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Gender Segregation

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Culture & Community
Forum Name: Groups Men (Brothers)
Forum Discription: Groups Men (Brothers)
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2175
Printed Date: 18 April 2014 at 3:00pm


Topic: Gender Segregation
Posted By: Israfil
Subject: Gender Segregation
Date Posted: 03 September 2005 at 11:39pm

One of the things that has bothered me here (and abroad) is that our community is segregated. Not in the sense of who goes where i the mosque or how one should conduct themselves in regards to approaching another sex. That is not my point. My point is that in many cases here as I've seen that we propagate the seperation of men in women in terms of knowledge. Now, there are many arguments for such a seperation but how many men can say they have knowledge of what Muslimah's are in the world, I mean the knowledge of the worth of women or men?

It's probably me and my "western" ideas but I tend to think our lack of understanding of the sexes is what leads to our downfall as people sometimes.

Well anyway I'm done babbling wont be here much longer




Replies:
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 04 September 2005 at 11:17pm

I think that is called

C  U  L  T  U  R  E

 

 

Lameese



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 4:44pm
Lameese is there every a word in which sarcasm does not not emit from it?


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:34pm

Israfil,

Is there ever a time when you want to hear the truth?

 

 



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:39pm
Since it is culture to which culture are you referring?


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:46pm

Originally posted by Israfil

Since it is culture to which culture are you referring?

 

Re-read your question. How could you not know to whom's culture I was refering?



Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 05 September 2005 at 5:50pm
I did and I answered my own question


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 07 September 2005 at 10:26pm

  http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm006YYCA">Girl Vs Boy   http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm006YYCA -

 

Good arguments folks ... I enjoyed the thread so far  

I had this angry attitude towards men some years ago, and most of it had to do with lack of and/or wrong knowledge about them. It was not culture, or exposure. I think most of it had to do with  observations and presumptions which I had some how come to over simplify and genralize.

I guess the same over simplification can be true the other way round, ie of men doing it for women.

In Islamic culture and deen it is not correct (or wisdom) to take interest in opposite gender to the level of an individual , however there is no clause for not studying the opposite gender in order to understand them. This infact benfits both men and women to treat their spouses better, and raise their kids.

Maa salaama,

Nausheen



-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 08 September 2005 at 4:50pm
As'Salaamu Alaikum Sister Nausheen!

Sister Nausheen with all due respect to your great wisdom I'd
have to disagree. I believe it is with culture. as I can recall an
incident with an ex-coworker of mine (who by the way is Gay)
while working in the hospital delivering food to patients went
into the room of a Muslim man and was shunned away
because he was male. Mind you my ex-cowrker friend is
homosexual and wondered why he was shunned from
delivering food to the husbands wife. No surprise he latter put
up a sign and said no males!

Similar incident with me when I spoke to another Muslimah with
small talk and a greeting. Because of course i'm American I
stuck my hand out and said: "Nice to meet you!" not knowing if
she was married. She shyed away and just said "As'Salaamu
Alaikum" Of course I knew then she had to be married of course
but my intention was not to speak to her in a personal matter
but I used American custom to greet her.

I understand that in Islam there is a conscious divide between
men and women and that this divide is prescribe to maintain
the modesty between both parties. but as i understand how this
is interpreted and acted out appears to be culturally motivated,
not Quranic. As I understand of Arab men there is a sense of
macho pride and the protection of their women. As I understand
of some Arabic women there is a sense of shyness, small talk
(or no talk) and quiet submission to their husbands.

I understand how one acts depends on how one is raised but
the important thing to note here is that our Ummah is hyper-
genderized. Women over here and men over there. Even in
some societies its men in the front, women and children in the
back., even while driving in the car!

From my experience even with the amount of time of being a
revert I can say that Muslim women really do not know much
about men except through visual observation and/personal
contact with family members (or strangers)/. The same can be
said for men. For those who are religious its impossible to know
the opposite sex truly. Even if you say marriage can give you
an impression I say it gives a small impression. The man you
marry is not the same as the man I am., or the same as Ahmed
or Ishaq or Israfil or zayd.

Your man (or women) accounts as an individual and the
knowledge you obtain from that individual is not the general
impression of the sex. To get a general impression of the sex
you have to encounter (perhaps personally on a cordial basis
of course) various individuals. You can do this visually without
greeting perople but the full impression has to include both the
'audio and vocal' as my speech professor used to say.



Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 09 September 2005 at 10:18am

I think it is about a resonable balance. The world is complex. And there needs to limitiations but the reality is that genders will mix especially at work.  The goal of hijab is to have modesty so women can be hassle free. If men and women cannot even  have a dialogue then how can women be seen as intelligent people? Otherwise we areseen as 'women' and something 'different'.

I remember having long discussions about this with a dear friend. Asking him about the gender 'seperation' that I could not relate to-I have no problem with not sleeping with the men I know. And he said that many people just go the wrong way with it, they cannot control themselves. And the rules are there to guide the majority of people.

It does make sense. Ireally do not want anyone touching my hands. Skaing hands is cultural yes. But there is something awkward about it. Plus there is a boundary issue. I want no strange man to touch me. Never did, even before I became a Moslem. That may be just a personal thing. Having traveled to  a predominantly Moslem culture it was nice to have my boundaries respected there. No touching by people I do not know. Friendly and cordial yet.. but no invasion of space.

The wife in the hospital. Frankly it can be awkward if you are not used to having other men around you. Particularly in a hosptial one is vulnerable not just physically but emotionally.

Women in many facets of their lives deal with some men who use subtle ways of intimidations upon them. Of course not all men, but of course there are a few bad eggs in every basket.

 

 

 



-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 11 September 2005 at 3:27pm
Hafya there is a difference in approach of course, but the point here is that Muslim women truly do not know "men" and the same with us men. When it comes to knowledge the only knowledge is through marriage, but that knowledge does not provide a general impression of men it only provides the individual impression. As Sister Nausheen mentions her inital assertion of men was negative due to "experience" now for the Muslim man the goal is to extinguish this notion. Of course now the sister thinks differently but the point is the world sees a Muslim man as negative due to other cultures. All men are different even those bad eggs. Every man has their own way of expressing themselves. I believe the goal here is to learn from each other. Modesty in Islam is important. There is nothing here arguing against that, but its the knowledge o both men and women is what I'm addressing here.


Posted By: Brother123
Date Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:40am

Sister Hafya. why would women need to speak to men to be seen as being intelligent?

Inteligance does not come from a women speaking to a man. Thats called inferiority complex.

An intelligent women is women who knows that intelignece is not related to speaking to men.

This is what the kaffirs in the west have brain washed the women and even teh men. That a intellgent and strong women is one who is rough and tough like a man and wont stand for segragation. Two things come from this. They are saying your a women and not like a man who is strong and tough so you are inferior. and they wanty women there for their lusts so they drive them to think mixing in worksplace is how they will achieve streanth and inteligence.

Its quite intersting  what you said though. Just goes to show how much work is needed to undo their brain washing of the their population masses.

And we can do this quite eaisly.  And save the kaffirs    form the brain washing of their polititions and lifesyle gurus.

http://www.shariahway.com - www.shariahway.com

 

 

 



Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 10:39am

Sister Hafya. why would women need to speak to men to be seen as being intelligent?

They don't but there are situations that arise where it may happen.

I don't need to speak to men.. but for example we are talking on this web site..

No one has to be 'like men' that is no the point. The point is that often we cross in life. For example when I was the only child at home and outside chores needed to done i did them. For whatever  reason my father could not. I am not trying to 'be like' men but doing a basic function or skill. I suppose it was a 'man's job to mow the lawn or shovel the snow but if I had not done so it would not have happened.

Just like men can learn basic cooking and cleaning skills. These are just skills. That does not make them 'women' but practical and useful in times of need.

I have no issues with general roles. No problem But it does disturb me if the angle of resoning is "I am not capable solely because I am a woman".

I remember  a long time ago taking a class on basic auto mechanics 101 for women (taught by a woman). This is not to say I need to be a mechanic but:

a. What if I get stuck somewhere and cannot get help, I can help myself. Let's say I was on the road with my kids (I don't have kids) and car dies and my phone dies, I'll need to completely rely upon a strange man who comes along.

b. I too can learn simple skills. How to check gas, oil etc. They are not about being a 'man' but learning skills.

I think to promote helplessness is not good in anyone. Yes we can and do need help but not to the point where it is detriment to my health and safety. Both men and women ARE strong. To be able to care for myself makes me more equipped to help our spouses, help other people and raise healthy children.

 

 

 



-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 23 September 2005 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Brother123

Inteligance does not come from a women speaking to a man. Thats called inferiority complex.

 

Inferioirity complex to the man who has a problem with it. Inferiority complex that is part of HIS problem.  And the Prophets wives taught Islam to men and women. You are a little hypocritical.

 

Lameese



Posted By: Brother123
Date Posted: 27 September 2005 at 12:29pm
And the Prophets wives obeyed tehir husband and were not femanist unlike you.


Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 27 September 2005 at 3:09pm

The Prophets wives fought beside him too.....did you forget that? That they owned a buisness? Forget that too? The also taught the people (men and women) about Islam.........again did you forget?

He also mended his own clothes rather then ask his wives to do it, why? Because he said he was able to do this too. Forget that too?

Maybe you should read the Qur'an sometime!

 

Lameese



Posted By: Brother123
Date Posted: 27 September 2005 at 4:46pm
so what your doing here then women. go fight in iraq



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