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A fair discussion on my beloved Kashmir

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: World Politics
Forum Discription: World Politics
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6557
Printed Date: 01 September 2014 at 11:51pm


Topic: A fair discussion on my beloved Kashmir
Posted By: s666
Subject: A fair discussion on my beloved Kashmir
Date Posted: 28 August 2006 at 7:00am
hi everyone!

i just want to start a discussion on kashmir.

what do you think about kashmir?

should it be independent or should it be a part of india or pakistan or should the line of control be made the international boundary?

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.  this has been the trend all the time.  one cannot part it in the name of religion.



Replies:
Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 03 September 2006 at 5:16am

  You pose a question about the future of Kashmir which is well known as  " Heaven of the Earth" but unfortunatley rightnow burning in the fire. In my opinion first of all India & Pakistan withdraw their armies then they give us right of selfdetermination where we can decide about our future. If we get the chance of right of self determination my vote will go in favor of an independent Kashmir.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 04 September 2006 at 11:32am

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.

Brother, I respect your sentiment, I am very fond of India and, specially, her unique spread of cultures, people, aromas and whatelesnot. It's sad how her colonial masters dismembered her.

But, we need to look at quite a few things before we discuss this sore left between people who had otherwise shared Eid and Diwali together for a far longer while than London louts would wish us to believe.

Kashmir, like Deccan, was always an independent sovereign state. When we study the Indian history, we find that Gwalior, Oudh and 342 other small and medium sized states were also independent soverign states, but these joined the "Union" through an Instrument of Accession.

Sometimes after the Sikh wars, our Great Brits annexed Kashmir and sold it to the Dogras, for a price that even a East End (London) thug won't accept for his stolen goods! Lock, stock, the valley and her people were sold for 7.5 million rupees.

Accession was linked with one other condition; the demographic make up of the state. Hari Singh wanted to stay independent of either country, but was pushed to execute the Instrument of Accession in an interesting James Bond style move.

The Kashmiris had already had enough of Bari Saerkaar's alcoholic high handedness, they rose against being again sold off gainst their will. 

The UN intervened. The civilised nations of our world promised them that if they ceased fire, we will hold a plebecite to find out what they wished to do.

My friend, the easy going, fine natured, one of the finest craftsman and artisan, Kashmiri waited patiently for the civilised nations to deliver on their promise after laying arms one frozen February morning in 1948. (sorry, I am no scholar and don't remember the exact date)

They waited a whole generation. We did nothing. Our inaction forced them to pick up arms and start on a journey of their struggle. And, now India has been bogged down in the valley for almost a couple of decades. This seems to have given India nothing other than an occassional Bollywood bumper boxoffice hit based on some valliant kashmir script.

Won't it be good, both, for India and Pakistan (in our electronic age, which has renederd territorial control as a smelly baggage of the some distant past) to set up Kashmir with open borders with both the countries if not also with China and Central Asia - and have an example of realtime global trading and tourism at our doorsteps?

I love India and Pakistan, but they idiotically keep growling at each other while the real enemy dances all the way to the bank with their defence budgets.



Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 04 September 2006 at 9:09pm
Originally posted by mohammad

  You pose a question about the future of Kashmir which is well known as  " Heaven of the Earth" but unfortunatley rightnow burning in the fire. In my opinion first of all India & Pakistan withdraw their armies then they give us right of selfdetermination where we can decide about our future. If we get the chance of right of self determination my vote will go in favor of an independent Kashmir.



thank you.


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 04 September 2006 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Brother, I respect your sentiment, I am very fond of India and, specially, her unique spread of cultures, people, aromas and whatelesnot. It's sad how her colonial masters dismembered her.

But, we need to look at quite a few things before we discuss this sore left between people who had otherwise shared Eid and Diwali together for a far longer while than London louts would wish us to believe.



thank you brother.  never bother about the past, we still celebrate eid and diwali together.

Originally posted by Whisper

Kashmir, like Deccan, was always an independent sovereign state. When we study the Indian history, we find that Gwalior, Oudh and 342 other small and medium sized states were also independent soverign states, but these joined the "Union" through an Instrument of Accession.


brother, kashmir, deccan etc were independent states since around 500 years.  before that they were indeed part of india.  india was similar to the european union.

i have my own reservations for kashmir. 

what happened to all those hindu pundits and the temples in kashmir?

why is urdu and not kashmiri the language of pakistan controlled kashmir?

why aren't there any hindus or buddhists in pakistan controlled kashmir?

thumbs up for a plebescite, but do you really think the problem of terrorism will subside if kashmir was made independent?

i am afraid it would just become another taleban.


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 2:13am

thumbs up for a plebescite, but do you really think the problem of terrorism will subside if kashmir was made independent?

Yaar, be honest, when did you last see someone becoming a terrorist if treated as a human being? of couse, other than in US movies or in the White Supremacist propoganda?

The kasmiris have lived at peace with their neighbours since god knows when. How many neighbours have they overrun in, say, these 2020 years? What do we expect from people when we refuse to honour our promises and break them with military might and the collusion of some divine civilised nations? Garlands and baggoo goshes? (Kashmiri pear, the finest ever you could taste in the world. It just melts by the time it travels out of the state)

Try it and you will see that the Kashmiri will be as cute as some Lucknow Kidwais.

i am afraid it would just become another taleban.
I never knew you will digest such a lame excuse designed, primarily, for scaring the intelligence-defficient Americans' pants off and also to mute a growing voice within India.

We talibanise people with our colonial designes and attrocities, It has nothing to do someone's blood group or ethnic background. That's a mere figment of Zionist imagination.

brother, kashmir, deccan etc were independent states since around 500 years.  before that they were indeed part of india.  india was similar to the european union.

Very hard to find anything like that since Alexander. We may have look into the Ashoka period, but a union, as you say, like the EU is not exactly how we are treating people? I never knew, we grow nukes to invite our neighbours to a Sunday afternoon Re-union party?

Indian Congress and the great Brits manufactured Pakistan - for the noble purpose of diluting the the largest minority vote bank (the Indian Muslims) and as a deterent to the historic links the Indian Mussalmaan had with the Trucial (now known as the Gulf) states. Our good old Cricket fame Sharjah royal, Qasmi's mother was a Mumbaite. The famous UAE NeoCon, Khaleej Time's Galadari's grandmother was an Indian Muslim.

The list goes on and on. We just need to examine the Princes College records.

Jinnah never wanted a separate state. He was pushed by the Hang Low Sexnon cunning.

what happened to all those hindu pundits and the temples in kashmir?

Brother, weren't they okay before we turned the Kashmiri into an enemy?

why aren't there any hindus or buddhists in pakistan controlled kashmir?
Please educate me, I am really as lost. But all of this may have something to do with the great British gift of ethnic cleansing India?

How many Rabbis do we now find in Ramallah?

My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours. The west is keeping these swords hanging over our heads to keep our actual potential in check. Sit up one day, see beyond the interesting headlines and we will find that bot the Indians and the Pakistanis have a common enemy.

(What should we call the Nangas and the Naxalites - Nangxibaans?)



Posted By: Muhammad77
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 4:06am

     My personal opinion :-

1) No side would agree to hand over Kashmir to other side. If any side wants to gain control of Kashmir, the only way by which they can get it is by WAR.

2) If there should be no war, then both sides should agree to have Kashmir, in the sense that half of Kashmir goes to Pakistan, and the remaining half goes to India.

3) If that is also not possible then the only last option left is an Independent Kashmir.

    Kashmir issue is a very complicated and sensitive issue, and the solution will not come any soon, and also would there be any solution to this issue, we do not know.

 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 7:44am

3) If that is also not possible then the only last option left is an Independent Kashmir.

Brother, Kashmir was an independent sovereign state. The Brits messed it up. I cant tell you here, but I will PM you the secret why the Brits cant stay without messing things up!

Kashmir has every right to become an independent state.

And, if I were a Kashmiri, I would sue the Brits and also the Indians for compensation.

In fact, the Indians and the Pakis should also sue the Brits for mesing their lives and a few other things up. I feel, a couple of trillion pounds would should do. I know a "no win, no fee" lawyer in London.



Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 8:08am

Assalamu Alaikum ,

There is no complete solution of Kashmir Issue. Unless and untill we stray away the leaders  from both the borders  who do not want the solution  for the problem but what they  want to  gain is - complete political advantage. Both the countries know very well that the third party  {US} is in advantage and it does not want us to finalise something.  You and me talk of numerous solutions and suppose  even  if we come to a final one its of no use. They enjoy blood shed at  both the sides. Secondly its the media thats raving this issue. Indian media shows that its Pakistanis who had done it and its similar there. A minor issue is raised up so much that there's discussions continuosly, ultimately they forget the point they are speaking to, moving till the end.
A pakistani family who visited our neighbours , said the same, that its the media  which is fanning the hatred amongst both  the countries. That family had a school going boy who spent his time with us. Naturally we  had a good bond of friendship. Before he left us we asked him, "When will u b back Khurram?" We all were awstruck by his answer. He said , " I will return  India only as a soldier" Am not blaming any country men but what i want to say is we achieved nothing except  HATRED with those white collar meetings. And as "Mohammed" suggested  war is the solution--------, But i feel no. It again spreads hatred for muslims  in India. Its happening that during any of the blasts or even a small incidents  occur, innocent muslims are put in jails naming then as "Terrorist". May be one amongst   50 is a wrong person but the rest 49 are put in jails with the same proofs and verifications.  Lets leave  this issue for some more years and the coming generations  will forget it.  "Being neighbours thodi bahoth khit- pit tho jayaz hai"

Also Hats Off to the knowledge of our member "Whisper" . Being from  a different place he has got a very deep knowledge of  India.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:34pm
brother Whisper, i never said pakistan is india's enemy nor i posted this topic against muslims.  there are millitant hindus and muslims who do not want us to be peaceful.  come to india and you will find as many masjids as there are temples.

just go to indian kashmir and see for yourself how people are treated.  no kashmiri helps a terrorist.  when i said kashmir will turn into another taleban in regard to its poor people.  poverty breeds unethical behaviour.

Originally posted by Whisper

Brother, weren't they okay before we turned the Kashmiri into an enemy?


then what did hindus or buddhists do in afghanistan?  why were those temples and monastries destroyed?  this is why i say kashmir will be another taleban.  why can't the religion and the state kept separate?

Originally posted by Whisper

My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours. The west is keeping these swords hanging over our heads to keep our actual potential in check. Sit up one day, see beyond the interesting headlines and we will find that bot the Indians and the Pakistanis have a common enemy.


thank you Whisper for agreeing with me.  i have been saying the same thing in many of my posts.

Originally posted by Whisper

(What should we call the Nangas and the Naxalites - Nangxibaans?)


these naxallites have to be checked as well.  if naxalites and terrorists join hands, then it will be the worst of situations.

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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Brother, Kashmir was an independent sovereign state. The Brits messed it up. I cant tell you here, but I will PM you the secret why the Brits cant stay without messing things up!



interesting brother Whisper!

someone comes and occupies the territory and it becomes their own!?

muslims have been saying that your country, i.e., spain was a muslim country...  why would anyone say such a thing?  wasn't spain occupied by the muslims?

Originally posted by Whisper

Kashmir has every right to become an independent state.



brother, who would guarentee the well being of the hindus and buddhists there?

hindus and buddhists were driven out of pakistan's kashmir and now you want the remaining also to be driven out and the rest of kashmir kept open for the occupation by china?




-------------
http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

It again spreads hatred for muslims  in India. Its happening that during any of the blasts or even a small incidents  occur, innocent muslims are put in jails naming then as "Terrorist". May be one amongst   50 is a wrong person but the rest 49 are put in jails with the same proofs and verifications.


brother, how does anyone know whether a person is innocent or not?

this simply shows the insecurity in the minds of a few minorities in india.

such people know not of the spate of the non-muslims in the muslim countries.

these people dont know that even hindus are jailed in search of culprits.

and did such a thing happen during the kargil war?

brother, if hindus were so cruel, why would your ancestors chose a hindu dominated india as their home?  just think it brother.


-------------
http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 3:28am

Dear s666 I have many contradictions with your approaches which we have been discussed in this forum some time ago e.g. you are asking again that why not Hindu & Pundits in Our Kashmir if u remember I replied you and at that time you were almost  to concur with my approach.

 

What I understand from your all of discussion under this topic that trying to prove this only that Kashmir future will very well if it go India my friend why are you forgetting  that India occupy the Kashmir by cheating. Should I have remind you again that what was India promised in 5th January 1949 before UNO with the Kashmiri people & many times this promised was repeated by the Indian leadership in the early years as can be seen in the Mr. Jawar Lal Neru (late) letter to Pakistani counterpart in 1953 in which he was very clearly repeated his promise regarding of Kashmir Plebisite. Dear this is hard truth that India have never ever a right to rule on Kashmir against their will, but they rule by aggression.I dont want to repeat the same things which I have been already discussed with you before some time if you wish you can again visit below link

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5930 - www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5930  

Please keep differentiate between terrorist and freedom fighter. You many time use the term of terrorist about the Kashmiries they are not terrorist but freedom fighter, they are terrorize by the Indian army. 

 

Secondly you are afraid if Kashmir come as independent state then may Taliban like people come.

My fried honestly I invite you that come and we pray together with who, is the founder of earth and sky who is the real ruler of every thing that Taliban like people rule on Kashmir.

Let me ask some question?

Are you want Justice in society?

Then lets come Taliaban to rule here they have ideology of justice and they have dare to implement the justice in practical shape.

Do you want to end of discrimination in between the societies like higher class, middle class, lower class?

Then we have to adopt the Taliban ideology as they provide us an example to eliminate these classes in Afghan society which was the most complicated society because there war lords were ruling.

Dear you raise the concern that Taliban demolish the temple etc. in Afghanistan. Do you now how many people were going to worship these places. If you have acknowledge you reply will no. So if no body was going to worship on these temple they demolished the these temple not for this that these belong from Buddhist but they were useless.  Second thing this was the Taliban tertiary in their own territory if they find any thing which has no use then they can destroy no one has a right to ask why.

My friend if you look the Taliban ruling time in Afghanistan with the neutral way without keeping the double standard glass on your eyes you will find it was exemplary & remarkable in case of peace, self-honor, safety point of view and many of others fields like complete termination of poisoning seed posth (sorry my mind memory is not giving me the proper English word for this)

If you remember in last days of Taliban regime there were two westerns journalists who were abducted there & when they were release they were very inspired by the Taliban moral values & their way of dealing which they were also expressed very openly before media.

Taliban regime was a example for the third world who are always ready to surrender in front of the USA and its great allay IMF & W.B. But unfortunately they have little lack of knowledge about the world politics & they were not success to show the little flexibility on right time.



Posted By: Duende
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 3:32am
Brothers, PLEASE stand back from the accepted 'final solution': WAR.

Please take a look at the world and see; Where has WAR ever
provided a solution to anything? War feed the pockets of the
immoral, it provides nothing but pain. When war is over, there are
always problems remaining and unsolved and buried resentments.
War has three primary victims: the truth, women and children. This is
a fact. With the death of each soldier comes the everlasting grief of a
mother; she remains a victim for the rest of her life.

I agree the Kashmir 'question' is complicated and I don't see the two
sides coming to a solution soon. But to see the final solution as war,
is to be handicapped by an extremely narrow vision. War is in fact
the EASY 'solution', dialogue, acceptance and effort are all as difficult
as saying 'sorry'. So much easier to just pull the trigger.


Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 5:12am

"I agree the Kashmir 'question' is complicated and I don't see the two sides coming to a solution soon".

Being a Kashmiri i would like to tell u that Kashmir problem is not so complicated as they made, this is actually a propaganda that Kashmir problem is very complicated such kind of things highly propagated by those powers who wants the status quo position of Kashmir.

Just if India & Pakistan withdrawals their armies from the Kashmir land and plebiscite should arrange under the neutral countries or UNO for a Kashmiri people as India & Pakistan agreed in UNO before and give decision power to the Kashmiri people what they want about their future?

Whether they want to Join Pakistan or they want to go in favor of India or they want to come as an independent state. Whatever the majority will decide everyone should accept according to the Sub-continent division formula which was disclosed in 3rd June 1947.

Brothers, PLEASE stand back from the accepted 'final solution': WAR.


I do not know who was give the statement in favor of war but i do agree that its seem impossible to get independence without war especially such kind of circumstances where the occupier closed all doors for talk and try to oppress the people by bullet even i believe negotiation is the best way for the solution of any problem.



Posted By: Muhammad77
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 10:23am

WAR causes destruction, damage, loss of lives. 

BUT it is my opinion that if any side wants to gain total control of Kashmir, how can that be possible by negotiations? No side is ready to hand over Kashmir to the other side.

The negotiations have just been dragging the Kashmir issue since about the past 50 years, without any solution. People have been dying on both sides of the border. Have negotiations helped to calm the situation? No. The situation gets tense and worse day by day.

 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 8:54pm

 

brother Whisper, i never said pakistan is india's enemy nor i posted this topic against muslims. 

My post didn't imply anything of the sort.

there are millitant hindus and muslims who do not want us to be peaceful. come to india and you will find as many masjids as there are temples.

I am often in India and am quite at ease about understanding India. 


just go to indian kashmir and see for yourself how people are treated. no kashmiri helps a terrorist. when i said kashmir will turn into another taleban in regard to its poor people.  poverty breeds unethical behaviour.

 

If poverty breeds such behaviour then we would have a huge problem in India with or without the Kashmiris. Poverty is used as a mere excuse and almost as a lid to keep the truth from oozing out in the open, by our civilised masters.

Injustice and militaristic arrogance breeds terrorism.

 

Brother, weren't they okay before we turned the Kashmiri into an enemy?

then what did hindus or buddhists do in afghanistan?  why were those temples and monastries destroyed? 

How shall we hold what happened in Afghanistan against the poor Kashmiris?

 

this is why i say kashmir will be another taleban. why can't the religion and the state kept separate?

Right now penalising Kashmiris for something they havent as yet done is a bit like Sardar jees hore choopo ganay. Have you heard about that?

 

Right now, its us, the entire global community that has failed them.

We are the culprits. Lets correct ourselves and give them their right, let them exercise their right of self determination. Once, we have done that and they start to misbehave with us then we would all get together and beat them up!

 

My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours. The west is keeping these swords hanging over our heads to keep our actual potential in check. Sit up one day, see beyond the interesting headlines and we will find that both the Indians and the Pakistanis have a common enemy.
thank you Whisper for agreeing with me.  i have been saying the same thing in many of my posts.

They have far more than just a few languages, customs or a range of cuisine in common.


these naxallites have to be checked as well.  if naxalites and terrorists join hands, then it will be the worst of situations.

 

My point is that Talibanisation comes in a whole range of colours.

All the countries of the region must grow up and start acting in own best interest. Its in the best interest of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asian States + Iran to form something like the union you described earlier

- with a common friend, Kashmir, in their middle.

 

Brother, Kashmir was an independent sovereign state. The Brits messed it up. I cant tell you here, but I will PM you the secret why the Brits cant stay without messing things up!

 

interesting brother Whisper!

someone comes and occupies the territory and it becomes their own!?

Kashmir was an independent state centuries before Yelderum appeared on the Indian scene. History of Kashmir pre-dates the Muslim arrival in the sub-continent and it was a much bigger state than quite a few others, at one point. It was a whole country.

muslims have been saying that your country, i.e., spain was a muslim country...  why would anyone say such a thing?  wasn't spain
occupied by the muslims?

 

Some Muslims have to learn a few lessons, Spain was never occupied by just the Muslims. The Toledo Effect Muslims, Christians and the Jews ran it jointly. Shall we say, almost, as it was the communities that ran India. The chap in the Lal Qilla was almost like a life President of this union.

 

Kashmir has every right to become an independent state.

brother, who would guarentee the well being of the hindus and buddhists there?

Bhai, that is a very interesting question.

The Buddhists, Hindus and the Muslims lived together in Kashmir for a long time.

Was it a problem before we violated the Kashmiris basic right of self-determination?

 

P o l u t i c i a n s create problems and when people have found each other, they always get together to put p o l u t i c i a n s in their right place.

 

Its a process.

It does take its time, but we must start from somewhere. If ever anything goes wrong, I will personally ask Javed Akhtar, Gulzar or Shabbana Azmi to fix it. You know, India is the only country in the world where people believe more in what Shah Rukh Khan or Aswiriya Rai says than even its Prime Minister!


hindus and buddhists were driven out of pakistan's kashmir and now you want the remaining also to be driven out and the rest of kashmir kept open for the occupation by china?

Nearly 10 million Muslims were driven out of India. Almost a million were killed. Why would anyone drive anyone out in a normal situation?

Is the present situation of turmoil more loveable?

 

We now live in the day of Human Rights and a few other sensitivities. The concept of lands and countries is becoming obsolete. We must strive to create comfy situations for all beings. India is a huge country, make peace with the Kashmiris and then send Aswiriya Rai there. See what happens1

But why should China wish to colonise Kashmir? Specially, when it holds the US to ransom?



Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 8:55pm

" The negotiations have just been dragging the Kashmir issue since about the past 50 years, without any solution. People have been dying on both sides of the border. Have negotiations helped to calm the situation? No. The situation gets tense and worse day by day."

 

You are quite right.



Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 07 September 2006 at 10:07am
brother mohammad, i doubt you.  so dont want to reply to any of your posts.  you sometimes post with good english and some other times feign to be not so good at english.

can a non-muslim be the head of the state of pakistan?  if kashmir were made independent or given to pakistan, people will definitely not be treated equally.


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 07 September 2006 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Whisper

My post didn't imply anything of the sort.


yaar, what do you mean by "My friend, best to befriend all our neighbours.".

Originally posted by Whisper

I am often in India and am quite at ease about understanding India.


thats good brother, hope to meet you one day.

Originally posted by Whisper

If poverty breeds such behaviour then we would have a huge problem in India with or without the Kashmiris. Poverty is used as a mere excuse and almost as a lid to keep the truth from oozing out in the open, by our civilised masters.

Injustice and militaristic arrogance breeds terrorism.


thats good!  that might be the difference.  didn't you hear about Operation Gibraltar?

did you ever go to kashmir brother? (not pakistan's kashmir)

Originally posted by Whisper

How shall we hold what happened in Afghanistan against the poor Kashmiris?


brother, it already happened.  most of the temples in kashmir have been desecrated and their are no non-muslims in pakistan's kashmir.  and kashmiri is spoken by few in pakistan's kashmir.

Originally posted by Whisper

Right now penalising Kashmiris for something they havent as yet done is a bit like Sardar jees hore choopo ganay. Have you heard about that?

Right now, its us, the entire global community that has failed them.

We are the culprits. Lets correct ourselves and give them their right, let them exercise their right of self determination. Once, we have done that and they start to misbehave with us then we would all get together and beat them up!



just look at it brother, you keep calling kashmir and kashmiri all the time.  but who is protecting the kashmiri culture?  when you say kashmiri, i am afraid that you do not include a non-muslim.

Originally posted by Whisper

They have far more than just a few languages, customs or a range of cuisine in common.



Originally posted by Whisper

My point is that Talibanisation comes in a whole range of colours.

All the countries of the region must grow up and start acting in own best interest. Its in the best interest of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asian States + Iran to form something like the union you described earlier

- with a common friend, Kashmir, in their middle.



brother, the problem is india does not have a state religion whereas others do.  the OIC hasn't approved india to be its member though it has the second largest muslim population.  so at one point of time or another, i fear they may desert india.

Originally posted by Whisper

Kashmir was an independent state centuries before Yelderum appeared on the Indian scene. History of Kashmir pre-dates the Muslim arrival in the sub-continent and it was a much bigger state than quite a few others, at one point. It was a whole country.


brother, do you know what "Kashmir" means?  why does anyone call that part of the world "Kashmir"?

Originally posted by Whisper

Bhai, that is a very interesting question.

The Buddhists, Hindus and the Muslims lived together in Kashmir for a long time.

Was it a problem before we violated the Kashmiris basic right of self-determination?



if someone violated something, why should be the natives murdered?  aren't the buddhists and hindus kashmiris?  why should their temples be desecrated?

Originally posted by Whisper

It does take its time, but we must start from somewhere. If ever anything goes wrong, I will personally ask Javed Akhtar, Gulzar or Shabbana Azmi to fix it. You know, India is the only country in the world where people believe more in what Shah Rukh Khan or Aswiriya Rai says than even its Prime Minister!


i love india!

Originally posted by Whisper

Nearly 10 million Muslims were driven out of India. Almost a million were killed. Why would anyone drive anyone out in a normal situation?

Is the present situation of turmoil more loveable?



brother, partition was really a bad thing.  but seriously, were muslims alone?  what about the hindus and sikhs?  yet there are more muslims in india than in pakistan.  by the way did you see amir khan starrer "Sarfarosh"?

Originally posted by Whisper

We now live in the day of Human Rights and a few other sensitivities. The concept of lands and countries is becoming obsolete. We must strive to create comfy situations for all beings. India is a huge country, make peace with the Kashmiris and then send Aswiriya Rai there. See what happens1

But why should China wish to colonise Kashmir? Specially, when it holds the US to ransom?



brother, now i live far away from kashmir in the heart of india where people live peacefully.  here you need not be from a particular community to do a particular thing.  but whenever i hear about kashmir in the news, i feel ashamed.

pakistan has already given some of kashmir to china.


-------------
http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 08 September 2006 at 10:41am

Both the countries know very well that the third party {US} is in advantage and it does not want us to finalise something. 

The most interesting thing is that even a panwala in Dilli or a Lahori chatwala knows that, but somehow our lidders interests lie elsewhere!

You and me talk of numerous solutions and suppose even if we come to a final one its of no use. They enjoy blood shed at both the sides.

Brother, no one enjoys bloodshed. Its just that the vested interests make huge profits in wars. We need to counter that through thorough informal education.

A pakistani family who visited our neighbours, said the same, that its the media which is fanning the hatred amongst both the countries.

Media survives with Crown patronage. Those in power supply its bread n butter. Lets set up our own full time Peace Media. In this day and age we dont really need huge printing presses to place anything in the public domain. We can start a small web based group, which is convinced that we have no better option than peace.

 

I remember, once I was at a conference. I propose peace between these two neighbours. It was a time of hot irons on the both sides. My suggestion was simple lets denounce arms on both the sides and IF we dont find it more profitable for our people we can always get or laathis out and start bashing one n other!

That family had a school going boy who spent his time with us. Naturally we had a good bond of friendship. Before he left us we asked him, "When will u b back Khurram?" We all were awstruck by his answer. He said, " I will return India only as a soldier"

Poor Khurram! He didnt know that there are far better things than soldiering in our world.

Teaching just as an example.

Am not blaming any country men but what i want to say is we achieved nothing except HATRED with those white collar meetings. And as "Mohammed" suggested war is the solution--------, But i feel no. It again spreads hatred for muslims in India.

I respect Mohammad. I hold him very dear, he is one the finest Kashmiris I have met in my years. What option has the great civilised community left him other than to believe that war is the only way out?

Its happening that during any of the blasts or even a small incidents occur, innocent muslims are put in jails naming then as "Terrorist". May be one amongst 50 is a wrong person but the rest 49 are put in jails with the same proofs and verifications. 

I should think, one out of 500 Indian Muslims would behave in any odd way.

Lets leave this issue for some more years and the coming generations will forget it. 

Yaar, you mean our Masters will let us forget bones of contention thrown by them?

"Being neighbours thodi bahoth khit- pit tho jayaz hai"

It may be jayez for some Amjad Khans, the Indians have been living in comfort with each other for a thousand years. If we shoot all lidders on both sides the truth will come out that people are basically people and they want a bit of peace at the end of their days toil.

The Lidders keep the lid on this truth.

Also Hats Off to the knowledge of our member "Whisper" . Being from a different place he has got a very deep knowledge of India.

Thanks for your compliment, but India is the biggest reality in my street?



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 23 September 2006 at 2:27am
Where have all the Kashmir lovers gone?


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 06 October 2006 at 9:18am
you haven't answered my post Whisper bhai... (last post in page 2)


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: skygazer
Date Posted: 06 October 2006 at 8:53pm
Here's a silly suggestion: why not have the people who live there vote on what kind of country they want?

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Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 07 October 2006 at 6:21am
Originally posted by skygazer

Here's a silly suggestion: why not have the people who live there vote on what kind of country they want?


you yourself say that its a silly suggestion.  few islamic countries have an elected government.  then whats the meaning of 'vote'?


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 12 October 2006 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by s666

hi everyone!

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.  this has been the trend all the time.  one cannot part it in the name of religion.

If we use millennia time frame, it drops in Mahmud Ghazanvi's era, so it should be part of Afghanistan



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 9:19pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by s666

hi everyone!

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.  this has been the trend all the time.  one cannot part it in the name of religion.

If we use millennia time frame, it drops in Mahmud Ghazanvi's era, so it should be part of Afghanistan



i did not say millenium, i said millenia.

afghanistan was an indian territoty.  look at the history of afghanistan.


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by s666

hi everyone!

i personally feel that it should be a part of india.  it is of course my personal opinion.  i feel so because kashmir has been a part of india for millennia and india does not give any preference to a particular religion.  this has been the trend all the time.  one cannot part it in the name of religion.

If we use millennia time frame, it drops in Mahmud Ghazanvi's era, so it should be part of Afghanistan



i did not say millenium, i said millenia.

You:afghanistan was an indian territoty.  look at the history of afghanistan. Me: Not since the advent of Islam. And yes in the days of Mogul Emperor Aurangzeb, what does that prove?


millennium

n. pl. millennia (-ln-) or millenniums
  1. A span of one thousand years.
  2. A thousand-year period of holiness mentioned in Revelation 20, during which Jesus and his faithful followers are to rule on earth.
  3. A hoped-for period of joy, serenity, prosperity, and justice.
  4. A thousandth anniversary.

Seems like you are beating about the bush, or trying to go all the way back to stone age of the subcontinent to make some point. Blurt it instead  of getting into  semantics.

Other than the sycophants of the Israeli/New East India Companies& Multi nationals, most Indians are living in poverty as if the stone age wasn't that far away.
You can argue till the cows come home, the sutuation on the ground is not what it was in 1947 Kashmir. Then the Kashmiris were timid in bondage and afraid to handle a gun in deep slumber than what they are now.
Hindus were in cahoots with Radcliffe, who bribed him for the passage to paradise on earth which turned out to be hell for occupation thugs. I don't know you are old enough to know the facts.

I see Jinnah was st**id or acted like one who got duped with Radcliffe's lopsided award. He was blind or in drunken stupor to the significance of the district of Gurdaspur which was Muslim majority area and be part of the Pakistan Award. It was akin to a case of not reporting to police after getting gang raped.

IMHO based on info I got less people would have gotten killed if there was an all out war. And the final outcome would have created a map which everybody could live with. What you have instead rampent corruption and lack of respect for law n order in both countries.

How in dirty politics of partition such a big country, Jinnah who trusted Brit's like angels could get a fair shake? when Jwahr Lal Nehru was having an affair with one of them angels Lady Mountbatten. And it was no state secret if some one likes to know.

To make the things worse 2 Gujratis(Gandhi the sly one&Patel the killer snake ) against a single  Gujrati( JInnah) Not fair

The number of hapless Muslims who escaped from other areas in Punjab thinking they were in the safe zone considering Gurdaspur part of Pakistan who got massacred, looted, or raped is in millions.

It was a double whammy for new nation and it's ignorant masses.
1. Transfer of the most strategic area of Pakistani to India and no issue could be made.
2. The Holocaust of the unsuspecting migrants and local people in Gurdaspur.
3. The passage for Indian occupation force was facilitated unhindered.

I grant you bribing of  Radcliffe may not be immoral according to Hindu Politics considering if they can shoot their BAPO later on, what was the big deal about a district or two snaching away in the loot.
You know it was to let Indians find out that payback is hell. 
The Indian conspired and cheated so they have occupation monkey on their shoulders.
Do you ever hear Kashmiri fighting against Pakistan?
 Isn't that good enough argument against Indian occupation?
And finally India acting like brown colonisers over Kashmiris, trying to copy the Anglo sexon masters will never pan out.

Ask your new masters, cronies & partners in crime about the Afghanistan experience. Or Indians have joined them already
Your 500,000 armed thugs have not been able to cow poor  n unarmed Kashmiris speaks volumes about the capabilities of Indian occupiers.
All I know what our boss gave on his farewell and it reads:
"Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: skygazer
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 12:54pm

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Seems like you are beating about the bush, or trying to go all the way back to stone age of the subcontinent to make some point. Blurt it instead  of getting into  semantics.

Look at his "response" to my suggestion. This guy isn't interested in discussion. He's what we call a "troll": "a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people."

Good article on these idiots:

http://hometown.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm - http://hometown.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

They're everywhere; it's why I almost never post on any forum anymore. But a lot of people here have good things to say, so I drop in to read



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Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 7:53am
Originally posted by skygazer

Look at his "response" to my suggestion. This guy isn't interested in discussion. He's what we call a "troll": "a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people."


"You're probably wondering why I'm here,
And so am I, so am I."
                      Frank Zappa

they gel well for you... don't they?


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Me: Not since the advent of Islam. And yes in the days of Mogul Emperor Aurangzeb, what does that prove?


brother, world did not start in the 7th century.

what does it prove?  the same thing you were trying to prove by saying, "If we use millennia time frame, it drops in Mahmud Ghazanvi's era, so it should be part of Afghanistan"

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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Me: Not since the advent of Islam. And yes in the days of Mogul Emperor Aurangzeb, what does that prove?


brother, world did not start in the 7th century.

what does it prove?  the same thing you were trying to prove by saying, "If we use millennia time frame, it drops in Mahmud Ghazanvi's era, so it should be part of Afghanistan"


Hey quit trolling-- Did I say the world start in the 7th century? If you know a new calendar did start though unless you feign ignorance like a typical bania.

You chickened out to address the other related issues mentioned.

Back to millenia argument say  Mauryan Ashoka Empire 250 BC then Pakistan, Bangladesh, part of Afghanistan, Iran should be sucked back in the Indian hegemony if possible by any means. rats

BTW don't hold you breath, your face may turn blue rather blackish.
Your Karma is goin horrible forget about Kashmir right now.

 Rx http:// -
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0628_040628_ tvrats.htm
head to Karni Mata Temple and feed n worship the ugliest rat for  forty days and nights; sleep only if the rats clear enough room for you,




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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: skygazer
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 5:42pm

Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by skygazer

Look at his "response" to my suggestion. This guy isn't interested in discussion. He's what we call a "troll": "a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people."


"You're probably wondering why I'm here,
And so am I, so am I."
                      Frank Zappa

they gel well for you... don't they?

"Just as much as you're wondering about me being in this place,
That's just how much I marvel at the lameness on your face."

Choke on that.



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Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 5:15am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader



Back to millenia argument say  Mauryan Ashoka Empire 250 BC then Pakistan, Bangladesh, part of Afghanistan, Iran should be sucked back in the Indian hegemony if possible by any means. rats

BTW don't hold you breath, your face may turn blue rather blackish.
Your Karma is goin horrible forget about Kashmir right now.

 Rx http:// -
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/06/0628_040628_ tvrats.htm
head to Karni Mata Temple and feed n worship the ugliest rat for  forty days and nights; sleep only if the rats clear enough room for you,




aren't there any moderators here?

interesting!

let me show you something which i found http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6070744.stm - here .

"For us, someone who goes on holiday to Pakistan several times raises questions," he told Reuters News Agency.

so just be careful


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http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: s666
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 5:16am
Originally posted by skygazer

Originally posted by s666

Originally posted by skygazer

Look at his "response" to my suggestion. This guy isn't interested in discussion. He's what we call a "troll": "a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people."


"You're probably wondering why I'm here,
And so am I, so am I."
                      Frank Zappa

they gel well for you... don't they?

"Just as much as you're wondering about me being in this place,
That's just how much I marvel at the lameness on your face."

Choke on that.







-------------
http://www.donthefilm.com/ - Don - The Chase Begins Again (Diwali/Eid 2006)


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by s666

let me show you something which i found http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6070744.stm - here .

"For us, someone who goes on holiday to Pakistan several times raises questions," he told Reuters News Agency.

so just be careful


You would think an irrelavant Paris baggage handler's case will get you off the hook against you advocating on behalf of the Indian beasts roving in Kashmir!

You mean " just be  careful"  OK I will be when I knock some sense into chickenhead Hindu mentality.
If loss of livelihood of four Frenchmen of African ancestry gives you cause to celebrate cos of their religion and point of travels; I say look in the mirrior and say out loud that you are an ugliest bigot in the whole world.

Babu's soul is crying for what despicable vermins he gave his life to be free who spew hate n spread misery around instead of peace and harmony.

The
militarisation of the poor subcontinent and fracturing Pakistan into military dictatorship rests to a greater extent on Indian's dirty politics of Hindutva and their ilk's shoulders. And you are a living proof of it

Hey Now stick with your BELOVED KASHMIR thread and while burning with hate look @

MASSACRE OF KASHMIRI SIKHS

http:// - http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/ka03025.html
Muslims are not the only victims



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: raushan
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 2:21am
Hate to a particular person or community or a govt will bring nothing but disasters,killing.
 
if kashmir muslims are killed by ''hindu govt"
what you suggest abt the killing of taliban and balooch rebels by Islamic republics.


Posted By: raushan
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 2:25am
there are muslims and kashmiri offcourse who has their vested interest in kashmir insurgency..
 
earning billions from worldwide in the name of freedom struggle goes un audited
or it has become easiest way to get asylum in western (so called anti islamic )countries, proving  attrocities done by indian govt to the British and American govts,who already doing the sam in Iraque.
 
why these british or us govt gives you shelter and kill Iraqis.
 
this is not the religion but interests which guides the policy makers..
 


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 8:37am

There has been many instances of violation of guidelines in this thread. If you want the discussion to continue, go back and read the guidelines first, and comply, otherwise, the thread will be considered for closure.

 



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by raushan

Hate to a particular person or community or a govt will bring nothing but disasters,killing.
 
if kashmir muslims are killed by ''hindu govt"
what you suggest abt the killing of taliban and balooch rebels by Islamic republics.


I gave my opinion based on the  information I have about the background of issue which is not known to many in the subcontinent or who knew shoved under the carpet.
I posted in response to s666's sly approach to justify his side.
I would say there is a right way and there is a wrong way, as you can not build a house on a bad and unclarified soil and shoddy foundation; the people will die in when the house collapses. If there is no value for human lives lost then there is no debate, everybody is a loser in the long run.
It is too late to fix the damage; cheating and corruption started with partition has become the nature of the most people. They know if the leaders got away so could they, so there are some predators and the rest prey. This is how you see the believers from the disbelievers.
Islamic Republic ; you must be kidding What am I doing sitting here?
With a  dictator and his drunk cohorts what do you expect ?

8:53 "Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."
Bro just pray; what will be; will be


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 9:58pm

There has been many instances of violation of guidelines in this thread. If you want the discussion to continue, go back and read the guidelines first, and comply, otherwise, the thread will be considered for closure.

Brother if our grand sub-continentals just knew how to behave with humans and each other instead of breast beating about dharti (land) they would not have made a mince meat out of one the most beautiful countries in the world.  



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 October 2006 at 10:59pm

Hate to a particular person or community or a govt will bring nothing but disasters, killing.

 

Dear Raushan bibi or Raushan bhai,

I am waiting for you to also throw some of your limited edition raushani (light) on what does denying basic and fundamental rights to humans brings?

 

what you suggest abt the killing of taliban and balooch rebels by Islamic republics.

I have just come back after meeting a whole range of Afghan and Baluch sardars. Kindly, dont shed any tears on our behalf. We know how to put some Bush or any Mush where they belong. Today, both are licking their wounds. The poor Brits are trying to blame anything for their plight.

 

Please just throw some raushani on why you dont allow the poor, docile, noble featured artistic Kashmiris to decide how they wish to live?

 

Just please answer that question.

If you go hither and thither then be prepared with all the questions I hold for you not just about the Nagas, but a whole range of freedom movements going on right this very minute in India.

 

Sorry, you said something about Islamic Republic. Have you found one? Mail me their location, I will leave this afternoon.



Posted By: raushan
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 4:31am
yes,kashmiris must be allowed to live as they want...totally agree
 
wassalam
Allah hafiz


Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 7:19am
Roshan Wrote:
yes,kashmiris must be allowed to live as they want...totally agree
 
wassalam
Allah hafiz
 

It means you are giving the favor to Kashmiri people for their right of self-determination for whom they are striving since long time. I guess you were waiting for good doze from br. Whisper to come on the proper track.

 

But prior of your above statement you made the below quoted statement which is containing the baseless information and cheaper way of talking. Neither I can expect the tune which you apply in the below statement from a reasonable person nor this is the right of any person to measure our freedom struggle in this way. I hope next time you will not adopt such kind of awkward way to explain any sentiment.

 
 
Roshan previous statment ''earning billions from worldwide in the name of freedom struggle goes un audited or it has become easiest way to get asylum in western (so called anti islamic ) countries, proving  attrocities done by indian govt to the British and American govts,who already doing the sam in Iraque.
 
this is not the religion but interests which guides the policy makers..''


Posted By: raushan
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 7:25am
thnk u sir,
I ll follow your suggestions.
 
 


Posted By: Shery
Date Posted: 31 October 2006 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by mohammad

  You pose a question about the future of Kashmir which is well known as  " Heaven of the Earth" but unfortunatley rightnow burning in the fire. In my opinion first of all India & Pakistan withdraw their armies then they give us right of selfdetermination where we can decide about our future. If we get the chance of right of self determination my vote will go in favor of an independent Kashmir.

 

 

I believe that kashmir should be independent

and Let the people there decide their own destiny



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Posted By: mohammad
Date Posted: 01 November 2006 at 12:53am

I believe that kashmir should be independent

and Let the people there decide their own destiny

 

This is the point for that we are fighting and more than hundred of thousand youngstars have been given their lif and thanks for your good wishes for our indenpendence.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 01 November 2006 at 2:39am

I believe that kashmir should be independent and Let the people there decide their own destiny

Why should this loveable principle not apply to every person on our planet?



Posted By: rememberallah
Date Posted: 31 July 2012 at 12:31pm
In islam we can not ask separation from our madu {to whom we have to deliver our message of islam and get them to islam} that is our first duty as muslims....those who have forgotten it and are betraying Allah ask for separation......the greatest muslims came to india to unite and make them part of Ummah and were so successful that india is second most populous muslim nation due to their efforts.......the lowest of muslims seek to go aeay and look the other way, leave a mark on the heart of our madu so deep that dais can not make inroads to their hearts......i think kashmiris should not ask for independence and live with the rest of muslims in india....religion is no ground for division.....creation of pakistan was a big mistake that took the two communities {hindus and muslims} oceans apart though they live next door......indian army entered kashmir in this fashion after 1989 when violence was started in the name of independence and kashmiri hindus were killed and their property taken and their women raped by us muslims, and majority of them still live in exile and remember their ancestral home in which now some muslim family is living.....
why what will they get? what did pakistan get? how can we leave our madu?? even if our madu is negative towards us we have to remain positive towards them for the sake of Allah.....that Allah wants us to get them to islam, as muslims we know Allah is our God just as He is theirs, how can we let creatures of Allah go to hell?
Quran is witness -  when prophet musa sought separation from his madu Allah made him wander for 40 yrs in wilderness.....when prophet yunus sought separation from his madu Allah put him in the belly of the whale for 40 days........today we muslims are seeking separation from our madu everywhere and see how we are in the wilderness and in the belly of the whale.
Prophet Muhammad {pbuh} said at the time of fateh mecca "today i will be like my brother Yusuf"....when will we muslims say that today we will be like the one whom prophet Muhammad {pbuh} became??
Quran is witness, time is witness to Quran, and Allah is witness over the time- Prophet Yusuf's story started in the belly of the whale ie in troubles of all kinds, attempt to murder, enslavement, false rape charges, unjust imprisonment by the non-muslim king......but his act of running the khilafat ie not seeking separation but well for his unjust madu, even in his slavery to non-muslim masters took him out of the belly of the whale ie his troubles and restored him his honor.....truly honor and dishonor is in Allah's hands.
When will the eyes of us muslims open? How has satan took us so far?
may Allah guide us


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The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.



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