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The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Discription: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24795
Printed Date: 19 May 2013 at 11:43am


Topic: The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin
Posted By: fiqhenglish
Subject: The Ruling of the One who Stops Performin
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:24am

1. The one who stops performing http://www.fiqhenglish.com/elm/Salat.aspx - As-Ṣalāh due to denying its obligation:
If he is ignorant about the issue, then he is informed. Subsequently if he persists on rejecting its
obligation, he is a disbeliever, belying Allah Almighty His Messenger (may the peace and blessings of
Allah be upon him) and the consensus of the Muslims.

2. The one who stops performing http://www.fiqhenglish.com/elm/Salat.aspx - prayer out of laziness:
Whosoever stops performing As-Ṣalāh intentionally out of laziness has disbelieved. It is
upon the ruler to order him to perform As-Ṣalāh , and advise him to repent from this for three days.
Subsequently if he repents and returns to making the http://www.fiqhenglish.com/elm/Salat.aspx - As-Ṣalāh , he is spared. If he does not return to
prayer he is killed for apostasy. This in accordance with the Prophet’s (may the peace and blessings of
Allah be upon him)statement: “The covenant which is between us and them (the disbelievers) is the
prayer; so whosoever leaves it has disbelieved.”(1) Also his saying: “Indeed between a man and shirk and
kufr is stopping of performing As-Ṣalāh


Replies:
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 8:07am
Indeed it is advisable to not only quote the source of the weak opinion above, but also which scholars of Islamic law are in agreement.  You may not be aware that scholars differ with respect to death for apostasy, and there is a wide discussion on this topic, that your two paragraphs certainly do not reflect.  Lastly, outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims".  And Allah Knows Best.

Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 9:55am
Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims".
 
Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct.  People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam.
 
For example, approximately 200 million of the world's muslims are Twelver Shiite.  Twelvers believe in praying three times a day (instead of the five times a day Sunnis pray), and add an additional clause onto the Shahada:
 
There is no god but God, Muhammad is the messenger of God, and Ali is the friend of God.  
 
A question to ponder: do either of these differences make Twelvers apostates of Islam?

Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abuayisha wrote: outside of the most basic fundamentals of Islam (prayer, zakat, charity, hajj) you will not find a "consensus of the Muslims".

 
Depending upon which sects you personally consider to be muslim, I don't think your statement is correct.  People calling themselves muslim differ greatly on the fundamentals of Islam.

 


So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects?

What do you mean by twelver shiite?

Shia join prayers, so they have reduced the number of times they pray, not the actual number of prayers.

Sects dont make apostates.

Ali (may his face be blessed) was the fourth kalif and is held in much high regard amongst sunni muslims as well.

-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 8:29am
Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects?   What do you mean by twelver shiite?

I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims.  It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs.  For example, check out the following two webpages:
 
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569 - http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida
 
And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites.  For example:
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html - http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html
 
which reads, in part:
 
(January 11, 2013): The death toll from a series of deadly bombings across Pakistan rose today to 120, police said, marking one of the deadliest days the country has seen in years... Most of the dead were Shia Muslims killed in twin bombings at a billiards hall — a frightening reminder that Sunni extremists are increasingly targeting them.
 
You need look no further than this forum to uncover Sunni muslims who are critical of Shiite beliefs.  For example: on January 18, 2013 in the thread "The Final Hurdle to Becoming a Muslim is", Abu Loren wrote:
 
With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam.

Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by Reepicheep

Nausheen wrote: So are you telling us when there is no concensus between muslims they form different sects?   What do you mean by twelver shiite? I don't have the time now to explain the difference between Sunni muslims and Shiite muslims.  It is not difficult to find Sunni scholars and websites which criticize Shiite beliefs.  For example, check out the following two webpages:
 

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569 - http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/4569

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafida

 

And, it is common for Sunni suicide bombers to target Shiites.  For example:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html - http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/11/pakistan-bombings-quetta-death-toll-rises.html

 

which reads, in part:

 

(January 11, 2013): The death toll from a series of deadly bombings across Pakistan rose today to 120, police said, marking one of the deadliest days the country has seen in years... Most of the dead were Shia Muslims killed in twin bombings at a billiards hall — a frightening reminder that Sunni extremists are increasingly targeting them.

 

You need look no further than this forum to uncover Sunni muslims who are critical of Shiite beliefs.  For example: on January 18, 2013 in the thread "The Final Hurdle to Becoming a Muslim is", Abu Loren wrote:

 


With regard to Shi'a 'twlevers' 'thirteeners' or whatever they are all deviant Muslims. They've innovated so much in Islam that it is almost unrecognisable from the mainstream 'true' Islam.


Save yourself the trouble of explaining to me the difference between shia and sunni.

For now know that a 'no concensus between muslims' does not essentially make sects.
Between sunnis there are 4 fiqhs and sometimes they do not have a concesus opinion on a particular matter - still they are all sunnis.

'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term. On Islamicity we discourage such expressions towards anybody.

peace.

-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14am
Nausheen wrote: 'twelver shiite' is a derogatory term.
 
I'm curious to know where you got the idea that "twelver" is a derogatory term.  I've used the term many times on the http://www.shiachat.com - www.shiachat.com forum, and I can't recall anyone being offended.  In fact, for over ten years at work I shared an office with a Twelver of Iranian ancestry, and he never indicated to me that the term Twelver is an insult.
 
Basically, the term "Twelver" refers to the fact that this sect of Islam believes that there were 12 divinely chosen leaders after Mohammad.  See, for example, the following website for more details:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver
 
If you personally know of muslims who consider it an insult to be called Twelvers, it would be interesting if you could invite them to add their posts to this thread.


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