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Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1509
Printed Date: 24 October 2014 at 12:06pm


Topic: Greetings Forum
Posted By: americancrusade
Subject: Greetings Forum
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:01pm
I am new to this forum.  i am a Catholic American.  My intention is to learn and share my viewpoint with Moslems.  I have to say, I am very impressed with what i have read so far.  I have to admit, i was expecting much more hate-filled posts than i have seen.  For that, I truly do apologize. 



Replies:
Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:09pm

Welcome.

Check out the interfaith forum. I posted a question there that hasn't been touched upon yet. Right http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1494&PN=1 - here .



Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:48am

Americancrusade,

 

It is kind of you to admit that what you expected to see is not what is actually happening on IC forum.  I am a new Muslim and I came here to learn more about Islam from those who live pious Muslim lives.  I have seen some hostility on this forum; however, more often than not, it is from some non-Muslim who simply wants to pick a fight because of some misconception they have as to the current state of affairs in the world. 

 

I, also, live in the United States and I am ½ Scotish and ½ Native American so I guess you can say I’m an American as well.  I personally believe one of the biggest problems Muslims face today is the phrase "Islamic terrorism."  To refer to the violence that some individuals have brought about in the world today as "Islamic terrorism" is simply ludicrous. To refer to all Muslim as Arabs is a misconception as is to refer to all Arabs a Muslim.  Not all Arabs are Muslims and only approximately 25% of the Muslims in this world are Arab.  Whoever coined the phrase “Islamic terrorism” did this world a grave injustice and those who continue to do so are just as guilty.  I struggle every day with the fact that I am a member of a country that prides itself on being a world leader yet stoops to such levels of ignorance.  Using this “catch phrase” does nothing but lead to more distrust, hate and violence. 

 

Islam mean Peace and there is nothing in the Nobel Qur'an that could possible lead anyone to believe otherwise.  If some individuals who profess to be Muslim have taken it upon themselves to do violent acts bringing harm to innocent individuals and claim that they are doing so in the name of Allah, they simply don't know what they are talking about.  Any sensible Christian should be able to see the truth in this.  How many "Christians" in America have done acts of violence?  Has the media ever jumped to the conclusion that there is "Christian terrorism" taking place in the US?  I think not.  There are many "Christian Extremist" groups in the US.  Look up the web site for the KKK and see if there are not references to the Bible regarding their terrorist behavior toward minority groups.  There are many other militant redneck groups in the US who claim to be “Christians.”  Why is it that Christianity does not get pegged as "Christian terrorism" because of the likes of these types of individuals?  I will tell you why, because it would simply be pure ignorance to do so.  This is no less true with regards to Islam.  Islam does not permit the killing of innocent people…PERIOD!  Allah’s laws regarding acts of war set forth in the Qur’an do not entail killing innocents…women, children or men. 

 

It would be nice if non-Muslims would read the Qur’an…a real translation and not one of the bad ones that are found in bookstores across the US.  Since Muslims believe that the Old and New Testaments were also reveals by Allah’s messangers (i.e., Moses and Jesus (pbut)), many Muslims have studies the other holy books.  In fact, many Muslims probably have more knowledge of the other holy books than do many so called Christians.  I do know that one of the things which attracted me to Islam was the high level of importance that Islam places on knowledge. 

 

Americancrusade, I know that you came here thinking that you just might have the chance to “enlighten” some Muslims, but maybe if you stick around, you will be surprised to see who is actually the one that is enlightened.  Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy the time you spend here. 

 

PAZ, Khadija



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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 10:42am

Bismillah,

I like your point on the non-phrase "Christian terrorism".  That reminds me of the crusades.  I could have used that today when my dad said everybody thinks muslims are terrorist. (I told him at least he knows better!) 

To say this phrase that you mentioned when people bring up the other would be useful in helping them realize how incorrect both of the phrases are.



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:35pm

Islam has a connection to the word peace, but it's actual meaning comes closer to, submtting oneself to (the one god) while wishing the peace with Him in doing so. How does one submit to Him? how does one achieve peace with Him? through obeying His commands, leaving what He dislikes, and doing what He likes, and these can be found in His books, The Torah, The Evangel and the Koran. He is The Truth, so He loves the truthful. He is The Just so He loves the just.

wether you are jew, christian or "muslim", if your goal is not to please Him through your deeds and striving, your works will bare no fruit in the hereafter, your works will be in vain. Because the truth is

Allah, is One, The Merciful, The Creator.

The Massiah is Jesus son of Mary messenger of Allah.

koran chapter 5 (the table) verse 68" say:"O people of the book(bible comes from the latin word bibleo which means book).O people of the book ye are upon nothing, unless ye make firm(implement) The Torah(The Law, old testament), the Evangel(gospel), and that which is sent down to you from thy Lord". And that which is sent down to thee from thy Lord increaseth in most of them their arrogance and ungratefullness, so sorrow thouself not over the (disbelieving) ungrateful people.

people of the book, means the jews and christians.

Jews and Christians are urged to implement their own books, These books are His also.

i leave you with this...

Chapter "the table 5 verse 48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

When truth comes, man has no other option but to accept the truth, because we all will stand before Him who is The Truth, and turning away from the truth when it comes to you means you loved something more then the truth, and that which you loved over the truth can not be something else then a lie....because what else is there after the truth except a lie? Know that truth leads to Him, and He loves the truthfull, so be truthfull in your search and striving may He love and accept you.



Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 15 July 2005 at 1:44pm

Community,

After reading your above post (and others as well), I would like to know of which faith do you belong?  Are you Jewish, Christian, Muslim or some other?  Please make this clear to me so that maybe it will help me (and others) understand your posts better.  After reading your posts, more often than not, I am  about the status of your faith.  Maybe this is your intention; however, I, for one, do not feel comfortable conversing about such fundamental issues of faith with a chameleon.  I feel this is dangerous and can be mislead to others in ways that may bring harm to them.  One does not need to be a member of any particular faith to be a member of IC forum; however, I feel it is vitally important to know what position a person holds with respect to religion.  Allah warns us about those who say one thing here and then another there.  Muslims should not associate with such individuals.  So, Community, which is it?

PAZ, Khadija



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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)


Posted By: ummsaleh
Date Posted: 16 July 2005 at 12:55am

American Crusade,

I was once in your shoes, after reading the Quran and Sunnah I found that Islam was the most peaceful religion in the world, Islam has made me a good person, I was raised in the South, really Southern American; Bad teenager; lucky to still be alive. After Accepting Islam; everyone in my family admitted that Islam was the answer for me; my family are Mormon. Inshaállah --Allah will bless them with Islam. Islam is peace, and Humdiállah I have found peace in Islam and peace with in myself...



Posted By: americancrusade
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:01am

To all,

I must address the use of my chosen screen name. American Crusade.  It would have been longer if the character count allowed.."American Crusader"  Yes, it is my intent to address, discuss, challenge anyone who supports a mindless Jihad of violence and murder.  You will often hear me refer to the term Islamo-Jihadist.  I chose that term because I realize not all Muslims are Jihadists commiting acts of violence or supporting them.  I recognize Islam as  a peaceful religion.  I hope that my time here will re-inforce that concept.  I also hope to give a Christian viewpoint that will help to change one's mind if they are supporting such wickedness.  That is the purpose of my American Crusade, to reveal there is no love in Jihad or vengence.

It is not my intent to convert to Islam.  I am a new Catholic and have found my conversion experience very enlightening.  In my parrish, we preach about forgiveness and tolerance.  It is required!!!  Now, that does not mean every Catholic wants to forgive the evil done to Christians by Islamo-Jihadists, and I have to admit I also struggle with that notion.  I need to read and hear from Muslims who are peace, who are love and who also believe we can all live together, sharing the same God or Allah.  By doing so, I can strengthen my resolve for tolerance and love, as mandated by my Catholic beliefs.  American Christians need to hear this from Muslims everywhere!

As Christians, we realize there are many different faiths and accept that.  What we don't tolerate and will always expose are hate-mongering people who try to identify themselves as Christians.  I look forward to the day when Islam will police their own and eradicate the hate-filled jihadists within their faith.



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As Christians, we pray for the black, evil, hate filled souls of the Islamo-Jihadists every day. If this offends you, then you know who I'm praying for.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 10:34am

Americancrusad(er)

First let me say God's peace and blessings be upon you and your family.

Bismi'llah ir-Rahmaan -ir-Raheem

First and formost we the majority are Muslims and you are most wlecome here as this website is for all those who wish to learn something about Islam. But let me warn you and though I'm not a moderator I assume that most here do not want evangelicals looking for a fight here. We may have disagreements here but I vouch for my brethren here in saying that most of us here want to talk about worship and love for God. I hope you can respect that. Second let me say that you use the term "Islamo-Jihadist" very loosely.

Let me remind you that "Islamo-Jihadist" is not a concept that makes sense Islamically. Jihad does not mean to kill Jews Christians or anyone who are innocent, in the name of God (Allah). Jihad means many things but it is not Islamo-Jihadist. Americancrusade many of us Muslims are on a Jihad everyday unlike the concept of Jihad you know but in the more spiritual sense. Jihad means to struggle, in the way of Islam. A mother giving birth is Jihad and if she dies in child birth she is considered a maytr (forgive my misspellings as I have been pullin all nighters). A scholar who dies writing a book for the pleasure of Allah is a maytr who has commensed in Jihad.

Also let me address to you Americancrusad(er) that "Islam does not police its people" the people police th people however we abide by Islam's ethical guidelines. I wish you would not use that loosely here either but its a free country in America and you are limitedly free to do as you wish . Also if you wish to have a healthy debate regarding spirituality I'm more than willing to do that personally with you. As sometimes the forums are sometimes not the best outlets to truly understand  a certain subject.

More importantly what you may already know now let me just again remind you that Islam is "submission to the will of God." We are the followers of Muhammad who is our prophet the last of the line of prophets of God. We worship Allah (God) the One God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Jesus, Noah, Moses, David, Shuaib, Soloman and many others named and unnamed. Our God is neither moon, nor sun nor resembles anything in the universe.

Our Lord is the one who created everything in, around and in between the universe. As I understand there are many Catholics whom I have befriended who also share our beliefs and that is why we Muslims call them brothers in the Abrahamic faith. Christians and Jews are also our brothers and sisters in the Abrahamic faith despite our differences we all worship Rabbil Alamin, translation: The Lord of the worlds. I hope that your journey is not motivated by finding Al-Qaeda here, or Osama or any other terrorist group. We are mostly adults, mothers, fathers, students, teachers, doctors etc. even FBI agents LOL

I hope your stay is adventurous and full of knowledge and curiousity.



Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 12:38pm

Americancrusader,

If you truly care to enlighten us as you claim you have come here to do, it would be far more effective if you replaced the word "Islamo-Jihadists" with the term “terrorists."  Despite your claim that only those who are sympathetic with terrorism would be offended by that phrase, I personally know of no Muslim who would not be offended by it simply on the grounds that it is a derogatory term which insults the very heart of Islam.   Maybe you are of the misconception that only Muslims are terrorist and that is why you insist on using that phrase to put emphasis on that point.  I would hope that your thinking is not that shallow however.  Even a good Catholic soul as yourself knows that terrorism is not the product of Islam but is the product of HUMAN ERROR. 

 

When a person of any faith be it Judaism, Christianity, or Islam takes it upon him/herself to perform an act of terrorism, in doing so, they step outside of their faith, not more deeply into it.  You tend to understand this fact when it comes to Christianity as you say “What we don't tolerate and will always expose are hate-mongering people who try to identify themselves as Christians.”  However, when it comes to the actions of those who claim to be Muslim and do such acts, you have this to say, “I look forward to the day when Islam will police their own and eradicate the hate-filled jihadists within their faith.”  Do you see how you twist the wording so that it appears that Christians are not responsible for the behavior of those who call themselves Christians; however, you do not grant that same charitable thought when it comes to Muslims in Islam?  The truth of the matter is that it is one way or the other Americancrusader, sorry but you can’t have it both ways and still say you are being “logical” or “ethical.”  So, which way will it be?

 

You know what I look forward to Americancrusader?  I look forward to the day when the rest of the world steps back and allows Muslims to enjoy the freedom that the Jews and Christians of this world enjoy.  That is what I look forward too.  I pray to Allah it will happen during my lifetime.  Ameen

 

Brother Israfil, Jazak Allah for you post.

 

PAZ, Khadija

 



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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 1:49pm

Shukran Sister Khadija what I say is something brief that many of us believers believe



Posted By: americancrusade
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 2:35pm

Brothers Israfil and Khadija,

Israfil,

Thank you for your gracious hospitality and forwarning.  I too appreciate and value your stated concept of Jihad and view it to be of a noble nature and wholly support it.  It is not my intent to evangelize or confront anyone for the sake of confrontation and intend to respect all who contribute.  Thank you for your praise and patience with my limited knowledge of the Q'ran.

Khadija,

My same thanks to you for your graciousness and kind words.  To respond to your assertion that I do not hold Islam to the same standard when it comes to 'hate-mongering".  I clearly stated as Christians, we do not tolerate this and call it for what it is.  In effect, we identify them and denounce them as a Christian community.

You point out that I do not afford Islam the same courtesy.  I may be wrong and very much desire to be wrong.  I would hope to NOT see Muslim Clerics on television hailing acts of terrorism and suicide bombings as acts of Martyrdom.  As you state, these are not acts of Islam, yet I see no one from the Islamic hierarchy remove a Clerics authority after making such statements!  I believe I have heard of it happening in Lodi, California and that was done by those from within the community.  This Cleric is free to go and preach hate at any other Mosque.  

Conversely, imagine a Catholic Cardinal (Modern day, mind you) or Bishop standing up and calling for violence against Muslims?  Our Catholic authority, (Pope, Vatican, Rome etc..) as well as the Catholic community would immediately remove someone like this from power and denounce them unfit to serve our Father, or ANY OTHER Catholic community.  I do not wish to offend, only to understand..As such, I am fearful of offending all if I continue on with this subject and will yield to all the last word on it.  

With much Peace and respect to all.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 3:07pm

Americano Crusader, my friend, I like your smell. I am glad you could not find the hate-filled atmosphere here that is attributed to and spun about these poor Mozlems by certain admins, possibly, to mask their own crimes of oppression of Muslims, which has been rampant through the tenure of the British empire and, then they passed the mantle on to their English Speaking cousins on the other side of the Pond.

May I request you please to explain what you mean by; Now, that does not mean every Catholic wants to forgive the evil done to Christians by Islamo-Jihadists,

What evil was done to the Christians by the "Islamo-Jihadists"?

I have seen Muslims, Christians and Jews living in perfect harmony for far far far longer than the Brit intelligence would want us to believe. They have worked together, like the brothers they are, in el-Andalus and in Ottoman Turkey.

Saint John was a drinking companion of Haroon ur Rasheed and they obviously discussed a fairly wide range of topics besides toasting a glass of red or the other to each other. In those days Islam was taken as a string of Christianity. My friend, the Muslims I have met do not seem to consider Christianity or the Christians as any threat.

Only our master want us to consider each other as a threat. Ever heard of the great Divide and Rule formula?



Posted By: rocitreal
Date Posted: 20 July 2005 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by Khadija1021

I personally believe one of the biggest problems Muslims face today is the phrase "Islamic terrorism."  To refer to the violence that some individuals have brought about in the world today as "Islamic terrorism" is simply ludicrous. 

 

I see your point, but to me one of the biggest problems are all these people going around calling america imperialist.  Saying they accually want to colonize the world with imperialistic desires this is simply ludicrous to me.  This is fuel for the hatred and misconseption just as you feel the term Islamic Terrorism does.

 

Nice to have you on board american crusade.  Your name is a bit of a question to me, what is it you mean by this name ?

 

I to am very pleased with this board and feel there are very many nice people here.  I must say, i was looking for the same kind of hate filled boards you were when finding it.  I wanted to speak out against the ignorance, to my liking most people on this board are not closed minded and a joy to discuss issues with.



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Peace, its more than a word its a dream.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 6:22am
I think one of the biggest problems the world faces today is the ignorance of mankind. Until that is resolved we will always continue to fight, have wars, kill each other, rape etc etc.


Posted By: rocitreal
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 10:49am

Originally posted by Israfil

I think one of the biggest problems the world faces today is the ignorance of mankind. Until that is resolved we will always continue to fight, have wars, kill each other, rape etc etc.

Thats so true,   Humans are not all good or bad in any part of the world.  Ignorance is bliss.



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Peace, its more than a word its a dream.


Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 7:20pm

Bismillah,

Thank you Israfil and Khadija for your poignant responses to AC. 

Jihad is beautiful and blessed by Allah, SWT.  We must strive use this term correctly even though the entire world may not. 

Terrorists, anarchists, bloodthirsty killers are all better names for mass murderers.  Why give them an inspired and unmatchable name like Jihadist just because they are foolish enough to think that it is so?  They are wrong, and so is anyone who agrees with and supports their incorrect use of this word of Allah, the Blessed, The Loving, The Merciful, The Wise. 

The term Crusader brings up images (in my mind) of dirty, greedy, violent masses looking for blood and money from anyone they found on the path to Jerusalem during the Crusades.  But that's just what I learned in school.  I'm sure you have a different image of it. 

I say this as an example to you.  Jihad is a blessed word that brings up ideas of obedience and striving to please our Dear Lord for millions of Muslims all around the world. (Please note my wonderful nickname!)



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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.


Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 21 July 2005 at 7:53pm

Originally posted by americancrusade

Khadija,

My same thanks to you for your graciousness and kind words.  To respond to your assertion that I do not hold Islam to the same standard when it comes to 'hate-mongering".  I clearly stated as Christians, we do not tolerate this and call it for what it is.  In effect, we identify them and denounce them as a Christian community.

You point out that I do not afford Islam the same courtesy.  I may be wrong and very much desire to be wrong.  I would hope to NOT see Muslim Clerics on television hailing acts of terrorism and suicide bombings as acts of Martyrdom.  As you state, these are not acts of Islam, yet I see no one from the Islamic hierarchy remove a Clerics authority after making such statements!  I believe I have heard of it happening in Lodi, California and that was done by those from within the community.  This Cleric is free to go and preach hate at any other Mosque.  

Conversely, imagine a Catholic Cardinal (Modern day, mind you) or Bishop standing up and calling for violence against Muslims?  Our Catholic authority, (Pope, Vatican, Rome etc..) as well as the Catholic community would immediately remove someone like this from power and denounce them unfit to serve our Father, or ANY OTHER Catholic community.  I do not wish to offend, only to understand..As such, I am fearful of offending all if I continue on with this subject and will yield to all the last word on it.  

With much Peace and respect to all.

Americancrusader, I was born and raised in a Southern Baptist environment and I "converted" to Catholicism when I married a Catholic man.  Believe me, there is a big difference between Christian sects.  I can guarantee you that if you went to some of the Evangelical Christian churches, especially in the south; you would be shocked by what you would see and hear.  I know for a fact that the town my mother lives in which is located in Northern Florida has an active KKK whose members are active members in the local Evangelical Christian churches in that area.  I know exactly how these people talk and how they think.  I know towns where a minority person would not dare to venture after dark for great fear of what may very well happen to them and these towns are full of what is called “Good Christian Souls.”  I have yet to see anyone go remove these “preachers” from their pulpits.  There have also been news articles about Muslims in the southern states who have been denied the right to build mosques.  So, please don’t be so naive to think that “modern day Christians” would not do such a thing and if they did, they would be removed from their positions.  Just because Catholics might not put up with it doesn’t mean other Christian sects would not.

PAZ, Khadija



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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 5:57pm
good post Sister.


Posted By: crissy
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 6:03pm
hi Im new also,Im so confused and I have alot of ?


Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 4:20pm

Assalamu Alaikum

Crissy, if you have question, it is best that you either find a post with a topic you have questions about or start a new thread.  Be sure to look at all of the different topic areas on the main board.  I have not been here long either, but it doesn't take long to find your way around if you spend some time here on a regular basis.  Inshallah you will enjoy your time here and that you will learn something.

PAZ, Khadija



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Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)



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