BIBLE;JESUS NOT CRUCIFIED
Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24745
Printed Date: 23 May 2013 at 6:56am
Topic: BIBLE;JESUS NOT CRUCIFIED
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: BIBLE;JESUS NOT CRUCIFIED
Date Posted: 29 January 2013 at 10:32am
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Hebrews 5:7 English Standard Version (ESV) 7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus[a] offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. |
Replies:
Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 07 February 2013 at 2:30am
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Hi Mahdi read on - Hebrews 5.8-
Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
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Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:24am
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Originally posted by Experiential and suffering only means dying on the cross?.
Hi Mahdi read on - Hebrews 5.8- Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
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Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 10:46pm
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Partly his suffering was about his death. eg. Hebrews 2.14 ,
Hebrews 13. 12 but also in that he took upon himself all the evil and sin in the world.
Hebrews 12:2. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God is so Holy that a persons best religious efforts can never be enough to satisfy Him. The Most Holy God.
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 11:30am
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Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke Hebrews 5:7 English Standard Version (ESV) 7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus[a] offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. and he was heard because of his reverence. Dying on the cross... being crucified... was a long and torturous death. Jesus was spared in that His Spirit went free from His body after only 3 hours. "into Your hands I commend My Spirit." "It is finished." also, His legs were not broken as was the usual practice. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 1:52pm
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Originally posted by Experiential God is so Holy that a persons best religious efforts can never be enough to satisfy Him. The Most Holy God.that is simply an opinion, unless you can show me where God says that.
Partly his suffering was about his death. eg. Hebrews 2.14 , Hebrews 13. 12 but also in that he took upon himself all the evil and sin in the world.
Hebrews 12:2. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God is so Holy that a persons best religious efforts can never be enough to satisfy Him. The Most Holy God. t he took upon himself all the evil and sin in the world. nobody's got anything to worry about then. everybody's sins have been covered by Jesus. |
Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:16pm
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Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke
Originally posted by Experiential God is so Holy that a persons best religious efforts can never be enough to satisfy Him. The Most Holy God.that is simply an opinion, unless you can show me where God says that. Partly his suffering was about his death. eg. Hebrews 2.14 , Hebrews 13. 12 but also in that he took upon himself all the evil and sin in the world. Hebrews 12:2. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. God is so Holy that a persons best religious efforts can never be enough to satisfy Him. The Most Holy God. t he took upon himself all the evil and sin in the world. nobody's got anything to worry about then. everybody's sins have been covered by Jesus. Mahdi Said That is simply an opinion, unless you can show me where God says that. My Reply Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2-8,9 Mahdi Said nobody's got anything to worry about then. everybody's sins have been covered by Jesus. My Reply Yes your sins are covered by Christ Jesus The Messiah provided you ask Him into your life as your Lord. |
Posted By: Salaam_Erin
Date Posted: 19 February 2013 at 8:45am
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The operative word in the verse which Mahdi misuses is that God could save Jesus from death, which He did not do, as He let Jesus die, but He DID rescue Him from death afterwards, through the Resurrection. The suffering delineated in Hebrews 5:8 is explained throughout the Book of Hebrews as being that of death. "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed to take away the sins of many people." (Hebrews 9:27-28) It's really bizarre seeing Hebrews being used to 'prove' that Jesus did not die according to the Bible!  Also, you still have to repent fom your sins for God the Father to be prepared to count Jesus as having died in your place, or tough. |
Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 19 February 2013 at 9:57pm
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Mahdi, you sound like the rapper kids in the hall. Just get a great big bling cross on a gangsta chain. Pull your pants down half way, wear your baseball cap almost backwards. That's what they told me. Jesus saves man, what more do you need to know? ------------- I'm a Gentile. Numb. 6:24-26 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:12pm
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. double post ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:14pm
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Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke
Hebrews 5:7 English Standard Version (ESV) 7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus[a] offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Salam, yes, according to the words written in the present day Bible you quoted it appears that Jesus did not die on the cross, rather God saved him from such a humiliating death. As a beloved servant of God, he was rescued as we know from the Quran, God's final word. These words are not unclear: "that was able to save him from death" Hasan ------------- 39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?" |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 February 2013 at 12:24pm
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17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. 19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (the words of Jesus)------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 20 February 2013 at 5:40pm
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Originally posted by Caringheart
<span id="en-KJV-26499">17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26500">18 No
<span id="en-KJV-26501">19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26501"></span> <span id="en-KJV-26493">11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26495">13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26496">14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26497">15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.</span> <span id="en-KJV-26497">(the words of Jesus)</span>Caringheart, i do not know the chapter from which you quoted, but the verses below clearly show that Jesus begged to be spared from death, 3times at that, while in a state of distress/anxiety to the point of death.[ Yet some will still claim he is God] Mark 14:32-42 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” 35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him. 41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!” |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 February 2013 at 11:08pm
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Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke Originally posted by Caringheart
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No
man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (the words of Jesus)Caringheart, i do not know the chapter from which you quoted, but the verses below clearly show that Jesus begged to be spared from death, 3times at that, while in a state of distress/anxiety to the point of death.[ Yet some will still claim he is God] Mark 14:32-42 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” 35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him. 41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!” Greetings Mahdi, You can just go on interpreting the way you want to, and never open your eyes to the Truth if that's what you want. This whole thread has already addressed that part of the issue that you wish to keep returning to as though it had not been addressed. Salaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 21 February 2013 at 1:33am
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Originally posted by Caringheart do not get mad when i quote verses from the Bible to refute your claims.
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke Greetings Mahdi,You can just go on interpreting the way you want to, and never open your eyes to the Truth if that's what you want.This whole thread has already addressed that part of the issue that you wish to keep returning to as though it had not been addressed.Salaam,CHOriginally posted by Caringheart
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. (the words of Jesus)Caringheart, i do not know the chapter from which you quoted, but the verses below clearly show that Jesus begged to be spared from death, 3times at that, while in a state of distress/anxiety to the point of death.[ Yet some will still claim he is God] Mark 14:32-42 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.” 35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.” 37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.” 39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him. 41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!” |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 21 February 2013 at 6:42pm
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Greetings Mahdi, I'm not mad. You just don't get it and want to sound like a parrot. Just don't be surprised on judgement day when you are sent a direction you never intended to go. salaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 23 February 2013 at 1:29pm
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Originally posted by Caringheart thanks for sentencing me to hell. anyway, when i countered your 'he gave his life willingly' point of view, i countered with Bible verses which say the opposite, so you got mad. how is that acting like a parrot? at least think about my points instead of simply getting mad. i know it is frustrating to find out what you believe may be wrong after your lifelong dedication to your faith. the truth hurts. but is it not better than blissful ignorance? consider it a blessing to find the truth now. better late than never.
Greetings Mahdi,I'm not mad. You just don't get it and want to sound like a parrot.Just don't be surprised on judgement day when you are sent a direction you never intended to go. [IMG]smileys/smiley2.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Wink" />salaam,CH |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 February 2013 at 2:03pm
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Greetings Mahdi, I'm not sentencing you to anything, just saying you may be in for a surprise. Hey, I may be in for a surprise. That is the great unknown. And again, I am not angry at all. And you still insist on parroting. I guess that is to distract others from actually reading what I wrote. Salaam to you. CH Your points have been addressed many times in this thread.  ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 26 February 2013 at 9:42am
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Originally posted by Caringheart if you have no more points to make, better to keep quiet.
Greetings Mahdi,I'm not sentencing you to anything, just saying you may be in for a surprise. Hey, I may be in for a surprise. That is the great unknown.And again, I am not angry at all.And you still insist on parroting. [IMG]smileys/smiley2.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Wink" /> I guess that is to distract others from actually reading what I wrote.Salaam to you.CHYour points have been addressed many times in this thread. [IMG]http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" /> |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 11:04am
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"I'm not sentencing you to anything, just saying you may be in for a
surprise. Hey, I may be in for a surprise. That is the great unknown." That was my point.  ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever |