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Debating With Christians

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24151
Printed Date: 21 December 2014 at 11:08pm


Topic: Debating With Christians
Posted By: Abu Loren
Subject: Debating With Christians
Date Posted: 27 October 2012 at 3:17am
As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
I've just learned a very hard lesson and I admit defeat infront of everybody here in this forum.
 
When debating with the Christians members here, you give them the truthful answers point by point, then they twist it and turn it around and come back with the same arguement over and over and over again. Then one can only give them the SAME truthful answer and it just goes around in circles. I know deeply that the reason is because they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and they do not SEE with their own eyes. They always bring the SAME aruguement which has been dealt with only a couple of pages earlier. Then throw in the mix, the atheists and the agnostics who try to convince you that there is no God because there is no proof. They then try to mislead you and try to divert you away from the 'siratal mustaqeem'. This is a great sin, if only they realise this, they will receive a double punishment. :(
 
The great comfort in all of this is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has promised his believers that the TRUTH shall prevail. As long as we stay strong in faith and do the best we can to reach Jannah by following the five pillars of Islam that we are given then at least we have the minutest of chance to reaching it, Insha'Allah.
 
So a message to all  my brothers and sisters in faith to stay strong and do not let satan and his accomplices stray you from the Straight Path.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum



Replies:
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 October 2012 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
I've just learned a very hard lesson and I admit defeat infront of everybody here in this forum.
 
When debating with the Christians members here, you give them the truthful answers point by point, then they twist it and turn it around and come back with the same arguement over and over and over again. Then one can only give them the SAME truthful answer and it just goes around in circles. I know deeply that the reason is because they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and they do not SEE with their own eyes. They always bring the SAME aruguement which has been dealt with only a couple of pages earlier. Then throw in the mix, the atheists and the agnostics who try to convince you that there is no God because there is no proof. They then try to mislead you and try to divert you away from the 'siratal mustaqeem'. This is a great sin, if only they realise this, they will receive a double punishment. :(
 
The great comfort in all of this is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has promised his believers that the TRUTH shall prevail. As long as we stay strong in faith and do the best we can to reach Jannah by following the five pillars of Islam that we are given then at least we have the minutest of chance to reaching it, Insha'Allah.
 
So a message to all  my brothers and sisters in faith to stay strong and do not let satan and his accomplices stray you from the Straight Path.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum


Greetings Abu Loren, (and all others)

May I offer this.
You can hardly 'straighten out my belief', as you might put it, if you do not know what I believe, if I am not allowed to state my beliefs, which I am not on this forum.  Time and again my questions are thwarted.  Time and again when I express my perception of things it is not allowed, my posts disappear.  If my perception is not correct who is going to tell me when they are not even allowed to know what my perception is?
You can hardly convince me of Islam, when I am not allowed to ask the hard questions of Islam.  Every religion goes through scrutiny and must be able to pass muster to be accepted.

I came to the forum because it is called Islamicity. 
I came to ask about Islam... not other religion.
I came to see what the people of Islam believe.

Since I can not ask, since I can not say anything openly, I can hardly be convinced of anything.
I will not be convinced of Islam through attacks on the belief of others when asked about yours.  I require answers about yours.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 29 October 2012 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Abu Loren




As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
I've just learned a very hard lesson and I admit defeat infront of everybody here in this forum.
 
When debating with the Christians members here, you give them the truthful answers point by point, then they twist it and turn it around and come back with the same arguement over and over and over again. Then one can only give them the SAME truthful answer and it just goes around in circles. I know deeply that the reason is because they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and they do not SEE with their own eyes. They always bring the SAME aruguement which has been dealt with only a couple of pages earlier. Then throw in the mix, the atheists and the agnostics who try to convince you that there is no God because there is no proof. They then try to mislead you and try to divert you away from the 'siratal mustaqeem'. This is a great sin, if only they realise this, they will receive a double punishment. :(
 
The great comfort in all of this is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has promised his believers that the TRUTH shall prevail. As long as we stay strong in faith and do the best we can to reach Jannah by following the five pillars of Islam that we are given then at least we have the minutest of chance to reaching it, Insha'Allah.
 
So a message to all  my brothers and sisters in faith to stay strong and do not let satan and his accomplices stray you from the Straight Path.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum

Greetings Abu Loren, (and all others)May I offer this.You can hardly 'straighten out my belief', as you might put it, if you do not know what I believe, if I am not allowed to state my beliefs, which I am not on this forum.  Time and again my questions are thwarted.  Time and again when I express my perception of things it is not allowed, my posts disappear.  If my perception is not correct who is going to tell me when they are not even allowed to know what my perception is?You can hardly convince me of Islam, when I am not allowed to ask the hard questions of Islam.  Every religion goes through scrutiny and must be able to pass muster to be accepted.I came to the forum because it is called Islamicity.  I came to ask about Islam... not other religion.I came to see what the people of Islam believe.Since I can not ask, since I can not say anything openly, I can hardly be convinced of anything.I will not be convinced of Islam through attacks on the belief of others when asked about yours.  I require answers about yours. Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
what you said it not true.
You have asked questions, lots of them.
You have put Islam down intentionally.
You have shown your position on your belief shifting.
Your questions about Islam has been answered.
You were unable to clarify and proof what you say you believe.
You regular private messages don't have anything you claim you could not post or were not allowed to post making that claim suspicious and untrue.
If you have any truth in your claim or your belief it will not need any such excuses.
Truth stands out clear from Falsehood. Anyone familiar with your posts that are a proof on this forum will agree to what I wrote above.
Hasan



-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 29 October 2012 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by honeto


Caringheart,
what you said it not true.
    >> Again you attack me and accuse me of being a liar.

You have asked questions, lots of them.
    >> No, Hasan, I have a boatload of posts that I could share with you that were never allowed to post.

You have put Islam down intentionally.
    >> No, I do not.  I express my perception just as you express your perception of other religion.  The difference is that you are not censored.

Your questions about Islam has been answered.
    >> No they have not because they have not been allowed.  Nausheen was a great help with one of my questions when she interceded with the moderators for me.

You were unable to clarify and proof what you say you believe.
   >> You are unable to clarify and proof what you say you believe.

You regular private messages don't have anything you claim you could not post or were not allowed to post making that claim suspicious and untrue.
    >> Now that is a lie.

Truth stands out clear from Falsehood. Anyone familiar with your posts that are a proof on this forum will agree to what I wrote above.
    >> Only those who are deceived.



One can hardly seek truth when truth is not allowed to be explored from all sides.


Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 October 2012 at 2:23pm
Experiential claimed Jesus came in 70AD and destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. I was speechless. And he keeps referring to the new testament as injil.


Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Experiential claimed Jesus came in 70AD and destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. I was speechless. And he keeps referring to the new testament as injil.
Hi Mahdi
The Romans came in 70AD and destroyed the temple. Jesus prophesied it would happen. And its Muslims that refer to the New Testament as the Injil. I just tag along.


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren




As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
I've just learned a very hard lesson and I admit defeat infront of everybody here in this forum.
 
When debating with the Christians members here, you give them the truthful answers point by point, then they twist it and turn it around and come back with the same arguement over and over and over again. Then one can only give them the SAME truthful answer and it just goes around in circles. I know deeply that the reason is because they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and they do not SEE with their own eyes. They always bring the SAME aruguement which has been dealt with only a couple of pages earlier. Then throw in the mix, the atheists and the agnostics who try to convince you that there is no God because there is no proof. They then try to mislead you and try to divert you away from the 'siratal mustaqeem'. This is a great sin, if only they realise this, they will receive a double punishment. :(
 
The great comfort in all of this is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has promised his believers that the TRUTH shall prevail. As long as we stay strong in faith and do the best we can to reach Jannah by following the five pillars of Islam that we are given then at least we have the minutest of chance to reaching it, Insha'Allah.
 
So a message to all  my brothers and sisters in faith to stay strong and do not let satan and his accomplices stray you from the Straight Path.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum



Everyone has a right to his opinions. But don't make the mistake of equating "opinion" with "truth." Pontius Pilate asked Jesus: "We both have truths, aren't mine the same as yours?"


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 2:58am
Originally posted by Larry

Originally posted by Abu Loren




As'alaamu Alaikkum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu
 
I've just learned a very hard lesson and I admit defeat infront of everybody here in this forum.
 
When debating with the Christians members here, you give them the truthful answers point by point, then they twist it and turn it around and come back with the same arguement over and over and over again. Then one can only give them the SAME truthful answer and it just goes around in circles. I know deeply that the reason is because they do not have guidance from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and they do not SEE with their own eyes. They always bring the SAME aruguement which has been dealt with only a couple of pages earlier. Then throw in the mix, the atheists and the agnostics who try to convince you that there is no God because there is no proof. They then try to mislead you and try to divert you away from the 'siratal mustaqeem'. This is a great sin, if only they realise this, they will receive a double punishment. :(
 
The great comfort in all of this is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has promised his believers that the TRUTH shall prevail. As long as we stay strong in faith and do the best we can to reach Jannah by following the five pillars of Islam that we are given then at least we have the minutest of chance to reaching it, Insha'Allah.
 
So a message to all  my brothers and sisters in faith to stay strong and do not let satan and his accomplices stray you from the Straight Path.
 
As'alaamu Alaikkum



Everyone has a right to his opinions. But don't make the mistake of equating "opinion" with "truth." Pontius Pilate asked Jesus: "We both have truths, aren't mine the same as yours?"
 
..............................................


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 4:16pm
Mahdi The Seeker,

   You are confusing dates and people. Jesus Christ did not "destroy" the Temple, he predicted, accurately, that within one generation of His death, the entire Temple would be destroyed until not one stone sits on top of another. The Temple was a huge and rich complex built of gleaming white stone by King Herod (who expanded the Temple Mount by erecting retaining walls made of huge dressed stones, which can be seen at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount, the only remaining pieces of the ancient Temple complex), with courtyards and buildings along with the Temple itself. The very idea that this complex could all be destroyed within 35 years was seen as ludicrous and impossible by the Jews.

   But, when the Roman General (and later Emperor) Titus besieged Jerusalem during the First Jewish-Roman War, and conquered it in 70 A.D., he destroyed the Temple completely, using battering rams to destroy some of the walls surrounding the Temple (some of which can be seen today, broken and smashed, at the base of the Temple Mount), in revenge for the revolt of the Jews against Roman authority, just as Jesus Christ had predicted.

   Titus's victory over the Jews in this war is recorded on the inner walls of the Arch of Titus in Rome. One of the scenes depicted is the carrying off of the Temple's treasures, especially the Golden Menorah, after the Fall of Jerusalem. Proof that there was a Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount in 70 A.D. The presence of the Jewish Temple was observed and written about by many ancient writers such as Josephus and Tacitus.

   This was the Second Temple built on this spot. The First Temple, built by king Solomon in the 10th century B.C., was plundered in the siege of Jerusalem in 598 B.C. by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. And it was this same king who returned and then completely destroyed this Temple in 587 B.C.

   As to the matter of the "Injil." Muslims believe that the Injil was the orignal Gospel of Jesus. But they believe that this Injil was later corrupted by Jews and Christians. The word Injil has been used loosely on many comments and has come to be understood by many posters as simply referring to the New Testament.

Larry

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Experiential claimed Jesus came in 70AD and destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. I was speechless. And he keeps referring to the new testament as injil.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 04 November 2012 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart,
what you said it not true.
    >> Again you attack me and accuse me of being a liar.You have asked questions, lots of them.
    >> No, Hasan, I have a boatload of posts that I could share with you that were never allowed to post.You have put Islam down intentionally.
    >> No, I do not.  I express my perception just as you express your perception of other religion.  The difference is that you are not censored.Your questions about Islam has been answered.
    >> No they have not because they have not been allowed.  Nausheen was a great help with one of my questions when she interceded with the moderators for me.You were unable to clarify and proof what you say you believe.
   >> You are unable to clarify and proof what you say you believe.
You regular private messages don't have anything you claim you could not post or were not allowed to post making that claim suspicious and untrue.
    >> Now that is a lie.Truth stands out clear from Falsehood. Anyone familiar with your posts that are a proof on this forum will agree to what I wrote above.
    >> Only those who are deceived.
One can hardly seek truth when truth is not allowed to be explored from all sides.


Like I have said, there seems to be no truth in that that yuo are not allowed to answer. You have e-mailed me so many private messages none have anything different than what your posts contain, no real answers same old stuff making no sense at all and you think you have something so important to tell us but you never could say what it was?
Hasan

-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 04 November 2012 at 3:22pm
"The Truth will set you free."


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 04 November 2012 at 6:51pm
Caringheart,

   If you want your questions ACTUALLY answered by someone, Hasan isn't the most satisfactory person to contact. He frequently refuses to answer difficult questions and simply accuses the person making them as trying to "trick' him into answering. But if you don't answer HIS questions, then you are "running away from the truth" so to speak! LOL!

Larry


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 November 2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by Larry

Caringheart,

   If you want your questions ACTUALLY answered by someone, Hasan isn't the most satisfactory person to contact. He frequently refuses to answer difficult questions and simply accuses the person making them as trying to "trick' him into answering. But if you don't answer HIS questions, then you are "running away from the truth" so to speak! LOL!

Larry


Hi Larry,
I don't ask questions of Hasan.  I only private message replies to him because they so often do not post on the forum, or get pushed back by so many days that they are never seen
... and I only send those when I feel they are important.
Hasan and I used to do ok.  I don't know what happened.
CH


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 05 November 2012 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Larry

Caringheart,

   If you want your questions ACTUALLY answered by someone, Hasan isn't the most satisfactory person to contact. He frequently refuses to answer difficult questions and simply accuses the person making them as trying to "trick' him into answering. But if you don't answer HIS questions, then you are "running away from the truth" so to speak! LOL!

Larry
 
Exactly the reason we don't debate with teenage mentality, adolescent immature people like you. Grow up first and come back.


Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 06 November 2012 at 5:34am
Aassalamualaikum Abu Loren. Well, it's a problem which many christians are themselves aware of.
http://carm.org/mistakes-christians-make-when-dialoguing-atheists -
http://carm.org/mistakes-christians-make-when-dialoguing-atheists

Take note of mistakes no.4 and no.5.


-------------
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 06 November 2012 at 10:04am
"We" don't debate? Got a frog in your pocket? Mind your own business, "Abu," and let Hasan speak for himself if he has a problem with me.


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 06 November 2012 at 10:14am
Just what we need, a "newbie" poster who prefers to post self-serving links to a "Christian" website instead of speaking for himself. Why am I not surprised?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 November 2012 at 11:47am
When I saw the title of the thread today I saw the problem staring glaringly in the face...
I thought 'Why not just start talking with Christians then, instead of debating?'
Why must everything be a debate?


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 07 November 2012 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

When I saw the title of the thread today I saw the problem staring glaringly in the face...
I thought 'Why not just start talking with Christians then, instead of debating?'
Why must everything be a debate?
 
Missed your input on this forum for a couple of days, hope you are ok :)
 
We must debate because of the difference of opinion that we have about religion, way of life and ultimately God. We aill say there is only One God and you will say 3. We will say Jesus (pbuh) is a mighty messenger and Messiah and you will say not he is god.
 
So as you can see we cannot simply talk over a cup of tea but we must continue to debate until all Christians sumit to the Will of God Almighty and become muslims.


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


Originally posted by Caringheart

When I saw the title of the thread today I saw the problem staring glaringly in the face...I thought 'Why not just start talking with Christians then, instead of debating?'Why must everything be a debate?

 
Missed your input on this forum for a couple of days, hope you are ok :)
 
We must debate because of the difference of opinion that we have about religion, way of life and ultimately God. We aill say there is only One God and you will say 3. We will say Jesus (pbuh) is a mighty messenger and Messiah and you will say not he is god.
 
So as you can see we cannot simply talk over a cup of tea but we must continue to debate ******until all Christians sumit to the Will of God Almighty and become muslims******.


Now we see "Abu Loren's" real agenda behind the "debate." This is not a discussion, it is a thinly-disguised attack on Christianity itself. So much for "interfaith dialogue."


Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 6:52am
Mistake no.5 Mr.Larry. Ha ha ha. Got you. Right on.

-------------
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 November 2012 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

When I saw the title of the thread today I saw the problem staring glaringly in the face...
I thought 'Why not just start talking with Christians then, instead of debating?'
Why must everything be a debate?
 
Missed your input on this forum for a couple of days, hope you are ok :)
 
We must debate because of the difference of opinion that we have about religion, way of life and ultimately God. We will say there is only One God and you will say 3. We will say Jesus (pbuh) is a mighty messenger and Messiah and you will say not he is god.
 
So as you can see we cannot simply talk over a cup of tea but we must continue to debate until all Christians sumit to the Will of God Almighty and become muslims.


"We will say there is only One God and you will say 3. "

*sigh
(emulating the response of someone else on this forum)

But yes, thank you Abu Loren, I am well.

Salaam,
CH


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 12:07am
Originally posted by Ghazzali

Mistake no.5 Mr.Larry. Ha ha ha. Got you. Right on.



Hey Ghazzali, Grow up. Your Pal, Larry


Posted By: Ghazzali
Date Posted: 12 November 2012 at 6:52am
Mistake no.5 again. ha ha ha. keep on going.

-------------
The world is a dangerous place to live in, not because of the bad people, but because of the good people who does not do anything about it.


Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 13 November 2012 at 12:24pm
*YAWN*


Posted By: Salaam_Erin
Date Posted: 16 November 2012 at 3:13am
Forgive me for finding this thread amusing.  Seems a lot of guys are exasperated with each other. ;o) 

Though I will take up some things.  Abu thinks that Christians have to be told the same points again and again and again and say the same thing and ask the same st**id questions all over again. 

However, what I find is that the difficulty is that you can't even seem to get to grips with what we are saying to you, and make the wrong definitions.  The classic one is when you say God is One and we say 3.  We don't say three, we say One like you do.  The whole 3 issue is to do with what is going on within this One God, and nothing to do with how many gods there are.  And why do you think we don't think Jesus was a mighty Messenger and Messiah? Jesus was indeed a mighty Messenger of the Father.  He is King of Israel= Messiah.  Sounds like people are talking at each other rather than to each other.  ;o)




Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 17 November 2012 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Salaam_Erin

Forgive me for finding this thread amusing.  Seems a lot of guys are exasperated with each other. ;o) 

Though I will take up some things.  Abu thinks that Christians have to be told the same points again and again and again and say the same thing and ask the same st**id questions all over again. 

However, what I find is that the difficulty is that you can't even seem to get to grips with what we are saying to you, and make the wrong definitions.  The classic one is when you say God is One and we say 3.  We don't say three, we say One like you do.  The whole 3 issue is to do with what is going on within this One God, and nothing to do with how many gods there are.  And why do you think we don't think Jesus was a mighty Messenger and Messiah? Jesus was indeed a mighty Messenger of the Father.  He is King of Israel= Messiah.  Sounds like people are talking at each other rather than to each other.  ;o)


 
You are forgiven.
 
It's true that members here keep coming back with the same questions that were answered previously, it's like it wasn't registered in their collective brains. Very frustrating.
 
I don't make the wrong definitions. I was simply saying that God Alimighty Himself has told us that there is only One God. An intelligent man like you must realise by now that the Trinity doctrine was invented at the infancy of Chritianity. You can believe in an egg (shell, egg & yoke) but a 3 in 1 God doesn't make sense to me I'm afraid. May be I am a simpleton but One God who nobody has seen nor can comprehend makes sense to me than a God who goes by 3 different disguises. I asked earlier, why would God Almighty need 3 different personalities? Is God a schizophrenic?
 
At least we can agree that Jesus (pbuh) was amighty messenger and the Messiah, so why can't we stop it there? Do we need to take that further and make him a part-deity?



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