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ancient philosophy and religous origin

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24586
Printed Date: 22 November 2014 at 1:42pm


Topic: ancient philosophy and religous origin
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: ancient philosophy and religous origin
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:09pm
A very interesting teaching if you can take the time to watch.  I think it contains valuable insights for all to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I




Replies:
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 February 2014 at 1:16pm

The Vedas (Sanskrit véda वेद, "knowledge") are a large body of texts originating in ancient India. Composed in Vedic Sanskrit, the texts constitute the oldest layer of  Sanskrit literature and the oldest scriptures of Hinduism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-2 - The Vedas are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apaurusheyatva - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-3 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-5 - They are supposed to have been directly revealed, and thus are called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Aruti - śruti ("what is heard"), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-6 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-7 - distinguishing them from other religious texts, which are called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%E1%B9%9Bti - smṛti ("what is remembered").

The Vedas are among the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_literature - oldest sacred texts . The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE, and the "circum-Vedic" texts, as well as the redaction of the Samhitas, date to c. 1000-500 BCE, resulting in a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period - Vedic period , spanning the mid 2nd to mid 1st millennium BCE, or the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age - Late Bronze Age and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_India - Iron Age .

Transmission of texts in the Vedic period was by oral tradition alone, preserved with precision with the help of elaborate mnemonic techniques.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

Hindus believe that the texts(the Vedas) were received by scholars direct from God and passed on to the next generations by word of mouth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/texts/texts.shtml



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 23 February 2014 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



A very interesting teaching if you can take the time to watch.  I think it contains valuable insights for all to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I - [COLOR="#0000ff - [COLOR="#0000ff" size="1 - <span lang=" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I</span - [/COLOR - <span lang="">

</span>




Hi Caringheart,

I have something for you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAlt-hmzrgA


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 4:50pm
This, I found very interesting.



The ka'aba of Zoroaster

I am involved in an interesting study of Darius, the king of Persia... gentle ruler... one of the first not to slaughter when he conquered.  Seems people have been evolving, from contact with one another, for a very long time.
I wonder when the ka'aba in Mecca was really first built.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 5:33pm
The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

This, I found very interesting.



The ka'aba of Zoroaster

I am involved in an interesting study of Darius, the king of Persia... gentle ruler... one of the first not to slaughter when he conquered.  Seems people have been evolving, from contact with one another, for a very long time.
I wonder when the ka'aba in Mecca was really first built.


Perhaps if you had actually studied this matter more closely, you would have found out that the name "Kaaba of Zoroaster" is from the 14th-century.  It was not the name of the structure when it was first built or for centuries after.  According to the Encyclopedia Iranica, it was most likely an Achaemenid royal tomb, and there is no evidence that it was ever a shrine or a place of pilgrimage.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kaba-ye-zardost - http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kaba-ye-zardost




-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.

the ka'aba of Zoroaster....

Imoti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-24 - contends that there were numerous such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this was the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts of the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-25 -




-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 3:52pm
of further interest:

 "The Ka'aba of Mecca was one of several Ka'abas across Arabia each one dedicated to a different god and each having its own coloured stone , the one in Mecca was dedicated to the god Hubal a phoentical distortion of the Canaanite god Ba'al(it started out as Haba'al meaning "The lord" which later on gave birth to Allah which have a similar meaning). Now on the subject of who built it, it's note worthy to point out to the Islamic 3 "Satan's stelles" that Muslims gather around each year to throw stones at in a symbolic way of stoning the Devil .

 Which obviously are obelisks of an Ancient Egyptian design, so I'm inclined to thinking that ancient Egyptians had a hand in its inception , another story worthy of note imo is the story of Abdullah ibn Jada'an a Meccan from around the Time of Muhammad, who was at the beginning banished from the city for being a vagabond and a troublemaker, is reported to have a found a hidden royal burial chamber of the first kings of Mecca full of gold objects making him the richest man in Mecca which granted him the right of return to Mecca (and also it's reported in Islamic tradition that when he opened the tomb he found a giant golden serpent ) so yeah I think Egyptians had a very strong hand in the foundation of Mecca not to mention that even the Islamic story of it's foundation includes Egyptian figures like Hagar which was an Egyptian Servant of Abraham and Ishmail's mother.

 The Bedouins (who raised Mohammed) had Djins - square stone boxes where they believed spirits rested. The Kaaba can be seen loosely as fitting in with this tradition, although the Kaaba could be walked into. There are still some Djins in Petra. If you google 'Djin', you'll see some images. The Kaaba was a place where different, often warring Bedouin tribes would come and, in respite from war, honour their gods. This helped foster trade, and Mecca developed as a commercial as well as spiritual hub."


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Caringheart

The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.

the ka'aba of Zoroaster....

Imoti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-24 - contends that there were numerous such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this was the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts of the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-25 -




LOL Great..."Caringheart" tries to keep her train-wreck going by referring to Wikipedia.  Is it any surprise that she never provides references for the nonsense she copies from the internet? 

The fact that there were other stones in pre-Islamic Arabia does not come as a surprise.  What else would one expect in a pagan land?   

It is a well-known fact that the Kaaba in Mecca was an ancient site that was revered by all Arabians.  This is what Von Grunebaum stated:

"Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabia foundation created round a sanctuary..."


Moreover, Edward Gibbon wrote:

"The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad." [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html ]

Hence, it is clear that the Kaaba was an important and ancient sanctuary in Arabia, far older than any other such sites.


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:39pm
Greetings islamispeace,

I would have to say that wikipedia is a lot less biased source than islamic-awareness.org  Smile
However, I am not disputing with you.
Did you pay attention to the title of the thread?

Shouldn't you be at prayers?  Wink

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

of further interest:

 "The Ka'aba of Mecca was one of several Ka'abas across Arabia each one dedicated to a different god and each having its own coloured stone , the one in Mecca was dedicated to the god Hubal a phoentical distortion of the Canaanite god Ba'al(it started out as Haba'al meaning "The lord" which later on gave birth to Allah which have a similar meaning). Now on the subject of who built it, it's note worthy to point out to the Islamic 3 "Satan's stelles" that Muslims gather around each year to throw stones at in a symbolic way of stoning the Devil .

 Which obviously are obelisks of an Ancient Egyptian design, so I'm inclined to thinking that ancient Egyptians had a hand in its inception , another story worthy of note imo is the story of Abdullah ibn Jada'an a Meccan from around the Time of Muhammad, who was at the beginning banished from the city for being a vagabond and a troublemaker, is reported to have a found a hidden royal burial chamber of the first kings of Mecca full of gold objects making him the richest man in Mecca which granted him the right of return to Mecca (and also it's reported in Islamic tradition that when he opened the tomb he found a giant golden serpent ) so yeah I think Egyptians had a very strong hand in the foundation of Mecca not to mention that even the Islamic story of it's foundation includes Egyptian figures like Hagar which was an Egyptian Servant of Abraham and Ishmail's mother.

 The Bedouins (who raised Mohammed) had Djins - square stone boxes where they believed spirits rested. The Kaaba can be seen loosely as fitting in with this tradition, although the Kaaba could be walked into. There are still some Djins in Petra. If you google 'Djin', you'll see some images. The Kaaba was a place where different, often warring Bedouin tribes would come and, in respite from war, honour their gods. This helped foster trade, and Mecca developed as a commercial as well as spiritual hub."


LOL Great..."Caringheart" tries to keep train-wreck going by copying some random web forum [ http://historum.com/ancient-history/44797-so-who-built-kaaba-2.html - http://historum.com/ancient-history/44797-so-who-built-kaaba-2.html ].  How objective!

The fact is that the Kaaba was not dedicated to Hubal.  According to Von Grunebaum (whom we met previously LOL):

"It seems quite a defensible suggestion that even before Muhammad the Ka'ba was first and foremost the holy place of Allah, and not that of the Hubal..."


As for the ridiculous claim that Hubal was the same as Baal, scholars say otherwise:

"The Qur'an condemns Baʿal worship. Moreover, it is also clear that in both the Nabataean and Arabic scripts the difference between Hubal and Baʿal (with an ʿayn) always existed, and that they were considered two distinct deities." [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hubal.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hubal.html ]

These are the facts that any rational person not blinded by a priori assumptions and bias should be able to ascertain.  Unfortunately, it seems that some nitwits never learn! LOL


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings islamispeace,

I would have to say that wikipedia is a lot less biased source than islamic-awareness.org  Smile
However, I am not disputing with you.
Did you pay attention to the title of the thread?

Shouldn't you be at prayers?  Wink


LOL Riiight...Wikipedia, where articles are written by anonymous buffoons, is "less biased" than than a website maintained by an actual scholar who is affiliated with the University of Cambridge among others [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/faq.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/faq.html ]

Oh and I just finished prayers.  Shouldn't you go back to the loony bin?  Isn't it your bedtime? WinkWacko


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 31 August 2014 at 8:26pm
I mentioned the following on another thread, but since it is relevant here, I am mentioning it here as well.

We routinely see Christian fanatics trying to attack the origins of the title "Allah" for God, claiming that Allah was a pagan god.  Unfortunately for these people, the fact is that Jews and Christians had no trouble referring to God as Allah, so the polemical attacks are simply pointless and fall flat.

What is even more ironic is that had these people taken the time to investigate the origins of the name of God in the Bible, Yahweh, they would be shocked as to its origins.  According to Professor Mark S. Smith:

"...Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel.  Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion" ("The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", pp. 32-33)  

He also adds that, originally, "the god of Israel" was not "Yahweh" but "El". 


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 October 2014 at 9:45pm
Another very interesting discussion, well worth listening to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppT8JK1loSg


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 11:16pm
Zoroastrianism

progressive mentality \
destructive mentality  / two opposing forces under one God

illuminating Wisdom - God - Ahura Mazda, "wise Lord", the uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed
(faith with a transcendent divinity, widely believed to have influenced the theology of Isma'ilism)

the "chaotic" is represented by Angra Mainyu (also referred to as "Ahriman"), the "Destructive Principle"
(here I take note of a similarity, the word angry, bears similarity to Angra... and anger is truly a destructive force)

the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation
(this is a concept very much like the Christian, Holy Spirit)
Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world.

Ahura Mazda's creation— widely agreed as asha, truth and order
is the antithesis of chaos, which is evident as druj, falsehood and disorder

The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict


Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail over the evil Angra Mainyu or Ahriman, at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end. In the final renovation, all of creation—even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness"—will be reunited in Ahura Mazda, returning to life in the undead form. At the end of time, a savior-figure (a Saoshyant) will bring about a final renovation of the world (frashokereti), in which the dead will be revived.



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 07 November 2014 at 2:05am
Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 November 2014 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by The Saint

Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?

Greetings The Saint,

No I am not a Parsi.  I just find the crossovers among all the ancient religions fascinating and important. Smile

asalaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 09 November 2014 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by The Saint

Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?
Greetings The Saint,No I am not a Parsi.  I just find the crossovers among all the ancient religions fascinating and important. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />asalaam,Caringheart


In that case, you should be very careful of what you post. You must always double-check your facts.



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