Print Page | Close Window

16:69

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Science & Technology
Forum Discription: It is devoted for Science & Technology
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26286
Printed Date: 22 October 2014 at 8:48pm


Topic: 16:69
Posted By: TG12345
Subject: 16:69
Date Posted: 29 August 2013 at 1:59pm
Salaam Alaikum.

Chapter 16 of the Quran, verses 68 and 69, describes the honeybee.

16:68,69

And your Lord inspired to the bee, "Take for yourself among the mountains, houses, and among the trees and [in] that which they construct.
Then eat from all the fruits and follow the ways of your Lord laid down [for you]." There emerges from their bellies a drink, varying in colors, in which there is healing for people. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who give thought.


Was the author of the Quran aware that bees do not and cannot eat from all the fruits?


For example, the Yucca is a fruit producing plant that only a certain type of moth is able to pollinate. Bees, wasps, bumblebees, other insects and animals are incapable of pollinating it. Only the Yucca moth can.

The female moth, after mating, deposits her eggs in the ovary at the base of the flower. Then she collects a ball of pollen from other flowers and places this pollen ball in a special depression in the stigma of the flower, to ensure that the flower is fertilised (image 3). This pollination system is so precise that only yucca moths can pollinate these plants. Yuccas grown in regions where the yucca moth is absent will never produce seeds unless the plants are hand-pollinated. Moreover, there is growing evidence that the many different Yucca species are pollinated by different yucca moths, specialised for the plant species.

http://archive.bio.ed.ac.uk/jdeacon/desertecology/yuccas.htm


Why would the Quran's author tell bees from all the fruit, when there are some fruit that bees cannot even get to?


Also, some plants fruit producing plants, like the California Buckeye, kill honey bees by poisoning them.

Wildlife
Do not plant buckeyes near apiaries as the
flowers are poisonous to honey bees. No wildlife eat
buckeye seeds except squirrels, such as the California
ground squirrel (Citellus beecheyi).


http://plants.usda.gov/plantguide/pdf/cs_aeca.pdf


According to the Quran, God has told the honey bee to eat of all the fruit. Yet there are some fruit that poison bees, and others that they simply cannot get to.

How could God have told the bee to eat of all the fruits, given the inaccesibility and outright poison to bees, for some of them?



Replies:
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 30 August 2013 at 7:26am
I had already given U reply but U R not satisfied as usual.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 30 August 2013 at 8:10am
Originally posted by NABA

I had already given U reply but U R not satisfied as usual.

Salaam Alaikum, NABA.

Have you actually read this post? If you did, you would have noticed that I was pointing out another fact.

In the post you responded to (or tried to), I brought up the fact that honey can kill people, despite the Quran's author stating that it contains healing.
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25890&PN=8

In this post, I brought up the fact that there are fruit that are deadly and inaccessible to bees, despite the Quran's author telling bees to "eat from all the fruit".

Same verse, different mistake.

Please take the time to read what I have actually written, before accusing me of being "not satisfied as usual". It will make you look less silly.

All praise and honour be to God- the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 31 August 2013 at 7:15am
but the point is that ur comments prove u R silly,at some time u believe God is one,then u believe in concept of trinity,then u call human beings as eternal,yet u believe in life and death,people with double meaning statements are not wise like u the verse u quoted ends with people who give thought means we have to enquire before doing anything.i believe I m not eternal because Allah says in Qur'an in ch 3 v 185-every living being will taste death.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 31 August 2013 at 9:54pm
Salaam Alaikum.
Originally posted by NABA

but the point is that ur comments prove u R silly

I am not the one making false accusations against you, it is the other way around.
Originally posted by NABA


,at some time u believe God is one,then u believe in concept of trinity,

Trinity = one God existing as three persons. That you see a contradiction between God being one and God being a Trinity shows that you misunderstand what the Trinity is.
Originally posted by NABA


then u call human beings as eternal,yet u believe in life and death,

Does not the Quran teach that we will live eternally after death... either in Paradise or Hell?
Originally posted by NABA


people with double meaning statements are not wise like u

Neither of the statements I said are contradictory. It is you who misunderstands Christian teachings.
Originally posted by NABA


 the verse u quoted ends with people who give thought means we have to enquire before doing anything.

So in other words, if God tells you that honey contains healing, instead of believing Him, you need to inquire first, right?
Originally posted by NABA


i believe I m not eternal because Allah says in Qur'an in ch 3 v 185-every living being will taste death.

Yes, we will all taste death. But after we die, we enter into new life, which will last forever. So we do live eternally.


By the way, you still have not answered my question. Why did God according to the Quran tell the bees to eat from all kinds of fruit? Was He unaware that some fruit bees cannot get to, and others kill them?

I answer all your questions. Why do you not do the same to mine?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 01 September 2013 at 1:37am
no U have not answered to the verses I have quoted from bible such as gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,U say its an addition how it can b the word of God if its an addition from human,moreover Allah says honey acts as medicine so yes this is TRUE,but U tell me y Allah says this is the sign for people who give thought,as I told U that Allah allows us to eat cabbage but I told U that a wise man will wash and then eat.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 01 September 2013 at 2:06am
moreover I want to tell U that in that verse Allah says eat of the fruits to bees,so most of them are harmless to bees but to humans,Allah says in ch 5 v 90-don't intoxicate ur body and b successful.so a wise man after reading this verse will obviously think before using honey,Allah says in ch 2 v 222-Allah loves those who R clean.so its obvious that cleanliness include clean hygeine includes purity in every sense,as I told U about cabbage example.and moreover U tell me do U extract honey by yourself???its a tedious process,and lot of precautions are taken,if honey moisture content is less than 20%then chances are it is thin,Allah says in their belly there is a drink means Allah is knocking our wisdom by saying it is for people who give thought.moreover Allah says in ch 29 v 69-if U strive in way of your lord Allah will open pathways for U.so when man applied his wisdom to extract honey Allah helped him.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 01 September 2013 at 10:55am
Originally posted by NABA

no U have not answered to the verses I have quoted from bible such as gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,U say its an addition how it can b the word of God if its an addition from human,

My answer was this: it is an addition. It is not the word of God. That is why in  most Bibles, Mark 16:9-20 is labelled as being an addition. The majority of what is in the Bible is not added, a few parts are, and these parts are very clearly marked so the reader knows they are not from God. I hope that answered your question.

Originally posted by NABA

moreover Allah says honey acts as medicine so yes this is TRUE,

It is true sometimes. Other times, it is FALSE.

Originally posted by NABA

but U tell me y Allah says this is the sign for people who give thought,as I told U that Allah allows us to eat cabbage but I told U that a wise man will wash and then eat.

I already explained the difference to you. Cabbage is washed off because what is on it can be bad for you. The cabbage itself is good.

On the contrary, honey by itself (without any contaminants) can be deadly for you. Yet according to the Quran, God just said it is a healing.

And as I have shown you, the tafsirs demonstrate that the phrase "this is a sign for people who give thought" has nothing to do with whether or not it is safe.

A question for you- if God were to tell you that something is good for you, would you believe Him, or check to make sure?


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 01 September 2013 at 11:06am
Originally posted by NABA

moreover I want to tell U that in that verse Allah says eat of the fruits to bees,so most of them are harmless to bees

Correction: He told them to eat of all the fruit. And some of them are toxic to bees. Other ones they can't even reach. Did God not know this?

Originally posted by NABA

but to humans,Allah says in ch 5 v 90-don't intoxicate ur body and b successful.so a wise man after reading this verse will obviously think before using honey,

Poisoned honey will not intoxicate you, so that verse does not apply.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah says in ch 2 v 222-Allah loves those who R clean.so its obvious that cleanliness include clean hygeine includes purity in every sense,as I told U about cabbage example.and moreover U tell me do U extract honey by yourself???its a tedious process,and lot of precautions are taken,if honey moisture content is less than 20%then chances are it is thin,

Honey extracted from bees that take pollen from Andromeda is extracted like honey from any other kind of bee. Regardless of how it is extracted, in a clean or dirty way, it will cause great harm.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah says in their belly there is a drink means Allah is knocking our wisdom by saying it is for people who give thought.

God according to the Quran said in their belly there is a drink that contains healing. Obviously, one can't take God's words in the Quran at face value. Just because He says honey contains healing, doesn't mean it really does.
Originally posted by NABA

moreover Allah says in ch 29 v 69-if U strive in way of your lord Allah will open pathways for U.so when man applied his wisdom to extract honey Allah helped him.

In other words, you seem to be saying that it is necessary to question Allah and not accept His words as being automatically true.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:19am
Allah says in ch 67 v 2-Allah created life and death to test us,so life is a test,in test we have to strive,So Allah said there is a honey in their belly we have no doubt about that,but Allah says this is the sign for those who give thought,means we have to find ways to extract honey and look with Allah's help man has advanced in field of honey extraction.i believe whatever Allah says,but Allah says in several places to strive,I believe structures are made by Thamud but u don't that's the difference between u and me,I believe in one Allah and m against trinity because that's the order of Allah.Allah is the almighty but at the same time Allah says Qur'an is the book for those who understand.similarly Allah says in ch 16 v 66-in livestock we have provided a drink between excretory system and blood-milk palatable for drinkers,U think does cow give milk automatically,we have to do hard work to get that milk.in short I want to say that we strive because we believe in Allah,this life is for striving not for fun as Allah says in ch 6 v 32-this life is nothing but amusement and play.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 03 September 2013 at 7:02pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.

Originally posted by NABA

Allah says in ch 67 v 2-Allah created life and death to test us,so life is a test,in test we have to strive,So Allah said there is a honey in their belly we have no doubt about that,

No, Allah said (allegedly) that there is a honey in their belly that provides healing. Do you believe this is always the case? I hope not.
Originally posted by NABA


but Allah says this is the sign for those who give thought,means we have to find ways to extract honey and look with Allah's help man has advanced in field of honey extraction.

Only Muhammad recommended people drink honey long before people found ways to extract honey safely. Honey that is extracted from bees that have eaten certain toxic plants will bring about harm. If a bee has eaten the Andromeda or oleander plant, the honey made by it is toxic.
Originally posted by NABA


i believe whatever Allah says,but Allah says in several places to strive,

By "strive" do you understand extracting honey using technology?

Originally posted by NABA

I believe structures are made by Thamud but u don't that's the difference between u and me,

You believe the structures were made by the Thamud because the Quran tells you. I believe they were made by the Nabataeans, because I have done research. Even Muslim archaeologists confirm that the Nabataeans, not the Thamud, built the structures at Al Hijr.

As I have demonstrated, the Quran is also wrong in its statement that when salty and freshwater bodies meet, there is a forbidden barrier between them that prevents them from transgressing. That is obviously false.

The Quran is not the word of God. God does not make mistakes.

Originally posted by NABA


I believe in one Allah and m against trinity because that's the order of Allah.

I believe in one Allah also, and I accept His trinitarian nature.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah is the almighty but at the same time Allah says Qur'an is the book for those who understand.

Those who understand what?
Originally posted by NABA


similarly Allah says in ch 16 v 66-in livestock we have provided a drink between excretory system and blood-milk palatable for drinkers,U think does cow give milk automatically,we have to do hard work to get that milk.

I did not say anywhere that cows give milk automatically, but I am glad you mentioned 16:66. As you stated, it teaches that God said:

And indeed, for you in grazing livestock is a lesson. We give you drink from what is in their bellies - between excretion and blood - pure milk, palatable to drinkers.

http://quran.com/16/66

The verse correctly states that milk comes from between excretion and blood of cows, and is pure and not polluted by them.

The verse also state that the milk is palatable to the drinkers. This is not true in all cases.

A person who has a milk allergy and who ingests milk, will in a matter of seconds start choking, twitching, shaking, and may go into what is called an anaphylaxis shock. Yet the author of the Quran says that milk is palatable for those who drink. It is for most people. It is deadly for others.

Why would God have told humanity that milk is palatable? Was He unaware of people who are allergic to it?

http://kidshealth.org/teen/food_fitness/nutrition/milk_allergy.html



Originally posted by NABA

in short I want to say that we strive because we believe in Allah,this life is for striving not for fun as Allah says in ch 6 v 32-this life is nothing but amusement and play.

I agree with you comepletely, we need to place our faith in Allah, and in in Him alone. Our lives belong not to us, but to Him. He created us, He died for us, He saved us, and when we die we will go to see Him.

Life is not for amusement and play. Life is for Him.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 04 September 2013 at 7:26am
palatable means pleasant and tasty to drink in terms of food and drink,so is this not TRUE???again U missed the point Allah says in ch 2 v 195-don't let ur hands to b the cause of ur own destruction,if a person knows he has allergy from milk he should refrain from it!!Allah says those who understand means those who R willing to apply wisdom to which Allah gave to us,Allah has lend down us rules and where we have to apply it depends on us.U should have read the appendix of Yusuf Ali clearly,I want to ask U what about the place of well and kneeling place of she camel which is still present U haven't mentioned in ur posts at all about this because U feel inside that U R wrong!!!!


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 04 September 2013 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by NABA

palatable means pleasant and tasty to drink in terms of food and drink,so is this not TRUE???

No, it is not true for all people. Many people are lactose intolerant. Others are allergic. Others simply don't like the taste of milk.

Milk is therefore not palatable for all people. By claiming milk is palatable to those who drink it, the author of the Quran made yet another mistake.
Originally posted by NABA


again U missed the point Allah says in ch 2 v 195-don't let ur hands to b the cause of ur own destruction,if a person knows he has allergy from milk he should refrain from it!!

I was waiting for you to say that. Although most victims of milk allergy are kids, some are also adults. A milk allergy can develop in an adult with no prior problems or symptoms of milk allergy.

In other words, someone who was not allergic to milk can suddenly develop this allergy.

So 2:195 would not always be applicable.

A person could get very sick and die if they believe what the Quran says about milk being palatable to the drinkers.

Milk allergy is more common in children than in adults. It is estimated that 2 to 5 % of infants develop milk allergy. Up to 60% of infants allergic to cow’s milk will “outgrow” the allergy by the age of 4 and 80% by the age of 6. However it still leaves a significant percentage of milk allergy sufferers into adult hood. Moreover, it is possible for adults to develop a milk allergy with no childhood history of allergies.

http://www.foodreactions.org/allergy/milk.html
 

Originally posted by NABA


Allah says those who understand means those who R willing to apply wisdom to which Allah gave to us,Allah has lend down us rules and where we have to apply it depends on us.

A person with no previous history of milk allergy who develops it one day has no way of knowing this.

Originally posted by NABA


U should have read the appendix of Yusuf Ali clearly,I want to ask U what about the place of well and kneeling place of she camel which is still present U haven't mentioned in ur posts at all about this because U feel inside that U R wrong!!!!

Sorry for not mentioning the kneeling place of the camel. He merely writes that someone told Mr. C M Doughty that he was standing in the place which was the kneeling place of the she-camel. He provided absolutely no evidence to back that assertion up, only that someone told him.

Interestingly, he did state that there was actually research done that showed that the architecture at Madain Saleh was of the same kind as of what was made by the Nabataeans at Petra. He wrote that at Madain Saleh there are several inscriptions that were made by the Thamud. This has been verified by archaeologists.

So we know that the buildings at Madain Saleh were built by the Nabataeans. There is actual evidence to demonstrate that.

We don't know about the history of the rock that the she-camel allegedly kneeled on. We only have beliefs... beliefs that are based on a book that

a) doesn't say anything about the kneeling place still existing,

and

b) made a mistake by attributing the Nabataean tombs at Madain Saleh to houses built by the Thamud

"Mr C M Doughty travelled in North western Arabia and Najd in 1880's,in his book Arabia deserta daughty describes his first view of Madina Saleh,approaching from north west-"At length in dim morning twilight,as we journeyed we come to a sandy brow and straight descending place between cliffs of sandstones.there was some shouting in forward and Aswad told me to look up and said that this was a famous place(Mabrak An Naqa),which was the kneeling place of she camel of Prophet Salih(pbuh),it is short at first steep and issues upon the plain of Al Hijra,Daughty took rubbings of some of inscriptions which were accessible to him and they were studied by great Semitic scholar Ernest Renan and published by Academic des inscriptions et belle letters.Sculpture and architecture are found to b of same kind of nabaeteans monuments at Petra,in Petra there R no dated inscriptions but at madina saleh are several,kneeling place and well of she camel plus no of local inscriptions keep alive the race memory of Thamud and Prophet Salih(pbuh).


Do you believe God makes mistakes in His words?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 05 September 2013 at 4:30am
Allah neither do wrong neither lie (ch 20 v 52), as I told u this life is a test there r some human beings who have allergies with different things, Allah says in ch 42 v 8-if Allah would have wanted he could have created everbody same.for eg Alhamdullilah i don't need telephone direcrtory, I can remember them, this is the gift from Allah that's y I can quote verses without problem Alhamdullilah. But my metabolism of body is slow, means I had to eat less exercise more, some people eat more but still they r lean but this is not case with me I had to work hard to keep nody in shape I want to tell u that Allah had given us both good things and some challenges, Alhamdullilah i have no allergies to milk, but same may have so this is the test for them from Allah.there is another app verse from this in ch 2 v 216-u may like a thing which is not good for u u may hate a thing which is good for u but Allah only knows what is good for u!!!!!!


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 06 September 2013 at 4:31am
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.

Originally posted by NABA

Allah neither do wrong neither lie (ch 20 v 52),

I agree. This is why I say that He did not write the Quran.
Originally posted by NABA


 as I told u this life is a test there r some human beings who have allergies with different things,

So does part of Allah's test include telling people to eat things that will harm them??? How can you insult Allah like that?
Originally posted by NABA


 Allah says in ch 42 v 8-if Allah would have wanted he could have created everbody same.

This is a reference to Islam, not eating habits. The verse means that if He wanted to, He could have made everyone a Muslim. Read the tafsirs.
Originally posted by NABA


for eg Alhamdullilah i don't need telephone direcrtory, I can remember them, this is the gift from Allah that's y I can quote verses without problem Alhamdullilah. But my metabolism of body is slow, means I had to eat less exercise more, some people eat more but still they r lean but this is not case with me I had to work hard to keep nody in shape I want to tell u that Allah had given us both good things and some challenges, Alhamdullilah i have no allergies to milk, but same may have so this is the test for them from Allah.

So are you saying that "a test from Allah" for those with milk allergies would be to drink milk, and go down in convulsions?
Originally posted by NABA


there is another app verse from this in ch 2 v 216-u may like a thing which is not good for u u may hate a thing which is good for u but Allah only knows what is good for u!!!!!!

Are you saying that throwing up/choking/going into anaphylaxis/wheezing are things that are good for people?

Also, a person who throws up after eating milk (or chokes on it for that matter) does not find it "palatable", even if s/he wanted to. Their body rejects it.

Therefore, the statement in the Quran that milk is palatable for those who drink it, is false in some cases.

The author of the Quran made another mistake. This proves He cannot be Allah.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 06 September 2013 at 7:31am
it depends on us how we take the meaning,as I said we are not eternal,eternal means free from diseases,I ask U if Allah had not told cow contains milk does man would know that,Allah might had mentioned this fact in books before Qur'an,U read Qur'an U apply logic y wud Allah mentions about cow milk only y not goat,dogs,cat,because Allah knows cow milk is best for humans,in fact milk is a complete food,Allah is way above us in fact u insult Allah by saying that he die,trinity which is non sense.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 06 September 2013 at 9:07am
I was quoting Yusuf Ali translation of ch 42 v 8-if Allah would have wanted he could have made all people single people,Allah says in various places in Qur'an travel around different places in world and look what had happened to those who opposed God,We know there R several diseases related to eye during infancy,so according to u this verse is also wrong for some people,because when the infants grow up how can they see since they don't have eyes,now in bible God says about earth,sky,sun etc in genesis,so i can also question bible y didn't God mentions in bible about those who can't see,so as i said that we all R undergoing tests and test can b of any form,whether in terms of handicap,mental disorder,Allah wants us to test our faith in him,talk about today,with advanced medical facilities one can easily detect whether the infant is prone to allergy to certain substances or not.u tell me Allah says there is a drink in between blood circulation and excretion,is it TRUE or not,moreover when we read Qur'an in continuation u will c in the end of the next verse again Allah ends with this is the sign for people who reason.now u will question my faith y i m applying logic on creations of Allah,look Allah has given us wisdom and we apply our wisdom because we have faith in Allah,because Allah has given us intelligence  to b grateful to him,mentioned in ch 16 v 78. ur doubt is cleared,Allah says that he had bestowed gifts of nature more freely on some of us in ch 16 v 71,so by this verse concept of allergy comes in it,it means that Allah wants to c whether we after recieving gifts show our gratitude towards him or not,simultaneously those who cannot enjoy or refrain from it show patience or not.AllahuAkbar!!!!!!!


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 06 September 2013 at 8:35pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.
Originally posted by NABA

it depends on us how we take the meaning,as I said we are not eternal,eternal means free from diseases,

Eternal means we live forever.
Originally posted by NABA


I ask U if Allah had not told cow contains milk does man would know that,

I am pretty sure people knew that cows contain milk before the Quran was written.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah might had mentioned this fact in books before Qur'an,

Everyone, even the pagans, knew that cows contain milk.
Originally posted by NABA


U read Qur'an U apply logic y wud Allah mentions about cow milk only y not goat,dogs,cat,because Allah knows cow milk is best for humans,in fact milk is a complete food,

Cow milk is not best, or even good, for humans who have allergies to milk or are lactose intolerant. Did God not know that?
Originally posted by NABA


Allah is way above us in fact u insult Allah by saying that he die,trinity which is non sense.

How is it "nonsense" to say that God dies for us, and that He exists as a Trinity?

What is more nonsensical, saying He is a Trinity and that He heroically and selflessly suffered for us, or saying that He wrote a book that contains mistakes?

Also, do you believe that Muhammad's teachings came from God?


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 06 September 2013 at 8:59pm

Salaam Alaikum, NABA.

Originally posted by NABA

I was quoting Yusuf Ali translation of ch 42 v 8-if Allah would have wanted he could have made all people single people,

No, the verse states that if He wanted to, He could have made all people Muslims. That is what the tafsirs say. This verse has nothing to do with lactose intolerance or tolerance, and you know that.
Originally posted by NABA


Allah says in various places in Qur'an travel around different places in world and look what had happened to those who opposed God,

And therein lies the error. The visible signs of the Thamud allegedly include the buildings at Al Hijr, yet we know they were built by the Nabataeans.
Originally posted by NABA


We know there R several diseases related to eye during infancy,so according to u this verse is also wrong for some people,because when the infants grow up how can they see since they don't have eyes,

It is obvious that in that verse, "see" is not a reference to visual seeing. A blind person can have someone who sees tell them... the only problem is that there are no signs of the Ad people (they were allegedly buried in sand), we only have the Thamud- but what we have are inscriptions in rock and the buildings that the Quran claims were left by them were in fact built by someone else.
Originally posted by NABA


now in bible God says about earth,sky,sun etc in genesis,so i can also question bible y didn't God mentions in bible about those who can't see,so

Please provide the relevant verse, and I will gladly discuss them with you.

Originally posted by NABA


as i said that we all R undergoing tests and test can b of any form,whether in terms of handicap,mental disorder,Allah wants us to test our faith in him,

How would God being proven wrong be a test of our faith? If God says that milk is palatable for those who drink it, and it clearly isn’t for some of the drinkers, this would mean He has been proven wrong. How is that a proof of faith? That is only a proof that the Quran is wrong, and an insult to God, since it records Him as saying something that is false.

Originally posted by NABA

talk about today,with advanced medical facilities one can easily detect whether the infant is prone to allergy to certain substances or not.

Some people develop allergies as adults, with no previous hint of them being allergic. And an allergic infant would be proof that the verse that states that milk is palatable for the drinkers is simply not true.

Originally posted by NABA

u tell me Allah says there is a drink in between blood circulation and excretion,is it TRUE or not,

Yes, this is true. But it is not what we are discussing. We are discussing the Quran’s claim that milk is palatable to the drinkers… that is sometimes TRUE and sometimes FALSE.

Originally posted by NABA

moreover when we read Qur'an in continuation u will c in the end of the next verse again Allah ends with this is the sign for people who reason.

Where does 16:66 state “this is the sign for people who reason”? Such a statement would be even worse, because a person who reasons would clearly see that milk is not always palatable for the drinlers.

Originally posted by NABA

now u will question my faith y i m applying logic on creations of Allah,look Allah has given us wisdom and we apply our wisdom because we have faith in Allah,because Allah has given us intelligence  to b grateful to him,mentioned in ch 16 v 78.

True, our intelligence should point us to Allah and His goodness. It should also point us to the realization that He could not have written the Quran, which contains mistakes.

Originally posted by NABA

ur doubt is cleared,Allah says that he had bestowed gifts of nature more freely on some of us in ch 16 v 71,so by this verse concept of allergy comes in it,it means that Allah wants to c whether we after recieving gifts show our gratitude towards him or not,simultaneously those who cannot enjoy or refrain from it show patience or not.AllahuAkbar!!!!!!!

A person with a milk allergy who receives milk may or may not be grateful to Allah (and he should, we should be grateful to God always), but he will definitely not find it palatable… so 16:66 still remains wrong.



Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 07 September 2013 at 7:14am
so what's ur response to ch 16 v 71???U haven't respond to any allegation by me on bible,I still want ans of gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,U say its an addition,if its an addition hence bible is not the word of God,Allah says that he claims the responsibility to preserve Qur'an in ch 15 v 9,well and kneeling place of she camel is the solid evidence that thamud created structures.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 07 September 2013 at 4:04pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.
Originally posted by NABA

so what's ur response to ch 16 v 71???U haven't respond to any allegation by me on bible,I still want ans of gospel of mark ch 16 v 17-18,U say its an addition,if its an addition hence bible is not the word of God,

Mark 16:9-20 (which includes Mark 16:17-18) is not the word of God, and neither are the few other verses that were not in the originals.

The rest of the Bible is the word of Allah. The Bibles themselves contain footnotes that state Mark 16:9-20 is not found in the originals, and therefore is not God's word.

Originally posted by NABA

Allah says that he claims the responsibility to preserve Qur'an in ch 15 v 9,

The Quran is well preserved, yes. So are many other books. This does not make them the word of Allah.

The fact that the Quran is preserved does not change the fact that it contains mistakes, and that therefore it is not the word of Allah.
Originally posted by NABA


well and kneeling place of she camel is the solid evidence that thamud created structures.

How are they evidence that the Thamud created the structures? How do you know they didn't appear before or after the structures were created? Can you show me any dating of them? I showed you dating of the structures... which points to the fact that the Nabataeans made them.

It's interesting that you mention the wells... they were built by the Nabataeans, too.


The Nabataeans greatest accomplishment was probably their system of water management. They developed a system to collect rainwater using water channels, pipes, and underground cisterns. Added to this, they developed very strong, http://nabataea.net/cement.html - waterproof cement , some of which is still in existence to this day.

They also developed sophisticated http://nabataea.net/waterw.html - ceramic pipelines and reservoirs using gravity feeds (siphons or inverted siphons), that served the developing urban centers. Outside of the cities, dams closed off wadis to collect water during the rainy season, while stone circles or terraces retarded runoff from slopes and trapped valuable topsoil so that their irrigation lines could feed crops.

The Nabataeans were experts at collecting water and storing it in underground cisterns. All along their caravan routes, secret water collection systems collected water and stored it for later use. The ancient historian http://nabataea.net/ahistor.html - Diodorus noted: "For in the waterless region, as it is called, they have dug wells at convenient intervals and have kept the knowledge of them from people of all other nations, and so they retreat in a body into this region out of danger. For since they themselves know about the places of hidden water and open them up, they have for their use drinking water in abundance." (II.48.2)

Diodorus also noted in another place: "They take refuge in the desert using this as a fortress; for it lacks water and cannot be crossed by others, but to them alone, since they have prepared subterranean reservoirs lined with stucco, it furnishes safety. As the earth in some places is clayey and in others is of soft stone, they make great excavations in it, the mouths of which they make very small, but by constantly increasing the width as they dig deeper, they finally make them of such size that each side has a length of about 100 feet. After filling these reservoirs with rain water, they close the openings, making them even with the rest of the ground, and they leave signs that are known to themselves but are unrecognizable to others. They water their flocks every other day, so that, if they flee, or wander through waterless places, they may not need a continuous supply of water." (XIX.94.6-9)

The Nabataeans perfected the art of creating a perfect cube cistern, with corners that formed perfect right angles. They sometimes added perfectly made stone support pillars with accurately spaced, combed, oblique stone dressing. Onto this prepared surface, they plastered cement composed of water-resistant plaster of unmatched quality. Archeologists feel that this must have taken them hundreds of years to develop and perfect.

http://nabataea.net/water.html


Originally, the Nabataeans were a group of Arab tribes whose economy was based on pastoralism. Little by little, however, they settled, developed several cities and became traders. They also became experts in the art of collecting rain and spring water, which was then stored for use during the dry season, in large, deep cisterns.

http://www.islamicurbanheritage.org.sa/english/MadanSaleh.aspx


The wells that Muhammad came across and told his men not to drink from, were also built by the Nabataeans.

So the Quran and hadith is wrong in its statement that the buildings in Al Hijr were carved by the Thamud... because the Nabataeans built them. The hadith is wrong in its statement that the wells at Al Hijr were those of the Thamud... because the Nabataeans built them, too.

What remains is the rock that the she-camel allegedly came out of. If you can show me any scientific or archaeological evidence dating it to the time of the Thamud, please show me. Otherwise, there is no case.

Allah loves you. He loves you so much that He sent down Himself as Jesus Christ to suffer on the cross for you. I know you are a good person who wants to serve Allah, but the Quran does not tell you the truth about Him. The Bible does. Please consider coming to Him, and being saved.



Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 08 September 2013 at 7:45am
U can see what Wikipedia says about thamud moreover ur bible revolts against trinity concept,Jesus(pbuh) says in mark ch 12 v 29-oh Israel our God our lord is one.Don't do associate partners with Allah brother,this sin is unforgivable,Allah says in Qur'an in ch 4 v 48,v 116-Allah if wants can forgive any sin but not the sin of shirk.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 08 September 2013 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by NABA

U can see what Wikipedia says about thamud

Wikipedia is not a scholarly source. But not even the Wikipedia article you cited states that they carved buildings out of rock at Al Hijr.
Originally posted by NABA


moreover ur bible revolts against trinity concept,Jesus(pbuh) says in mark ch 12 v 29-oh Israel our God our lord is one.

Trinity = One God who exists as three persons. Mark 12:29 does not contradict the Trinity.
Originally posted by NABA


Don't do associate partners with Allah brother,this sin is unforgivable,Allah says in Qur'an in ch 4 v 48,v 116-Allah if wants can forgive any sin but not the sin of shirk.

I don't associate partners with Allah. I believe Allah is one, and that He exists as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

My friend, you insult Allah by claiming He is the author of the Quran and by denying what He did for you on the cross.


Do you believe that Muhammad's words that are recorded in sahih hadiths came from him, or from God?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 09 September 2013 at 7:13am
yes I believe that sayings of hadith are of God to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh),I give U an example we believe that Dajjal will come before judgment day,Prophet Muhammad predicted that events will come before dajjal,one of the signs will be the competition in terms of tall buildings and we R witnessing it,plus there R several examples.the reason that some hadiths R moderated because hadeeth are recorded 300 yrs after death of Prophet.Allah is eternal he cannot die moreover why don't U respect Jesus(pbuh),he himself is saying our lord God is one.brother U R going nowhere by believing in trinity,there is nothing like Allah(ch 112 v 4),we believe Allah is merciful,just,way way above all human qualities,don't do sin by giving human attributes to Allah such as death.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 09 September 2013 at 3:40pm
Salaam Alaikum, NABA.
Originally posted by NABA

yes I believe that sayings of hadith are of God to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh),I give U an example we believe that Dajjal will come before judgment day,Prophet Muhammad predicted that events will come before dajjal,one of the signs will be the competition in terms of tall buildings and we R witnessing it,plus there R several examples.the reason that some hadiths R moderated because hadeeth are recorded 300 yrs after death of Prophet.

What does it mean that some hadiths are "moderated"?

Which hadiths are actual sayings from God to Muhammad, and which ones are fake?

Are the hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim true sayings of Muhammad?
Originally posted by NABA


Allah is eternal he cannot die

Are you telling God what He can and can not do?
Originally posted by NABA


 moreover why don't U respect Jesus(pbuh),

I do. I love and try to follow and worship Him. He is my Saviour and Lord and God.
Originally posted by NABA


he himself is saying our lord God is one.

Yes, and He said that He and the Father are one. He said that those who have seen Him have seen the Father.

Did Muhammad ever say he and Allah are one? Or that those who have seen him have seen Allah?
Originally posted by NABA


brother U R going nowhere by believing in trinity,there is nothing like Allah(ch 112 v 4),we believe Allah is merciful,just,way way above all human qualities,don't do sin by giving human attributes to Allah such as death.

Sitting on a throne is also a human attribute, yet you believe Allah sits on a throne. So why do you get upset when I said Allah died and rose again? Do you think think is impossible for Him?




Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 10 September 2013 at 7:34am
Qur'an is the book that is everything,means whether U say science,poetry etc.sitting on Throne doesn't mean he sits on throne but if Allah says as it is in ch 7 v 54,Allah says in ch 50 v 16-Allah is more closer to us than our jugular vein but since Allah says we have to believe it,that's y Allah says in ch 112 v 4-there is nothing like him,we Muslims with our limited wisdom we can't predict what Allah can do,Allah does what he intends to do(ch 85 v 16).when U attribute dying to Allah as a Muslim its my duty to correct U because it contraindicates with surah Al Ikhlaas ch 112 v 1-4 which defines concept of God which is unacceptable and every time U attribute it I will always respond to U.this ch acc to Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) is equal to one third of Qur'an.Allah says obey Allah and Obey Prophet in several places in Qur'an that's y we believe in hadeeth,but prophet denied compyling of his sayings during revealing of Qur'an because there were chances of mixing of quranic message with hadeeths,that's y after many years after his death his sayings were compiled but not all R authentic because they were compiled by human beings that too several years after death of prophet.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 11 September 2013 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by NABA

Qur'an is the book that is everything,means whether U say science,poetry etc.

Are you saying that everything regarding science is in the Quran?
Originally posted by NABA


sitting on Throne doesn't mean he sits on throne but if Allah says as it is in ch 7 v 54,Allah says in ch 50 v 16-Allah is more closer to us than our jugular vein but since Allah says we have to believe it,that's y Allah says in ch 112 v 4-there is nothing like him,

How do you know Allah does not sit on a throne actually? If you believe that Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein and it is possible for Him to be everywhere, why would it not be possible for Him to die on a cross and rise back to like?
Originally posted by NABA


we Muslims with our limited wisdom we can't predict what Allah can do,Allah does what he intends to do(ch 85 v 16).

Agreed.
Originally posted by NABA

when U attribute dying to Allah as a Muslim its my duty to correct U because it contraindicates with surah Al Ikhlaas ch 112 v 1-4 which defines concept of God which is unacceptable and every time U attribute it I will always respond to U.

You can say what you want, but your text is a book that contains historical and scientific mistakes, and thus its author is not God.
Originally posted by NABA


this ch acc to Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) is equal to one third of Qur'an.Allah says obey Allah and Obey Prophet in several places in Qur'an that's y we believe in hadeeth,but prophet denied compyling of his sayings during revealing of Qur'an because there were chances of mixing of quranic message with hadeeths,that's y after many years after his death his sayings were compiled but not all R authentic because they were compiled by human beings that too several years after death of prophet.

So how do you know which hadiths are authentic and which ones aren't? Are not the ones in Bukhari and Muslim authentic?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 12 September 2013 at 7:10am
Regarding hadeeths I  listen to maulanas after Asir salaah because they are more knowledgeable than us.when U attribute death to God U R directly contraindicating That Allah is eternal(ch 112 v 2)which is wrong!!!!!!!As I said what Allah says in Qur'an we believe,regarding science Allah describes the developmental stage of human being in Surah Al Muminoon ch 23 v 12-14,and few years back embryologists discovered this fact.Quran is way above science because it contains words of Allah.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 12 September 2013 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by NABA

Regarding hadeeths I  listen to maulanas after Asir salaah because they are more knowledgeable than us.

You didn't answer my question. Are the hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim authentic words of Muhammad?
Originally posted by NABA


when U attribute death to God U R directly contraindicating That Allah is eternal(ch 112 v 2)which is wrong!!!!!!!

Allah is both eternal and He died. You are suggesting there are things He cannot do. Allah can do anything. Just because something is impossible for us to understand, doesn't mean He is incapable of it.
Originally posted by NABA


As I said what Allah says in Qur'an we believe,regarding science Allah describes the developmental stage of human being in Surah Al Muminoon ch 23 v 12-14,and few years back embryologists discovered this fact.Quran is way above science because it contains words of Allah.

Interesting. I have to look more into this, so for now I will not say any more.

Why did the Quran's author mistakenly state there is a barrier between salty and sweet water that keeps them from transgressing, when clearly there is no such thing?

Why did he tell people to obey Muhammad as well as God, when many of Muhammad's statements and teachings were clearly wrong, and can be easily proven so?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 13 September 2013 at 7:22am
Most of them are words of God,I only prove Qur'an is the word of Allah,and it is.well I given U proof regarding salty water and when we follow Qur'an simultaneously we follow our Prophet.for eg Allah says in ch 17 v 23-24-Allah says obey your parents and our Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) said one of the griveous sin is not obeying your parents.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 16 September 2013 at 7:39pm
Salaam Alaikum.
Originally posted by NABA

Most of them are words of God,

Most of them? Which ones are and which ones aren't?
Originally posted by NABA


I only prove Qur'an is the word of Allah,

But the Quran tells you to obey Muhammad as well as God. Are you saying that some of the things he said were not from God? If not, who were they from?
Originally posted by NABA


and it is.

No, it isn't.
Originally posted by NABA


well I given U proof regarding salty water

And I have shown your "proof" to be wrong.
Originally posted by NABA


 and when we follow Qur'an simultaneously we follow our Prophet.for eg Allah says in ch 17 v 23-24-Allah says obey your parents and our Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh) said one of the griveous sin is not obeying your parents.

So if by following the Quran you follow Muhammad, why the need for hadiths? You said that most of what is in Muslim and Bukhari is from God. So does that mean that there are some things that Muhammad taught that are not from God?

How do you know what is from God and what is not?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 17 September 2013 at 7:30am
there R some so called peers who claim themselves to b close to god and by name of prophet they say numerous FALSE things,that's y i always hear hadeeths from maulana(those who recite Qur'an by heart),Some of Muslim scholars have recieved degrees in which they closely study the life of prophet,Allah says always approach the one who has more knowledge in ch 16 v 43.For eg prophet Muhammad(pbuh) says that if after every prescribed prayer if we praise Allah then our sins will b forgiven,there R several teachings that i can quote.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 17 September 2013 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by NABA

there R some so called peers who claim themselves to b close to god and by name of prophet they say numerous FALSE things,that's y i always hear hadeeths from maulana(those who recite Qur'an by heart),Some of Muslim scholars have recieved degrees in which they closely study the life of prophet,Allah says always approach the one who has more knowledge in ch 16 v 43.For eg prophet Muhammad(pbuh) says that if after every prescribed prayer if we praise Allah then our sins will b forgiven,there R several teachings that i can quote.

Salaam Alaikum. Thank you for the answer. Which hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim are the words of Muhammad, and which ones aren't?





Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 18 September 2013 at 6:48am
as I said I prefer not to comment on this because I used to hear to imams who throughout their life are involved in Islamic activities,I m a medico so after the Asir Salaah I used to hear hadeeth from maulanas,but I daily read Qur'an which is the commandment of Allah and prophet.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 18 September 2013 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by NABA

as I said I prefer not to comment on this because I used to hear to imams who throughout their life are involved in Islamic activities,I m a medico so after the Asir Salaah I used to hear hadeeth from maulanas,but I daily read Qur'an which is the commandment of Allah and prophet.

So in other words, are you saying you don't know what Muhammad said and what he didn't say? The Quran clearly tells you to obey him, as well as God. How can you obey Muhammad if you don't even know what he said or didn't say?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 19 September 2013 at 11:20pm
There are many muslims who say that they don't believe in hadeeth, by saying this they themselves are in a problem, because the way we offer salaah was the prophet used to, u didn't take my point there are many individuals who quote by themselves in the name of prophet so the role of ilamas or educated scholars here take place, because hadeeths were written 300 yrs after death of prophet, Allah says always approach the one who has more knowledge in ch 16 v 43, that's y I always listen to those who have learnt a lot about Quran and hadeeth.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 20 September 2013 at 4:12am
Originally posted by NABA

There are many muslims who say that they don't believe in hadeeth, by saying this they themselves are in a problem, because the way we offer salaah was the prophet used to, u didn't take my point there are many individuals who quote by themselves in the name of prophet so the role of ilamas or educated scholars here take place, because hadeeths were written 300 yrs after death of prophet, Allah says always approach the one who has more knowledge in ch 16 v 43, that's y I always listen to those who have learnt a lot about Quran and hadeeth.

Salaam Alaikum.

So what do the ulamas say about the hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim? I heard Muslims say that they are the authentic words of Muhammad, unlike other collections. What do you say to that?

PS Just so you know, I replied to you on the thread "Error in Quran and Hadiths about Thamud" 2 days ago, but the moderators have not posted it yet.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 21 September 2013 at 7:08am
there R lot of hadeeths in bukhari and Muslims,ulama says most of them are authentic so we believe it.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 22 September 2013 at 4:57am
Originally posted by NABA

there R lot of hadeeths in bukhari and Muslims,ulama says most of them are authentic so we believe it.

So if I were to quote a hadith from Bukhari or Muslim, you would accept it as the words of Muhammad, or not?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 22 September 2013 at 7:20am
no,not from you I only listen or accept those hadeeths who are narrated or spoken from respected maulanas that too either during Bayaan in Masjid,or tv directly because they have very high taqwaa and God consciousness whatever they say they will say keeping Qur'an in Mind.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 24 September 2013 at 5:12am
Originally posted by NABA

no,not from you I only listen or accept those hadeeths who are narrated or spoken from respected maulanas that too either during Bayaan in Masjid,or tv directly because they have very high taqwaa and God consciousness whatever they say they will say keeping Qur'an in Mind.

So if I were to quote a hadith from Bukhari or Muslim, you wouldn't know whether or not it was authentic?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 24 September 2013 at 8:26am
My answer is same I listen hadeeth only from a scholar, a person who give more time to deen because i m a medical student Alhamdullillah and I find less time to study hadeeth,for eg Maulana Abdul Kareem Parekh on tv when he was giving Islamic discussion said that an average muslim like me if give even 10 to 15 minutes to Quran daily then it is sufficient he quoted a hadeeth that prophet said a good deed of small amount but done regularly is close to Allah and I always try to increase my knowledgerregarding deen by listening to such great scholars in that way I follow commandments of Allah and prophet. Allah says always consult to those who have knowledge in ch 16 v 43, prophet Muhammad S.A.W (PBUH) said Allah open pathways for paradise for those who want to increase knowledge of deen.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 28 September 2013 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by NABA

My answer is same I listen hadeeth only from a scholar, a person who give more time to deen because i m a medical student Alhamdullillah and I find less time to study hadeeth,for eg Maulana Abdul Kareem Parekh on tv when he was giving Islamic discussion said that an average muslim like me if give even 10 to 15 minutes to Quran daily then it is sufficient he quoted a hadeeth that prophet said a good deed of small amount but done regularly is close to Allah and I always try to increase my knowledgerregarding deen by listening to such great scholars in that way I follow commandments of Allah and prophet. Allah says always consult to those who have knowledge in ch 16 v 43, prophet Muhammad S.A.W (PBUH) said Allah open pathways for paradise for those who want to increase knowledge of deen.

OK. Can you ask the scholars if Bukhari Book#60 Hadith#457 and Muslim Hadith $7055, #7056 and #7057 are the authentic words of Muhammad? I would be very interested in learning if this is the case. Thanks.


Posted By: TSontani
Date Posted: 17 October 2013 at 7:20pm
Dear TG12345,

Please just googling the images of bee & fruits, then you can see the bee also eats (sucks) sweet liquid of the fruits. That's why we can get honey with various fruits taste.

Wassalaam.


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 21 October 2013 at 5:00am
Originally posted by TSontani

Dear TG12345,

Please just googling the images of bee & fruits, then you can see the bee also eats (sucks) sweet liquid of the fruits. That's why we can get honey with various fruits taste.

Wassalaam.

Wa alaikum salaam. I do not disagree that bees eat fruits, I know this is true.

I disagree with the statement that God told them to eat of all the fruits. I disagree with this statement, because there are some fruits that bees cannot get access to, and others that poison them.



Print Page | Close Window