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"Prostitution behind the veil"

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Culture & Community
Forum Name: Groups – Women (Sisters)
Forum Discription: Groups – Women (Sisters)
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=639
Printed Date: 30 October 2014 at 9:06pm


Topic: "Prostitution behind the veil"
Posted By: kim!
Subject: "Prostitution behind the veil"
Date Posted: 19 April 2005 at 8:38pm

This program was broadcast in Australian tv last night. Sounds like life is not good in Iran for many people.  :(

http://www.dfi.dk/sitemod/moduler/index_english.asp?pid=21530 - http://www.dfi.dk/sitemod/moduler/index_english.asp?pid=2153 0

Kim...




Replies:
Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 19 April 2005 at 10:37pm

if we begin judging by what we see in films, it will sound that life is not good on Mars etiher and requires immediate intervention of American space-troops in order to restore peace and justice in the solar system... add some colors to life, splash some red in the streets and homes...

MOCKBA



Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 5:41am

I saw this same program on Canadian television about a month ago or so.  I was very upset and saddened.  I guess humans will be humans no matter where they live or what 'religion' they profess - sad, very sad.

Peace, ummziba



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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~


Posted By: ZamanH
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:16am

 

Life is not good for people in India, too. People are poor and many young men take to illegal activities to earn and thus the infrastructure for indulgence in immorality is created.



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An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 5:06pm

Bismillah,

Thank you for the link, Kim.

I didn't make a film, but my friend and I saw evidence of prostitution in Jordan a couple of times.  It was very disheartening. 

May Allah, SWT, guide us all, ISA.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Azadeh
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 11:13pm

We, a group of Iranian students and families in Australia, protest against the SBS policy of regularly broadcasting solely one type of Iranian movies and documentaries that portray Iran as hell; Iranian culture as backward; and the whole nation as a place of hunger, earthquake, immorality, and poverty. We have not seen a single positive piece about Iran broadcast from the Australian media. Most specifically, we hereby express our objection to the broadcasting of the documentary “Prostitution behind the Veil” in The Cutting Edge program on Tuesday 19 April 2005 for the following reasons: 

 

First, the film breaches the ethics of making others your subject. For instance, while the director, Nahid Persson promises the clergyman, the old man and Leila (17-year-old girl) not to record the Sighe (temporary marriage) session, she acts contrary to her promise.

 

Neither should she have shown the faces of people she showed for the second reason that it endangers their lives through publicising their culturally and socially stigmatised behaviour. Besides, as in many countries, in Iran drug abuse and prostitution are illicit acts. We believe that the filmmaker and producers have manipulated the two women and others in the film. 

 

Third, taking two problematic cases from the bottom line end of society with drug and probably psychological problems and generalising it to the whole population distorts the fact that we feel the majority of Iranians definitely practice monogamy and that temporary marriage is culturally and socially unacceptable. 

 

Fourth, portraying Iranian women mainly as victims of social injustice in Iran is itself unjust to the struggle of women and human rights activists in Iran. One instance of the bright side of Iran that we hardly ever witness in media is that 65 percent of all university students are women. Women are increasingly granted scholarship to pursue their higher education in the best universities all around the world. They are also approximately half of working force in education and medical sectors. Further, according to organizations such as World Health Organization (WHO) and UNICEF, the situation of women's health in Iran has significantly improved in the past years. Not only have child mortality rates fallen dramatically, but life expectancy at birth has also increased significantly.

 Iranian female students signing this letter believe that the director who has lived twenty years away from Iran has no authentic right to speak for millions of Iranian women inside due to her poor and simplified analysis of the complexity of life there. 

 

Finally, the issues Iran is usually targeted at are the problems some other countries such as Australia are also confronted with such as illicit drug abuse. Current studies indicate that there is a close relationship between abuse of illicit drugs and some antisocial behaviour such as prostitution and crime (UNODC 2004). Illicit drug users are likely to participate in criminal activities such as burglary or sell sex to obtain enough money for buying their drug of interest. Therefore, singling Iran out in the world and magnifying a minor problem in Iran such as temporary marriage as a widespread practice and a challenging problem for women in Iran is overlooking the strong family ties in Iranian culture while at the same time the audience forgets the routine practice of casual relationships, under age sex or one- night-stands in most countries.

 

Overall, there are two perceptions of Iran with a huge gap between: one is the perception Iranians have of themselves, and the other is how Western audience perceive Iran and Iranians. The material SBS broadcast about Iran is far away from what the majority of Iranians can identify with. It is a version that at best represents a minority of Iranians. We urge SBS to adopt a balanced approach in its depiction of Iran to give a more reasonable and accurate image of this nation in all its complexity. 


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 11:50pm

Azadeh? Have you heard of Orkut? ( http://www.orkut.com - www.orkut.com )

There are some _excellent_ topics there in the Iranian communities, I have learned a lot there.

I _know_ things are not completely dire in Iran, but they aren't that great in many cases. You do realise the guy who beheaded his own daughter in 2002 (when he thought she _might_ have been molested by her uncle) is due out of jail this year?

I'm sorry you've been upset by all of this, but really - if the film-makers are Iranian and the book authors are Iranian, then doesn't that tell us _something_ is going wrong over there?

Kim...



Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 12:02am

And yes, of course countries like Australia have drugs and crime problems and the like, but we are not a country run by a religion claiming to be perfect.

I should elaborate my thoughts on this, but I'm busy. Will be back asap.

Kim...



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 4:53am

Kim,

Did you find a country run by a religion... ? And what is Australia run by?

 



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MOCKBA


Posted By: bissmillah
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 5:40am
Australia is a beutiful and graceful place with many great opportunity but some of us might not be to some point and we have many great and good people and louzy to gooders too you'll find that any where in life or religion for that matter, and most of us aint cold hearted or blind individual either, we are pretty much the neutral side to everything, well Iam anyway!! I cant speak for all australian but I wont pretend that We are all not perfect creatures either. and as for kim she runs her life base on womans right and votes...thats what she had mentioned on her previouse post. not all of us is like her though...

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john16:12-14 U have yet many things to say unto yuo,but Ye cannot bear them now....


Posted By: Azadeh
Date Posted: 09 May 2005 at 7:00pm

Kim

SBS says that Mina and Fariba [two prostitutes in the film] mirror Iranian society. It's [edited]! a dirty lie!

Iranian society is hardly reflected in the movies & documentaries SBS

 shows. I don't say Iran is an ideal country with an ideal government, I say, if somethings are going wrong there, it's not for Westerns to set it right! Iran has enough bright minds to fix things up!

Azadeh!  



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Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 5:56am
From the converstions I have had with Iranians online, Iran has been waiting for a long, long time for it's bright minds to fix things up...and are still waiting. Especially since so many millions of these bright minds left the country a long while ago. Would _you_ go back and live there? Try changing the place by voting in elections...except they're rigged, of course.

I would _love_ to see the place myself!

Kim...




Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 5:36pm

there is nothing more rigged than the artificial world headed by america and her allies... if evidences to get a license to invade a country and bring down unimaginable horror upon its citizens is fabricated what on earth makes you so convinced that your votes are not.

yes there is prostitution in iran, there is theft, there is murder, rape but at least it is not something which is openly practiced and advocated by the government or the media of the country... it is unconditionally forbidden.    

if Iran was given a chance to live and trade without america and her allies barking at its doors, continuously sowinq seeds of discord among its people and meddling with its internal affairs things might have looked different. its amazing how bush and his allies have people's blood to quench their thirst for oil... what lies they are prepared to tell for oil... and Iran happens to have some.

It may be dramatic watching veiled prostitute narrating her sadness and pain... but resorting to the solution she has chosen to ease her condition is not the best option from what could be available... there are lines not to be crossed even in extreme situations.



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MOCKBA


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 6:08pm

Mockba - I agree with you a certain extent - the West can be a Bad Friend, but it must surely also be true that many of Iran's problems have been brought upon themselves. I mean, _who_ demanded the revolution? Who let the Ayatollah have that much power?

Kim...



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 6:52pm

You have not mentioned anything that i could deny completely, therefore i can't but agree with you, too. And that is the beauty, i guess, of being able to form a multi-dimensional picture.

Some of Iran's problems are surely brought upon by the country itself, but with active involvement of external forces it is difficult to distinguish who brings up what.

Revolutions are artificial, too. Venezuela, Ukraine, Georgia, Haiti, Indonesia. Power does not need to be always given... sometimes it is taken by force, some times it is stolen but made to appear otherwise.

It is said that during the time of the Dajjal (The False Messiah) appearance will not conform with reality. We can't say we have reached this time with assurance but we are definitely getting closer...



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MOCKBA


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 7:43pm

Hi again,

Look, I _know_ it's not all gloom and doom in Iran and that the West has a fairly bent view of Iran, but from what I have read and people I have spoken to, I really don't think that Iranian people got what they bargained for when they fought for their revolution. It appears that religion was then forced upon them, instead of being something people took up joyfully.

Hopefully human cloning will be perfected during Khatami's lifetime ;) - whatta guy! Iran needs more Khatamis, in my opinion.

Kim...  

 



Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 10:52pm
if i do a biased documentary on raped, beaten, turtored, prostituted & murdered women in America, I could make America look like a place where women are evilly oppressed too.

a lot of times, when foreign news reported my own country (in SEA), they are sometimes biased too, which left me irked. just bcoz some of the people say negative things, doesn't mean most of us think that way. most people are still positive, yet the minorities gets to go on TV & there you have it -- a biased news.


Posted By: Azadeh
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 11:05pm

I thought it's mostly rigged in the States!

of course I'd go back and live there!

How do you know Iran needs more khatamis? 



Posted By: umsami
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 4:28am

A great book on Iran and the Iranian revolution is "Persepolis" by Marjane Satrapi. 

Prostitution is a sad fact of life in 99% of all countries.. .Muslim and non-Muslim.  Women who are uneducated... and/or in a country where women are not welcome in the workforce (seen as taking jobs away from men)... often have nothing else to resort to but selling their bodies.  In countries like Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan... with many war widows... this is a sad reality for many.  It hurts us more as Muslimahs because we know of the internal struggle these women must go through... knowing what they know.  Do I commit zina or do I let my children starve?? Sadly, that is the choice for many.  I have to admit that yes...if that was my choice... I would commit zina.  Period.  And I would do everything in my power to make sure that my daughters had an education so that they would never have to resort to what their Mom did.  I can have sympathy for the women... for the men who patronize these women, I have no sympathy.

All I can say is that I know Allah(swt) is the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious.  I know Allah(swt) is the Most Just.  May Allah(swt) show mercy on these women and help them find a halal way to earn money. 

Peace.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 11:15am

Bismillah,

Women are ill-used in America and the rest of the world, as you say.  That is why we need women leaders to advocate for our needs and the needs of our children and maybe the rest of the family too. (Small businesses for good employment options?)

Let's stand beside the abused in any way we can and Allah, SWT, will bless us! 

Blame the buyer not the seller.  Good point, UmSami.  (Oh, yeah.  The man goes home safely, and the poor woman gets pregnant and in more trouble.)

(UmSami, I guess I don't like my kids as much as you to do that for them!  But since I'm not in that situation, Al-Hamdulilah, I don't like to be arrogant and make assertions for would-be situations.)



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Brother123
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 12:07pm

[Moderator Edited]

Lies and insults will not be tolerated on this forum, read the forum Guidlines beffore posting.Rami.


 



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Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 5:57pm

please, please don't say u rather commit zina.
that's bargaining heaven for a very, very cheap price.
it's not worth it.



Posted By: umsami
Date Posted: 13 May 2005 at 6:36pm

Assalamu Alaikum Firewall:

I guess you've never seen somebody starve to death.  It's not a pretty site at all.  I could not bare to see any of my children starve.  Period.  I would do what was necessary to keep them alive.  Alhamduillilah, I am not in that situation... nor am I without education or the ability to work.  Alhamdullilah.  Not everybody is so lucky.  That's the point of the discussion.

Humanitarian organizations are great... but unfortunately, their reach is very narrow.  In some areas, they are forced to deal with unscrupulous people who restrict access to the aid.  Muslims are supposed to help other Muslims... and Alhamdullilah, some do.  Still, others eat feasts while their neighbors are starving.  Is it what a good Muslim would do?? NO, but it happens all too frequently.

Brother123... you're very misinformed on a lot of issues.  Are you only 5 or 6 years old... or are you so ignorant that you believe everything you read on the Internet and see on TV??  You shouldn't be insulting our Shi'a Muslim Brothers and Sisters... You shouldn't be insulting people of the Book... of whom whose morals you know nothing about.  You can't make generalized statements like that, because reality is that they do not apply.  Just as All Muslims are Not Terrorists.  Grow up.

Oh, and I've read St. Augustine...and there is nothing about priests allowing prostitution.

Peace.

 



Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 15 May 2005 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by umsami

Assalamu Alaikum Firewall: I guess you've never seen somebody starve to death.


I learn we just have to trust Allah...


Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 4:39am

Assalamu alaikum,

Al hamdulillah!  That is a very inspiring story, Firewall.  I, too, believe very much in the power of sincere prayer and that Allah does answer sincere prayers (sometimes in the most unexpected ways!).  It is really a matter of putting all of your faith in Allah.

I said in a much earlier post that the movie "Prostitution Behind The Veil" was very sad.  I believe it was sad because the people in it resorted to sin to "survive".  This kind of survival is not survival at all, only a sure way to everlasting condemnation in the Hereafter.  The life of this world is only fleeting, it is the Hereafter that counts - putting all our trust in Allah and worshipping Him sincerely is the true way to survive.

Peace, ummziba.



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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~


Posted By: UmTayyab
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 12:51pm

Kim, please don't keep pasting all these terrible stories about peoples heinous sins.  First of all you are spreading gossip as you have not witnessed these events yourself, secondly, you have not verified these events from Islamically reliable sources, and thirdly, even if you had witnessed them, it is not Islamically correct to broadcast them. 

Islam doesn't allow for the revealing of one's sins until the punishment phase (after clear testimony and judgement by a qualified Muslim judge), and then only for the warning to the people not to repeat such a sin, and Islam doesn't allow the terrorizing of the population by such horrific stories.  When these attrocities and sins occur, it is not "freedom of the press, the people have a right to the truth" mantra, it is Islamically correct to protect the society from these horrors, and to prosecute the criminals quietly.

Don't spread such fitna to potential millions, you are focusing on the negative actions of people who happen to be muslim.  Let the communities deal with their own criminals.  What do you think you can do about it?  What do you think we can do about it?  You are only exciting and planting ideas in the minds of those who are weak and diseased.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 1:59pm

Bismillah,

UmTayyab,

I disagree with you.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 8:11pm

Umtayyab, I respect your position, but if people never talk about anything, how will anyone learn? How do we protect these women and their families if no one ever talks about anything?

Surely Islamic law says that these women should be whipped or killed - when really what they need is love, care, education and protection.

If we don't talk - these women may die. If people DO talk, then maybe we can save others from such dire situations.

Education involves talking.

Kim...



Posted By: UmTayyab
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 7:15am

What do you think you can do for them?  What do you think I can do for them?  Are you gonna get on a plane and go over there and find them and help them?

They have choice.  They know their society will punish them, they know they are committing a heinous sin against themselves and society. 

Surely Islamic law says that these women should be whipped or killed - when really what they need is love, care, education and protection.

Islamic Law is the Law God made, and no one has the authority to challenge it.  You think you know what Allah does not know?  You think you are smarter than the One who created you and your mother?

People have choice.  And there are consequences to choosing what is against what Allah has made permissible.  If the society turns a blind eye to sin, then the whole society suffers the punishment and the consequences.  The society which does it's best to deter (PUNISH!, NOT BEG!) sin is innocent of the sins which individuals commit.  These women are destroying marriages, spreading disease, bringing unstable children into the society (no stable family, no responsible father...).  If they are poor and alone, let them marry.

Islam teaches us that the unborn have rights over their parents.  It is the right of a woman's children who have not even been concieved yet that their mother chooses for them the best possible father and ensure to her best ability that they have a stable home and family (within a marriage!), and that they both provide for them out of what Allah has deemed their risque (their provision in life, rich, poor, healthy, weak, what is preordained for them before their birth). And it is the right of a man's children who have not even been concieved yet that their father chooses for them the best possible mother and ensure to his best ability that they have a stable home and family, and that they both provide for them out of what Allah has deemed their risque.

These women are denying their unborn children their rights.  These women are taking husbands and money from deserving women who keep their chastity and maintain the rights of their children (causing divorce due to infidelity, malcontentness with the chaste wife, distancing the hearts that are covered in lies and deception...).  These women are infecting society with disease of the body and disease of the mind and disease of the heart, and poisoning the iman of those who are not strong enough to fight their evil desires.  When it's "in your face", it is hard to turn away from if a person's iman is weak.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 9:48am

Bismillah,

As usual, the women are being blamed.  It is the men's fault and responsibility.  They are seeking pleasure; the women are making a lving. Besides, they are engaging in temporary marriages, which in their sect is not haram. 

They are not harming society.  They are a part of a huge problem that was there when they entered society.  Society should help them.  But maybe there are too many men who don't want a change to happen.

Maybe someone will help them because of a documentary.  Maybe when my kids grow up, I will.  Who knows?  And I heard about them here.  Hmmm.  People do care.  People will help.

And it's easy for a known loose woman with children to find a good, kind husband to support her and the kids??? Any takers guys?  (I mean, if she promises to be good and stop prostituting herself.)



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: UmTayyab
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 10:06am
Originally posted by herjihad

Bismillah,

 Besides, they are engaging in temporary marriages, which in their sect is not haram. 

It IS haram, sectarian biddah does not make what is haram halal.  These women are not stupid, they know what they do is prostitution and not marriage.

Go over there then and let them wipe your face in the dirt when they finish taking all you have to give.  I have tried to help many young girls before I was Muslim, girls who used prostitution and stripping to pay for their food, rent, partying, drugs, men, toys, extravagance... and not one of them ever wanted to improve herself beyond getting better more expensive clothes, longer wigs, flashier fingernails and cooler designer drugs. 

You don't understand the psychology of a prostitute.  They enjoy the attention, the quick money and the high.  But go ahead, you'll learn this soon enough.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 10:52am

Bismillah,

In their area it is not haram.  They grew up with the idea of temporary marriages, and that is how their society views it.  Ask, investigate.

Supporting their kids and themselves is far different from the women you've known who are misguided by the god of materialism. 

 Your experiences are different than the women in other countries depicted in the original posted article here.  Open your mind and learn something new.  Someone with your experiences could really contribuite if you had a more open mind and more knowledge. (I'm not a sarcastic person.  Please don't take it the wrong way.)



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 26 May 2005 at 4:39pm

Blimey, UmTayyab, you must have huge shoulders - that chip you're carrying appears to be enormous!

What are you scared of seeing if you open your heart a little too see the grey areas of life, instead of just the black and white bits?

Life is NOT that simple, even if you demand it should be.

The women in this documentary (or any of the other Iranian docos I have seen) are not flashy whores who live for newer, shinier toys or thre newest, groovy drugs, they are poor women whose only hopes appear to be taking care of their children AND still appearing to be the caring, house-bound mothers they are expected to be, and some of them seem to manage to eke out an existance by getting a temporary marriage with someone they don't necessarily love, but at least he might take care of them so they don't have to work any more.

Kim...



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 27 May 2005 at 5:30am

Bismillah,

Good points, Kim.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 2:55am
Originally posted by UmTayyab

  These women are destroying marriages, spreading disease, bringing unstable children into the society (no stable family, no responsible father...).  If they are poor and alone, let them marry.

 

I'm sorry - WHAT?

In a society where men get to have multiple wives (and, therefore NO reason to visit prostitutes), where men are the ones who have all the power, where men have all the money and where men have all the choices - WHO are destroying marriages?

WHO?

WHO pays the women? WHO gets to do what they want? WHO gets women to do what they want?

 

WHO??????

The women do NOT destroy marriages - men destroy the world.

 

Kim...



Posted By: MayPB
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 12:34am

Life is not good if there is no DEMOCRACY.  The Koran demands secularism.




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