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Essence in seeking correct knowledge

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24386
Printed Date: 25 July 2014 at 6:06pm


Topic: Essence in seeking correct knowledge
Posted By: Friendship
Subject: Essence in seeking correct knowledge
Date Posted: 26 November 2012 at 9:52am
Assalmu alaikum.



http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/11/21/holy-miscalculations-the-entire-christian-calendar-is-based-on-a-sixth-century-monks-mistake-pope-says/
.

Islamic education does not allow one to be blind follower and to follow mistakes on producing sound proof. It is not surprising that friendship has noticed that Arafat is observed on a day not observed by Muhammad Rasulullah.
Are the Christians going to disagree with Pope Benedict xvi? How is Allah going to judge them on the acts of worship done not according to the Shari'a of Jesus son of Maryam?
How is Allah going to judge those 3 million pilgrims who not only observed Arafat outside the true date, but do not even know how to pray?
Is then Qur'an 2:159 relevant today?

Friendship.




Replies:
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalmu alaikum.



http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/11/21/holy-miscalculations-the-entire-christian-calendar-is-based-on-a-sixth-century-monks-mistake-pope-says/
.

Islamic education does not allow one to be blind follower and to follow mistakes on producing sound proof. It is not surprising that friendship has noticed that Arafat is observed on a day not observed by Muhammad Rasulullah.
Are the Christians going to disagree with Pope Benedict xvi? How is Allah going to judge them on the acts of worship done not according to the Shari'a of Jesus son of Maryam?
How is Allah going to judge those 3 million pilgrims who not only observed Arafat outside the true date, but do not even know how to pray?
Is then Qur'an 2:159 relevant today?

Friendship.

 
As far as I can see the only person who has not sought the correct knowlege is YOU!
 
Why don't you just go away?


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 6:22am
A lot of Christians disagree with Pope Benedikt, not only Protestants, but also Catholics. Yet the Pope actually invites people who disagree with him, e.g. Hans Kueng. So even the very conservative Pope doesn't tell persons who do not support the Pope's view to go away. I think this is one of the main differences between Christianity and Islam. In mainstream Islam debate is not welcome. Muslims are expected to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I wonder why this is so.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 6:32am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

A lot of Christians disagree with Pope Benedikt, not only Protestants, but also Catholics. Yet the Pope actually invites people who disagree with him, e.g. Hans Kueng. So even the very conservative Pope doesn't tell persons who do not support the Pope's view to go away. I think this is one of the main differences between Christianity and Islam. In mainstream Islam debate is not welcome. Muslims are expected to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I wonder why this is so.

 
The reason is very simple. Unlike Christianity, Islam is perfection and therefore does not need any debate or discussion within it. For one thing, Christians need to sort Christianity out and get rid of the confusion that is so apparent. In Islam, on the other hand, there is absolutely no confusion.
 
Those who bring debate and discussion within Islam are confused people who do not understand the deen therefore they want to innovate. The Prophet (Salallhu Alayhi Wa Sallam ) prophecied this.


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 7:09am
Assalamu alaikum.

Your statement: In mainstream Islam debate is not welcome. Muslims are expected to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I wonder why this is so.

Response: Sorry Mr. Matt Browne. It is not that debate is not allowed, but rather there are basics that must be understood by all. Debate on the basic fundamental issues is not allowed. This is not saying that in a classroom such questions should not arise. In my University days, those who ask silly questions are marked and often fail their examinations. Islam is supposed to be taught in tutorial sessions. But look at what is going on here from people like Abu Loren etc. Look at Hausheen addressing me as disbeliever and then turning to ask me if I am a follower of Maudidi! This is outrageous! She was saying that I am disbeliever! If asked her to prove so during a prayer I performed, she has no evidence. But look at me saying that I have read in a book that Arafat day is not on the 9th of Zulhajj. If the Muslims have not been observing it on that day, I would not have voiced that out. Nobody has produced evidence against my observation.
No one is to be a silent spectator on seeing evil and wrong spreading on the earth. It is the failure of the Muslims to arrest this situation that is the main stem of our problem.
Allah challenged mankind in many places in the Qur'an to produce their evidence against what Muhammad said. If the Quraysh challenged to produce the like of the Qur'an failed, it is better we respect the Qur'an.
My call to you and your people is to understand that you are misguided and that the true teaching of Muhammad is still available in books unread by the majority of the followers of Muhammad.
Let us stick to the subject matter: Are the Christians going to disagree with the research of Pope Benedict?

Friendship.



Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 28 November 2012 at 6:21am
Originally posted by Friendship


Look at Hausheen addressing me as disbeliever and then turning to ask me if I am a follower of Maudidi! This is outrageous! She was saying that I am disbeliever! If asked her to prove so during a prayer I performed, she has no evidence.


Assalamualaika Friendship,

You have been suggesting muslims to follow every other book before the quran and fail to explain why.
You told me to learn adab from the jewish women, and to read the torah before focusing on the Quran.
In another instance you said the hadith is more important than the quran.
In yet another post your comment is that torah is enough to render the world safe.
If you are asked for evidence for saying so, what would you say?

you find my comment about following Maudidi as outrageous, but it is you who quoted him. One does not quote people who he does not regard as authentic.
If you do regard his teachings good enough to be quoted here, why is it outrageous if I asked you about it?


Originally posted by Friendship

But look at me saying that I have read in a book that Arafat day is not on the 9th of Zulhajj. If the Muslims have not been observing it on that day, I would not have voiced that out. Nobody has produced evidence against my observation.No one is to be a silent spectator on seeing evil and wrong spreading on the earth.




Have not read any evidence coming from you about arafat not being on the 9th. Nor has there been another date for the event with appropriate evidencs. Please note, reference to a book available on amazon dot com is not an evidence.



-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 2:22am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

A lot of Christians disagree with Pope Benedikt, not only Protestants, but also Catholics. Yet the Pope actually invites people who disagree with him, e.g. Hans Kueng. So even the very conservative Pope doesn't tell persons who do not support the Pope's view to go away. I think this is one of the main differences between Christianity and Islam. In mainstream Islam debate is not welcome. Muslims are expected to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I wonder why this is so.


Originally posted by Abu Loren


The reason is very simple. Unlike Christianity, Islam is perfection and therefore does not need any debate or discussion within it. For one thing, Christians need to sort Christianity out and get rid of the confusion that is so apparent. In Islam, on the other hand, there is absolutely no confusion.
 
Those who bring debate and discussion within Islam are confused people who do not understand the deen therefore they want to innovate. The Prophet (Salallhu Alayhi Wa Sallam ) prophecied this.


I beg to differ, Abu Loren. In my view Islam requires a tremendous amount of debate and millions of Muslims who care about Islam agree with my view, but most of them wish to remain anonymous, because they fear the wrath of their families. Risking the disapproval of their families ranks among the biggest fear of Muslims. In too many Muslim households today, parents demand robotic respect. Debates are not welcome. But the children of the 21st century realize the problem with this approach. These millions of brave young Muslims embrace open societies and seek to change the world, but they fear being ostracized by the mainstream Muslim community.

The view of Islam being perfection reflects 7th-century Arab tribal structure in which dissent is seen as treason. People who act on their moral courage (like Friendship) will always encounter disapproval. To have moral courage means to challenge conformity. Muslims aren't the only ones who enforce the illusion of purity and perfection. Hardcore evangelical Christians in the US are similar in this respect, although they don't use threats of violence.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 2:33am
Originally posted by Matt Browne


I beg to differ, Abu Loren. In my view Islam requires a tremendous amount of debate and millions of Muslims who care about Islam agree with my view, but most of them wish to remain anonymous, because they fear the wrath of their families. Risking the disapproval of their families ranks among the biggest fear of Muslims. In too many Muslim households today, parents demand robotic respect. Debates are not welcome. But the children of the 21st century realize the problem with this approach. These millions of brave young Muslims embrace open societies and seek to change the world, but they fear being ostracized by the mainstream Muslim community.

The view of Islam being perfection reflects 7th-century Arab tribal structure in which dissent is seen as treason. People who act on their moral courage (like Friendship) will always encounter disapproval. To have moral courage means to challenge conformity. Muslims aren't the only ones who enforce the illusion of purity and perfection. Hardcore evangelical Christians in the US are similar in this respect, although they don't use threats of violence.

 
First of all name these millions of muslims who agree with your view. Secondly, those who are seeking this change, do they by any chance live in the West? If they are then I would say that they want a lifestyle that closely resembles the kufr and they want to innovate by making what is halal haram and what is haram halal.
 
What in your Nazi filled brain is the problem with Islam?


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 2:38am
Friendship, around 1978 when I was 16 years old I heard about the calendar issue the first time, because most historians had gathered enough evidence to determine that Jesus was born several years before year 1. Only very few Christians I knew were upset about it and for good reason. There is far less hard data about Jesus compared to Muhammad. As I child I learned that Jesus was born in the year 7 BCE. We also talked about the missing leap year until the Gregorian calendar was introduced in 1582 CE replacing the Julian calendar. People in 1582 missed all days from the 5th to 14th October, as 15 October 1582 was immediately following Julian Thursday, 4 October 1582.

So, are the Christians going to disagree with the research of Pope Benedict?

No, but many will complain why it took the Pope so long. This is old research. The Vatican is a very slow organization. As one reader put it: "The Church has long recognized the miscalculation, but exactly how many years since the birth of Christ doesn't really matter it's a convenient numbering system, not a doctrine." I agree.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 1:17pm
Assaalamu alikum Naushee.

You said: You have been suggesting muslims to follow every other book before the quran and fail to explain why.
Response:
For the first 13 years in Makka what was the revelation about? Was there a revelation before Muhammad where one is allowed to worship one other than Allah? Was there a lesson from that community the punishment on the one who worships one other than Allah? That example is also in the revelation of Muhammad. Muslims today have forgotten that dialogue between Muhammad and the Abdullah ibn Saba the Jew before he turned to Muhammad. Was weight and measure not first revealed to Shuaib. Please understand what it is to be a follower of Muhammad and the difference between Iman and the Sunna of Muhammad. Previous revelation tells about Iman. Even the Torah never mentioned how Moses prayed. So, I am not saying that you follow the Sunna of the previous prophets. Read about the battle of Ai and compare it with that of the battle of Uhud.
You said: You told me to learn adab from the jewish women, and to read the torah before focusing on the Quran.
Response: So you do not know the story of the wife of Moses? The Torah is not  adulterated as the Injeel and I find much of it in the Qur'an. You read the commentary of A.Y. Ali. What was his style? Probably you do not read the commentary of Reverend Matthew Henry on the whole  Bible. 
You said: In another instance you said the hadith is more important than the quran.
Response: If the hadith is not so, then why must we abide by the explanation and  actions of the holy apostle? Do you not know the verses explaining that?
You said: In yet another post your comment is that torah is enough to render the world safe.
Response: Yes. What is the position of 1 Kings 12:22?

You said: you find my comment about following Maudidi as outrageous, but it is you who quoted him. One does not quote people who he does not regard as authentic.
Response: But you asked if I am his follower. Is one supposed to follow someone other than Muhammad? Please read carefully Qur'an. You have fallen into the trap of translating Qur'an according to Greek and Latin.  I quoted him because most Muslims do not believe in what one says without quoting someone. This is against the Sunna. Yes, I like Maududis commentary because it is the best book in English language. It agrees with Arabic commentaries. I did not quote commentators in Arabic for example Zamakhshari, Shankiti, Shatibi, Shawkani.
You said: Have not read any evidence coming from you about arafat not being on the 9th. Nor has there been another date for the event with appropriate evidencs. Please note, reference to a book available on amazon dot com is not an evidence.
Response:
What do you mean? If you are given a reference in Amazon, are you not suppose to buy the book? If you want to be convinced then buy the book and read on the Sunna of the holy apostle. I have not come across a book written in English outlining the Sunna of Muhammad in prayers better than in that book. You never loose if you buy a book written based on research.

Friendship.





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