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The hate feeling manifestation

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Politics
Forum Name: Current Events
Forum Discription: Current Events
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23729
Printed Date: 27 November 2014 at 11:54am


Topic: The hate feeling manifestation
Posted By: nothing
Subject: The hate feeling manifestation
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 5:38pm
I have read so much about the hate feeling that manifested in writings, which sometimes written openly and sometimes in disguise tones. It is incredible how can someone or some people can have such hate for people they never even met. Here at the link below is an example that has happen quite few times in the past. Discretion of other people holy book is the manifestation of hate that came from deep in the heart. I have also met those kind of people in person few times.

I think these people must encounter the feeling which I called the "inferiority complex" syndrome, kind of feeling as defenseless victim. Here this inferiority feeling manifested into rage with illogical behavior, either in speeches, writings or actions.  Yet this is the same people who boast about Love as the main teaching of their ideology. It is sad but in the same time it is true.

This girl is supposedly only 11 or 12 yo, how come she already has this hate feeling so early, what cause it and who feed it? I have 13 yo girl here and I can assure you she has no hate feeling whatsoever to anyone. Couple weeks ago she asked my permission to go to one suburb where she said her group was going to meet the Jewish community and also to feed the homeless people along the way which would take the whole day.

We heard and read way too many of this kind one after the other, way too many. They genuinely must review whatever is the teaching format they have for the moment, as something is not right here. But who has the global influence to do that? because this is so damaging to themselves, not to Islam per se.

Salaam.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/201282085643993256.html - http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/201282085643993256.html



Replies:
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 7:14pm
Seriously, nothing???  You point us toward an article about an angry mob of 500 - 600 people surrounding the  house of a girl and threatening her with bodily harm, and you want us to be concerned about her alleged "hate feeling", because she burned some paper???
Angry


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by nothing

This girl is supposedly only 11 or 12 yo, how come she already has this hate feeling so early, what cause it and who feed it? http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/201282085643993256.html - http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/08/201282085643993256.html
 
Perhaps the answer to your question is in the article; "There were also reports that the girl suffered from a mental disability, with officials saying she could not properly answer police questions."


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 10:20pm
You said it Ron.

My reaction... What is wrong with human beings... and with their minds when they want to burn another human being, let alone an 11 year old child!  Children make lots of mistakes, but they want to set her on fire?  Who has the greater mental disturbance and where does it come from?

I had an 11 year old son who "knew better" than to play with fire, yet he managed to start a fire in the woods when he was with a friend and the fire dept. had to be called.  They are children!  Things happen.  We do not kill them!


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2012 at 10:25pm
Here's a response from the same topic going on at another forum.

"These blasphemy laws are obviously open to all kinds of abuse, especially to persecute minorities.

On a side note, Pakistan seems to have a serious problem with mob rule. Every time some crime is alledged to have been committed and a culprit is identified, a mob seems to form to administer 'justice'. Here was a recent similar case, where a man was burned to death by a mob for alledgedly burning a copy of the Quran:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18713545 - http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-18713545 "

and before anyone jumps on me saying that I am biased it was posted by a member whose profile says:
  • 5,482 posts
  • Religion:Islam
  • Interests:Teaching Surah al-Noor


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 4:35am

"The 12-year-old Christian deliberately burned the Muslim holy book, some say. No, she innocently put pages from a nonsacred teaching text into the trash, say others, and nothing was burned. Still another version holds that an older Muslim boy planted pages of the Qur’an for the cleaning girl to find, and levelled the accusation of desecration because she had spurned him.

"Amid the conflicting claims, this much is certain: As many as 600 Christians have fled their colony bordering the capital, fearing for their lives, officials said, after a mob last week called for the child to be burned to death as a blasphemer. Pakistan’s president has asked his Interior Ministry to look into the case."

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1243931--pakistan-president-orders-probe-into-arrest-of-mentally-disabled-girl-on-blasphemy-charges - http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1243931--pakistan-president-orders-probe-into-arrest-of-mentally-disabled-girl-on-blasphemy-charges


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 7:07am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Seriously, nothing???  You point us toward an article about an angry mob of 500 - 600 people surrounding the  house of a girl and threatening her with bodily harm, and you want us to be concerned about her alleged "hate feeling", because she burned some paper???
Angry

If I were to go out in public and publicizing the burning of Bible or pages of it than for surely I have a motive, no? It can't be just burning paper.

Originally posted by abuayisha

Perhaps the answer to your question is in the article; "There were also reports that the girl suffered from a mental disability, with officials saying she could not properly answer police questions."

It is quick way for the confused rulers to end the drama, but I don't think she was. If I were an officer in there maybe that is what I would announce to the public: "Hey she is just crazy kid". Easy way out.

Originally posted by Caringheart

I had an 11 year old son who "knew better" than to play with fire, yet he managed to start a fire in the woods when he was with a friend and the fire dept. had to be called.  They are children!  Things happen.  We do not kill them!

I am sure you know what happened there is not child play. And of course it would be wrong to kill her, we want to know who is the driving force here that fed her with this instruction. Her parent, or teacher, or siblings, or neighbours. It has to be somebody.

Originally posted by Ron Webb

"Amid the conflicting claims, this much is certain: As many as 600 Christians have fled their colony bordering the capital, fearing for their lives, officials said, after a mob last week called for the child to be burned to death as a blasphemer. Pakistan’s president has asked his Interior Ministry to look into the case."
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1243931--pakistan-president-orders-probe-into-arrest-of-mentally-disabled-girl-on-blasphemy-charges - http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1243931--pakistan-president-orders-probe-into-arrest-of-mentally-disabled-girl-on-blasphemy-charges
 
That is sad.
If they fail to identify the culprit in this latest turmoil than their Intel section need to be reviewed from top to bottom.



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 1:19pm
I say again;
"Who has the greater mental disturbance and where does it come from?"

the one(a child) who burns a book, accidentally, or otherwise?

or the one(the adults) who burns, or even wishes to burn, a human being, let alone a child, to death, deliberately?

"How blind are their eyes!"


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by nothing

If I were to go out in public and publicizing the burning of Bible or pages of it than for surely I have a motive, no? It can't be just burning paper.

She wasn't in public, and she didn't publicize it:
"Miss Ramsha, 11, mentally retarded, daughter of Misraf Masih, was residing at Hameera abadi, sector G-8, Islamabad with a sizeable number of Christians, and was collecting used papers from the garbage for night cooking as there is no gas connections and poor people depend on burning wood. When, after sunset she was burning the copies of newspapers, collected from the garbage, a Muslim lady entered her house and started shouting that Ramsha is burning the papers from holy Quran. At that time her elder sister, Mashal, 14, was at home and her father and mother were out for their work.

"At this moment both sisters told the Muslim crowd, which was gathered after listening the shouting from Muslim lady, that the papers were from garbage and those are from newspapers but the crowd started beating them and suddenly their mother also arrived and she was also beaten. The other Christian residents also tried to settle the issue but they were beaten as well. Both sisters and her mother received injuries and in the meanwhile the owner of the house, a Muslim man, arrived and called the police in an effort to save the Christians."
http://www.humanrights.asia/news/urgent-appeals/AHRC-UAC-146-2012 - http://www.humanrights.asia/news/urgent-appeals/AHRC-UAC-146-2012

I'm not saying the above account is entirely unbiased either, but think about it for a moment.  Is it really credible to believe that a twelve year old Christian girl would publicly burn the Quran in such a hostile neighbourhood?  Is it even likely that she could read Arabic, let alone know what was on the papers?

All of which is irrelevant anyway.  There is nothing in the Quran that forbids the burning of a copy of the Quran, whether deliberately or accidentally.  In fact as I understand it this is the proper way to dispose of them.  And even if she deliberately burned the Quran, with the conscious intent to insult Islam, so what???  Is your religion so lacking in self-confidence that you even need to care what a Christian thinks?

If you really want to know where "hate feelings" come from, I can tell you.  They come from angry mobs who attack Christian girls for imaginary crimes -- and from apologists who defend such horrors.  And yes, this is damaging to Islam.



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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

There is nothing in the Quran that forbids the burning of a copy of the Quran, whether deliberately or accidentally.  In fact as I understand it this is the proper way to dispose of them. 

And even if she deliberately burned the Quran, with the conscious intent to insult Islam, so what??? 

If you really want to know where "hate feelings" come from, I can tell you.  They come from angry mobs who attack Christian girls for imaginary crimes -- and from apologists who defend such horrors.  And yes, this is damaging to Islam.

 
Good points Ron.  I had forgotten that I had earlier researched and learned that the proper way to dispose of a Qur'an is by burning.
 
And yes, even if it is done as an insult... have not all God's people been insulted throughout history?  And hasn't all scripture said to be prepared for this?  Does God, all powerful, need us to take offense for Him?  Has He not the power to punish?
 
All these are simply excuses to hate... and hate is not from God.
Even the qur'an I believe says to return evil with good, not evil for evil.


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Is it really credible to believe that a twelve year old Christian girl would publicly burn the Quran in such a hostile neighbourhood?

Did not I cast a doubt from the beginning? Somebody else whoever they are has to be the driving force. My 13 yo does not think that way than why should she?

Is it even likely that she could read Arabic, let alone know what was on the papers?

Capable to read Arabic is still possible because just like Iran they use Arabic letters too, but I doubt she knows Arabic language.

Btw let see what else where this came from from the link you provided:

When, after sunset she was burning the copies of newspapers, collected from the garbage, a Muslim lady entered her house and started shouting that Ramsha is burning the papers from holy Quran.

By right the unidentified "muslim lady" is the source here, there was nobody else. Than the mob dutifully arrived executing her call. Whatever happen before or after is from her, as the deciding factor. If I were the police that "unidentified person" would be the person of interest before "she" disappeared. She in all sudden start shouting without even ask first? If she was a neighbor than there is no reason for a neighbor to do that. The Islamic injunction the next door neighbor is closer than distant family. Or, was she just someone who by accident was there and enter the house?

But this report which came from AHRC is not even certain, hopefully this is it though, because this is where we can see the culprit. The rest are just by product which they can be dealt separately. The rest irrelevant until they found the unidentified "muslim lady" above. So who was she?


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 21 August 2012 at 7:04pm
Sure, let's ignore the hundreds of thugs in the street howling for blood, and the thousands who cheer them on.  Let's forget about the alarming number of fundamentalists in Pakistan who support this evil blasphemy law, and the hypocrites who use it to oppress minorities for their own profit.  Most of all, pay no attention to the millions of Muslims around the world who turn a blind eye to the corruption within their own religion and the atrocities committed in their name, choosing instead to talk about the "hate feelings" of non-Muslims.  No, let's just focus on this one "muslim lady"... Ermm

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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 August 2012 at 9:05pm
The Muslim discussion on another forum has a very different tone than the Muslim tone here.

I would also share this article relative to what is happening in the Muslim world today.
Wafa Sultan is a Syrian-born psychiatrist who immigrated to the U.S. in 1989. She is most well-known for appearing on Al-Jazeera in 2006 in a debate with sheikh Ibrahim Al-Khouli, when she delivered a memorable attack on Islam (which has since caused her to live in hiding). She just released a new book, entitled A God Who Hates. On October 20, Dr. Sultan addressed the Middle East Forum via conference call.
Islam is intrinsically destructive—that is Dr. Sultan's message. She began by discussing how she came about this conclusion, which is the story of her largely autobiographical book.
In her view, the Muslim world needs reform in three areas: Muslim nations must 1) grant their citizens the right to practice any—or no—faith; 2) they must reform school curricula, which currently teach intolerance and hatred for non-Muslims; 3) they must grant equal rights to women and eliminate the oppression Muslim women currently experience.
 while she accepts that there are "moderate Muslims," she insists that Islam itself is not and cannot be moderate. Still, she hopes that those who are trying to reform Islam will one day prove her wrong.
Muslims will sooner or later have to confront the reality of Islam's "cruel" and "backwards" teachings.
She concluded by asserting her dream—that one day her native Syria will be as free as the United States.
Full article here:
http://www.meforum.org/2488/the-muslim-world-needs-reform


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:37am
Wafa Sultan
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/01/wafa-sultan-meets-intelligent-person-and-gets-flabbergasted/ -


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 5:34pm
Ad hominem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
 
Tongue
 
My own reaction to Wafa Sultan is that she is her own worst enemy.  She opposes violence and extremism, but then proceeds to declare that the extremists are correct in their interpretation of Islam, and the moderates are wrong!  Whose side is she on, anyway?  Does she really want to convince the moderates that the only way to be a true Muslim is to become an extremist?
 
IMHO she is probably right if you include the hadith and sunna as eternal commandments from God, but http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23688 - as I said recently I don't believe that was ever Muhammad's intention.  Muhammad was a secular leader and a man of his time, which was a violent time indeed; but Muhammad made it quite clear that he did not want his own words and deeds to be written down and kept alongside the Quran.
 
The hadith and sunna were supposed to fade with time and become increasingly irrelevant, as do all things secular.  Instead, almost from the beginning Muslims have sought to treat them as coming from the same timeless source as the Quran, and thus have made Muhammad's authority of the same nature as Allah's.  In short, they have commited shirk.  That's how I see it.


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

Wafa Sultan
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/01/wafa-sultan-meets-intelligent-person-and-gets-flabbergasted/ -
 
My fair judgement as the discussion began was that it matters which 'Muslim' you are talking about.  Culture is a huge factor in how islam is practiced.
 
Ibrahim's view that the Islam he follows is "not an Islam that sees itself  exclusively as a revelation that can not co-exist with people of other faiths" ... is not the islam that is in the Qur'an.  That is the message that Wafa wants to get across.  She hopes against hope that Islam can be reformed, but like me, does not see how as long as the people who follow it truly believe that the Qur'an is the instruction of God, or allah. 
 
Ibrahim speaks very much as an American and a person who is used to freedom and he does not really think about what is in his scriptures... like most people.  So yes, the way he is used to practicing Islam is acceptable... but is it true Islam or an evolved form of the religion.  Wafa has stated that if the religion can reform itself then that would be good, but one would have to reject certain things in the Qur'an much the same way humans have evolved past the old testament dictates.
 
Wafa reiterates that she does not have a problem with Muslims... those who are used to practicing in freedom... it is Islam that she disagrees with.  Which I think is how most of the free world feels.  When freedom is allowed, being a Muslim is fine... it is different for a Muslim who does not live where there is freedom.  It is this that she does not want to see spread around the world.
 
Both men treat Wafa condescendingly.  Yet, she is the one who has lived it.  She is the one who has lived under Islamic rule and knows what was taught under that rule.  She is one who knows the real, full history of Muhammad without denial, because it is her history, of her country.  I find the attitude of the host very insulting.
 
... and just love the way blame is always thrown back at the west.
 
[Edit:  After reading others comments I don't know what to think.  Like I said, it is quite obviously not an unbiased site, so who can say what is true.  I still understand the points Wafa makes, just from reading the Qur'an, and the history of Muhammad from both sides, myself.  Like I always say, Do research... dig deeper, into many sources.  It is diffucult to get a handle on truth.]


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:59pm
Wafa Sultan is a courageous woman and an inspiration to oppressed Muslim women in particular; but she is not a good debater, at least not in English.  (She may do better in her native language.)  I agree with much of what you said, Caringheart, but I have to admit that irritated me most was Sultan's combativeness and her constant interruptions, often for no particular purpose that I could see..
 
I did notice that Ibrahim failed to directly respond to many of the criticisms that were made against Islam.  Right at the outset, for instance, he dodges Sura 9:5 with a rambling statement that ends with "it's very easy to take those passages and conflate them into a general feeling that Islam is violent, and I would challenge that assertion."  Okay, so go ahead in challenge it!  But he never did.  That is the kind of thing that Sultan should have pressed him on, but she never did.  All in all, a disappointing performance on both sides.  (IMHO of course.)


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:59pm

(sorry, duplicate post)



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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 August 2012 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Wafa Sultan is a courageous woman and an inspiration to oppressed Muslim women in particular; but she is not a good debater, at least not in English.  (She may do better in her native language.)  I agree with much of what you said, Caringheart, but I have to admit that irritated me most was Sultan's combativeness and her constant interruptions, often for no particular purpose that I could see..
 
I did notice that Ibrahim failed to directly respond to many of the criticisms that were made against Islam.  Right at the outset, for instance, he dodges Sura 9:5 with a rambling statement that ends with "it's very easy to take those passages and conflate them into a general feeling that Islam is violent, and I would challenge that assertion."  Okay, so go ahead in challenge it!  But he never did.  That is the kind of thing that Sultan should have pressed him on, but she never did.  All in all, a disappointing performance on both sides.  (IMHO of course.)
 
"she is not a good debater..."
I would say that she is passionate... some would say 'emotional', but I can understand her passion.  This is not something that distracts me from her points, however it would some people.
 
"All in all, a disappointing performance on both sides"
I agree.
 


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Both men treat Wafa condescendingly.  Yet, she is the one who has lived it.  She is the one who has lived under Islamic rule and knows what was taught under that rule.  She is one who knows the real, full history of Muhammad without denial, because it is her history, of her country.

Really? You are talking about Syria here right?.
I start have feeling it approaches the kind of "Forbidden love" the true story by Norma Khouri.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Love_%28novel%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Love_%28novel%29

Originally posted by Ron Webb

I did notice that Ibrahim failed to directly respond to many of the criticisms that were made against Islam.  Right at the outset, for instance, he dodges Sura 9:5 with a rambling statement that ends with "it's very easy to take those passages and conflate them into a general feeling that Islam is violent, and I would challenge that assertion."  Okay, so go ahead in challenge it!  But he never did.(IMHO of course.)

He was right though considering there are verses 1-5 before it, and 6-13 after it as a context. Than there are 115 verses more right after verse 13. It is  irresponsible to isolate a verse to use it for attacking. But she is a psychiatrist so it must have been thought out thoroughly as the right thing to do.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 5:00pm
FYI nothing -- it was the moderator, not Sultan, who quoted sura 9:5.

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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 7:39pm
"He was right though considering there are verses 1-5 before it, and 6-13 after it as a context. Than there are 115 verses more right after verse 13. It is irresponsible to isolate a verse to use it for attacking. But she is a psychiatrist so it must have been thought out thoroughly as the right thing to do. "
 
I have read it.  The context changes nothing.  In fact it only adds to its treachery.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 8:18pm
As I understand it, the context of Sura 9:5 is a discussion of how to deal with enemies who have already agreed to a truce, and then proceed to break that truce.  Such people cannot be trusted and there is no point in trying to negotiate or accommodate.  IMHO it's a reasonable point of view.
 
As I've said before, I can defend most of what I find in the Quran.  It is the hadith that do not belong in a modern religion.


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

As I understand it, the context of Sura 9:5 is a discussion of how to deal with enemies who have already agreed to a truce, and then proceed to break that truce.  Such people cannot be trusted and there is no point in trying to negotiate or accommodate.  IMHO it's a reasonable point of view.
 
As I've said before, I can defend most of what I find in the Quran.  It is the hadith that do not belong in a modern religion.


That's not how it reads to me at all.  It is an entirely slanderous passage about how no non-muslim can be trusted and that you only have to honor your treaties with them until the holy days are over.  Then you can treat them as the scum that they are.
That's how it reads to me.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 8:20am

"Explaining the context of this verse, Quranic Scholars (Muhammad Asad and Muhammad Ali) explain that the permission to fight and kill is being given regarding specific tribes already at war with the Muslims who have breached their peace agreements and have attacked the Muslims first."
(Read more at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_5 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_5 .)

I have the Yusuf Ali translation, which includes a more detailed commentary.  Ali explains that this Sura is a logical extension of the previous one (Sura 8).  In fact, Muhammad directed that it was to "follow" Sura 8, and whether he meant that it formed part of that Sura or whether it forms a separate Sura was not completely clear.

In any case, they are now generally regarded as separate Suras; but Ali maintains that Sura 9 must be read in the context of Sura 8.  Sura 8 deals (among other things) with the formation of alliances and treaties with other nations.  Sura 9 therefore explains what is to be done when those alliances break down and the other nations refuse to abide by them.

Whatever.  This is not my religion, so "I have no dog in this race", as the saying goes.  What I don't understand is why so many non-Muslims and people like Sultan insist on the more extreme interpretation of such passages when there are plenty of credible Muslim scholars who offer a more benign explanation.  Like I said, whose side are they on?  They should be arguing against the extremists, shouldn't they?

It's not like we (non-Muslims) can say that one interpretation or the other is objectively "true" or that Allah intended it one way or the other, because we don't believe any of it anyway.  Why not support those scholars who are trying to make Islam compatible with modernity?



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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 4:02pm
How can this be correct when the surah's are arranged according to length... not in the order in which they were revealed?

I get your point...
IF, Islam can evolve... that is the big question to be determined and being addressed.


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 25 August 2012 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

How can this be correct when the surah's are arranged according to length... not in the order in which they were revealed?
Not necessarily.  Wikipedia knows all Wink, but nobody knows the reason why Allah ordered the suras as He did:
 
Suras in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. Amin Ahsan Islahi says that the order of revelation has no significance for the present times, and the present arrangement is divinely ordained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura


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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.


Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 26 August 2012 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Not necessarily.  Wikipedia knows all Wink, but nobody knows the reason why Allah ordered the suras as He did:
 
Suras in the Quran are not arranged in the chronological order of revelation. Amin Ahsan Islahi says that the order of revelation has no significance for the present times, and the present arrangement is divinely ordained.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura


I think I do. To me this method is one of few ways to avoid tampering. I found few of them and I have placed one in the below website. I was just too lazy to continue when it comes to count the letters. But still I found quite few as well where the letters also used to protect the book.

Maybe you have seen this or the kind like one, but this is definitely my works.

http://www.freewebs.com/nothing-ness/numbersinquran.htm - http://www.freewebs.com/nothing-ness/numbersinquran.htm


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 27 August 2012 at 4:07pm

Well, this is a refreshing development:

Pakistan's conservative mullahs question blasphemy law

ISLAMABAD — A group of Islamic leaders in Pakistan lent strong support Monday to a mentally disabled Christian girl accused of blasphemy in an unprecedented public move that was the first denunciation by hard-line mullahs of the country's controversial blasphemy law.

The All Pakistan Ulema Council, an umbrella group of Muslim clerics and scholars that includes representatives from fundamentalist groups, joined hands with the Pakistan Interfaith League - which includes Christians, Sikhs and practitioners of other religions - to call for understanding for the girl, who's been identified only as Rimsha. They also demanded that those making false allegations of blasphemy be punished.

Tahir Ashrafi, the chairman of the Ulema Council, warned that it was the "law of the jungle" when angry mobs routinely pressured police to file blasphemy charges, as happened in the case of Rimsha, who her family says is 11 years old and suffering from Down syndrome.Rimsha was charged earlier this month with desecrating the Quran.

...
"We see Rimsha as a test case for Pakistan's Muslims, Pakistan's minorities and for the government," Ashrafi told a news conference in Islamabad. "We don't want to see injustice done with anyone. We will work to end this climate of fear. The accusers should be proceeded against with full force, so that no one would dare make spurious allegations."

...
"This is the first time in the history of Pakistan that Muslim community and scholars have stood up for non-Muslims," said Sajid Ishaq, the chairman of the Pakistan Interfaith League. "We are together, demanding justice, demanding an unbiased investigation."

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/08/27/2664353/pakistans-conservative-mullahs.html#storylink=cpy - http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2012/08/27/2664353/pakistans-conservative-mullahs.html#storylink=cpy

My only question is, where were these guys when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Taseer - Salmaan Taseer was murdered?



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Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.



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