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WHAT A FARCICAL CALL!.

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24392
Printed Date: 30 July 2014 at 10:40am


Topic: WHAT A FARCICAL CALL!.
Posted By: Friendship
Subject: WHAT A FARCICAL CALL!.
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 7:43am
Assalamu alaikum.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3469/saudi-center-vienna
.

Why is the West allowing itself to be deceived by those Muslim authorities who do not understand the teachings of Muhammad necessary for making the world a place to live without body guards and electronic surveillance gadget in houses and on the streets?
Why should Ban-Ki-Moon attend such call?
If the West is looking for the actual meaning of the teaching of Muhammad Rasulullah and its practical application, it is available only in Books written in the 5th and 6th century of the hijra. No one is preventing the West to learn Arabic and read such books to challenge the falsehood explained to them. Islam belongs to all. It must be read by all. All hands must be on the deck to implement it.
The internal division of the Muslim Umma makes any peaceful move by the West to make the world a peaceful place an impossibility. The G-d of Muhammad is not different from the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and all the prophets who came after them. Muhammad cannot therefore an extraordinary prophet with a different Message. What is revealed in the Torah is enough to make the world safe! That was what the Madinan tribes and the Levi clan used to invite Muhammad to Madina to settle their differences. His success cannot be denied and ignored. 

Friendship.





Replies:
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 10:08pm
Wa Alaika Assalam wa Ramat Allahi wa Barkatuhu,
 
Could not open the webpage through the link given in your post. Would you please double check the URL. Jazak Allahu khair.
 
Your writings are either very vague on the subject you want to discuss, or my IQ is too poor to comprehend them.
 
Thru this post however I understand that you are trying to say; 'authentic knowledge is to be acquired from the islamic literature written and published during 5th and 6th centuary AH.'  
- These books are primarily in arabic, thus you are inviting the muslims in the west to learn arabic.
 
If my understanding is correct, then it is indeed a very genuine call. Thank you for the same.
 
The good news is that there are several sincere efforts to teach and learn arabic. Are you aware of these?
I know of the ground institutes and online institutes based in Jordan.
The people I have been learning from are very fluent in English (mostly have English background or their first language as English) and their mastery of the Arabic Nahw, Balaghah, Sarf etc is commendable.
 
Although such people are few, and the fraction of muslim population in their tutelage is also small, I think itis still a good sign.
 
Another thing I wanted to point out is some of the translations of old texts are quite reliable. Have you seen books from Al-Baz Publishings? These are mostly translated by Mukhtar Holland and he is very reliable.
 
http://www.al-baz.com/translator.shtml - http://www.al-baz.com/translator.shtml
 
  http://seekersguidance.org/blog/2010/11/muhtar-holland-dies-sad-news-on-the-passing-of-a-great-translator-masudblog/ - http://seekersguidance.org/blog/2010/11/muhtar-holland-dies-sad-news-on-the-passing-of-a-great-translator-masudblog/
 
On a side note, what you said about the torah, though I understand after getting used to your style, would rather, if you would have explained the implications a bit further.
 
By reading what you have said, one might (mis)understand that we as muslims should leave the Quran and take on the scholarship of torah in order to bring peace on earth.  Others might argue although its true the jews would invite rasul sallallahu alaihe wasallam to judge their matter according to the torah and this was how he was instructed by Allah, it is not a book for us to follow and master.
 
I dont know what message you want to give to the muslims regarding the torah.
 
 


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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 3:42am
The link does work like this

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3469/saudi-center-vienna - http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3469/saudi-center-vienna

Friendship, you asked why the West does allow this? Because many Western people embrace blind multiculturalism. Every culture different from our own is to be treated with respect no matter how cruel. Of course Saudi clerics hide the details of their "culture" in which women are treated like cattle, churches cannot be built and atheists are to be killed. The Saudi version of Islam is basically theocratic fascism with Muslim males being the master race. Only Austrian Muslims seem to recognize the danger from Saudi Arabia. But then there's all this money. The Saudis give Austrian Muslims a lot of money and so they keep quiet about the true Saudi motives.



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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 01 December 2012 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Friendship

The G-d of Muhammad is not different from the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and all the prophets who came after them. Muhammad cannot therefore an extraordinary prophet with a different Message.

I inclined to do so because the Qur'an says so, but what is in the Bible itself many times confuse my belief. He re is one:

"Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant." They said, "Do as you have said."

"So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes." And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it. So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate." (Genesis 18:1-8)

I read one explanation in the net they were referred as
Jehovah.
So what we must to do here?




Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 01 December 2012 at 11:00pm
Assalamu alaikum Nothing.

Good Nothing. Only if the matured responsible, intelligent members of this forum with the sincere tender heart of confession will adopt another strategy of wanting to learn and then reject or accept, we will be better off.
If you compare Genesis 18:1-15, the version the G-d of Abraham told Muhammad Rasulullah is in the holy Qur'an 11:69-74. Read the commentary of Reverend Matthew Henry also.
This shows the st**idity and foolishness of those saying that Muhammad copied from Torah or any book revealed by Allah before him.
Let us make our intentions and efforts to making the world a better place and not a place of unnecessary polemics and deceptions.
As a Muslim, I know that Muslims have deviated from the teaching of Muhammad. They cannot on their own change their beliefs without support from those who want the world to be a peaceful repose for all. There is no merit when one is invited to the truth he refuses to listen and reason. Contemporary and secular world does not mean that one should not have a caliph, pray in the manner the holy apostle prayed, cover those parts of the body to be covered by the Shari'a of Moses and Muhammad. Contemporary and secular world certainly demands the correct interpretation of the Qur'an. Since there cannot have a new sun and moon and germination cannot take place without water and sunlight, we must be careful in opposing the G-d of Abraham. This is what is common to all. Talking on hijab is irrelevant and out of our need to make the world a peaceful place.

Friendship. 



Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 2:38am
Friendship, maybe 'borrowed' is a better word. Muhammad borrowed from Jewish and Christian traditions and myths. A good example is Noah's flood. Jewish traditions and myths borrowed from Mesopotamian traditions and myths. Religions and cultures never start from scratch.

There is no single correct interpretation of the Qur'an made by humans. Only God knows the ultimate truth. Humans don't. We can never be sure about a correct interpretation. We can only pursue the truth without ever being sure when we reach it.




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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 8:16am
Assalamu alaikum. Matt.


The question and the answer that no one will ever give is: consider this among the multiple challenges in the Qur'an:
1. The Jews in Madina asked Muhammad to tell them the story of Jacob and his children if he is indeed a prophet sent by their G-d. What do you expect Muhammad to tell them? Did the Quraysh his relations know anything about that story? Who knew that story in Makka? Muhammad told them the story Qur'an:12. What are you going to say about that? Compare the revelation with what is in Gen 37-49. Whatever you claim, we have accepted it. Yes Muhammad was tutored by the Jews. yet they obeyed him and he brought them salvation. Pleas let us be civilized. Unless you are Jew, you should not comment on what you do not know and believe. There are other revelations on the Jews.
2. I was taught the history of Vikins and Barbarians (they lived in Germany?) It was read to me from a book written by some one. Can you tell us the author from whom Muhammad  borrowed that book and read it to the Jews in Madina?
3. Muhammad confronted the Jews (including you today) in the Qur'an 28:49, "The bring a Book from Allah (G-d) which is a better guide that the Torah and the Qur'an, that I may follow it, if you are truthful.
Muhammad deserves respect from you for you have at your disposal what he taught. It is very unfair and primitive for the so called self styled civilized and advanced world  proud of its development fail to understand the teaching of Muhammad that is necessary for what they are looking for but have so failed to achieve. The first and foremost step to secularization assimilation, integration is for the West to accept that the true teaching of Muhammad has been distorted and that the way his followers are claiming as his way is false.
When and if that way is explained, the West and their 'isms' and 'ist' should be the foremost to support those striving (Jihad) hard to bring a sense of belonging equality, love(the Arabs) to all and sundry. Muhammad cannot be sent to mankind by the time a certain section of humanity is prevented from knowing him directly and to turn a deaf ear to that which the day and night can never deny.
I will repeat here again: As evident from the tiny number of Muslims in this forum, their illiteracy level on the actual purpose of sending Muhammad is high.   Are the 'isms' 'ists' and those who have names rejected by Professor Alfred Cantwell smith in a position to bring the positive change desired by mankind today? This is what should be addressed.
Interpretation of the Qur'an was to some extent never done by Muhammad. Muhammad only interpreted those verses of Qur'an essential for uplifting humanity and making the world a safe and comfortable repose. The truth is with us: We have no peace in the world and all our wisdom and economic prowess has failed to stabilize our economy!

Friendship.

 


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 3:44am
Germany as a country came into being in 1871 CE. I'm not sure, Friendship, what you mean by the book about Vikings that Muhammad read from.

I respect Muhammad as the most beloved human being of Muslims, but this doesn't mean that I agree with everything he said and did. I respect the Qur'an as the central holy book of the second-largest world religion, but this doesn't mean I agree with every interpretation of it, especially when the historical context is ignored.

It's very difficult to determine what you call the "true teachings" of Muhammad almost 1400 years after his death and we will only have peace when differing spiritual truths can co-exist without resorting to violence. Your spiritual truth seems to differ somewhat from mainstream Sunni Islam. I don't think that's a problem. There is also Shia Islam. There is Alevi Islam and so forth. Maybe you are a follower of Rasulullah Islam. That's fine. Christianity has more than 30.000 denominations. I think that's wonderful when they co-exist peacefully. And today they do. Muslims have to learn to accept religious pluralism. You should explain Rasulullah Islam to everybody who's interested in understanding it, but then let people make their choice. Don't expect everybody to believe what you believe. I don't. I'm a German Protestant Christian. Others are not. That's fine with me.

There is no such thing as a single spiritual truth. We can't know for sure anyway. Only God knows as stated in the Qur'an.




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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 7:49am
Assalamu alaika Matt Browne.


I am remembering my early 60's lessons about the history of Europe- Vikins, Vandals and Barbarians. I think the Vandals were from Germany. I said: I read that from a book and I think the teacher was Mr. Jones. If whatever one claims about Muhammad borrowing what is in the Qur'an we want know the name of that tutor and the reference with the time, year, date and place.
It should be understood that Muhammad was a servant of Allah and Gabriel confirmed to him that he does not come with a message to him but with the Command of Allah. Secondly, the witness of the message were challenged to produce a verse (meter, prose, stitch and semi-stitch) of its kind. So far the Arabs could not do that. I think it is unfair to accuse Muhammad of anything regarding the Qur'an in the manner it is unfair for any Muslim to accuse me of telling him to wash his hands before eating, to get married, to be kind to his wife, never to tell lies and deceive etc. I think this forum should better accuse God/Allah than Muhammad. The components of Airbus A380 manufactured  is Germany cannot be claimed to be from France or so. You claim Germany to be the most advanced country in Europe. Some Euro members are accusing Germany of their woes. Let us stop at that on the relationship between Allah the creator of the Universe and Muhammad Rasulullah. Do you know that Muhammad could have been a disbeliever if he refused to obey Allah? So why accuse him of obedience? I do not accuse you of being a Christian for without you, I will never understand Muhammad's teaching. So you mjust be a Christian.
Muhammad's life was built on pluralism both at Madina and Makka. He respected and gave all equal rights, but maintained that as a leader anyone taking arms against one another must be sanctioned by him. Madina must be protected by all its inhabitants and all must contribute to that.  Injustice is common to all and no criminal should be protected. Now imagine this! He never forced anyone to do what he cannot do. He made agreement the yardstick of his teaching.
What I am trying to invite mankind as a follower of Muhammad is that which is common to all, to our exclusion. I am not calling to make the 30,000 denominations less then that nor I am expected to say anything about Protestants. Ideally, no follower of Muhammad is expected to say something on Christianity except the negation of Allah that Jesus cannot be his son. We have been wasting time and energy on this forum discussing on Christianity. This is because you Christians like it and have no code of conduct on what to do if you are asked about something explained by Allah. As, I said, I like the Jews because they control their mouth. I could very well remember over dinner a Jew asking a Reverend Mother to keep quiet and that she has nothing to contribute on our discussions.
If you Christians have anything against the followers of Muhammad, it is because you associate with those who do not know about him claiming to know and believe in him. Birds of the same feathers of course!
Regarding the peaceful co-existence of the Christians, history has proved to be not so. In the early days of this forum, a Scottish told me that in the 17th C. the protestants migrated to USA and their failure to establish anything on humanity made Christianity silent. I will repeat again at your disbelief- the only difference between what Jesus son of Maryam taught and what Muhammad  was told by Allah is the question of sons-ship. So, a true believer will always ask all to contribute in making the world a sound place for all to live. This excludes making Christianity to become one denomination but necessities the abolishing of Shi'ism, Sunnism, Wahhabism etc to living under only one name_ Islam.
Note that what is common to his followers was never forced on them.
He never forced it on all his followers to pray at the same time with him, but that they should pray within the stipulated time of that prayer.
We must distinguish between worshiping using limbs and worshiping outside that.

Friendship.




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