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schmikbob’s questions

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Science & Technology
Forum Discription: It is devoted for Science & Technology
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21665
Printed Date: 23 November 2014 at 10:50am


Topic: schmikbob’s questions
Posted By: peacemaker
Subject: schmikbob’s questions
Date Posted: 31 August 2011 at 3:49pm

Dear schmikbob,

I have created this thread where your concerns may be discussed at length.
 
May Allah guide us all.
 
Peace


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13



Replies:
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 01 September 2011 at 5:32pm
Wow! Thats so cool...

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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."


Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 05 September 2011 at 2:22pm
I think it's rather deceitfull.  For example why is this thread under the Science and Technology section??  The original thread was the appropriate place for my comments.  It was also under Science and Technology.  I think real debate is not what Peacemaker is after.  Rather a simple way to shuffle others off to the side.  "Say, you disagree, why don't you go away?  That would make things oh so much easier for us all."  Maybe I'm wrong.  I figured the science and technology section was the place for discussions related to things like science and technology. 


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 05 September 2011 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by schmikbob

I think it's rather deceitfull.  For example why is this thread under the Science and Technology section??  The original thread was the appropriate place for my comments.  It was also under Science and Technology.  I think real debate is not what Peacemaker is after.  Rather a simple way to shuffle others off to the side.  "Say, you disagree, why don't you go away?  That would make things oh so much easier for us all."  Maybe I'm wrong.  I figured the science and technology section was the place for discussions related to things like science and technology. 
 
Hello schmikbob,
Greetings!
 

In http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21597 -  

“I have found the attempt to find scientific meaning in some rather vague statements in the Quran that have not previously been attributed with this meaning is a recent phenomenon.  It is shocking to me that more people, muslims in particular, don't have a problem with this.”

Therefore, I created this thread in this section where your concerns may be addressed appropriately without diverting that thread. That doesn’t mean that you cannnot take part in that thread. Also, Galen and Hippocrates could not be discussed any further in that thread as the topic was about the combined wonders of the Qur’an and Astrophysics.

 

Here is my last post from that thread. Your comments are in blue:

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Hello schmikbob,
Greetings!

“I would argue that the writings of Galen and Hippocrates stand as an amazing compilation of medical knowledge of their time.  The histories of Herodotus and Thucydides are also authors of books at the pinnacle of writing on the Greco-Persian wars. They do not resort to vagueness or pretend to be anything other than what they are.  Nor does anyone try to interpret them to stuff meaning where it doesn't belong.”

I expected that you would quote works of Astrophysics that don’t contradict with the modern scientific facts. For example, what was prevalent then with regards to the creation of the universe? Anyway, Galen and Hippocrates made great contributions in their times. But, their work was not flawless. For example, Galen’s theories of the circulation of blood were refuted later.

 “I have found the attempt to find scientific meaning in some rather vague statements in the Quran that have not previously been attributed with this meaning is a recent phenomenon.  It is shocking to me that more people, muslims in particular, don't have a problem with this.”

I think this may be discussed in detail in another thread. Briefly speaking, Muslims are capable of appreciating the signs of Allah as they apply both faith and reason (of course, faith dominates) to understand Him and His amazing creations. In the process, faith and science harmonize, but faith overrules science in contradiction. For example, early Muslims had the faith in the entire Qur’an, even though many verses were at odd then with the prevailing science.      

“Also, I feel that the Science and Technology section is a perfect place for a discussion about science in the Quran.”

It seems we are on the same page as long as the discussion takes place for the purposes of learning and understanding. Debating from an atheistic perspective, for example, may be accommodated in the Interfaith section.  

Looking at your interest, I am creating a thread in this section ( http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21665 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21665 -  May Allah guide us all.

Peace



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: locker_13
Date Posted: 06 September 2011 at 5:55am
Originally posted by schmikbob

I think it's rather deceitfull.  For example why is this thread under the Science and Technology section??  The original thread was the appropriate place for my comments.  It was also under Science and Technology.  I think real debate is not what Peacemaker is after.  Rather a simple way to shuffle others off to the side.  "Say, you disagree, why don't you go away?  That would make things oh so much easier for us all."  Maybe I'm wrong.  I figured the science and technology section was the place for discussions related to things like science and technology. 
We are not at all trying to humiliate you or trying to drive you away. I apologise to you if you think that this is decietful. The purpose of this thread is to answer your objections and queries about the scientific facts in the Holy Quran. So this thread is in the right section. It is related to answering your objections of the scientific facts in the Quran. So feel free to ask anything.


Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 06 September 2011 at 8:47am
I not say you are deceitfull, locker13.  Peacemaker has just told me that my comments are not appropriate for this Science and Technology thread.  Then when someone else makes virtually the same comment in the same thread it is allowed to remain.  I am curious as to why?
As to "scientific facts" in the Quran, what I see is people making statements about it's divine origin based on it's words being compatible with modern scientific theory.  This is a modern polemic and I wonder why?  A great many books don't have glaring scientific errors and are equally compatible, like Melville's Moby Dick, and nobody is trying to assign divine status to it as a result.     


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 06 September 2011 at 9:36am

Hello schmikbob,
Greetings!

 

“Peacemaker has just told me that my comments are not appropriate for this Science and Technology thread.  Then when someone else makes virtually the same comment in the same thread it is allowed to remain.  I am curious as to why?”

 

Please post any comment/complaint in the Comments & Complaints section. Please don’t post it anywhere else.

 

“As to "scientific facts" in the Quran, what I see is people making statements about it's divine origin based on it's words being compatible with modern scientific theory.”

 

The Qur’an is primarily the book of guidance. Yes, it also has many verses that conform to the modern scientific facts.



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: locker_13
Date Posted: 06 September 2011 at 11:45am
Originally posted by schmikbob

I not say you are deceitfull, locker13.  Peacemaker has just told me that my comments are not appropriate for this Science and Technology thread.  Then when someone else makes virtually the same comment in the same thread it is allowed to remain.  I am curious as to why?
As to "scientific facts" in the Quran, what I see is people making statements about it's divine origin based on it's words being compatible with modern scientific theory.  This is a modern polemic and I wonder why?  A great many books don't have glaring scientific errors and are equally compatible, like Melville's Moby Dick, and nobody is trying to assign divine status to it as a result.     
Dear schmikbob, maybe its possible that you did not read the comments carefully. I did not accuse you of calling me decietful. Peacemaker deemed your comments inappropriate on my topic because my topic dealt with the combined wonders of the Quran and astrophysics. It was put up for discussion of Quran and science. While I was open to critisms, you made some objections of Quran having 'vague' statements which dealt with Quran and scientific mistakes. So this is the right place for you to discuss all your queries and objections of Quran in detail. There is no need to feel offended at all. Please ask your questions and we will try our best to answer you.


Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 07 September 2011 at 7:17am
Locker, I think perhaps you are the one that should go back and read the thread comments more carefully.  You are confused.
 
In your post on the Quran and astrophysics you are associating broad statements in the Quran (I will avoid the word vague because it appears to iritate some people) with very specific scientific theories by using words such a "could mean this" and "might mean that".  To me this means that they equally "could mean" and "might mean" something completely different and with no data to back things up all you are doing is guessing.  To me, anyone can guess and all this does is demonstrate a willingness to accept things with no data. 


Posted By: locker_13
Date Posted: 14 September 2011 at 7:46am
Well, then, why don't you start posting your qustions? We are here to answer them.


Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 14 September 2011 at 8:44pm

Locker, why do you think I have questions.  I have a few comments that I made in my last post.  I didn't pose any questions.



Posted By: m.sumair
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 12:17pm
schmikbob, u keep insisting on that Quran has vague statements...something which may fits into modren science...." so than these statements are probablites assumption and estimates. Quran has approx 1000 signs (statements) or maybe more which speaks about modrn science. Lets say (for the sake of argument) tht wht u say is right well....schmikbob what Probability will it make tht all signs provided in Quran are correct!! AND did i mention tht each sign has its own Probability Ratio. should i share few signs..like Sun rotates in its axsis, Moon has its reflected light not of its own, living being primary component is water, energy is undestructble but transfrble, what u speak (soundwave) donot leave atmosphere, human has limited vision and hearng but there are voices and vision beyond his limit,(plz concrn Quran for complete & adequte undrstandng) & many others... complete Embrology in 7 signs is mentioned in Quran. Dr. Keethmoor who discover the science of Embrology (in 1950's) wrote a book (2nd edition) and mention those signs as ref. to his discovry (those signs b/f to him by muslim medical students)..plz google it to get complete info.

So schmikbob if Quran is book ful of estimates than OH MY..THAN this book is a mricale in itself (and indeed Quran is a Blessing)...we human hav limited power and ability, if we use it with care & precaution thn we may prove to be effective & effcient in utilizing ourself AND Quran is that guide (user manual) for humans to effectivly do what he needs to do.
Schmikbob its good tht u believe tht u there is no god...bt if ur man of science thn u must be a reasonble person (and nt stubbron) so look around u, the Systems (nature) wrkng all around u. Hav u notice the system wrkng within u? How much cntrl do u hav on it? How ths highly complex system cme into existance? It surely hav a Procedure..Who design such procedures and Who decide whch procedure cmes whn?
Well there is One And only One ALLAH (the most merciful and graceful). He is above all, the systems & nature r all under His contrl & wish and He is to be praised & obeyed abv all...dont u?


Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 24 February 2012 at 11:19pm
m.sumair, you have written that   "so than these statements are probablites assumption and estimates".  I'm not sure how you get from my statement about vague statement in the Quran to this.  I completely disagree that vague statements in any way resemble probability estimates or assumptions.  I'm not certain you understand the concept of probability.


Posted By: m.sumair
Date Posted: 25 February 2012 at 6:33am
schmikbob, than what u understand (think) when you said that Quran has vague statements...and plz explain your understanding of Probabilities...not the typical explanations of Mathematician, but the simple understanding of yours..    


Posted By: asheque
Date Posted: 26 February 2012 at 11:17pm
I can't denay the orders of Allah descrived in Qur'an.
I have to obey every and each word of Allah.There is
none to be obeyed without Lord,Allah,God



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