Originally posted by Abu Loren
Originally posted by Non Muslim
This may be one of the most provocative threads ever.
I am an agnostic who is not fond of the Abrahamic faiths although I do see that they have some positive attributes. Islam fell into a very dim view in the US after 911. I really don't have an opinion whether this view is justified. Like many Americans I was very angry about 911 but even then I had a certain admiration for the courage of the bombers even though I thought there cause was wrong. I think that tactically 911 hurt Muslims.
I suspect that another attack may happen. In retrospect the problem I have with the 911 attacks is that most of the victims were innocent and enemies of nobody.
What I would like to say is that Americans, Asains, Eurpopeans, Africans and Middle Easterners all have a common enemy and that we are more alike than different. I mention a common enemy. To whom do you think I am referring.
I would ask any radical Muslims to not bring violence to the West or any other part of this planet but if you do pick a target that we all hate.
On the contrary my agnostic friend. After 9/11 there was/is a surge in interest in Islam. Many thousands of people are converting to Islam from all over the planet. They are finding the truth which was not available to them in the past, in that respect the internet has been a blessing.
A believers common enemy is people like you and athiests. They sow doubt in the believers mind and they are promised to receive a painful punishment.
Take the Shahada as soon possible and save your own soul.
I think that before 911 Americans had a more positive view of Islam. One of the most beloved men in America Muhammad Ali is a Muslim and people really love Karreem Abdul Jabbar.
I have issues with all religions yet I recognize they value in them too. If there is a God then he is hopefully a just and merciful god who judges us on our deed and not how much we massage his ego or believe the teachings of books that are often errant and absurd.
I look at the Middle East situation and if I were the president I would say to Israel, "We have a lot of land in the US and you are welcome to a chunk of it we'd love to have you here. Most of the Arabs don't want you and many would like to kill all of you so take your valuables and leave the rest to the PLO so they will be happy. You Jews would be much better off here in the US because nobody would be firing missile at you and you would not be going off killing Palestinians for no good reason. We want you Jews and they don't"
I am not fan of Judaism but I really admire the Jews and the contributions they made to humanity. The Persians and the Egyptians likewise had great civilizations.
Muslims have called American the great Satan. I think they have a point but it goes deeper than America. IMO there is an element that goes back to the early 19th century that has controlled world events and oppressed people. That element is greed and power and that greed and power is controlled by a small amount of people with a huge amount of wealth. That power suffered a blow on Tuesday.
The invasion of Iraq was not about ideology or US national security. It was about some very evil and greedy people profiteering from war. This would recession was not an accident.
I have read the Koran, Haddith, Bible and the Book of Mormon and I reject them all. Christians, and Muslims have been making trouble for non Christians and non Muslims for centuries when the tenants of both faiths when spoken from the churches and the pulpits has been just the opposite. I am not sure which religion has committed more carnage in the name of God. If there is a heaven I don't think that any one religion has a lock on heaven.
I can thoroughly discredit Christianity and I have read Muslim sites that did a splendid job of it. I have also seen Islam debunked as well. Here's the problem with that. It doesn't do anyone any good. To my way of thinking it doesn't matter what religion is write what matters is if a person is right with God.
Regardless of what we believe about God we all have a common enemy here on earth. I get it why those men did 911. I think it was a huge mistake but I admire their courage I just think they hit the wrong targets to further their cause.
Abu Loren, it it is allowed here and you would like to debate the Koran and Haddith and prove me wrong please do so. You could use me as an example of why Islam is the only true religion. This could serve as a way to show Muslims who are on the fence that you are right and I am lost. You also have me at a disadvantage as I have no god on my side and you have the one true god.
If this sort of discussion is allowed let's have it but let's do it in another thread. Personally I really don't care what you or anyone else believes so long as you are honest and don't try to force your beliefs on others. I have no strong spiritual beliefs so I have nothing to force onto other people. I have no burden of proof. Believers have the burden of proof.