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My baby’s brother death....

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Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5313
Printed Date: 23 November 2014 at 6:55pm


Topic: My baby’s brother death....
Posted By: foody
Subject: My baby’s brother death....
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 4:22pm
   Hello,

When my mom was first pregnant, she was pregnant with a baby boy who she couldn't keep,  he was only six  month of age. When he was born he was still alive but back then they did not have the equipment to save him, so doctors placed him on the table until he died. She wanted to know, is it true that the son will be asking Allah for the forgiveness for his mother and father?



Replies:
Posted By: MangoSwirl
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 5:19pm

Asalaamu Alaikum,

To Allah we belong, and to Him is our return.

The loss of a child is truly a test of patience for all affected. Any tragedy which befalls a believer is a sign of God strengthening that person in faith and patience. One who exhibits patience will be compensated for their trial in the Hereafter, God willing. The following are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) regarding the loss of a child:

In al-Tirmidhi, Ahmad, and others: "Whoever of my Community have two forerunners [farataan=children who died early], Allah enters them Paradise." `A'isha said, Allah be well-pleased with her, "What about a single forerunner?" The Prophet replied, "And whoever has a single forerunner, you gifted woman!" She said, "And whoever has none?" He replied, "I am the forerunner of my Community. They endure nothing greater than my loss."

In Ahmad, al-Tirmidhi, and Ibn Majah, the Prophet said: "Whoever sends forth three children that never reached puberty, they will be for him [and her] a strong fortress [in the hereafter]." Abu Dharr said, "I sent forth two." The Prophet said,  "And two." Ubay ibn Ka`b said, "I sent forth one." The Prophet said,  "And one; but that is only [subject to SABR] at the first shock." From Ibn Mas`ud.

In the Musnad of `Abd ibn Humayd from Mu`adh, the Prophet said: "No two Muslims lost three children except Allah will cause the two parents to enter Paradise through the favor of His mercy toward them." They said, "What about two, Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Two also." They said, "And one?" He said, "[Even] the miscarried child will certainly drag its mother [and father, see below] with its umbilical cord to Paradise!"

The Prophet said, "The miscarried child will pester its glorious and mighty Lord for His entering its two parents into the Fire until it is told, 'O miscarried child that pesters its Lord! Enter your father and mother into Paradise.' Then it will drag them with its umbilical cord until it makes them enter Paradise." Ibn Majah and Abu Ya`la from `Ali.

And again, "By the One in Whose hand is my soul, truly the miscarried child will certainly drag its mother with its umbilical cord to Paradise, provided one expects recompense [for SABR]." Ibn Majah and Ahmad from Mu`adh.

And he said: "Your little ones are the larvas (da`aamees) of Paradise. They will meet their parents and grab them by their garments or their hands to no end other than that Allah will enter them Paradise." Sahih Muslim.

"I swear that a miscarried child of mine I send forth before me is more beloved to me than [raising] a mounted knight that survives me." Ibn Majah from Abu Hurayra.

Wasalaamu Alaikum



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 5:27pm
dont know ask some Imam


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Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 5:52pm

I believe God is very merciful and fair.  This innocent child is with God (in my religion, he is a saint....but that's my beliefs.)  If we all agree that Allah/God is a God of mercy, doesn't it make sense that your parents have been forgiven for any "sin" they may have committed?  Don't you believe in the forgiveness of God?  I do.

Jesus said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."

Peace to You Foody.



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 13 June 2006 at 6:02pm
Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?


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Posted By: MangoSwirl
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Patty

I believe God is very merciful and fair.  This innocent child is with God (in my religion, he is a saint....but that's my beliefs.)  If we all agree that Allah/God is a God of mercy, doesn't it make sense that your parents have been forgiven for any "sin" they may have committed?  Don't you believe in the forgiveness of God?  I do.

Jesus said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."

Peace to You Foody.

The question here is not so much about the forgiveness of God.  It is specifically regarding the miscarried child, and that child's subsequent role.  The hadith are very specific in what position that could be. 

The key to unlocking that mercy/forgiveness is patience.  A person should exhibit patience at first shock, and thereafter.  Allah tells us His Mercy is greater then His Wrath.

I don't think there is a greater loss then that of a child.  Also, a woman who dies during/as a result of child birth is considered a martyr in Islam.  Not to mention the concept of paradise being at the feet of our mothers (hilighting the imporatnce of upholding respect, rights, and the bonds of kinship).  

The whole process from conception to child-rearing is not taken lightly in Islam.  It's one of the greatest tests, and thus deserves great rewards. 

 

 

 



Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 9:23am

Dear ak,

You asked:

"Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?"

Yes, you are right.  That is the belief in my Church.  But we also have a belief in Baptism of Desire.  I know that through form of baptism, babies are not held guilty of any sin due to their innocence.  As this is an Islamic site, I will not go into details concerning Baptism of Desire.  But in essence it absolves the innocent babies of any/all sins. 

God's Peace.



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 11:57am

Originally posted by foody

   Hello,

When my mom was first pregnant, she was pregnant with a baby boy who she couldn't keep,  he was only six  month of age. When he was born he was still alive but back then they did not have the equipment to save him, so doctors placed him on the table until he died. She wanted to know, is it true that the son will be asking Allah for the forgiveness for his mother and father?

Bismillah,

It says that in hadith, Brother Foody, as Mango Swirl has quoted to you.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 14 June 2006 at 11:17pm

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?

according to islam, a just born child is free of sins

and a just born child is a muslim



Posted By: schwester
Date Posted: 15 June 2006 at 5:39am
Originally posted by foody

   Hello,When my mom was first pregnant, she was pregnant with a baby boy who she couldn't keep,  he was only six  month of age. When he was born he was still alive but back then they did not have the equipment to save him, so doctors placed him on the table until he died. She wanted to know, is it true that the son will be asking Allah for the forgiveness for his mother and father?


and a mom after giving birth is freed from all sins. i dunno, i haven't read it anywhere but heard very much from muslims.


Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 15 June 2006 at 5:46am
Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty, isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity? something like the original sin?


according to islam, a just born child is free of sins


and a just born child is a muslim



I was asking according to christanity, I know about Islam.

thank you.


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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 15 June 2006 at 6:17am
Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty, isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity? something like the original sin?


according to islam, a just born child is free of sins


and a just born child is a muslim



I was asking according to christanity, I know about Islam.

thank you.

what is your religion ak_m_f ?



Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 15 June 2006 at 6:52am

ak said:

"I was asking according to christanity, I know about Islam.

thank you."

I can provide information on my Church's beliefs on this matter.  I just didn't know I was allowed to and I didn't want to cause any trouble.

We, as Catholics, adamantly believe in the the words of Jesus from  John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

We should take seriously the truth of God's universal will for salvation ("God wants everybody to be saved," 1 Timothy 2:4), and also the truth that "Jesus died for all." The following text of the Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to hold exactly the same position:

"As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,' allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism" (CCC, 1261). 

I must confess that the mere idea of a God eternally depriving an innocent creature of his vision simply because another person has sinned, or because of an accidental miscarriage, makes me shudder … and I am sure would make any unbeliever happy to stay away from the Christian faith. 

We also show our belief in the salvation of babies who are known as the Holy Innocents.  They are explained here:

When Herod saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, he was infuriated, and he sent and killed all the children in and around Bethlehem who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had learned from the wise men. Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah:

"A voice was heard in Ramah,
wailing and loud lamentation,
Rachel weeping for her children;
she refused to be consoled, because they are no more."

And lastly, the is the Catholic prayer for the Holy Innocents, who are the infants who died as babies or miscarriages, and through no fault of their own were unbaptised:

We remember today, O God, the slaughter of the holy innocents of Bethlehem by King Herod. Receive, we pray, into the arms of your mercy all innocent victims; and by your great might frustrate the designs of evil tyrants and establish your rule of justice, love, and peace; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

Does this answer your question, ak?  I hope I have not broken any rules, as this was just my feeble attempt to explain my position as a Catholic regarding God's great mercy shown toward infants who die and also miscarried babies.

God's Peace.

 



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 16 June 2006 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?

according to islam, a just born child is free of sins

and a just born child is a muslim

As salamu alaikum,

Brother, children aren't born muslim, they're born with the instinct to be muslim.   If they were born muslim, then  every non-muslims would be an apostate (murtad).   Our parents give us our religion.  Then when we get older, some stick to the religion of their parents and others change.

Wallahu a'lam



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:44pm
nicely said

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Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 16 June 2006 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by salman_s


what is your religion ak_m_f ?



Salman,
I am an orthodox Jew. My mission on this forum is to convert you to Judaism.


hope this helps.



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Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:12am
Abeer, what's the meaning of "fitra"?

"No child is born except on Al-fitra..."
(Book http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=60&translator=1&start=0&number=298 - #60 , Hadith http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=60&translator=1&start=0&number=298#298 - #298 )Bukhari


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Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 4:41am
Originally posted by Abeer23

Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?

according to islam, a just born child is free of sins

and a just born child is a muslim

As salamu alaikum,

Brother, children aren't born muslim, they're born with the instinct to be muslim.   If they were born muslim, then  every non-muslims would be an apostate (murtad).   Our parents give us our religion.  Then when we get older, some stick to the religion of their parents and others change.

Wallahu a'lam

jazakallah sister

i knew this but i was not able to explain as you did

jazakallah sister



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 4:43am
Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by Abeer23

Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?

according to islam, a just born child is free of sins

and a just born child is a muslim

As salamu alaikum,

Brother, children aren't born muslim, they're born with the instinct to be muslim.   If they were born muslim, then  every non-muslims would be an apostate (murtad).   Our parents give us our religion.  Then when we get older, some stick to the religion of their parents and others change.

Wallahu a'lam

assalamualaikum abeer23

jazakallah

i knew this but i was not able to explain as you did

jazakallah abeer23



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 4:45am
Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by Abeer23

[QUOTE=salman_s]

[QUOTE=ak_m_f]Patty,
isnt everyone born with sin accoring to christanity?
something like the original sin?

according to islam, a just born child is free of sins

and a just born child is a muslim

As salamu alaikum,

Brother, children aren't born muslim, they're born with the instinct to be muslim.   If they were born muslim, then  every non-muslims would be an apostate (murtad).   Our parents give us our religion.  Then when we get older, some stick to the religion of their parents and others change.

Wallahu a'lam

assalamualaikum abeer23

jazakallah

i knew this but i was not able to explain as you did

jazakallah abeer23



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 4:48am
Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by salman_s


what is your religion ak_m_f ?



Salman,
I am an orthodox Jew. My mission on this forum is to convert you to Judaism. 

whom Allah leads astray none can guide him to the straight path, and whom Allah guides to the straight path none can lead him astray

 



Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 5:10am
Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by salman_s


what is your religion ak_m_f ?



Salman,
I am an orthodox Jew. My mission on this forum is to convert you to Judaism.


hope this helps.

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 6:31am
Originally posted by Lameese

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by salman_s


what is your religion ak_m_f ?



Salman,
I am an orthodox Jew. My mission on this forum is to convert you to Judaism.


hope this helps.

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

ak_m_f says he is a jew. what is there to laugh?

 



Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 6:38am

Because it was funny. His mission is to convert us? Nevermind, it was just halarious to me.

 

Lameese



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:09am
Originally posted by salman_s

i knew this but i was not able to explain as you did



Then it means that you didnt knew it

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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 7:50am
Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by salman_s

i knew this but i was not able to explain as you did



Then it means that you didnt knew it

y do u think so? can u explain how u came 2 this conclusion?

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain

Allah knows best

 



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 8:35am
Originally posted by salman_s

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain


Allah knows best


 



yes Salman its called communication problem


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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 8:47am

Originally posted by salman_s

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain

Like when you posted that tribute to Zarqawi... You knew it was wrong but you can't explain why you posted it...

 



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Colin

Originally posted by salman_s

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain


Like when you posted that tribute to Zarqawi... You knew it was wrong but you can't explain why you posted it...


 



he was following orders, you dont question them Colin.


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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Colin

Originally posted by salman_s

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain

Like when you posted that tribute to Zarqawi... You knew it was wrong but you can't explain why you posted it...

oh really?

Allah knows best what is right and what is wrong

i could very well respond back to you regarding zarqawi's topic but i won't do so because i would like to maintain peace in this forum

  



Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:16am
Originally posted by salman_s

Originally posted by Colin

Originally posted by salman_s

there r some things which v know but v r not able to explain

Like when you posted that tribute to Zarqawi... You knew it was wrong but you can't explain why you posted it...

oh really?

Allah knows best what is right and what is wrong

i could very well respond back to you regarding zarqawi's topic but i won't do so because i would like to maintain peace in this forum

More like you want to maintain Salman on this forum...

 

 



Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:24am
A tip for Salman. If you really want to maintain forum peace, don't post tributes to terrorists and don't use the "Allah Knows best" routine to hide your tacit support for a terrorist. Just remember this Salman, Zarqawi claimed responsibility for the three hotel bombs in Jordan's capital... these bombs killed 60 people, mostly innocent Muslims.


Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:43am

Allah knows best what is right and what is wrong

you make your own judgement colin, i don't make my own judgement, i leave my judgement to Allah, as Allah judges the best

 

 

 



Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 11:02am
Originally posted by salman_s

Allah knows best what is right and what is wrong

you make your own judgement colin, i don't make my own judgement, i leave my judgement to Allah, as Allah judges the best

Another very important tip for Salman: Please read your Qur'an..... carefully.



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by salman_s

i don't make my own judgement


This not entirely true, Does God talks you to like Moses?
If not then how can to take advice from God?

You make your own judgement and you will be responsible for it.



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Posted By: foody
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 3:34pm
Ok this topic have went OFF topic and already my question answered, thank you everyone. I think it should be closed however.


Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Colin

Originally posted by salman_s

Allah knows best what is right and what is wrong

you make your own judgement colin, i don't make my own judgement, i leave my judgement to Allah, as Allah judges the best

Another very important tip for Salman: Please read your Qur'an..... carefully.

masha Allah i recite the Qur'an ....and i read the english translation.....

colin, i think you have never read the translation of the Qur'an....my suggestion is that you read the translation of the Qur'an insha Allah

 

 



Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by salman_s

masha Allah i recite the Qur'an ....and i read the english translation.....

Then you should know that it specifically forbids the killing of civilians. Zarqawi claimed responsibility for the 3 hotel bombs in Jordan's capital, Amman, which left 60 (Mainly Muslim) civilians dead. So why do you post tributes to him and why do you use the "Allah knows best" response when it is so obvious that his actions are against the teachings of the Qur'an?

 



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Colin

Originally posted by salman_s

masha Allah i recite the Qur'an ....and i read the english translation.....

Then you should know that it specifically forbids the killing of civilians. Zarqawi claimed responsibility for the 3 hotel bombs in Jordan's capital, Amman, which left 60 (Mainly Muslim) civilians dead. So why do you post tributes to him and why do you use the "Allah knows best" response when it is so obvious that his actions are against the teachings of the Qur'an?

 

because Allah says in the Qur'an-

Allah forgives Whom He wills and Allah punishes Whom He wills

 

Originally posted by Colin

why do use use the "Allah knows best" response

because Allah says in the Qur'an-

Allah is The All-Knower of the unseen and the seen

Allah is The All-Knower of all the things

Allah knows best

 

 



Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:43pm
Forget it colin, you cant reason with salman.


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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 10:55pm

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Forget it colin, you cant reason with salman.

Alas, I think you are correct AK. Salman seems to be indicating that he's happy to accept specific teachings from the Qur'an... but only when they fit in with his particular worldview. If they go against what he believes, he simply excuses himself with the "Allah knows best" routine. Very sad.



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 11:04pm

i think colin u did not read my last post on page 4 in this topic

read it....

 

 



Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 11:20pm

 

I wise man once said: The first thing you should do when you find yourself in a hole...........stop digging!



Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Colin

 

I wise man once said: The first thing you should do when you find yourself in a hole...........stop digging!

oh really? .....

 

 




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