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Islam - Arabic

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Discription: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=374
Printed Date: 23 April 2014 at 12:59pm


Topic: Islam - Arabic
Posted By: ChrisNo1
Subject: Islam - Arabic
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:14pm

Hello Everyone, peace be with your all or in arabic Salamailakum

Hello, I just wanted to know why 'arabic' is such an important element in islam. Arabic however is only a language. I am not saying its a bad language and that its not rich! Love, Peace, Submition can be expressed in all languages.

Mosques quote the Qu'ran in arabic, and say their prayers in Arabic. This is ofcourse understandable in the middle east were most people speak arabic.

When I went to Turkey the mosques said there prayers in 'Arabic' but most Turks I met didn't understand a thing except for a few words. That also extends to other muslim in non arabic-countries.

My girlfriend who is Turkish knows all the arabic prayers but doesn't have a clue what they mean (word for word). This means the prayer is void because the person saying the word feels nothing. If it was said in their own language then the prayer would allow that person to relate to it more.

Maybe I am arrogant and I'm missing something here. I understand that It's nice because Mohammed spoke the language and all the other prophets spoke semetic languages.

If anyone can explain please do?




Replies:
Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:22pm

There is also another point I would like to add. Most people I know who converted to Islam changed their name in favour for a Muslim name.

The thing I can't understand is that Arabic names existed before Islam. So their Arabic names. The arabic names are translations of prophets names from Hebrew or aramaic. If this is not the case please explain.

If I converted to islam why would I have to change/ or feel that I have to change my name! If the point of changing my name is a sacrifice or submission then why couldn't i change my name to an english equivalant. i.e. Ibrihim - abraham?

I am not judging your religion, just trying to understand!

 



Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:23pm

When any text is translated from one language to another, the meaning is necessarily affected. This is the nature of language: there is not a one to one correspondence of meaning. Thus, the Holy Qur'an should be learned in Arabic so that its full meaning is understood.

On the other hand, what you mention about people knowing the Arabic text without knowing the meaning of that text is perhaps worse. The ideal situation would be for a devoted Muslim to learn Arabic while studying the Holy Qur'an in their native language until such time Insha'Allah that they can understand the Arabic text.



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Yusuf


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

There is also another point I would like to add. Most people I know who converted to Islam changed their name in favour for a Muslim name.

The thing I can't understand is that Arabic names existed before Islam. So their Arabic names. The arabic names are translations of prophets names from Hebrew or aramaic. If this is not the case please explain.

If I converted to islam why would I have to change/ or feel that I have to change my name! If the point of changing my name is a sacrifice or submission then why couldn't i change my name to an english equivalant. i.e. Ibrihim - abraham?

I am not judging your religion, just trying to understand!

 

This is a personal preference that reflects the desire to "have a new start." There is absolutely no requirement that one do it, and I know many reverts to Islam who have chosen not to.



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Yusuf


Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:27pm

If I created a book for cooking with receipes and it was translated, I might not be able to get a 'Pure' word for word translation but the receipe is still there. Surely if the Qu'ran is taught in native tongues the receipe is still there!



Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

If I created a book for cooking with receipes and it was translated, I might not be able to get a 'Pure' word for word translation but the receipe is still there. Surely if the Qu'ran is taught in native tongues the receipe is still there!

That's not a fair comparison. a recipe is a rather simplistic affair. the language of the Holy Qur'an is very subtle; additionally, word formation in Arabic is quite different than in English. for example, there is no past, present, or future tense in arabic. there is also a voice called the "medio-passive," which is halfway between the active and passive voice in english.



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Yusuf


Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:40pm

I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated!

If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English!



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:43pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

If I created a book for cooking with receipes and it was translated, I might not be able to get a 'Pure' word for word translation but the receipe is still there. Surely if the Qu'ran is taught in native tongues the receipe is still there!

Dear Chris,

Quran is not a book of recepies or just straightforward/mathematical formulas.

It depends on the nature of the text that is being translated. Do you expect poetry to be translated without loss of meaning?

For that matter, even some jokes cannot create the complete desired effect when they are brought from one language to another.

There are some laws and rules in Quran, which i believe can be conveyed, in other languages, as there lived scholars int all times who have studied and written about these in their languages. However the spiritual aspects cannot be transported completely in English or any other language, without having a text alongside to explain it further.

Quran is the book that has been translated in maximum number of languages. This is so, because it is not in the capacity or means of everyone to learn arabic, and then understand the Quran. However, a translated text, helps a great deal, and solves the purpose.

So it is not that doing a  translation or reading it for the purpose of guidance is a totally redundant exercise. However for those who wish to and desire to understand the book in its complete depths, it is advisable to learn arabic and then study The Book, as it was revealed. It needs to be mentioned however, that understanding of Quran takes a lot of exercise and effort, just reading the original or the translation cannot be sufficient. it can help in reflection, but for a deeper understanding, one needs to "study" the Book. 

Peace,

Nausheen



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated!

If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English!

With all due respect, how many languages do you speak?

As for "translations" of the Holy Qur'an, they are generally referred to as "interpretations." If you compare them, you can see that there is no complete agreement on even the most fundamental questions. For example, the Arabic term "taqwa," which is often translated as "fear," but the word is derived from "waqaa," which means "to preserve." A "waaqii" is a person who is safe. "taqwa" is derived by the prefixation of "'at," which is a medio-reflexive prefix. Thus, "taqwa" is the state of security attained through one's preservation of something. In the Holy Qur'an, this is further defined by context to mean "the attaining of security by preserving one's awareness of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala." What English word means that?



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Yusuf


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:50pm

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.



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Yusuf


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:41pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

Originally posted by Yusuf.

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.

Wa iyakum, Yaakhi. I could not be better than you, as you know arabic.

I have the chance and honor to study some protions of the Quran from a knowledgeable scholar who is well versed in Arabic and tafsir Quran.

It is amazing how he spent hours to explain just the seven verses of surat al fatiha. After which he said, he could not do complete justice to the meanings of the surah. He gave us references that contain more than 200 pages of tafsir on these seven verses. Subhan allah!

When we read ppl wondering if a translation could be sufficient, the real thrist for knowledge is wanting.

May allah guide us all upright.

[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:46pm

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

You go on further to translate a word in Arabic and ask what English the english equivalant is? Well you gave a discription of what "taqwa" and other words say "There are no english words that can translate it" Nevertheless you was able to give me an discription in English of the words meaning, so i was able to get some idea.

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

 



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:56pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

All your points were covered and explained in my post. I guess you missed the messege entirely. Go to page one of this thread and you will find it

Peace,

Nausheen



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

I love both those languages and wish you great success. Otherwise, I don't really dispute anything you're saying. I would not want to see any single language replace the many wonderful languages of the people of the earth.



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Yusuf


Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:37am
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

Hello Everyone, peace be with your all or in arabic Salamailakum

Hello, I just wanted to know why 'arabic' is such an important element in islam. Arabic however is only a language. I am not saying its a bad language and that its not rich! Love, Peace, Submition can be expressed in all languages.

Mosques quote the Qu'ran in arabic, and say their prayers in Arabic. This is ofcourse understandable in the middle east were most people speak arabic.

When I went to Turkey the mosques said there prayers in 'Arabic' but most Turks I met didn't understand a thing except for a few words. That also extends to other muslim in non arabic-countries.

My girlfriend who is Turkish knows all the arabic prayers but doesn't have a clue what they mean (word for word). This means the prayer is void because the person saying the word feels nothing. If it was said in their own language then the prayer would allow that person to relate to it more.

Maybe I am arrogant and I'm missing something here. I understand that It's nice because Mohammed spoke the language and all the other prophets spoke semetic languages.

If anyone can explain please do?

According to what little I know, Arabic is the the Original language of Allah. It is the finest, most mathematically precise language. No mistakes can be claimed because the exact thought of Allah is given.



Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:20pm

Maths can be performed procise in any language if I'm not mistaken. Programming languages used for huge mathematical functions are usually written in part - english!

If you are saying there are codes written within the writing in the Qu'ran then someone who knows arabic wouldn't be able to see or work out the Maths!

The languages of all the great prophets was not arabic, and one of the greatest 'Isa' was not arabic. Arabic was the chosen language because of Mohammed! If Mohammed lived in the Urkrain then Ukrainian would be the Chosen language for the Qu'ran.

If you say Arabic is the most finest language in the world then there would be some debate on that! I'm not saying It's a bad language, I think people outside of Islam wouldn't always agree.

 

 

 

 



Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 05 April 2005 at 4:48am
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

Maths can be performed procise in any language if I'm not mistaken. Programming languages used for huge mathematical functions are usually written in part - english!

If you are saying there are codes written within the writing in the Qu'ran then someone who knows arabic wouldn't be able to see or work out the Maths!

The languages of all the great prophets was not arabic, and one of the greatest 'Isa' was not arabic. Arabic was the chosen language because of Mohammed! If Mohammed lived in the Urkrain then Ukrainian would be the Chosen language for the Qu'ran.

If you say Arabic is the most finest language in the world then there would be some debate on that! I'm not saying It's a bad language, I think people outside of Islam wouldn't always agree.

All of the prophets spoke either Arabic or a dialect thereof, i.e. Aramaic and Hebrew. And there were no computer programmers when the Books were written, nor when they were revealed. And yet, the language used is perfect.

If you think you can do better than Allah, then let us see you write a book that can compare to the Holy Quran. And if you cannot, then write just one chapter that compares. And if you cannot, and you surely cannot, then know Allah is God and there is no God beside Him.

As for computer programming languages, they are so very inaccurate and mathematically imperfect that every program written has major flaws (bugs). I know because I am a programmer. Sorry, but your arguement fails under scrutiny.

I really don't care whether you believe or disbelieve, it is immaterial with me. Take it, or let it alone.

29. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the disbelievers, compassionate among themselves. Thou seest them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking Allahís grace and pleasure. Their marks are on their faces in consequence of prostration. That is their description in the Torah -- and their description in the Gospel -- like seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers on account of them. Allah has promised such of them as believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.



Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 05 April 2005 at 5:48pm

To ask whether I can do better than Allah is pretty stupid considering I never implied I could. You are absolutely correct about programming languages having flaws but my argument wasnít if the Quíran had a flaw or not! The point I was trying to make is Arabic was spoken before the Prophet Mohammadís birth, A time when the Arab tribes were worshiping pagan Gods! God chose Mohammad because he was the right man to do the Job! Allah didnít teach Mohammed a new holy language, Allah communicated to him through the language he already knew which was ĎArabicí. To say Arabic is scientifically the most precise and perfect language would need some real study! If your point is the Quíran is perfect because Allah created it then you would have a point. But please bear in mind, If Allah created the Quíran in any language i.e. Zulu, French or English it would still be perfect because God can make things that are impossible - possible!



Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 06 April 2005 at 5:14am
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

To ask whether I can do better than Allah is pretty stupid considering I never implied I could. You are absolutely correct about programming languages having flaws but my argument wasnít if the Quíran had a flaw or not! The point I was trying to make is Arabic was spoken before the Prophet Mohammadís birth, A time when the Arab tribes were worshiping pagan Gods! God chose Mohammad because he was the right man to do the Job! Allah didnít teach Mohammed a new holy language, Allah communicated to him through the language he already knew which was ĎArabicí. To say Arabic is scientifically the most precise and perfect language would need some real study! If your point is the Quíran is perfect because Allah created it then you would have a point. But please bear in mind, If Allah created the Quíran in any language i.e. Zulu, French or English it would still be perfect because God can make things that are impossible - possible!

Actually, every Muslim here can bear witness that when I said, "If you think you can do better than Allah, then let us see you write a book that can compare to the Holy Quran. And if you cannot, then write just one chapter that compares. And if you cannot, and you surely cannot, then know Allah is God and there is no God beside Him.", that I was quoting from Allah's arguement that he gave to Muhammad (saw) to defeat the arguements of his enemies.

Your problem is not with me. You are really angry with Allah over how He decided to write His Book. So, go and fight against Allah if you want to. I will not fight over you over this.

For you is what you earn, and for me is what I earn.

If you choose Islam for yourself, good for you.

Best of luck.



Posted By: ChrisNo1
Date Posted: 06 April 2005 at 3:52pm

Actually, every Muslim here can bear witness that when I said, "If you think you can do better than Allah, then let us see you write a book that can compare to the Holy Quran. And if you cannot, then write just one chapter that compares. And if you cannot, and you surely cannot, then know Allah is God and there is no God beside Him.", that I was quoting from Allah's arguement that he gave to Muhammad (saw) to defeat the arguements of his enemies.

Your problem is not with me. You are really angry with Allah over how He decided to write His Book. So, go and fight against Allah if you want to. I will not fight over you over this.

For you is what you earn, and for me is what I earn.

If you choose Islam for yourself, good for you.

Best of luck.

[/QUOTE]

Questions are a natural phenomena when wanting to know information on a religion, that shouldnít offend you blond. It doesnít mean I want a fight with you or Allah! If you cannot answer my question blond then please just say you canít.

Donít tell me Arabic is the most precise language known to man kind without any evidence except the Koran! Like I said, God can make any book precise through any language! Asking me whether I can write a better book than the Koran is nonsense, the Koran whether you believe it or not will always be unique book through the end of time.

I will ask you a question do you think you could write a better book than the bible? Well itís obvious you canít, so is that proof for you to become a Christian? I thought not. Everybody on this board has answered my questions and there points have been valid, yours however are not! When answering questions please Donít compare me to God, and Donít tell me the Koran is proof! Just answer the question and if not move along.

Thanks

 



Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 07 April 2005 at 8:50am
Originally posted by ChrisNo1

Actually, every Muslim here can bear witness that when I said, "If you think you can do better than Allah, then let us see you write a book that can compare to the Holy Quran. And if you cannot, then write just one chapter that compares. And if you cannot, and you surely cannot, then know Allah is God and there is no God beside Him.", that I was quoting from Allah's arguement that he gave to Muhammad (saw) to defeat the arguements of his enemies.

Your problem is not with me. You are really angry with Allah over how He decided to write His Book. So, go and fight against Allah if you want to. I will not fight over you over this.

For you is what you earn, and for me is what I earn.

If you choose Islam for yourself, good for you.

Best of luck.

Questions are a natural phenomena when wanting to know information on a religion, that shouldnít offend you blond. It doesnít mean I want a fight with you or Allah! If you cannot answer my question blond then please just say you canít.

Donít tell me Arabic is the most precise language known to man kind without any evidence except the Koran! Like I said, God can make any book precise through any language! Asking me whether I can write a better book than the Koran is nonsense, the Koran whether you believe it or not will always be unique book through the end of time.

I will ask you a question do you think you could write a better book than the bible? Well itís obvious you canít, so is that proof for you to become a Christian? I thought not. Everybody on this board has answered my questions and there points have been valid, yours however are not! When answering questions please Donít compare me to God, and Donít tell me the Koran is proof! Just answer the question and if not move along.

Thanks

 

[/QUOTE]

Ok.



Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 07 April 2005 at 10:29am

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

I think we are missing a very important point here. We are only required to recite the Glorious Qur'an in Arabic in Salah. The most important pillar after Shahadah is Salah which we pray five times daily. The beauty of Salah is that any Muslim can perform his Salah in any Masjid anywhere in the world and it will be the same as if he was performing his Salah in his own local Masjid.

Once each nationality start substituting the Qur'an recitation in their local language the unity is gone.

During the pilgrimage season in what language will u want the Imam to perform the prayers. There are millions of people speaking millions of languages and the languages in turn have zillion dialect so what language does the Imam choose. What chaos?  

The Qur'an is the binding force that unites the Muslim into one Ummah.  It is the duty of each and every Muslim to learn its translation in his own language to understand and implement the teachings.

During Salah is the only time we are required to recite the Glorious Qur'an in Arabic. The rest of the time we can read translations along side the Arabic text.  The Glorious Qur'an was revealed in Arabic by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala to His last Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) and He has instructed us to pray this way. It is that simple.



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ďVerily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-Aníam 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)



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