Print Page | Close Window

our duty

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24335
Printed Date: 24 October 2014 at 8:56pm


Topic: our duty
Posted By: whitelion553
Subject: our duty
Date Posted: 19 November 2012 at 12:04pm
'Our religious and humanitarian duties oblige us to try to prevent the further massacre of defenseless Palestinians and restoring tranquility and sustainable security in the region and throughout the entire Palestinian territories.' 
'It is necessary that all-out efforts should be made for putting an end to killing and massacre of women, children and the oppressed people of Gaza and Palestine.'



-------------
i try to say only facts



Replies:
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:07pm
I totally agree. But neither the hardline Israeli government nor the Hamas radicals have a vision for a better future. We need both short-term humanitarian aid and a better long-term strategy for enduring peace. I support Michael Lerner's approach.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 12:16pm
Matt,
who is Abdel Samad?
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 5:04am
Hamed Abdel-Samad, born in 1972 in Gizeh, Egypt, is a German-Egyptian political scientist, historian and author. He often appears on television. Abdel-Samad participated in the German Islam Conference held at the invitation of the German Federal Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière. Right now he frequently travels to Cairo and helps with the setup of democratic political parties. He used to be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, but left, when he realized the organization was trying to teach him to hate non-Muslims. He was able to memorize the entire Qur'an and recite it from heart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamed_Abdel-Samad - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamed_Abdel-Samad




-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 01 December 2012 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by whitelion553

'Our religious and humanitarian duties oblige us to try to prevent the further massacre of defenseless Palestinians and restoring tranquility and sustainable security in the region and throughout the entire Palestinian territories.' 
'It is necessary that all-out efforts should be made for putting an end to killing and massacre of women, children and the oppressed people of Gaza and Palestine.'


To make this noble wish works - what is the best ways to achieve it? Have you ever laid it out what we must to do and starting from where?
The party that support the suffocating of the Palestinians is the American themselves with 4500 nukes and 11 aircraft carriers. Don't bother the UN, it is as good as  irrelevant in any discussion, they been made worthless with just one veto.

The Iranian government and people is in the front runner in defending the Palestinian and see how the US suffocating it. It is the same one that does it.


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 2:41am
Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne

Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.

Oh I must have missed it, what happened, what the Palestinian have done to them?


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 03 December 2012 at 10:57am
I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 03 December 2012 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan
 

"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there."    Malcolm X



Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:47am
Originally posted by nothing

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.

Oh I must have missed it, what happened, what the Palestinian have done to them?


I find it very strange that you have missed this and do not know about Israelis being the victims of rocket attacks and suicide bombers.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:57am
Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan


Exactly, Hasan. Resisting this is perfectly normal. But keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have built houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.

I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis, and were against their agenda, lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refugees and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.

What is your vision of a better future in the Middle East, Hasan? I guess you don't have one.

Very few Muslims have the creativity to come up with proposals that take into account the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. It's so much easier to simply hate the Jews and not give a damn about them. If they all drown in the sea, so what. Problem solved. This is not how people like myself, who care about all our fellow human beings, think.




-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 3:13am
Originally posted by abuayisha

"If you stick a knife in my back nine inches and pull it out six inches, there's no progress. If you pull it all the way out that's not progress. Progress is healing the wound that the blow made. And they haven't even pulled the knife out much less heal the wound. They won't even admit the knife is there."    Malcolm X



Who represents the knife here? In my view there are multiple knives and bodies involved here. As long as Israelis are not seen as human beings who are also victims, we won't see any progress. It seems, Abuayisha, that you don't have a vision for a better future either.



-------------
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Matt Browne







Originally posted by honeto

I guess gave them chance to steal their homeland?
So, let me get this straight Matt, if someone comes and occupy your home and limits YOU the owner to the garage and the shed part of the house on the opposite ends and occupies the main house, you the owner cannot be bad with them, if you are Matt is going to call you bad. So do not resist if someone tries to occupy your home by force according to our Matt.
Hasan
Exactly, Hasan. Resisting this is perfectly normal. But keep in mind that the majority of Israelis were born after 1948 and have built houses and are now being threatened to leave their houses and be driven into the sea to drown.I agree that the world community could have handled the matter in a better way back in 1948. But we cannot undo the past. Millions of Germans who have not voted for the Nazis, and were against their agenda, lost their homes in Eastern Europe. Their West German brothers and sisters invited all the millions of refugees and shared their homes. Should the children of these refuges now ask Poles and Romanians and all the others to leave Poland and Romania so that the Germans can go back? The Arab brothers and sisters did not invite the Palestinian refugees and they didn't share their homes. They still don't to this day. All they do is asking for Israelis to be killed so that Palestinians can go back to what used to be Palestine. That's a pseudovision for the future. That's a recipe for doom.What is your vision of a better future in the Middle East, Hasan? I guess you don't have one.Very few Muslims have the creativity to come up with proposals that take into account the interests of both Israelis and Palestinians. It's so much easier to simply hate the Jews and not give a damn about them. If they all drown in the sea, so what. Problem solved. This is not how people like myself, who care about all our fellow human beings, think.






Matt,
so if a child is born in a prison, that prison belongs to him/her? That's an interesting logic and belief you present!

According to international laws of the civilized world, building on illegally taken land is just that, illegal. Such settlement has been declared as illegal since they were first built. Just like today the recently announced Israeli plan to build another 300 homes in the occupied territories is illegal but they are breaking the international law anyway and as always, as if they are above the law, they have been doing this since 1948.
It is a shame that Israel is being let go with probably the longest list of crimes against humanity and non-compliance to international laws under the protection of the West, the US government in particular.
It is a shame that some people like you think that it's OK.
Hasan


-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne



Originally posted by nothing


Originally posted by Matt Browne

Nothing, you forgot to mention the misery Israeli people have to endure. Seeing the Palestinians as the only victims will never lead to peace.
Oh I must have missed it, what happened, what the Palestinian have done to them?
I find it very strange that you have missed this and do not know about Israelis being the victims of rocket attacks and suicide bombers.


Matt,
Israelis are a victim to their own aggression. If they have learned from their past, the Holocaust, they would have never committed crimes against Palestinians that will drive them to commit crimes in return.
Surely one wrong leads to many wrongs, in this case a chain of wrongs.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by honeto


so if a child is born in a prison, that prison belongs to him/her? That's an interesting logic and belief you present!
Hasan

I'm curious Hasan,
You have said that you live in the United States.  Are you a citizen of the United States?  If so, how did you become a citizen of the United States?
You have children.  Are they citizens of the United States with rights in the land?  How did most immigrants come to be citizens of the countries in which they live?

It is foolishness to live in the past rather than deal with things as they presently are.  The past is past, what's done is done.  The future will not improve unless people are willing to accept the past and move forward from where they now are.  Where would Russia be today if it clung to the past?  Where would Germany be today if it clung to the past and past injustices?  What about Poland, Austria, Vietnam, Korea, Japan?  All those who have endured injustices.
I urge you to try and think with a clear, fair, and open mind.

Salaam,
CH


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 9:31pm

Address by H.E. Dr. Mahmud Ahmadinejad President of the Islamic Republic of Iran before the 65th Session of the United Nations General Assembly

New York 23 September 2010

the occupation of the Palestinian

The oppressed people of Palestine have lived under the rule of an occupying regime for 60 years, been deprived of freedom, security and the right to self-determination, while the occupiers are given recognition. On a daily basis, the houses are being destroyed over the heads of innocent women and children. People are deprived of water, food and medicine in their own homeland. The Zionists have imposed five all-out wars on the neighboring countries and on the Palestinian people.
The Zionists committed the most horrible crimes against the defenseless people in the wars against Lebanon and Gaza.
The Zionist regime attacked a humanitarian flotilla in a blatant defiance of all international norms and kills the civilians.
This regime which enjoys the absolute support of some western countries regularly threatens the countries in the region and continues publicly announced assassination of Palestinian figures and others, while Palestinian defenders and those opposing this regime are pressured, labeled as terrorists and anti Semites. All values, even the freedom of expression, in Europe and in the United States are being sacrificed at the altar of Zionism.
Solutions are doomed to fail because the right of the Palestinian people is not taken into account.
Would we have witnessed such horrendous crimes if instead of recognizing the occupation, the sovereign right of the Palestinian people had been recognized?
Our unambiguous proposition is the return of the Palestinian refugees to their home land and the reference to the vote of the people of Palestine to exercise their sovereignty and decide on the type of governance


-------------
i try to say only facts


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 04 December 2012 at 9:33pm

Supreme Leader OF IRAN(2012/11/21 - 19:15)

Ayatollah Khamenei said the Zionists' savage attack on the people of Gaza shows the extreme brutality of the leaders of the Zionist regime. He reiterated that America, England and France shamelessly support the massacre of the people of Gaza, further adding: "Islamic countries, especially Arab governments, should reform their behavior in this issue and they should try to make the enemies lift the siege of this region by helping the innocent and brave people of Gaza. The Islamic Ummah should follow the example of the victorious resistance of the people of Gaza and it should realize that resistance is the only way to defeat the enemies of Islam."

The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution said that the brutality of the Zionist attack on the innocent civilians of Gaza should awaken the world of Islam and it should give fresh impetus to the movement of Muslim peoples, further adding: "The shocking brutality of the leaders of the Zionist regime showed that these completely savage creatures have no human qualities.

Ayatollah Khamenei stated: "The crimes of the Zionists in Gaza revealed the true nature of the enemies of the Islamic world and those who challenge the Islamic Republic at international meetings."

His Eminence strongly condemned the efforts by the leaders of global arrogance to support the crimes of the Zionists and reiterated: "America, England and France did not even frown at the brutal Zionist regime. By supporting and encouraging these criminals, they showed how inhumane and immoral the violent enemies of the Islamic Ummah are."

He added: "The leaders of global arrogance, such as the American government which supports the crimes of the brutal Zionists, shamelessly claim that they defend human rights and they put themselves in the position of prosecutors of other peoples and countries."

Ayatollah Khamenei added: "The behavior of Arab and Islamic governments regarding the events of Gaza was not acceptable because some of them only condemned the Zionists in words and some others did not even condemn the Zionists in words."

He stressed: "Those who call Muslim nations to unity and claim to be the leaders of the Islamic Ummah are very outspoken on issues which suit their political agenda, but in this case - because they have to get involved with America and England - they refuse to condemn the Zionists in an outspoken and genuine way or they merely offer verbal support, which is of little value."

The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution referred to the glorious resistance of the people and youth of Gaza, adding: "By Allah's favor, they proved once more that by relying on faith, resistance and diligence it is possible to defeat large and heavily armed groups that are supported by the arrogant powers."

His Eminence said that the Zionist regime is nervously looking for a ceasefire. He reiterated: "Those who started those brutal actions received were harmed more and they are looking for a ceasefire more desperately than the small number of people who live in the Gaza Strip."

Ayatollah Khamenei added that Islamic countries should strengthen their faith and determination and that they should make scientific and technological progress in order to advance in the area of building weapons as well as in other areas.

 

  



-------------
i try to say only facts


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 December 2012 at 4:33pm
and where are all the sensible and sane people?  Where do they stand on this... this call for the people of Gaza to keep dying in the call of this man?  More than willing to sacrifice the people in Gaza.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 06 December 2012 at 1:19pm
The fact is that none of the so called civilized world leader has expressed their fairness or even humanity in the Gaza tragedy.
The brutal Israeli behavior and complete disregard for human life in Gaza is nothing new. They have been committing these crimes against unarmed civilians for seven decades now.
I hope at least one Western leader to have the guts to express their outrage at Israeli bahavior and call it for what it is, murder, inhuman, genocide, aparthied.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 06 December 2012 at 9:29pm
I tried my best not to get involved in this discussion but I have to send a post.
The answer to this Palestinian-Israeli conflict is not solved by reciting or reading the Qur'an. The Qur'an certainly mentions the reason of the conflict in 21:22; "Had there been therein (in the heavens and the earth [note singular and not plural]) alihah (gods i.e. a system of governance outside the Caliphate [for example the administrations of Joseph, Moses, David etc]sending]) besides Allah (the system of governance like that of Joseph, Moses, David simplified perfected, concluded and accepted by Allah in the teaching of Muhammad) then verily both would have been ruined..." The solution is provided in the exemplary Muhammad's way of life. This the 'Arabs have refused to believe and practice. So there will never be an end to this conflict in the manner Jerusalem suffered attacks and destruction from the hands of the Amelikites. This is because there is only One Allah (G-d) and one Shari'a.

Friendship.


Posted By: whitelion553
Date Posted: 07 December 2012 at 7:14pm

Unfortunately, all of the right people were alone at first in the history of this world .for example :our prophets and …

But after a period of time their lovers and friends were more than image of their enemies.

  



-------------
i try to say only facts


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 07 December 2012 at 11:21pm

Those facts can only be from the Torah and the Qur'an. For example what you said is in Qur'an 19:59; Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salat (prayers) to be lost; either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell."
Read ISBN 146807044 for proof. Muhammad can never tell a lie or say something that is not happening! But people like Abu Loren prefer to deny instead of to learn, seek forgiveness and be far from Hell!

Frieyndship.



Print Page | Close Window