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Disappointed

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Comments & Complaints
Forum Discription: Comments & Complaints
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23388
Printed Date: 22 October 2014 at 1:00am


Topic: Disappointed
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: Disappointed
Date Posted: 26 June 2012 at 2:56pm
I am disappointed to see that many of my posts, which I put a great deal of time and thought into, have been deleted, so this is obviously not a forum for open discussion but rather a censored media.  I am disappointed that I can not find any site to have discussion with Muslims that is open to expression of all thoughts and sharing of all information to allow individuals to reach their own conclusions.  The Bereans were commended for always seeking the Truth in all things so they might know that they belong to the One God.

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

I find it enlightening to observe the constant need for this censoring which you do not find in all places.  Some do not fear to have the truth tested.

It is hard to learn about another person when open discussion of views, news, and events, is disallowed.

There is a quote that I often cite:
"People with nothing to hide, hide nothing."



Replies:
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 7:17am
Haven't seen any of the posts that got deleted, so am not sure what vauchafed the moderation.
 
It may be a chagrin you are not able to voice your thoughts as you may please.
 
Ive heard, when in Rome, act like Romans do. Im not asking you to be like muslims, but try to learn what might offend them, then ask your Qs in a manner which is devoid of such offenses ... for the sake of knowledge (and truth) one might want to go to any lengths (?)
 
Ive personally discussed my religion with many non-muslims here but on occaisions have deleted posts from several others, so surely there is a criterion being followed.
 
Keep posting and posting till you succeed :)
 
Good luck!
 


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 9:24am
I've been around a few Social Networking Sites (SNS) and what I've found is that the powers be always delete topics that are considered to be controversial and they like topics that are 'safe'. In my opinon, there is no harm in debating all topics if they are debated sensibly and in a civilised way.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 June 2012 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by Nausheen


 
Keep posting and posting till you succeed :)
 
Good luck!
 


Thank you for the encouragement.
It is difficult when Truth is offensive.
I was simply discussing the truth of apostasy and that it is an offense that is being punished by death even to this day.
I had taken a lot of time and put in the research to make sure I was not speaking off the cuff and offensively.  That is why I find it so discouraging, that truth can not be discussed openly, and that something that I had put so much time and thought into could be so wantonly deleted.  I was in the middle of a discussion with another person, now half of that discussion is gone.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by Caringheart




It is difficult when Truth is offensive.
 
Not necessarily the truth in and of itself is offensive. It could be that the truth per se poses no problem, however the manner in which it is presented could be read as a breach of ettiquette (always have a hard time spelling this).
For instance, Ive been in Japan for the past 15 years, but am still offended everytime someone asks my age - however for the japanese its just asking a plain question {they are asking for a plain truth}. - if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Caringheart

I was simply discussing the truth of apostasy and that it is an offense that is being punished by death even to this day.
 
The Chinease say there are three kinds of truth : your truth, my truth and our truth.
 
Perhaps why we have discussions, debates, arguments and fights is because onmany of these occassions we are focusing on a different 'type' truth than the opposite party.
If we bear in mind the Chinease definition of truth, we will know that 'the' truth for each one of us is seldom same.
 
Religion and secular matters cannot be discussed in the same spirit.
 
eg. if you not agree with me on a scientific theory, I might not be offended by 'your' truth.
 
However if the case is religion, the truth which you want to present - which at the same time is undermining 'my' truth may be undermining the truth which I believe to be a truth from 'my' God.
Thus, 'your' truth when presented callously can end up hurting many feelings, thereby,   not winning you a desirable audiance.  
Please ponder over Lamp


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Originally posted by Caringheart




It is difficult when Truth is offensive.
 
Not necessarily the truth in and of itself is offensive. It could be that the truth per se poses no problem, however the manner in which it is presented could be read as a breach of ettiquette (always have a hard time spelling this).
For instance, Ive been in Japan for the past 15 years, but am still offended everytime someone asks my age - however for the japanese its just asking a plain question {they are asking for a plain truth}. - if you know what I mean.

Originally posted by Caringheart

I was simply discussing the truth of apostasy and that it is an offense that is being punished by death even to this day.
 
The Chinease say there are three kinds of truth : your truth, my truth and our truth.
 
Perhaps why we have discussions, debates, arguments and fights is because onmany of these occassions we are focusing on a different 'type' truth than the opposite party.
If we bear in mind the Chinease definition of truth, we will know that 'the' truth for each one of us is seldom same.
 
Religion and secular matters cannot be discussed in the same spirit.
 
eg. if you not agree with me on a scientific theory, I might not be offended by 'your' truth.
 
However if the case is religion, the truth which you want to present - which at the same time is undermining 'my' truth may be undermining the truth which I believe to be a truth from 'my' God.
Thus, 'your' truth when presented callously can end up hurting many feelings, thereby,   not winning you a desirable audiance.  
Please ponder over Lamp


Thank you for your humble message.  I do appreciate it.

Tao -
truth -
I agree it is seldom the same.
This is the reason I have a problem with Islam.
Islam refuses to accept any truth but its own and at the threat of death.
I say let each have his own truth and answer to his own God.
Only God in the end determines whose truth is correct.
In the meantime it is good to challenge one another to be sure we are following the One Truth.
In conversations with Muslims my truth is attacked all the time, and though offensive, I do not take offense. 
I only share my Truth, my God.  I am secure in my Truth.  I can only answer offensive attacks with my Truth as my God has shown it to me, and do it in love.
I believe God wants all to be saved.  On the day of judgement we will know whether or not we are.  In the meantime I believe we each need to be, indeed are meant to be(given free will by God), free to seek our own path.



Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:19pm

Caringheart: "Islam refuses to accept any truth but its own and at the threat of death."

In Islam, there is no compulsion in religion. It has already been explained to you in another thread http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306 - Muslim Women and 'Canadian Values'.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306&PN=7

Please ask your questions in “Islam for non-Muslim section” or discuss religious issues in details in the “Interfaith section.” I suggest you read the guidelines in entirety and comply with:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&FID=30&PR=3 - Also, if you have any concern, please post it in the Comment & Complaint section.

Peace




-------------
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by peacemaker

Caringheart: "Islam refuses to accept any truth but its own and at the threat of death."

In Islam, there is no compulsion in religion. It has already been explained to you in another thread http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306 - Muslim Women and 'Canadian Values'.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22306&PN=7

Please ask your questions in “Islam for non-Muslim section” or discuss religious issues in details in the “Interfaith section.” I suggest you read the guidelines in entirety and comply with:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&FID=30&PR=3 - Also, if you have any concern, please post it in the Comment & Complaint section.

Peace




I am not asking a question.  I am having a conversation with an entirely different person than I was before and on an entirely different subject.  So you do make it very difficult and confusing to have conversations with people.  I am meaning no disrespect, and in fact half of my conversation with that other person disappeared which I feel was quite disrespectful tome since I had put alot of time and energy and research into that conversation.  I know it is your forum and I consider myself to be a very considerate, respectful, and compliant person.  It is just very difficult here to engage in any kind of meaningful discussion when that discussion is always being interrupted, or moved, or discontinued, for reasons unexplained.  I do not know if you will have an objection to my responding to you here or not but I think it would be confusing to move to the complaint section when you have addressed me here. 
I was going to try to write to you in the complaint section but it will be easier to share all this here.  I hope this will be ok with you because, as you will read, I work on a dinosaur of a computer and it is not so easy to begin with.

Not a complaint, but more of an observation or a request;
I must say, it is hard to know if a posting has been deleted, or just never posted, if the moderator does not notify, with a reason, that a post is being deleted or refused.  I personally have a dinosaur for a computer and things do get lost entirely on their own.  Also it would be helpful to mutual understanding if reasons were given.  I try not to write anything deliberately offensive but only facts which I have researched and studied both sides of.  I seek only understanding and as I have said I am a considerate person.

I think it is beneficial when all can be allowed enlightenment.
Thanking you for patience.


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:53pm
and I just realized we are in the complaint section...


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I've been around a few Social Networking Sites (SNS) and what I've found is that the powers be always delete topics that are considered to be controversial and they like topics that are 'safe'. In my opinon, there is no harm in debating all topics if they are debated sensibly and in a civilised way.


Agreed.
Thank you.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

The Chinease say there are three kinds of truth : your truth, my truth and our truth.
 


Just wanted to note that the 'truth' in this case were news articles.  Not my truth, but the news as it was reported in the country from which it stemmed.  It is when that kind of truth is suppressed that I find it disturbing.  I think it serves no good purpose when facts are hidden.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



Thank you for your humble message.  I do appreciate it.
 
Dear Caringheart,
 
You are most welcome. I come here couple of times per year and stay for a while, as time permits.  will try to address your general concerns about muslims - and if you don't mind will not touch the deeper issues like religion.

Originally posted by Caringheart


Tao -
truth -
I agree it is seldom the same.
This is the reason I have a problem with Islam.
 
Why do you have a problem with that? Everybody is like that. They accept their truth, but not of others.  Would you accept my truth? If not, then why should I accept yours?
 
See, this is what causes disparity.
Instead, we have to look for ways to make the truth 'our' truth!

Originally posted by Caringheart

Islam refuses to accept any truth but its own and at the threat of death.
 
Like Peacemaker pointed out to you - we dont have any problem with anyone following anything. Just that we will have a problem if someone tells us to follow their truth of life. 
I dont want to drink alcohol or consume pork. I want to wear a hijab. I want to pray 5 times a day. This does not mean I want YOU to do the same.
I have no problem what-so-ever if you do not want to do this. However, if you tell me not to do any of this, I will surely have a problem, and I will not accept your opinion in this matter as correct.
Is this what you would regard as I not accepting THE truth?
 
I dont think not having to pray 5 times a day is THE truth. I think it is 'your' truth and you can choose it for yourself. However it is not 'my' truth and I will not accept you to choose it for me.

Originally posted by Caringheart

I say let each have his own truth and answer to his own God.
Only God in the end determines whose truth is correct.
 
sure.

Originally posted by Caringheart

In the meantime it is good to challenge one another to be sure we are following the One Truth.
 
No problem

Originally posted by Caringheart

In conversations with Muslims my truth is attacked all the time, and though offensive, I do not take offense.
 
In my humble opinion, if you were a sensitive type and would have taken offense, you would have known where others might take offense as well.
That would help you bridge the gap - a bit.

Originally posted by Caringheart

I only share my Truth, my God.  I am secure in my Truth.  I can only answer offensive attacks with my Truth as my God has shown it to me, and do it in love.
I believe God wants all to be saved.  On the day of judgement we will know whether or not we are.  In the meantime I believe we each need to be, indeed are meant to be(given free will by God), free to seek our own path.

 
Yes, I agree with you. God wants all of us to be saved. If we are right or wrong will be proven on the judgement day.
meanwhile we should challenge each other ... all of this is from the Quran.
 
This truth is 'our' truth :)
 
Now, if you have a listening ear for me, trust me, all of what you said was okay, accept one comment ...
 
"Islam refuses to accept any truth but its own and at the threat of death."
 
This is not true. Not just that, this is a challenge. i have not read too many of your challenges, however, this one is an offensive challenge. If you had said : islam refuses any truth but its own - and full stop - I would have had no problem agreeing with you. However, the later part is not true, according to what I know of my religion. This not just a challenge to me, its an offensive challenge.
Ask me why? Because, you are telling me that my religion commands to kill anyone who does not pray, who drinks alcohol, who worships idols, who fornicate, who do XYZ ...
This is not true!! my religion does not do this. So, either you ask if Islam is like this or not, or you don't say say things which are not true to our belief with authority. Please. - Have this little bit of discretion and perhaps you can find friends amongst us.
 
 
 


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 02 July 2012 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

and I just realized we are in the complaint section...
 
Smile Yes we are. Complaining to each other about our respective truths ... LOL!!
 
Do you want to go somewhere else?


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 03 July 2012 at 12:00am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Nausheen

The Chinease say there are three kinds of truth : your truth, my truth and our truth.
 


Just wanted to note that the 'truth' in this case were news articles.  Not my truth, but the news as it was reported in the country from which it stemmed.  It is when that kind of truth is suppressed that I find it disturbing.  I think it serves no good purpose when facts are hidden.
 
Reminds me an old joke.
 
Once someone died and met God in Heaven. While he was conversing with Him, a red beeper went off for a split second ... he asked what that meant - God said this indicates someone just lied.
 
Then it went off again and again ...
 
then suddenly too frequently for a long span of time. This man got confused, 'now, what is this?'
 
He was told this is British Broadcasting Service going on air !!
 
Tongue 
 
Yeah, I agree with you, new items should be reported AND correctly. It is our right to know unabridged,  unanalysed truth.
 
Sadly, I dont trust the media services. Do you?
 
 


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: lady
Date Posted: 03 July 2012 at 5:22am
Assalaamoalaikum Nausheen. 
Smile
I really enjoyed this post of yours.  You make me want to read all of your 3903 posts.
Ps,  I am not a stalker, just an admirer. Wink


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 July 2012 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

Originally posted by Caringheart

and I just realized we are in the complaint section...
 
Smile Yes we are. Complaining to each other about our respective truths ... LOL!!
 
Do you want to go somewhere else?


LOL  lol
I was responding to the administrator who was telling me to take this conversation to the complaint section.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 08 July 2012 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by lady

Assalaamoalaikum Nausheen. 
Smile
I really enjoyed this post of yours.  You make me want to read all of your 3903 posts.
Ps,  I am not a stalker, just an admirer. Wink
 
Thank you dear Lady.
 
However, let me warn you, I might not be as interesting in all of those postsEmbarrassed,  so read at your own risk  Tongue
 
 


-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 July 2012 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Nausheen

 
Tongue 
 
Yeah, I agree with you, new items should be reported AND correctly. It is our right to know unabridged,  unanalysed truth.
 
Sadly, I dont trust the media services. Do you?
 


Hi Nausheen,
I just saw that I had overlooked this.  I remember seeing it the other day.

No, it seems impossible to know who or what to trust.  That is why I come to the forums... seeking to find people who are really there.  Or at least to dispel false notions of those receiving propagandized reports.  If we can compare our truths we will see that none of us really knows all.



Posted By: jeff2012
Date Posted: 03 September 2012 at 2:56pm
You say it is hard to believe that the truth is offensive. However, the truth from your perspective is likely not the truth for others who come from a different perspective.

From a logical stand point, the "truth" can only be something that is universally true regardless where in the universe you come from or are located. Thus, almost nothing in this world can be considered the "truth" from a logical point of view.

So, just because you feel you are speaking the truth, from your perspective, do not be too harsh on others for not seeing it as the truth. Others may see what you say as a distortion of the truth or even an insult of sorts. It is more likely that you are stating your opinion, not a universal truth.

Certain opinions are not valued depending on where they are expressed. Try to find a forum where your opinions are valued my friend. I wish you well.


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 03 September 2012 at 6:01pm
Jeff,  Assalamu alaikum,  welcome aboard!



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