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# of prayers ? negotiated?

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Discription: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14808
Printed Date: 01 November 2014 at 6:28am


Topic: # of prayers ? negotiated?
Posted By: jr87
Subject: # of prayers ? negotiated?
Date Posted: 06 June 2009 at 8:36am
I was reading ...I forget from where, the # of prayers that one has to perform daily.

I'm not sure if this was quran or a hadith, or what- the part where the prophet goes and asks how many times the muslims are supposed to pray per day-

I dont know the whole thing off by heart, may be some glitches..
and at first it was said to pray 50 times?
and then he went back and forth, and eventually- settled with 5 times.

I don't understand how it is possible that the prophet, who is supposed 2 be an ordinary man.. can just negotiate something like that with God.

or does any1 know the proper story on this- who was he commanded to for the amount of prayers..
I dont understand how someone so great like God would actually go and negotiate.. with a prophet on the amount of prayers. doesnt make sense 2 me.
can someone elaborate.


also- when Islam was still young - I read the Muslims did not pray towards the kabaa but the direction of where the jews prayed-but eventually this changed ..but I dont understand why there was some conformity when Islam is supposed to be the true religion, and then how all of a sudden it changed.


can sum1 help me out with this ! :) thanks.
again, im sorry if my knowledge is limited, and I make some error. or if i offend any1!



Replies:
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 9:56am
Salams,Allah doesnt put any harship on someone that is too much to bare.I hope this helps.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 11:26pm

Good questions again, jr87.

According to hadith, when Prophet Muhammad {Peace be upon him} was ascended to heavens. Read this hadith , {Saying of Prophet}

Narrated Malik bin Sasaa: The Prophet said, "While I was at the House in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness, (an angel recognized me) as the man lying between two men. A golden tray full of wisdom and belief was brought to me and my body was cut open from the throat to the lower part of the abdomen and then my abdomen was washed with Zam-zam water and (my heart was) filled with wisdom and belief. Al-Buraq, a white animal, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me and I set out with Gabriel. When I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the heaven gate-keeper..

'Open the gate.' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' He said, 'Gabriel.' The gate-keeper,' Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' The gate-keeper said, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' Then I met Adam and greeted him and he said, 'You are welcomed O son and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the second heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was said, 'Who is with you?' He said, 'Muhammad' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' He said, 'Yes.' It was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!" Then I met Jesus and Yahya (John) who said, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the third heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is with you? Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' 'Yes,' said Gabriel. 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' (The Prophet added:). There I met Joseph and greeted him, and he replied, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet!' Then we ascended to the 4th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met Idris and greeted him. He said, 'You are welcomed O brother and Prophet.' Then we ascended to the 5th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in previous heavens. there I met and greeted Aaron who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and a Prophet". Then we ascended to the 6th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Moses who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and. a Prophet.' When I proceeded on, he started weeping and on being asked why he was weeping, he said, 'O Lord! Followers of this youth who was sent after me will enter Paradise in greater number than my followers.' Then we ascended to the seventh heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Abraham who said, 'You are welcomed o son and a Prophet.' Then I was shown Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur (i.e. Allah's House). I asked Gabriel about it and he said, This is Al Bait-ul-Ma'mur where 70,000 angels perform prayers daily and when they leave they never return to it (but always a fresh batch comes into it daily).' Then I was shown Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. a tree in the seventh heaven) and I saw its Nabk fruits which resembled the clay jugs of Hajr (i.e. a town in Arabia), and its leaves were like the ears of elephants, and four rivers originated at its root, two of them were apparent and two were hidden. I asked Gabriel about those rivers and he said, 'The two hidden rivers are in Paradise, and the apparent ones are the Nile and the Euphrates.' Then fifty prayers were enjoined on me. I descended till I met Moses who asked me, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Fifty prayers have been enjoined on me.' He said, 'I know the people better than you, because I had the hardest experience to bring Bani Israel to obedience. Your followers cannot put up with such obligation. So, return to your Lord and request Him (to reduce the number of prayers.' I returned and requested Allah (for reduction) and He made it forty. I returned and (met Moses) and had a similar discussion, and then returned again to Allah for reduction and He made it thirty, then twenty, then ten, and then I came to Moses who repeated the same advice. Ultimately Allah reduced it to five. When I came to Moses again, he said, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Allah has made it five only.' He repeated the same advice but I said that I surrendered (to Allah's Final Order)'" Allah's Apostle was addressed by Allah, "I have decreed My Obligation and have reduced the burden on My slaves, and I shall reward a single good deed as if it were ten good deeds."


In an other version of Hadith {Imam Ahmed}, its like this. {Am sharing only the part of prayers}

Then the prayer was enjoined upon me, fifty prayers each day. I came down until I reached Musa, who said, `What did your Lord enjoin upon your Ummah' I said, `Fifty prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do fifty prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' So I went back, and the number was reduced by ten. I came back to Musa and he asked, `What were you commanded to do' I said, `Forty prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do forty prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' So I went back, and the number was reduced by ten. I came back to Musa and he asked, `What were you commanded to do' I said, `I was commanded to do thirty prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do thirty prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' So I went back, and the number was reduced by ten. I came back to Musa and he asked, `What were you commanded to do' I said, `Twenty prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do twenty prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' So I went back, and the number was reduced by ten more. I came back to Musa and he asked, `What were you commanded to do' I said, `Ten prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do ten prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' So I went back, and I was commanded to do five prayers every day. I came back to Musa and he asked, `What were you commanded to do' I said, `Five prayers each day.' He said, `Your Ummah will not be able to do five prayers each day. I tried the people before you, I had to deal with the Children of Israel and it was very difficult for me. Go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the burden on your Ummah.' I said, `I have asked my Lord until I feel too shy. I accept this and submit to Him.' Then a voice called out: `My order has been decreed and I have reduced the burden on My servants.'

So, this was all that happened. Now, to your question as how cud a Prophet negotiate ! It was by Allah's will.Prophet, always bothered for the ummah.So he must have thought, as Musa AS said that the the ummah cannot pray. It is the mercy of Allah swt that he reduced the number of prayers.We find that it was Musa AS, who was sending him again and again.Musa AS, said out of his experience, Musa suggested him to go back until the number was reduced to five. Even after five times it was obligated, Musa AS,tried to send him again to the Lord. But this time, Allah swt decreed that He did reduce the burden. Scholars say that Musa AS, actually wanted to meet Prophet Muhammad {Pbuh} again and again. So he kept on reducing the number.Allah swt knows  the best.

Suppose if, it were, 50 times obligatory for us to offer prayers, we would be busy all the day and night.Every 15 minutes, we would have had to offer salah. Allah swt says in the Qur'an that the purpose of creation of man is to worship hi, So by these 50 times prayers, we would be busy with the purpose of creation. But it is the mercy of our Lord that He reduced the number to 5, but the reward we get is of 50 prayers. This way, if we offer these 5 obligatory prayers with sincerity and purity of intention, then we get reward of 50 prayers. Thus, we will be written as the one who fulfills his purpose of creation.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: ďAll the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 11:43pm

To your next question about direction of prayers, before that Jr87, let me tell you that Prophet Muhammad {Pbuh} was sent with the same message and mission, as was Prophet Musa sent to jews. It the same Lord towards whom both the Prophets called for worship. Also kindly note the Qur'an was revealed, during the period of Prophet Muhammad. These verses were revealed, anytime and the believers had to accept and follow the commands of the Lord.


 Now, coming to the subject, for few months {18 months} muslims prayed on the command of Allah swt facing the Jerusalem. But immediately whem it was commanded to face Kabah, muslims followed the command

It was actually a trial from Allah swt, He was testing the muslims. Those who were hypocrites, joined with jews and felt wrong, when the direction was changed. Immediately Allah swt revealed, that east and west belongs to Allah swt. What matters is adherence to the command of Allah swt. What matter is piety. Allah refutes the Jewish assertion that the Prophet faced their Qiblah, as they knew in their Books that the Prophet will later on be commanded to face the Qiblah of Ibrahim, the Ka`bah. The Arab disbelievers had no more argument concerning the Prophet's Qiblah after Allah commanded the Prophet to face the Qiblah of Ibrahim, which is more respected and honored, rather than the Qiblah of the Jews. The Arabs used to honor the Ka`bah and liked the fact that the Messenger was commanded to face it

You can kindly let us know, if any of the points are not yet cleared. Insha Allah, other members shall give you a better explanation.




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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: ďAll the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 07 July 2009 at 3:10am
As Salamu Alaikum,Seek.good work!


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 07 July 2009 at 8:29am

Salam jr87

I don't understand how it is possible that the prophet, who is supposed 2 be an ordinary man.. can just negotiate something like that with God.

Seekshidayath gave a great answer. I would just like to add that as the hadith says:

So, return to your Lord and request Him (to reduce the number of prayers.' I returned and requested Allah (for reduction) and He made it forty

Prophet Muhammad did not negotiate. He did not tell Allah that my people will not pray 50 times a day. Make it less. He requested Allah to make the number of obligatory prayers less. I agree that prophets cannot negotiate a commandment of God but prophets can request God to lessen the load of a commandment. Allah has full authority to say no but He is very merciful and He did not turn prophet Muhammad's request down. This hadith tells us about the attitude of Allah. In the end, the number of prayers was reduced to 5 not because Allah said that He would not lessen it. Instead the prophet himself did not go to Allah for further reduction.

also- when Islam was still young - I read the Muslims did not pray towards the kabaa but the direction of where the jews prayed-but eventually this changed ..but I dont understand why there was some conformity when Islam is supposed to be the true religion, and then how all of a sudden it changed

The details of the change of direction of worship has been given in Quran 2:142-147. I would advise you to read that with explanation.


002.142
سَيَقُولُ السُّفَهَاءُ مِنَ النَّاسِ مَا وَلاهُمْ عَنْ قِبْلَتِهِمُ الَّتِي كَانُوا عَلَيْهَا قُلْ لِلَّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ
002.142
The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.

This is the reasons of the change of direction. Allah is not limited to one direction only. If I pray towards the west that does not mean that Allah is in that direction.

It was also done to show that in Islam, a good deed is not just to follow a few rituals of praying towards East or West. It is so much more than that as Allah says in the Quran


002.177
لَيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَنْ تُوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلائِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّائِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُوا وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاءِ وَالضَّرَّاءِ وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ
002.177 It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or W
est; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.

Al-Qur'an, 002.177 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Hope I helped.

Peace




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