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Rami this is for you.

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: Matters/topics, related to various sects, are discussed where only Muslims who may or may not belong to a sect take part.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=177
Printed Date: 20 September 2014 at 5:14pm


Topic: Rami this is for you.
Posted By: Nausheen
Subject: Rami this is for you.
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 4:22am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

 

Al-hafiz al-Suyuti relates in Ta'yid al-haqiqa al-`aliyya that Imam al-Shafi`i said:

I accompanied the Sufis and received from them but three words: their statement that time is a sword: if you do not cut it, it cuts you; their statement that if you do not keep your ego busy with truth it will keep you busy with falsehood; their statement that deprivation is immunity. http://www.sunnah.org/tasawwuf/scholar5.htm#1 - 1

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah wa barkatuhu,

please explain what is meant by "deprivation is immunity"?

Jazak allah khairan

Maa salaama

 



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.



Replies:
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 5:02am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

from what little understanding i have about the subject, thsi statment is talking about unatachment from things.when a person deprives himself from eg material things they stop having an influence on him therefore he will be able to see/judge clearly with out the pressure or moral coruption associated with materialism.

Deprivation leads to unatachment, it also takes a person away from what is haram and strengthens his moral character.  The type of depravation that all muslims practice is fasting and this is only one form.

there are different degrees of unatachment they depend on the indevidual and how much he wishes to achieve. The awliyah of allah are at the highest level and they have unatached there hearts from everything other than allah, as rasul allah (sallah llahu alahi wa sallam) said i have one face turned towards humanity and another face turned towards allah, this is very dificult to do.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 7:49am

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim,

Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah

Originally posted by rami


Deprivation leads to unatachment,

This is what i thought.

Jazak allah khair.



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 3:12pm

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

from what little understanding i have about the subject, thsi statment is talking about unatachment from things.when a person deprives himself from eg material things they stop having an influence on him therefore he will be able to see/judge clearly with out the pressure or moral coruption associated with materialism.

Deprivation leads to unatachment, it also takes a person away from what is haram and strengthens his moral character.  The type of depravation that all muslims practice is fasting and this is only one form.

there are different degrees of unatachment they depend on the indevidual and how much he wishes to achieve. The awliyah of allah are at the highest level and they have unatached there hearts from everything other than allah, as rasul allah (sallah llahu alahi wa sallam) said i have one face turned towards humanity and another face turned towards allah, this is very dificult to do.

 Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

Here is my  view about the issue with my all respect to you,

 When we deprive ourselves from the life(also including materials) we can imagine that we can more serve in the name of Allah...escaping from the problems,closing the doors and praying so many rakahs behind the closed doors and not facing with the problems will imagine a person happy!,we can write good theories inside the pink dreams in an comfortable warm bed;but what about Hz.Muhamed(s.a.v.s.),his 13 years passed in Makkah while he had the chance of depriving Himself and His companions including women and little babies and why he had not choose the easy way?,why he had  not choose the deprived way?..if pasifizm in the life is the best way;why He stayed in Mecca for 13 years inside the serious problems while he had the chance to escape,deprivation.....?

 As an result deprivation should be purified from pasifizm;should not be used with ibadahs(fasting),the source of the ibadhs are so large to not fit in one word that will cause wrong imaginations inside the uneducated persons...Allah and the last prophet told to the ummah to attach to the things in the name of Allah not to escape from them;this is the success...unless this muslims become the toys of the jews by the cause of their absent abilities comes from escaping from the problems,not touching the issues,closing their eyes and just thinking that pasifizm is the way should be...don't hear,don't look,don't talk,don't touch,approve them,don't break the play;pray in your mosque live there and don't carry the issues to the civil life;to the examples prove that islam is the whole living style...we can easily understand from the third period of Mecca in the life of the last prophet that the torture came to Him by the cause of not confirming the khafirs to their invitations on deprivation...deprivation has an large meaning inside the vocabulary of Qur'an;using it without the descriptions shown in Qur'an will cause a meaning pasifizm which botched the last 150 years of my country...

 brother Rami,your statement is true in the conjectures of your idea;i just wanted to show that it will cause some bad results if we don't attach it to the whole process of Qur'an...i apologize from all of you;but we have lived and finished some of the stories now some of the other muslims new begins;we now see that some of the theories are so far away from Qur'an,i don't know what happened to this point;but some quotations are not real...Turkey is a hard place to live;but a good place to learn before loosing or entering to the tried and loosed ways....i wish i could more share with you if i had the full english grammar ability...may be in next years;i am still working on...no offend;we want each other the best...



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Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 5:48am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

I Didnt mention the term pacifism!!

Where did i say dont apply this with what else is in the quran, this is part of the teachings of islam it is a tool to be used for those who have a desease in there heart like ghafla, miserliness or shahawat...the list is long and not pretty.

Unataching your self from this life is what rasul allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) did to the point were Aish(ra) said that Allah was his true beloved, i assume you know his life story well, remind your self of how he lived it, how simple it was how he denied himself things other people in madina enjoyed.

Tell me what did he wear?

What did he sleep on?

What furniture did he have in his house?

What did he eat? Why would he go hungry for a number of days?

What is the purpose of Zakkat? Ramadan? Hajj? Itikaf? seclusion?

Why is there a chapter in sahih Bukhari dedicated entirely to Itikaf?

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/033.sbt.html - Retiring to a Mosque for Remembrance of Allah (I'tikaf)

How do you put these things above with Pacifism. When you unatach your self from this life to what ever degree you are able (and i stress this point) you pay more attention to allah and his commands even if it means going to jihad. and there are examples of this in the sunnah.

A calssic example is that of the companion who kept delaying going to jihad with rasul allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) until rasul allah finaly left for battle, he was sitting in his garden while both his wives were preparing seperate meals for him they placed there dishes in front of him he picked up a piece of food to eat and beffore he put it in his mouth he said to himself "you are sitting here enjoying this while rasul allah is going to war" he put it back down and with out tacking another bite packed his things and followed rasul allah to jihad. (my rough wording).

this is unatachment from things. It is that when it comes to performing your duty to allah, allah comes first. This sort of strength needs training it doesnt come naturally, you are not born with it.

This is the teaching of rasul allah the sahaba the scholars and the awliayh of allah, maybe you are not fully familiar with it.

Br I dont trust anything new that comes from Turkey, it's people are being secularised and Islam Is being destroyed slowly, women not being allowed to wear the hijab if they want to go to universaty is a classic example. You may like Mostafa Kamal and the turkish government but i dont agree with them or him or his teachings.

here is where turkey is heading akhi,

"Verily you shall conquer Constantinople. What a wonderful leader will her leader be, and what a wonderful army will that army be!"

Narrated from Bishr al-Khath`ami or al-Ghanawi by: Ahmad, al-Musnad 14:331

and

Narrated with sound chains from Dhu Mikhbar al-Najashi by Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Ibn Majah, Ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih and al-Dhahabi concurred.

[this is part of a larger hadith]
The Mahdi will find himself surrounded by the armies of the Dajjal. `Isa shall descend, lead the Muslim armies out, and kill the Dajjal. The rest of the Muslim campaigns shall remove all trace of unbelief from the face of the earth.

At this time Constantinople shall be taken by peaceful means. The army that will conquer it shall consist in seventy thousand of the Banu Ishaq i.e. Western Muslims and their sole weapons will be Shahada and Takbir as stated in Sahih Muslim.

Turkey is heading away from islam not towards it.

Zakkat = unattaching your self from your wealth it cures miserliness

fasting = unattaching your self from physical pleasure it cures passions, desires and gives you inner strength.

Itikaf and Seclusion = unattaching your self from the community (for a period of time, not permanently) so you can better dedicate your self to allah and rid you self of the evil influence of the society.  Rasul allah recomended this as a protection from the dajjal among other things, he said go into the mountains with your sheep or go bite on the roots of a tree and wait for death as this is better for you than his fitnah. Now we are living in the fitnah of the dajjal as rasull allah said there will be people who will prepare the way for him. So it is only going to get worse.

>>>Seclusion [khalwat] It is a kind of isolation, that can only be prescribed by the shaikh. Its shortest time limit is 40 days, as mentioned in the Holy Qur'an about Sayiddina Musa (s), "And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses" (Surah al-Baqarah, 51). Muslim narrated that the Prophet (s) made seclusion in the cave of  ara for one complete month. Its aim is to clean the heart of connection to this world of material pleasures, and to bring it to a state of remembrance of Allah, Almighty and Exalted.<<<

>>> "So her Lord accepted her with a gracious acceptance, and caused her to grow an excellent growth, and made Zakariyya (s) her guardian. Whenever Zakariya visited her in her seclusion he found with her provision. He said, 'O Maryam, whence hast thou this?' She replied, 'It is from Allah. Surely, Allah gives to whomsoever He pleases without measure.'" (Ali Imran, 37)

Allah said in the Qur'an, in Surat al-Kahf (ayat 16), mentioning the story of the companions of the cave, they were ordered, "Betake yourself to the Cave: your Lord will shower His mercies on you and dispose of your affair towards comfort and ease."

Similary, seclusion has a proof in the sunnah. Bukhari reports that Ayesha said, "The Prophet loved to make seclusion. And he was secluding himself in the Cave of Hira."<<<

All this is a tool in the deen to help cure you of what ever problems you may be facing, it is not for everybody but it is there if needed.
Dont take my ideas to extremes, i mentioned nothing of what you said above.




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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 1:29pm

Aleykum Selam ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh brother Rami,

 Brother,with your new explanations on the issue which made your opinion putting it on the right side;this should be a good lesson for you for not being an board of a respected person on the high issues and not making absent explanations that our beloved prophet gave his heart while carrying them to us..thank you very much for your new explanations which cleared the issue,it should be in your first message...i apologize from you for showing you a way from an another point which came to you hard and caused losing your control;now everything is ok...for coming to your accusations on me;i forgive you for the sake of Allah..they are all wrong and did not fit to you...Wa Salaam.



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Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 3:08pm

A note for brother rami with looking to his accusations on me,

 I have discarded from the university by the cause defending the muslimahs for their suffers from the hijab ban in the university which you have told.It was the time i made an agreement with an professor now who is the mayor of my city for being an assistant in the administrative sciences inside of his works...the deen entered to the campus with the polices and shouted to the muslimahs who was resisting to for not passing out from the class for taking their educations with their head-scarves,honors;the deen touched their clothes then i acted in the name of Allah then he discarded me from  my academic career,Alhamdulilah,i made the best to their honors;i did for the sake of Allah,no matter it's results..

 Coming to your another accusation on me claiming that i am an secularist which is not right that;i am an close parent of an  previous Co.Prime minister of Turkey who raised up with the supports of my father then he supported me taking my education in the special schools.He is the leader of an secularist,nationalist party and i am the  one person in the family who reject his opinions in front of his civil army who loves to making over the persons if they rejects;typical nationalist character...Alhamdulillah,i am still standing...

 Coming to your another accusation on me claiming that i am the advocator of secular army of Turkey which is not right that i did the vest in the army without approving their commands...  

Brother,no offend from me to you...As i know from Sister Nausheen's care on you that you are an good person;but you don't know so much about me,also you don't have to...the problem came from me that my time is over in the board...i lost my concentration and care to the board that i can't find enough energy to conducting my views after an serious searches on the issues...i need a time to becoming lonely with Qur'an with my own language for a long time;telling it and taking from it...today i began and understood that my home is there to reading,thinking,telling and improving my knowledge...i have got so much things to do...

 With my all apologies;i want permission from my friends for taking a break till to autumn...i missed my Qur'an works.Caring the other issues,forcing the limits with my absent english(i have got so much things to tell;but no door-english- to pass out) tires me and i need to go....

 Jazak Allah Khair...

  A note: Take care on "Sun is rising in the west series in the islamicty tv";you'll have wonderful stories inside of it..wonderful programme...



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Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 04 April 2005 at 12:18am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum Sulaiman

I didnt give a new explanation, i added to the old one. Nausheen asked me a question and i answered that she didnt ask me to explain every aspect of it. You have misunderstood what said originaly and interpreted it how you like.

I got upset akhi when you started using modern turkey as an example, i assumed only a person who supports it would do such a thing. I didnt accuse you of being secular i know turkish muslims who are not secular but support the government and Mustafa Kamal i thought you may have been one of them.

I am sorry for your strugles, rasul allah said the weakest form of faith is to know when something is wrong and the strogest form is to act against it.

Khair insha allah.


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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.



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