Print Page | Close Window

The terrorist

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Conspiracy Theories
Forum Discription: Theories that may or maynot bear relevance
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3049
Printed Date: 24 July 2014 at 8:37am


Topic: The terrorist
Posted By: Community
Subject: The terrorist
Date Posted: 20 November 2005 at 9:36pm

The terrorist is he who tries to instill fear in people as to achieve political goals. This he does through acts of violence.

A terrorist uses violence against non military people out of weakness, he is not opressed but an opressor and would opress others, poor and weak people into doing suicide bombings under threat of the life of his family and with the promise of that his family will be looked after if he does commit the terrorist attack. Some refuse and they get killed and their families too, and others choose to do it to save their family. Do not think this kind of stuff does not happen because it does. A terrorist instills fear in people for their lives to gain political goals, this automatically makes a terrorist a taghoot(one who forces himself on people to be obeyed)

Allah says in the koran that we should disbelieve in the taghoot and have faith in Allah, but when a taghoot starts killing people, and people start killing people in the way of a taghoot the faithful need to rise up and fight against them in the way of Allah.

Usually a taghoot has a methodology or a certain theory which he forces upon people to be followed, for this he uses misplaced fears(making them believe that if they do not as he says something bad will happen to them), confusing them with half truths and rewarding them for their obedience with a smile and punishing them by turning the group against them if they diviate from his methodology, you have these kind of taghoot in the christian, jewish, muslim, atheist and whatever other peoples there are in the world.

It is possible to disbelieve in a taghoot when one is truthful, but the problem is when a taghoot does not tollerate disobedience and threatens and kills those who disbelieve him and his words. Such a taghoot has Allah as his enemy and the faithful. The prophet faced the same kind of opressors and he fought them only after they started killing those who disbelieved in them(the faithful).




Replies:
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 20 November 2005 at 9:44pm

To disbelieve in the taghoot means to have faith in Allah, The Merciful. And fearing Him alone. If you believe the faithful are under threat of being eradicated then i ask you who is your Lord? My Lord saves the faithful in this life and the next. No one is more merciful then Him no matter how merciful that person may be, He is always greater. It is not the faithful who are under threat, it is the opressors and those who side with opressors and are willing to fight in their way. The threat is not from the west or from the east because both are under the full control of The Merciful. Nothing happens except by His will, and the threat is from His side that you may come to fear Him alone.



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 20 November 2005 at 10:06pm

The problem of alot of people is that they do not get that He is The Merciful so He gives to whom He wishes and He knows best who is guided. Allah already said that if the arabs do not do His affair He would give it to another people, and they will not be their like. The affair is also rising up against opressors and not fearing death but seeking betterment for the world. This Europeans did, when they rose up against the opressive kings and the opressive church even though alot of these brave men and women died, they died for a righteous cause, the cause of freedom, and yes some of them where ofcourse from the faithful, and Allah says in the koran:"the power belongs to Allah, the sent one and the faithful". His words do not apply to only the time of the prophet, but it was this way and has been like this since the beginning.

7:35 O ye Children of Adam! wether there come to you sent ones (rusulun) from you, rehearsing My signs unto you,- those who become concious(fear) and mend, on them is no fear nor do they grieve.

Ya banee adama imma yatiyannakum rusulun minkum yaqussoona AAalaykum ayatee famani ittaqa waaslaha fala khawfun AAalayhim wala hum yahzanoona

How many people who came with the truth have been killed in the islamic world because the esteblishment saw them as a threat? how many have been labeled as dajjals(false) and killed? do you fear the words told to you by religious scholars or do you fear Allah right now? are you not reminded now?

You think that the history you are taught is the true history? let me tell you that those who came with the truth and have been killed or had to flee because of the opressors, are not found in the "islamic" history books, what is taught to you is what was tollerated by the religious esteblishment(put in place by opressors) or was favorable to these esteblishments. They had centuries to blot them out o you people, don't you understand? But Allah is my witness when i say, the power belongs to Allah, the messenger and the faithful and that this never stopped and never ended. And all His enemies will be defeated, and that the righteous(the fit) inherrit the earth.

 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 November 2005 at 11:51pm

My most loveable Neo Con Professor, substantiate this:

A terrorist uses violence against non military people out of weakness, he is not opressed but an opressor and would opress others, poor and weak people into doing suicide bombings under threat of the life of his family and with the promise of that his family will be looked after if he does commit the terrorist attack. Some refuse and they get killed and their families too, and others choose to do it to save their family. Do not think this kind of stuff does not happen because it does. A terrorist instills fear in people for their lives to gain political goals, this automatically makes a terrorist a taghoot(one who forces himself on people to be obeyed)

Also prove to us that you are the One and the ONLY who knows true history.

You accused me of posting "Karl is the messenger of Allah" very recently in another string. I challenged you there thrice to SUBSTANTIATE your claim. You have not been seen in that thread since.

SUBSTANTIATE, Professor Taghoot Community, SUBSTANTIATE all of the above for your own benefit. Right now, you hold minus zero credibility with this board.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 November 2005 at 11:59pm

A terrorist instills fear in people for their lives to gain political goals, this automatically makes a terrorist a taghoot(one who forces himself on people to be obeyed)

Thank you again for proving my point, my most loveable Professor Taghoot Community. Those who bomb people from 52,000 feet and set up SHOCK & AWE technology are the bigger terrorists?

No?

And, you when you scare us by twisting ayaats and telling s point blank: "Thou shalt be ruined" ??



Posted By: voiceoftawheed
Date Posted: 21 November 2005 at 7:58am
'A terrorist uses violence against non military people out of weakness, he is not opressed but an opressor and would opress others, poor and weak people into doing suicide bombings under threat of the life of his family and with the promise of that his family will be looked after if he does commit the terrorist attack. Some refuse and they get killed and their families too, and others choose to do it to save their family. Do not think this kind of stuff does not happen because it does. A terrorist instills fear in people for their lives to gain political goals, this automatically makes a terrorist a taghoot(one who forces himself on people to be obeyed)'

They are the kinds of OBL and his contemporaries who have achieved a higher position in their field. I have no favour for them who mislead people in such way.

'To disbelieve in the taghoot means to have faith in Allah, The Merciful. And fearing Him alone. If you believe the faithful are under threat of being eradicated then i ask you who is your Lord?'

Nowhere in my article i have said to keep faith in the taghoots. Rather i have described the situations when an oppressed turns into a desperate assailant and becomes a member of the taghoot society. Keep yourself in his position and try to comment on. Because, sitting in a cosy chair in an AC room anybody can utter such broadminded lectures.

This is not necessary to remind me of who is my Lord and whom He will save. Still, threat is a threat, whether you are a faithful or an unfaithful. Why, our Rasulullah (SAW) was not under threat? He had to take shelter in a cave even. But He was the chosen one and Allah's friend, and no doubtly Allah saves those who are righteously faithful to Him.

So what do you suggest a faithful person to do when his life is at stake. To sit idle and face the assault with bare hand? Definitely Allah has the supreme power and ability to save anybody then also. But my dear friend, do you consider our Imaan is that powerful? Ask yourself first.

'You think that the history you are taught is the true history?'

Oh..i see..? So, we have been taught wrongly throughout the centuries? Where you've found the real-true history of Islam? Have you been the moderator of that history also? Please, let us have a copy of that. Do you also need a copy of that, Whisper?


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 21 November 2005 at 9:54am

Oh..i see..?

Akhi el aziz, you will see a whole lot when you see our Hazrat Professor Neo Con Community's previous posts.

We need not respond to anything that he says, half the time even he doesn't know what he is saying. He gets the ayaats from some CD and twists them to suit Donald Rumsfeld.



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 21 November 2005 at 1:34pm

Originally posted by voiceoftawheed

'A terrorist uses violence against non military people out of weakness, he is not opressed but an opressor and would opress others, poor and weak people into doing suicide bombings under threat of the life of his family and with the promise of that his family will be looked after if he does commit the terrorist attack. Some refuse and they get killed and their families too, and others choose to do it to save their family. Do not think this kind of stuff does not happen because it does. A terrorist instills fear in people for their lives to gain political goals, this automatically makes a terrorist a taghoot(one who forces himself on people to be obeyed)'

They are the kinds of OBL and his contemporaries who have achieved a higher position in their field. I have no favour for them who mislead people in such way.

'To disbelieve in the taghoot means to have faith in Allah, The Merciful. And fearing Him alone. If you believe the faithful are under threat of being eradicated then i ask you who is your Lord?'

Nowhere in my article i have said to keep faith in the taghoots. Rather i have described the situations when an oppressed turns into a desperate assailant and becomes a member of the taghoot society. Keep yourself in his position and try to comment on. Because, sitting in a cosy chair in an AC room anybody can utter such broadminded lectures.

Well ofcourse you do not say to keep faith in taghoots, i do not hold you for an idiot. But the excuse of someone turning into a terrorist because of opression is no excuse for the faithful, the prophet was persecuted and had to flee but he did not act unjustly towards anyone, not even the opressors. Why? because he did not fear anyone except Allah, and this made him just. When he was in the cave with his companion he said:"do not fear, Allah is with us." muslimeen should try to make sure Allah is with them, and realize desperation comes from taking the wrong awliyaa and perceiving the truth as something bad instead of something good. 

Originally posted by voiceoftawheed


So what do you suggest a faithful person to do when his life is at stake. To sit idle and face the assault with bare hand? Definitely Allah has the supreme power and ability to save anybody then also. But my dear friend, do you consider our Imaan is that powerful? Ask yourself first.

First of all fear Allah alone and not death or any other thing, take a good look at whom this violence is directed. And then stand for justice even against your ownselves. And if you lost hope for the protection of Allah, then fear Him instead of taking matters into your own hands for protection and realize there is no protection outside of Him.


Originally posted by voiceoftawheed


'You think that the history you are taught is the true history?'

Oh..i see..? So, we have been taught wrongly throughout the centuries? Where you've found the real-true history of Islam? Have you been the moderator of that history also? Please, let us have a copy of that.

Once the islamic world was ahead in the fields of science and socially on a higher moral level then the west, they lost this. Why?

It is easy to just put the blame on the west and them colonizing the islamic world, but they would never have been able to colonize the islamic world had they not become corrupted. You see an army of a dictator is run by fear, because a dictator is constantly on his guard against his own army lest they overthrow him, so what he does is put officers in place he believes are loyal to him, and these officers rule through fear amongst the ranks of those who are under them, this kind of army does not function in terms of respect and defence of a greater good, but rather in defence of the dictator and his esteblishment by the officers, and fear for the officers by the soldiers. This kind of army proves very ineffective in a defencive war when the threat of death becomes greater, because soldiers will become cowardly and run while their officers have not much control over them when the threat of death becomes greater then their threats. So the islamic world became colonized. The military of a nation is a reflection of a society. And religious esteblishments where put in place by rulers and wiped out anyone they saw as a threat. Even history.

Now the prophet and the faithful also faced rulers and their religious esteblishments, these persecuted them and killed them because they perceived them as a threat to their power.

Now we all know the extent of corruption in the islamic world, this is not because of the west. You can not blame someone else for your own choices. It is very difficult to fix this problem, but also very easy at the same time. The sollution lays in freedom, and not the threat of being killed by some religious figures or other when what is said is labeled as pro western or even zionistic by religious scholars and their rulers who put them in place to protect their power.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 21 November 2005 at 4:15pm

Is it very Islamic to accuse someone of some quite serious matter and then slip away from the thread when challenged?

Professor Community, substantiate your charge that I called Karl Marx a messenger of Allah. You have accused me of that and the onus is on you to prove.

Till you substantiate your charge levelled against me, you are a bogus professor, a liar without any dignity and a forger of ayaats.



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 21 November 2005 at 8:06pm

Whisper, you called me all kind of things from hypocrite to neo con to a liar, a distorter and even told me i would be burned in afghanistan for my opinions, you twisted my words around at numerous occasion but i never whined around for you to set them right. I would not dare to do such a thing since it is your responsibility to receive my words in the best light or be unable to receive them in a good light because of what you think i might be after or what i might be, it is your responsibility to come to an understanding like it is my responsibility. So now you talk to me about the islamic way of doing things?

but you do cause me to think and consider that there are people around who hold the same kind of views like you, this is not an insult by the way, because it causes me to come to a better understanding.

So here is what you said in a previous post in current events,

 

Posted: 21 August 2005 at 5:59am

[Quote]

I took this point up with our Khalifeh Majaz (Deputy Plenipotentiary) when I returned home after a good few years at the 60s and 70s London scene. It's sad that even our own devotees refused to accept Marx el Rasool Allah in their kalimeh. [End quote]

 

I did not read what came after it at first,

 

[Quote]

Thank goodness, we are quite happy with whatever we have got. We have yet not started to miss any special Tin Gods or Plastic Temples of the great Global Market place. [End Quote]

 

So i guess you were being sarcastic again which caused me to come to such a conclusion, lose the sarcasm maybe that will be a cause for clearity.

 

So there you have it, not that i expect anything like this from you, but it would be apreciated if you did "Cease" your guessing and efforts to label me other then one who submits for the sake of peace(muslim)



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 22 November 2005 at 2:21am

It's sad that even our own devotees refused to accept Marx el Rasool Allah in their kalimeh.

My friend, that proves my point that we would not accept anyone from either side of the divide to replace our faith. We believe in the message brought to us by Rasool Allah. That's why we find it extremely difficult (in fact, impossible) to accept the divinity of Market Place or the dollar.

I have no problems with you other than your use of the ayaats to justify invasions and occupations. At times, you seem to re-invent the Koraan. I am a simple straightforward Pathaan, we take this re-invention of the Koraan thing terribly seriously. In fact, even more seriously than we take occupations by the Ferenghi.

Plus, my friend, you hold no first hand experience of being occupied. So, when you advise people to move on or invite the occupiers home for Thursady night dinners and join the American army, you leaveme little choice but to place you in the occupiers' basket.

Have you ever seen me quoting the Koraan to support my point or my credibilty? Ever?

Now let me give you a big shock. He wakes me up at the crack of Fajr each morning, in best of health, spirit and what ever else you could count. I was allowed the saddat of Hajj in 1997. I am responsible for 28 Schools (with Darul Shafqaats - Affection Centres. We don't agree with that cold word; orphanages) in three countries. A 500 acre Islamia University is now being completed in Pakistan. I have all the time in my life to read the Koraan and I do as much as I could.

But my faith is my personal matter. I do not go about plastering it or my "knowledge" of my faith around for any reason at all - least of all to gain credibility or in order to "kill" a few points with it.

Your knowledge of the Koraan is your own affair. Please, be very kind and keep it for yourself and let us, the poor invaded and the occupied, deal with what we are facing in our own way.

If you really don't like the situation in Iraq or this global terror, please, knock at Dick Cheney's door for he was the one who thought that Iraq was doable.

My best regards



Posted By: voiceoftawheed
Date Posted: 22 November 2005 at 10:13am
Originally posted by Community

First of all fear Allah alone and not death or any other thing, take a good look at whom this violence is directed. And then stand for justice even against your ownselves. And if you lost hope for the protection of Allah, then fear Him instead of taking matters into your own hands for protection and realize there is no protection outside of Him.


Every Muslim must fear only Allah over anything else and should not loose hope from Him. But you are suggesting something like Iraq and Palestine should leave their country in to the hands of US and the Jews and wait for the angels to be sent by Allah Rabbul Alemeen to protect them and their belongings. You see, our Rasulullah (SAW) had also picked up sword to protect the Muslims. He had begged help from Allah to save the Muslims. Why not we then stand against the injustice being done to us? If we are righteously in His path we must conquire.

Originally posted by Community

Now the prophet and the faithful also faced rulers and their religious esteblishments, these persecuted them and killed them because they perceived them as a threat to their power.


Like wise, the west is also considering the Muslim nations as a threat to their country and in the name of regime change, destroying their economical and social balance by placing a puppet govt. and baring the Muslim women (as if Islam had been doing injustice to them).

Originally posted by Community

Now we all know the extent of corruption in the islamic world, this is not because of the west. You can not blame someone else for your own choices. It is very difficult to fix this problem, but also very easy at the same time. The sollution lays in freedom, and not the threat of being killed by some religious figures or other when what is said is labeled as pro western or even zionistic by religious scholars and their rulers who put them in place to protect their power.



Show me a place where there is no corruption. Is it found only in the West? Freedom from what? Well, freedom... This is the term the West has taught the world. Even they have set their daughters and sisters to enjoy the freedom of everything..., ...., ...., and sex. Sorry, we, the Muslims don't want such freedom. We believe only in the teachings of our Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (SAW), and the admirable religious scholars. The Muslims are never under the threat of any earthly creatures. They are made for triumph. The only thing we are lacking in is that, we have got some fellow Muslims who have sold their souls in to the hands of the enemy of Islam.


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 22 November 2005 at 12:53pm

Obviously you hold freedom as something unislamic, because you connect it to the indesency and sexuality of women?

Anyway not that it matters to you, but the prophet never fought for land or defending land, he fought for the defence of the faith and the faithful because of being attacked for their faith. The US is not fighting any people for their faith, but they are fighting those who justify their attacks based on their secterian beliefs. Nowhere in the koran will you be able to find one verse speaking about defending land. The Faith is the only thing worth defending if attacked because of it.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 23 November 2005 at 12:07pm

Nowhere in the koran will you be able to find one verse speaking about defending land. The Faith is the only thing worth defending if attacked because of it.

I agree with you, but what does it say if the land has people on it? And, what are you supposed to do if some other bastards attack you?

Just sit down like good fryable ducks and invite the marines for candle lit dinners?



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 23 November 2005 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Nowhere in the koran will you be able to find one verse speaking about defending land. The Faith is the only thing worth defending if attacked because of it.

I agree with you, but what does it say if the land has people on it? And, what are you supposed to do if some other bastards attack you?

Just sit down like good fryable ducks and invite the marines for candle lit dinners?

Well you defend yourself if you are attacked, but these wars are waged against specific groups hiding amongst civilian population and this should ofcourse make you question if these groups are wrongly attacked or if there is a justifiable way against them. I believe that the answer to these questions is what is the cause of where one will stand in the conflict, either as an enemy to the US or a peacemaker. and opposer of the hardcore terrorists and their supporters.

 

 



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 23 November 2005 at 3:27pm

and opposer of the hardcore terrorists and their supporters.

So, it's just a matter of "you are with us or against us"? Your statement implies that the US is just nothing but a peace maker and ONLY fighting the terrorists. Not working for their geo-political ends?

In some of your other posts, you contradict your own position. Now that you have taught me to work the Search option on this site, shall I fish out your posts or would you own up just a wee gently?

You want us to believe that the US has never been at the wrong end?



Posted By: DeExupery
Date Posted: 23 November 2005 at 11:04pm

Dear Whisper,

So what do you think about the Kurds? Their land are occupied by Iraq and Turks (and one other Middle Eastern Country which I forgot). Do you think they deserve to free themselves and justify if they do suicide bombing? do you support their fighting against the occupiers.

And if one day Bali and Papua feels oppressed by Indonesian Government (for your info, Indonesia consisted of many kingdoms in the past), and start the bombing and killing, will you justify them? Or do you perceive this case differently?

Fox



-------------
Io Sogno L'anime, Che Sono Sempre Libere (Il Divo)


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 24 November 2005 at 12:05am

You know, the word gharb means west in Arabic, and ghareeb means strange. These two words have a linguistic connection to eachother. The west is strange and the far west is even stranger.

About Bush's Famous "you are with us or with the terrorists", and i will put forward the logical way of thinking, you have to look at the context in which he said it, terrorists attack his country with a terrible blow, he only knows that those who executed this attack and those supporting them are wrong, and that the ideology behind such an attack can not be other then wrong. So he wishes to act against these people because they pose a threat, he may have wondered why but he does not see his nation deserving of such hatred and enimosity. Maybe he knew that a terrorist attack would happen, and maybe he and others even allowed it to happen, maybe he held the view that such an attack would happen anyway so he might aswell let it happen in this way and afterward act against those who justify this in their efforts to destroy of The US before they get their hands on a nuclear bomb and hit the US with that. I personally do not believe you should let a terrorist attack happen because of such considerations, but it is understandable, especially when there are other considerations also like oil. I believe that if one knows a terrorist attack will happen they should stop it, that to me is the right way of conduct, and if they attack with a nuclear bomb eventually which might have happened or might happen or not......it is difficult because alot of people in the US will call for a violent response with the use of nuclear bombs as an option, because they simply do not understand why people would want to destroy their free nation which fought for the liberation of other nations under opressors like Hitler, they know the history that their forefathers fought for their independence and freedom against the British rule and now face others who wish to destroy them and put the world under their opression(religious fundamentalism in this case)

I hope you do not take this wrongly.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 November 2005 at 10:00am

So what do you think about the Kurds? Their land are occupied by Iraq and Turks (and one other Middle Eastern Country which I forgot). Do you think they deserve to free themselves and justify if they do suicide bombing? do you support their fighting against the occupiers.

I hold man's Right of Self Determination above any interests or rights of the state. 

If anyone is being denied such basic fundamental rights anywhere in the world, I would support them in toto. I stand against all forms of occupation, perhaps, as some genetic disorder or a longstanding family tradition - my ancestor denounced Afghan occupations in 1751 (stepped down as the Afghan Military Governor of our Indian possessions), became a Naqshband scholar and established an order based on Absolute Equality of people of all faiths.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 November 2005 at 10:17am

I hope you do not take this wrongly.

I can't take everything you say, wrongly. Whenever you say anything worth cheering, I am the first one to shout congrats. I agree with your very just analysis. Just hope somehow the world becomes a wee better place. Some signs are appearing.




Print Page | Close Window