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Printed Date: 17 September 2014 at 4:43pm


Topic: Post of Haris30432
Posted By: haris30432
Subject: Post of Haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 9:35pm

Dear Sister,

With all due respect,i do not wish to learn about any of the messengers of God than what is beyond the Quran.The Quran is perfect, complete and fully detailed.All the details that is required for our salvation is there in the Quran.Anything beyond that, is not necessary for our salvation.It would be hypocritical of me to say that i believe the Quran is sufficient and go to other sources for any kind of guidance.I know Prophet Muhamed was a great prophet like all others before him and that GOD gave him a wonderful character.Now all that knowledge about him in the Quran is sufficient for me.If it wasnt, Quran would have given more details.This is what i believe.I fear idolizing anyone beside GOD and i mean anyone becoz THE ONLY and i mean THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN  if maintained till death is idol worship or assigning partners to GOD.I would like to bring this to your attention that the only one worthy of your full devotion and love is GOD and nobody else.There is no one after ,there is no one before.

"I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD AND HE HAS NO PARTNERS"
 
Peace!


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!



Replies:
Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 8:28am
That was my understanding, he's just like any other prophets. But the brother that introduced me to islam said that since "he was the last prophet and for the all mankid" he's special. I never understood that. He's just a messenger. And WHY IS HE INCLUDED IN OUR PRAYERS?? Don't we have to glorify our Creator only?


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 12:32am
                               OBEY GOD AND OBEY THE MESSENGER?
 
God Almighty , the author of the Quran, has told us that every thing in this universe
is under His control. The Quran, being God's final message to the world has to be under
His complete control.

Its Suras, verses, words, letters, numbers, the order of revelation, the order of writing
of the Quran, the unique spelling of some words, the choice of verbs, adjectives, adverbs,
nouns, the beginning and end of any specific verse or sura, the length of the individual
verses and suras, their naming, the names of people mentioned in the Quran, e.g. Mary,
Muhammed, Noah...etc. Everything that has to do with the Quran is deliberately done by
God Almighty.

The student of the Quran will always learn as permitted by the Most Gracious, as only He
is the Teacher of the Quran, See 55:1-2.

Obey God and Obey Muhammed.

Any student of the Quran will object right away to this expression that he/she never heard
before. We always hear, "Obey God and obey the messenger..." but never "Obey God and
Obey Muhammed ." What is the difference , if any.?

Let us find out first if God mentioned Muhammed by name in the Quran. We know, He did,
actually four times. In 3:144, 33:40, 47:2 and 48:29. How many times did God tell us to "Obey
the messenger" ? There are more

than 25 times in the Quran, where God ordered us to obey the messenger. Not a
single time did God say "Obey Muhammed"

Is this a co-incidnce or a deliberate order?

Only true believers know that everything in God's world is deliberate, nothing is a co-incidence.
Let us find out what God is teaching us about Muhammed.

"Say, (O Muhammed) "I am no more than a human being like you...." 18:110

God Almighty knowing that the Prophet Muhammed is a human being like us, will live his life and run his business like any human being would. He would make mistakes, get angry, have fears, ...etc. Muhammed the human being was the messenger only because of the message given to him, the QURAN.

Muhammed without the Quran is just another human being like us. God wants it to be very
clear to obey the person that has the message, the Quran, for what he has not for who he is.

Obey the messenger is conditional on having the message, the Quran. Obey the messenger because of the message he has, the QURAN. Obey the messenger means to follow his message that is given to him, the QURAN.

Muhammed without the message is just a regular human being, he frowned and turned away when the blind poor man came to him, (See 80:1-11), he feared the people when he was supposed to fear only God, (See 33:37), and he prohibited what he should not prohibit, (See 66:1)

That is why there has never been a single order in the Quran from God,the Most Cognizant to "Obey Muhammed." If we were to obey Muhammed the human being,(not the messenger), we were to frown at the poor, fear the people instead of God and prohibit what God did not. We are required to obey the messenger, because it is the message (QURAN) that made the obedience a requirement, not the person, Muhammed, that made it a requirement.

Those who know Arabic well know that the word (Rasool) in Arabic means both the messenger and the message. So, when God says , obey the (Rasool) , He means both the messenger and the message (QURAN). Both are inseparable. When the messenger, the human being is dead, the true messenger among us becomes the message itself, in this case, the QURAN. God Almighty has called the Quran (Rasool) on many occasions, e.g., 5:15, 11:1-3, 14:1, 27:2, 32:3, 34:6, 42:52, & 65:11.

One great example of the distinction between obeying the messenger (For what he has)
(the Quran) and obeying the human being, is what God told Muhammed's wives; in Sura 33,

"O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits gross sin, the
retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for God to do.
Any one of you who obeys GOD and His MESSENGER, and
leads a righteous life, we will grant her double the recompense,
and we have prepared for her a generous provision."
33:30-31

Notice the order here for the prophet's wives to obey the Messenger, not their husband
or Muhammed. If God would have said to them to obey their husband, the unconditional
obedience of the wife to her husband would have been decreed.

If God would have said, obey Muhammed, it would have made the unconditional
obedience of Muhammed a decree. God wants them and wants us to obey the messenger
(for the message he has, the QURAN).

Muhammed the human being was given the great honor of being chosen the final prophet
of God to deliver the final message, the QURAN, and was described as "blessed with a great
moral character" in 68:4.

We, however have to remember not to make any distinction between him and the rest of
God's messengers, See 2:285. We are to make the distinction between obeying him by
following his message and obeying him by following allegation of what he did as a human
being in his own personal life.

YES, we should obey the messenger. Those who accept the Quran accept the order from
God to "obey the messenger" by following his message, the Quran ALONE. When the prophet
Muhammed died, he left for us ONLY one book, the Quran.

When God told Muhammed in the Quran, "Today I completed your religion for you",
Muhammed had only one book at that time, the Quran. Muhammed gave us one kind of
Islam, that we can find in the book of God, the Quran. He did not leave for us the other
sects of Sunni, Shiite, Ahmaddya, Ismailis…etc. These sects were created when the Muslims
looked for the books of hadiths and sunna to supplement the book
of God. In doing so, they willingly or unwillingly declared that they do not trust God in His
own book. The book that God described as complete, perfect, fully detailed and having
details of everything. See 12:111By doing so, all these sects left God’s kingdom and joined
the same groups who previously corrupted the other religions of God, Judaism and Christianity.

It is very interesting to know that God gave us this prophecy in the Quran and told us the messe
nger will complain to Him on the Last Day that "My people have deserted this Quran." 25:30

"...this is not a fabricated Hadith, this (QURAN) confirms all previous scriptures,
provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those
who believe."
12:111

Peace!



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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 7:52am
Originally posted by Uri S

That was my understanding, he's just like any other prophets. But the brother that introduced me to islam said that since "he was the last prophet and for the all mankid" he's special. I never understood that. He's just a messenger. And 1-WHY IS HE INCLUDED IN OUR PRAYERS?? you see, dear brother, you asked and answered yourself!!Smile Don't we have to glorify our Creator only?


 
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

 I would like to add more questions and want Haris to answer you.. OK?

 2- WHY was every prophet sent just to his people while prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sent to the whole mankind?

 3- Why is his book the Quraan the last book kept from changing?

 4- Why does Allah took the covenant all the prophets and messengers from Adam to Jesus, peace be upon him peace be upon him to believe in the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - 3.81 -   believe in him and render him help." God said: "Do ye agree, and take this my  file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - you among the witnesses."

 5- Why Does Allah make Islam, the LAST message and the ONLY accepted religion his message and you can not be a Muslims until you believe in him?

 6- Why is it ONLY prophet Muhammad who will take the BIGGEST shafa' and all people will go to him at the end after going to all of the prophets peace be upon them?

   Narrated Abu Huraira: We were in the company of the Prophet at a banquet and a cooked (mutton) forearm was set before him, and he used to like it. He ate a morsel of it and said, "I will be the chief of all the people on the Day of Resurrection. Do you know how Allah will gather all the first and the last (people) in one level place where an observer will be able to see (all) of them and they will be able to hear the announcer, and the sun will come near to them. Some People will say: Don't you see, in what condition you are and the state to which you have reached? Why don't you look for a person who can intercede for you with your Lord? Some people will say: Appeal to your father, Adam.' They will go to him and say: 'O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hands, and ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and made you live in Paradise. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Don't you see in what (miserable) state we are, and to what condition we have reached?' On that Adam will reply, 'my Lord is so angry as He has never been before and will never be in the future; (besides), He forbade me (to eat from) the tree, but I disobeyed (Him), (I am worried about) myself! Myself! Go to somebody else; go to Noah.' They will go to Noah and say; 'O Noah! You are the first amongst the messengers of Allah to the people of the earth, and Allah named you a thankful slave. Don't you see in what a (miserable) state we are and to what condition we have reached? Will you not intercede for us with your Lord? Noah will reply: 'Today my Lord has become so angry as he had never been before and will never be in the future Myself! Myself! Go to the Prophet (Muhammad). The people will come to me, and I will prostrate myself underneath Allah's Throne. Then I will be addressed: 'O Muhammad! raise your head; intercede, for your intercession will be accepted, and ask (for anything). for you will be given. "
 Sahih Bukhari, http://www.guidedways.com/book_display.php?translator=1&book=60&start=0&number=236#236 - [60:236]

 

 .... OK answer these and will add more in sha Allah.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  Allah Hadi

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -



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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 8:12am
يم
 اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم
 

   To reject the Hadith is to reject the Quran for all practical purposes

   "Anyone who disobey Allah and His Messenger has wandered off into manifest error." Suratul Ahzaab 33:36

"He who obeys Allah and His Messenger has already achieved a splendid triumph." Suratul Ahzaab 33:71

   For the past fourteen centuries Quran and Sunnah have been the twin undisputed sources of Guidance for Muslims. In every
generation, Muslims devoted the best of their minds and talents to their study. They learnt both the words and meanings of the Quran through the Prophet s.a.s and made an unprecedented effort in preserving them for the next generation. The
result: the development of the marvelous – and unparalleled – science of Hadith, one of the brightest aspects of Muslim
history.

What does it mean to believe in a Prophet except to pledge to follow him?
 And so the teachings of the Prophet s.a.s have always guided this Ummah. Nobody, in his right mind, could or did question this practice.

   Then something happened. During the colonial period, when most of the Muslim world came under the subjugation of the
West, some "scholars" arose in places like Egypt (Taha Hussein), India (Abdullah Chakralwi and Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz)
and Turkey (Zia Gokalp), who began questioning the authenticity and relevance of Hadith. It was not that some genius had
found flaws in the Hadith study that had eluded the entire Ummah for thirteen centuries. It was simply that the pressures
from the dominant Western civilization to conform were to strong for them to withstand. They buckled. Prophetic teachings
and life examples – Hadith – was the obstacle in this process and so it became the target.

   Another factor helped them. Today most Muslims, including the vast majority of the Western educated Muslims, have meager knowledge of Hadith, having spent no time in studying even the fundamentals of this vast subject. How many know
the difference between sahih and hassan, or between maudu and daif? The certification process used in hadith transmission? Names of any hadith book produced in the first century Hijrah, or the number of such books? A majority would probably not be able to name even the six principle Hadith books (Sihah Sittah) or know anything about the history of their compilation. Obviously such atmosphere provides a fertile ground for sowing suspicions and doubts.

 
They sometimes call themselves Ahle Quran or Quranists. This is misleading. For their distinction is not in affirming the Quran, but in rejecting the Hadith. The ideas of munkareen-e-hadith evolve into three mutually contradictory strains.

 The first holds that the job of the Prophet s.a.s was only to deliver the Quran. We are to follow only the Quran and nothing else, as were the companions. Further, Hadith is not needed to understand the Quran, which is sufficient for providing guidance.

 The second group holds that the Companions were required to follow the Prophet s.a.s but we are not.

 The third holds that, in theory, we also have to follow Hadith but we did not receive Hadith through authentic sources and therefore we have to reject all Hadith collections!

Internal contradictions are a hallmark of false ideologies.


  How can anyone hold the first position yet profess belief in the Quran while it says:
"And We have sent down unto You the Message so that you may explain clearly to mankind what was sent down to them, and so that they may give thought." Suratan Nahl 16:44

And this:

"Allah did confer a great favor on the Believers when He sent among them a Messenger from among themselves, who rehearses unto them the Signs of Allah, purifies them, instructs them in Scripture, and teaches them Wisdom, whereas previously they had been in plain error." Surah Al-e-Imran 3:164

  How can anyone hold the second position (limiting the Prophet hood to 23 years) yet profess belief in the Quran, while it
says:

  "We did not send you except as Mercy for everybody in the universe." Suratul Anbiya 21:107
And,

  "And We have not sent you (O Mohammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind."
Suratus Saba 34:28

   The third position seems to have avoided obvious pitfalls, yet in reality it is no different. It agrees that we need Hadith, but then goes on to claim that Allah did not provide what we need for our guidance.
The following are some of the statements normally made by
Hadith rejectors.


The Reliability of Sources:
"We accept Allah's Word that He has protected the Quran from corruption, but why should we accept the words of the
Hadith collectors? Are they as infallible as Allah s.w.t?"

  This makes you wonder whether the Hadith rejectors realize how we received the Quran. For we have received both the Quran and the Hadith through exactly the same channels. The same people transmitted this as the Word of Allah s.w.t and that as the word of the Prophet s.a.s. Even the verse claiming that the Quran will be protected came to us through the same people. Through what logic can anyone declare that the channels are reliable for the Quran and unreliable for Hadith? On the contrary the Quranic promise of protection must apply to Hadith as well for there is no point in protecting the words but not the meanings of the Quran.

  Were Ahadith Written Down For The First Time In The Third Century Of The Hijra?

  The very existence of a huge library of Hadith, the only one of its kind among the religious of the world, assures us that our
expectation that Hadith – the embodiment of Prophetic explanation of the Quran – must have been protected is not in vain.
To dismiss all that as later day fabrication requires lots of guts – and equal parts ignorance.
Were ahadith written down for the first time in the third century of Hijra? Not at all. Actually hadith recording and collection
started at the time of the Prophet s.a.s.
Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al 'As r.a sought and was given the permission to write everything he heard from the Prophet s.a.s:
Sayyidina Abdullah ibn Amr s.a.s reports: "I used to write everything I heard from the Messenger s.a.s as I wanted to
preserve it. The Quraish forbade me, saying: 'Do you write everything that you hear [from him] and the Messenger is a
human being who sometimes speaks in anger and joy?' [i.e. he may say something under the influence of emotions that
may not be worth writing.] So I stopped. Then I mentioned this to the Messenger s.a.s. He pointed with his fingers to his
mouth and said:
"Write! By the One in Whose Hands is my life! Nothing proceeds from here except the truth."
– Abu Dawood, 3161

    He produced Sahifa Sadiqa, which contained more than six thousand ahadith.

Anas ibn Malik r.a, who spent ten years in Prophet's household, not only recorded the ahadith but also presented them to the
Prophet s.a.s and got corrections. Abu Hurairah r.a. had many volumes of his collections and even produced smaller compilations for his students. Prominent Hadith scholar Dr. Mustafa Azami has shown in his doctoral thesis that in the first century of Hijra many hundred booklets of hadith were in circulation. By the end of the second century, "by the most conservative estimates there were many thousands."
Off course most of these books do not exist today. They were simply absorbed into the encyclopedic collections that
emerged in the third century. One manuscript from the first century was discovered in this century and published by Dr.Hamidullah. It is Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbah, who was a disciple of Abu Hurairah r.a. It contains 138 ahadith.

   Muhaditheen knew that the ahadith of this Sahifa had been absorbed into Musnad Ahmed and Muslim collections., which
have been published continuously since their third century debut. After the discovery of the original manuscript it was  naturally compared with the ahadith in Muslim and Musnad Ahmed that were thought to have come from that Sahifa. And what did they find? There was not an iota of difference between the two. Similarly Mussanaf of Abd Al Razzaq is extant and has been published. As has been Mu'ammar ibn Rashid's al-Jami. The recent appearance of these original manuscripts should bring the most skeptical into the fold of believers.
Salat And Hadith Rejectors
"The Messenger s.a.s may have elaborated on items like mode of salat. Such hadith is probably from the Messenger s.a.s and should be obeyed. But we cannot believe the rest of the ahadith."

The Hadith rejecters have a particularly difficult time explaining how to offer salat if we are to throw away the Hadith.. So
they offer concessions like the one quoted above. But we don't need a favor for Hadith about salat (coming from the same
books and the same narrators who are declared as unreliable). We need an answer to this question.: If the Quran is the only authentic source of Guidance, why did it never explain how to offer salat, although it repeatdly talks about its importance, associating it with eternal success and failure? What would we think of a communication that repeatedly emphasizes a certain act but never explains how to perform it? There are only two possibilities. Either it is a terrible omission (and in that case it cannot be from God) or another source for the how-to information is provided and it is a
terrible mistake for any recipient to ignore that.

   Some Hadith rejectors have realized the difficulty of their position on Salat. But they have made a claim that is even more ludicrous, namely that the Quran gives details on how to offer salat. "A Careful reading of the Quran reveals that we are to get our salat from the Masjid al Haram [the continuous practice at Makkah since the time of Abraham]," says one proponent, "specifically the place of Abraham (Muqam-e-Ibrahim)." Let us leave aside all those practical questions about such a fluid answer. Whose salat? When? Are we to follow anyone and everyone we find praying at Maqam-e-Ibrahim. How are those offering salat there to determine the proper way of offering it? How do you resolve their differences? In his enthusiasm in proposing this innovative solution, this proponent even forgot that
the Quran says the following about the
salat of mushrikeen (polytheists) at the Masjid al Haram:
"Their prayer at the House of Allah is nothing but whistling and clapping. (its only answer can be)
"Taste  chastisement because you blasphemed." Suratul Anfal 8:35
The Sahih And The Gospels

"Hadith is the same as the Gospels of Christianity. Indeed the time span between the death of the Messenger and the compilation of the Sahihs was almost the same as that between the departure of Jesus a.s and the compilation of the Bible. How can Muslims accept one and reject the other?"

  Regarding the comparison of the Sahih with the Gospels, let's listen to Dr. Hamidullah.

"The compilation of the Gospels, their preservation and transmission from one generation to the other, has not taken place
in the way which governed the books of hadith… We do not know who wrote them, who translated them, and who transmitted them. How were they transferred from the original Aramaic to Greek? Did the scribes make arrangements for a faithful reproduction of the original? The four Gospels are mentioned, for the first time, three hundred years after Christ.
Should we rely on such an unauthentic book in preference to that of Bukhari who prefaces every statement of two lines with
three to nine references?"
"Allah s.w.t has protected only the Quran – not Islam – from corruption."

To say that Allah s.w.t. promised to protect only the Quran but not Islam is being as ridiculous as one can get.
Let's ignore the obvious question regarding the point of this Heavenly act. The question is if Islam has been corrupted and its true  teachings have been lost, how can anyone claim to be its follower?

  
Moreover the quran says:
"Anyone who desires something other than Islam as a religion will never have it accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he will among the losers." Surah al-eImran 3:85

How are we to follow the religion acceptable to Allah s.w.t if it was not to be protected?

The Commnts Of Dr. Maurice Bucaille
"Dr. Maurice bucaille finds that Sahih bukhari is as unscientific as the bible"
Dr. Maurice Bucaille earned the admiration of many Muslims because of his study of some scientific phenomena mentioned in
the Quran and his testimony based on that study the Quran must be the book of Allah. However he is not a Hadith scholar
and it is unfair to drag him into this discussion. His account of history of hadith compilation contains many errors, for
example the claim that the first gathering of hadith was performed roughly forty years after Hijra or that no instructions were given regarding hadith collection. He questions about a dozen or so entries in Bukhari that he thinks deal with scientific matters. Even if that criticism were valid, would it be sufficient ground to throw away the 9082 toital entires (2602 unique ahadith) in Bukhari? He himself does not think so for he writes. "

  The truth of hadith from a religious point of view, is beyond question."

The Hadith Regarding The Sun But even his criticism is of questionable value. Consider the hadith about the sun: "At sunset the sun protrates itself underneath the Throne and takes permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then a time will come when it be about to prostrate itself…it will seek permission to go on its course… it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the West." His criticism: This implies a notion of a course the sun runs in relation to the earth." Bucaille fails to
understand the real message of this hadith. It was not meant to teach astronomy. It's clear message is that the sun is the slave of Allah, moving always through His Will. The Hadith brings out that message very powerfully so that even the most illiterate bedouin can understand it fully.
Even today astronomers, when calculating the time of sunrise and sunset, use a mathematical model in which the sun revolves around the earth. If that is acceptable for scientific work as it makes calculations easier, why is it questionable when it makes communication easier?

   Also there are other ahadith which clearly demonstrate a scientific fact beyond the knowledge of the times but Bucaille has
failed to take notice. For example the hadith about solar eclipse:
"The sun and moon are two signs from the Signs of Allah. They are not eclipsed on account of anyone's death or on account of anyone's birth, but Allah sends them to strike fear in hearts of His servants." Bukhari 990
The eclipse had coincided with the death of the Prophet's s.a.s son. A false prophet would have tried to exploit the occasion.
A fabricated hadith would require scientific knowledge on part of the fabricator that did not exist then.
To reject the Hadith is to reject the Quran for all practical purposes. The idea was concocted as a means of undermining the Quran while on the surface affirming faith in it.

    It
is time those who were misled by it out ignorance threw away this of our colonial past into the trash bin of history where it belongs.



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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 8:44am

 To you two brothers, I advise by  the name of Allah and then the name of prophet Muhhamed peace  be upon him and the name of the truth.. and the name of brotherhood to repent to Allah/God and be back to His way.. Stop obeying your nafs and Shaytan, cause he will leave you alone on that day and say, keep away from me, I just told you something and you believed me:

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - 14.22 - I had no authority -   your own souls. -   former act in associating me with God. For wrong-doers there must be  a grievous

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - ________________________________________________

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -   file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - 6.153 - follow not (other) file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - -   they will scatter you about from His (great) path: thus doth He command you. that ye file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -  

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -   - Believe me,, it is so easy for us to be mislead if we are away from Allah and his prophet's peace be upon him way..  Just keep asking Allah every prayer to guide you into the truth and keep you on it.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - -  
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)



Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 12:47pm
Salams all,

This is very interesting.
And I have to say I agree with Haris.
Muhammed (pbuh) was a messenger. He had the authority from Allah, as did all prophets from Adam, to spread the truth. No other human being after Muhammed has that authority. So hadiths and sunnahs are, as far as I am concerned, only words of man, not Allah. This is the big difference between Muhammed(pbuh) and scholars etc.

It is not necessary to know what Muhammed's life was like at all. This was not his purpose. We know very little, other than through scriptures, what any of the prophets were like. As messengers it is not necessary. THe fact that they are messengers of Allah is sufficient for us to accept that they are chosen men of Allah. If we cannot accept them on this alone then we show we have little faith in Allah, and that we doubt His word.

TBH any muslim who needs to rely on a hadith spoken of by many conflicting sources shows that they do not trust the Qur'an is perfect and complete. Again I say, Islam does not need to contain a biography of the Prophet(pbuh) THe Qur'an is enough...and I have often said so.

Well done Brother Haris. I commend you for your openness on these matters discussed here.

So sorry FOH, Haris, Uri and myself do not feel we need to repent on the grounds that we follow all messengers, and Allah's word before Muhammed and ending with him when the Qur'an was revealed. We are not being mislead. We follow the Qur'an... it is all that Allah needs us to do.

(scholars are not chosen to be messengers. They are just human like you and me, and they all vary on their ideas.)



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 1:13pm
 
 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

  
 
 Please sister Martha, I know you very well and have so much respect to you.. Please do not reply without having enough knowledge about the post and the author, otherwise Allah will ask you about EVERYTHING. this man  Haris REFUSES the whole Hadith and Sunna. Please read his other posts.
  I replied to him, just to make sure that everyone here is aware of this BIDA'A (false belief).

  Now, I am glad that I did my job of telling people here that this idea of rejecting Hadith is not in Islam at all. NO ONE can say he is a Muslim while he rejects the half of Islam. I do not have enough time for more. I pray that Allah guides the lost.
 


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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 1:26pm
Walaikum assalam,

Dear sister, you are so kind to be concerned. I did read Haris' posts..and is why I wanted to reply.
I do not worry what Allah will ask of me. I do not seek anything other than the Qur'an. For 6 years I have been confused as to why scholars are so different. For me they are not necessary. God's word through HIs messengers only is enough for me. And Haris has helped solidify my thoughts on this.

Bless you sister for your love.



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by martha


I do not worry what Allah will ask of me.
 
OK dear, be careful of this sentence. You are a Muslim and you must worry.
 
  And yeah I did not tell you to reject Quraan, I just told you that you need the hadith as well to be a Muslim. You need to beieve in everything came from prophet Muhammed peace be upon him.
 
  Did you read my post above?
 
 We all need more knowledge cause this knowledge is the weapon that we fights the false with it. Without knowledge, we will be affected by anyone.
  Alhamdulillah, You can be perfect in Quraan and perfect in Hadith as well. I know you can do it..
 
 Peace.
 Allah Hafiz..
 
 
 BUT you know what dear sister,

   ....I never saw anyone say: OK, I do not know. Let me ask.
   People talk from their own minds and opinions more than going back to Qura'an and Hadith. I see religion and people say,, Oh I like this and I do not like that. While the signs of TRUE believers that they just say: ACCEPTED.
 
   I saw sooooo many many arguments between Muslims and non-Muslims and NO ONE, said ok I believe, OK you are right... which is hopeless.Cry Non-Muslims are helped by the shytan always to answer even if it is nonsense.
 May Allah forgive me and all Muslims here and guide the lost into the truth.
 


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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 2:25pm

Dear FOH,

Of what should I worry? Worry is negative. It is better to be positive and try to do the best each day. Allah knows


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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 6:33pm

Everyone,
 
Please discuss one point at a time, being as specific as possible. Furthermore, please keep in mind the rule:
 

4. When discussing issues dealing with Islam, please support your comments with the Quran or Sunnah. Mocking any Quranic reference, Hadith, scholar, or member will not be tolerated. If you are stating something about a religion, please list your source. If it is an opinion, please state this fact.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589 -

Now back to the topic:

harris 30432,
 
(I have slightly edited my last post here, the verse was 57:7 and not 57:5: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16275&PN=5 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16275&PN=5 )
 

"Believe in Allah and His apostle, and spend (in charity) out of the (substance) whereof He has made you heirs. For, those of you who believe and spend (in charity),- for them is a great Reward." Qur'an 57:7

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!”

Qur’an 47:33

 

 "…And We have sent down unto you (O Muhammad) the Reminder, that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought." Qur’an 16: 44

 

"…(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." Qur’an 4: 59

 

"Whoever obeys the Messenger, has obeyed Allaah." Qur’an 4: 80

 

As can be seen, the verse clearly says Allah and apostle. If the Qur’an is only what Allah wanted, why was the need for the Messenger to spend 23 years to explain it? Why wasn’t it delivered just in one shot?

 You should be a role model to deliver a divine message. I give you a simple example. If you want to learn driving and just read a manual, can you learn it without any instructor’s help? And if some are really exceptional to do so, most people are not, they need to learn driving by the help of an instructor.  

Now talking about the divine matters, much more important compared to the simple example given earlier, there has to be someone to explain the Qur’an. That is why there was a Messenger to do so. The Messenger was the role model. He explained everything by practically showing it to the people so that they could believe, or at least there would be no valid reason for the disbelievers not to believe. For it would be a different thing to reject the message out of arrogance. Basically, the hadith and sunnah are the interpretations of the Qur’an.

Here is an example:

“And establish the prayers and give Zakaah (the obligatory charity) and bow with those who bow [in worship and obedience].”

Qur’an 2:43

The command related to how to establish prayers is found in sunnah, not in Qur’an. The sunnah contains “How”, “When”, “Who” of the directive.  

Islam is a way of life. So, we needed the Messenger to explain to us every aspect of our lives.  



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 10:25pm
Peace,
 
The command related to how to establish prayers is found in sunnah, not in Qur’an. The sunnah contains “How”, “When”, “Who” of the directive.  

Islam is a way of life. So, we needed the Messenger to explain to us every aspect of our lives.

 
From your post it is very clear that your messenger now is not the Quran but the Hadith and Sunnah.I am very curious to know if the Hadith explains all the 114 chapters in the Quran.As fas as i know,the hadith barely explains(i doubt that :D) half the Quran.What about the rest????  Who is going to explain the rest??
 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 3:41am
Originally posted by haris30432

Peace,
 
The command related to how to establish prayers is found in sunnah, not in Qur’an. The sunnah contains “How”, “When”, “Who” of the directive.  

Islam is a way of life. So, we needed the Messenger to explain to us every aspect of our lives.

 
From your post it is very clear that your messenger now is not the Quran but the Hadith and Sunnah.I am very curious to know if the Hadith explains all the 114 chapters in the Quran.As fas as i know,the hadith barely explains(i doubt that :D) half the Quran.What about the rest????  Who is going to explain the rest??
 
 
You didn’t answer my question. You are only beating about the bush. Where is the directive to offer the prayers with regards to “how”, “when”, and “who.” As I mentioned earlier, you should be specific and answer what is being asked. Please don’t waste your time and mine as well.
 
Peace


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 8:47am
Assalam alaikum,

OK, now I am confused peacemaker. Why does the group the Nation of Islam say all sects of Islam are false? (Though logically it would make sense there should only be one)BTW I came upon the site whilst researching hadiths/sunnahs


My question then is are there other Islamic groups that do not follow hadiths and sunnahs? And why is that? As, to be honest, I would also say that it is logical not to use anything other than the Qu'ran. Perhaps I am missing something [IMG]smileys/smiley5.gif" align="middle" />

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 9:04am
Originally posted by martha

Assalam alaikum,

OK, now I am confused peacemaker. Why does the group the Nation of Islam say all sects of Islam are false? (Though logically it would make sense there should only be one)BTW I came upon the site whilst researching hadiths/sunnahs


My question then is are there other Islamic groups that do not follow hadiths and sunnahs? And why is that? As, to be honest, I would also say that it is logical not to use anything other than the Qu'ran. Perhaps I am missing something [IMG]smileys/smiley5.gif" align="middle" />
 
Martha,
 

As per the rules of the forum, I had to delete the link.

"We request you not to post URLs of sites the sole existence of which is to slander a religion or spread lies about it. Even if the intention is good. Doing so means promoting the site for free."
 
forum_posts.asp?TID=4589 - Guidelines
 
There are many such groups that have been declared non-Muslims by the consensus of Islamic scholarship. With regards to your question, please follow the thread and read my previous post. Hadith and Sunnah are basically the interpretation of the Qur’an.

May Allah guide us all.           

         


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 9:20am

OK, thankyou brother

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 9:23am
Originally posted by martha


OK, thankyou brother
 
You are welcome, sister. Jazak Allah Khair.
 
 


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 11:57pm
"There are many such groups that have been declared non-Muslims by the consensus of Islamic scholarship. With regards to your question, please follow the thread and read my previous post. Hadith and Sunnah are basically the interpretation of the Qur’an.

May Allah guide us all."

I am  again very curious to know if the Hadith explains all the 114 chapters in the Quran.As fas as i know,the hadith barely explains(i doubt that :D) half the Quran.What about the rest????  Who is going to explain the rest??.Do u have an answer?i hope im not beating around the bush this time.
 
Peace!
  


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 08 February 2010 at 11:06am
Originally posted by haris30432

I am  again very curious to know if the Hadith explains all the 114 chapters in the Quran.As fas as i know,the hadith barely explains(i doubt that :D) half the Quran.What about the rest????  Who is going to explain the rest??.Do u have an answer?i hope im not beating around the bush this time.
 
Peace!
  
 
Yes, there are many verses in the Qur’an that are of general nature and that are self-explanatory. For example, don’t lie etc. Then there are the verses that have a context, and that need to be explained further. Others require procedural explanation. 
 
For example, I asked you the question about Salat. The command of the prayer is in the Qur’an, but its details as to how to pray is in Sunnah. The Messenger explained this Qur’anic command by explaining it and practically showing it.
 
The words and explanations of the Messenger, also inspired by Allah, are in the Sunnah.
 
May Allah guide us all.
 
Peace


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 4:11am
haris30432,
 
You didn't answer my question about prayers. Instead you have posted materials in bulk from unislamic sources that are not allowed in this forum. 
 
Stick to the point and none of your posts will be deleted. You have still not answered my question as to where is the description for "how" and "when" about the prayers. Where do you find them? Please discuss and I don't want to see anymore posting from unislamic sources.
 
Proselytizing anywhere in the forum, publicly or privately, goes against the rules. You should be a learner or discuss in the public.
 
And this is a warning.  


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 8:46pm
Peace,
 
My postings where adequately supported by verses from the Quran.How can that be unislamic?.Why do u call them unislamic?.I have answered many of your questions but ur question here is unclear .What do u mean "how" "when"?Is this question about the Quran?Can u explain why you are asking this, if it is about the Quran?.Im sorry but im trying to understand your question better and the reason behind this question.Please be kind to clarify once again and then i may be able to answer ur question Inshallah.


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 8:57pm
Yes, there are many verses in the Qur’an that are of general nature and that are self-explanatory. For example, don’t lie etc. Then there are the verses that have a context, and that need to be explained further. Others require procedural explanation. 
 
Well i dont know if this is the right place and ur free to move it if its not. Can u please explain the below verse for a start.And then God willing i will post some more so that you can help me learn the real meaning behind them.
 

[25:30] The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."



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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 12:25am
Also , haris can you prove from Qur'an that if its permitted for men to wear gold and silk ?

What about eating meat of tiger and other carnivorous ? And yes, how shud one perform Hajj ?
 
Qur'an commands to chop off hands of a thief ? Shud every theif's hands  be chopped ?
 
 
Allah commands us at many places in Qur'an to obey the messenger. How shud we obey a messenger when reject all the hadiths.
 
Ayesha RA once said that Prophet {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam}'s character was Qur'an. What else does one need to stay behind accepting hadiths. Are we not asked to take our Prophet as our ideal ?
 
We go for Quran and sunnah, if needed go for Ijtihaad/qiyaas/ -- anyways, answer all the above questions, and what shud be our approach in such conditions
 


 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 1:00am
Originally posted by haris30432

"There are many such groups that have been declared non-Muslims by the consensus of Islamic scholarship. With regards to your question, please follow the thread and read my previous post. Hadith and Sunnah are basically the interpretation of the Qur’an.

May Allah guide us all."

I am  again very curious to know if the Hadith explains all the 114 chapters in the Quran.As fas as i know,the hadith barely explains(i doubt that :D) half the Quran.What about the rest????  Who is going to explain the rest??.Do u have an answer?i hope im not beating around the bush this time.
 
Peace!
  
 
Hadith are used to understand Qura'n in its context wherever needed. By the way, is it mentioned in Qur'an that one shud not eat cats, Leopard and can eat goat, cow , camel etc ! Anyways,
 
Read this hadith : The Prophet sent Muadh bin Jabal to Yemen as their judge and governor. Before Muadh left the Prophet, he asked the latter on what basis would he judge if he was confronted with a problem.
 
Muadh said that he would judge on the basis of the contents of the Quran.
 
The Prophet asked him, "assuming that you do not find it in the Quran, on what basis would you judge",
 
Muadh said he would judge on the basis of the Sunnah of the Prophet.
 
 The Prophet also asked him, "assuming that you do not find it both in the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophets, on what basis would you judge",
 
Muadh bin Jabal replied that he would use his own individual judgment.
 
 And the Prophet was very happy to hear this statement".
 
This hadith shud explain you everything.
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 3:39am

Also , haris can you prove from Qur'an that if its permitted for men to wear gold and silk ?
There is no prohibition as such mentioned in the Quran Mashallah.Men can wear silk or Gold if they want to.If there is such a prohibition please show me a clear verse in the Quran i would love to study it.

What about eating meat of tiger and other carnivorous ? And yes, how shud one perform Hajj ?
 
Everthing thing that needs to be prohibited has been specifically mentioned in the Quran.One is free to eat any food that is LAWFUL and GOOD.Now which are the unlawful ones have been specifically mentioned in the Quran.Now if you are sure that Tiger meat is GOOD(which is your duty to find out) ,tasty and it wouldnt hurt your health in anyway u can go ahead and eat it. The following verses in the Quran will hopefully clear things for you.
 
[2:168] O people, eat from the earth's products all that is lawful and good, and do not follow the steps of Satan; he is your most ardent enemy.

Only Four Meats Prohibited*

[2:172] O you who believe, eat from the good things we provided for you, and be thankful to GOD, if you do worship Him alone.

[2:173] He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 3:53am
ANCHORFREE_VERSION="502091223"
Hajj
 
Like all the rituals of Islam, Abraham was the first receiver of Hajj ritual. He passed these rituals from one generation to another.You can see that GOD taught Prophet Abraham the rituals of Islam in the Quran(21:73).The Hajj is no exception(22:26,27).
 

The Rites of Hajj in the Quran

The commencement of Hajj

[2:189] They ask you about the phases of the moon! Say, "They provide a timing device for the people, and determine the time of Hajj." It is not righteous to beat around the bush; righteousness is attained by upholding the commandments and by being straightforward. You shall observe GOD, that you may succeed. 

The 12th month of the Islamic calendar is called Zul-Hijja and it is the first of the four consecutive months 12th , 1st , 2nd and 3rd during which God decreed the Hajj.   The birth of the new moon of the month of  Zul Al-Hijja signals the beginning of the four months of Hajj.

The Duration of Hajj 

The duration of Hajj is given in 2:197 which reads:

"Hajj shall be observed in the specified months. Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence."

Abstentions (Ehraam) during Hajj

Hunting is prohibited during Hajj.

"You shall not permit hunting throughout Hajj pilgrimage. GOD decrees whatever He wills. "5:1 See also 5:2 and 5:95

All warfare is prohibited in the Sacred months of Hajj except in self defense.

"They ask you about the Sacred Months and fighting therein: say, ‘Fighting therein is a sacrilege." 2:217

 Sexual intercourse, misconduct and arguments prohibited

"....Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj."  2:197

During Hajj, abstaining from cutting one’s hair is a requirement as per 2:196

" You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and `Umrah for GOD. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination." 2:196

The ‘Tawaaf’ (circling the Ka'ba)

Tawaf is mentioned in the following verse.

[22:29] "They shall complete their obligations, fulfill their vows, and visit the ancient shrine (Tawaf)."

The Safa and Marwah

[2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient."

Mount Arafat and Muzdalifah

These two rites are mentioned in 2:198:

"When you file from `Arafat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah)."

 

Mena

The visit to Mena is mentioned in the following verse:

"You shall commemorate God for a number of days (in Mena). Whoever who hastens to do this in two days commits no sin, and whoever stays longer commits no sin, as long as righteousness is maintained." 2:203

Animal Offerings

The animal offerings during hajj, see 22:36

[22:36] "The animal offerings are among the rites decreed by GOD for your own good. You shall mention GOD's name on them while they are standing in line. Once they are offered for sacrifice, you shall eat therefrom and feed the poor and the needy. This is why we subdued them for you, that you may show your appreciation

 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 4:24am
You can reply me here haris, rather than PM. I wish to continue discussions over boards rather than thru PMs.

I do hold answers to the reply you made.Alhamdullilah



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 10:29am
Peace,
 
Id love to reply in the forum itself God willing.And im eager to know ur understanding.Mashallah..every oppurtunity to learn is his mercy and blessing.


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 3:16am
 
By the way you did not answer question about how to offer salah, {am referring to post of Br. Peacemaker} also these two questions.
 
Qur'an commands to chop off hands of a thief ? Shud every theif's hands  be chopped ?
 
 
Allah commands us at many places in Qur'an to obey the messenger. How shud we obey a messenger when reject all the hadiths.
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 10:28am
Originally posted by haris30432

Also , haris can you prove from Qur'an that if its permitted for men to wear gold and silk ?
There is no prohibition as such mentioned in the Quran Mashallah.Men can wear silk or Gold if they want to.If there is such a prohibition please show me a clear verse in the Quran i would love to study it.

"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed Allah. If anyone turns away ---" - Surah Nisa 89.
 
This ayah teaches me to obey messenger. I try my best to obey messenger thru his sayings. - It was reported that the Prophet (peace be on him) took some silk in his right hand and some gold in his left, declaring, "These two are haram for the males among my  followers." (Reported by Ahmad, Abu Daoud, al-Nisai, Ibn Hayyan, and lbn Majah, who reports the additional phrase, "but halal for the females.")
 
'Umar reported that he heard the Prophet (peace be on him) say, "Do not wear silk, for those who wear it in this life shall not wear it in the Hereafter." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim. A Similar hadith is reported by them on the authority of Anas.) On another occasion, referring to a silken garment, he said, "This is the dress of a man who has no character.'' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)
 
What about eating meat of tiger and other carnivorous ? And yes, how shud one perform Hajj ?
 
Everthing thing that needs to be prohibited has been specifically mentioned in the Quran.One is free to eat any food that is LAWFUL and GOOD.Now which are the unlawful ones have been specifically mentioned in the Quran.
 
What do you say about this ayah - “O ye who believe! Fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals with the exceptions named.” - What are these exceptions made ?
 
 
Now if you are sure that Tiger meat is GOOD(which is your duty to find out) ,tasty and it wouldnt hurt your health in anyway u can go ahead and eat it. 
 
Whoever the first person is to taste and get tested if that meat of tiger is good for his health, will he not get into haraam {if its later proved to be harmful for health, acc to your concept}. Like wise, does one need to eat every animal and make a test !!!
 
Hadiths {sayings of prophet} clearly forbid us. Infact it makes us clear which kind of animals are lawful and unlawful. Allah swt made deen easy for us, why shud one harden over oneself ?
 
Suppose by having mutton, one's health  gets affected, shud he state it as haraam for all or  just himself ? If that individual considers it as haraam for himself, then every muslim is to likewise make a test of every animal to be eaten !! Meanwhile, if its hurts his health {in your words}, then he tasted haraam !! What a theory of you people ! Confused
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 10:44am
Originally posted by haris30432

ANCHORFREE_VERSION="502091223"
Hajj
 
Like all the rituals of Islam, Abraham was the first receiver of Hajj ritual. He passed these rituals from one generation to another.You can see that GOD taught Prophet Abraham the rituals of Islam in the Quran(21:73).The Hajj is no exception(22:26,27).
 

The Rites of Hajj in the Quran

The Duration of Hajj 

The duration of Hajj is given in 2:197 which reads:

"Hajj shall be observed in the specified months. Whoever sets out to observe Hajj shall refrain from sexual intercourse, misconduct, and arguments throughout Hajj. Whatever good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. As you prepare your provisions for the journey, the best provision is righteousness. You shall observe Me, O you who possess intelligence."

What are those specified months. Can you let me know thru any ayah ?
 
" You shall observe the complete rites of Hajj and `Umrah for GOD. If you are prevented, you shall send an offering, and do not resume cutting your hair until your offering has reached its destination." 2:196
 
How shud one do his Umrah ? How does ayaat explain us ?

The ‘Tawaaf’ (circling the Ka'ba)

Tawaf is mentioned in the following verse.

[22:29] "They shall complete their obligations, fulfill their vows, and visit the ancient shrine (Tawaf)."

 
How many times shud i do the tawaf ? Where in Qur'an is it mentioned so ? By the way, how does the ayah explain you the words in the brackets as tawaf ?
 
 
The Safa and Marwah

[2:158] The knolls of Safa and Marwah are among the rites decreed by GOD. Anyone who observes Hajj or `Umrah commits no error by traversing the distance between them. If one volunteers more righteous works, then GOD is Appreciative, Omniscient."

 
Again, can you let me know, how many times shud i move between Safa and Marwah ?
 
Mount Arafat and Muzdalifah

These two rites are mentioned in 2:198:

"When you file from `Arafat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah)."

How did you conclude that the sacred location is Muzdalifah ? Ayat does n't clearly tells us that its Muzdalifah, right ?
 

Mena

The visit to Mena is mentioned in the following verse:

"You shall commemorate God for a number of days (in Mena). Whoever who hastens to do this in two days commits no sin, and whoever stays longer commits no sin, as long as righteousness is maintained." 2:203

 
How do you know that its Mena ?
 
Also, you must not be holding any sanctity of Zam-zam, station  of Ibrahim, Black stone, stoning over satan {Rami} -- Whats the ruling for those who break the rules while hajj ? {Answer these thru Qur'an }
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 10:48am

Allâh talks about the unbelievers in the depths of the Fire saying, "On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they will say, 'Would that we had obeyed Allâh and that we had obeyed the Messenger.' " (33:66) They will wish they had obeyed when the wish will not profit them.

What do we mean by obeying messenger as mentioned in the above ayah ?
 
Allâh also says, "You have a good model in the Messenger of Allâh for one who hopes for Allâh and the Last Day."
 
How shud i take Messenger of Allah as my model in my daily life ? {Explain to me thru ayaat
 

"If you quarrel over something, then refer it back to Allâh and His Messenger," (4:58)

How shud one refer back to messenger, as commanded at the ayah above ?
 
I wish you to answer all my questions, of all the posts posted today.
 
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 12:09pm

I am not progressing any further forward in regards to this thread.

The Qur'an is perfect..they are words from God passed through Muhammed(pbuh)

The hadiths are Muhammeds words only aren;t they? Or did the words for hadiths come by way of God?

Muhammed (pbuh) had a great mind and many opinions, but as haris has mentioned way back this does not mean we have to revere Muhammed. It sounds so similar to the Catholics with the Virgin Mary here :( I just can;t get my head around this at all.



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 12:10pm
Peace,
"Whoever obeys the messenger has obeyed Allah. If anyone turns away" - Surah Nisa 89.
 
 
I see that the basic problem here is the difference in understanding that we have about obeying the messenger.Now ur belief is that if you follow the hadiths which were reported by a third party(credible ones according to you which i perfectly respect)you follow Prophet Muhammad.My understanding however is that if i follow the Quran which i believe is the best hadith from GOD and which came out of the Prophet's mouth,i follow the messenger.Now this is my understanding which you are free to reject.Since both of us believe in the Quran, I had given number of verses from the Quran supporting my understanding.More explanation about this was given in my earlier post which i again request you to go through.
 
What do you say about this ayah - “O ye who believe! Fulfil (all) obligations. Lawful unto you (for food) are all four-footed animals with the exceptions named.” - What are these exceptions made ?
id like a verse number too please so that i can study it Inshallah.
 
Whoever the first person is to taste and get tested if that meat of tiger is good for his health, will he not get into haraam if its later proved to be harmful for health. Like wise, does one need to eat every animal and make a test !!!
 
 God does not hold you accountable for anything that is not done intentionally,delibrately or maliciously.God is most merciful,All knowing, forgiver.All praise be to him alone :).
Suppose by having fish, one's health  gets affected, shud he state it as haraam for all or oneself ? If that individual considers it as haraam for himself, then every muslim is to likewise make a test of every animal to be eaten !! Meanwhile, if its hurts his health {in your words}, then he tasted haraam !! What a theory of you people ! Confused
 
There mayve been people who have done exactly that in the past.And it seems like some of them are still going on prohibiting things which GOD never did.The only one who can prohibit anything is GOD.No one else is authorized but GOD.When God says "Lawful and good" he means "good" in a general sense.Fish is generally considered as good food with lots of nutrients Mashallah but for some fish can cause allergies that doesnt mean they are haraam.What is haraam has been clearly mentioned in the Quran.Anything more than that i believe are innovations.
     


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 12:27pm

Regarding Hajj.. i will give inshallah more details very soon.However,i again wish to repeat that we learn from the Quran that all religious rituals of Islam were given to Prophet Ibrahim.This has been given down to generations exactly as it was.The corruptions that had crept into those practices has been clearly pointed out by the Quran.So minus those corruptions the perfect rituals were existant and are still existant even today.And this is exactly y they are not detailed in the Quran.When God says "eat",does anyone ask what "eat" means?how does a person eat?Where are the details of "eat"?Explanation and details are only required when something new is revealed.When God says something,we just hear,we obey and we believe,that is IF we are true believers.So when he says that the Quran is complete and fully detailed, IT JUST IS.NO IFS NO BUTS.God does not run out of words.GOD does not contradict himself. All glory to Him ALONE! :).

Ps:The above is my understanding from the study of the Quran ,you are free to reject or accept.There is no compulsion in religion.No info is to be accepted without verification :).
 
Peace! 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 3:11pm
Ahh Martha, you get into the crux of the whole thing.   Smile

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by haris30432

Yes, there are many verses in the Qur’an that are of general nature and that are self-explanatory. For example, don’t lie etc. Then there are the verses that have a context, and that need to be explained further. Others require procedural explanation. 
 
Well i dont know if this is the right place and ur free to move it if its not. Can u please explain the below verse for a start.And then God willing i will post some more so that you can help me learn the real meaning behind them.
 

[25:30] The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."


OMG I thought you were smarter than that bro!
It is so simple if one reads the section from #21...it is even pretty clear for illiterate person like me! This is about the people who would abandon Islam after finding the light  being in the company of the worldly friends...If you want the  particular case then you go to the sunnah commentators and find in this case it was about "Uqba" The conversation is between Allah and the Prophet(s)
Got to run..be back


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by martha


I am not progressing any further forward in regards to this thread.
I can see why!

The Qur'an is perfect..they are words from God passed through Muhammed(pbuh)
OK ! then Islam is a way of life not just listening of words those passed through Mhmd(s) It covers the whole gamut from cradle to grave and hereafter; the relationships and functioning of home and state and contracts...The Quran provides the constitution and science of sunnah comes up with the case law...that is where rubber hits the road meaning after the witnessing how to conduct oneself in new Islamic society...The problem has risen in the nueva riche in  places like ME they want no case law and want to interpret things on their own!  I hope this will sufice for now!
The hadiths are Muhammeds words only aren;t they? Or did the words for hadiths come by way of God?
It is a mix bag, need to double check!

Muhammed (pbuh) had a great mind and many opinions, but as haris has mentioned way back this does not mean we have to revere Muhammed.
What do you mean by revering? IMHO the problem with haris types is that they forget all the respect and power came to Arabs  cuz of Mhmd(s), When they became negligent of ways of Mhmd(s) they became despised! Any wonder with all the petro dollars they can't handle Israel cuz they are enslaved as neo colonies! Of course some are living high on the hog but have no say about their own future...They building the Tower of Babel when there is much ignorance and poverty in the Muslim lands...Without the love of the prophet(s) in heart no one can taste the faith in it's true dimensions...A member of clergy has Rev. infront of his name but haris is talking about no reverence about Mhmd(s)...Ouch This reminds me of the colonial times talk, o well... 
 It sounds so similar to the Catholics with the Virgin Mary here :( I just can;t get my head around this at all.
Wrong comparison...What prophet(s) went through to make the delivery and establishment of Islam seems missing from you and haris ... I think you need to start a good book on seerah and before you ge to the end every quandary will find its clue...OK C ya




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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 4:45am
Originally posted by martha



The hadiths are Muhammeds words only aren;t they? Or did the words for hadiths come by way of God?

 
Assalamu Alalikum,
 

The Qur’an contains only Allah’s words as transmitted through the angel Gabriel to the final Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him). Sunnah or hadith are the words, explanations, and the practices of the final Messenger (peace be upon him), inspired by Allah.  

Is every action of the Messenger Hadith? No, the Messenger had his personal opinions and advice he offered as an ordinary person does not come under Hadith.



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:04am
Salams Sign.

You said 'What prophet(s) went through to make the delivery and establishment of Islam seems missing from you and haris'

Oh no brother! I understand and have a great love especially for the Prophet Muhammad(s) He suffered a great deal. I cannot begin to imagine it at all.

I have read some seerahs on Muhammad. And I came to know him better as a person. ANd it's best to follow his example. So...that is as far as revering goes with Muhammad isn;t it? It's when hadiths contradict, then confuse, that is my worry as such. Which are right? (did you see my other thread on Islamic scholars?)

I agree, Islam is a way of life. You don't just pick up the Qu'ran, read some and then forget Islam when you put it down. It's a 24/7 commitment. Perhaps living in the 'new Islam society' is the toughest then. How do modern day scholars teach these things from the old hadiths?



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:07am
Originally posted by peacemaker

Originally posted by martha

The hadiths are Muhammeds words only aren;t they? Or did the words for hadiths come by way of God?

 

Assalamu Alalikum,

 


<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The Qur’an contains only Allah’s words as transmitted through the angel Gabriel to the final Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him). Sunnah or hadith are the words, explanations, and the practices of the final Messenger (peace be upon him), inspired by Allah. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Is every action of the Messenger Hadith? No, the Messenger had his personal opinions and advice he offered as an ordinary person does not come under Hadith. <o:p></o:p></SPAN>




Walaikum assalam,

Thank you peacemaker. Yes it is as I thought :)



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:12am
Originally posted by martha


Dear FOH,

Of what should I worry? Worry is negative. It is better to be positive and try to do the best each day. Allah knows


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلى على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

 Dear Martha, you should worry because it is of the signs if the true believers. They care to do what is right then worry if Allah accepts it or not. They worry if Allah forgave their sins or they will be punished for them.. They worry and pray if Allah is pleased with them or not. They worry if they are doing what pleases Him or they are doing mistakes and think they are doing what is right.

  BUT just on the death bed, a Muslims must not worry.. because at that time, he did he job and can just smile be sure that he is meeting the Merciful. This is from the hadith with the meaning expect the best from Allah when you are on the death bed about to meet  Him.

 


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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:28am
Originally posted by martha


I am not progressing any further forward in regards to this thread.

The Qur'an is perfect..they are words from God passed through Muhammed(pbuh)

The hadiths are Muhammeds words only aren;t they? Or did the words for hadiths come by way of God?

  Hadith is his words but they are all from Allah not like anyone else who speaks from himself.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - - 53.3 - - 53.4 
 

Muhammed (pbuh) had a great mind and many opinions, but as haris has mentioned way back this does not mean we have to revere Muhammed.
 
 The person who believes in the prophet evens loves him but not follow his hadith is wasting his time and saying what he is not applying. Allah sent the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, to follow his actions and take his words.. not say by tongue he is a prophet and then rejecting his words and actions and say they are lies..Ouch

  It sounds so similar to the Catholics with the Virgin Mary here :( I just can;t get my head around this at all.

 Please sister read the whole article I added about rejecting hadith means rejecting Qurran. I  know that dear sister Mratha never rejects the hadith but Haris does..

     SO just to be aware of the false believes Please give the article: To reject hadith means to  reject Quraan, one more chance to read and study very well, it answers the whole questions you added here even the one about the Catholic and he did not reply to it as you see by the way.





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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 9:13am
As Salamu Alaikum
 
Sis Martha, would like to add little {from the notes i hold }  to posts of all the members who replied you.
 
Aside from the the Holy Qur’an, Allah (S.W.T.)  has endowed the Prophet (s.a.w.s.)  with wisdom, the Ahadith (plural of Hadith), through which the readers can learn how he spent his life as the best example to humanity. And we all know that Prophet Muhammad is stated as an Ideal for all of us. Hadiths help us to perfect our lives.  
 
Hadith literally means “statement”, which is otherwise known as “Sunnah”  (a mode of life, practice, custom or tradition).  Ahadith generally refer to “the records of utterances, discourses, practices, usages, sayings and the way of life led by the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.)  ever since he assumed prophethood in the fortieth year of his life (609 A.C.) to the year of his death (632 A.C.) when he was 63 years old.”  (M. Azizullah, 1972, p.1)
 

 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 9:14am

 

Insha Allah, the following quote shall help you get clarified, sis Martha..
 
H. A.  Gibb, a scholar from the West, presents  an objective analysis of this fact (S. A. Husain, 1975, p. 5):

“The Qur’an is comparatively short and even in this small book the greater part has no direct bearing on dogmatic, ritual legal, political and social questions. The general principles by which all these matters should be regulated are to be found in the Qur’an but not all of them are set out with equal clearness and detail. It is, therefore, essential to interpret and elaborate the relevant texts. The natural, and indeed, the only possible, interpreter whose judgment can be trusted is the Prophet through whom they were revealed. According to the Qur’an itself the Prophet was possessed not only of the kitab, the written book  but also of the hikma, the wisdom, whereby ultimate principles can be applied to the details and episodes of ordinary life.  Consequently, his actions and sayings, transmitted by chain of reliable narrators form a kind of commentary and supplement to the Qur’an.”



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 9:30am
Arent these verses from GOD enough for one to believe that the Quran is not just perfect but complete and fully detailed??.
 
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
Tahir ul Qadri

  (فرما دیجئے:) کیا میں اﷲ کے سوا کسی اور کو حاکم (و فیصل) تلاش کروں حالانکہ وہ (اﷲ) ہی ہے جس نے تمہاری طرف مفصّل (یعنی واضح لائحہ عمل پر مشتمل) کتاب نازل فرمائی ہے، اور وہ لوگ جن کو ہم نے (پہلے) کتاب دی تھی (دل سے) جانتے ہیں کہ یہ (قرآن) آپ کے رب کی طرف سے (مبنی) برحق اتارا ہوا ہے پس آپ (ان اہلِ کتاب کی نسبت) شک کرنے والوں میں نہ ہوں (کہ یہ لوگ قرآن کا وحی ہونا جانتے ہیں یا نہیں)

Yousuf Ali Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ هُدًى
وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ
[7:52]
We have given them a Book of knowledge that explains the Guidance in full detail. It is a Mercy for those who accept it. (It has the Power to change Hellish societies into Paradise on earth.)
 
 
[6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book.** To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.

وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلاَ طَائِرٍ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ إِلاَّ أُمَمٌ أَمْثَالُكُم مَّا فَرَّطْنَا فِي الكِتَابِ مِن شَيْءٍ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِمْ يُحْشَرُونَ﴿

There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
 
i have given substantial evidence from the quran in support of my claims in this discussion.And i have full faith in those who are blessed with knowledge that they will understand perfectly what the above means.I wish to no longer continue this discussion as i have done my duty towards you.There is no compulsion in religion.So i leave it to all of you to understand and study on your own.May GOD guide you.
 
Salam. 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 4:58am
Same thing again Haris. I wish you to post that PM sent here at discussions boards. By the way am very allergic to Taher-ul-Qadri. So don't quote him to me, kindly. Anyways, i shall reply you only when you share the same discussion here



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by haris30432

Arent these verses from GOD enough for one to believe that the Quran is not just perfect but complete and fully detailed??.
 
[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
Tahir ul Qadri

  (فرما دیجئے:) کیا میں اﷲ کے سوا کسی اور کو حاکم (و فیصل) تلاش کروں حالانکہ وہ (اﷲ) ہی ہے جس نے تمہاری طرف مفصّل (یعنی واضح لائحہ عمل پر مشتمل) کتاب نازل فرمائی ہے، اور وہ لوگ جن کو ہم نے (پہلے) کتاب دی تھی (دل سے) جانتے ہیں کہ یہ (قرآن) آپ کے رب کی طرف سے (مبنی) برحق اتارا ہوا ہے پس آپ (ان اہلِ کتاب کی نسبت) شک کرنے والوں میں نہ ہوں (کہ یہ لوگ قرآن کا وحی ہونا جانتے ہیں یا نہیں)

Yousuf Ali Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.

[7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ هُدًى
وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ
[7:52]
We have given them a Book of knowledge that explains the Guidance in full detail. It is a Mercy for those who accept it. (It has the Power to change Hellish societies into Paradise on earth.)
 
 
[6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book.** To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.

وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلاَ طَائِرٍ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ إِلاَّ أُمَمٌ أَمْثَالُكُم مَّا فَرَّطْنَا فِي الكِتَابِ مِن شَيْءٍ ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّهِمْ يُحْشَرُونَ﴿

There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
 
i have given substantial evidence from the quran in support of my claims in this discussion.And i have full faith in those who are blessed with knowledge that they will understand perfectly what the above means.I wish to no longer continue this discussion as i have done my duty towards you.There is no compulsion in religion.So i leave it to all of you to understand and study on your own.May GOD guide you.
 
Salam. 
 
Yes, Qur'an is undoubtedly the word of Allah. And Allah sent the final Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to show the world how to follow the Qur'an. In Allah's Messenger do we find the practical example of the Qur'an.
 
For example, the Messenger explained to us about the salat (prayers) by practical action; he showed us how and when to offer the salat (prayers) by performing them. And that is just one example. The Messenger delivered the message not only in theory but also in practice. And this practice is basically the Sunnah.
 
May Allah guide us all.
 
Peace


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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 5:53pm

May Allah swt guide whoever has gone astray.

You did not answer a single question of any of our posts since last two days. If you get answers to them any day from Qura'n you are always welcome to answer them here.





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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 11:13pm
Peace,
 
Seekshidayath. im sure the people who deserved the answers have received them in detail by Allah's grace.They will think and study the Quran for answers.The ones who are not blessed will run away in aversion not satisfied with GOD's repeated assertions.No wonder GOD in the Quran repeats that only the ones who possess intelligence will take heed.
 
 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 2:03am
As Salamu Alaikum

You can't escape and run away like that Haris. You are over boards at discussions. Many read these discussions.Okay, now i want to know its answers. {P.S not thru PMs but here in this thread}. I wish to read, what you people present to prove yourselves right.

Else, its would be clear to all of us, THAT YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS TO IT.

Kindly note, am waiting for all the answers of the questions in different posts.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 17 February 2010 at 10:21am

Seeks hidayath,

y dont you show some courage and tell that the Quran has no answers to it.You are using me to cover your very obvious belief that the Quran is incomplete.Y do u fear to declare that the Quran is incomplete and that it has very less answers or unclear answers to your questions?Once you openly declare that the Quran is incomplete,i will surely answer all your questions to prove that the Quran IS COMPLETE AND FULLY DETAILED.We need a clear stance from you.The debate is now between you and me.I declare that the Quran is perfect, complete and fully detailed.No ifs and No buts.Is your stance similar? If your stance is Quran is complete BUT.......then i dont wish to continue with the debate and prove anything to you.There are other deserving believers in this forum and im here for them by God's leave.So lets see what your stance is b4 we move ahead.Inshallah.
 
 

[4:60] Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray.

[5:50] Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than GOD's for those who have attained certainty?

[5:66] If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.



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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 2:56am
As Salamu Alaikum

That was not the answer to my questions we had been posting since last week

Allâh also says, "You have a good model in the Messenger of Allâh for one who hopes for Allâh and the Last Day."

Answer this simple question :

How shud one take Prophet {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} as a model ?

Now next :

"If you quarrel over something, then refer it back to Allâh and His Messenger," (4:58)

How shud one refer back to messenger, as commanded at the ayah above ?






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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 3:08am
 
About what you posted in your recent posts, let me tell you i shall not interpret your understanding. That's totally your analysis.

Nowhere at this forum, did we members say that Quran is incomplete.The contents of the sunnah are also from Allah. Hence they have described it as also being the result of some form of inspiration.Sayings of Prophet Sallal lahu alayhi wa sallam were from Allah swt. Sunnah is further explanation / detailed explanation of Qur'an. When Ayesha RA was asked about personification of Prophet, she said he was a walking Qur'an.This indicates that Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) gave further explanation of the Qur’an with what he said or did during his lifetime. For example, the Qur’an mentions prayer and the Hadith or the Sunnah shows Muslims how and when to do it. Likewise, Hajj, and all the questions we posed you at this thread, get answered, only when we study hadith.

Take your own post ;

You said : The visit to Mena is mentioned in the following verse:

"You shall commemorate God for a number of days (in Mena). Whoever who hastens to do this in two days commits no sin, and whoever stays longer commits no sin, as long as righteousness is maintained." 2:203

How do you know that its Mena ? Hadith said that. Okay !!

You said ;

2:198:

"When you file from `Arafat, you shall commemorate GOD at the Sacred Location (of Muzdalifah)."

How did you conclude that the sacred location is Muzdalifah ? Ayat does n't clearly tells us that its Muzdalifah, right ? Hadith explains us that, which you mentioned in the brackets

All the three ayaat you posted in your post are simply out of context. We did not ask anyone to uphold Allah's law, or take any idol ---

Hope its clear to you.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 10:11pm
Peace,
 
Nowhere at this forum, did we members say that Quran is incomplete.
 
Yes neither did u say that its complete and fully detailed.You keep saying that the Quran is complete but needs Hadith to explain it.How does that make Quran complete perfect and FULLY DETAILED as GOD claims it to be?You are simply contradicting urself when u keep repeating it.This is why i asked to make a declaration,a clear stand.The choices or positions that u can take are only two.One that the Quran is perfect,complete and fully detailed or the Second being that the Quran is not perfect,complete or fully detailed without the Hadith.There is no middle position,no IFs or BUTs.Once you make your position on this matter clear to everyone here,i will certainly take the effort to answer all your questions one by one FROM the QURAN ALONE.
 
How do you know that its Mena ? Hadith said that. Okay !!
 
You probably need to go back on the pages and check my posts.I have clearly stated what the reasons are for Quran not specifying certain rituals in Islam.This is more than the third time that im requesting you to read it and then question.Plus the question that u have put up again contradicts your stand(which im very doubtful about) that the Quran is complete and fully detailed.
 
FYI Hadith was not written down by the Prophet.They were written down by ppl(scholars as u wud call them) more than a 100 years after his death claiming he said this and that.There are many contradictions in the Hadiths.Some of them which were considered authentic are now weak or false hadiths.How does that make the Hadith a reliable source of LAW?
 
We did not ask anyone to uphold Allah's law, or take any idol.
 
Well thank you very muchClap.This is exactly what i was saying.You are not asking anyone to uphold Allah's law but uphold laws never authorized by him Smile. 
 
Peace!
 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 9:01am
Don't try to be clever Haris.I want direct answers to all of my questions ?

Quran is the final and complete revelation of Allah swt, revealed over Prophet Muhammad. Hope this is loud and clear to you.

By following the sunnah, i.e the way and sayings of Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam}, am following the command of Allah swt. Hope even this is clear.

When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !!



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 9:32am

 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

اللهم صلي على نبيا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

 

  OK, Haris: I was not here but I saw that you leave the questions without answers and be back to your wrong point that we want to say Quraan is incomplete, please answer the questions logically one by one and do not ignore them.

 

   1- The difference is that we believe that this Quraan is the best book and the complete and the never changed. BUT Quraan tells us that we MUST FOLLOW the messenger of Allah, we followed it, so that we got the full understanding of our religion. While you say you stick to Quraan then pick what you like and reject what doesn't go with your theory. It is not the book that we understand ONLY, it is the whole religion that we need to understand.

 

  2- Let me tell you something in the Arabic language since called: Balagha and Eijaz: if you describe a script with this, it means that the author is VERY skillful, that he can say many meanings in a VERY few strong words. This is the word and the case for Quraan.

  Allah wanted for this Quraan to be in BRIEF and in a VERY strong language.

   In all 23years, we have just around 600pages!!

   Then this Quraan was not revealed at once. Just together. NO.. It was revealed according to the need and events in the life of the best people in the world. So that, they kept the aya with the event from the hadith. Then you must be not know any reason for the revealing of Quraan!!

 

   Then Allah told us: this prophet peace be upon him, is with us to explain to us the book. The word: يبين  means to show and make it clear.   

 

  Because Allah wanted for the Quraan to be a VERY brief but STRONG. It is NOT a book of details as it was a challenge for the Arabs at that time. They used to have the STRONGEST language and use to compete who can say the very many meanings with very few words. And now you see, so many meanings and rules can be taken from a one line very short aya. How can we get those meanings of this so STRONG and BREIF language if we are narrow minded? Where did you get their meanings from?

 If you reject the prophet's صلى الله عليه و سلم  explanation, then you accept other human ignorant people explanations!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 Allah is GREAT!! You say lies to hadith and then you take explanation of Quraan from other sources. Then do not explain.. just understand!!!!!!!!

  

 3- And, those scholars that you said wrote hadith started from the Sahabah, then millions of SCHOLARS worked so hard on Hadith. They spent their lives even to tell people about the lying narrators and the good ones. If the whole Umma during the best previous time accept this and agreed on them, then, how can we come in the poor time, far form the strong pure Arabic language they used to have!!! when we see Muslims with no knowledge!!! And with weak Imaan!!! Then reject what those first people who gave their lives to do!!! They used to travel the miles and miles just to take a VERY short one line hadith!!! Then comes the poor and say they lied!!and reject what those best ALL agreed on.

 

 3- The hadithes told about the signs of the last day and they all appeared.. then how can this happen if it is just lies.

 

 4- The hadith told us about some good benefits and dangers of things then the new science discover this just now, then how can this be happen?

 

 5- We took the way to pray, the money to pay for Zakah, and many others things, you need to read my article again to see. How do you reply to this. Again here not through PMs.

 

 BUT: You do not answer the questions. You just  go around in circles and run from the questions with general sentences.  How come!! you believe in Quaarn, the Quraan says follow the prophet, peace be upon him????

 Then you need more opened mind and knowledge in Quraan, cause this understanding will drive you away from it and not close to it. Brother study Arabic as well, VERY well, this will help you more.

   YOu think it is good to reject hadith and that it will make you stronger while in fact it will just make you ignornt about your religion. Confused 
 
  And please do us this favor pick all our questions and with numbers answer everyone, especially those of brother Peacemaker and sister Seekshidayath.

 

 

 



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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 1:49pm
'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '

I don't know which is a good hadith or not. Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ? And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else.
Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by martha

'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '
 
 

There is NO contradiction between Hadith and Quraan AT ALL. WE say this when our weak knowledge do not really understand. So this just appears to some with LACK of good knowledge to see the relation between a certain aya and hadith.

 

 Hey sister!! be sure I do not mean you with anything here. I am just telling about the whole issue in general,, so smileSmile http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif">


  I don't know which is a good hadith or not.
 
 This is what you need to learn from the BOOKS of the SAHEEH (strong) hadithes. The previous scholars/sahabah did the whole work for us. WE just need to study it with souls.
  
 Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ?
These are not any people who talked without knowledge like many of us, these days. These learned and spent lives in this then talked. These published the main resources about the knowledge of FULL understanding of Islamic studies and history. 
 
  And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else.
 
 THis is the narrow mind/way of thinking. We need (Quraan+hadith+books of Islamic knwoldge) to understnad the religion FULLY. Sister we need to understnad Islam FULLY not ONLY Quraan!!!!!
 
  Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.
 
 NOT ATT ALL.
 
  EVERYTHING FROM THE MESSENGER صلى الله عليه و سلم   HE TOOK FROM ALLAH. He did not lie to us or add accoring to his desires.  Allah joined these two in Quraan in many verses.. Allah said: OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER. And another Aya says: He who obeys the messsnger of Allah, means He obeys Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?
 
 Do not worry your head with this dieffernce among scholars. They differ accoridng to their levels of knowledge, their way of understanding, the Sahbah they took from and many other things. BUT WE as we all not scholars, we just follow them. SO get rid of this idea that gives you headache, cause we all are not their level of knowldge nor the level to judge and see who has the strongest proof.. so, just stcik to a good ONE scholar and take from him, then Allah will be pleased on you and aceept that you took His religion from his people..
 
 
 Allah Hafiz
 With my love and respect to sister MarthaStar
 


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And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 6:56pm
As Salamu Alaikum sis Martha Smile
 
Originally posted by martha

'When under different context, a hadith contradicts with Qur'an, we are taught to take up Quran. Okay !! '

I don't know which is a good hadith or not. Am I just supposed to rely and trust on people ? .
 
Its easy to recongnise if a hadith is authentic or not. Sister, insha Allah, shall send you how to see the authenticity of hadith.
 
And if the Quran is complete then I still don't see we need anything else
 
Sister, not all the Qur'an {word-word} shud be understood by hadith. To get proper and good understanding of few ayaat from Qur'an, hadith is needed. Kindly note sister that by following hadith we are infact obeying the command of Allah from Qur'an

Sure, Muhammed(pbuh) left us his example..we should try to follow that, but this is completely different to following the commandments of Allah.

All scholars are different. There should be no sects in Islam. Isn't that so?
Not all scholars are different sis. Anyways, yes there shud be no sect in Islam. We are not accountable to Allah swt based on the sect we belong to. Infact Allah swt commanded us in Qur'an that we shud not get divided into sects. Prophet Muhammad {pbuh} in his farewell speech said that he is leaving two things to us and we are to hold them. Else we get divided. The two things mentioned were - Qur'an and Sunnah.
 



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 10:52pm
Seeks,

It is not easy to recognise a good hadith.

If Allah commanded us not to divide into sects then we are indeed accountable if we do.


You must remember that for 6 years I had no help from my skanky husband. He would not let me attend any masjid for anything. Prayer, he said, was to be done in the home. I was not allowed to speak with any sister without being interigated. He made sure I was followed, he abused me regularly and to add insult to injury he said he did not care if I was muslim or not. ANd this is just for starters. SO, nOt exactly a shining example of a good muslim was he? ANd I did not know enough about Islam to pick a good husband on my own. Maybe I was naive, at fault, or just plain st**id on that account, but he will and has been rebuked by Allah for his lack of guidance with me. He has lost everything.
Surah 18:32-36 and 18:42-43 come to mind. He fits that so well.

So, I didn't exactly start well with Islam. Please remember, however, that I was muslim only by a few months when I met him. BLind faith and a limited understanding of the Quran was how it all started. (I have serious doubts if I am actually a muslim or not as nothing was explained to me when I took shahada. I did not fit in with the 7 requirements to be muslim) So, until that point of meeting him I was doing my best..attending classes at the masjid and enquiring. Unfortunately for me that was not enough to see me through the next 6years.

Allah knows all things..He will reward me for being a good wife under the most extreme circumstances. NOw I do not live near any muslim whatsoever. The nearest masjid is 20+ miles and I am unable to get there.

The forum has been my only lifeline. I have had varying responses from various members. Many have been extremely kind to me, some have suggested I have not been a good muslim. Hardly surprising then is it?

Allah is the most important in my life. He always has been, He always will be. If He had not been I would have been dead long ago.

So, I do not need conflicting ideas on hadiths or sunnahs that come from scholars often of dubious nature. It is how I see it.

BUt thanks seeks anyway :)




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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 11:55pm
Peace,
 
Full of hope you say that the hadith never contradicts the Quran.You should probably go through the hadiths once again and see what you are talking about here.There are many contradictions.And ive tried posting them before but they were deleted claiming that they were from non islamic sources.Plus it seems like Seekshidayath has a different stand on the hadith .She posted the following on a christian brother's question
 
Are there any current Islamic beliefs that supersede the Qur'an? (e.g., the Hadith)
 
No, no kind of Islamic belief does supercede the Qur'an. When a hadith used in different contexts does contradict with Qur'an, we take up the Qur'an. As said, by following hadith we are infact following Qur'an.
 
 
So from the above i see that she does acknowldge the fact that there can be contradictions in the hadith with the Quran.And your position is different.This is why i said i need  a clear stand from you with regards to the Quran.We are not talking hadith here.We are talking about the Quran coz thats what we both believe in.Since you still are not taking up the challenge and declaring your stand on the Quran's completeness,there is no point in me trying to answer the questions.There is no debate here as far as im concerned.You dont have a solid postion on the Quran.Why dont you just declare that the Quran is incomplete and has no details?.Since you are reluctant to do that,we should put this matter to rest here.To you is your faith and to me is mine.
 
Peace!
 


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 10:15am
Hey Martha,

What are the "7 requirements to be muslim?" Are you talking on "basic beliefs?

Since there are 1.5 billion Muslims I found it easiest to use people I trust to find out information. And I don't use nonMuslim sources for sure.  This is how to avoid dubious sources.

And for me, I know that if something is part of Islam that is "hard" for me to "accept" i take it as me vs. the religion. I am a product of my life and so I will interpret things through that prism.  For instance, putting pictures of people up or statues etc is discouraged.  I don't think I am about to worship them, but OTHERS do. So hence the discouragement. Same with "mixing" of men and women, I won't sleep with them, but others DO. 

And there are actually very few things where things are not in agreement by the majority of Muslims. Now they may not act upon it, say drinking, but the agreement is fairly universal. In fact there are more agreements then non agreements. Typically within the "sects" has to do with "post" Sahaba time.. who is ruling etc. For instance some small groups go off tangent and follow another "prophet" after Prophet Mohammed (SAWS).

And if you read about disagreements sometimes they are on such obscure stuff, like the one in million situation that the arguments are often to argue for argue sakes.

There are very reputable sites that offer very good information and have reputable scholars. 

And if there is a particular area of Islam you want to improve for yourself there are ways to do that. Say you want to improve prayer or knowledge on history. There are classes you can take online.

May Allah reward you for your efforts.

Hayfa

 




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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by haris30432

With all due respect,i do not wish to learn about any of the messengers of God than what is beyond the Quran.


Would like to add my two cents...

This is akin to someone in possession of a standards handbook getting the idea of practicing in that field without proper education and training in the field as prescribed by the publishers. What we call a person who doesn't care about the Messenger(saw)?... who transformed the savages into the captains of the world through painstaking span of 23 years but thinks he can be Elijah Mhmd so be it at his own peril!

There has to a be an underlying reason for that attitude of ignoring 'the MAN'... It is the mindset of people in bondage of ME! There are 22 Arab states today shaking in their boots living in the shadow of a Satanic state ...Isn't it a shameful spectacle of overfed Arabs living of the fat of the land to benefit of the Zionism...In other words ignorance is bliss for you! that is your choice and nothing can we do for you but pray!

Allah says "And We have sent you as an Apostle to instruct mankind"(4:79)

The Quran is perfect, complete and fully detailed.All the details that is required for our salvation is there in the Quran.

Of course! we don't need that be told here!

Action speaks louder than words!

Let's see there are over two dozen times  Allah commands go and fight relative to the condition the Muslim state is in at present time... I know for sure you won't be able to do so living in a Brit protectorate... So don't say what you won't do or find Taweels in not doing it!

Anything beyond that, is not necessary for our salvation.It would be hypocritical of me to say that i believe the Quran is sufficient and go to other sources for any kind of guidance.
Lot's of luck! The Burden of proof is on your shoulders! Read as follows and then look in the mirror!
33:21 (Y. Ali) Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

I know Prophet Muhamed was a great prophet like all others before him and that GOD gave him a wonderful character.
How do you know? There isn't much related in the Quran! You won't learn till you study his biography!
Now all that knowledge about him in the Quran is sufficient for me.
If it wasnt, Quran would have given more details.This is what i believe.
Lot of the people also say ignorance is bliss!

I fear idolizing anyone beside GOD and i mean anyone becoz THE ONLY and i mean THE ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN  if maintained till death is idol worship or assigning partners to GOD.
How so?
34:28 (Y. Ali) We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.
I would like to bring this to your attention that the only one worthy of your full devotion and love is GOD and nobody else.There is no one after ,there is no one before.
Duh...Who are you preaching to?
"I BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD AND HE HAS NO PARTNERS"
Now you want to us to accept your new Kalima's too! Seems you have some nefarious agenda! BTW do you belong to any of the following?
Rashad Khalifa's mission...
Pakiwaki Parveziat?

Nation of Islam?

Finally2:143 (Y. Ali) Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves;
Masalaama





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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 8:29am
Hi Hayfa,

I was talking about the 7 conditions to be met when taking shahada?

I don't know how to explain beyond this really. Translations are all different...ie some say that you declare Muhammed is a messenger of GOd..others say you accept Muhammed as the last prophet of GOd.

Certainly I had no instructions on anything like this at the time. Also I had not studied for any length of time beforehand. SOme say you should study before, others say it is not necessary.

Obviously I have studied since then, but it has not helped as much as I had hoped.

I am not a person to care much for worldy things..guess you know me by now for that..so it wouldn't be me rejecting certain points cause it didn't fit in with my thinking. Actually the opposite I guess...I am very conscious that I need to DO the right things..but reliable sources might not be reliable at all. I wouldn't like to follow blindly.

The Quran is not corrupted, there are no flaws right? So how can we elaborate on it with hadiths from fallible scholars? And also we know that whilst the Quran is protected from corruption Islam isn't.

I have read seerah's about the Prophet(pbuh). It's the scholars I have problems with. Hadiths change..and scholars are not always scholarly:(



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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Hayfa

Hey Martha,

What are the "7 requirements to be muslim?" Are you talking on "basic beliefs?

Since there are 1.5 billion Muslims I found it easiest to use people I trust to find out information. And I don't use nonMuslim sources for sure.  This is how to avoid dubious sources.

And for me, I know that if something is part of Islam that is "hard" for me to "accept" i take it as me vs. the religion. I am a product of my life and so I will interpret things through that prism.  For instance, putting pictures of people up or statues etc is discouraged.  I don't think I am about to worship them, but OTHERS do. So hence the discouragement. Same with "mixing" of men and women, I won't sleep with them, but others DO. 

And there are actually very few things where things are not in agreement by the majority of Muslims. Now they may not act upon it, say drinking, but the agreement is fairly universal. In fact there are more agreements then non agreements. Typically within the "sects" has to do with "post" Sahaba time.. who is ruling etc. For instance some small groups go off tangent and follow another "prophet" after Prophet Mohammed (SAWS).

And if you read about disagreements sometimes they are on such obscure stuff, like the one in million situation that the arguments are often to argue for argue sakes.

There are very reputable sites that offer very good information and have reputable scholars. 

And if there is a particular area of Islam you want to improve for yourself there are ways to do that. Say you want to improve prayer or knowledge on history. There are classes you can take online.

May Allah reward you for your efforts.

Hayfa

 



Excellent points, Jazakallah


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 24 March 2010 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by Hayfa



And for me, I know that if something is part of Islam that is "hard" for me to "accept" i take it as me vs. the religion. I am a product of my life and so I will interpret things through that prism.  For instance, putting pictures of people up or statues etc is discouraged.  I don't think I am about to worship them, but OTHERS do. So hence the discouragement. Same with "mixing" of men and women, I won't sleep with them, but others DO. 

And there are actually very few things where things are not in agreement by the majority of Muslims. Now they may not act upon it, say drinking, but the agreement is fairly universal. In fact there are more agreements then non agreements.

And if you read about disagreements sometimes they are on such obscure stuff, like the one in million situation that the arguments are often to argue for argue sakes.


Excellent points, Jazakallah


Just like Sign, wanted to say Thumbs%20Up



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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."


Posted By: pbuh
Date Posted: 09 August 2010 at 3:49am
Originally posted by Full of Hopes
 
Salam,

  

Quote:-

 

2- WHY was every prophet sent just to his people while prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sent to the whole mankind?

 

 

3- Why is his book the Quraan the last book kept from changing?

 

 

Reply:- about point-2 :- In my opinion Muhammad was the last prophet and no prophet will come after him, so Almighty God told this. That does not mean that he was the biggest or like this amongst the other prophets.

 

 

About point no.3 -  The same reply. As Qur’an is the last revealed book from Almighty God so……. and God himself took the responsibility to protect it as he protected the body of king Firoun. That does not mean that we should included prophets name in our daily salat prayer.

 

 

Regarding point no.4.- please read this very carefully;-

 

 

MUHAMMAD INCLUDED IN PROPHETS MENTIONED IN 3:81

 

God is His infinite wisdom knew that people will exalt Muhammad beyond the truth and proclaim him as last messenger as people have been doing since the time of Joseph. God's infinite wisdom saw to it that Muhammad is specifically shown to have been one of those prophets who pledged to support the messenger after all the prophets mentioned in 3:81.

 

[33:7] Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.

 

 

WARNING TO THE REJECTORS OF 3:81

 

Verses 3:81-90

 

 

Regarding Point no.5 – Does it mean that we should included Muhammads name in our salat …… or does it mean that Muhammad was the biggest prophets??? Show proof from the Qur’an.

 

 

About point no.6 – who will tell you that prophet Muhammad will take the biggest shafa’? Please provide Quranic proof.

 

 

 

 




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