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Islam # Taoism

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21564
Printed Date: 27 September 2016 at 6:49pm


Topic: Islam # Taoism
Posted By: iAsk
Subject: Islam # Taoism
Date Posted: 14 August 2011 at 11:21am
First, peace and blessings to all regardless of their gender, race, religion or culture.

I wanted to ask...
What's the difference between the purpose of life and the afterlife between Islam and Taoism? (are there any similarities between the two religions on this point?)



Replies:
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 17 August 2011 at 2:54am

Hello iAsk,
Greetings and welome to the forum!

I suggest you learn Islam here and then find a reliable source to learn Taoism. A search on the internet may also provide you some idea about your concerns. A comparative study of these two subjects requires some effort.

Here is a link about how people often approach various faiths and then Islam at the end. It may give you some idea with regards to your relevant concern.  

http://www.onislam.net/english/reading-islam/understanding-islam/belief/452453-why-islam.html - http://www.onislam.net/english/reading-islam/understanding-islam/belief/452453-why-islam.html
 
At any rate, please feel free to ask specific questions about Islam, and I hope that these would be addressed appropriately.
 
May Allah (God) guide us all.
 

Peace



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: taoist
Date Posted: 17 August 2011 at 8:22pm
 ask, Islam and Taoism are as far apart as east and west.  I have studied Taoism for many years , thus my sign in name. In Islam you have a God that is personal and has interest in you.  In Taoism the Tao does not hear prayers nor favors any person or thing over another.  Totally passive as far as individuals. I would suggest you read the Tao te Ching by Stephen Mitchell if you have not already.  Then read the Quran . Also Taoism has many schools of thought and a pantheon of Gods. But not all sects.  Get some books by Ding Ming Dao , easy readying very informative.  As far as the after life , in the Tao  their is no heaven or hell.  You basically do not exisit and become whorm food. It is a VERY large topic and i could not possibly answer is on this form .  Read  and learn . Taoist.Ying%20Yang

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taoist


Posted By: iAsk
Date Posted: 18 August 2011 at 4:04am
Thank you both for your replies. I learnt new things.

Take care!


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 19 August 2011 at 12:44am
Originally posted by iAsk

Thank you both for your replies. I learnt new things.

Take care!
 
You are welcome. Smile
 
May Allah enlighten you with more knowledge and wisdom. May He make your your quest easy and pleasant. 
 
Peace 
 
 
 


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: taoist
Date Posted: 19 August 2011 at 7:50pm
You are welcome iask .  If you have any questions in the future feel free to ask and i will do my best to answer them .Ying%20Yang  I am NOT an expert by any means , but have a good general grasp of it .

-------------
taoist


Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 01 September 2011 at 1:39pm



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 02 September 2011 at 5:44pm
Hi Taiji Tao.  If I may ask a question.  I thought the Chinese word for God was Shangdi.  What is the difference between Shangdi and Tao?   


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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 02 September 2011 at 6:54pm



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 03 September 2011 at 11:23am
Thanks for the information.  I have looked into the meaning of "Shangdi" and it is usually translated as "Emperor of Heaven" which by implication means "God".  But I had never heard of "Tao" before.  I am very much interested in this subject.  Can you recommend any books I can get to learn more?  Or should I just read the writings of the philosophers you mentioned?

Also, if I may ask, are you a Muslim?  If so, are you a convert?  If you are not a Muslim, why not?        

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 03 September 2011 at 1:02pm





Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 03 September 2011 at 1:12pm



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 03 September 2011 at 1:41pm



Posted By: taoist
Date Posted: 03 September 2011 at 9:43pm
Taiji Tao please show me in the Tao De Ching where it shows you how to get to heaven.  Also Islam is peace read the Tao de Ching for yourself and see if you find any way they could be compatible .  I can,t.

-------------
taoist


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 04 September 2011 at 1:29pm
As-salaam alaikum.  Thanks for the recommendations.  I will certainly look into them. 

Since you accept the Islamic creed, I guess the next relevant question is do you actually practice Islam as your religion?  Do you believe that Islam is the only religion that God (Tao) will accept now that it has been revealed.  The Quran states that the prophets who were sent in the past were sent to their own people.  Muhammad (pbuh) on the other hand was sent to all mankind, so Islam is a universal religion.   

Also, taoist has raised some objections to some of your claims.  I would be interested in how you respond to them, since this is your area of expertise. 


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 04 September 2011 at 4:17pm



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 04 September 2011 at 4:22pm
2nd quote:

Section 23:
To talk little is natural.
High winds do not last all morning.
Heavy rain does not last all day.
Why is this?  Heaven and earth!
If Heaven and earth cannot make things eternal,
How is it possible for man?
He who follows Tao (God)
Is at one with Tao (God).
He who is virtuous
Experiences (God's) Virtue.
He who loses the Way (God's Way)
Feels lost.
When you are at one with the Tao (God),
The Tao (God) welcomes you.
When you are at one with (God's) Virtue, The Virtue is always there.
When you are at one with loss,
The loss is experienced willingly.
He who does not trust enough
Will not be trusted.



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 04 September 2011 at 4:27pm
I would like to post two more quotes for mutual understanding.

Section 53:
If I have even just a little sense,
I will walk on the main road (Way of God) and my only fear will be of straying from it.
Keeping to the main road is easy,
But people love to be sidetracked.
When the court is arrayed in splendor,
The fields are full of weeds,
And the granaries are bare.
Some wear gorgeous clothes,
Carry sharp swords,
And indulge themselves with food and drink;
They have more possessions than they can use.
They are robber barons.
This is certainly not the Way of Tao (God).


Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 04 September 2011 at 4:34pm
Thank you for your patience.

Section 54:
What is firmly established cannot be uprooted.
What is firmly grasped cannot slip away.
It will be honored from generation to generation.
Cultivate (God's) Virtue in your self,
And (God's) Virtue will be real.
Cultivate it in the family,
And (Gods) Virtue will abound.
Cultivate it in the village,
And (Gods) Virtue will grow.
Cultivate it in the nation,
And (Gods) Virtue will be abundant.
Cultivate it in the universe,
And (Gods) Virtue will be everywhere.
Therefore look at the body as body;
Look at the family as family;
Look at the village as village;
Look at the nation as nation;
Look at the universe as universe.
How do I know the universe is like this?
By looking!





Posted By: ping_an
Date Posted: 11 September 2011 at 12:37am
I just wanted to add some insight into "Islamispeace's" question on the translation of "Shang Di"

I am by no means an expert on Taoism or Islam, but both "speak" to me in different ways, though I sway more towards Taoism. Inshallah this will shed some light and I hope that I will be forgiven for any mistakes or inaccuracies in my account. Allahu Allem!

Shang Di is indeed mostly "translated" as "The Emperor in Heaven" or somewhere along those lines. In Taoism, God is considered more of a "force." Think about it this way: If you did not have a "Name" for God, like if the words Allah and God did not exist, how would you describe "him" ?

As pointed out earlier, in Taoism, God is formless. I believe Islam may agree to that. But regardless, what do you imagine when you hear the word God or Allah? (I am sorry if this is offensive, as I think some people will consider that Haram, to give God an image?) But I am just using this as an example to make my point and not to cause offence.
Coming from a Culturally Christian background (I am not actually Christian,) as kids or even adults, when they hear the word "God," they may think of someone sitting on a throne.. maybe with a long beard, something like that right?

By doing so, they have personified God. Another example, God is genderless, but many texts will say "He," when referring to God, even when you speak many people will do this. Taoism does not say it is neither right or wrong. Because the barrier here is language itself.. we try to refer to "Him" soomehow, without always saying Allah/God.

Also pointed out earlier (I don't know the exact quote by Taji) but it's something like "You can describe the Tao, but it is not the true Tao." It is trying to say that you can use all your words to try and describe what God is, but you will never be able to describe God entirely, because God is so great, greater than our language will ever be. But still you must try.

So, in Chinese culture, many people will refer to God as "Shang di," and it is when that person has personified the Tao. Others will say "Tian," meaning sky or in this case, Heavens. The "Heaven" in this case, is not limited to Paradise, or what is considered Heaven in the English language. It is referring more to the "Cosmic Energy" (God,) the "Force" which is behind the universe and all creation.

As for iAsk's original topic of this thread, I am confident that Taoism indeed mentions a heaven and a hell, though it's definition may vary from Christian or Islamic definitions of them. However, there are several schools of thought in Taoism and unfortunately I do not feel as confident in answering in that department. For example, one school says that it is very possible for your soul to redeem itself and leave Hell, but how I am not sure. As you see, this is contrary to what Islam says on the subject.

But in my personal experience, I have found there to be more similarities than not and indeed Taoism and Taoists will welcome anyone to be Taoists, without giving up their religion. As it is the majority view Taoism is not a religion per se, there is no conversion. The only requirement is that you believe in The One, which created the universe and everything in it, whether you call it God or Allah or Shang Di. I say that it is the only "Requirement," but of course you are recommended/Highly Encouraged try your best to follow how Dao De Ching (and other txts) says to lead a good life as a good person. Prayer and Cultivation is also a major part, but I do not wish to get toooo far off topic!

Again Allahu Aalem, I hope I did not mislead anyone and be forgiven for any mistake. I hope we all benefit from our discussion!


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 11 September 2011 at 11:25am
Thanks to both Taiji_Tao and ping_an for the explanations. 

Ping_an, I agree with much of what you have written.  However, concerning God and whether He is "formless", in Islamic thought, God does have a "form" and He does sit on a throne.  That does not mean He is confined to one space or that He has physical limitations.  One of the things Muslims look forward to in Paradise is actually being given the honor of "seeing" God.  However, here in this earthly life, God has not revealed Himself because His glory would consume us.  For example, in the Quran, the story is mentioned of when Moses (pbuh) requested that he be will look upon God:

"And when Moses came [to Mount Sinai] at the time set by Us, and his Sustainer spoke unto him, he said: "O my Sustainer! Show [Thyself] unto me, so that I might behold Thee!"

Said [God]: "Never canst thou see Me. However, behold this mountain: if it remains firm in its place, then - only then - wilt thou see Me."

And as soon as his Sustainer revealed His glory to the mountain, He caused it to crumble to dust; and Moses fell down in a swoon. And when he came to himself, he said: "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! Unto Thee do I turn in repentance; and I shall [always] be the first to believe in Thee!" (7:143)         

So, in our current earthly existence, we cannot possibly look upon our Lord, but in Paradise, it will be a different story:

"Some faces will on that Day be bright with happiness, (23) looking up to their Sustainer; (24) and some faces will on that Day be overcast with despair, (25) knowing that a crushing calamity is about to befall them." (75:22-25)

Of course, what you said about trying to form an "image" of God is certainly true.  We should not do that simply because we don't know what He "looks" like nor has He given us permission to do that.  The idolaters are more concerned with "images".  A true believer shuns such ideas. 


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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 September 2011 at 2:58pm
Salam,
I find this topic very interesting and everyone's input very informative. Taiji, I am very glad to have you here at the forum, as you bring to our knowledge things that are not just new but interesting to a Muslim like myself.
In essence and in truth all guidance came from Allah, it was people who made it what it became at the end. Allah kept sending the same guidance complete and pure finally in the form of the Quran.
May Allah guide and help us all, in gaining knowledge and thus making better judgement.
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 12 September 2011 at 3:37pm



Posted By: 786SalamKhan
Date Posted: 30 December 2012 at 5:47am
Asalamualaikum,

Taiji_Tao your points interest me but what about Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching when it says "It is older than God..." and another statement when it says "The Tao gives birth to One, One gives birth to Two, Two gives birth to Three. Three gives birth to all things..."
How are they compatible with Islam when it says God came after the Tao and also the Tao Te Ching denies Oneness of the Tao?



Posted By: nospam001
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 9:33pm
A most interesting thread, thank you. Until now I had completely missed the parallels with Taoism and therefore the significance of Muhammad's many trips to China early in his career.

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God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Taiji_Tao


  Take for instance a few interesting points that are often mistranslated  Tao Teh Ching: Tao (means God, it is the ancient Chinese word for God, like Allah is Arabic for God), tao (means the Way or path, you use this term when referring to the Way to God or the Path to God), Teh (means highest virtue), Ching (means Classic Holy Text, and only a few books in China have this title).  Now when you put the title together Tao Teh Ching you have a profoundly simple yet powerful title: "The Classic Holy text of God's Virtue".  This clearly now becomes one of the ancient texts referred to in the Quran as being given to man in ancient or earlier times regarding instruction to other non Arab people.... 
the Sage Lao Tzu (author of Tao Teh Ching) said ....unless one becomes like a child and returns to that state of simplicity, humbling oneself, lowering oneself to Tao and submitting his will to the Will of Heaven then he cannot enter the gate of Heaven.....  If that does not clearly show the same message then I can find more. 

Peace be with you on your journey.
Tom
Greetings Tom,
 
This was a very enlightening post.  Thank you.
"....unless one becomes like a child and returns to that state of simplicity, humbling oneself, lowering oneself to Tao and submitting his will to the Will of Heaven then he cannot enter the gate of Heaven...."
This is very clearly the same message that Jesus brought... the message of Christianity.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:03pm

Some thoughts;

This to me is all about the wisdom of the ancients...

ancient chinese wisdom

ancient Egyptian and hebrew wisdom

16 Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. (Jeremiah 6)

I always understood Tao to mean Truth...

Truth, Word... God

"In the beginning was the Word"... the Word, the Truth, the thing that created and brought into being all matter...

Yes, God is not human. God is not anything we with our human minds can describe. God is what... force, energy, Word, Truth, Light... He is all these things is He not?

Which is the most ancient of civilizations from which all wisdom flows?



Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by 786SalamKhan

Asalamualaikum,

Taiji_Tao your points interest me but what about Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching when it says "It is older than God..." and another statement when it says "The Tao gives birth to One, One gives birth to Two, Two gives birth to Three. Three gives birth to all things..."
How are they compatible with Islam when it says God came after the Tao and also the Tao Te Ching denies Oneness of the Tao?

 
I am most interested in the answers to these questions, and in learning more in this discussion. Smile
 


Posted By: 786SalamKhan
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 1:07pm
Salam,
No one has answered my previous questions about the Tao yet.
Also, since when has The Prophet Muhammad ever visited China?


Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:20pm



Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 05 January 2013 at 6:23pm



Posted By: 786SalamKhan
Date Posted: 07 January 2013 at 5:22am
Originally posted by Taiji_Tao

Salam,

  Unfortunately, there are many terrible translations of the Tao Te Ching, especially those by Orientalists. 
 
 Chapter 4 of the Tao Te Ching says no such thing.  Chap. 4 is showing how Tao cannot be used up or filled it is everlasting and the source of the 10,000 things (the entire universe[s]). 

  Regarding Chapter 42:
The Tao begot one, One begot two, two begot three, and three begot the ten thousand things.... 

 This is the oldest treatise on evolution and physics, I will rewrite it in the actual terms for better understanding.

"The Tao (God) created one [the Original Energy-first building block of life], The One [Original Energy] created two [Yin and Yang], The two [Yin and Yang] created the three [Liang Yi, which is Yin/Yang balanced with the third particle], the three (Liang Yi] created the 10,000 things.  A modern term for Liang Yi is the Atom (Protons, Electrons and Neutrons; or Positive [Yang], Negative [Yin] and Neutral)"

  Would you not agree that God created the original Energy, then created the building blocks of all life including the individual parts of the Atom and that Atoms make up all life in the Universe?  This is what the verse is referring to....And yes, very consistent with Islam.  In fact, the Taoists and Muslims have a very long history together, very much like siblings.

Also, all of the Taoist Classics; especially the Tao Te Ching and I-Ching speak of the Oneness of Tao (God).  There is even a similar expression: Muslims say Allah u Akbar (God is Great), in the classics the Taoists said Da Tao (Great God or God is Great).  Smile

I hope this helps bring clarity for you. 


Salam,

Jazakallah for your answers. But which Translations of the Tao Te Ching do you use? I also suspected that when it says "The Tao became one, one became two, two became three..." it could mean "The Tao created one etc." I'm still not sure about chapter 4, I think I need a better explanation please.

I was also already aware of the hadith to go as far as China to seek knowledge although I do not know how that means that the Prophet himself had been to China.





Posted By: Taiji_Tao
Date Posted: 05 July 2013 at 6:05pm





Posted By: truthfull
Date Posted: 09 May 2014 at 12:23pm
About islam

Islam contain miracles

Islam talk about signs of judgment day

Sunrise from west is major sign of judgment day

Scientist proved it

Gravity will reset in polar reverse so
That sun will rise from west



•Islam proved to be true religion

Jews scholar say islam true

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw5SHH9eQb4


• name prophet muhammad in bible

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wm3sZfPwv1g

• jesus confirm he is prophet

Luke 13:31

33 But I must go on my way today, tomorrow, and the next day. A prophet of God cannot be killed outside of Jerusalem.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 13:31-35


• most important grave prove islam only truth path

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FTwEkf_zOKM


• death confirm islam truth

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O0U6HQS51Tk

• miracle of quran

• difference

Islam ask to believe in all prophets
With no exception


Quran is word of god /allah

But toesim doesn't have such thing

So do we follow human or creator

Quran miracle

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kmgY-2gLrk0






Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 12 May 2014 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Taiji_Tao

Hello,

...A final note the Sage Lao Tzu (author of Tao Teh Ching) said ....unless one becomes like a child and returns to that state of simplicity, humbling oneself, lowering oneself to Tao and submitting his will to the Will of Heaven then he cannot enter the gate of Heaven.....  If that does not clearly show the same message then I can find more. 

Peace be with you on your journey.
Tom
www.theQiInstitute.com

Greetings Taiji_Tao,

Wow, I found what you shared to be so interesting.

Yshwe(known as Jesus) also said;

At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Peace to you on your journeys also,
Caringheart


-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: truthfull
Date Posted: 15 May 2014 at 10:45am
Purpose of life in islam to worship Creator

Allah say in quran :


And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.


• After life judging

The Angel of Death comes to the [dying] believer, sits at his head and says, "O you good soul, come out and receive your Lord's forgiveness and pleasure." Then the soul flows out effortlessly just as water flows from the mouth of a waterskin. And the opposite for disbelievers


Prove :

Believer.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Tk0wFYRig

Dis believer

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9PrQTTMFMR0


Notice: pain nothing to do with
Choking both of them injured





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