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JESUS IS LOVE?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24202
Printed Date: 20 October 2014 at 2:55am


Topic: JESUS IS LOVE?
Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: JESUS IS LOVE?
Date Posted: 03 November 2012 at 1:55pm
Luke 14:25-26 New International Version (NIV) The Cost of Being a Disciple 25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.



Replies:
Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 23 November 2012 at 8:37am
Hi Mahdi,

Quote: Jesus is love?
Luke 14:25-26 New International Version (NIV) The Cost of Being a Disciple 25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

Response: --- I believe there is no better proof than this that the Scripture has not been changed, --- or it wouldn’t use a direct ‘opposite meaning’ word to describe a type of ‘love,’ --- would it?
The Greek interlinear uses the word ‘hate,’ so it has to be used to be accurate.

It is interesting to note that the parable that Jesus told the crowd in verses 16-24 (which you should read to understand the context) was concerning those who were unworthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven, and He had just finished saying this, --- 14:
24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

The ways that the Scripture can be given extra explanation is by using an Asterisk* --- on the word with a *Footnote, --- or by using brackets (with extra words) behind it.

--- In the Amplified Bible (which gives extra explanations to some difficult Greek meanings), it renders it this way:
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and children and brothers and sisters—[yes] and even his own life also—he cannot be My disciple.

It simply means ‘to love less.’ --- Or have total devotion to God first, --- with other relationships being of less importance.
--- In Deuteronomy 6, God had commanded the Children of Israel, saying:
5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”

--- And when Jesus was asked, “Which was the great commandment in the law?” He said in Matthew 22:
38 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


Placid



Posted By: Salaam_Erin
Date Posted: 24 November 2012 at 12:47pm
In the Aramaic language there is no way of expressing someone loving a person more than another person. So Jesus used hyperbole to get His point across. Since the Second Commandment is 'Love your neighbour as you love yourself' (Leviticus 19:18), a commandment Jesus quoted, Jesus is clearly using an expression to indicate that our love for God must be like hatred for others in comparison. Matthew chooses to render it less literally in Greek, remember, he was there at the time Jesus said this (Matthew 10:37). It's no different from Moses commanding people to turn over even their relatives for idolatry.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 25 November 2012 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Mahdi,

Quote: Jesus is love?
Luke 14:25-26 New International Version (NIV) The Cost of Being a Disciple 25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

Response: --- I believe there is no better proof than this that the Scripture has not been changed, --- or it wouldn’t use a direct ‘opposite meaning’ word to describe a type of ‘love,’ --- would it?
The Greek interlinear uses the word ‘hate,’ so it has to be used to be accurate.

It is interesting to note that the parable that Jesus told the crowd in verses 16-24 (which you should read to understand the context) was concerning those who were unworthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven, and He had just finished saying this, --- 14:
24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

The ways that the Scripture can be given extra explanation is by using an Asterisk* --- on the word with a *Footnote, --- or by using brackets (with extra words) behind it.

--- In the Amplified Bible (which gives extra explanations to some difficult Greek meanings), it renders it this way:
25 Now huge crowds were going along with [Jesus], and He turned and said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his [own] father and mother [in the sense of indifference to or relative disregard for them in comparison with his attitude toward God] and [likewise] his wife and children and brothers and sisters—[yes] and even his own life also—he cannot be My disciple.

It simply means ‘to love less.’ --- Or have total devotion to God first, --- with other relationships being of less importance.
--- In Deuteronomy 6, God had commanded the Children of Israel, saying:
5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”

--- And when Jesus was asked, “Which was the great commandment in the law?” He said in Matthew 22:
38 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”


Placid



Cyril,
what is new in that? God has always taught that to humanity, how this was any different?
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 05 December 2012 at 10:48am
Hi Honeto,

Quote: 38 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Quote: what is new in that? God has always taught that to humanity, how this was any different?

Response: --- I wonder if you realize what you said?
--- God gave this first instruction to the Jewish people in Deuteronomy 6:
4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.
7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
--- (It was to be their lifestyle, to live out this love for God by giving it first place in their heart and mind. --- In their teaching and in their conversation.

However, the Jews strayed far away and had some 613 laws, which didn’t seem to include ‘loving God’ and ‘loving their neighbor as themselves.’
--- Jesus restated the commandments in Matthew 5, 6, and 7, --- and restored the teaching of love. --- Which was the fulfilling of the OT Law and Prophets.
--- The true believers today continue to believe and teach this because that is “The New Covenant” that God gave through Jesus. --- It wasn’t a ‘New Law,’ though it was new to the Apostles.
And that is how He answered the lawyer who asked, “Which is the great commandment in the law?

Matthew 22: 38 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

--- You are agreeing that it is not ‘new’ when you say, “What is new in that? God has always taught that to humanity, how this was any different?” --- This then applies to believing Muslims as well, does it not?
And do you, --- and other Muslims --- believe and practice these two laws ahead of any others?

--- You see, --- when you quote laws for the Jews from the OT (apart from the Ten commandments, which was a ‘Code of Ethics’ for all time), --- you are trying to revive the Old Covenant, which was already replaced by the New Covenant.

--- So you agree with me that the Law and the Revelation of the Prophets were fulfilled in Christ. --- Thank you.
--- So we don’t have to discuss anything previous to John the Baptist, --- except as a reference, to establish the truth of the New Covenant, (the New Testament.) --- That is great.


Placid



Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 06 December 2012 at 2:52pm
I am asking so how is it different, how is this new?
God gave laws before people broke them, God gave laws through Jesus and Mohmmed (pbut) people still break them, except some who keep them. There were people who kept them in the time of Noah, in the time of Moses, in the time of Jesus, and now in the time of prophet Mohammed (pbut)there are some who live by them.
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 15 December 2012 at 7:47am
Hi Honeto,

What is different is that the two laws that Jesus stated in Matthew 22 in the New Testament fulfill the law of commandments in the Old testament.

---Notice what He says in Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

For instance, the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, are a 'code of ethics' for all generations. --- They were not done away with, but are fulfilled in the Commandmment to Love.

The first four Commandmments deal with God,
If we love Him with all our heart, mind, and soul, we will not put other gods, or interests ahead of Him. We will not take His name in vain, we will honor His holy day as one set apart for rest and worship.

The fifth Commandment concerns parents. If we love them, we will honor and respect them.

The last five Commandments deal with our neighbors, acquaintances, or strangers. If we love them, we will respect human life and not murder them, commit adultery with them nor against them, will not steal from them, will not lie about them, and if we love them we will not be envious or jealous of what they have.

--- While we do have difficulty with people at times, the Scripture says, "As much as lies within you, live at peace with all men."





Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Honeto,

What is different is that the two laws that Jesus stated in Matthew 22 in the New Testament fulfill the law of commandments in the Old testament.

---Notice what He says in Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said to him, “'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

For instance, the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20, are a 'code of ethics' for all generations. --- They were not done away with, but are fulfilled in the Commandmment to Love.

The first four Commandmments deal with God,
If we love Him with all our heart, mind, and soul, we will not put other gods, or interests ahead of Him. We will not take His name in vain, we will honor His holy day as one set apart for rest and worship.

The fifth Commandment concerns parents. If we love them, we will honor and respect them.

The last five Commandments deal with our neighbors, acquaintances, or strangers. If we love them, we will respect human life and not murder them, commit adultery with them nor against them, will not steal from them, will not lie about them, and if we love them we will not be envious or jealous of what they have.

--- While we do have difficulty with people at times, the Scripture says, "As much as lies within you, live at peace with all men."





Hi placid,
Is Jesus God????


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 15 December 2012 at 12:30pm
Which has always been the case, so nothing different! God teaches us some of us follow it some do not, just like in the past, and will continue till the end!
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"



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