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3 questions from Danil D.

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=173
Printed Date: 24 October 2014 at 8:38am


Topic: 3 questions from Danil D.
Posted By: abdnur
Subject: 3 questions from Danil D.
Date Posted: 19 March 2005 at 2:49pm

Dear Daniel

I will try to briefly answer your questions.

1.) Is there a belief in Islam of a future messiah?
What are the signs and how is this to take place?

Answer: No there no other messiah besides Jesus. You see each prophet was given a title by which he was was refer to (sometimes). The messiah was Jesus's title, Messiah (wiped on/upon, annoitted, bless). Prophet Mohammed was known as The seal of the prophets, Moses as the one whom God spoke to and Abraham as the friend of God. The only future messiah is the RETURN of the messiah Jesus. The jews are still awaiting for the comming of the messiah because

1. Jesus, they rejected him even though he was a jew, I think because, they said how can the messiah of God be a bastard (excuse my french) and also because they think he claimed to be son of God/God.

2. Mohamad, was not a jew so automatically he could not have been the messiah. Mohamad on the other hand confirmed that Jesus was the messiah. Wow, the messiah had come and gone and the majority of jews didn't realize it, what a loss.

 2.) Can a verbal contract exist between a muslim and a non muslim
according to Islamic law? If not how was trade conducted with other
peoples?

Answer: Yes, in islam, a contract (verbal/written) is the same regardless of the faith of the participants in the contract. I.E. there are no special cases/rules for muslims and non-muslims. The conditions of a contract are the same for all. Muslims have always traded with others and have been ordered by God to fullfill their oaths.

3.) Is there such a thing as conservative or reformed Islam as in
Conservative or reformed Judaism?

Answer: No. In Islam as in Judaism there is only one message from God not 2,3,....,etc. These divisions/denominations/factions are all men made. Even though these divisions exist, we are ordered by God not to identify with them. We are oredered to hold on God's rope and not to divide. God is the one who gave us our identity/name (muslims). Who whould want another name? 

If I were to ask you, was Moses a conservative or a reformist jew?most likely you would say he was an orthodox jew and I might agree with you. But, if I were to ask Moses, are you an orthodox jew? what would he say??

I said I would TRY to answer so forgive me for my shortcomings and mispells.

Salam

abdnur



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seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given to you.



Replies:
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 19 March 2005 at 7:31pm

Bismillah,

But what do we think about these things is what he is asking.  Do we in our minds consider some as orthodox and some as conservative and some as liberal?

Yes.  So all who can answer this question, please do.  Maybe we shouldn't have these divisions, but we really do.

So let's say I ask my friend who gave the prayer at the mosque.  She might say, "Oh, that extremist so and so."  Or "That liberal so and so."  What terms do you use? Anybody?



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 March 2005 at 8:45pm

As'Salaamu Alaikum Wa, Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh ya Muslimeen!

HerJihad said:

"But what do we think about these things is what he is asking.  Do we in our minds consider some as orthodox and some as conservative and some as liberal?"

If I may same something here, I definitely agree with abdnur when he says that Muslims must not identify with sects. These sects divide for whatever reasons and even though various sects identify with the same ideology i.e Muhammad as the Last Prophet, belief in Allah, Angels e.t.c. these sects still have additional ideologies along with Quranic and and Sunnah knowledge. This in itself is impermissble in Islam, like Allah, nothing should be superadded to the unity of Allah's message. Now when you say can one be liberal, reformist orconservattive you are asking a question based on ideology.

These are all attributes of ideology and should have no bearings on religious/spiritual belief as a Muslim cannot be a reformist, conservative feminist in Islamic spiritualist because these are attribtues added to what is already prescribe in God's law so any additional ideologies in my view as well as in Islamic logic are impermissible. I could however explain how these attributes are impermissible but it would take too much time but if you ask I can definitely explain in detail.



Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 5:58am

Bismillah,

In America we have the separation of powers: the executive, the judicial, and the legislative branches of government.  The legislature makes the laws, the judicial interperrets them and the executive enforces them.

These brothers' answers reminded me of this structure.  The Shari'ah laws have been established through interpretations of scholars over time and are unchangeable.  American Law of course can be changed when the current legislature changes.  The scholars of today take these laws and interpret current and new situations for people, but they will always use the old laws. 

If someone has a new interpretation, they are making fitna and regarded as unIslaamic.  There can be no new interpretations.  The judges are there as guides to understanding and applying the old interpretations to today's social and political life.

Now, who are the enforcers of today in Islaam?  What a troublesome question that is. Each country has its own enforcement, and then there are the rogue enforcers who kill others as enforcement.

I have been so busy and haven't had time to pay attention to groups.  The schools of thought are definitely groups.  Sunni and Shiite are definitely groups.  But within them, you have people who are liberal and conservative.  But maybe the conservatives just say the liberals are misguided people rather than labeling them.  And if they stray too far from the accepted interpretations of the laws, they just might say they are not Muslims at all.  They are pickers and choosers et cetera.

But we liberals have labels.  I just haven't had the time to think of too many of them.  Wahabi's interpretations of women's issues are very strict and unbendable.

You know, people say, "He is from the village," or "he is from the city" what does he know.  Things like that.  But since I am not around these people so much, they would have to enlighten you.  Maybe Arabic and Hebrew are similar.  So citylike and country like would be commonly used terms in Arabic to describe someone's attributes and even affiliations.  Each area would have its own terms. 

Like what is a redneck?  I think it is a person who is unwilling to listen to new ideas, but I know the common definition is someone who chews tobacco, rides in a truck, and has fights in bars. 



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 3:04am
Abdnur,
I'm learning a lot here. Thank You. I've seen so much suffering here and
in Palestine. I almost lost my mother my brother and my 2 yearold
Nephew in Nathanya last year to a 17 year old boy who blew him self up.
And I my self was beaten up pretty badly trying to stop an illeagal
demolition in Palestine for which I'm still having corrective surgery - last
one this monday inshAllah. I mean- I make jokes and all, but I'm a
serious peace activist and I need the tools to help fix this- in this case
information to combat dissinformation distrust and hatred.

Herjihad,
A redneck is a person who will stare intently at a tin of frozen orange
juice for hours because it reads above the instructions: Orange Juice
Concentrate.
Danny


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 6:16am

Bismillah,

And it's so easy for us talk when we are not in the middle of a battle like you are.  (Okay.  I did live in a neighborhood that our city called the War Zone.  I often saw the aftermath of the drive-by-shootings, but I was glad to have never been in one.  But that's a different battle.  And I gladly moved away from that situation.  Ma'shahAlah, you are trying to solve yours!)

Maybe you need a sounding board to see reactions and get new ideas from your ideas.  You know so much more than people who aren't in your situation.  And your perspective is important to us.  That's why we came to the interfaith group.

Did you see our question Daniel's Religion under the main category of Interfaith discussion? 

 If you look at the other discussions going on, you'll see that some people insist that if people do not follow their rules,they are not really Muslims.  (I think of them as hardliners.) People grow up with ideas like this, so that maybe it is hardwired into their brains, like Noam Chomsky says language is into everyone's brains.  But, I shouldn't be so negative.  Allah, SWT, led me to Islam, and so there is hope for everybody, and Phalasteen, and Israel also.  We might stop insulting each other long enough to find peace.

LOL.  I think everyone laughed at the redneck joke!  Should I share that with my local red neck population?  Hmm.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 6:46am
I love it. Hard wired hardliners...

It took me awhile to come around to seeing things at eye level with
Muslims. I have to go in alone sometimes to Palestine partly on foot over
road blocks and barriers through orchards and hitch hiking. I'm not an
adrenaline junkie so I am sick with fear sometimes. I don't know if you
heard much there about Rachel Corrie and Tommy Hurdall I was doing
reconnosance for their organisation ISM in Jarjour. Some of my best tips
came from a contact at the U.S. State department.

I'm telling you the truth. The world is divided differently than we think

These hard liners are often good people heroic people to be sure but they
are ignorant of the kindness that exists around them and us.

Also to be sure. We are all vulnerable to bad luck and evil. There's one
for Abdner What is the embodiment of evil in Islam. Is it a focused entity
like a satan or is it the sum of ignorance and confusion?


Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 7:00pm

Thought this might be relevant to some replies:

 

We Won't Forget Rachel Corrie, By ALISON WEIR, CounterPunch, Marc h 15, 2005

http://www.counterpunch.org/weir03152005.html - http://www.counterpunch.org/weir03152005.html

 

There is a quiet battle going on for the memory of a young woman who could have been my daughter, or perhaps yours.

 

On one side are those who would like to erase her from history her actions, her beliefs, her murder. If they are unsuccessful at that, they will settle for posthumous slurs on her character, falsifications of her death.

 

On the other side are those who feel her shining principles should be praised, her courage honored, her death grieved. On this side are those who believe that heroism is noble, bravery admirable, and compassion for others the most fundamental form of morality.

To those of us on this side, Rachel Corrie will never be forgotten. She was 23 when she was killed.

 

We won't forget her young idealism, her sweet bravery, her needless death. And we won't forget her beliefs, the third of which killed her: that good would triumph, that justice would prevail, that Israel would not kill her.

 

She was wrong on that last one. On March 16, 2003, two Israeli soldiers drove a house-crushing bulldozer over her twice crushing her into the Gaza dirt. With five other nonviolent human rights defenders, Rachel had been sitting in front of a family home in Palestine, pleading with Israeli soldiers not to demolish it. They didn't (until later); they demolished her instead.

 

Her friends ran to her screaming. They dug her out of the dirt. One told me that Rachel's eyes were open; her last words were, "My back is broken."

 

Far more, of course, was broken. The day was broken, the universe was broken, her sister's world was broken, her brother's life was broken, her parents' hearts were broken. All the things were broken that break when someone is killed.

 

In the past five years, thousands of Palestinian lives, days, worlds have been broken; hundreds of Israeli ones. We hear about the Israeli tragedies; we rarely hear about the many times more Palestinian ones the mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, sisters and brothers who are killed and mutilated during all those wonderful periods of "relative calm" our news media lie to us about.

 

I wonder if we'll hear about Rachel Corrie on March 16th, the second anniversary of her death. Israel, as with all those it kills, claims that her death "was an accident" or "was necessary for security" or that "she was a terrorist" or that "she was protecting terrorists!" As fast as these Israeli fabrications are refuted, new ones are produced. Never mind that they're self-contradictory our complicit media never question.

 

What Israel says, our media repeat. What Israel demands, our government gives. What Israel wants, its well-greased lobby delivers.

Change is coming, however, and it is gathering momentum. People across the United States remember Rachel, and grieve her death. While Congress is intimidated into denying her parents' right to an investigation of the American "ally" who murdered their daughter, people in towns throughout the United States are planning commemorations and future actions.

 

From across the country, slowly but steadily, there is the start of an American uprising. One by one, people are rising up community by community and town by town. We are deathly tired of gratuitous cruelty and rapacious creeds of violence, and we won't stand by any longer.

 

We are reclaiming our nation, our principles, and our souls. We are the only ones who can do it.

 

We won't forget Rachel.

 

And we won't be stopped.

 

Alison Weir is executive director of If Americans Knew. She can be reached at: alisonweir@yahoo.com

MOCKBA



Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 11:32pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

I love it. Hard wired hardliners...

It took me awhile to come around to seeing things at eye level with
Muslims. I have to go in alone sometimes to Palestine partly on foot over
road blocks and barriers through orchards and hitch hiking. I'm not an
adrenaline junkie so I am sick with fear sometimes. I don't know if you
heard much there about Rachel Corrie and Tommy Hurdall I was doing
reconnosance for their organisation ISM in Jarjour. Some of my best tips
came from a contact at the U.S. State department.

Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh,

 

History & Background:

On 11th April Tom Hurndall - a young photographer observing and recording the work of a peace group in Gaza and the activities of the Israeli army was shot in the head by the Israeli army in the town of Rafah at the border between Gaza and Egypt. He currently lies in a vegetative state at the Royal Hospital for Neurodisability in Putney after suffering severe brain damage from which he is not expected to recover. On 29th May Tom was successfully flown back to the UK from the Saroka Hospital in Beer Sheva - Israel.

The family are committed to finding the truth and to obtaining justice for Tom.

A image while he was working in Rafah Refugee Camp

Rachel CORRIE:



 

 



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