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CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24717
Printed Date: 01 September 2014 at 1:07am


Topic: CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: CHRISTIANS:FORGIVE EVERYBODY THEIR SINS
Date Posted: 27 January 2013 at 1:14am
john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”



Replies:
Posted By: bunter
Date Posted: 28 January 2013 at 3:31am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”


The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.


Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 28 January 2013 at 10:08am
I wouldn't say that means all Christians. Some may think so...
 
Jesus breathed on His disciples and they received the Holy Spirit, who, in turn must have the same authority as Jesus did to forgive sins.
Jesus, being the judge on judgement day would be able to forgive sins at any time. I'm sure the Holy Spirit knew the criteria as well.
 
Let's not talk trinity, but we're obviously not talking Gabriel either.
 
Forgiveness is a big thing for Christians. The disciples asked Jesus, how many times should we forgive sin, 7 times? Jesus answer was 70 X 7, in other words...don't keep track.
 
Not being a disciple at the time, I believe my responsibilities take me tis far.
If you have sinned against me, I can forgive you and ask for forgiveness for you, but I cannot put repentance in your heart, and don't have the knowledge to know if it happened or not. I can pray The Lord will send you an angel bearing concience. I can pray any good thing for you. With all that good intension and good will, I cannot see into your heart to see a change, therefore I cannot say your sins are forgiven, only that I've done my best.
 
There is nothing, nothing biblical/spiritually good about praying for a curse.
 
 
 
 
 
 


-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26


Posted By: nirvana
Date Posted: 29 January 2013 at 10:22am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”


The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.


you can make it mean whatever you want.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:39am
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”


The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.


the plain and obvious thing here is that you deliberately chose to ignore what the verse says and assigned your own unrelated belief to the verse. that you said 'The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins' shows you understand the meaning. what you said after shows you are either in denial, delusional or both.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Webber



I wouldn't say that means all Christians. Some may think so...
 
Jesus breathed on His disciples and they received the Holy Spirit, who, in turn must have the same authority as Jesus did to forgive sins.
Jesus, being the judge on judgement day would be able to forgive sins at any time. I'm sure the Holy Spirit knew the criteria as well.
 
Let's not talk trinity, but we're obviously not talking Gabriel either.
 
Forgiveness is a big thing for Christians. The disciples asked Jesus, how many times should we forgive sin, 7 times? Jesus answer was 70 X 7, in other words...don't keep track.
 
Not being a disciple at the time, I believe my responsibilities take me tis far.
If you have sinned against me, I can forgive you and ask for forgiveness for you, but I cannot put repentance in your heart, and don't have the knowledge to know if it happened or not. I can pray The Lord will send you an angel bearing concience. I can pray any good thing for you. With all that good intension and good will, I cannot see into your heart to see a change, therefore I cannot say your sins are forgiven, only that I've done my best.
 
There is nothing, nothing biblical/spiritually good about praying for a curse.
 
 
 
 
 
 


why not take Jesus for his word instead of relying on your own personal opinion , conjecture and derived beliefs?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 5:19pm
Is there a question here?

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 9:38pm
why not take Jesus for his word instead of relying on your own personal opinion , conjecture and derived beliefs?
Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?
 
You know how some people always end their sentences with a higher pitch like asking a question? Goofy, I know, but ...
 
Actually I think this is the man that knows everything and once we finish wallowing our conjecture he'll set us all back on the straight path.
 
Can't wait, :)


-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 12:06am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?

i am asking christians to forgive everybody their sins so we can all go to heaven, since they received the Holy spirit and have power to forgive sins


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 9:07am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?

i am asking christians to forgive everybody their sins so we can all go to heaven, since they received the Holy spirit and have power to forgive sins


Ah, well, greetings Mahdi,

This scripture was specifically Jesus speaking to His 12 Apostles.  It was to them that he gave the power to forgive sins.
I wondered why you would be asking 'Christians' to forgive sins.
There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins.  This was only spoken by Jesus to His Apostles.
We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do.
"...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." - the prayer Jesus taught His disciples to say.

Salaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 January 2013 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by Webber


why not take Jesus for his word instead of relying on your own personal opinion , conjecture and derived beliefs?
Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?


 
You know how some people always end their sentences with a higher pitch like asking a question? Goofy, I know, but ...
 
Actually I think this is the man that knows everything and once we finish wallowing our conjecture he'll set us all back on the straight path.
 
Can't wait, :)

FINALLY, somebody who gets me.


Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 01 February 2013 at 6:39pm
Gotcha, now how long must we wait?

-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 01 February 2013 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

Is there a question here?

i am asking christians to forgive everybody their sins so we can all go to heaven, since they received the Holy spirit and have power to forgive sins
Ah, well, greetings Mahdi,This scripture was specifically Jesus speaking to His 12 Apostles.  It was to them that he gave the power to forgive sins.I wondered why you would be asking 'Christians' to forgive sins.There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins.  This was only spoken by Jesus to His Apostles.We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." - the prayer Jesus taught His disciples to say.Salaam,Caringheart
so, christians have not received the holy spirit?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 February 2013 at 10:42am
Greetings Mahdi,

"There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins."

We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."... forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."

You do not think one needs the power of God's Holy Spirit to find it in ones self to forgive those who have done ill?  I do.

Salaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:47am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Mahdi,"There is no scripture(that I am aware of) that says that all those who
receive the Holy Spirit will have the authority to forgive sins."We do however, all have the power to forgive those who trespass against
our own selves, which is what Jesus encourages us to do."... forgive
us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."You do not think one needs the power of God's Holy Spirit to find it in ones self to forgive those who have done ill?  I do.Salaam,Caringheart
what you think is irrelevant. i am not trying to be rude. but let us deal with whart the Bible says. catholics use the verses i quoted to validate the sacrament of confession. so maybe you should look that up.


Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 7:03am
Lol, Sorry Caringheart. I'm sure everything I say is irrelevent as well. We are not here to explain our beliefs but to defend the Catholics.
 
I'm not looking it up. What Catholics do is irrelevent to me. Try a little Sunni hadith on Mahdi the seeker and encourage him to explain it until it makes sense.
 
 


-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 February 2013 at 3:19pm
Greetings Mahdi,

No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning.  Now I understand.  Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest.

Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles.  Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness.

This is what was taught by
James, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle...
so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.  (James)
and,
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (John)
So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive. 

I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this?
 
The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another.  This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul.  It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it.  In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God.

Hope this helps.

Salaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 4:30am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,No I don't consider you to be rude, not by your simply questioning.  Now I understand.  Here we are once again talking about religious practice and of a particular church, namely the Catholic church with its practice of confession to a priest.Confession was an important thing taught by the early apostles.  Confession is a first step to repentance, and it is in repentance that we receive God's forgiveness.This is what was taught byJames, the half-brother of Jesus, and John, the beloved Apostle... so two people who were very close to Jesus and what He taught.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.  (James)
and,
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  (John)
So while it may appear so to outsiders, it is not man that is forgiving the sins, it is the sinner making the confession, seeking to repent, and God's grace to forgive.  I think this is not much different than what muslims believe... that God forgives their sins when they sincerely ask and repent... Am I correct in this?  The teaching of Jesus you will see takes it a step further... that in order for the repentance to be genuine we must be willing to confess sins one to another.  This is a much harder thing to do and much more cleansing of the soul.  It is the purging of the evil that is allowed to live within when we do not acknowledge it.  In not acknowledging it to another it is easy to deceive ourselves and deny the sin and fool ourselves into believing we live for God.Hope this helps.Salaam,Caringheart




in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Webber

Lol, Sorry Caringheart. I'm sure everything I say is irrelevent as well. We are not here to explain our beliefs but to defend the Catholics.
 
I'm not looking it up. What Catholics do is irrelevent to me. Try a little Sunni hadith on Mahdi the seeker and encourage him to explain it until it makes sense.
 


Hi Webber,

It's funny, now that your comment has appeared on the forum I realize something.
I thought Mahdi was asking a question...
what did I think was irrelevant...
and so I answered him.

Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 February 2013 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke


in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.

Greetings Mahdi,

If you forgive someone who has trespassed against you, have you not just forgiven them their sin?



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: bunter
Date Posted: 07 February 2013 at 5:33am
The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said “that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead” (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead” (1 Peter 4:5). 

Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). 

Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1)

In summary, for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain forgiveness.


Posted By: Empiricist
Date Posted: 08 February 2013 at 8:29pm
Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart.  I can forgive this.  That does not mean God does.  The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE  NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said).   If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians.  Do you think us all *****s?  You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims.  You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with????  And you actually believe this hogwash?   Just another Pharisee, hypocrite.  God knows your  heart.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 5:52am
Originally posted by Empiricist

Mahdi the hypocrite, God knows your heart.  I can forgive this.  That does not mean God does.  The disciples were given the power to forgive sins IN THE  NAME OF JESUS (not said but not needed to be said).   If it was so simple to refute there would be no Christians.  Do you think us all *****s?  You are practicing legalism as the Pharisees, as do all Muslims.  You think if you pray at the proper times, and follow all the rules, and maybe kill a few Christians, that you go to heaven and are given virgins to have sex with????  And you actually believe this hogwash?   Just another Pharisee, hypocrite.  God knows your  heart.
calm down brother.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:06am
Originally posted by bunter

The Bible teaches clearly that all men, both living and dead, saved and unsaved, must give an account to Christ. The Apostle Peter, in his great sermon in the house of Cornelius, said “that it is He which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead” (Acts 10:42). Later, in his First Epistle, Peter wrote that Christians “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick (the living) and the dead” (1 Peter 4:5). 

Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24). To this the Apostle Paul adds: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). 

Some scurrilous people have argued this is a licence to go on sinning but that is a total lie. How can anyone who is given such a salvation abuse God by not thereafter striving for a holy life. Indeed we read "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." (Hebrews 12:1)

In summary, for those who have absorbed Jesus's message, Christians confess their sins because they are forgiven not in order to obtain forgiveness.
funny how the next few verses say the opposite of what you believe about john 5:24. you said Believers never need fear a condemnatory judgment for sin. For every Christian this judgment is already past. Jesus reassures us by His own word: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to (John 5:24).
the next few verses actually say you have to do good deeds to gain life.

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
Please try to read carefully and read the whole passage/context for better understanding.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 10 February 2013 at 6:07am
Originally posted by Caringheart



Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

in this case, the catholics seem to be following the Bible more closely since their belief is based on the Bible on this point. since the basis of power to forgive sins comes from the Holy Spirit and all christians have it, then they should all be able to forgive sins, according to the Bible.
Greetings Mahdi,If you forgive someone who has trespassed against you, have you not just forgiven them their sin?
that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 February 2013 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.

Greetings Mahdi,

 How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?

Salaam,
Caringheart



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 10:46am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.
Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?Salaam,Caringheart
so,for disciples to be able to forgive those who wronged them, they had to have the 'Holy Spirit' breathed into them? you do not need the Holy Spirit breathed into you to forgive those who wrong you, that is how i know that is not the forgiveness being referred to in those Bible verses quoted.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

john 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”


The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins but they do have the authority to say that one puts their trust in the atoning work of Jesus then sins are forgiven.


the plain and obvious thing here is that you deliberately chose to ignore what the verse says and assigned your own unrelated belief to the verse. that you said 'The obvious and plain meaning here is not that Christians have the power to forgive sins' shows you understand the meaning. what you said after shows you are either in denial, delusional or both.


But when I read that quote, yes it says what it says: "If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven". I know it is incorrect to say, only God can forgive sins. We can forgive those who do wrong against us, but to forgive someone's sins like this quote suggests is not and cannot be true.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 February 2013 at 1:07pm
This quote from Matthew 6:15 makes sense and is right, if you forgive others, God will forgive you your mistakes.
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. But the above quotes are saying something completely different.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 February 2013 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.
Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?Salaam,Caringheart
so,for disciples to be able to forgive those who wronged them, they had to have the 'Holy Spirit' breathed into them? you do not need the Holy Spirit breathed into you to forgive those who wrong you, that is how i know that is not the forgiveness being referred to in those Bible verses quoted.


Greetings Mahdi,

Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.

Salaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 16 February 2013 at 2:43am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.
Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?Salaam,Caringheart
so,for disciples to be able to forgive those who wronged them, they had to have the 'Holy Spirit' breathed into them? you do not need the Holy Spirit breathed into you to forgive those who wrong you, that is how i know that is not the forgiveness being referred to in those Bible verses quoted.
Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart
so, before Jesus came, nobody could forgive anybody anything. Caringheart, please put some more thought in your replies.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 February 2013 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

so, before Jesus came, nobody could forgive anybody anything. Caringheart, please put some more thought in your replies.

Greetings Mahdi,
Did nobody have the grace of God before Jesus came?
Salaam,
Caringheart



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 17 February 2013 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

that is not the type of forgiveness i am talking about.
Greetings Mahdi, How do you know this was not the type of forgiveness Jesus was trying to lead us to?Salaam,Caringheart
so,for disciples to be able to forgive those who wronged them, they had to have the 'Holy Spirit' breathed into them? you do not need the Holy Spirit breathed into you to forgive those who wrong you, that is how i know that is not the forgiveness being referred to in those Bible verses quoted.
Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart
Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me. It is not within my purely human nature to do so. I need the grace of God. this is simply ridiculous.


Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 18 February 2013 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Mahdi,Without the power of the Holy Spirit within me, I promise you, I do not have it in me to forgive gross wrongs committed against me.  It is not within my purely human nature to do so.  I need the grace of God.Salaam,Caringheart

Dear Caringheart,

The power of the holy spirit in us (Ruh) is pure. The evil one is the Nafs (if uncontrolled). God is Most Merciful, All-Loving. He had given each and everyone of us these characters within us. It is up to us to make full use of it. If we exercise this noble characters, we will get His blessings. We have a choice whether to forgive someone or not. If we still harbor anger and hatred, we are choosing the wrong path - the path of evil. If we choose to pardon the other person, we are showing gratitude to the Almighty for His Mercy.

Salam

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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.



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