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"Seek knowledge even in China"

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Discription: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24040
Printed Date: 21 October 2014 at 4:55am


Topic: "Seek knowledge even in China"
Posted By: JeddahBoy
Subject: "Seek knowledge even in China"
Date Posted: 06 October 2012 at 1:42pm
As a big fan of this hadith, I am wondering what else it will take for developing Islamic countries' governments to finance development.  More bloodshed, more uprisings, more civil war, more hunger.  What else will it take for the majority of citizens to educate themselves about the modern world of engineering, electronics, IT, science, business, economics, etc.?
Let's not wonder why the violence never ends. 

Malaysia has already made it.  I don't see any turmoil there.  Is it just luck that their government is like that?  I believe if we ourselves don't do what we can to help the development of our country, I doubt those in power will either. 

Yes, it's their job...but we have to do our part in seeking knowledge for the economic development of our country.  We have the internet, secondhand books, the newspaper...knowledge is knowledge.   



Replies:
Posted By: makasa
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 12:36am
My country also faced a similar situation


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:23am
Certainly it is laudable to seek knowledge, however "seek knowledge even in China" is a fabricated hadith, even though very popular.


Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 08 October 2012 at 6:52am
And yet the Abbasids did seek knowledge from cultures outside their own, non-Islamic even, and their civilization flourished until the Mongols sacked Baghdad.  That is all the evidence I need to follow this saying.  If we look at all the turmoil happening in the Muslim world with exception to some countries, it is obvious that not enough knowledge has been sought.  Wink  


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:53am
I can recommend the book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" by Jared Diamond. Trade and exchange of ideas between societies are indeed key drivers for success.




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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 09 October 2012 at 6:35am
Well certainly wisdom is found in many quotes and sayings, however, as you may be aware, there is a stern warning when attributing to the Messenger of Allah a saying or quote he didn't say.  It is not to be taken lightly, as we base our success in this life and the next upon following sound and authentic narrations.


Posted By: abosait
Date Posted: 10 October 2012 at 9:49am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Well certainly wisdom is found in many quotes and sayings, however, as you may be aware, there is a stern warning when attributing to the Messenger of Allah a saying or quote he didn't say.  It is not to be taken lightly, as we base our success in this life and the next upon following sound and authentic narrations.
Sure. Jazakallah for that reminder.

Allah made the first man Adam (a.s.) and made him observe and learn through his senses and intellect.

Then He taught him the names of things.

 Al-Baqara [2:37]        

فَتَلَقَّى آدَمُ مِن رَّبِّهِ كَلِمَاتٍ فَتَابَ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ

2:37 Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

What man has learnt through his external senses  and intellect is called the Aquired Knowledge. Man continued to increase in aquired knowledge through observation, experimentation, drawing conclusions and by imitating other creatures around him.

Allah Subhanahu wa ta’alaa then sent further guidance on all the branches of aquired knowledge and also guidance and knowledge about some unseen realities like knowledge about Himself, about the angels, about the Jinns and shayateen, about heaven and hell and about the day of judgement.. This guidance also known as wahyi was sent down to a large number of Prophets and messengers.

Knowledge that came down to mankind through this second stream is what is called the Revealed Knowledge.

The last of the revealed knowledge that put a stop to this second stream of knowledge was given to Prophet Muhammed Sallallahu ‘alahi wasallam.

The revealed Knowledge – the Qur’an and the Sunnah – also - talks not only about God and how to worship Him but it also contains information about the physical world we live in.

It was the Qur’an that was was responsible for much of the great scientific achievements. The revealed knowledge was responsible for enticing and motivating the Muslim scholars to take on the great challenge of exploring the physical world.

The early Muslims accomplished in Mathematics, Astronomy, Geography, Natural Sciences, Alchemy, Optics and other fields that lead the world for centuries.

Indeed Muslim Scientific achievement influenced the advance of science in the western world – from their renaissance to the modern era. Unfortunately Muslims have gone into deep slumber.

The aquired knowledge that we have discovered, invented and enlightened the world wih, they have kept it. They have built upon it while the Muslims are in deep slumber.

We pray that Allah Subhanahu wa ta’alaa helps us regain our golden age through primarily the education system and knowledge. Allahumma Ameen.

 




Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 11 October 2012 at 3:00pm
"And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them is dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path?" (16:76)

We have the Qur'an, read it and try to understand it, than start work it out from there. If we don't we end up as a burden like above.
We must have ideas, and imagination. We must not be told what to do.
We forgot that Allah creations came into existence as we know it by Wills it, yet we are so dormant. The wills must be there for things to happen:

"His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, "Be," and it is." (36:82)



Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 14 October 2012 at 4:33am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Certainly it is laudable to seek knowledge, however "seek knowledge even in China" is a fabricated hadith, even though very popular.


Laudable?...How about "obligation"?  "The seeking of knowledge is the duty of every Muslim, man or woman"...or is that fabricated as well?  Even if it was, does that mean it shouldn't be done for economic development? 

If it is so important to point out that these hadith are fabricated, shouldn't it also be pointed out that this spirit of the Golden Age of Islam is what the Islamic world can be, and the whole world in general?  I know it's difficult if the government isn't really helping out, but for those who can, and don't want anymore children being killed in a civil war or going hungry, the pursuit of knowledge in order to develop one's country is a must.


Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 14 October 2012 at 4:40am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Well certainly wisdom is found in many quotes and sayings, however, as you may be aware, there is a stern warning when attributing to the Messenger of Allah a saying or quote he didn't say.  It is not to be taken lightly, as we base our success in this life and the next upon following sound and authentic narrations.


"Seek knowledge even in China" is not sound?  There are many people in Pakistan, Iraq, etc who follow exact narrations...are those countries "successful"?

I put reality before narrations.  Realities of bloodshed and poverty.  So what I'm saying is not for people who are not sick of these issues ...it's for people who want to do something about them.

Even Western historians do not discount the achievements made during the Golden Age of Islam.  That actually happened.  I want that instead of what's happening now.  For the people who want that, please continue to seek knowledge and think of developing your country.  I myself come from a country that, although is growing steadily, the salary can be low such that middle class people may go to the Middle East just to become maids or nannies. 

I am an undergrad who was studying Sociology as a background to writing...I was unaware of the job market myself but I was successful working in a call center which pays well...Now I teach English online to Japanese students.  It pays well enough.  I never thought I would ever be able to do that but if there is a will, there really is a way.  It is so much easier now to gain knowledge through the net so if we have access, we should learn and read about everything - business, etc.  That is all I am saying.   


Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 1:06am

Bravo. It's great to see some opposing viewpoints being expressed here, without hostility.  Reason for hope, after all. Tongue



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God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 17 October 2012 at 7:28pm
Smile


Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 18 October 2012 at 3:44am
Originally posted by abosait

 

We pray that Allah Subhanahu wa ta’alaa helps us regain our golden age through primarily the education system and knowledge. Allahumma Ameen.

 




I totally agree with you.  The education system is key, but it is in dire need of reform.  I don't think that an overhaul is entirely necessary, but a holistic approach to address the ever changing realities of this world is my suggestion.  A 1 hour once a week class is enough to teach things or devote time to sales training, planting trees, structured learning experiences, goal setting, etc


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 19 October 2012 at 8:52am
https://www.coursera.org/ - https://www.coursera.org/


Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 19 October 2012 at 9:02am
Cool! Thanks Smile This is awesomeThumbs%20Up


Posted By: JeddahBoy
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 4:40am
Please tell me what you think of my first entry on my blog http://seekknowledgeeveninchina.wordpress.com/



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