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Life in paradise

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25666
Printed Date: 23 October 2014 at 12:56pm


Topic: Life in paradise
Posted By: 1914
Subject: Life in paradise
Date Posted: 06 July 2013 at 11:21am

I have a few questions if I may Tongue, did the earlier prophets of “the book”  like Enoch (Idrīs), Noah (Nūḥ), Abraham (Ibrāhīm), Job (Ayyūb), Moses (Mūsā) etc . . . believe in a resurrection of life:

(1) To a physical earthly paradise or a resurrection of life to a spiritual heaven?

(2) Who of the earlier prophets if any, believed in a resurrection to an earthly paradise?

Please provide references if possible (chapter/verse)

(3) Who of the earlier prophets if any, believed in a resurrection to spiritual heaven?   

Please provide references if possible. (chapter/verse)

Thanks

 




Replies:
Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 25 July 2013 at 6:11pm
Any one care to share a thought, hope or belief?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 27 July 2013 at 2:15am
All prophets believed what Allah says, the main aim of all prophets of islam was to bring people to straight path to b successful in hereafter.definitely the resurrection will b of new world, for eg in Surah Al Mursalat ch 77 v 10-on last day mountains will b crushed to dust, Surah Al insaan ch 76 v 17-the dwellers of heaven will drink zanjabil, in Surah Al Ibrahim ch 14 v 16-dwellers of hell will b given boiling water to drink in front of them, Surah An Nisa ch 4 v 56-Allah says that we will give new layer of skin each time when their skin burns so that they can feel pain.


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 31 July 2013 at 5:18am
Wow! I'm really shocked! I know people of faith on this forum talk about paradise and or heaven but no one can explain where or how this belief came about and who of the prophets believed it by showing a scriptural reference but people supposedly believe that they are going there.

Which of the earlier prophets taught this teaching of paradise and or resurrection? Or is it man made without a foundation?


 


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 01 August 2013 at 7:50am
it is not at all the man made foundation,our creator Allah had send these words to our last and final messenger Prophet Muhammad S.A.W(pbuh),Allah had described about hell so that we can develop fear and do good deeds,for eg Allah forbids backbiting in ch 49 v 11-12 and in ch 104 v 4-5 Allah says there is blazing fire for these sinners so if a God fearing individual read this he will refrain himself from this logically speaking if we avoid backbiting there will b less quarell and more peace which is the ultimate goal of Islam.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 03 August 2013 at 5:57am

Originally posted by 1914

I have a few questions if I may , did the earlier prophets of “the book”  like Enoch (Idris), Noah (Nuh?), Abraham (Ibrahim), Job (Ayyub), Moses (Musa) etc . . . believe in a resurrection of life...

By "the book", do you mean the Quran or the Bible or something else?



-------------
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 August 2013 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by 1914

Wow! I'm really shocked! I know people of faith on this forum talk about paradise and or heaven but no one can explain where or how this belief came about and who of the prophets believed it by showing a scriptural reference but people supposedly believe that they are going there.

Which of the earlier prophets taught this teaching of paradise and or resurrection? Or is it man made without a foundation? 


If I were to answer off the top of my head without deeper pondering, or further research, I would have to say that it was Yahshua who taught us of the Father's kingdom and of the resurrection.

Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;


33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.


36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.


12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.


These are all the words of Yahshua.



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 10 September 2013 at 10:51am
1914 for an answer to this we need to establish

1 what religion you belong to?

2 Who are you addressing?Muslims or the Christians?

3 What you are asking for will take time in explaining so you have to be specific.


Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 20 November 2013 at 5:24am
Hi 1914,

Sorry I missed this earlier,
I am sure that the OT believers had an assurance of heaven. This is written of Enoch in Genesis 5:
21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. (Not much info, but it indicates that God took Enoch to heaven.)

And David, after his young son died in 2 Samuel 12:
22 And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’
23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”
Also God said to Daniel in Daniel 12:
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

The word Paradise is used 3 times in the NT and of course, the first one is when Jesus spoke to the thief on the cross, where He said in Luke 23:
43 “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

While most people associate Paradise with heaven, --- this reveals that both Jesus and the thief died that day, so the Paradise they went to, was not a physical place, but a place, or interim ‘state of being’ where the spirits of the righteous go at the time of death.
Jesus, of course, did not remain in that state, as He returned to appear in a spiritual body after 3 days.

That it is a ‘state of being,’ is verified in the next usage of the word in 2 Corinthians 12:
1 I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord:
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
4 How he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Many commentators believe that Paul was talking about a personal experience he had. --- One minister I knew suggested that this happened when Paul was stoned in Acts 14:
19 Then Jews from Antioch and Iconium came there; and having persuaded the multitudes, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing him to be dead.
--- So if this was Paul’s experience, he would not know whether he was actually dead when his spirit went to the state of Paradise, or whether he was still alive, and simply had this vision of being caught up to the third heaven.
--- (This is another mystery but it implies that the ‘third heaven’ was Paradise.

The third mention of Paradise is in Revelation 2:
7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’
--- Here it identifies Paradise with heaven, so it poses another mystery.
Some commentators have said that Paradise was a place of holding the spirits of the righteous dead, until the time that Jesus died on the cross, --- and it said in Matthew 27:
51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split,
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

--- These were recognizable believers who were raised and appeared in Jerusalem after His resurrection. --- It is thought by these commentators that after His ascension, --- these beings also ascended to heaven and the new Paradise of God was established in heaven.
--- Before Jesus died, the souls of men were retained by Satan who had the power of death. --- It mentions ‘The spirits that were in prison from the time of Noah’ in 1 Peter 3:18-20.
--- Then the Paradise that retained the souls of the righteous from after the time of Noah till the death of Jesus. --- Then finally the Paradise of God was relocated in the Garden in heaven.

If we see it as a place where the spirits of the righteous would go after their death in the OT, --- then after Jesus’ death and ascension, the saints were given spiritual bodies, in which they would ascend to heaven.
I believe we will walk upright in heaven, but if believers die today and go to this Paradise, it is still not right into heaven as there are still the judgment and awards for the righteous.
--- It is all a wonderful mystery, and almost too complicated to explain since we don’t have full knowledge.
--- In the Quran, all the references are to the ‘afterlife,’ --- or presumably heaven with the Garden and the river running under it.

Placid


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 01 December 2013 at 2:41pm

Originally posted by Placid

And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. (Not much info, but it indicates that God took Enoch to heaven.

Since much is not mentioned we don’t know where God took him. But, we know it doesn’t say heaven. I’m trying not to go into the New Testament or Quran because that is where all three religions differ which is why I pose the question from the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms.

Originally posted by iec786

1914 for an answer to this we need to establish

1 what religion you belong to?

2 Who are you addressing?Muslims or the Christians?

3 What you are asking for will take time in explaining so you have to be specific.

Abraham is considered the father of Judaism, Christianity  and Islam. So, it really doesn’t matter what I believe or what you believe for that matter. What did they believe? All three religions believe in the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms (Writings) right? And that is what I’m addressing to all who are interested. Without complicating things, did they believe in a resurrection to an earthly paradise or heavenly paradise?

What view do you have iec786 and why? Please provide reference from the Law, the Prophets or the Psalms.

For some strange reason for this to be a religious forum no one wants to touch this subject. Which is odd, real odd because all three major religions believe in Abraham and a paradise and are fighting tooth and nail to achieve it. Is it because no one can back up what their belief is by using a point of reference so a spin is put on it, I don't know.



Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 02 December 2013 at 12:36pm
Hi Placid,

I am sure that the OT believers had an assurance of heaven.

No person has that right.

King James Bible
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 03 December 2013 at 8:48am
Hi 1914,
Quote: I’m trying not to go into the New Testament or Quran because that is where all three religions differ which is why I pose the question from the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms.

Response, I had given the assurance that David had, --- that he would go to his son, so he was referring to the after-life, though without much explanation.

The Prophet Malachi speaks of the records that are kept in Malachi 3:
16 Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another,
And the Lord listened and heard them;
So a book of remembrance was written before Him
For those who fear the Lord
And who meditate on His name.
17 “They shall be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts,
“On the day that I make them My jewels.
And I will spare them
As a man spares his own son who serves him.”
18 Then you shall again discern
Between the righteous and the wicked,
Between one who serves God
And one who does not serve Him.

--- (You can glean what you can from that)



Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 04 December 2013 at 10:21pm
1914,
To have a fruitful discussion it is imperative to which religion you belong to,unless you are talking from the point of an atheist or agnostic.The reason is when you talk of books like psalms or the prophets then we need to talk of how authentic these books are.Now you will see from which point i am coming from,if you want to discuss then i need to know where you coming from.What religion you come from and which book or books do you take your references from????.If we cannot establish that then all we would do is scratch the surface and that takes too much time and generalization.I can see you are a serious person, Now identify yourself.


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 06 December 2013 at 9:07pm
I appreciate your comments Placid and ice. I see God certainly remembers the good deeds of men and those who fear him. But, don't know if that's paradise in heaven or on earth. I personally cannot find anything pertaining to a heavenly life in the OT, maybe I'm over looking something.

Ice, like you and Placid I believe in the Law, Prophets and Psalms. I think that is where we all started. But, my question is not about my beliefs but the beliefs of the prophets of old (OT) and there belief in paradise/heaven/afterlife, did they have such a belief and if so what prophet?

  




Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 11 December 2013 at 9:09am
Hi,

I know that there are not many specifics in the Scriptures, and the best Person to consider is Enoch who had such faith in God and walked so close to Him that it says in Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked with God, and was not, for God took him.
It is suggested that he was 'translated' and escaped physical death, but there is no explanation.

However, I have a copy of "The Book of Enoch" which is translated by R H Charles. It is a book of over 150 pages and it has secrets of the universe and the Luminaries, and 'Astronomical' secrets. There are 'vision' and 'Journeys of Enoch through the earth.'

There is a section on Paradise and heaven, but it may be mentioned in other places as I just thumbed through it.
--- (In looking through it and seeing the notations I made at the first reading, I feel I should read it again.)

It has fragments of "The Book of Noah" and a lot of 'end time' prophecy. It was written in Hebrew and is mentioned in the Zondervan Bible Dictionary as being known between 163 and 63 BC. --- This was during the Maccabean Period when Israel had 'independence' for about 100 years.

A fascinating Book but perhaps a little hard to find.
--- Or it may be found in a Library.



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 December 2013 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi,
A fascinating Book but perhaps a little hard to find.
--- Or it may be found in a Library.

I have one Big%20smile  ...but I never did get very far in reading it.
Now I think maybe I should try again.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 18 December 2013 at 10:28am
Originally posted by 1914

I appreciate your comments Placid and ice. I see God certainly remembers the good deeds of men and those who fear him. But, don't know if that's paradise in heaven or on earth. I personally cannot find anything pertaining to a heavenly life in the OT, maybe I'm over looking something.Ice, like you and Placid I believe in the Law, Prophets and Psalms. I think that is where we all started. But, my question is not about my beliefs but the beliefs of the prophets of old (OT) and there belief in paradise/heaven/afterlife, did they have such a belief and if so what prophet?  




Hi,

So you are a Christian.


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 22 December 2013 at 6:49pm
Maybe, maybe not. But it's not about me although I believe in the Law, Prophets and Psalms.

Originally posted by 1914

...my question is not about my beliefs but the beliefs of the prophets of old (OT) and there belief in paradise/heaven/afterlife, did they have such a belief and if so what prophet?


Hmmm, no comment on the prophets beliefs I guess?


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 26 December 2013 at 2:23pm
You know it is interesting that I have not run into anything either in the Old Testament books describing heaven. There is a lot about heaven and hell in book of Prophet Enoch, a lot of details but all seems to be here on earth!
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 10 January 2014 at 1:10pm
Since there is no definitive answer, where did Muhammad get the concept of Jannah or After life? It seems like there are major differences between the two conceptions of paradise in the Gospel and in the Quran.

From what I studied in the Holy Scriptures their is nothing regarding places of sensual pleasure, marriage and an endless supply of wine which the hadith teaches.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 12 January 2014 at 4:19am
Originally posted by 1914

Since there is no definitive answer, where did Muhammad get the concept of Jannah or After life? It seems like there are major differences between the two conceptions of paradise in the Gospel and in the Quran. From what I studied in the Holy Scriptures their is nothing regarding places of sensual pleasure, marriage and an endless supply of wine which the hadith teaches.Correct me if I'm wrong.




Hi I am correcting the wrong that you are talking about.You see you say that you have not read it anywhere in the scripture.Jesus told you ( 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.John 16-12.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


Now you can do what Jesus said and read the Quran and you will find it.

Peace
Ismail


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 15 January 2014 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by iec786=

Hi I am correcting the wrong that you are talking about...Now you can do what Jesus said and read the Quran and you will find it.


That's your answer, read the Quran? No chapter/sura no verse and no references that the prophets believed it in the past?

Originally posted by iec786

15 All things that the Father hath are mine:..


Are you saying that Islam now agree that Jesus has a father as said in verse 15, "All things that the Father hath are mine?" Explain that please.

Originally posted by iec786

Now you can do what Jesus said


Do you believe what Jesus said?


Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 05 February 2014 at 6:31pm

Here is iec's quote -

Originally posted by iec786

] 15 All things that the Father hath are mine:..

Originally posted by 1914

Are you saying that Islam now agree that Jesus has a father as said in verse 15, "All things that the Father hath are mine?" Explain that please.

. . . and iec786 is unable to answer the question or explain the scripture he tried to use. It again only shows the picking and choosing of certain scriptures of the NT that Muslims know are correct. I guess he at least agrees by his quote that the “father” has a son. Are you able to convince your fellow brothers?



Posted By: 1914
Date Posted: 14 February 2014 at 8:33am
Very few believe because of their minds being blinded by the wicked one. I for one agree 100%

May you have peace.



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