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What would this trailer bring to the West?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23864
Printed Date: 01 September 2014 at 1:01am


Topic: What would this trailer bring to the West?
Posted By: Friendship
Subject: What would this trailer bring to the West?
Date Posted: 13 September 2012 at 3:03pm
Assalamu alaikum.


The Muslims watched a video-trailer on Muhammad Rasulullah made by an ignorant follower of the Islam brought by Moses and briefly mentioned by Jesus. They then went into rampage killing innocent Ambassador chris, three Americans and seven of Libyans. History repeats itself, for the weapons made by the clan of Banu Qaynuqa (or Qurayzah and Nadir) who were craftsman was turned against them. The weapons manufactured by USA was used to kill Ambassador Chris. Which of the Signs of Allah is the world rejecting?
What of this video-trailer? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1NaCg-Zgu0.
Which is the best way to achieve peace? Selling weapons to despotic monarchic Muslim regimes and giving them military aid or educating them on the current position of Muhammad and compelling them to put into practice that which was agreed upon by the Levi clan of the Children of Israel in Medina as both a political and Islamic leader.
Intellectualism is not on producing weapons with their disastrous recompense, but fighting with the tongue as demonstrated and emphasized by Muhammad Rasulullah. The only way out is to educate the neglected despised Muslim  youths by teaching them the Sunna (actions) of Muhammad Rasulullah and not the bare holy Qur'an. It is ineffective in maintaining peace.

Friendship.




Replies:
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 13 September 2012 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by Friendship

The Muslims watched a video-trailer on Muhammad Rasulullah made by an ignorant follower of the Islam brought by Moses and briefly mentioned by Jesus. They then went into rampage killing innocent Ambassador chris, three Americans and seven of Libyans. History repeats itself, for the weapons made by the clan of Banu Qaynuqa (or Qurayzah and Nadir) who were craftsman was turned against them. The weapons manufactured by USA was used to kill Ambassador Chris. Which of the Signs of Allah is the world rejecting?

This is the kind of twisted Muslim jingoism that gets my blood boiling!  An angry Muslim mob murders ten people, and you blame the Americans for selling them the weapons?? Angry

Intellectualism is not on producing weapons with their disastrous recompense, but fighting with the tongue as demonstrated and emphasized by Muhammad Rasulullah. The only way out is to educate the neglected despised Muslim  youths by teaching them the Sunna (actions) of Muhammad Rasulullah and not the bare holy Qur'an. It is ineffective in maintaining peace.

You have it backwards.  It is the hadith and sunna of Muhammad that teach aggression and violence.  It was Muhammad, not the Quran, who advocated and practiced jihad as perpetual warfare against nonbelievers and infidels (with the sword, not "the tongue", as you put it).  The Quran says "there is no compulsion in religion."  Muhammad said, "whoever changes his religion (from Islam), kill him."  Where do you think Muslim extremism comes from?



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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 13 September 2012 at 10:17pm
Assalamua alaikum.

Ronn! Human beings are not animals and creations who were not given an alternative for their good. This arena of accusing Muhammad has been proved to be st**id and of no use. Human beings progressed by experimentation. If good then the result is utilized.
It is unfair to dwell on hearsay based on ignorance hatred prejudice. Many of your Western elites have agreed that Muhammad treated the Jews with dignity and the Christians also. Many of your Western elites have also talked of the brutality Christians meted on the Jews. The Jews initially never accused the followers of Muhammad of anti-semitism. Let us go by the Western code of education, reasoning, fairness unbiased judgment etc. Did you read and listened to the video trailer and found inconsistency with what is in the Torah. I do not recognize Bible other than the Torah. I regard the Torah as an extension of Torah. So let us  go through them and find how to have peace. 
It is high time for Western civilization to seek for an alternative! It is given to them. Do not sell arms and weapons to the Muslim government who believe Muhammad on lip service. Practice what Muhammad taught and practiced and help only those with God as Moses did. There is enough evidence from the failure of wars to defeat whatever form of Islam is practiced in Muslim countries to the 9/11 etc affairs. I believe that it is illiteracy that is the key to out problem.
Tell us the authors who read the Islamic books I read and did not come to my conclusion. When the Torah was accidentally discovered what saved the then Jews? Was it not the Law? Tell us the constituents of Torah. what is the difference between the written la and Torah?
The Jews are slowly understanding the atrocities and are looking for a way to live peacefully. I am encouraging them and supporting them. Support the simplified written and oral law brought by Muhammad.

Friendship.

 


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 7:49am
Still not a word against the thousands (perhaps millions!) of fanatical Muslims destroying buildings and murdering their innocent occupants in cities throughout North Africa and the Middle East, eh? Disapprove Why not direct your message of "peace" to them?

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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 8:31am
Assaalamu alaika Ronn.

It is you who will now challenge them to be fair to reason commonsense logic and all that civilization calls for in the ability of man to be guided through listening and choosing between good and evil. Is man not created to understand and learn from his mistakes? What is the difference between our body receptors in looking for comfort under exposure of the physical world and not using them to look for peace among ourselves? Preaching for peace and justice to prevail is our common goal and not restricted to a particular Messenger. You should accept what is good and stop rejecting that good that comes from Muhammad.
You have to come out and fight your Governments dealing with despots for they supply them  with arms to fight and annex those fighting  them with the tongue! Is the West now arming the 'Arab world? Is the west not aware of the dangers of illiteracy among people? What does the West stand to loose by accepting Muhammad to be a philosophy whose sayings cannot be matched with any world  leader from antiquity to today?
Stop his hatred and deception! Your system of democracy has failed! You want worldly comfort, but your system of democracy has utterly failed.
There is enough wealth to be distributed for all to enjoy. You can't get it except through Muhammad.

Friendship.



Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 9:47am

Originally posted by Friendship

It is you who will now challenge them to be fair to reason commonsense logic and all that civilization calls for in the ability of man to be guided through listening and choosing between good and evil.

Yes, it is we who are left with the burden of challenging Muslim fanatics; and when we do, we will be accused of interfering with internal Muslim affairs. Ouch

Why is it never the Muslims themselves who challenge such outrageous behaviour in the name of Islam?

Preaching for peace and justice to prevail is our common goal and not restricted to a particular Messenger. You should accept what is good and stop rejecting that good that comes from Muhammad.

Tell that to the rioters in Egypt and Libya and Yemen and Iran.  Don't bother telling me. I'm just sitting in my room typing messages.  They are burning buildings and killing innocent people, and desecrating the reputation of Islam in the process.

You have to come out and fight your Governments dealing with despots for they supply them  with arms to fight and annex those fighting  them with the tongue! Is the West now arming the 'Arab world? Is the west not aware of the dangers of illiteracy among people? What does the West stand to loose by accepting Muhammad to be a philosophy whose sayings cannot be matched with any world  leader from antiquity to today?
Stop his hatred and deception!

As a matter of fact I do oppose many of my government's policies in this regard.  But who is more to blame -- the person who sells the gun, or the person who buys it and commits murder with it? 

Your system of democracy has failed! You want worldly comfort, but your system of democracy has utterly failed.

LOL Look around, Friendship.  Which countries are thriving and prospering, and which are in perpetual tyranny, turmoil and chaos?



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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 11:29am
Assalamu alaika.

If you are indeed a christian, you will certainly say that the man accused is a Coptic christian an Arab-American and you are not to be blamed. In this, you are advocating for a universal system that looks and caters for all. It is not allowed to choose one thing and reject the other. This is the teaching of Muhammad for he is that Messiah to save the world. The hatred of Muhammad by the 'Christians' as evidenced from the interfaith forum reflects the certainty that he is the savior. The Christians hate Muhammad as the last Messenger because they disbelieved in Jesus's sermons calling for love and not accusing some one without evidence. Those sermons leads to authenticating Muhammad as the messiah and Savior of mankind. In our culture it is an abomination and a disgrace for one  not to know his father. Islam demands that one should be called with the name of his father at all cost. Which is the only seed to sprout?
Ronn go through the comments of honest Christians. They never agree to what for example Professor Muir said. All those hating Muhammad and telling lies against him are indirectly challenging the physical world. The universal code of conduct demands all to participate. The Decree is that, if one participates and the the other refuses there will be no peace. I am advising you and you cohorts to understand how you are being deceived. This is an honor to you. No priest can deceive be for I am an individual given the faculty to reason and discern the truth. Throw that false idea of Allah having a son and enjoy the world. That thinking is enshrined in capitalism fear and favoritism.
Ronn, we are looking for peace and not development. You see, you do not reflect on the Torah for you hate it and it is nothing to you but a fairy tale. It has no bearing on your life and future.  But, I believe in the Torah for it shapes my life and belief One God.  Tell me the fault and the offense committed by Abraham when god gave Abimelech well and abundant of animals and Abraham had to go to him and seek for peace?
Development is a relative term and is not the subject matter in interfaith forum. Learn your rubrics.

Friendship.
 


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 6:13pm
Friendship,
I am not a Christian, so your most of your remarks don't apply.  I don't hate Muhammad, but I do hate how most Muslims have perverted his religion, and how they continue to disgrace his memory daily.


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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamua alaikum.

Ronn! Human beings are not animals and creations who were not given an alternative for their good. This arena of accusing Muhammad has been proved to be st**id and of no use. Human beings progressed by experimentation. If good then the result is utilized.
It is unfair to dwell on hearsay based on ignorance hatred prejudice. Many of your Western elites have agreed that Muhammad treated the Jews with dignity and the Christians also. Many of your Western elites have also talked of the brutality Christians meted on the Jews. The Jews initially never accused the followers of Muhammad of anti-semitism. Let us go by the Western code of education, reasoning, fairness unbiased judgment etc. Did you read and listened to the video trailer and found inconsistency with what is in the Torah. I do not recognize Bible other than the Torah. I regard the Torah as an extension of Torah. So let us  go through them and find how to have peace. 
It is high time for Western civilization to seek for an alternative! It is given to them. Do not sell arms and weapons to the Muslim government who believe Muhammad on lip service. Practice what Muhammad taught and practiced and help only those with God as Moses did. There is enough evidence from the failure of wars to defeat whatever form of Islam is practiced in Muslim countries to the 9/11 etc affairs. I believe that it is illiteracy that is the key to out problem.
Tell us the authors who read the Islamic books I read and did not come to my conclusion. When the Torah was accidentally discovered what saved the then Jews? Was it not the Law? Tell us the constituents of Torah. what is the difference between the written la and Torah?
The Jews are slowly understanding the atrocities and are looking for a way to live peacefully. I am encouraging them and supporting them. Support the simplified written and oral law brought by Muhammad.

Friendship.

 
Wait.  Friendship.  Are you going to tell me that Muhammad and his followers did not have and weild weapons?
 
And then there's this...
do you see Americans going crazy on the Islamic embassies in their country?
Here is the list.  In it is Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen...
 
http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/32122.htm - http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/32122.htm


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Friendship

It is you who will now challenge them to be fair to reason commonsense logic and all that civilization calls for in the ability of man to be guided through listening and choosing between good and evil.

Yes, it is we who are left with the burden of challenging Muslim fanatics; and when we do, we will be accused of interfering with internal Muslim affairs. Ouch

 
My thoughts exactly Ron.  Who is going to listen to anyone non-Muslim, or from the 'evil' west?  Hasn't that already been being tried... for how long now?


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaika.

If you are indeed a christian, you will certainly say that the man accused is a Coptic christian an Arab-American and you are not to be blamed. In this, you are advocating for a universal system that looks and caters for all. It is not allowed to choose one thing and reject the other. This is the teaching of Muhammad for he is that Messiah to save the world. The hatred of Muhammad by the 'Christians' as evidenced from the interfaith forum

Ronn go through the comments of honest Christians. They never agree to what for example Professor Muir said. All those hating Muhammad and telling lies against him are indirectly challenging the physical world. 
Throw that false idea of Allah having a son and enjoy the world. That thinking is enshrined in capitalism fear and favoritism.

Ronn, we are looking for peace and not development. You see, you do not reflect on the Torah for you hate it and it is nothing to you but a fairy tale. It has no bearing on your life and future.  But, I believe in the Torah for it shapes my life and belief One God.  Tell me the fault and the offense committed by Abraham when god gave Abimelech well and abundant of animals and Abraham had to go to him and seek for peace?
Development is a relative term and is not the subject matter in interfaith forum. Learn your rubrics.

Friendship.
 
 
and yet you can say all these things and no one accuses you of hate simply for stating your beliefs... and you throw insults.
Hmm


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 10:53pm
Assalamu alaika Ronn.

Then forgive me. I am sure I have expressed my views that mankind is a Muslim for the Arabic word means one who submits to the Supreme Being. Probably if I call you a Muslim you will deny that. t is not an offense for the forum addresses those with faith.
Then how are you going to change their attitude if you do not know what is expected from them so as to correct them by non-violent force or otherwise? Therefore the hadith of Muhammad that you fight them with the tongue is indeed what is to be done by all.
If Muhammad did something deserving him to be hated, he should be hated. But the most revolting thing for a civilized man is to accuse or deny something not based on practical witness and to be irrational.
Believe you me, I am not a Muslim because I was born in it. There is no reward in such belief. The Bible or rather more specifically the Torah convinced me of the truth that Muhammad brought.

Friendship

 


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 11:13pm
Assalamu alaika Caringheart.

The problem is that a heart that is obsessed cannot be convinced of the truth. I am not saying that you will never believe in what is true. But, I prefer you find facts and digest them yourself.
If, he made weapons to kill others and suppress others, how is going to announce that making of weapons is an abominable act?  How could he also march to Tabu a distance of about 1,000 kilometers from Madina to confront the greatest and mightiest empire of that period- the Roman empire? You will never believe that during the battle of Hunayn he hired his armor from a Jew in Madina. The Muslims learned the art of craftsmanship from the tribe of Banu Qaynuqa. All the weapons used by Muhammad were those confiscated from them.
Every good from Muhammad is a lie! So, what is then the use of this forum?
The Muslims involved in such acts are illiterate as well as their leaders. Ask them: Why did King Josiah applied the Torah and the followers of Muhammad are not applying it while the Qur'an is intact.
Caringheart! Please use your commonsense and reasoning and understand the parallel! This is the meaning of Qur'an! If the Jews only enjoyed peace after applying the law, tell me a nation that has a Message from their G-d who will enjoy peace if they disobeyed the G-d of the Jews? Are they a superior nation? Is there One God or multiple gods?
UNDERSTAND THE LESSONS IN THE TORAH FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD.

Friendship.  



Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 14 September 2012 at 11:25pm
Assalamu alaika Caringheart.

This is because you do not listen to logic and find the truth later. You believe that whatever is said by the preachers supporting monarchs is the true Islam.
In the first instance there was never a time Muhammad called someone with a name other than a Muslim. Muhammad always addressed the Messengers before him as his brothers. So, you have to address this important question: Where is the source of calling someone a Muslim and a disbeliever.
Ensure that you know the rules and regulations surrounding the translation of the Qur'an before you answer me. I do not like walking in the wilderness or making unmarked unguided and unrestricted remarks. For example do you the difference between a 'Zalimin' and 'Zalimun'? Do you know at what point one is called a disbeliever?
Read that book I told you to  read.

Friendship.



Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 7:18am

Originally posted by Friendship

Then forgive me. I am sure I have expressed my views that mankind is a Muslim for the Arabic word means one who submits to the Supreme Being. Probably if I call you a Muslim you will deny that. t is not an offense for the forum addresses those with faith.

To call me a Muslim would be to associate me with the mobs of rioters that are currently rampaging in cities everywhere.  Unless you can agree that they are not true Muslims and do not represent Islam, then yes, at this moment I would regard it as an offense to be called a Muslim.

Then how are you going to change their attitude if you do not know what is expected from them so as to correct them by non-violent force or otherwise? Therefore the hadith of Muhammad that you fight them with the tongue is indeed what is to be done by all.

The question is not how I am going to change their attitude.  The question is how are you going to change their attitude?  They won't listen to me, but they might listen to you.  If you think the hadith that can help you with this, then go ahead and use them; but there are also plenty of hadith and sunnah that they can use to justify their hatred and violence, as I'm sure you know.



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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 8:18am

The British newspaper The Telegraph has a great editorial on this subject.  I'll just quote the last few paragraphs, but the whole thing is definitely worth reading:

Video defaming Prophet Mohammed is a con job that pits fundamentalist Christians and Muslims against freedom

...
Perhaps even more concerning is the way extremists have learned to echo one other across our global village. We face the prospect of rabid anti-Islamist activists posting intentionally offensive clips on internet sites that are then trolled by radical Islamists looking to incite their followers to violence.

It is a sick, symbiotic relationship: tribal identities caught in a defensive crouch, lashing out at the 21st Century world that promises their extinction.

The real geo-political fault line of our times is not Left versus Right or even West versus East, but freedom versus fundamentalism. Those who believe that all Muslims are bad or all Muslims are good reflect the same sickness and the challenge for the rest of us is to present an example of fearless pluralism that makes the haters in this world look small, weak, and definitively on the wrong side of history.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9545212/Video-defaming-Prophet-Mohammed-is-a-con-job-that-pits-fundamentalist-Christians-and-Muslims-against-freedom.html - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9545212/Video-defaming-Prophet-Mohammed-is-a-con-job-that-pits-fundamentalist-Christians-and-Muslims-against-freedom.html

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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 8:26am
Assalamu alaika Ronn.

You said:  To call me a Muslim would be to associate me with the mobs of rioters that are currently rampaging in cities everywhere.  Unless you can agree that they are not true Muslims and do not represent Islam, then yes, at this moment I would regard it as an offense to be called a Muslim.
Response: I do not know what you believe in. But, I am not the one who called or named you a Muslim. Islam means obedience to Allah at any stage of Prophet hood so as to maintain and bring peace to the world. I am not calling you to pray five times etc. My approach is to understand that the Torah is indeed what Muhammad taught and preached.  Reflect on what Moses did when he found his brothers had worshiped the idol. His action in Exodus 34:26 is exactly Qur'an 109 and in many examples in the life of Muhammad. More specifically and in a general command Allah says in the Qur'an: 11:113, "And incline not toward those who do wrong, lest the Fire should touch you, and you have no protectors other than Allah , nor would you then be helped." So, I will never invite you to sit with the Muslim. I do not regard them as Muslims who will enter paradise. I am calling for a new social order. I am fully aware of your position if you join them.
It is utterly hypocritical for Pope Benedict XVI to call the Muslims to order. They have not done so for centuries, how can they do that today. Birds of the same feathers! Is the Qur'an not current? What other message do they need? Please tell Pope Benedict to read www//sbpra.com/allamadrsanisalihmustapha.
The Muslims lack strategy for they do not understand Muhammad's way of life. I have called them for over twenty years, but they do not believe for they have an entrenched ignorance and arrogance. There are steps to follow in achieving a common goal. This begins from education and praying the five daily prayers in the manner performed by Muhammad.  They do not how to pray! THEY OBSERVE THEIR DAILY PRAYERS ACCORDING TO THEIR TASTE.
Finally, understand that Muhammad did not secure the territories of al- Jazirah alone. His task was to uplift humanity, etc.

Friendship.





Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 8:54am
Assalamu alaika Ronn.

But how can we achieve pluralism when we do not know how one faith dovetails into the other. How can we achieve pluralism when one says the Torah is not the Bible and vice-versa and the Qur'an is not a recitation coined from the previous scriptures? How can we have pluralism when 6 billion people are not allowed to touch and read the Qur'an? How can we have pluralism when the despots are those supported with weapons to fight those who want to educate the world for peaceful co-existence?
I do not have the wealth to call for a conference between the Jews, Christians and followers of Muhammad who understood the Intention, Plan, Design, Will, Decree of the G-d of Abraham. Who has the power to put into action what is agreed on that meeting?
I am not unaware of the impossibility from the present status quo. But the moment the People of the Book understand the difference between 'Peace" and 'Facing the Ka'ba' and that 'Peace' does not necessarily imply facing the Ka'ba, that is when we can live in harmony.
The real geo-political fault line of our times is not Left versus Right or even West versus East, but freedom versus fundamentalism. The Telegraph is theoretical and not practical. I AM AN INSIDER AND I AM ASSURING YOU THAT THERE IS NO FREEDOM OF ACTION IN THE MUSLIM UMMA. THEY BELIEVE IN  LIP AND EYE SERVICES ONLY. WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR A UNIFIED ACTION THEY TURN THEIR BACKS AND ACCUSE ALLAH OF INVITING THEM TO DESTRUCTION. IT IS AN UMMA SATURATED WITH HYPOCRISY. THE HATERS OF THIS WORLD UNFORTUNATELY ARE THOSE RULING THE MUSLIM WORLD! THEY CANNOT BE DISPLACED!

FRIENDSHIP.




Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 September 2012 at 12:27pm
Greetings Friendship,
Lately I am having a great deal of trouble understanding what you are saying.

But as regards this
"Every good from Muhammad is a lie!"

My answer is No, every good thing from Muhammad came from the Judeo-Christian community.
I am beginning to see and understand that the confusion and the divide in Islam has to do with whether one belongs to a people who were introduced to Muhammad in his early years, or whether one learned and became Muslim during his later teachings.

I hope to have more to share later.  I need to go to another computer.
Salaam,
Caringheart


Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 2:39am
Assalamau alaika Caringheart.

Wishing you nice holiday.

Friendship


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 2:07pm

Originally posted by Friendship

But how can we achieve pluralism when we do not know how one faith dovetails into the other. How can we achieve pluralism when one says the Torah is not the Bible and vice-versa and the Qur'an is not a recitation coined from the previous scriptures? How can we have pluralism when 6 billion people are not allowed to touch and read the Qur'an? How can we have pluralism when the despots are those supported with weapons to fight those who want to educate the world for peaceful co-existence?

We don't need to know "how one faith dovetails into the other".  You seem to think that pluralism requires or involves some kind of consensus or consolidation of faiths.  It does not.  Pluralism is simply the recognition and acceptance of the diversity of faiths.  There is no need to reconcile them.

I am a humanist; my neighbour is a Christian.  He probably thinks I am doomed to an eternity in Hell, but that's my problem.  I think he is wasting his life serving an imaginary god, but that's his problem.  In the meantime, we can still be good neighbours, and maybe even good friends.  At the very least, we can still wish each other well in our separate journeys through this life.  That is pluralism.

What do you mean by "6 billion people are not allowed to touch and read the Qur'an"?  I don't know of any country where the Quran is censored or not allowed.

I am not unaware of the impossibility from the present status quo. But the moment the People of the Book understand the difference between 'Peace" and 'Facing the Ka'ba' and that 'Peace' does not necessarily imply facing the Ka'ba, that is when we can live in harmony.

The People of the Book already understand the difference.  They do not think that peace implies facing the Kaaba (in prayer).  So what do you mean?

The real geo-political fault line of our times is not Left versus Right or even West versus East, but freedom versus fundamentalism.
The Telegraph is theoretical and not practical. I AM AN INSIDER AND I AM ASSURING YOU THAT THERE IS NO FREEDOM OF ACTION IN THE MUSLIM UMMA.

Yes I know, and so does the writer in The Telegraph.  That is the point.  The struggle between freedom and fundamentalism is internal to each culture.  It exists both in the Muslim Ummah (where fundamentalism seems to have the upper hand), and in the Western world (where freedom is relatively strong but Christian fundamentalism is on the rise).  However, the fundamentalists in both societies have the common goal of provoking confrontation between the religions, as in this case.

I think (and hope) that you're being too pessimistic when you say that the forces of fundamentalism cannot be displaced.  We in the West thought that was what the "Arab Spring" was all about.  Perhaps that was wishful thinking, but I still believe that freedom and democracy are inevitable in the long run.  It may just take longer than we would like.


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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 16 September 2012 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Still not a word against the thousands (perhaps millions!) of fanatical Muslims destroying buildings and murdering their innocent occupants in cities throughout North Africa and the Middle East, eh? Disapprove Why not direct your message of "peace" to them?

<>

Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq " http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq/iraqdeaths.html -

Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq http://icasualties.org/Iraq/index.aspx - Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan: http://icasualties.org/oef/ -

Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
$1,373,424,753,393

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ - These people are so narrow-minded if you protest for your religious believe and burn up flags and a couple of people dies is a fanatical behavior, but if you kill millions of people using drones and other means, and dropping bombs on them, and destroy their country infrastructure and occupied their land to not only steal their wealth but to establish their type of religion (fundamental capitalism) it is not fanatic, it is not even worth mentioning.

Dount you think when kill so many Muslims and destroyed their country and them now attacking their system of governance to enforce your systems (fundamental capitalism) of governance would they not react with what ever means the have to get the world attention? Those people know that it is the embassy is the spy base for them.

  Br. zainool


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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 September 2012 at 1:52pm
Ron,
I did not expect your knowledge level to be this low when it comes to the reasons and who really is causing this warfare and systematic killings and destruction around the world in general and in the Islamic world in particular.
No doubt that Muslims are far from practicing their belief as they should, and that being one of the reasons for their present condition. But if you are unaware of the real causes behind what is going on "over there" please stay with that thinking of yours since exposing yourself to reality sometimes is hard on sincere hearts.
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 September 2012 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Friendship

Then forgive me. I am sure I have expressed my views that mankind is a Muslim for the Arabic word means one who submits to the Supreme Being. Probably if I call you a Muslim you will deny that. t is not an offense for the forum addresses those with faith.


To call me a Muslim would be to associate me with the mobs of rioters that are currently rampaging in cities everywhere. Unless you can agree that they are not true Muslims and do not represent Islam, then yes, at this moment I would regard it as an offense to be called a Muslim.


Then how are you going to change their attitude if you do not know what is expected from them so as to correct them by non-violent force or otherwise? Therefore the hadith of Muhammad that you fight them with the tongue is indeed what is to be done by all.


The question is not how I am going to change their attitude. The question is how are you going to change their attitude? They won't listen to me, but they might listen to you. If you think the hadith that can help you with this, then go ahead and use them; but there are also plenty of hadith and sunnah that they can use to justify their hatred and violence, as I'm sure you know.



Ron, there is nothing wrong with protesting an insult. If you were walking with your mother in a mall, and some guy insulted her, would you do anything?
So the reaction is natural and justified but what you do has to be inline with your beliefs, and of course those people have been wrong when killing innocent people and destroying property.
Can you point out to me any Hadith that you claim these people used to justify their actions for what they did?

Islam teaches justice and did so long before it came in practice here in the West, so do not associate any acts that happens "over there" as patent Islamic. And may I kindly suggest you grow out of your preconceived untrue ideas about Islam to know its true beauty and reality.
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome


Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,455,590"
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,801
Number Of International Occupation Force Troops Slaughtered In Afghanistan: 3,183
Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan?$1,373,424,753,393

I was opposed to the wars in Iraq and Aghanistan too, but what do they have to do with this video?



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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 17 September 2012 at 4:24pm

Originally posted by honeto

Ron, there is nothing wrong with protesting an insult. If you were walking with your mother in a mall, and some guy insulted her, would you do anything?

Sure I would.  I'd go attack an embassy.  Or if he's a Muslim, maybe I'd vandalize a mosque.  Disapprove

So the reaction is natural and justified but what you do has to be inline with your beliefs, and of course those people have been wrong when killing innocent people and destroying property.

They are wrong to involve innocent people at all.  And they are wrong to participate in a demonstration that they ought to know would probably turn violent.  At the very least, they are wrong to remain on the scene once the violence starts.

Can you point out to me any Hadith that you claim these people used to justify their actions for what they did?

I don't know, and I don't particularly care; but clearly they think it is justified, and that's what matters.



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Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.



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