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1967 Borders (Palestine)

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Discription: Current Events
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24316
Printed Date: 25 October 2014 at 5:39am


Topic: 1967 Borders (Palestine)
Posted By: i.dawa
Subject: 1967 Borders (Palestine)
Date Posted: 17 November 2012 at 9:20am
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

1967 Borders

They talk about the 1967 borders as if it was blessed by Allah (swt) and we were given new revelation cancelling the Sharia Rule with regards to:

1) When the Muslim Armies conquer any land it becomes part of the Islamic State (Khilafah) and this was the case under the Khilafah when Muslims lived by Islam as one ummah with one Ruler.

(When Dr Hertzel offered to buy Palestine from the Islamic State sultan Abdul Hamid (Muslim Ruler) said it was not his to give away, it belonged to the Muslims who had irrigated it with their blood and that while he was alive, he would rather be cut to pieces rather than allow the Islamic lands to be dismembered.


2) It is forbidden (Haram) to give away any land which belongs to the Muslims

"Whoever seeks to divide Muslim land, kill him, whoever he may be. And Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (hadith)

3) When Umar bin Alkhattab (ra) conquered Palestine he expelled the Jews from there which is a Sharia Rule as per Ijma as-Sahaba not to let them reside there.


Unfortunately, the Kuffar having the upper hand over us managed to divide us by making false borders between us and gave us kufr identities. They succeeded in secularising the Islamic Ummah who started to look to the Kuffar for solutions despite the warnings of Allah (swt).

"O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends, etc.) those outside your religion (Mushrikeen, Kuffaar, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand." (3:118)


Anyone who claims to represent the Muslims and Islam must stick to the Sharia and not play games with Sharia rules claiming times have changed and we live in a modern world where we have to respect the wishes of the International community or else we will be singled out and the world will turn against us.

"O Prophet! Keep your duty to Allah and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. And follow that which is inspired to you from your Lord. Verily, Allah is well aquainted with what you do. And put your trust in Allah and Sufficient is Allah as Trustee." (Suratul Ahzaab 33:1-3)


Remember O believers - It is Allah who created the universe and everything within it. The battle between Iman and Kufr will continue till the last day. Shaitan is still allowed to roam around us working hard to take people away from the path of Allah.

Those who will remind themselves of where they came from and where they are going will perhaps take notice of the revelations sent by Allah instead of relying on the Ignorant scholars and politicians who have no insight in to the religion of Allah.

Umar ibn Abdul Aziz (radiyallahu anhu) narrated: "Taqwa is not fasting during the day and it is not praying during the night and it is not the mixing of the two of them, but taqwa is leaving what Allah has made haram (forbidden) and by doing what Allah has made fard. After one has done this, Allah will provide good things for that person."


"It is Allah Who gives life and death and Allah sees well all that you do." (Suratul Ali Imran 3:156)



Replies:
Posted By: Blake
Date Posted: 17 November 2012 at 10:16am
Men are concerned with land ... and borders. God is concerned with the borders inside your heart. You really think in your heart that the God who created the universe and everything in it is concerned about a line drawn in the sand, that will make you happy?

men are concerned about conquering each other ... because they think small.
Go ahead.... see how well it has worked for everyone so far the last few thousand years.



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 November 2012 at 7:07pm
So i.dawa, by what you have posted...
 
it is ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but it is wrong when anybody else does it... 


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 24 November 2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




So i.dawa, by what you have posted...
 
it is ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but it is wrong when anybody else does it... 



Caringheart,
it is simpler than that. If you have a gun or a bigger gun, that does not give you right to go rob others with no or smaller gun than yours, nor does that give your the right to take control of someone' else's house and lock them up in their garage and don't let anything reach them, and then you take that house and occupy it shape it the way you want while the rightful owner is locked up beaten up and abused by you. And then you force the owner to sign their rights off that house.
It is that simple,
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 24 November 2012 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by honeto




Greetings Hasan,

Just wondering, did you read what i.dawa posted so that you may understand my comment?

Salaam,
CH


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 1:48pm
Caringheart,
I read i.dawa's post. In the light of the facts, if Palestinians agree to 1967 borders, it will be a great gift to the Jews, a sign on their part that for peace they will sacrifice and agree to give away what was theirs.
But if they demand, they will be in their absolute right, to not give any part of there homeland and be given back all of their homeland, Palestine as it was before 1947.

If your grand father had an apartment complex which he owned and took care of. One day he get sick and was unable to keep his eyes on the property. Soon a group of people took over half of the complex with force. You father found out and start to take care of the rest of the complex and went to court to fight for the rest. Time passed the court took too much time and did not do much. At last your father got tired of the situation and agreed with the party occupying his father's property to gave them the rights to what they took by force as long as they will not try to take all the complex by force so they can be at peace.
Tell me what are your rights and options in that case?
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 2:44pm
Hasan,

Men have always gone to war for land.  Land has always been won and lost.  On that regard Blake has made a good post.

But you skip my whole point.  It is in the context of what I.dawa posted.

So I restate my question...
 
is it ok when Muslims conquer and take land
 
but wrong when anybody else does it...



Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:12pm
CAringheart,
Ok, I agree that man has gone to war and conquered or lost land.
Tell me in history who has set the best example after conquering a land, with its people and their rights, with the land itself: Jews?, Christians? or Muslims?
I still need answer to my question above, as I have answered to yours.
Also you will be OK if Muslims one day take back Palastine, you will be as supportive of them as you seem to Israelis today? We see in this world it only takes time, and things can happen!
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:56pm
Greetings Hasan,

I am guessing you mean this question
"Tell me in history who has set the best example after conquering a land, with its people and their rights, with the land itself: Jews?, Christians? or Muslims?"
My answer would be "None".  I don't think it is about religion but about leaders.  Leaders were fair in helping Germany to rebuild after WWII was settled.  Of course no one was trying to conquer and take Germany, only to defeat its aggression.  Just as I feel no one is trying to take Gaza from the people there, but only to defeat the aggression.  Fortunately today most nations, people, and leaders, have progressed beyond conquesting of other lands, and are more concerned with building relations with other lands, that are beneficial to their own economies.

If Muslims were to become the rulers in Palestine and peace and free treatment for all people wanting to live there reigned, yes, why would I not be in support of that.  If a democracy could be established much like what the U.S. has, where all people are given equal rights and treatment and freedom of choice... who could object.  Can that, or would that, ever happen?  I understand that those living in Israel, Muslim, Christian, and Jew alike are gratified by their lives there... that Israel is a democracy that treats its citizens equally.  That is not to say that there may be individual prejudices among the people themselves, but there are programs in place in Israel even to combat that, and it is my understanding that if one just visits Israel they can sees the good in it for all people.  Most non-muslims do not feel that can count on this kind of equal treatment by the ruling powers if those powers were to be Muslim.

and once again, I have failed in being brief...

Salaam,
CH

I think the world does well to learn from Israel... the good things that she offers... and stop focusing on defeating her.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 29 November 2012 at 1:55pm
Caringheart,
perfection we will only find in Paradise, and for that reason I did not use the word "perfect" I said, "the best" because people will be people, and of course in history.
So please read again, who has set the best example in history?
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 3:43am
Originally posted by Blake

Men are concerned with land ... and borders. God is concerned with the borders inside your heart. You really think in your heart that the God who created the universe and everything in it is concerned about a line drawn in the sand, that will make you happy?

men are concerned about conquering each other ... because they think small.
Go ahead.... see how well it has worked for everyone so far the last few thousand years.



Excellent post, Blake. Humans need to think big to solve the Middle East conflict. Michael Lerner is someone who thinks big and he wrote down his thoughts:

http://www.amazon.com/Embracing-Israel-Palestine-Strategy-Transform/dp/1583943072 - http://www.amazon.com/Embracing-Israel-Palestine-Strategy-Transform/dp/1583943072

"A major modern conundrum is how the Arab/Israel conflict remains unresolved and, seemingly, unresolvable. In this inspirational book, Rabbi Michael Lerner suggests that a change in consciousness is crucial. With clarity and honesty, he examines how the mutual demonization and discounting of each sides’ legitimate needs drive the debate, and he points to new ways of thinking that can lead to a solution. Lerner emphasizes that this new approach to the issue requires giving primacy to love, kindness, and generosity. It calls for challenging the master narratives in both Israel and Palestine as well as the false idea that “homeland security” can be achieved through military, political, economic, or media domination. Lerner makes the case that a lasting peace must prioritize helping people on all sides (including Europe and the U.S.) and that real security is best achieved through an ethos of caring and generosity toward “the other.” As many spiritual leaders have taught, problems like these cannot be solved at the same level at which they originated—one must seek higher ground, and that becomes a central task for anyone who wants a sustainable peace. Embracing Israel/Palestine is written for those looking for positive, practical solutions to this ongoing dilemma."




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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shaik Speare
Date Posted: 02 December 2012 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by i.dawa



3) When Umar bin Alkhattab (ra) conquered Palestine he expelled the Jews from there which is a Sharia Rule as per Ijma as-Sahaba not to let them reside there.

Where did you pick up this rubbish? In fact, Umar did the opposite.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 2:53pm
CAringheart,
if you know history, you know the answer, what are you afraid of to spell it out? I only wnat a truthful answer from you.
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 10 December 2012 at 4:05pm
Hasan,
I answered.
peace.



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