Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah?
Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Discription: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18278
Printed Date: 19 May 2013 at 8:53pm
Topic: Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah?
Posted By: Cyrusgames
Subject: Force the non-believing world to submit to Allah?
Date Posted: 11 February 2011 at 6:37pm
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Do muslims believe that it is right to use violence to make the non-believing world submit to Allah?
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Replies:
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:02am
No. We don't.
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Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 12 February 2011 at 2:30am
Originally posted by CyrusgamesDo muslims believe that it is right to use violence to make the non-believing world submit to Allah?
No we don't.
2:256 "There is no compulsion
in religion"... (Qur'an)
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Posted By: Cyrusgames
Date Posted: 13 February 2011 at 10:56am
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If that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam?
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Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 21 February 2011 at 7:25am
The interpretation of holy books do change over time. This applies to both the Quran and the Bible. During the early years of Christianity Romans used violence to make the non-believing world north of Rome submit to Christianity and stop worshiping Wotan, a West Germanic god corresponding to Norse Odin.
We have to be very grateful that religions evolve over time.
The biggest change to Christianity was caused by the Age of Enlightenment.
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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 21 February 2011 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by CyrusgamesIf that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam?
Hi, like Matt Browne pointed out correctly - every nation used to fight wars and capture lands in the older days. Including Christians, Hindus, Persians, Romans, etc. It had more to do with 'survival of the fittest' and 'capture or be captured' rather than forcing people to submit to religion.
You will find that compared to their non-Muslim conquerors - the Muslim conquerors allowed freedom of religion in thier lands. That is why to this day you shall find Coptic Christians (who have been christian since centuries) in Egypt - which is surrounded by, and was mostly a Muslim controlled region. Or you will find Hindus dominating the Sub-Continent - which again, has been under Muslim rule for centuries. Also, did you know for example, that during the Crusades, the only safe-haven for persecuted Jews were Muslim lands? Jews flocked to the Ottoman states because they were treated as 1st class citizens and their educational/ scientific contributions were appreciated. I would suggest you google Jews under Ottoman rule - to read for yourself.
The above examples were to illustrate my point that Muslim conquests were not to force the world to submit to Allah - they were the norm of the day. There is no compulsion in religion like I quoted from the Qur'an before. Because had that been the case, you would not find century-old non-muslim communities established in these areas. Unlike what happened to Muslims in Bosnia, Central-Asia, Spain. They were forced to convert to Christianity, and their identities were forcibly erased.
If Muslims wanted to/ believed in forcing others into accepting their values & ideologies they would be attacking nations today. Yet in today's modern times when warfare is abhorred, it is non-Muslims enforcing their ideologies (Operation Freedom Iraq, Afghanistan) by attacking sovereign nations. Actions speak louder than words right?
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Posted By: tmac26
Date Posted: 30 November 2012 at 3:54pm
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Ok which aya came first theres no compultion in religion or fight those who beleive not in allah or the last day until they pay the jizya and feel subued. Does the latter not abrigate the first. As islam is for all people for all time why do muslims say... Well in the time of muhammad... Or in history. You cant have no compultion in religion and force non muslims to pay the jizya. The laws in the quran are not equal with the hadiths. So for al men for all time doesnt just mean history. Is there a aya that abrogates the fight againt non beleivers?
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 06 December 2012 at 3:51am
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Originally posted by tmac26
You cant have no compultion in religion and force non muslims to pay the jizya. The laws in the quran are not equal with the hadiths. So for al men for all time doesnt just mean history. Is there a aya that abrogates the fight againt non beleivers?
Do you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.
The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 07 December 2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by CyrusgamesIf that is true (which I thank God that it is) what about Islamic conquests in the centuries after the founding of Islam?
Cyrus,
I thought your question was, if Muslims don't force others with violence to convert to Islam.
And the answer to that is NO.
Now you are asking a different question, but are you confusing it with your first.
Now you are asking about Islamic conquests. Conquest and Conversion are different things, I hope you realize that.
Muslim conquests were to establish God's law on the earth, to provide justice, security and equality for all, and to spread knowledge and guidance, not to force people in to becoming Muslims.
Hasan
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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 17 February 2013 at 12:20pm
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Originally posted by Chrysalis
Do you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.
The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.
Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense. From what I understood previously it sounded more like a non-Muslim persecution tax.
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I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 04 March 2013 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Webber
Originally posted by ChrysalisDo you know what a Jizya is? It is a word that refers to Tax. Both Non-Muslims and Muslims need to pay taxes to their government. The Jizya Tax basically excuses the non-muslims from having to fight in the Muslim Military, and ensures that their rights are protected by the ruling Muslim government.
The Muslim civilians pay Zakat, Sadaqah, Ushr, and other sorts of religiously determined ''taxes'' (although they are not exactly like taxes, more a religious obligation) which non-muslims are excused from. Non-Muslims need not even be part of the muslim military because may not want to fight nations that belong to their faith.
Thanks for the explanation. That makes more sense. From what I understood previously it sounded more like a non-Muslim persecution tax. Yup. Also, from what I have read, according to Imam Abu Hanifah (who is one of the greatest muslim scholars of Islam) it was only applicable to able-bodied, on-muslim males who were fit for military service. Women, Children, Poor, Monks, Hermits, slaves and elderly were exempted from the Jizya. It was a military compensation (or defense tax) for non-muslims who did not want to fight in the muslim army. ------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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