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Paying Palestinian Families to Emigrate

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Discription: Current Events
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24572
Printed Date: 29 August 2014 at 1:04am


Topic: Paying Palestinian Families to Emigrate
Posted By: abuayisha
Subject: Paying Palestinian Families to Emigrate
Date Posted: 02 January 2013 at 1:00pm
http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-hardliner-suggests-paying-palestinian-families-to-emigrate-from-west-bank/ -
 
http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-hardliner-suggests-paying-palestinian-families-to-emigrate-from-west-bank/



Replies:
Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 02 January 2013 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-hardliner-suggests-paying-palestinian-families-to-emigrate-from-west-bank/ -
 
http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-hardliner-suggests-paying-palestinian-families-to-emigrate-from-west-bank/


I also heard talk of this when I was in the West Bank in 2010 with ISM and CPT. This may be now being discussed as a policy, but the idea was already circulating before that.

In the West Bank, especially Hebron, the settlers and IDF work together to make life so difficult for Palestinian families that eventually they will leave their homes. It is a form of slow and to many people invisible ethnic cleansing.

There are no mass graves or concentration camps like in Bosnia or Darfur.

Rather, there are the everyday humiliations at checkpoints, beating and house invasions, the occasional murder, restricting access to necessities like water. The world is watching and for the most part doing nothing.


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 02 January 2013 at 4:42pm

I really like the idea of taking a payout and emigrating for a better future.  It would also be nice to offer those who are still refugees in neighboring countries an opportunity for collecting funds and moving to the west.  There are plently of Muslims in the west so Palestininans should have a somewhat soft landing, and many likely have family in the west already.



Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 02 January 2013 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

I really like the idea of taking a payout and emigrating for a better future.  It would also be nice to offer those who are still refugees in neighboring countries an opportunity for collecting funds and moving to the west.  There are plently of Muslims in the west so Palestininans should have a somewhat soft landing, and many likely have family in the west already.


I think that those who want to leave should not be criticized for doing so. However, I am opposed to the ethnic cleansing.

 I think it is horrible of Israel to make lives for these people a living nightmare and then pay them a small sum to leave and never come back. This should be confronted.

I think it is also shameful how Arab countries have treated the Palestinian refugees living in them.


The solution I think is not to have Palestinians leave or Israelis leave. The solution is an agreement where they both live in peace, dignity and have equal rights. The land belongs to them both.

Anything less would be an injustice.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 03 January 2013 at 11:12am

http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/?p=bayanat&id=3477 - Leaders Speech to Government Officials on the EidalFitr

This words are belong to leader of Iran

(mind of most of muslems )

Day of Quds the rallies which once again gave a fresh impetus to the issue of Palestine in the international arena although the issue of Palestine will always remain alive The issue of Palestine is not among the issues to be forgotten by Muslim nations Bygone is the day when the usurpers of Palestine and their international supporters assumed that the issue of Palestine would fall into oblivion Today the falsity of this assumption has been revealed by the allout resistance and perseverance of the Palestinian nation Today the usurpers of Quds have become more aware of the significant and momentous status of Palestine compared with fifty years ago In those days they thought that Palestine was a forgotten spot in the world They called Palestine an uninhabited land But of course some drawbacks and shortcomings also contributed to this wrong assumption However today the situation is quite different Today the Palestinian people are standing firm and the hearts of other Muslim nations are filled with zeal and devotion to the cause of Palestinians The Islamic world should never forget the issue of Palestine It is a grave mistake if one holds the view that the Islamic governments backing off in the face of arrogant powers on the issue of Palestine will appease these powers As a matter of fact the frequent backing off on the part of Islamic governments has prompted the arrogant US government to nurture the vain dream of dominating the Middle East The United States is dreaming of a region totally under its influence and domination but today the reality on the ground is something else The silence of Islamic governments and their passivity on the political and international scene will make arrogant powers especially US administration even more impudent and insolent We hold a fair and logical stance on the issue of Palestine Several decades ago Egyptian statesman Gamal Abdel Nasser who was the most popular Arab personality stated in his slogans that the Egyptians would throw the Jewish usurpers of Palestine into the sea Some years later Saddam Hussein the most hated Arab figure said that he would put half of the Palestinian land on fire But we would not approve of either of these two remarks We believe according to our Islamic principles that neither throwing the Jews into the sea nor putting the Palestinian land on fire is logical and reasonable Our position is that the Palestinian people should regain their rights Palestine belongs to Palestinians and the fate of Palestine should also be determined by the Palestinian people The issue of Palestine is a criterion for judging how truthful those claiming to support democracy and human rights are in their claims The Islamic Republic of Iran has presented a fair and logical solution to this issue We have suggested that all native Palestinians whether they are Muslims Christians or Jews should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government Under that Palestinian government criminals like Sharon and others who have committed crimes in Palestine should stand trial at a competent court of justice It is also up to that government to decide about the fate of those who have immigrated to Palestine from various parts of the world This is a logical solution to the Palestinian issue Today millions of Palestinians are living as refugees in various countries and millions of other Palestinians are living in camps under the worst circumstances but other people are living in the Palestinian territories This is not fair and reasonable The fact that some 50 or 55 years has since passed would not obliterate the crime that has been committed against Palestinians or reduce its severity In the contemporary world there have been countries whose governments were for some 50 or 60 years run by those who did not belong to those nations But later the situation changed and the usurpers were ousted For instance following the collapse and disintegration of the former Soviet Union many countries were once again governed by their own nations Such things are possible and not unprecedented in the world They have occurred in our time and before our eyes This is also what should take place in Palestine and it will sooner or later happen Today Muslim nations are experiencing an awakening and the Islamic Ummah is an undeniable reality of the present world The hearts of Muslim nations are filled with deep hatred for bullying and domineering powers and usurpers If these nations find an opportunity they will all support and champion the cause of the Palestinian people The raising of the banner of Islam by the Islamic Republic of Iran has infused other Muslim nations with great hopes and aspirations This is the main reason for the enmity of arrogant powers toward our country By the favor of Allah these hopes and aspirations will yield positive results We should realize that backing off in the face of arrogant powers will make them even more audacious but resistance of Muslim nations and their standing up to domineering powers will thwart these powers in their goals and cause their failure Despite all their propaganda and ballyhoo the worlds arrogant powers do not wield infinite power You can see that in Iraq what the United States had wished for did not materialize Today what is happening in Iraq is not what US officials had hoped for Nevertheless atrocious crimes are currently being committed in Iraq and innocent people are killed every day as a result of vicious acts of terrorism We are deeply suspicious of American and Israeli intelligence services with regard to these acts of terrorism since they are the ones who will benefit from the current situation in Iraq Security in Iraq is not in the occupiers interest What provides a pretext for their continued occupation and domination of Iraq is insecurity in that country Thus they are the ones who are suspected with regard to the current acts of terrorism in Iraq However the Iraqi nation is not the kind of nation to accept or submit to US hegemony and domination I pray to Almighty Allah to awaken us Muslims and make us familiar with our duties so that we may further contribute to the honor dignity and prosperity of the Islamic Ummah through our efforts and endeavors I also pray to the Almighty to bestow success on Muslim nations and assist them in performing their responsibilities I hope the Iranian nation and other Muslim nations will soon witness the positive results of their sincere efforts and endeavors Greetings be upon you and Allah`s mercy and blessings.
2005/11/04



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i try to say only facts


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 4:26am
Originally posted by whitelion553

http://www.leader.ir/langs/en/?p=bayanat&id=3477 -

This words are belong to leader of Iran

(mind of most of muslems )

Day of Quds the rallies which once again gave a fresh impetus to the issue of Palestine in the international arena although the issue of Palestine will always remain alive The issue of Palestine is not among the issues to be forgotten by Muslim nations Bygone is the day when the usurpers of Palestine and their international supporters assumed that the issue of Palestine would fall into oblivion Today the falsity of this assumption has been revealed by the allout resistance and perseverance of the Palestinian nation Today the usurpers of Quds have become more aware of the significant and momentous status of Palestine compared with fifty years ago In those days they thought that Palestine was a forgotten spot in the world They called Palestine an uninhabited land But of course some drawbacks and shortcomings also contributed to this wrong assumption However today the situation is quite different Today the Palestinian people are standing firm and the hearts of other Muslim nations are filled with zeal and devotion to the cause of Palestinians The Islamic world should never forget the issue of Palestine It is a grave mistake if one holds the view that the Islamic governments backing off in the face of arrogant powers on the issue of Palestine will appease these powers As a matter of fact the frequent backing off on the part of Islamic governments has prompted the arrogant US government to nurture the vain dream of dominating the Middle East The United States is dreaming of a region totally under its influence and domination but today the reality on the ground is something else The silence of Islamic governments and their passivity on the political and international scene will make arrogant powers especially US administration even more impudent and insolent We hold a fair and logical stance on the issue of Palestine Several decades ago Egyptian statesman Gamal Abdel Nasser who was the most popular Arab personality stated in his slogans that the Egyptians would throw the Jewish usurpers of Palestine into the sea Some years later Saddam Hussein the most hated Arab figure said that he would put half of the Palestinian land on fire But we would not approve of either of these two remarks We believe according to our Islamic principles that neither throwing the Jews into the sea nor putting the Palestinian land on fire is logical and reasonable Our position is that the Palestinian people should regain their rights Palestine belongs to Palestinians and the fate of Palestine should also be determined by the Palestinian people The issue of Palestine is a criterion for judging how truthful those claiming to support democracy and human rights are in their claims The Islamic Republic of Iran has presented a fair and logical solution to this issue We have suggested that all native Palestinians whether they are Muslims Christians or Jews should be allowed to take part in a general referendum before the eyes of the world and decide on a Palestinian government Any government that is the result of this referendum will be a legitimate government Under that Palestinian government criminals like Sharon and others who have committed crimes in Palestine should stand trial at a competent court of justice It is also up to that government to decide about the fate of those who have immigrated to Palestine from various parts of the world This is a logical solution to the Palestinian issue Today millions of Palestinians are living as refugees in various countries and millions of other Palestinians are living in camps under the worst circumstances but other people are living in the Palestinian territories This is not fair and reasonable The fact that some 50 or 55 years has since passed would not obliterate the crime that has been committed against Palestinians or reduce its severity In the contemporary world there have been countries whose governments were for some 50 or 60 years run by those who did not belong to those nations But later the situation changed and the usurpers were ousted For instance following the collapse and disintegration of the former Soviet Union many countries were once again governed by their own nations Such things are possible and not unprecedented in the world They have occurred in our time and before our eyes This is also what should take place in Palestine and it will sooner or later happen Today Muslim nations are experiencing an awakening and the Islamic Ummah is an undeniable reality of the present world The hearts of Muslim nations are filled with deep hatred for bullying and domineering powers and usurpers If these nations find an opportunity they will all support and champion the cause of the Palestinian people The raising of the banner of Islam by the Islamic Republic of Iran has infused other Muslim nations with great hopes and aspirations This is the main reason for the enmity of arrogant powers toward our country By the favor of Allah these hopes and aspirations will yield positive results We should realize that backing off in the face of arrogant powers will make them even more audacious but resistance of Muslim nations and their standing up to domineering powers will thwart these powers in their goals and cause their failure Despite all their propaganda and ballyhoo the worlds arrogant powers do not wield infinite power You can see that in Iraq what the United States had wished for did not materialize Today what is happening in Iraq is not what US officials had hoped for Nevertheless atrocious crimes are currently being committed in Iraq and innocent people are killed every day as a result of vicious acts of terrorism We are deeply suspicious of American and Israeli intelligence services with regard to these acts of terrorism since they are the ones who will benefit from the current situation in Iraq Security in Iraq is not in the occupiers interest What provides a pretext for their continued occupation and domination of Iraq is insecurity in that country Thus they are the ones who are suspected with regard to the current acts of terrorism in Iraq However the Iraqi nation is not the kind of nation to accept or submit to US hegemony and domination I pray to Almighty Allah to awaken us Muslims and make us familiar with our duties so that we may further contribute to the honor dignity and prosperity of the Islamic Ummah through our efforts and endeavors I also pray to the Almighty to bestow success on Muslim nations and assist them in performing their responsibilities I hope the Iranian nation and other Muslim nations will soon witness the positive results of their sincere efforts and endeavors Greetings be upon you and Allah`s mercy and blessings.
2005/11/04


No offence, but I couldn't care less about what Ahmedinejad thinks.

While he decries the occupation of Palestine, he is hypocritically occupying parts of Kurdistan and his soldiers have fired artillery at the Kurdish people and have killed small children as well. He has had his own people shot to death in the streets for opposing him.

He is as credible in my opinion on issues of human rights and freedom as George W Bush or Benjamin Netanyahu.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 8:28am
dear friend,i must say 2 important  issue to you
1:iran is the best country and respect to all kind of religions special to other religions.people of kurdestan are our dears and we like them they are our brothers and sisters.we live here and you say us what is going in IranBig%20smile
enemies of islam and our dear country dont want see peace and safety in iran and want that creat war among sunni and shia but we will defend infront of this lies and tricks.
2:leader of iran is khameneiee no ahmadinejad.he is our president,ok.
we are muslem and our religion dont allow to us that kill guiltless people.
all of iranians are dear ,kurds are very kind people .we have many kurd friends,Iran is belong them,too.they defend from iran when iran was in difficult condition (8 years war that its cause was saddam)many of dear kurd people became martyr and defended from iran (their land),their family and their believes.
now,  enemies of Iran terror them and want to say it is work of government  but all of
us know that it is a big lie. we live near together and like each other. they are from iran,too.they live ,study and...happily.be certain iran is better than other countries and respect to all people.all of them.enemies of islam put bombs in our cities special Ahvaz,kurdestan and zahedan.is it fair???


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i try to say only facts


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by whitelion553

dear friend,i must say 2 important  issue to you
1:iran is the best country and respect to all kind of religions special to other religions.people of kurdestan are our dears and we like them they are our brothers and sisters.we live here and you say us what is going in IranBig%20smile
enemies of islam and our dear country dont want see peace and safety in iran and want that creat war emong sunni and shia but we will defend infront of this lies and tricks.
2:leader of iran is khameneiee no ahmadinejad.he is our president,ok.
we are muslem and our religion dont allow to us that kill guiltless people.
all of iranians are dear ,kurds are very kind people .we have many kurd friends,Iran is belong them,too.they defend from iran when iran was in difficult condition (8 years war that its cause was saddam)many of dear kurd people became martyr and defend from iran (their land),their family and their believes.
now,  enemies of Iran terror them and want to say it is work of government  but all of
us know that it is a big lie. we live near together and like each other. they are from iran,too.they live ,study and...happily.be certain iran is better than other countries and repect to all people.all of them.enemies of islam put bomb in our cities special Ahvaz,kurdestan and zahedan.is it fair???


Mohammad Ahmad was one and a half years old. He was a Kurdish baby, beginning his life. Until an Iranian attack that killed him, and injured his Dad. It caused 50 villagers to flee their homes.

http://www.cpt.org/cptnet/2009/04/21/iraq-cpt-visits-family-baby-killed-iranian-shelling


Sabir, a 20 year old Kurdish farmer who has been crippled because of Iranian military actions.

http://www.cpt.org/cptnet/2009/12/21/iraq-sabir039s-story

The story of Zharawa, a refugee camp that Iran has been shelling.

http://www.cpt.org/work/iraq/interviews/bapiir-hadji%20amin



These accounts were collected by Christian Peacemaker Teams, a human rights group that has volunteers in Iraqi Kurdistan. They are not Zionists or pro-US in any way- I was with them in Palestine 2 years ago and we worked to help the Palestinians under Israeli occupation.

They do not support an attack on Iran, or any war, because as Christians we believe war is wrong.


They at the same time expose what Iran is doing to the Kurdish people. Ahmedinejad or Khamenei or whoever is in charge, it doesn't matter.

Iran's condemnation of Israel is hypocritical while they occupy and bomb their Kurdish neighbours.

Allah Akhbar.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 8:12pm

Iranians from all bloods and groups like :Kurd ,Turk ,Azary ,Lor, Fars, Arab , Ajam andÖand all religions like :Shia ,Sunni ,Zoroastrain ,Christianity andÖ are unit. men and women of it are patriot and brave.they like their country ,their leader ,their revolution and culture  .they never surrender to enemy.kurdish cities were the first cities that Saddam invaded to them with chemical bombs. Army of Saddam killed thousands of them .brave women and men of kurdestan always defend from Iran in borders of it .we are thankful from them for our safety.

dear friend ,Iran help to palestin more than you.this is one reality and all of people of there are our friends .this is duty of all muslems .they must help together.we must help palestin,Gazza,Surya,Afghanistan ,Bahrein,Pakistan and...

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i try to say only facts


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:35am
Originally posted by whitelion553

Iranians from all bloods and groups like :Kurd ,Turk ,Azary ,Lor, Fars, Arab , Ajam andÖand all religions like :Shia ,Sunni ,Zoroastrain ,Christianity andÖ are unit. men and women of it are patriot and brave.they like their country ,their leader ,their revolution and culture  .they never surrender to enemy.kurdish cities were the first cities that Saddam invaded to them with chemical bombs. Army of Saddam killed thousands of them .brave women and men of kurdestan always defend from Iran in borders of it .we are thankful from them for our safety.

dear friend ,Iran help to palestin more than you.this is one reality and all of people of there are our friends .this is duty of all muslems .they must help together.we must help palestin,Gazza,Surya,Afghanistan ,Bahrein,Pakistan and...


... and also the Kurds, who are being bombed by Iran and Turkey.

True, Saddam Hussein committed horrific crimes against the Kurds. This makes Iran's bombing of them even more despicable. Have they not suffered enough?


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 10:02pm

Dear friend ,every country has its personal problems .

but problem  of Iran isnt its nation .kurds are our dears . they are part of nation of Iran and have  very important role in it

`they have all rights that an Iranian has. They live freely here ,they live in all cities of Iran .not only in Kurdestan, you can see them every where of Iran because Iran is belong to them ,too. they can live every where and do every work .they can study in every university because they are Iranian (ok).problem of Iran is western countries ,they cant see progress of Iran .they banned Iran and cause hard condition of life for its nation .they must know that this silly actions caused that spirit of Iranians be stronger . we know that our way is right .Iran is an Islamic country and has rules of Islam and Allah said in Quran that muslems will be victor  at last. Iranian resist in front of all embargoes .Iran is an independent and powerful  country .do you know how many scientists and guiltless people terrorized  in this  last years by terrorists in Iran? many of them terrorized in mosques , busy places, in front of their family  in their car or door of their homes .do you know many of Iranians killed by Rigi(foul) in borders of Zahedan   and by mischief makings in borders of Iran ,turkya and  Iraq .most of this mischief makings come from Ashraf garrison(in Iraq) to Iran and terror Iranians special kurds because kurds live in borders of Iran .now this mischief makings live in camps in Iraq . terroristic group of Pezhak and P.K.K  are  in borders of iran and turkya and kill many of  kurds of iran .dear friend ,government of an Islamic country cant kill its nation because this government is belong to muslems and they never allow this work happen. Most of kurds are our friends .  muslems donít kill their friends and their religious  brothers .this is Haram and a big sin. army of Iran are children of its nation and there are kurds among them how they can kill their family? please, think

All of this tricks has made by  stranger countries, they  cant see calmness and safety in Iran and want to make war among tribes .

Iran is a friendly  country and wants to help to all countries but they disturb it .all of Iranians have freedom .all of them have their human rights in this land(heartland).we didnít see right of humans  in western countries or their  colorful markets.

Iran is special for its special nation .our dear country   was very vast in past but tricks of other countries caused that this historical country  became small .we learnt that only rely to Allah .for bad memories of interference of foreign  countries ,Iran never let to them that say one word about it .thanks Allah, condition of Iran is excellent and will be better in future if others let.

 

 



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i try to say only facts


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 11:35am
Originally posted by whitelion553

Dear friend ,every country has its personal problems .

but problem  of Iran isnt its nation .kurds are our dears . they are part of nation of Iran and have  very important role in it

`they have all rights that an Iranian has. They live freely here ,they live in all cities of Iran .not only in Kurdestan, you can see them every where of Iran because Iran is belong to them ,too. they can live every where and do every work .they can study in every university because they are Iranian (ok).problem of Iran is western countries ,they cant see progress of Iran .they banned Iran and cause hard condition of life for its nation .they must know that this silly actions caused that spirit of Iranians be stronger . we know that our way is right .Iran is an Islamic country and has rules of Islam and Allah said in Quran that muslems will be victor  at last. Iranian resist in front of all embargoes .Iran is an independent and powerful  country .do you know how many scientists and guiltless people terrorized  in this  last years by terrorists in Iran? many of them terrorized in mosques , busy places, in front of their family  in their car or door of their homes .do you know many of Iranians killed by Rigi(foul) in borders of Zahedan   and by mischief makings in borders of Iran ,turkya and  Iraq .most of this mischief makings come from Ashraf garrison(in Iraq) to Iran and terror Iranians special kurds because kurds live in borders of Iran .now this mischief makings live in camps in Iraq . terroristic group of Pezhak and P.K.K  are  in borders of iran and turkya and kill many of  kurds of iran .dear friend ,government of an Islamic country cant kill its nation because this government is belong to muslems and they never allow this work happen. Most of kurds are our friends .  muslems donít kill their friends and their religious  brothers .this is Haram and a big sin. army of Iran are children of its nation and there are kurds among them how they can kill their family? please, think

All of this tricks has made by  stranger countries, they  cant see calmness and safety in Iran and want to make war among tribes .

Iran is a friendly  country and wants to help to all countries but they disturb it .all of Iranians have freedom .all of them have their human rights in this land(heartland).we didnít see right of humans  in western countries or their  colorful markets.

Iran is special for its special nation .our dear country   was very vast in past but tricks of other countries caused that this historical country  became small .we learnt that only rely to Allah .for bad memories of interference of foreign  countries ,Iran never let to them that say one word about it .thanks Allah, condition of Iran is excellent and will be better in future if others let.

 




You know what, whitelion? These are the same arguments that Zionists use to defend their crimes. The problem with both excuses is that there are dead Kurdish and Palestinian children and destroyed homes that speak to the reality of what Israel and Iran are really doing in Palestine and Kurdistan.

PKK and Pezhak are no different from Hamas or Fatah. They all use terrorist tactics, which are wrong. However even greater terrorism is exercised by the occupiers, which are Tel Aviv and Tehran.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 9:40pm
dear friend,you ccant accept realities. i said all the facts to you but you prefer that dont attention to them.Iran is the best country but if you didnt like it, i respect to your mind. please,never come to Iran. Big%20smile every time that you want to speak about exellent counry and its nation be certain then speak ,you like only wrong information.

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i try to say only facts


Posted By: TG12345
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by whitelion553

dear friend,you ccant accept realities. i said all the facts to you but you prefer that dont attention to them.Iran is the best country but if you didnt like it, i respect to your mind. please,never come to Iran. Big%20smile every time that you want to speak about exellent counry and its nation be certain then speak ,you like only wrong information.


Dear friend,

Like a good zionist you defend your government's murder and occupation and oppression of a victimized people. You deny the killings of their children and destruction of their villages, and you claim that you treat them well. You finish by saying your country is the best in the world.

Iranian policy = Israeli policy

Different oppressors, different victims, same evil.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 8:09pm
i never sad from your words because i am certain to my self and i am certain to my choice. i selected it with open eyes and mind. i never like murder and war .i hate from killing in every where .i believe to Allah and way of Allah is right. i am shia and my dear imam is Ali(As) if you know him you will know that he was the best man after Mohammed (PBUH).shia hates from killing special his sisters and brothers. i never accept murder and crime . i believe that you must search then speak.be luck.

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i try to say only facts


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by whitelion553

shia hates from killing special his sisters and brothers.
Greetings whitelion,
 
By this do you mean all sisters and brothers, or only muslims, or only shias?  Because I see this as the fundamental problem that I have with Islam, and why I do not accept it as from my God.  My God wants us to consider all His creation as sisters and brothers... all those who believe in Him are His children.  Is this the same with allah?  Are we to love one another and embrace one another as sisters and brothers whether lost or found?  Jesus came to find the lost.
 
"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."
 
They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 
...came not to condemn, but to redeem...
 
It is a great sorrow to me when anyone is killed.  It does not matter who they are... what nation, what color, what faith... does not matter... no one more specially than another... all life is sacred... all life belongs to the Creator.
I have been weeping whenever I see starvation in Africa, and bombing in middle east.  All that unnecessary and sensless death.  I see this as only fulfilling the devils purpose which is to pit us against one another, to turn us away from loving and helping one another... to turn us away from Love which is the Creator.
 
Salaam,
Caringheart


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 3:17am

Greeting caringheart,

My mind is we hate from killing (killing of all humans).I and TG12345 spoke about Kurdish people. they are muslem .in Islam all of muslems are brothers and sisters .(in this discussion with TG12345) I wanted to say that muslems(Iranians ) cant kill their brothers and sisters(kurdish) . If you saw that a muslem kill a guiltless one, be certain that he is not muslem because he acted against of  orders of Islam. Islam says that be kind with together ,it is religion of friendship an peace no war and murder. There is not any different among humans ,all of them are equal and must live in the best way. They have right for enjoying from their life .we cant say to them that what must they do?

Because their life is a gift from Allah to them and they must only obey him and accept his orders .we are human like all humans and it is not our duty to force others for following  from our minds. We have freedom only for saying our minds and selecting the way is a personal issue. We must respect to all.

Your word "My God wants us to consider all His creation as sisters and brothers" is very nice and I accept it. If all of humans accept that be brother and sister ,we never see any evil and crime in this world. If they accept this ,we will see a world full of peace and happiness .all of believers to Allah know that Allah hates from killing. They know that they are responsible to their works and after death ,they must reply to Allah for their works(all of their works(little and big ))for this they must be caution about others(humans).we cant behavior badly from other religions .they are creatures of Allah like us.

All of prophets were believer to Allah ,and every one that believes to Allah ,is muslem.

We are human and donít like to see any murder .i donít know why other religions think that muslems are happy from seeing killing of other religions. For example ,we were sorry from killing guiltless students in America ,or from killing of Christians in Syria or Palestine and Ö

We arenít enemy with anyone .our religion and our last prophet s were messengers of peace and friendship. Isa and Musa are our prophets ,too. They were selected by Allah. We like them and believe that they were excellent humans. They are our dears .

Your mind " It is a great sorrow to me when anyone is killed. It does not matter who they are... what nation, what color, what faith... does not matter... no one more specially than another... all life is sacred... all life belongs to the Creator." is very great.

Jihad against tyrant is not  vain. Islam wants to spread justice in every where. All of humans are sad for starvation in Africa. This is duty of all nations that help to them .we cant be full and people of Africa see die of their babies for starvation. Every one must help them .we cant only watch them and be wait. Diverting of humans is duty of devil . sorry ,humans  assist him. we see that all of humanity rights is forgetting .people prefer their wants to every things. we see that an injured one wants help and ignore him .we  see die of humanity and are silent . why???what happened to us ?we think to money and Ö and donít see beauties of this world .we donít like to divide our wealth because we want more and more and we think that we are alive until end of this world.

We say that all of muslems are brothers and sisters .this means: we must act them like our real brothers and sisters ,we must like them and respect to each other .we must kind with them .we must help them and prefer their wants to our wants. We must be sad from their sadness and be happy from their happiness. We must behavior  them  like as we like that they  behavior  with us.

 Islam has very clear orders . if we cant understand its orders ,we must ask from big religious men(priests). They can answer to our questions ,clearly.

Muslems know that Isa (PBUH)will come and will help our last Imam(Mahdi (AS)). They will spread justice in this world. Allah forgives all people who are regretful from their works in past. This is the best gift for all humans.

salam



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i try to say only facts


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 January 2013 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by whitelion553

i donít know why other religions think that muslems are happy from seeing killing of other religions.
Greetings to you whitelion,

Not all muslims but certainly some.   It is because of those we see who are calling themselves muslim, living in Islam countries, celebrating and shooting off guns in the street when they see others, non-muslim, being killed.  Where else do you see people celebrating over death and killing... saying "God is great" when people are being killed? 

Originally posted by whitelion553

We say that all of muslems are brothers and sisters .

You see this is the point I am making. Why do you qualify by saying 'muslim'.  I view all as my brothers and sisters... whether they are muslims, Christians, Jews, hindu's, buddhists, even if they say they believe in nothing at all... we all were created by the Creator.  I believe in my scriptures where it says we are all born with a knowing of our Creator.  Some of my brothers and sisters serve God knowingly or unknowingly... same with those who serve the ruler of this world, satan, the devil, may do so knowingly or unknowingly... but they are still my brothers and sisters, created by the Creator, descended from Adam... the Creator surely does not wish to see any lost but to come to Him and be saved. We must treat each other with love that we might all become sisters and brothers in God.  Only satan wants us to divide oursleves so that we serve him and not the Creator.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 09 January 2013 at 5:19am

 

 Greeting Caringheart

When we say Allah is great .this means: be patient ,Allah has promised that help us in difficult conditions .muslems usually say this when a person die .they say this to his family and friends  for condolence .we say be patient  because  Allah is with patient people. We came from near of Allah and one day we must return to him again because our dears were  safekeeping near us and one day they must return near their real lord .but if your mind is why when  enemies of muslems like soldiers of Israel perish  in war ,muslems say Allah is great .this means :Allah has promised in Quran that help to muslems that be victor against aggressive armies and nations. And now ,we see this reality .Allah has promised that muslems will be victor at last and every one that fight against Allah ,will be penitent.

All words of Allah are right and we feel this from seeing success of muslems in many different aspects. For example success of Egypt muslems against their tyrant governor (Hosni ĖMobarak),success of Iran against Saddam armies ,victory of Gaza and Lebanon  against Zionist or revolutions  in Islamic countries against unfair rules that their governors do.  We never celebrate death of other religions people. we respect to all religions and like to share in their sadness.  We become sad when we see a flood in western countries or earth quack in there . we are sad from hearing die of Americans for hurricanes ,or killing of them in cinema ,school or university . we  are  sad from seeing poverty in India or Africa .we are sorry for terrible condition of people in western countries for economic problems .we are sad  for people of Hirushima and Nagazaki for killing of their dears  for atomic bombs  and Ö.

Allah has given mind to all humans  and revealed all from right way. Humans cant do every work and say: we didnít know. Humans have ability of selection and thinking .this is the most important different among humans and animals.

For example :we know that Isa born in Palestine and birth of him was a miracle (because he hadnít any father) .Isa (son of saint Mary(AS) )is one of our dear prophets .his being was very important in guidance  of humans. He believed existence of Allah and was a real believer.

Christians  say that they follow son of saint Mary(AS) but it is not true .because they donít believe to Allah .if they follow him ,they must obey from Allah no other one.

Musa (PBUH)and Isa (PBUH) emphasized that all of their friends must obey Allah.(only ALLAH)

Every one that obeys Allah is a muslem .because mean of Islam is surrender in front of Allah and his wants ,obeying from his orders .

Allah has said very clear in holy Quran that  he hasnít any child. Allah hasnít any father or mother .Allah is alone .every one that accept these words is a muslem .all of our prophets were muslem .and this is one reality that muslems are brothers and sisters.

This is very nice that Christians  like to be brother of other religions .this cause that you respect to their minds .we contemplate other religions like our brothers and sisters(for all of humans are from generation of Adam prophet (PBUH)) and respect to all religions ,too. But this friendship must be reciprocal .

Salam.



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i try to say only facts


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 January 2013 at 2:09pm
Greetings whitelion, and thank you for this discussion.
 
"they donít believe to Allah .if they follow him ,they must obey from Allah no other one. "

You say that Christians are wrong because they follow Jesus.  How can you say this? Do you not realize that muslims follow Muhammad?  In either case is there any difference in the desire to be serving God?

Can you not see the contradiction in saying that you have sorrow when you see kiling and death, and yet you have people calling God great for this killing?  Do you really think God is pleased to kill?  That he is pleased to see His creation killing one another?  I do not think so, and I do not think my God would want to be praised for such things.  This is not 'God being great'... this is 'people being evil'.

Any God fearing, God serving, person that I know, feels a great aversion and sorrow to killing.  If they do not feel this then their soul has been so badly poisoned that it no longer belongs to God.

(again, sorry for the bold... computer issues Unhappy)

Salaam,
Caringheart



Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 10 January 2013 at 5:28am

Greeting and your welcome ,caringheart

Be certain that punishing is very hard .specially  if we force to punish our dears. Allah loves all of his creatures (all of them).we must  be shaming for our past bad works. We arenít good creatures for Allah because we are ungrateful .but Allah has promised that forgives us ,if we be penitent and hopeful to future. If we know deal of his love to ourselves ,we must die for our ungrateful  works.

Allah hates from killing but he has said :defend from your beliefs ,family and lands against enemies(jihad) and donít fear because Allah is with you. We cant sit and watch that enemies do every work .jihad is duty of every muslem .Allah has said very clear orders to his prophets .

If every one do murder, sin ,cruelty andÖ ,Allah will  punish them .

I am certain that Allah doesnít want to see die of any one because Allah is very kind and lover. He loves all of his creatures .but Allah is righteous and doesnít like to see cruelty and injustice.

Isa(PBUH) is one of the best selected  men in this world .he wanted from his friends that follow Allah.

 our dear prophet (Mohammed (PBUH))wanted this from us ,too .we follow prophets because they guide us toward Allah. All of muslems  want peace .this was want of our prophets and Imams ,too. they wanted from other religions that accept this .All of prophets and imams hated from murder and killing. But they were very valiant defenders in jihad against tyrants.

Isa (PBUH)wasnít son of Allah , he was creature of Allah like us. but he was selected and one of the best humans. Isa (PBUH)and other prophets before him had said about last prophet (Mohammed(PBUH))and wanted from people that follow him .if Christians follow Isa (PBUH),they must believe to Mohammed (PBUH).but they preferred to ignore words of their prophet and changed wants of their prophet as like they wanted(prefer their wants to wants of their prophet) .  

Saint Mary  (daughter of Imran  (PBUH)) had hijab   .why Christians havenít hijab?

Mary (AS),Isa(AS), Yahia(son of Zakariia (PBUH)) were fast most of times and prayed for Allah and his pleasure .muslems fast and pray for Allah like their prophets ,too. But Christians donít follow this.

Christians must kneel  in front of Allah no in front of an idol (cross). They must follow Isa and Isa never kneeled for a symbol.

Who is other one? the man who has been killed instead of Isa(PBUH) .

We know that enemies of Isa(PBUH) couldnít kill him because Allah knew their guile and Isa (AS)was aware to it. But Christians believe to cross and respect to it.we know that enemies of Isa(PBUH) killed other one instead of him (he was very similar to Isa(AS)).we believe that it was a miracle ,too.

Christians think that died man was their  prophet(son of Mary(AS)). but this is wrong.  

If Christians follow Isa (AS)and his Allah ,they must accept words of Allah .all of the prophets knew that Islam is the best and complete religion and wanted to ready their friends for it (step by step).

salam



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i try to say only facts


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 10 January 2013 at 9:56am
Greetings whitelion,

This is where muslims are misguided. Nothing was ever foretold of Muhammad.

and those who followed Islam did not commit wars against tyrants, they committed conquest to extend their territories.

Muhammad did it because he wanted Mecca. I am still in doubt about his motives but he did remove idol worship from his people. But what he did end up doing was to show his followers that it was ok to use any means to gain the territory that they want and then to insitute their rule.

and saying that someone took the place of Jesus is another misguidance of Muhammad. I believe he did not have a clear understanding of the earlier scriptures, and did not give correct information to his people, giving his own belief instead. Why, is one of the biggest questions that I feel muslims need to answer. Why did he make his change? Muslims believe it is because allah... or to them, so they believe... the God of Abraham said it.

It is rather a moot point anyway because you first must answer the question; Why did the Jews want Jesus killed in the first place... Why was he sentenced to crucifixion through the Roman court? That is the one that matters.

Christian women used to cover their heads when in the presence of the Lord... that is, in church. The church, due to cultural changes, decided this was no longer necessary. I, and others as well, wish that the church had never made this change and succumbed to the culture.

Christians do fast but it is an individual thing.

I agree that muslims are correct in not fashioning any image of God... and not all Christians have these images in their places of worship. Mostly it is the Catholics because it comes out of the Roman art tradition... just like mosaics in the mosque comes out of the eastern art tradition. The Jehovah's witnesses I believe do not even take the image of the cross in their places of worship. (Perhaps Kish can confirm this for me) They have meeting halls only. Also, the Amish... they meet in homes, or have a meeting place which is unadorned. I don't think the Jews fashion any image of God either.

 

Christians do follow Jesus and His God.

Is His God your allah?

I know you are saying what you have been taught and so I respect all that you say, but I do challenge it. I only challenge the muslim scriptures, not the muslims themselves. I believe in many ways muslims follow the ways of God.

Peace and blessings to you,

Caringheart



Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 11 January 2013 at 12:50am

 

Greeting ,caring heart.

Hijab is necessary in every where not only in church .and fasting  include every one.

I think this is very excellent that every one has a special place for bless and praying .a place for calmness.  Mosaics in the mosques usually include verses of holy Quran and names of sacred people in Islam for design of mosques .mosque is  home  of Allah and it must be nice like Allah.

Enemies of Isa wanted to kill him because he was disagree with their works. He believed that they are diverted from right way and follow wrong way. For this they couldnít tolerate him .our prophets were mean of justice  ,this is very interesting that we want to form court for  their interpellation.

And about our dear prophet, he is the best man in this world and in paradise .he is better than all of other prophets .he is last prophet  for guidance of humans. All of creatures and angels are nothing  in front of him. Mohammed(PBUH)  has his wisdom from Allah .you cant find any one that be wise more than him. Muslams are awake and they never misguide because they have excellent guiders and valid book. They arenít alone because their prophet  put his dears near them (holy Quran and Ahle- beit(AS)).Our last imam is alive and guide us by his selected friends ,he will come and all of humans will know the realities. I hope that humans will  have time for  retrieve . Mohammed (PBUH)was aware from  guiles of enemies of Islam. All of the prophets said about coming of Mohammed(PBUH) to their friends because they were informed by Allah. All of them respected to him. He is from generation of Ibrahim prophet  (PBUH).God of Noh(AS) ,Ibrahim(AS), Musa(son of Imran) (AS),Isa(son of Mary)(AS)and Mohammed(AS) is Allah. Mohammed (PBUH) was the best because he was sign of Allah .he showed way of Allah .all of his works were right because Allah ordered them to him.

Dear caring heart ,we must respect to each other .you are certain to your way and I am certain to my way. Be luck.

 



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i try to say only facts



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