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ancient philosophy and religous origin

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Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24586
Printed Date: 27 March 2015 at 2:09pm


Topic: ancient philosophy and religous origin
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: ancient philosophy and religous origin
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 3:09pm
A very interesting teaching if you can take the time to watch.  I think it contains valuable insights for all to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I - - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I




Replies:
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 February 2014 at 1:16pm

The Vedas (Sanskrit véda वेद, "knowledge") are a large body of texts originating in ancient India. Composed in Vedic Sanskrit, the texts constitute the oldest layer of  Sanskrit literature and the oldest scriptures of Hinduism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-1 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-2 - The Vedas are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apaurusheyatva - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-3 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-4 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-5 - They are supposed to have been directly revealed, and thus are called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Aruti - śruti ("what is heard"), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-6 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#cite_note-7 - distinguishing them from other religious texts, which are called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%E1%B9%9Bti - smṛti ("what is remembered").

The Vedas are among the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_literature - oldest sacred texts . The Samhitas date to roughly 1500–1000 BCE, and the "circum-Vedic" texts, as well as the redaction of the Samhitas, date to c. 1000-500 BCE, resulting in a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_period - Vedic period , spanning the mid 2nd to mid 1st millennium BCE, or the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age - Late Bronze Age and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_India - Iron Age .

Transmission of texts in the Vedic period was by oral tradition alone, preserved with precision with the help of elaborate mnemonic techniques.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas

Hindus believe that the texts(the Vedas) were received by scholars direct from God and passed on to the next generations by word of mouth.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/hinduism/texts/texts.shtml



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 23 February 2014 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



A very interesting teaching if you can take the time to watch.  I think it contains valuable insights for all to consider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I - [COLOR="#0000ff - [COLOR="#0000ff" size="1 - <span lang=" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-UeKlTPV8I</span - [/COLOR - <span lang="">

</span>




Hi Caringheart,

I have something for you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAlt-hmzrgA


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 4:50pm
This, I found very interesting.



The ka'aba of Zoroaster

I am involved in an interesting study of Darius, the king of Persia... gentle ruler... one of the first not to slaughter when he conquered.  Seems people have been evolving, from contact with one another, for a very long time.
I wonder when the ka'aba in Mecca was really first built.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 5:33pm
The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

This, I found very interesting.



The ka'aba of Zoroaster

I am involved in an interesting study of Darius, the king of Persia... gentle ruler... one of the first not to slaughter when he conquered.  Seems people have been evolving, from contact with one another, for a very long time.
I wonder when the ka'aba in Mecca was really first built.


Perhaps if you had actually studied this matter more closely, you would have found out that the name "Kaaba of Zoroaster" is from the 14th-century.  It was not the name of the structure when it was first built or for centuries after.  According to the Encyclopedia Iranica, it was most likely an Achaemenid royal tomb, and there is no evidence that it was ever a shrine or a place of pilgrimage.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kaba-ye-zardost - http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kaba-ye-zardost




-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.

the ka'aba of Zoroaster....

Imoti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-24 - contends that there were numerous such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this was the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts of the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-25 -




-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 3:52pm
of further interest:

 "The Ka'aba of Mecca was one of several Ka'abas across Arabia each one dedicated to a different god and each having its own coloured stone , the one in Mecca was dedicated to the god Hubal a phoentical distortion of the Canaanite god Ba'al(it started out as Haba'al meaning "The lord" which later on gave birth to Allah which have a similar meaning). Now on the subject of who built it, it's note worthy to point out to the Islamic 3 "Satan's stelles" that Muslims gather around each year to throw stones at in a symbolic way of stoning the Devil .

 Which obviously are obelisks of an Ancient Egyptian design, so I'm inclined to thinking that ancient Egyptians had a hand in its inception , another story worthy of note imo is the story of Abdullah ibn Jada'an a Meccan from around the Time of Muhammad, who was at the beginning banished from the city for being a vagabond and a troublemaker, is reported to have a found a hidden royal burial chamber of the first kings of Mecca full of gold objects making him the richest man in Mecca which granted him the right of return to Mecca (and also it's reported in Islamic tradition that when he opened the tomb he found a giant golden serpent ) so yeah I think Egyptians had a very strong hand in the foundation of Mecca not to mention that even the Islamic story of it's foundation includes Egyptian figures like Hagar which was an Egyptian Servant of Abraham and Ishmail's mother.

 The Bedouins (who raised Mohammed) had Djins - square stone boxes where they believed spirits rested. The Kaaba can be seen loosely as fitting in with this tradition, although the Kaaba could be walked into. There are still some Djins in Petra. If you google 'Djin', you'll see some images. The Kaaba was a place where different, often warring Bedouin tribes would come and, in respite from war, honour their gods. This helped foster trade, and Mecca developed as a commercial as well as spiritual hub."


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Caringheart

The Cathars of France were said to have a stone that had fallen from heaven... it was also by some believed that the Holy Grail was a dark stone...   ???  Interesting where mythology will take you.

the ka'aba of Zoroaster....

Imoti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-24 - contends that there were numerous such "Kaaba" sanctuaries in Arabia at one time, but this was the only one built of stone. The others also allegedly had counterparts of the Black Stone. There was a "red stone", the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and the "white stone" in the Kaaba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca). Grunebaum in Classical Islam points out that the experience of divinity of that period was often associated with stone fetishes, mountains, special rock formations, or "trees of strange growth." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba#cite_note-25 -




LOL Great..."Caringheart" tries to keep her train-wreck going by referring to Wikipedia.  Is it any surprise that she never provides references for the nonsense she copies from the internet? 

The fact that there were other stones in pre-Islamic Arabia does not come as a surprise.  What else would one expect in a pagan land?   

It is a well-known fact that the Kaaba in Mecca was an ancient site that was revered by all Arabians.  This is what Von Grunebaum stated:

"Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabia foundation created round a sanctuary..."


Moreover, Edward Gibbon wrote:

"The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad." [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/kaaba.html ]

Hence, it is clear that the Kaaba was an important and ancient sanctuary in Arabia, far older than any other such sites.


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:39pm
Greetings islamispeace,

I would have to say that wikipedia is a lot less biased source than islamic-awareness.org  Smile
However, I am not disputing with you.
Did you pay attention to the title of the thread?

Shouldn't you be at prayers?  Wink

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

of further interest:

 "The Ka'aba of Mecca was one of several Ka'abas across Arabia each one dedicated to a different god and each having its own coloured stone , the one in Mecca was dedicated to the god Hubal a phoentical distortion of the Canaanite god Ba'al(it started out as Haba'al meaning "The lord" which later on gave birth to Allah which have a similar meaning). Now on the subject of who built it, it's note worthy to point out to the Islamic 3 "Satan's stelles" that Muslims gather around each year to throw stones at in a symbolic way of stoning the Devil .

 Which obviously are obelisks of an Ancient Egyptian design, so I'm inclined to thinking that ancient Egyptians had a hand in its inception , another story worthy of note imo is the story of Abdullah ibn Jada'an a Meccan from around the Time of Muhammad, who was at the beginning banished from the city for being a vagabond and a troublemaker, is reported to have a found a hidden royal burial chamber of the first kings of Mecca full of gold objects making him the richest man in Mecca which granted him the right of return to Mecca (and also it's reported in Islamic tradition that when he opened the tomb he found a giant golden serpent ) so yeah I think Egyptians had a very strong hand in the foundation of Mecca not to mention that even the Islamic story of it's foundation includes Egyptian figures like Hagar which was an Egyptian Servant of Abraham and Ishmail's mother.

 The Bedouins (who raised Mohammed) had Djins - square stone boxes where they believed spirits rested. The Kaaba can be seen loosely as fitting in with this tradition, although the Kaaba could be walked into. There are still some Djins in Petra. If you google 'Djin', you'll see some images. The Kaaba was a place where different, often warring Bedouin tribes would come and, in respite from war, honour their gods. This helped foster trade, and Mecca developed as a commercial as well as spiritual hub."


LOL Great..."Caringheart" tries to keep train-wreck going by copying some random web forum [ http://historum.com/ancient-history/44797-so-who-built-kaaba-2.html - http://historum.com/ancient-history/44797-so-who-built-kaaba-2.html ].  How objective!

The fact is that the Kaaba was not dedicated to Hubal.  According to Von Grunebaum (whom we met previously LOL):

"It seems quite a defensible suggestion that even before Muhammad the Ka'ba was first and foremost the holy place of Allah, and not that of the Hubal..."


As for the ridiculous claim that Hubal was the same as Baal, scholars say otherwise:

"The Qur'an condemns Baʿal worship. Moreover, it is also clear that in both the Nabataean and Arabic scripts the difference between Hubal and Baʿal (with an ʿayn) always existed, and that they were considered two distinct deities." [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hubal.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/hubal.html ]

These are the facts that any rational person not blinded by a priori assumptions and bias should be able to ascertain.  Unfortunately, it seems that some nitwits never learn! LOL


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings islamispeace,

I would have to say that wikipedia is a lot less biased source than islamic-awareness.org  Smile
However, I am not disputing with you.
Did you pay attention to the title of the thread?

Shouldn't you be at prayers?  Wink


LOL Riiight...Wikipedia, where articles are written by anonymous buffoons, is "less biased" than than a website maintained by an actual scholar who is affiliated with the University of Cambridge among others [ http://www.islamic-awareness.org/faq.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/faq.html ]

Oh and I just finished prayers.  Shouldn't you go back to the loony bin?  Isn't it your bedtime? WinkWacko


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 31 August 2014 at 8:26pm
I mentioned the following on another thread, but since it is relevant here, I am mentioning it here as well.

We routinely see Christian fanatics trying to attack the origins of the title "Allah" for God, claiming that Allah was a pagan god.  Unfortunately for these people, the fact is that Jews and Christians had no trouble referring to God as Allah, so the polemical attacks are simply pointless and fall flat.

What is even more ironic is that had these people taken the time to investigate the origins of the name of God in the Bible, Yahweh, they would be shocked as to its origins.  According to Professor Mark S. Smith:

"...Yahweh, originally a warrior-god from Sinai/Paran/Edom/Teiman was known separately from El at an early point in early Israel.  Perhaps due to trade with Edom/Midian, Yahweh entered secondarily into the Israelite highland religion" ("The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel", pp. 32-33)  

He also adds that, originally, "the god of Israel" was not "Yahweh" but "El". 


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 October 2014 at 9:45pm
Another very interesting discussion, well worth listening to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppT8JK1loSg


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 11:16pm
Zoroastrianism

progressive mentality \
destructive mentality  / two opposing forces under one God

illuminating Wisdom - God - Ahura Mazda, "wise Lord", the uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed
(faith with a transcendent divinity, widely believed to have influenced the theology of Isma'ilism)

the "chaotic" is represented by Angra Mainyu (also referred to as "Ahriman"), the "Destructive Principle"
(here I take note of a similarity, the word angry, bears similarity to Angra... and anger is truly a destructive force)

the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation
(this is a concept very much like the Christian, Holy Spirit)
Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world.

Ahura Mazda's creation— widely agreed as asha, truth and order
is the antithesis of chaos, which is evident as druj, falsehood and disorder

The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict


Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail over the evil Angra Mainyu or Ahriman, at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end. In the final renovation, all of creation—even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness"—will be reunited in Ahura Mazda, returning to life in the undead form. At the end of time, a savior-figure (a Saoshyant) will bring about a final renovation of the world (frashokereti), in which the dead will be revived.



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 07 November 2014 at 2:05am
Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 November 2014 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by The Saint

Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?

Greetings The Saint,

No I am not a Parsi.  I just find the crossovers among all the ancient religions fascinating and important. Smile

asalaam,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 09 November 2014 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by The Saint

Hello Caringheart

Are you a Parsi? Do you believe in the divine origin of Islam?
Greetings The Saint,No I am not a Parsi.  I just find the crossovers among all the ancient religions fascinating and important. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />asalaam,Caringheart


In that case, you should be very careful of what you post. You must always double-check your facts.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 February 2015 at 12:13am
The followers of the God of Abraham never built any ka'aba... this was a thing of the polytheists. 
Wherever Abraham went he built altars to God... stone pilings.
The Israelites built the 'Temple of God' where 'God dwelt with them'... where the Ark of the Covenant was housed.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 20 February 2015 at 2:18am
The followers of the God of Abraham never built any ka'aba... this was a thing of the polytheists.

What polytheistic practices are seen at the Kaaba, today?

Indeed, at the time of Muhammad PBUH polytheists had taken over the Kaaba. But by the grace of Allah SWT Muhammad PBUH restored its sanctity by ridding it of all stone idols and established the in violable Oneness of Allah.


Wherever Abraham went he built altars to God... stone pilings.

So? By the order of Allah Almighty he built a brick and mortar square that would make all the faithful face it when they pray, wherever they happen to be on the globe.Something never done on earth before. And still unique to Islam.


The Israelites built the 'Temple of God' where 'God dwelt with them'... where the Ark of the Covenant was housed.

Allah SWT never dwelt with anyone. He is formless and He is far and above His creations.


Posted By: lindseynicole
Date Posted: 20 February 2015 at 3:00am
Philosophy of religion is concerned with the philosophical appraisal of human religious attitude and of the real or imaginary objects of those attitudes, God or the Gods. The philosophy of religion is the undivided part of the philosophy as such concerned with the central issues of the nature and extent of human knowledge. 


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 February 2015 at 11:50am
Originally posted by The Saint

The followers of the God of Abraham never built any ka'aba... this was a thing of the polytheists.

What polytheistic practices are seen at the Kaaba, today?

Greetings The Saint,

None.  Muhammad had the ka'aba re-purposed to fit his religion.

Originally posted by The Saint

Indeed, at the time of Muhammad PBUH polytheists had taken over the Kaaba. But by the grace of Allah SWT Muhammad PBUH restored its sanctity by ridding it of all stone idols and established the in violable Oneness of Allah.

I think it goes without saying, that the polytheists were the ones that built the ka'aba.
The dwelling place of the One God of Abraham has always been in Jerusalem.
Originally posted by The Saint


Wherever Abraham went he built altars to God... stone pilings.

So? By the order of Allah Almighty he built a brick and mortar square that would make all the faithful face it when they pray, wherever they happen to be on the globe.Something never done on earth before. And still unique to Islam.

Do you know that when the muslims pray to the ka'aba, they turn their backs to the dwelling place of the God of Abraham? ... turn their backs on the God they think they worship?

Originally posted by The Saint


The Israelites built the 'Temple of God' where 'God dwelt with them'... where the Ark of the Covenant was housed.

Allah SWT never dwelt with anyone. He is formless and He is far and above His creations.

Ah... now I understand.  You are perhaps unaware of the way in which God manifested at the temple in Jerusalem, and within the Ark of the Covenant?

Sorry to be so short... I am pressed for time, but saw your reply and wanted to respond.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 21 February 2015 at 4:14am
Greetings The Saint,

None. Muhammad had the ka'aba re-purposed to fit his religion.

I think, cleansed is the word you are looking for.

I think it goes without saying, that the polytheists were the ones that built the ka'aba.

No, Ibrahim AS and His first son Ismail AS built it at the command of Allah SWT. The Quran confirms the fact.

The dwelling place of the One God of Abraham has always been in Jerusalem.

Dwelling? Please clarify in what sense do use the word? Allah SWT is not a physical entity as we know physical entities.

Do you know that when the muslims pray to the ka'aba, they turn their backs to the dwelling place of the God of Abraham? ... turn their backs on the God they think they worship?

Muslims do not think so, you do. Because Muslims do not believe Allah SWT lives on this puny earth.

Ah... now I understand. You are perhaps unaware of the way in which God manifested at the temple in Jerusalem, and within the Ark of the Covenant?

I am aware of the nature of God, as He describes it in the Quran. And I know that He is all knowing but not omnipresent. He does show His signs but He does not manifest Himself. The mountain where Allah SWT gave an audience to Musa AS burnt down because it was subjected to a flash of a manifestation. But it was only to convince Musa AS that mortals cannot behold the divine. Men cannot bear a divine manifestation.

Sorry to be so short... I am pressed for time, but saw your reply and wanted to respond.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart

Peace
The Saint


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 21 February 2015 at 4:16am
No follower built it. Ibrahim AS and His son Ismail built it.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 February 2015 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by The Saint


The dwelling place of the One God of Abraham has always been in Jerusalem.

Dwelling? Please clarify in what sense do use the word? Allah SWT is not a physical entity as we know physical entities.

Ah... now I understand. You are perhaps unaware of the way in which God manifested at the temple in Jerusalem, and within the Ark of the Covenant?

I am aware of the nature of God, as He describes it in the Quran. And I know that He is all knowing but not omnipresent. He does show His signs but He does not manifest Himself.

Greetings The Saint,

These are the recordings of the history in the books of the Israelites, including from the Psalms of David(the Zabur).

Exodus 13
17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
18 But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.
19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.

20 And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness.

21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.


Exodus 24
12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.

16 And the glory of the Lord abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.


Leviticus
16:2 And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Numbers 7
89 And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spake unto him.

1 Kings 8
 And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.


Exodus 25
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

10 And they shall make an ark of shittim wood
...
16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.
...
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.


2 Samuel 6
6 And when they came to Nachon's threshing floor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.

7 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

(the people witnessed that there was the power of God in the Ark... How shall these things be explained if not the power of God dwelling among them?  At least this is how they saw it.)


Psalm 132
Lord, remember David, and all his afflictions:
2 How he sware unto the Lord, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob;
3 Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;
4 I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,

5 Until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob.

6 Lo, we heard of it at Ephratah: we found it in the fields of the wood.

7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool.

8 Arise, O Lord, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.

13 For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.


Psalms of David, #135

21 Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, which dwelleth at Jerusalem. Praise ye the Lord.


1 Chronicles 28
2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:

3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.

10 Take heed now; for the Lord hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it.
11 Then David gave to Solomon his son the pattern of the porch, and of the houses thereof, and of the treasuries thereof, and of the upper chambers thereof, and of the inner parlours thereof, and of the place of the mercy seat,
...
19 All this, said David, the Lord made me understand in writing by his hand upon me, even all the works of this pattern.


Haggai 1
1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the Lord by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,

4 Is it time for you, O ye, to dwell in your cieled houses, and this My house lies waste?
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Consider your ways.

8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house
; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the Lord.


2 Chronicles 3
3 Now these are the things wherein Solomon was instructed for the building of the house of God. The length by cubits after the first measure was threescore cubits, and the breadth twenty cubits.
...
(and it goes on to describe the whole building of the temple with its specifications)

There is possibly much more.... this is what the Lord has given me to share. 

You may read and decide for yourself what you think they might mean.
I often ponder over the meaning of all these things. Smile

Originally posted by The Saint


The mountain where Allah SWT gave an audience to Musa AS burnt down because it was subjected to a flash of a manifestation. But it was only to convince Musa AS that mortals cannot behold the divine. Men cannot bear a divine manifestation.

Can you please share with me, where I will find this in the qur'an?

Shukran, asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart



-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: The Saint
Date Posted: 02 March 2015 at 3:11am
Greetings CH

I am giving you a Wiki reference below. Which confirms that this location is mentioned in the holy books of all Abrahamic faiths.

Mount Sinai (Arabic: طُور سِينَاء, translit.: Ṭūr Sīnāʼ ; Egyptian Arabic: جَبَل مُوسَى, translit.: Jabal Mūsā or Gabal Mūsā; literally "Moses' Mountain" or "Mount Moses"; Hebrew: הר סיני‎و translit. Har Sinai), also known as Mount Horeb, is a mountain in the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt that is a possible location of the biblical Mount Sinai. The latter is mentioned many times in the Book of Exodus in the Torah, the Bible,[1> and the Quran.[2> According to Jewish, Christian, and Islamic tradition, the biblical Mount Sinai was the place where Moses received the Ten Commandments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Sinai

And here is the reference from the Quran proving that God Almighty does not manifest Himself. That He just cannot be seen.

7:143. When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him,
He said: "O my Lord! show [Thyself> to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah
said: "By no means canst thou see Me [direct>; But look upon the mount; if it
abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory
on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he
recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance,
and I am the first to believe."

A little background to this concept will help you grasp the true understanding of it.

The important thing to keep in mind is that Allah does not force us to come to Him or to submit to what He has ordained. This means that we always have a choice. And one of the important things about that choice is that Allah never makes it so obvious that their would no longer be a choice. So, all through the human's life there is the opportunity to turn away from evil and choose to worship Allah on His Terms. At the same time, there is of course the equal opportunity to turn away from guidance and then become of the losers.

If anyone ever had seen Allah - how could they then be in a fair test? Also, in Islam we know that if Allah "reveals" Himself to a mountain it would crumble out of the tremendous experience. And the prophet's wife, Ayesha, may Allah be pleased with her, told us that if anyone says that the prophet, peace be upon him, saw Allah Subhannah wa Ta'ala, that person is a liar.

The biggest goal for the Muslims in the Next Life is not, as they so wrongly portray it on TV and the newspapers, to have virgins running around and wine to drink, not at all. The biggest and highest honor of the Next Life is to have a chance to actually stand in front of the "Presence of Allah." And this is described in authentic hadeeths (teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him).

Although we are all definitely looking forward to the Paradise and all that it contains, we look to this as being the highest and greatest of all honors and favors of Allah - the opportunity to just be "close to Allah" from time to time in the Paradise. I get all excited just thinking about it.

These are some of the reasons why we don't "see" Allah in this life.

That is, Allah cannot be seen in the life of this world, nor can He be heard, smelled, felt, imagined, or any other sense that we have. As I have already outlined, that would violate the principle of Him not interfering with our choices. Additionally, Allah is never to be compared to His creation in any way, shape or form. This means that He does not enter His creation, nor does He grant any of His creation any of His attributes or power for that matter. All power, might and strenght are with Allah and there is none who can challenge Him, ever.

We do not put Allah in the creation. We say what Allah says about Himself in His Book, that He created the Heavens and the earth in six days and then He rose above His Throne (in a manner that befits His Majesty). We don't say He sits or lays on His throne because He did not say that about Himself. Muslims are to take care never to say anything about Allah that they do not have the authority to say. This is blasphemy and it is kufr (out of Islam).

Allah says that He does not compare in any way to any part of His creation. He tells us that He is "All Hearing, All Seeing, All Compassionate, All Loving, All Mighty, etc." But He never says that He is "all present" in His creation. Also, we know that He does not give people powers like superman. People have claimed to have powers with Allah, but they are liars (even if they claim to be Muslims). There are no partners with Allah and He is far above what ever they would try to compare to Him in anyway.

I sincerely hope this has helped.



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