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One or ’Two’ Qur’an?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: Matters/topics, related to various sects, are discussed where only Muslims who may or may not belong to a sect take part.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=300
Printed Date: 01 October 2014 at 11:37am


Topic: One or ’Two’ Qur’an?
Posted By: Rehmat
Subject: One or ’Two’ Qur’an?
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 8:59am

Let me begin with my first post on Islamic interfaith – by aknowledging the fact that posting this article and defending the slander against such imminent Muslim scholars as Imam Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, Sheikh Qaradawi, and Imam Khomeini – I received ‘Kufr Fatwa’, and all my previous 200 posts were deleted by a particular Salafi website.

 

Many Sunni sectarians have been blaming Shi’ites for many centuries for possessing a ‘parallel Qur’an’ – Al-Kafi. In fact, whosoever claims that the Qur’an has been corrupted is an unbeliever according to the consensus of Muslim scholars and must be dissociated from the Ummah. But we should not hurry in accusing people because mere presence of these traditions does not mean it is a belief of theirs, also we should know their methodology concerning the interpretation of what they narrate.

 

This link explains the views of a Sunni scholar.

 

http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shiites.html - http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shiites.html

 



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You




Replies:
Posted By: Aliya
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:33am

shias do not follow a different Qur'an than sunnis (if you need verification please visit http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ - http://www.al-islam.org/quran/  which is a shia site and has Qur'an online including in Arabic)

Also shias do not claim other than Qur'an to be 100% sahih. Thus, while there are undoubtedly some weak hadith in the collection of Al-Kafi, shias do not claim them to be sahih, and only follow those that are in line with Qur'an



Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Aliya

shias do not follow a different Qur'an than sunnis (if you need verification please visit http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ - http://www.al-islam.org/quran/  which is a shia site and has Qur'an online including in Arabic)

Also shias do not claim other than Qur'an to be 100% sahih. Thus, while there are undoubtedly some weak hadith in the collection of Al-Kafi, shias do not claim them to be sahih, and only follow those that are in line with Qur'an

That was my point dear.

Wa Salaam



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: Aliya
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 11:33am
I do know  but thought I might briefly summarize the shia view. I too have been discriminated against on websites and e-mails groups because I am shia. It's sad when people would rather believe lies and slander than to search for the true beliefs of the shias by asking shias themselves.


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Rehmat

Let me begin with my first post on Islamic interfaith – by acknowledging the fact that posting this article and defending the slander against such imminent Muslim scholars as Imam Hassan al-Banna, Sayyid Qutb, Sheikh Qaradawi, and Imam Khomeini – I received ‘Kufr Fatwa’, and all my previous 200 posts were deleted by a particular Salafi website.

 

Many Sunni sectarians have been blaming Shi’ites for many centuries for possessing a ‘parallel Qur’an’ – Al-Kafi. In fact, whosoever claims that the Qur’an has been corrupted is an unbeliever according to the consensus of Muslim scholars and must be dissociated from the Ummah. But we should not hurry in accusing people because mere presence of these traditions does not mean it is a belief of theirs, also we should know their methodology concerning the interpretation of what they narrate.

This link explains the views of a Sunni scholar.

http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shiites.html - http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/shiites.html

 Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 Brother,i apologize;but today my mind is full of work..May i ask you a question?.Is there anyone accused  you while defending these scholars?;also why you were defending them?,because they have strong signs from the holy Qur'an;just talk from the objective references of the holy Qur'an,this is enough for you.My last question to you is this;why Abu Hanifa,Imam Shafii,Imam Ibn-i Hanbal,Imam Malik or Ibn Qatir,Maulana Maududi are not in the list?:),were they talking different from the holy Qur'an...these persons who did absorb Islam are lost their minds,Subhan'Alah;thet are all in dilemma while accusing the persons;they are accusing their hearts;they are suffering from heart pain that attacking to the opposite side..i wish Alla h will guide us to the right path;not mine,not yours;His Path.....

 Brother,if i have truly understood your statement;please be cool...because there are some groups in the islam world who mixed islam and their benefits on the same table and they are loving to depending on it instead of breaking the idols;as the Jews do well...if i have truly understood your words,please let me know...you are not the first man in the same situation;the first man in this situation was the last prophet Hz.Muhammed(s.a.v.s.) when He began talking about Tawhid where the believers had mixed the concepts....Wa Salaam....

 a note:i am talking about wisdom and tawhid ;not about shia sect...



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Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 3:14pm

Originally posted by Suleyman

....a note:i am talking about wisdom and tawhid ;not about shia sect...

Asslam-o-Aliakum

Well, they have their hatred for those scholars and Imams - And I have my love and respect for those scholars and Imams. They think that their is only way of Salvation - While I believe, as a Muslim I have to try my best - But my Salvation depends on the Mercy of Allah.

I am honoured to meet and learn from some of personalities flashing on your posting - Sayyid Maududi, Mian Tufail, Khurshid Ahmad - May Allah have mercy on all of them.

I was there when Sayyid Maududi was called 'Shia and Kafr' by Mufti of Deoband - for criticizing some of Hazrat Osman's (as) political action; I was there when Sayyid Maududi was sentenced to death by Pakistani military court for writing a book against Qadiani sect, etc.

I have been hounded by some sectarians for posting biography of Imam Khomeini (ra) - written by a Canadian journalist and posting something which praises the accomplishments of Hamas, Hezbullah and Islamic Iran.

And the list goes on...But I have no complaint, because I spend my time on Internet in the service of my Creator - And hope rewards from Him alone.

Wa Salaam.



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 8:30pm

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 Brother,i'll turn back to you after i have turned back from the job;we have got so much things to talk;warm welcome from me to you....Wa Salaam...



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Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 11:08am
brother,keep on the reading the board,you'll find the answers and the  moral...wa salaam...

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Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 1:24pm

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 Did you see how i break the tune of the thread,made it slow,broke it's concentration...no anger to me;some issues are so high to be discussed,especially about the sects claiming each other as the wrong persons without any sign...i should broke the concentration of the thread...i was knowing that it will cause sins and i succeeded...

 What about the other two thread,what can i do...may be a buggs bunny film inside of it will break the tune in the name of polarization...i should try... 

 



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Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Suleyman

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 Did you see how i break the tune of the thread,made it slow,broke it's concentration...no anger to me;some issues are so high to be discussed,especially about the sects claiming each other as the wrong persons without any sign...i should broke the concentration of the thread...i was knowing that it will cause sins and i succeeded...

 What about the other two thread,what can i do...may be a buggs bunny film inside of it will break the tune in the name of polarization...i should try... 

Wa Salaam

Very smart move - Hove to kill a mocking bird, eh!

However, if there are going to be an Intersect Dialogue - someone got to swallow the bitter pills - Fatwas, that's

What would you suggest - Should I open another can of worms or a the Bible say: Let the dead bury themselves!



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 8:03am
Originally posted by Aliya

shias do not follow a different Qur'an than sunnis (if you need verification please visit http://www.al-islam.org/quran/ - http://www.al-islam.org/quran/  which is a shia site and has Qur'an online including in Arabic)

Also shias do not claim other than Qur'an to be 100% sahih. Thus, while there are undoubtedly some weak hadith in the collection of Al-Kafi, shias do not claim them to be sahih, and only follow those that are in line with Qur'an

I know very little of shia what they theorectically believe. However I do observe what they (some of them) practice as I have very close family friend who is a shia. What is extra ordinary in his belief is the way he rever about Karbala. So much so that he has a peice of stone or clay from that place that he always keep it on the place of sajjud during the prayer. On my enquiry, he narrated many zellions of sayings of some of his ulema to make this practice appear not only legitimate but dearer to God. Some of these sayings include that there are hundreds of thousands of angels that are daily making tawaf of the grave of haz Hussain in Karbala. Can you throw some light on such beleifs and practices among shias and what is their source of evidence for such practices. 



Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 8:47am

Since your post is addressed to Aliya - I would leave it to her to respond in detail - However, I could not control my laugh on this 'one of my friend' story. It has become such an old propaganda ploy that it has lost its value. What I am trying to say is - that if I say that one of my Wahhabi friend in Lahore used to sit outside Data Ganj Buksh's tomb and used to spit on every devotee who entered the site to pay his or her homage - which is estimated to be an average of 3,000 per day - would you blieve it - considering many of these devotees 'bow low' in front of the grave of that Saint.

As for Holy Qur'an is concerned - I have a very simple solution for you. Next time when you go for Jajj (or your friend for that matter) - keep an eye on Iranian pilgrims and you maybe shocked to see that all of them are reading the same 'Saudi publish' copies of Holy Qur'an, as the Salafis and Wahabis would be reading.

Is not amazing - One Allah, one Prophet, One Qur'an - but so many sectarians!



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Rehmat

Since your post is addressed to Aliya - I would leave it to her to respond in detail - However, I could not control my laugh on this 'one of my friend' story. It has become such an old propaganda ploy that it has lost its value. What I am trying to say is - that if I say that one of my Wahhabi friend in Lahore used to sit outside Data Ganj Buksh's tomb and used to spit on every devotee who entered the site to pay his or her homage - which is estimated to be an average of 3,000 per day - would you blieve it - considering many of these devotees 'bow low' in front of the grave of that Saint.

As for Holy Qur'an is concerned - I have a very simple solution for you. Next time when you go for Jajj (or your friend for that matter) - keep an eye on Iranian pilgrims and you maybe shocked to see that all of them are reading the same 'Saudi publish' copies of Holy Qur'an, as the Salafis and Wahabis would be reading.

Is not amazing - One Allah, one Prophet, One Qur'an - but so many sectarians!

Yes, I would believe you, simply because of my own experiences and observations in a common day to day life. This is especially true with regard to ignorance of the people (despite the fact that they may be literate in education) about their relegion. Also to take this discussion to a further step, I would not only blame them for their apathy towards their faith but also the clergy through which they gain whatever knowledge they posses. I can guess, despite all my logical arguments with my shia friend (he is a PhD in a scientific field) to realise the truth, he would continue with this practice, simply because either he is not interested in reading about his faith by himself or he is simply ignoring my logics as common sterotypes against his faith. Once I confronted him to atleast read for himself, he exclaimed with content that he has no time to do the research for himself. He seems to follow whatever he has seen his elder family members been doing. My personal observation is that this kind of attitude is not unique with any specific faith but is a common dilema in any religion or faith. Probably this is the begining of extremism on either side (either they become atheist or become fanatics).



Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 1:00pm

PhD has nothing to do with maturity or morality. You would be surprised to know that among the 12 million Jews - there'are more PhDs than among the 1.5 billion Muslims - but that doesn't corrupted Jewish religion as 'a divine message'.

The biggest curse among the Muslim Ummah is (as the Prophet (pbuh) warned us) - 'Munafiqoon' - Which are the present-day Sectarians, who would rather ally with Kufr than supporting a Muslim group, which doesn't follow their 'Madhab'. Take the example of Iraq-Iran war of 1980s - all Arab countries sided with Saddam Hussain (who has been crucified by his own western masters) - just because he was an Arab and Iranian were mostly Shias. Most of these idiots did not realize that Saddam Hussain was not even a Muslim at that time. He converted to Islam in the 1990s.



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: new_muslimah
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 1:34pm

Brother Rehmat, May Allah bless you.

We all must acknowledge the need to be united on common points.



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Allah is the Light of the Universe.



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