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A question about Jesus (pbuh)

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24446
Printed Date: 20 December 2014 at 6:39pm


Topic: A question about Jesus (pbuh)
Posted By: Nausheen
Subject: A question about Jesus (pbuh)
Date Posted: 09 December 2012 at 7:04pm
Dear Christians,

Is it in your beliefs that the first soul God created was that of Jesus (pbuh)?
Could you please give any references to this.

thank you.


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.



Replies:
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 December 2012 at 7:19pm
Greetings Nausheen,

It is in my understanding that the first man created by God, and that man having a soul, although it is not actually discussed this way, was Adam.
'God breathed life into him', and to me this means the flesh created by God was given a soul, and it is this that gives us this 'inner knowing' of the One who created us.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 1:03pm
Caringheart,
did you just dodge the question? Was Jesus the first one God created? Yes or no, and how you came to your answer?
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 4:20pm
Hasan,
Ask Nausheen if she feels that I answered her question or not.
Peace.


Posted By: Salaam_Erin
Date Posted: 11 December 2012 at 9:09am
Jesus, spiritually, was never created.  He eternally is generated by the Father, as the Father (God's nerve centre) has a Wisdom so powerful and an ability to project Himself being everywhere and totally able to concentrate Himself on any given point and not just the Throne of Heaven that this Wisdom is personified.  God is one, single, infinite disembodied mind, but has three poonts of consciousness.  The only part of Jesus which is created is His body, concieved by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb, wrapping God's Wisdom in flesh.  Jesus as a person was never created.  He has always existed.  


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 12:16am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Nausheen,It is in my understanding that the first man created by God, and that man having a soul, although it is not actually discussed this way, was Adam.'God breathed life into him', and to me this means the flesh created by God was given a soul, and it is this that gives us this 'inner knowing' of the One who created us.Salaam,Caringheart




Greetings Caringheart,

I understand that in your belief the first man into whom soul was breathed in was Adam(pbuh).
However, my question is : whose soul was the first to be created, Jesus (pbuh) or Adam (pbuh).

thank you.

-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 12:18am
Originally posted by Salaam_Erin

Jesus, spiritually, was never created.  He eternally is generated by the Father, as the Father (God's nerve centre) has a Wisdom so powerful and an ability to project Himself being everywhere and totally able to concentrate Himself on any given point and not just the Throne of Heaven that this Wisdom is personified.  God is one, single, infinite disembodied mind, but has three poonts of consciousness.  The only part of Jesus which is created is His body, concieved by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb, wrapping God's Wisdom in flesh.  Jesus as a person was never created.  He has always existed.  



Thank you Salaam Erin,

May I ask your denomination in Christianity.
I just want to know which christian sect carries this belief.



-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 December 2012 at 10:58am
Greetings Nausheen,

I guess I never gave thought to a soul being 'created'... only life that is created... flesh.  So I don't have an answer for that question. 
Soul is of a spiritual domain, and beyond my comprehension as a mere human, so I don't imagine I will have an answer until I meet my Maker.  Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart




Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 15 December 2012 at 3:40pm
So caringheart, you are saying that whether it was Jesus' soul or yours or my soul, you do not know if it is created or they always existed?
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 December 2012 at 4:24pm
Greetings Hasan,

Hoping you are well.

If I am to contemplate it I would have to say that Jesus, having the soul of God manifested in the flesh, is a soul which has always existed.  Regarding my own or anyone else's... who can say if our souls always existed with God and have been sent to earth in fleshly bodies... or did God create them for the fleshly bodies which He created?  I do not know.  What are your thoughts?
Does Islam have a teaching on this subject?

Blessings and peace to you,
CH


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Nausheen,I guess I never gave thought to a soul being 'created'... only life that is created... flesh.  So I don't have an answer for that question.  Soul is of a spiritual domain, and beyond my comprehension as a mere human, so I don't imagine I will have an answer until I meet my Maker.  [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />Salaam,Caringheart



oh no! I thought I had started a good topic [IMG]smileys/smiley18.gif" align="middle" />

Anyway, the reason I asked was that I had a chat with two of Jehova witnesses. They said that the first soul which God made (ie; created) was that of Jesus (pbuh).

So you see, even they believe in the creation of soul.

As for the muslim belief, everything other than God is created, and all that is created has a beginning and an end - however its an honor bestowed upon the human soul that it lives on, it does not have an end.

A very interesting book on this subject, as per islamic faith is 'Lives of Man'.
If you are interested, take a look.

Peace

-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 16 December 2012 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Nausheen,I guess I never gave thought to a soul being 'created'... only life that is created... flesh.  So I don't have an answer for that question.  Soul is of a spiritual domain, and beyond my comprehension as a mere human, so I don't imagine I will have an answer until I meet my Maker.  [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />Salaam,Caringheart



oh no! I thought I had started a good topic [IMG]smileys/smiley18.gif" align="middle" />

Anyway, the reason I asked was that I had a chat with two of Jehova witnesses. They said that the first soul which God made (ie; created) was that of Jesus (pbuh).

So you see, even they believe in the creation of soul.

As for the muslim belief, everything other than God is created, and all that is created has a beginning and an end - however its an honor bestowed upon the human soul that it lives on, it does not have an end.

A very interesting book on this subject, as per islamic faith is 'Lives of Man'.
If you are interested, take a look.

Peace


Greetings Nausheen,

It is a good topic.  It made me think about something I would not have otherwise. Smile

You see, I think all people are the same.  I think we all have slightly differing beliefs according to what we absorbed(which often depends on how well we are paying attention at the time a thing is being presented.  How many times as a child did you tune out when parents were speaking?  I think all children do. Tongue)  and what we were exposed to in our upbringing and further self education.  This is why I think it is so important to talk to one another and view every person as individual.  It is not possible for all people to have exactly identical thoughts.  It just so much depends on who absorbs what.

Thanks for sharing the muslim belief and the book suggestion.  I had no idea the Jehovah's Witnesses had the belief that you shared either.  Learn something new every day.  Big%20smile

Always good to hear from you.  You always make me smile.  Smile

Salaam,
CH


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Hasan,Hoping you are well.If I am to contemplate it I would have to say that Jesus, having the soul of God manifested in the flesh, is a soul which has always existed.  Regarding my own or anyone else's... who can say if our souls always existed with God and have been sent to earth in fleshly bodies... or did God create them for the fleshly bodies which He created?  I do not know.  What are your thoughts?Does Islam have a teaching on this subject?Blessings and peace to you,CH



Caringheart,
thanks for asking, all praise is to God.
Your response raises several questions, I will try to keep focus on some:
1- You mentioned that the soul was God's (in the body of a human).
Question 1.
Are you saying that God's soul was contained in a body, just like yours is in your body?

Question 2.
How many places God's soul can be contained? without limit or just those two according to your understanding?

Question 3.
How this spirit of God different than what you refer to as "Holy Ghost/Spirit, if both are spirit according to y'all.

Question 4.
When the body is talking, is it the soul that is talking and using the body to talk, or?

Hasan


-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Hasan,Hoping you are well.If I am to contemplate it I would have to say that Jesus, having the soul of God manifested in the flesh, is a soul which has always existed.  Regarding my own or anyone else's... who can say if our souls always existed with God and have been sent to earth in fleshly bodies... or did God create them for the fleshly bodies which He created?  I do not know.  What are your thoughts?Does Islam have a teaching on this subject?Blessings and peace to you,CH

Caringheart,
thanks for asking, all praise is to God.
Your response raises several questions, I will try to keep focus on some:
1- You mentioned that the soul was God's (in the body of a human).
Question 1.
Are you saying that God's soul was contained in a body, just like yours is in your body?

Question 2.
How many places God's soul can be contained? without limit or just those two according to your understanding?

Question 3.
How this spirit of God different than what you refer to as "Holy Ghost/Spirit, if both are spirit according to y'all.

Question 4.
When the body is talking, is it the soul that is talking and using the body to talk, or?

Hasan


Greetings Hasan,

All good questions.  Ones I have never really pondered but here are my thoughts as I ponder them now.

My first thoughts:
#1.  I think God can be everywhere, and anywhere He wants to be.
#2.  I don't think the soul is contained.
#3.  I don't think it is.
#4.  Yes, sometimes.  If we know how to be in communion with God.  If we tap into the Holy Spirit.  Most often when I speak I seek the Spirit first and it is this which guides my words.  I think I have said before... I have no ability to memorize but the Spirit speaks Gods words to me... the ones which we find contained in the scriptures... they just come to me.

and as I elaborated my thoughts on these things:
 I guess I think of God as energy, a force... the 'light that lights the world'... the light that burst upon the darkness and filled the void.  When we read of the experiences of Moses with God, this is the image I get... God as an energy... are you familiar with what all the scriptures say regarding the encounters of God with Moses?
 Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
The Lord replied, “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”
-- How does the Lord's presence go with Moses(with any of us), unless He is energy itself?
As Moses went into the tent, the pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the entrance, while the Lord spoke with Moses. (Exodus 33)
-- as the Lord 'spoke' with Moses, was He[God] enclosed in the pillar of cloud to protect Moses?
God's first appearance to Moses was in 'a bush that glowed with fire but did not burn'.  Is this not energy itself?
29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the Lord. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, his face was radiant, and they were afraid to come near him.
and wasn't the same said of Jesus, that His face was 'bright like the sun', after He spoke with God?  I think of this like when a persons face is flushed from sun or heat... i.e., some force of energy.

When we are told that God is everywhere, this is how these scriptures can make sense to me.  The reason God can send His Holy Spirit to whom He wills, I believe, is because this is a cosmic energy... something we have yet to understand... but if we are seeking it[seeking His face, seeking God, seeking understanding], we will understand, understanding is revealed.
All life is energy in one form or another.  I believe when we die that energy... or that soul... moves on to another place, or plane.  Heaven and hell?  "In my house are many mansions"(the words of Jesus).  Do we really know what the soul is or where our energy goes?

I do think we have the ability to travel outside our bodies... outside the natural realm... for our spirits to journey to meet with God during meditative times, when we are in communion with Him.  When we are 'seeking His face'.  Is this not what Muhammad claims to have done?


But you did not answer my question.
What are your thoughts?
Nausheen shared with me the teaching in Islam as she knows it.  Is your understanding the same?

Peace and blessings,
CH



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