democracy is a conspiracy, designed to thwart my political will to power!



Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 20 March 2007 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Al-kafir

Because you seem similarly bereft of reading comprehension skills, since when do polls take the place of facts and evidence?

If you're just going to parrot the comments of other conspiracy theorists, why bother wasting everyone's time?

Kafir, here I quote from your own post on 4th Jan 2007 in the link http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/zaid_shakir/2007/01/my_conversion_was_my_most_form.html - http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/zaid_shakir/2007/ 01/my_conversion_was_my_most_form.html

You may read your own post and tell us/stop shouting nonsense; who is believing on conspiracy theories? You gave up Islam coz you felt some st**id eithists, that you read, were more logical? Shame on conspirators like you:

Quoted text from Kafir: [[I can’t remember exactly when the seed of doubt implanted in my mind about the religion I born into. It could be then when I used to attend the Friday prayers in the mosque and my hands were raised too with the believers to praise Allah and his Rasul (Prophet) to bring devastation to Israel day after day, Friday after Friday with no result. ...................

My father is a very strict and devoted Muslim. He went to Mecca to perform the hajj. When I was a college student, we used to perform magreeb, eesha and Fazr salat with jamat at home. My father used to be the imam and we two brothers were his followers. ................. 

After 9/11, once just to see what happens, I put the word “anti-Islam” in google and clicked search. It led me to the answering Islam.org. For almost 2 years I have been clinging to that site to read its contents almost every day. That time I felt I am not alone. And there are many evil minds like me who are after the truth. It empowered my mind and attested my questions and thoughts about Islam. I started feeling that in some extent I was correct about Islam. This site helped me a lot. I started to copy paste many articles in my hard disk to read them later. I have taken books available there and from other similar sites. .......................

I could not make up my mind how and from where to start. Writing book using materials I already collected, was a dangerous idea considering the situation, so I decided not to do that. Moreover, after that incident, I don't think any publisher would be interested in any book that would definitely be banned here by less than a week. ..................]]

Your post clearly declares your intension; that's to join the conspirators of Islam....
It was a very cheap thought; driven by the desire to be cheaply famous !! by exploiting religion !! Only a filthy conspirator can have such thoughts.

You have the right to accept/reject any religion; but your logic for going against islam is weak, mysterious and blurred by your evil desires.



-------------
"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 23 March 2007 at 10:02am
Kafir is RuggedTouch and shall Inshallah shortly be banned, check
his use of English in the quote above and in Servetus brilliant
exposé.

And now, to add more fuel to his rabid rejection of unofficial theories
and to agitate his slack jawed, glazed eye'd expression:
(www.blog.agoracosmopolitan.com/?p=154)

Former CIA official supports Professor's claim that official 9/11
Islamist conspiracy theory are lies
by Paul Chen
David Ray Griffin.


David Ray Griffin is widely recognized as one of the leading
spokespersons of the 9/11 truth movement. This is by virtue of his
previous four books on the subject. Professor Griffin and a growing
list of scholars, other researchers as well as diverse experts and
activists, reject the official Islamist mastermind conspiracy theory
about 9/11 advanced by Establishment interests.

Although the 9/11 truth movement was long ignored by the U.S.
government and the mainstream media, recent polls have shown that
(as Time magazine has acknowledged) the rejection of the official
theory has become "a mainstream political phenomenon."

It is not surprising, therefore, that the U.S. government and the Big
Business controlled media have shifted tactics. No longer ignoring
the 9/11 truth movement, they have released a flurry of stories and
reports aimed at debunking it.

In David Ray Griffin's new book entitled Debunking 9/11, shows that
these attempts can themselves be easily debunked.

"Debunking 9/11 is a superb compendium of the strong body of
evidence showing the official U.S. Government story of what
happened on September 11, 2001 to be almost certainly a
monstrous series of lies. Tragically, the entire course of U.S. foreign
and domestic policies since that date has grown out of these almost
certain falsehoods," says Bill Christison, former senior official of the
CIA.

Mr. Christison further indicates that, "This single book could (and
should) provide the basis for the United Nations International Court
of Justice, or some specially constituted global body (independent of
the U.S.) to investigate with highest priority, and publicly report its
findings about, the charge that unknown elements within the U.S.
Government, and possibly some individuals elsewhere closely allied
to the U.S., caused or contributed to causing the events of September
11 to happen.”

Besides demonstrating the pitiful failure of "Debunking 9/11 Myths"
(published by Popular Mechanics and endorsed by Senator John
McCain), Professor Griffin critically challenges recent reports and
stories put out by the US Department of State, the National Institute
of Standards and Technology, the New York Times, Vanity Fair, and
Time magazine.

Professor Griffin also responds to criticisms of these efforts by left-
leaning and Christian publications -- which one might have expected
to be supportive.

Throughout these critiques, Griffin shows that the charge that is
regularly levelled against critics of the official theory -- that they
employ irrational and unscientific methods to defend conclusions
based on faith -- actually applies more fully to those who defend the
official theory.

“Considering how the 9/11 tragedy has been used by the Bush
administration to propel us into immoral wars again and again, I
believe that David Ray Griffin's provocative questions about 9/11
deserve to be investigated and addressed,” says Howard Zinn, author
of A People’s History of the United States.

"Professor Griffin is the nemesis of the 9/11 cover-up. This new
book destroys the credibility of the NIST and Popular Mechanics
reports and annihilates his critics," says Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant
Secretary of the U.S. Treasury during the Reagan administration.

“David Ray Griffin hits another one out of the park by taking on the
left gatekeepers and the mass media for the lies and cover-up called
‘the official story of 9/11/01,’ which is the greatest conspiracy
theory ever perpetrated on the American public. I highly recommend
this book for all thinking Americans,” further indicates Meria Heller,
Producer Host of the Meria Heller Show (www.meria.net).

This book, by debunking the most prevalent attempts to refute the
evidence cited by the 9/11 truth movement, shows that this
movement's central claim -- that 9/11 was an inside job -- remains
the only explanation that fits the facts.


Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 23 March 2007 at 4:04pm

Originally posted by Duende


This book, by debunking the most prevalent attempts to refute the
evidence cited by the 9/11 truth movement, shows that this
movement's central claim -- that 9/11 was an inside job -- remains
the only explanation that fits the facts.

It seems that “David Ray Griffin” is making quite a nice living placating the conspiratorial musings of the gullible and the easily persuaded. Not that the 9/11 conspiracy nuts will allow their musing to be imposed upon by facts and reality. I’m afraid your entire worldview is couched in terms of vast conspiracy theories, conspired amongst a vast collection of unnamed and unidentified conspirators for an as yet unidentified goal. And make no mistake, you are so consumed with conspiracy theories that your every waking moment is spent looking over your shoulder for the Zionist/CIA/Freemason/Enemy of Islam™, boogeyman.

 

As noted previously, I encourage you to believe each and every conspiracy theory that you stumble across. It is probably for the best that you not know the truth. You will be happier believing your "conspiracy theories".

I recognize why all digressions are so attractive to intellectual dead enders as they flail about in the polluted backwash of ongoing conspiracy theories, but evoking these endless conspiratorial musings hardly serves honest discussion - although, admittedly, the shared difficulty in coming to grips with reality is certainly a cogent parallel of the phenomenon of irrational denial. Still, Self deceit – well, that works too. Carry on!

 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 March 2007 at 8:28am

I try and surface as often as my generous server allows anything beyond its usual 4.8 kbps quota and if this page opens before the next abort.

Why souldn't we allow this chap Stonned Touch (or whatever) stay with us? If you just look at the global situation and what this gang has done to the U S, it will become easy to understand the deep trauma faced by this chap.

Tomorow, I will try and get to some point from where I could log on again and explain how the poor Alliance is facing a clean wash out - and in that nervousness the gang is trying to paste the blame of their defeat - on Mush.

After coming face to face with the reality on ground in Afghanistan, I have come filled with a lot of pity for any American.

Sasha - Lahore



Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 5:58am
Perhaps, Al-Kafir aka the RuggedTouch is studying the theory of conspiracy for his next assignment that to be submitted soon. If I am the professor or the lecturer, I will grade you 'C' FOR COPYCAT.   


Posted By: imranlogic
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 7:25am

slam

what do you think about the jews role in 9/11 with facts and figures

slam

 



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 8:10am

Originally posted by pauline35

Perhaps, Al-Kafir aka the RuggedTouch is studying the theory of conspiracy for his next assignment that to be submitted soon. If I am the professor or the lecturer, I will grade you 'C' FOR COPYCAT.   

Reading your clumsily assembled posts makes it quite apparent that you’re no professor.



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 8:12am
Originally posted by imranlogic

slam

what do you think about the jews role in 9/11 with facts and figures

slam

 

There are no credible facts or figures to support that claim.



Posted By: imranlogic
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 8:25am

there wasnt any need to write alkafir on your nickname your behaviour told that you are purely kafir

keep it up



Posted By: Al-kafir
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 8:35am
Originally posted by imranlogic

there wasnt any need to write alkafir on your nickname your behaviour told that you are purely kafir

keep it up

I'm only purely kafir to your beliefs, as is most of the world.



Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 25 March 2007 at 9:38am
Originally posted by Al-kafir

Originally posted by imranlogic

there wasnt any need to write alkafir on your nickname your behaviour told that you are purely kafir

keep it up

I'm only purely kafir to your beliefs, as is most of the world.

 

Hey man, don't try to be self made spokes man for the rest of the world. You can only say for yourself. You are one of the sti-king kafir by all faith. Eithist as you proclaim.

I feel pitty for you that Allah did not destine you to have respect for your father; Atleast not as much u have for your eithist professor.

Don't show different face in different places; or is that what you learnt from ur eithist professor?



-------------
"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 26 March 2007 at 7:20am
Al-kafir wrote : There are no credible facts or figures to support that claim.

Certainly your clumsy facts reproduced your stand to sheild your lineage from being stoned.


Posted By: imranlogic
Date Posted: 26 March 2007 at 9:31am
if you havent any bad creeds about islam then why comments in such  a way



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