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Israeli opposition to Lebanon war

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Regional
Forum Name: Middle East
Forum Discription: Middle East
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6040
Printed Date: 03 September 2014 at 12:14am


Topic: Israeli opposition to Lebanon war
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Subject: Israeli opposition to Lebanon war
Date Posted: 22 July 2006 at 5:59pm
Last week we were 50 people being spat on and beaten by Tel Aviv Police
Four days ago we were 600 under police protection and today we walked
from Rabin Square to the Cinematheque 5000 strong. Nasrallahs
Missiles are landing in Haifa killing Jews and Muslims and Christians with
out any agenda of their own they are by definition and the origin of the
word ballistic. As Muslims I need not tell you the horrors that are going
on in Lebanon. Those of you in America Canada England and the west in
general.
As much as spme may personally want to see Nasrallah's head on a pole.
I know that my beloved country with the help of George Bush are doing
more to promote Terrorism than The Hamas AlQuida Jihad Islami and the
Hezbollah combined.

What you may not know is: Prior to the kidnappings of those three poor
kids by Hezbollah and Hamas, We enjoyed 16 months of peace from both
the Hamas and Hezbollah. In that time we ran raids extra judicial
liquidations kidnappings and murder not so surgical assasinations.
Scores of Palestinian children and militants are killed daily.

Demonstrate against this war. Bush's people wants a confrontation
between Syria and Israel and they think they can win control of this
region through military force. The more these people suffer in Lebanon
the more Nasrallah grows in Popularity.



Replies:
Posted By: kRaZyXmAn
Date Posted: 23 July 2006 at 12:59am
Please view my video in the Current Events section and learn all the truth.  Any attacks by any middle easterns against israel is in direct response to their initial aggression, therefore it is israel that is responsible for creating the environment that breeds aggressive retaliation by people who before Israel was ever formed, lived in true peace and harmony with their Jewish and Christian neighbors


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 23 July 2006 at 7:48pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Last week we were 50 people being spat on and beaten by Tel Aviv Police
Four days ago we were 600 under police protection and today we walked
from Rabin Square to the Cinematheque 5000 strong. Nasrallahs
Missiles are landing in Haifa killing Jews and Muslims and Christians with
out any agenda of their own they are by definition and the origin of the
word ballistic. As Muslims I need not tell you the horrors that are going
on in Lebanon. Those of you in America Canada England and the west in
general.
As much as may personally want to see Nasrallah's head on a pole.
I know that my beloved country with the help of George Bush are doing
more to promote Terrorism than The Hamas AlQuida Jihad Islami and the
Hezbollah combined.

What you may not know is: Prior to the kidnappings of those three poor
kids by Hezbollah and Hamas, We enjoyed 16 months of peace from both
the Hamas and Hezbollah. In that time we ran raids extra judicial
liquidations kidnappings and murder not so surgical assasinations.
Scores of Palestinian children and militants are killed daily.

Demonstrate against this war. Bush's people wants a confrontation
between Syria and Israel and they think they can win control of this
region through military force. The more these people suffer in Lebanon
the more Nasrallah grows in Popularity.

Bismillah,

Thanks for pointing this out, Daniel.  The Washington Post did an article on the thousands of prisoners held by Israel, many with no charges and no family visitations allowed.  And these are from ongoing as well as past captures of many innocent civilians as well as Hamas and Hezbollah soldiers.

Salaamu Alaykum



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:33am
This is a sampling of some of the e mails I am exchanging around the
country

Danny

we have had up to 10 people, a dog and an aquarium of fish at one time!
we have a bit more room now since the last fish passed away recently. So
you can feel free to bring your pets as well.

take good care of yourselves!!


See you Saturday

From Daniel Dworsky
I don't understand why we can exchange any number of terrorists for
kidnapped drug dealers diplomats and mossad agents but have a big
problem doing it for three kids who should be at home right now.?
Instead we take the obvious bait that will cost us life after innocent life.?
The longer this goes on the worse it's going to get for all except those
few who stand to gain from all our suffering.

Please join us and if you must be a communist then be a quiet comrade
and try not to piss off the bloody police this time.


Danny
?
I also think there is something very hokey about Omerts' sudden rigidity
in negotiating.? what would he do if it was his child. but it wouldn't be
because his? children will all be at the anti war demonstration. along with
his wife...aliza.?
? There will probably be too many people at the demo for us to bump into
one another, but I hope to see you there anyways.
?
I have attached my view of the situation. I hope you have a chance to read
it.
?

stay safe!
<It was a comedy of errors.doc>

There were a series of calamentous events which led to this erroneous
situation. Those of us who knew the players never anticipated that we
could loose control so easily and so far away.

It started long ago with the changing of the Chief of Staff from Boogie
Ayalon to the very controversial (and arrogant) Dan Halutz. Ariel Sharon
was the PM and we knew that he could certainly handle this tough
Brigadeer General. Sidebar: Dan Halutz is most famous for telling radio
interviewer that he sleeps very well at night despite knowing that he
authorized a mission that killed 15 civilians in the bombing of an apt
house in Gaza. He is a firm believer in executing terrorists in the privacy
of their home or car, with missles dropped from an F16.

There were protests and High Court requests to rescind the Halutz
appointment but to no avail. It was a lone soldier, Yoav Hass who led the
fearless fight, against Halutz.
Shaul Mufaz was the Min of Defense and the ďliberalĒ right was running
the country. I say liberal right because, the Likud was in power but Sharon
was acting very liberal with the disengagement of Gaza and promise of
other areas as well.

THEN, the most bizarre turn of events occurred; the ruling right suddenly
became split down the middle and the leader of the leading party
declared that he would leave his party and start a NEW party, which was
very successful under his leadership. He included more rival liberal party
members to join in key positions and formed a new centralist party. Not
too hot and not too cold, very parve. The left was happy they could be
part of the new middle east and the extreme right was devastated that
they were left behind. One small step for man, one giant step for
mankind.

BUT then the next most bizarre turn; the leader of the party goes in for an
innocent medical procedure and falls into a coma!!!
The next in command, Olmert does not have a glorious military past, but
is indeed on the right side of the street politically, or so we think.

BUT THEN we win another victory, and the champion of Social Values and
Equality is the leader of the 2nd largest party. Although he would prefer
to be Minister of Finance, he is given and even better position; Minister of
Defense. WOW!! (but he too has very little experience with the defense
establishment, and does not have a glorious army service).

So the stage is set for pull outs from the west bank and social reform to
minimize the par between the richest segment of society and the rest of
us.

Now here is when things get really spooky! Suddenly we turn around and
instead of negotiating a release for a poor kidnapped soldier, someone
screamed GIRRONIMO!! And started a giant war.

Suddenly the guy in the oval office is rubbing his hands and saying, oh
yes letís make sure they donít trade nary a single under-aged female
terrorist for that nice soldier. Letís try out some of our new technology!


Where is our guy in the defense dept.!!!??? did he suddenly give up all of
his convictions. Do they even invite him to the strategic planning
meetings? Are they conducting them in English so he wonít interfere?

So really, who do we think is running the show up north? Is it Amir Peretz
who has not given one press conference regarding the actual situation
since he took office or maybe its Dan Halutz who has not been able to
wipe that smirk off his face?

Friends our country has been captured by a band of over zealous generals
with a great desire for more trophies. The problem we face now is that all
important dilemma:
CAN YOU SUPPORT ISRAEL AND STILL BE AGAINST THE GOVERNMENTS
ACTIONS????
YES YES YES!!!!!


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:39am
Ad published in Haaretz, July 28, 2006.

While the eyes of the public
Are riveted to the
Daily bloodletting in Lebanon -
The wholesale killing
In the Gaza Strip
Is going on.

Women and children
Are also killed
Every day.

This bill, too,
Will be presented to us
In the future.






Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 4:56am

Daniel,

Thanks so much for posting - your insights into what is going on in Palestine/Israel are always good food for thought. 

I do wonder though, if humankind will ever get anywhere as long as we all keep calling each other "terrorist".  We are all so intent on pointing the finger and screaming terrorist at one another.

Alhamdulillah for people who actually talk to each other - this is what leads to understanding.

Peace, ummziba.



-------------
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 5:36am
That last one is our daily Gush Shalom Ad
Uri Avnery runs that motley crew.
He used to be a "terrorist" and before that he was an inmate of Aushwitz.
He gets me into more trouble than any other person I've even known.




Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 8:41pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

This is a sampling of some of the e mails I am exchanging around the
country

Danny

we have had up to 10 people, a dog and an aquarium of fish at one time!
we have a bit more room now since the last fish passed away recently. So
you can feel free to bring your pets as well.

take good care of yourselves!!


See you Saturday

From Daniel Dworsky
I don't understand why we can exchange any number of terrorists for
kidnapped drug dealers diplomats and mossad agents but have a big
problem doing it for three kids who should be at home right now.?
Instead we take the obvious bait that will cost us life after innocent life.?
The longer this goes on the worse it's going to get for all except those
few who stand to gain from all our suffering.

Please join us and if you must be a communist then be a quiet comrade
and try not to piss off the bloody police this time.


Danny
?
I also think there is something very hokey about Omerts' sudden rigidity
in negotiating.? what would he do if it was his child. but it wouldn't be
because his? children will all be at the anti war demonstration. along with
his wife...aliza.?
? There will probably be too many people at the demo for us to bump into
one another, but I hope to see you there anyways.
?
I have attached my view of the situation. I hope you have a chance to read
it.
?

stay safe!
<It was a comedy of errors.doc>

There were a series of calamentous events which led to this erroneous
situation. Those of us who knew the players never anticipated that we
could loose control so easily and so far away.

It started long ago with the changing of the Chief of Staff from Boogie
Ayalon to the very controversial (and arrogant) Dan Halutz. Ariel Sharon
was the PM and we knew that he could certainly handle this tough
Brigadeer General. Sidebar: Dan Halutz is most famous for telling radio
interviewer that he sleeps very well at night despite knowing that he
authorized a mission that killed 15 civilians in the bombing of an apt
house in Gaza. He is a firm believer in executing terrorists in the privacy
of their home or car, with missles dropped from an F16.

There were protests and High Court requests to rescind the Halutz
appointment but to no avail. It was a lone soldier, Yoav Hass who led the
fearless fight, against Halutz.
Shaul Mufaz was the Min of Defense and the ďliberalĒ right was running
the country. I say liberal right because, the Likud was in power but Sharon
was acting very liberal with the disengagement of Gaza and promise of
other areas as well.

THEN, the most bizarre turn of events occurred; the ruling right suddenly
became split down the middle and the leader of the leading party
declared that he would leave his party and start a NEW party, which was
very successful under his leadership. He included more rival liberal party
members to join in key positions and formed a new centralist party. Not
too hot and not too cold, very parve. The left was happy they could be
part of the new middle east and the extreme right was devastated that
they were left behind. One small step for man, one giant step for
mankind.

BUT then the next most bizarre turn; the leader of the party goes in for an
innocent medical procedure and falls into a coma!!!
The next in command, Olmert does not have a glorious military past, but
is indeed on the right side of the street politically, or so we think.

BUT THEN we win another victory, and the champion of Social Values and
Equality is the leader of the 2nd largest party. Although he would prefer
to be Minister of Finance, he is given and even better position; Minister of
Defense. WOW!! (but he too has very little experience with the defense
establishment, and does not have a glorious army service).

So the stage is set for pull outs from the west bank and social reform to
minimize the par between the richest segment of society and the rest of
us.

Now here is when things get really spooky! Suddenly we turn around and
instead of negotiating a release for a poor kidnapped soldier, someone
screamed GIRRONIMO!! And started a giant war.

Suddenly the guy in the oval office is rubbing his hands and saying, oh
yes letís make sure they donít trade nary a single under-aged female
terrorist for that nice soldier. Letís try out some of our new technology!


Where is our guy in the defense dept.!!!??? did he suddenly give up all of
his convictions. Do they even invite him to the strategic planning
meetings? Are they conducting them in English so he wonít interfere?

So really, who do we think is running the show up north? Is it Amir Peretz
who has not given one press conference regarding the actual situation
since he took office or maybe its Dan Halutz who has not been able to
wipe that smirk off his face?

Friends our country has been captured by a band of over zealous generals
with a great desire for more trophies. The problem we face now is that all
important dilemma:
CAN YOU SUPPORT ISRAEL AND STILL BE AGAINST THE GOVERNMENTS
ACTIONS????
YES YES YES!!!!!

Bismillah,

Daniel,

I thought I should let you know that in America at this time the news stations are saying things like:  All Israelis agree that the DEFENSE should not stop until Hezbollah is routed from Southern Lebanon.  I've seen statements like these a few times. 

Could I send some of your quotes to papers here?

Salaamu Alaykum



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 27 July 2006 at 10:24pm
When we demonstrated in Haifa soldiers honked and gave us the thumbs up
sign. Israeli: Jews; Muslims and Christians Thanked us openly.
Because my wife and I enjoy a small amount of celebrity the police hesitate
to confront us in public as do the non uniformed hoodlums. I represent 40%
of the Israeli Public. Right now they are scared and for good reason.
If you don't have a back it's a reasonable idea to be less vocal.   This is
Israel. No one is reasonable. We talk we get harassed, Fired from our jobs
threatened over the phone at al hours and when we make more noise and
express our outrage we get rehired. That has been the story of my life these
last couple of years.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 29 July 2006 at 4:38pm
Herjihad,

You can quote me as much as you like although you are well informed
articulate and write beautifully. BBC world service is also a good ssource
of un biased information as well as a good cross reference to use to
check the validity of the thousands of stories leaving Lebenon and Syria
right now.

I sort of quote you all the time

At tonight's demonstration I met a lot of T.V. and Radio People that I
haven't en for a couple of months - mostly Talent. I met Amal Markas
from our Israeli Broadcasting Agency chapter of Sesame street. She was
asked to say somethings over the air and just quit. She is a world class
vocalist and actress that has been IBA's "Poster Arab" for 15 years. So
many people are quitting or being fired now. The war is not going as
planned but as much as expected. Hezbollah hits and melts back into the
population our guys follow them into towns and villages and take
casualties. Yesterday as I was leaving the supermarket an SUV rolled to a
stop in the middle of the road blocking my exit and traffic behind it. I
was about to honk when I noticed that another car with a man inside with
a cellular to his ear and his kids squirming in the car seats behind him
he to had stopped in the same strange way on the service road parallel to
me. My air conditioner in my car is on the fritz and through my open
window I heard cellphones going of all over the parking lot. Friday
shopping is sort of a guy thing here and it seems that every phone
belonging to every other man between the ages of 23 and 49 was going
off. It was Like high noon in a coo coo clock factory. From the look on
everyones face it meant that we are now really in it. That's what a major
reserve call up looks like.
Things are escalating here very fast.
Uri Puts it like this:

Uri Avnery
29.7.06

                  In the Gunsight: Syria

                        or: A Nice Little War

IT IS the old story about the losing gambler: he cannot stop. He continues
to play, in order to win his losses back. He continues to lose and
continues to gamble, until he has lost everything: his ranch, his wife, his
shirt.

The same thing happens in the biggest gamble of all: war. The leaders
that start a war and get stuck in the mud are compelled to fight their way
ever deeper into the mud. That is a part of the very essence of war: it is
impossible to stop after a failure. Public opinion demands the promised
victory. Incompetent generals need to cover up their failure. Military
commentators and other armchair strategists demand a massive
offensive. Cynical politicians are riding the wave. The government is
carried away by the flood that they themselves have let loose.

That is what happened this week, following the battle of Bint-Jbeil, which
the Arabs have already started to call proudly Nasrallahgrad. All over
Israel the cry goes up: Get into it! Quicker! Further! Deeper!

A day after the bloody battle, the cabinet decided on a massive
mobilization of the reserves. What for? The ministers do not know. But it
does not depend on them anymore, nor on the generals. The political and
military leadership is tossed about on the waves of war like a boat
without a rudder.

As has been said before: it is much easier to start a war than to finish
one. The cabinet believes that it controls the war, but in reality it is the
war that controls them. They have mounted a tiger, and can't be sure of
getting off without being torn to pieces.

War has its own rules. Unexpected things happen and dictate the next
moves. And the next moves tend to be in one direction: escalation.


DAN HALUTZ, the father of this war, thought that he could eliminate
Hizbullah by means of the Air Force, the most sophisticated, most
efficient and the generally most-most air force in the world. A few days of
massive pounding, thousands of tons of bombs on neighborhoods, roads,
electricity works and ports - and that's it.

Well, that wasn't it, as it turned out. The Hizbullah rockets continued to
land in the north of Israel, hundreds a day. The public cried out. There
was no way round a ground operation. First, small, elite units were put in.
That did not help. Then brigades were deployed. And now whole divisions
are demanded.

First they wanted to annihilate the Hizbullah positions along the border.
When it was seen that that was not enough, it was decided to conquer the
hills that dominate the border. There, the Hizbullah fighters were waiting
and caused heavy casualties. And the rockets continued to fly.

Now the generals are convinced that there is no alternative to occupying
the whole area up to the Litani River, about 24 km from the border, in
order to prevent the rockets from being launched from there. Then they
will find out that they have to reach the Awali River, 40 km inside - the
famous 40 km which Menachem Begin talked about in 1982.

And then? The Israeli army will be extended over a large area, and
everywhere it will be exposed to guerilla attacks, of the sort Hizbullah
excels in. And the missiles will continue to fly.

What next? One cannot stop. Public opinion will demand more decisive
moves. Political demagogues will shout. Commentators will grumble. The
people in the shelters will cry out. The generals will feel the heat. One
cannot keep tens of thousands of reserve soldiers mobilized indefinitely.
It is impossible to prolong a situation which paralyzes a third of the
country.

Everybody will clamor to storm forwards. Where to? Towards Beirut in the
North? Or towards Damascus, in the East?


THE CABINET ministers recite in unison: No! Never ever! We shall not
attack Syria!

Perhaps some of them really don't intend to. They do not dream of a war
with Syria. Definitely not. But the ministers only delude themselves when
they believe that they control the war. The war controls them.

When it becomes clear that nothing is helping, that Hizbullah goes on
fighting and the rockets continue to fly, the political and military
leadership will face bankruptcy. They will need to pin the blame on
somebody. On who? Well, on Assad, of course.

How is it possible that a small "terror organization", with a few thousand
fighters altogether, goes on fighting? Where do they get the arms from?
The finger will point towards Syria.

Even now, the army commanders assert that new rockets are flowing all
the time from Syria to Hizbullah. True, the roads have been bombed, the
bridges destroyed, but the arms somehow continue to arrive. The Israeli
government demands that an international force be stationed not only
along the Israeli-Lebanese border, but on the Lebanese-Syrian border,
too. The queue of volunteers will not be long.   

Then the generals will demand the bombing of roads and bridges inside
Syria. For that, the Syrian Air Force will have to be neutralized. In short, a
real war, with implications for the whole Middle East.


EHUD OLMERT and Amir Peretz did not think about that when they
decided 17 days ago in haste and light heartedly, without serious debate,
without examining other options, without calculating the risks, to attack
Hizbullah. For politicians who do not know what war is, it was an
irresistible temptation: there was a clear provocation by Hizbullah,
international support was assured, what a wonderful opportunity! They
would do what even Sharon did not dare.

Dan Halutz submitted an offer that could not be refused. A nice little war.
Military plans were ready and well rehearsed. Certain victory. The more
so, since on the other side there was no real enemy army, just a "terror
organization".

How hotly the desire was burning in the hearts of Olmert and Peretz is
attested by the fact that they did not even think about the lack of shelters
in the Northern towns, not to mention the far-reaching economic and
social implications. The main thing was to rush in and gather the laurels.

They had no time to think seriously about the war aim. Now they
resemble archers who shoot their arrows at a blank sheet and then draw
the rings around the arrow. The aims change daily: to destroy Hizbullah,
to disarm them, to drive them out of South Lebanon, and perhaps just to
"weaken" them. To kill Hassan Nasrallah. To bring the captured soldiers
home. To extend the sovereignty of the Lebanese government over all of
Lebanon. To establish a new-old Security Zone occupied by Israel. To
deploy the Lebanese army and/or an international force along the border.
To rehabilitate deterrence. To imprint into the consciousness of
Hizbullah. (Our generals love imprinting into consciousnesses. That is a
wonderfully safe aim, because it cannot be measured.)


THE MORE the nice little war continues, the clearer it becomes that these
changing aims are not realistic. The Lebanese ruling group does not
represent anybody but a small, rich and corrupt elite. The Lebanese army
cannot and will not fight Hizbullah. The new "security zone" will be
exposed to guerilla attacks and the international force will not enter the
area without the agreement of Hizbullah. And this guerilla force,
Hizbullah, the Israeli army cannot vanquish.

That is nothing to be ashamed of. Our army is in good - or, rather, bad -
company. The term "guerilla" ("small war") was coined in Spain, during the
occupation of the country by Napoleon. Irregular bands of Spanish
fighters attacked the occupiers and beat them. The same happened to the
Russians in Afghanistan, to the French in Algeria, to the British in
Palestine and a dozen other colonies, to the Americans in Vietnam, and is
happening to them now in Iraq. Even assuming that Dan Halutz and Udi
Adam are greater commanders than Napoleon and his marshals, they will
not succeed where those failed.

When Napoleon did not know what to do next, he invaded Russia. If we
don't stop the operation, it will lead us to war with Syria.

Condoleezza Rice's stubborn struggle against any attempt to stop the war
shows that this is indeed the aim of the United States. From the first day
of George Bush's presidency, the neo-cons have been calling for the
elimination of Syria. The deeper Bush sinks into the Iraqi quagmire, the
more he needs to divert attention with another adventure.

By the way: One day before the outbreak of this war, our Minister of
National Infrastructures, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, took part in the
inauguration ceremony of the big pipeline that will conduct oil from the
huge Caspian Sea reserves to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, just next to the
Syrian border. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline avoids Russia and passes
through Azerbaijan and Georgia, two countries closely aligned with Israel,
like Turkey itself. There is a plan to bring a part of the oil from there
along the Syrian and Lebanese coast to Ashkelon, where an existing
pipeline will conduct it to Eilat, to be exported to the Far East. Israel and
Turkey are to secure the area for the United States.


MUST THE sliding into a war with Syria happen? Is there no alternative?

Of course there is. To stop now, at once.

When President Lyndon Johnson felt that he was sinking into the morass
of Vietnam, he asked his friends for advice. One of them answered with
five words: "Declare victory and get out!"

We can do that. To stop investing more and more in a losing business. To
be satisfied with what we can get now. For example: an agreement that
will move Hizbullah a few kilometers from the border, along which an
international force and/or the Lebanese army will be deployed, and to
exchange prisoners. Olmert will be able to present that as a great victory,
to claim that we have got what we wanted, that we have taught the Arabs
a lesson, that anyhow we had no intention of achieving more. Nasrallah
will also claim a great victory, asserting that he has taught the Zionist
Enemy a lesson it will not forget, that Hizbullah remains alive, strong and
armed, that he has brought back the Lebanese prisoners.

True, it will not be much. But that is what can be done to cut losses, as
they say in the business world.

That can happen. If Olmert is clever enough to extricate himself from the
trap, before it closes entirely. (As folk wisdom says: a clever person is one
that gets out of a trap that a wise one would not have got into in the first
place.) And if Condoleezza gets orders from her boss to allow it.


ON THE 17th day of the war , we must recognize that soon we will be
faced with a clear choice: to slide into a war with Syria, intentionally or
unintentionally, or to get a general agreement in the North, that will
necessarily involve also Hizbullah and Syria. At the center of such an
agreement will be the Golan Heights.

Olmert and Peretz did not think about that in those intoxicating moments
on July 12, when they jumped at the opportunity to start a nice little war.
But then, were they thinking at all?


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 29 July 2006 at 5:04pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Herjihad,

You can quote me as much as you like although you are well informed
articulate and write beautifully. BBC world service is also a good ssource
of un biased information as well as a good cross reference to use to
check the validity of the thousands of stories leaving Lebenon and Syria
right now.

I sort of quote you all the time

Bismillah,

I missed this part as I was struggling to get my son to be interested in reading this piece.  I wonder how he's going to do on the pop quiz tomorrow scheduled for Wednesday.  Hmm.

Thank you for those thoughtful words, Daniel.  Have you ever listened to Tammy Bruce?  She's a Christian radio commentator I listened to for about 10 minutes.  She was talking about the world calling Israel "dirty J..." for the attacks.  Funny thing is I hadn't heard anybody say that recently -- except Mel Gibson, whom she quoted as well -- and her.  THAT didn't even occur to me, but you can thank yourself for that.  I'd like others to have the chance to hear your point of view.  I think it would make a huge difference, whereas a lot of people out there are already expressing mine and don't have the credibilty that you do.

Because of your encouragement, I'll try harder to write more articles, not that I've written many, to papers and such.

And stay safe!

Salaamu Alaykum

At tonight's demonstration I met a lot of T.V. and Radio People that I
haven't en for a couple of months - mostly Talent. I met Amal Markas
from our Israeli Broadcasting Agency chapter of Sesame street. She was
asked to say somethings over the air and just quit. She is a world class
vocalist and actress that has been IBA's "Poster Arab" for 15 years. So
many people are quitting or being fired now. The war is not going as
planned but as much as expected. Hezbollah hits and melts back into the
population our guys follow them into towns and villages and take
casualties. Yesterday as I was leaving the supermarket an SUV rolled to a
stop in the middle of the road blocking my exit and traffic behind it. I
was about to honk when I noticed that another car with a man inside with
a cellular to his ear and his kids squirming in the car seats behind him
he to had stopped in the same strange way on the service road parallel to
me. My air conditioner in my car is on the fritz and through my open
window I heard cellphones going of all over the parking lot. Friday
shopping is sort of a guy thing here and it seems that every phone
belonging to every other man between the ages of 23 and 49 was going
off. It was Like high noon in a coo coo clock factory. From the look on
everyones face it meant that we are now really in it. That's what a major
reserve call up looks like.
Things are escalating here very fast.
Uri Puts it like this:

Uri Avnery
29.7.06

                  In the Gunsight: Syria

                        or: A Nice Little War

IT IS the old story about the losing gambler: he cannot stop. He continues
to play, in order to win his losses back. He continues to lose and
continues to gamble, until he has lost everything: his ranch, his wife, his
shirt.

The same thing happens in the biggest gamble of all: war. The leaders
that start a war and get stuck in the mud are compelled to fight their way
ever deeper into the mud. That is a part of the very essence of war: it is
impossible to stop after a failure. Public opinion demands the promised
victory. Incompetent generals need to cover up their failure. Military
commentators and other armchair strategists demand a massive
offensive. Cynical politicians are riding the wave. The government is
carried away by the flood that they themselves have let loose.

That is what happened this week, following the battle of Bint-Jbeil, which
the Arabs have already started to call proudly Nasrallahgrad. All over
Israel the cry goes up: Get into it! Quicker! Further! Deeper!

A day after the bloody battle, the cabinet decided on a massive
mobilization of the reserves. What for? The ministers do not know. But it
does not depend on them anymore, nor on the generals. The political and
military leadership is tossed about on the waves of war like a boat
without a rudder.

As has been said before: it is much easier to start a war than to finish
one. The cabinet believes that it controls the war, but in reality it is the
war that controls them. They have mounted a tiger, and can't be sure of
getting off without being torn to pieces.

War has its own rules. Unexpected things happen and dictate the next
moves. And the next moves tend to be in one direction: escalation.


DAN HALUTZ, the father of this war, thought that he could eliminate
Hizbullah by means of the Air Force, the most sophisticated, most
efficient and the generally most-most air force in the world. A few days of
massive pounding, thousands of tons of bombs on neighborhoods, roads,
electricity works and ports - and that's it.

Well, that wasn't it, as it turned out. The Hizbullah rockets continued to
land in the north of Israel, hundreds a day. The public cried out. There
was no way round a ground operation. First, small, elite units were put in.
That did not help. Then brigades were deployed. And now whole divisions
are demanded.

First they wanted to annihilate the Hizbullah positions along the border.
When it was seen that that was not enough, it was decided to conquer the
hills that dominate the border. There, the Hizbullah fighters were waiting
and caused heavy casualties. And the rockets continued to fly.

Now the generals are convinced that there is no alternative to occupying
the whole area up to the Litani River, about 24 km from the border, in
order to prevent the rockets from being launched from there. Then they
will find out that they have to reach the Awali River, 40 km inside - the
famous 40 km which Menachem Begin talked about in 1982.

And then? The Israeli army will be extended over a large area, and
everywhere it will be exposed to guerilla attacks, of the sort Hizbullah
excels in. And the missiles will continue to fly.

What next? One cannot stop. Public opinion will demand more decisive
moves. Political demagogues will shout. Commentators will grumble. The
people in the shelters will cry out. The generals will feel the heat. One
cannot keep tens of thousands of reserve soldiers mobilized indefinitely.
It is impossible to prolong a situation which paralyzes a third of the
country.

Everybody will clamor to storm forwards. Where to? Towards Beirut in the
North? Or towards Damascus, in the East?


THE CABINET ministers recite in unison: No! Never ever! We shall not
attack Syria!

Perhaps some of them really don't intend to. They do not dream of a war
with Syria. Definitely not. But the ministers only delude themselves when
they believe that they control the war. The war controls them.

When it becomes clear that nothing is helping, that Hizbullah goes on
fighting and the rockets continue to fly, the political and military
leadership will face bankruptcy. They will need to pin the blame on
somebody. On who? Well, on Assad, of course.

How is it possible that a small "terror organization", with a few thousand
fighters altogether, goes on fighting? Where do they get the arms from?
The finger will point towards Syria.

Even now, the army commanders assert that new rockets are flowing all
the time from Syria to Hizbullah. True, the roads have been bombed, the
bridges destroyed, but the arms somehow continue to arrive. The Israeli
government demands that an international force be stationed not only
along the Israeli-Lebanese border, but on the Lebanese-Syrian border,
too. The queue of volunteers will not be long.   

Then the generals will demand the bombing of roads and bridges inside
Syria. For that, the Syrian Air Force will have to be neutralized. In short, a
real war, with implications for the whole Middle East.


EHUD OLMERT and Amir Peretz did not think about that when they
decided 17 days ago in haste and light heartedly, without serious debate,
without examining other options, without calculating the risks, to attack
Hizbullah. For politicians who do not know what war is, it was an
irresistible temptation: there was a clear provocation by Hizbullah,
international support was assured, what a wonderful opportunity! They
would do what even Sharon did not dare.

Dan Halutz submitted an offer that could not be refused. A nice little war.
Military plans were ready and well rehearsed. Certain victory. The more
so, since on the other side there was no real enemy army, just a "terror
organization".

How hotly the desire was burning in the hearts of Olmert and Peretz is
attested by the fact that they did not even think about the lack of shelters
in the Northern towns, not to mention the far-reaching economic and
social implications. The main thing was to rush in and gather the laurels.

They had no time to think seriously about the war aim. Now they
resemble archers who shoot their arrows at a blank sheet and then draw
the rings around the arrow. The aims change daily: to destroy Hizbullah,
to disarm them, to drive them out of South Lebanon, and perhaps just to
"weaken" them. To kill Hassan Nasrallah. To bring the captured soldiers
home. To extend the sovereignty of the Lebanese government over all of
Lebanon. To establish a new-old Security Zone occupied by Israel. To
deploy the Lebanese army and/or an international force along the border.
To rehabilitate deterrence. To imprint into the consciousness of
Hizbullah. (Our generals love imprinting into consciousnesses. That is a
wonderfully safe aim, because it cannot be measured.)


THE MORE the nice little war continues, the clearer it becomes that these
changing aims are not realistic. The Lebanese ruling group does not
represent anybody but a small, rich and corrupt elite. The Lebanese army
cannot and will not fight Hizbullah. The new "security zone" will be
exposed to guerilla attacks and the international force will not enter the
area without the agreement of Hizbullah. And this guerilla force,
Hizbullah, the Israeli army cannot vanquish.

That is nothing to be ashamed of. Our army is in good - or, rather, bad -
company. The term "guerilla" ("small war") was coined in Spain, during the
occupation of the country by Napoleon. Irregular bands of Spanish
fighters attacked the occupiers and beat them. The same happened to the
Russians in Afghanistan, to the French in Algeria, to the British in
Palestine and a dozen other colonies, to the Americans in Vietnam, and is
happening to them now in Iraq. Even assuming that Dan Halutz and Udi
Adam are greater commanders than Napoleon and his marshals, they will
not succeed where those failed.

When Napoleon did not know what to do next, he invaded Russia. If we
don't stop the operation, it will lead us to war with Syria.

Condoleezza Rice's stubborn struggle against any attempt to stop the war
shows that this is indeed the aim of the United States. From the first day
of George Bush's presidency, the neo-cons have been calling for the
elimination of Syria. The deeper Bush sinks into the Iraqi quagmire, the
more he needs to divert attention with another adventure.

By the way: One day before the outbreak of this war, our Minister of
National Infrastructures, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, took part in the
inauguration ceremony of the big pipeline that will conduct oil from the
huge Caspian Sea reserves to the Turkish port of Ceyhan, just next to the
Syrian border. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline avoids Russia and passes
through Azerbaijan and Georgia, two countries closely aligned with Israel,
like Turkey itself. There is a plan to bring a part of the oil from there
along the Syrian and Lebanese coast to Ashkelon, where an existing
pipeline will conduct it to Eilat, to be exported to the Far East. Israel and
Turkey are to secure the area for the United States.


MUST THE sliding into a war with Syria happen? Is there no alternative?

Of course there is. To stop now, at once.

When President Lyndon Johnson felt that he was sinking into the morass
of Vietnam, he asked his friends for advice. One of them answered with
five words: "Declare victory and get out!"

We can do that. To stop investing more and more in a losing business. To
be satisfied with what we can get now. For example: an agreement that
will move Hizbullah a few kilometers from the border, along which an
international force and/or the Lebanese army will be deployed, and to
exchange prisoners. Olmert will be able to present that as a great victory,
to claim that we have got what we wanted, that we have taught the Arabs
a lesson, that anyhow we had no intention of achieving more. Nasrallah
will also claim a great victory, asserting that he has taught the Zionist
Enemy a lesson it will not forget, that Hizbullah remains alive, strong and
armed, that he has brought back the Lebanese prisoners.

True, it will not be much. But that is what can be done to cut losses, as
they say in the business world.

That can happen. If Olmert is clever enough to extricate himself from the
trap, before it closes entirely. (As folk wisdom says: a clever person is one
that gets out of a trap that a wise one would not have got into in the first
place.) And if Condoleezza gets orders from her boss to allow it.


ON THE 17th day of the war , we must recognize that soon we will be
faced with a clear choice: to slide into a war with Syria, intentionally or
unintentionally, or to get a general agreement in the North, that will
necessarily involve also Hizbullah and Syria. At the center of such an
agreement will be the Golan Heights.

Olmert and Peretz did not think about that in those intoxicating moments
on July 12, when they jumped at the opportunity to start a nice little war.
But then, were they thinking at all?

Bismillah,

Thanks for this piece.  Maybe Olmert and whoever Condo's boss is will listen.  But bloodshed won't hold any weight to them compared to that pipeline.

Salaamu Alaykum



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 August 2006 at 12:18am
This war has
Only one aim left:

To save the prestige of
Olmert,
Peretz
And Halutz.

All the other aims
Have gone up in smoke.

There is no military solution.

----------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow, Saturday, 6 pm, in Tel-Aviv, we shall take part in a march of
all the peace organizations against the war. Starting from Ben-Zion
Boulevard corner King George, we shall march to Magen David Square.
JOIN!
------------------------------------------------------


www.gush-shalom.org
For information:
info@gush-shalom.org


Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 04 August 2006 at 3:50am

Hizbullah says they will bomb Tel Aviv if Israel bombs central Beirut.....may you be safe Daniel. 

Peace, ummziba.



-------------
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 August 2006 at 1:20pm
Too late. The sirens went off three times today and it's been really hard on
Joey (my son) We were caught in a Barrage in Haifa last week. My ears are
still ringing I'm still bumping into things. I still have a whopping head ache. I
am so stressed out after having to abandon a beautiful wonderful alfresco
dinner to stand in a bomb shelter. The neighborhood strays must have
thought they had made it to Kitty-Feuradis.
I made dinner tonight for two activists from ICAHD (Israeli committee
against House demolitions) there is a demo tomorrow in Tel Aviv. Some silly
people are fond of shouting out of their car windows. "If only a Katusha
would land on you..."   I'm trying to lend my optimism to the universe here
but its hard going at the moment. One word. Ohio. And I don't mean good
morning in Japanese...


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 04 August 2006 at 1:53pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Too late. The sirens went off three times today and it's been really hard on
Joey (my son) We were caught in a Barrage in Haifa last week. My ears are
still ringing I'm still bumping into things. I still have a whopping head ache. I
am so stressed out after having to abandon a beautiful wonderful alfresco
dinner to stand in a bomb shelter. The neighborhood strays must have
thought they had made it to Kitty-Feuradis.
I made dinner tonight for two activists from ICAHD (Israeli committee
against House demolitions) there is a demo tomorrow in Tel Aviv. Some silly
people are fond of shouting out of their car windows. "If only a Katusha
would land on you..."   I'm trying to lend my optimism to the universe here
but its hard going at the moment. One word. Ohio. And I don't mean good
morning in Japanese...

Bismillah,

I guess a Katusha is a bomb.  Do you think they really feel that way or are angry at the moment and overcome by emotion?  See a doc for your ears, okay?

There was an article in the Post today:  Israel's Lost Moment.  It clearly states that :  For years there has been a debate over Israel's stategic value... America's Green Light for Israel to defend itself is seen as a favor to Israel.  But that is a tendentious, misleadingly partial analysis.  The green light -- indeed, the encouragement -- is also an act of clear self-interest.  America wants, America needs, a decisive Hezbollah defeat.          ;       Charles Krauthammer  Friday, August 4, 2006

Salaamu Alaykum



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 August 2006 at 2:56pm
How to defeat the Hezbollah.

1.) Take away their moral license by tearing down the wall and forming a
single democratic country with separation of nothing and no one save
religion and state.

2.) Stay out of Lebenon


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 05 August 2006 at 11:34am

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

How to defeat the Hezbollah.

1.) Take away their moral license by tearing down the wall and forming a
single democratic country with separation of nothing and no one save
religion and state.

2.) Stay out of Lebenon

Bismillah,

This sounds like an excellent formula to me!

Salaamu Alaykum



-------------
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 05 August 2006 at 2:39pm
Yeah I thought it was pretty good too so did about 10,000 other people
tonight set to meet in Rabin Square. The City revoked our license last night
and told us we could set up a small demonstration in Zion square in the
Shenkin District (our Tel Aviv version of New York city's Grenich Village)
"Zion Square" sigh holds a maximum of 300 people thousands showed up
and blocked traffic on and it was a mess. The police deployed batons and
cavalry and that was the end of that. We were well organized and dispersed
like good little boys and girls. It's a miracle that no one was seriously hurt.
The police and the hooligans that always show up at these things were
clearly disappointed. Everyone was really upset and I heard a lot of loose talk
from Israeli arabs and Jews a like. I'm looking for work further south as my
clients and students won't risk the trip up here. I don't blame them. I now
fall under the definition "unnecessary risk"


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 06 August 2006 at 5:52pm

Shalom, Salaam Daniel:

Have you ever considered a blog? At http://www.blogspot.com - www.blogspot.com you can sign up for a blog and upload pics and such about whats going on. The world needs to know that there are those who are against this atagonistic war in both America and Israel and that there is not genereal support for this war. For example, in the US there is an organization at http://www.peacenow.org - www.peacenow.org that is trying to lobby in the US against the war. I myself have signed countless petitions. My husband and I are in the process of physically relocating to Mexico (My husband was born here but his mother was not) to care for my mother-in-law: My husband is a dual citizen of 2countries as am I, We are tired of the misstreatment of Muslims in this country (we live in the land of McCain) and are well treated by our nieghbors in Mexico. I can commute to work here. So going south is not a bad Idea, Please stay safe and move if you must, keeping your family safe should be your first priority!



-------------
"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 7:51pm
Peace now has been conspiciously absent from anti war demonstrations



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