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"FUTURE" THOUGHTS

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14734
Printed Date: 16 September 2014 at 8:32pm


Topic: "FUTURE" THOUGHTS
Posted By: Nazarene
Subject: "FUTURE" THOUGHTS
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 4:53am
 
ASSLAAM ALAIKUM !!
 
    i've noticed an intrest in this topic from those in this forum both muslim and christain. i would like to start a new thread on the subject of the future. as a muslim i know it's all in gods hands and only he knows the time. it's not our place to proclaim what , when or where.
     but allah gives us signs in both New Testement and the Qu'ran. so that we may be assured of the truth of the message. so that WE SHALL BE RECONIZED by god on the last day as faithful and true. this being said i shall start things off.
 
        i'll state here for arguement that the below implicates the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THE RELIGIONS BASED UPON THIER FAITH.
 

Revelation 17:3-4 (New International Version)

 3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

is there a religion that covers the globe whos offical colors are PURPLE AND SCARLET? LOOK IN THE CORNER OF THE CHRISTAIN FLAG. WHAT COLOR IS THE FIELD? WHAT COLOR IS THE CROSS? and does the head of the roman church adorn himself with gold precious stones and pearls?

    Revelation 17:5 (New International Version)

       5This title was written on her forehead:
                                MYSTERY
                 BABYLON THE GREAT
            THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
      AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

it's the christain thought that this refers to the false religion that consumes the earth in the end of times. lets take a closer look at this " mystery " 
 
first lets look at the word {MYSTERY}
 
    
1mys·tery http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?myster02.wav=mystery">
%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Listen%20to%20the%20pronunciation%20of%201mystery
Pronunciation:
\ˈmis-t(ə-)rē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural mys·ter·ies
Etymology:
Middle English mysterie, from Latin mysterium, from Greek mystērion, from mystēs initiate
Date:
14th century
1 a: a religious truth that one can know only by revelation and cannot fully understand b (1): any of the 15 events (as the Nativity, the Crucifixion, or the Assumption) serving as a subject for meditation during the saying of the rosary (2)capitalized : a Christian sacrament ; specifically : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eucharist - eucharist c (1): a secret religious rite believed (as in Eleusinian and Mithraic cults) to impart enduring bliss to the initiate (2): a cult devoted to such rites2 a: something not understood or beyond understanding : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enigma - enigma bobsolete : a private secret c: the secret or specialized practices or ritual peculiar to an occupation or a body of people <the mysteries of the tailor's craft> d: a piece of fiction dealing usually with the solution of a http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mysterious - mysterious crime3: profound, inexplicable, or secretive quality or character <the mystery of her smile>
 
  now that we have a definition how do we aply it . well the next line gives the clue:
      
                           BABYLON THE GREAT
sence the topic is religion we must assume MYSTERY being spoken of here is the practices of BABYLON THE GREAT. so what were they?
 
    1] Crusifiction. this practice was invented by babylon the great and later perfected by Rome.
 
   2]Sacrifice of atonement. this was also practiced by BABYLON THE GREAT.{ they would combine to the two as a human sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin to have a prosporus life and a bountiful harvest to the god DAGON.AND THE { " SON " }  OF DAGON WAS  BAAL in BABYLONION AND Cannite faith in which they two would sacrifice people for the same reasons}
 
 
3] Kneeling to pray with hands together. in the carvings from BABYLON THE GREAT you'll find the preists of Dagon praying with there hands together and worshipers kneeling with hands together.
 
                       
                    THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
all that follow this religion or so to say sub-religions based upon the thoughts and practices of the MOTHER or orgins of thier religion of faith.
 
     AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
no group of people in the history of the world comited more sinful crimes aginst humanity that CHRISTANITY! from the persecution of the jews and so called non-believers thoughout history { inquisitions :spain 60,000 to 150'000 killed in the name of jesus. france:100,000 to 250,000. including my people}
then the burning of women as witches. at least 500,000 killed. many as young 9 yrs old. mostly because they learned of mathmatics, to read , to think as free people.these are just a drop in the bucket over 1600 yrs.
 
i'll leave it here for now. i invite all if they wish to paste other posts they may have ealse where here to save drifting in " other topics "
love
leland


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love for all conquers all



Replies:
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 22 May 2009 at 1:27pm
I would not put too much faith in what Revelations has to say.  In fact, I don't think we should put any faith in Revelations.  It can be interpreted in so many ways.  The Quran and Hadiths should be sufficient for us.  By us, I mean Muslims, of course.  

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 23 May 2009 at 5:10pm

Salaam!

I endorse what u has said islamispeace that is the way; Islam (Quran) abrogates all scriptures! However, for the benefit of Christians I will try to give some thought using the same methodology the Christian’s commentators used.

To identify who revelation 17 is talking about, first, you have to identify where the church is.

This is one of my articles I’ve posted some time back:

The universal Prophet and the persecution of the Church

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2012&version=9 -

     Revlation12:1-2 says: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; A WOMAN clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”

According to some Christian’s Scholars the “woman” represents the church and some says the “woman” represents the Jewish nation and the male child is Jesus (S).  In truth…it represents the “church” and not the “Jewish nation!” The Man child who was to rule all nations, he is the universal Prophet who brought the universal book which I have explained in Rev.10 and 14:6-7. After he brought the universal Book he died and caught up unto God and to his throne. It is not Jesus (S) as the Christian’s Scholars promoting. On the contrary when Jesus (S) comes, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2019:19-20&version=9 - says: “the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered to make war against him…and his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet …these both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”  Not caught up unto God!  

    The saints that mentioned in Revelation 19:7-8 are the believers and they came fromher and she” which is referring to the “church” when the church is well establish for the coming of the Messiah: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saint.” Rev.19:7-8

  The church was divided in to two groups or branches: Rev.12:14 “And to the woman were given two wings.  And Rev.11:4-5 These are the two olive trees, and two candlestick standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth (used the word of God), and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

  Candlesticks represent churches:  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%201:20&version=9 - …the seven CANDLESTICKS which thou sawest ARE SEVEN CHURCHES.

Also, woman represented a great city: “And the woman which thou saws is that great city…” (Rev.17:18)

 The Church here is “Islam” and the “two wings or the two olive trees and two candlestick” is the two branches from the same church…the two large groups of Muslims: Abu Hurayrah said, “The Prophet (S) said, ‘The Hour will not come until the following events have come to pass: two large groups will fight one another, and there will be many casualties; they will both be following the same religious teaching… Knowledge will disappear, earthquake will increase, time will pass quickly, affliction will appear, and Harj (i.e. killing) will increase. Wealth will increase…People will compete in constructing high building…the sun will rise from the west; When it rises and people see it, the will believe, but, “no good will it do a soul to believe then, if he believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith…”(al-An am 6:158; Bukhari, kitab al-Fitan,9/74)

  Crown of twelve stars: as for Ishmael…twelve prince shall he beget; I will make him a great nation. ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2017:20&version=9 - )

  And she (the woman which is the church) brought forth a MAN CHILD, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.   (Rev.12:5) 

  That is Muhammad (S) and not Jesus (S)! The second coming of Jesus (S) he will not caught up unto God again. Also, it is a known fact that Jesus (S) didn’t rule any one with a rod of iron (Psalm 2:9: You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.) before he caught up unto God. In fact, Christians believe that he was captured and kill on the cross.

 

Second point: Jesus (S) thought his followers to pray for the coming kingdom: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:9-13&version=9 - - Matthew 6:9-10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.  10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

“His’ will” shall be done on earth! What is the will? God’s will is his divine law. Jesus (S) said: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207:21-22&version=9 - - Matthew 7:21-22

The will of the Father will establish when that male child would have come: “…Now comes Salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and power of his Christ (anointed)… (Rev.12:10). Jesus (S) said it in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:9-13&version=9 - - Matt. 6:10 :  “Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:9-13&version=9 - - Matt. 6:10  

It mentioned in http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+13:29&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 - - Luke 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall taken from you (The Jews), and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=mt+21%3A43&section=0&it=kjv&oq=mt%252021%3A43&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=mt&ng=21&ncc=21 - - Matt.21:43

This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (In Mecca) ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2021:42-44&version=9 - - Matt.21:42 )

Jesus (S) did not fit that but Muhammad (S) did.

 

If they say, in his second coming; the scripture mentioned, he will come to the Church when it is already established (his wife hath made herself ready). “wife” there represented the Church and fine linen is the righteousness of the saint.

It read:” Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. 8 And to her (the church) was granted that she (the church) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saint.” (V.7-8)

And Rev.12:10 mentioned: “…Now comes Salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and power of his Christ… (Rev.12:10).

That would mean, “Salvation” is yet to come, so what happen to the crucifixion? They don’t have their story together!

 

THE “MISTRY BABYLON” BEGINNS HERE WITH THE “GREAT RED DRAGON”

  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horn, and seven crowns upon his heads. (Rev.12:3)   

The great red dragon: It is the Pagan Empire, the enemy of the church which is the sixth king: “And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come.” ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:10&version=9 - )

  At the time of this prophesies in Rev.17:10 five Empire has fallen and one exists at the time of this prophesy (The Pagan Empire) and the other (Modern day Pagan Empire) is yet to come. The Pagans wage war against the Roman Christian (people of the Book) and defeated them, then Allah revealed to Muhammad (S) The Romans have been defeated. In the nearest land Syria Iraq Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these events) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persians).” (N.Q.30:2-4)

  Then the Roman Christian (the people of the Book) under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_against_Heraclius - . After which the Romans reject the Message of the Qur’an, then Allah remove them from the light and place them into darkness, and then there were overpower by Islam in 638 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_century - ). Islam took Heracles by surprise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinople - . I’ve added in brackets to explain:

  And the woman (the church that Great City) fled into the wilderness [of Paran (Arabia) Gen.21:21], where she hath a place prepared of God, that they (Pilgrims) should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (Rev.12:6)

   After the Romans were defeated by the Muslims, there emerges a “new” Christianity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I - (590-604), he converted the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Great Britain to his new form of Christianity (Pagan Christianity) which later known as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade -   [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy - - ] then evolve in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - as the eight king (Modern day Pagan’s Empire) and he will go into eternal damnation. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - - Rev.17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - And when he had open the forth seal…a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the forth part of the earth (New world: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - ), to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

…the devil (Iblis) and Satan (Jinn), which deceive the whole world: he was cast out into the earth… (Rev.12:9) And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (the church that great city) which brought forth the man child (the universal Prophet). ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2012:13&version=9 - )

The “ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade - ( http://www.globalfreemasonry.com/articles_01.html - .) led by Pope Urban II in 1095, he manage to mobilize France England Germany and Italy to persecute the woman (the church that great city).

In http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2012:14-17&version=9 - it mentioned: “And to the woman (the church that great city) were given ‘two wings’ (Which is the two church)…that she might fly into the wilderness [of Paran, Gen.21:21], into her place where she is nourished for a time, and time, and half a time, from the face of the serpent (The Crusaders). (Rev.12:14)

And the serpent (Crusaders) cast out of his mouth water (water represent people, See Rev.17:15. these are Missionary) as a flood after the woman (the church that great city), that he might cause her to be carried (convert) away of the flood (by Missionaries). (Rev.12:15) 

And the (wealth of the) earth helped the woman (the church that great city), and the (wealth of the) earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood (Missionaries) which the dragon (Crusaders) cast out of his mouth. (Rev.12:16)

The Missionaries were swallowed up by the wealth of the earth, they seek after material gains.

 And the dragon (Crusaders) was wroth (angry) with the woman (the church that great city), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God (universal message: the Qur’an), and the testimony (true teaching) of Jesus Christ. (Rev.12:17)

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 24 May 2009 at 6:49pm
"According to some Christian’s Scholars the “woman” represents the church and some says the “woman” represents the Jewish nation and the male child is Jesus (S).  In truth…it represents the “church” and not the “Jewish nation!” "
 
 
Where is the proof of this?  Did you provide any?  And where did this whole "interpretation" come from?  Was it some muslim "think-tank"?


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"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 25 May 2009 at 10:41pm

Doo-bop,  it’s not an interpretation, it is an explanation! Compare it to the explanation of these two links:

http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/mhc/MHC66012.HTM - Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible [Revelation XII].

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/Revelation-chapter-12.html - What does Revelation chapter 12 mean?



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 25 May 2009 at 11:34pm

I am giving you some help, Doo-bop:   

After the Romans were defeated by the Muslims, there emerges a “new” Christianity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I - (590-604), he converted the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Great Britain to his new form of Christianity (Pagan Christianity) which later known as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade -   [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy - ] then evolve in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - as the eight king (Modern day Pagan’s Empire) and he will go into eternal damnation. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - And when he had open the forth seal…a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the forth part of the earth (New world: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - ), to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5373525/Tony-Blair-believed-God-wanted-him-to-go-to-war-to-fight-evil-claims-his-mentor.html - Tony Blair believed God wanted him to go to war to fight evil, claims his mentor - Telegraph

I've highlited Clip:

Tony Blair viewed his decision to go to war in Iraq and Kosovo as part of a "Christian battle", according to one of his closest political allies.

"It's very simple to explain the idea of Blair the Warrior," he says. "It was part of Tony living out his faith."

Mr Blair has previously admitted that he was influenced by his Christian faith, but Mr Burton reveals for the first time the strength of his religious zeal.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm -   Link:  http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm - http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

Clip:

The First Prince of the Theocratic States of America

 It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it. http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm#_edn1 - - [2] On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition.

 Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the United States of America to take his rightful place as the head of the true American Holy Christian Church.

 Robertson’s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation….

 

Notwithstanding the advice, the President’s foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that “nations are either with us or they’re against us!” His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of God’s wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the “axis of evil,” but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned God’s wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives.

 tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 1:20am

Doo-bop, truth-now-comes:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article22698.htm -        Biblical Prophesy and the Iraq War                      : Information Clearing House - ICH

I’ve highlighted Clip:

Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on “a mission from God” in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord. http://www.counterpunch.org/hamilton05222009.html#_ftn5 - -

There can be little doubt now that President Bush’s reason for launching the war in Iraq was, for him, fundamentally religious. He was driven by his belief that the attack on Saddam’s Iraq was the fulfilment of a Biblical prophesy in which he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord…

While a senior at Yale University George W. Bush was a member of the exclusive and secretive Skull & Bones society. His father, George H.W. Bush had also been a “Bonesman”, as indeed had his father. Skull & Bones’ initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior’s nickname? “Magog”.

------------------

 

You have to read to believe!

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 5:55am
I am not a Muslim but if I was I wouldn't touch the hadith.
 
Any person that trys to fulfill a prophecy from GOD is really, really st**id.  You don't chose to be an instrument in GOD's plan, it is His plan, not ours!!


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 12:44pm
sallams to all!
 
     very interesting tnc. please keep resonding. very interesting! i'm at a loss right now myself but will jump in shortly!
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 4:20pm

 salaam to all

 there once was an army in recorded history that went into battle dessed in pure white linen. THE MUSLIM ARMY during the " GOLDEN AGE OF ISLAM ".

also the last battle fought that defeted the CRUSADERS was in a VALLEY NORTH OF JERUSALAM. badly out numbered the muslims led the CRUSADERS into the valley then SET THE VALLEY ON FIRE AND BURNED THEM UP!!! this my friends was the BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON.

 BELOW SPEAKS OF MUHAMMAD AND THE MUSLIMS
 
Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version)

The Rider on the White Horse
 11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.  {a name unknown to history} 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. {THIS  IS MUHAMMAD}     14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.{ THE MUSLAIM ARMY }     15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.{ THE QU'RAN } "He will rule them with an iron scepter[meaning the everlasting good news]." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
      
 KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. {THIS MEANS " IN THE NAME OF GOD"AS IN TIMOTHY 6:15 "God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords".} 
 
 17And I saw an angel st anding in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

 19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.

we also see that there is a contradiction here. in verse 12 it states "He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself." and yet in verse 16 the "name" written on him is now clear and understandable{ now meaning jesus}. something was lost here the "church" did not want people to know. 
 
also jesus states in his own words "I HAVE NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD BUT TO SAVE IT" so much for verse 11.
jesus's return will take place after the above takes place
 
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 26 May 2009 at 11:25pm

Revelation 19 has to do with war in the mid air. It says here: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7)

And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the          MARRIAGE SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9)

 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may EAT the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the MARRIGE SUPPER to eat of those people. It is all about war, they will destroy them from mid air. It has to do with modern day plane! John described them as “bird in mid of heaven”. Plane has nothing to do with Muhammad (S) but it has to do in modern day war at the return of Jesus (S).

I will explain that later after I would have finish with revelation 13 and 17; then you will see how the history apply to rev. 19, isshallah.

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 12:09am
Originally posted by believer

I am not a Muslim but if I was I wouldn't touch the hadith.
 
Any person that trys to fulfill a prophecy from GOD is really, really st**id.  You don't chose to be an instrument in GOD's plan, it is His plan, not ours!!

Believer, he didn’t say, “he chooses” to be an instrument of God; He said: “…he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord…”

In other words, he was chosen by God to serve as the instrument for him. Just like when Paul was supposingly chosen by Jesus (S) whom he never met nor see, to preach the Gospel (Good news of the kingdom of god) to the Gentiles!  Not forgetting, Jesus (S) already sends out his disciples to preach the Gospel (Good news of the Kingdom of God) to the Gentiles: And he said unto them (his disciples), Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel (Good News of the Kingdom of God) to every creature. http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mr+16:15&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 -

 11-And he said unto me (John), Thou must prophesy again before many people, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Rev.10:11)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article22698.htm -

I’ve highlighted Clip:

Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on “a mission from God” in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord. http://www.counterpunch.org/hamilton05222009.html#_ftn5 -

There can be little doubt now that President Bush’s reason for launching the war in Iraq was, for him, fundamentally religious. He was driven by his belief that the attack on Saddam’s Iraq was the fulfilment of a Biblical prophesy in which he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord…

While a senior at Yale University George W. Bush was a member of the exclusive and secretive Skull & Bones society. His father, George H.W. Bush had also been a “Bonesman”, as indeed had his father. Skull & Bones’ initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior’s nickname? “Magog”.

tnc


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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 12:24am

So http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel8:23&version=9 - “And in the later (which is now) of there Kingdom, when the transgressors (CRUSADERS) are come to the full, a KING OF FIERCE COUNTENANCE, and understanding dark sentences, shall standup.”

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%208.24-25&version=9 - - Daniel 8.24 His POWER shall be MIGHTY, but not by his own power (By the Power of U.N.): and he shall DISTROY WONDERFULLY, and shall PROSPER, and practice, and shall DISTROY the MIGHTY and the HOLY PEOPLE (MUSLIMS).

 And by ‘PEACE’ shall DESTROY MENY

And through his (FOREIGN) “POLICY” also he shall cause craft to prosper in “HIS LAND” (trough World Trade); and he shall magnify himself in his heart (Rev.18:7…I sit as a Queen, and am no widow, and shall see NO SORROW), and by "PEACE" shall DESTROY MENY He shall also stand up against the Prince of Peace; but he shall be broken without hand. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%208:25&version=9 - - Daniel 8:25

Who is calling for "PEACE" by the means of WAR? THE CRUSADERS! They fit the profile. 

And the beast…he is the eight…and goeth into PERDITION…V.14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and Lamb shall overcome them….( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:11-14&version=9 - - Rev.17:11 )

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the “ man of lawlessness” is revealed, the man doomed to destruction" ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians%202&version=51 - - 2 Thess. 2:3 NLT).

  PRINCE OF PEACE: “The Messiah” in his second coming in the last days to destroy their IMPERIAL KINGDOM. The same prophesy that mentioned in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:3&version=9 - “THE BEAST AND TEN HORN” is mentioned in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:7&version=9 - and http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:23%20&version=9 - - 7:23 The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon the earth, which shall be diverse from ALL  the KINGDOM, and shall DEVOUR the WHOLE EATRH, and tread it down, and break it to in pieces. (Which is Brittan then come the West: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:11&version=9 - eight which is of the seventh…)

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy - -   then evolve in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - as the eight king (Modern day Pagan’s Empire) and he will go into eternal damnation. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 - - And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation6:7-8&version=9 - - Rev. 6:7-8   And when he had open the forth seal…a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the “forth part” of the earth (New world: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - ), to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:24-26&version=9 - - Daniel 7:24 (the eight)…he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue “THREE KINGS” (AFGAN, IRIQ and Somalia).

 Daniel 7:25 And he shall SPEAK GREAT WORDSS against the Most High (ALLAH and ISLAM), and shall WEARE THE SAINTS (MUSLIMS) of the Most High, and “THINK TO CHANGE... (ISLAMIC) LAW:” ….

 Daniel 7:26 But JUDGNENT SHALL SIT and they (Saints: Muslims) shall take away his dominion, to consume and destroy it unto the END

What JUDGMENT? http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.14:6-7%20&version=9 - - Rev.14:6-7 “the everlasting Gospel”…for the hour of the JUDGMENT is come…

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2042:1-4%20&version=9 - - Isaiah 42:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2042:1-4%20&version=9 - - He shall not fail nor be discourage, till he set have set JUDGMENT in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his LAW.

   Qur’an 25:1 Blessed is He Who sent down the CRITERION (of JUDGMENT between right and wrong)….

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jude%201:14-15%20&version=9 - - Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

  15To execute JUDGMENT upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:27&version=9 - - Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominions, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole earth, shall be given to the SAINTS (MUSLIMS at the return of the Messiah (S)…) WHOSE KINGDOM IS AN EVERLASTING KINGDOM…

   …at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear. Thou didst tresh the heathen in anger. Thou [Muhammad (S)] wentest forth for Salvation of thy people, even Salvation for the ANOINTED [Messiah Jesus (S): his second coming to establish Islam]; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Se-lah. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Habakkuk.3:11-13&version=9 - - (Habak.3:11-13)

He [the Holy one from Mt. Paran (Arabia)] stood and measured the earth (universal message): he beheld and drove asunder the nations…His way are everlasting. (Habak.3:6)                                                                               http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%202:44&version=9 - - and in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a KINGDOM, WHICH SHALL NEVER DESTROY: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but BREAK IN PIECES and CONSUME ALL THESE KINGDOM, AND IT SHALL STAND FOR EVER.

   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2029:%2012-14&version=9 - - Isaiah 29: 12-14 (WHEN THE UNLETTRED PROPHET COMES)…for the WISDOM OF THE WISE MAN SHALL PERISH…

   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%207:28&version=9 - - Daniel 7:28 HITHERTO IS THE END OF THE MATTER…

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 6:12pm
assalaam alaikum everyone!
 
   bro. tnc . been reading you posts and find them facinating thought. insight that must leave our christain friends speechless, or so it seems.
   so let me ask you something in their place. i posted some thoughts on Rev 17. in the opener. whats your view on this chapter, or my simple take on it.
   i agree on islam as the " church ". jesus himself says it's not his name and death. but his message and teachings that he brought us in life that will tell the true church from the false one. remember they asked "how shall we build your church? he replied " go tell the good news of the kingdom ".
leland
   


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Nazarene

assalaam alaikum everyone!
 
   bro. tnc . been reading you posts and find them facinating thought. insight that must leave our christain friends speechless, or so it seems.
   so let me ask you something in their place. i posted some thoughts on Rev 17. in the opener. whats your view on this chapter, or my simple take on it.
   i agree on islam as the " church ". jesus himself says it's not his name and death. but his message and teachings that he brought us in life that will tell the true church from the false one. remember they asked "how shall we build your church? he replied " go tell the good news of the kingdom ".
leland
   

Salaam!

     Let us look at what Jesus (S) said about the kingdom of God (The coming of Islam) and you will see how revelation 17 falls in place.

Matthew13:24-30

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

    That happens when Paul had the visit which he claimed that it was Jesus (S) whom he never met nor saw before: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%209:1-8&version=9 -

 3And as he (Paul) journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

 4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

 5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

What Jesus (S) said? He said:  5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%209:1-8&version=9 -   

 

Note: Paul never met Jesus (S) and he said: “he saw a light” and “heard a voice” and the voice claimed that: “he is Jesus”

What is most striking is the divine word the voice mentioned: “it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%209:1-8&version=9 - KJV. Is that a word from God’s mouth or the Devil?

What Jesus said? For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9 - - Matthew24 :5  

 Then the message reinforce at the counsel of Nicaea Council 325 A.D. the new form of Christianity: http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/NicaeaCouncil325.htm -

 

Jesus (S) continues Matthew13:24-30:

26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 Matthew13:36-44

 36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

 37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

What is the good seed that Jesus (S) sowed? It is the message of the coming of the Kingdom of God (Islam)!

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

  

You see that! The Devil Church is running parallel with the Kingdom of God (Islam). So we have two Churches now.

REVELATION17AND13

  It is mentioned in the book of http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

And in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%203:9&version=9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

  As we understand the “fake Jews” was described as the “CHURCH OF SATAN”.  Now watch the connection with THE FALSE CHURCH AND BEAST 666

It is mentioned in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation17&version=9 - - Rev.17:3 …And I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

  I have established in Rev.12 that the woman mentioned there represents the church and the woman also represents a great city. Rev.17:18 “And the woman…is that Great City, which reigneth over the kings of the earth...”  But only this time the woman (the church that great city) is described as a “Great Whore” in Rev.17:1

  in Rev.17:1-4 it stated: “And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

  Rev.17:15 And he saith unto me, the waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

  Rev.17: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

  Rev.17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

  Rev.17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”

  She is one that is married and has been false to her husband’s bed. In other words, the “church” is carrying the scripture but “false” to the true teaching of God and she sit on the scarlet coloured BEAST, “full of blasphemy”, having seven head and ten horn.

  She is described as: “MISTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:5&version=9 - - Rev.17:5)

 (Brackets added)

And the angel said: “And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountain, on which the woman (false church that great city) sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; but when he cometh, he must continue a short space.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:9-10&version=9 - - (Rev.17:9-10)

 The seven head are seven Great City, five has fallen and one exist (the Pagan Empire) at the time when this prophesy was revealed and the other is yet to come (Modern day Pagan Empire). The Pagans wage war against the Romans Christians (people of the Book) and defeat them, then Allah revealed to Muhammad (S) Q.30:2-4.

  The Romans have been defeated. In the nearest land Syria Iraq Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these event) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that day, the believers (Muslim) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persian). (N.Q.30:2-4)

   Although the message of Jesus (S) was tainted with Paul message he received from the supposed Jesus whom voice he only heard, Allah (S) still show favors to the people who follow the tainted message of Jesus (S) until the arrival of God Kingdom (Islam).

They were the Roman Christian (the people of the Book) and under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_against_Heraclius - . That was a blessing for the Muslim. Then the Romans reject the Message of the Qur’an (God’s Kingdom on earth), then Allah remove them from the light and place them into darkness, and then there were consume by Islam in 638 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_century - ). Islam took Heracles by surprise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinople - .After the Romans were defeated by the Muslims, there emerges a “new” Christianity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_I - (590-604), he converted the Anglo-Saxon invaders of Great Britain to his new form of Christianity (Pagan Christianity) which later known as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade -   [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heptarchy - ] then evolve in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - as the eight king (Modern day Pagan’s Empire) and he will go into eternal damnation. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2017:11&version=9 -  And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition. (Rev.17:11)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation6:7-8&version=9 - - Rev. 6:7-8   And when he had open the forth seal…a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him, And power was given unto him over the “forth part” of the earth (New world: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world - to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

  And the ten horn which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet, but received power as king one hour with the beast. (Rev.17:12)

And the angel poured out his vail upon the great river of Euphrates; and the water (people, see http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation17:15&version=9 - thereof dried up (Iran and Iraq war), that the way of the (ten) kings of the East might be prepared. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation16:12&version=9 - - (Rev.16:12)  

  And the ten horns (ten kings) which thou sawest upon the beast (Pagan Empire: world government), these shall hate the whore (false church that great city), and make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:16&version=9 - - (Rev.17:16)

That’s what will happen in our life time (shortly).

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 31 May 2009 at 1:13am

BEASTS 666: REVELATION 13

  And I (John) stood upon the sand of the sea (seaside), and saw a BEAST rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns…and upon his head the name of blasphemy. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation13&version=9 - - ( - -

   He will wage war from the sea: Aircraft carrier.

(Brackets added to explain)

  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name (Allah), and his tabernacle (the Kingdom of God, Islam), and them that dwell in heaven. (Rev.13:6)

  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (Muslim), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Rev.13:7)

  The question is who is ruling the world now (having power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations), invading country and dropping bomb at will in them without permission? I know the “West” and also “Israel” dropped “bombs” on Saddam’s nuclear site in the past and other Muslims countries, Lebanon and Syria what they did to them the other day.

 

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship (obeyed) him… (Rev.13:8)

  And the beast (Modern day Pagan Empire) which I saw was like unto a leopard (camouflage), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (his military strength), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (when he speak the world will afraid): and the dragon (the seventh king: the Crusaders: British Empire, See exp. of Rev.12) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (Rev.13:2)

 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eight, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition. (Rev.17:11)

 …and all the world wondered after the beast. (Rev.13:3)

 And there was given unto him a mouth (media) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev.13:5)

  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and faith of the saints. (Rev.13:10)

 

And beheld another beast (Zionist movement: The fake Jews: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - - Rev.2:9 “…I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.) coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb (Zionist Judaism and Zionist Christianity) and he spake as a dragon (Crusaders: claiming the holy land). And he exercised all the power of the first beast (Modern Day Pagan Empire) before him, and caused the earth and them which dwell therein to worship (obeyed) the first beast (M.D.P.E.)(Rev.13:11-12)

Zionist Judaism and Zionist Christianity: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11065.htm - ), < http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11065.htm - >

 

  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire (missile: 1967) come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles (technology) which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image (W.T.C) to the beast… (Rev.13:13-14)

Missile: 1967 LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War - >

    And there was given unto him a mouth (media) speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev.13:5)

1967 + 42 years will take them into the year 2009 they will rein, and then they will fall.

And it mentioned in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2012:12&version=9 - “…Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” (Until 2009)

  And he had power to give life (business and trade) unto the image (W.T.C.) of the beast (modern day Pagan Empire: the world Government), that the image (W.T.C.) of the beast should both (the traders and the world government) speak, and cause that many as would not worship (trade with) the image (W.T.C.) of the beast should be killed. (Rev.13:15)

   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to received a mark (credit card) in their right hand, or in their forehead (identification: Social Security Number): And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark (credit card or Social Security Number), or the name (their kind) of the beast, or the number of his name. (Rev.13:16)

And the woman (false church)…is that Great City, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (Rev.17:18)

Which Great City is “reigning” over the Kings of the earth at present?

These (ten kings) have one mind (believe) and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall over come them: for he is Lord of Lord, and king of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen and faithful. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation17:13-14&version=9 - - (Rev.17:13-14)

Lord of Lords is used metaphorically to indicate power. For example, Paul referred to the devil a “god” in 2nd Corinthians 4:4 “in their case the “god” of this world had blind the minds of the unbelievers…”

      And Lord said unto Moses, see I made thee a “god” to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy Prophet. ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%207:1&version=9 - - Exodus 7:1 )

 The Lamb would not win the war, he shall overcome them.

 For God hath put in their heart to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.17:17&version=9 - - (Rev.17:17).

 And the ten horns (ten kings from the east) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore (false church that great city), and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire, (Rev.17:16)

 

 

       http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm - - How 6 million People Were killed in CIA secret wars against third world countries: < http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm>

Eye in the sky: G.P.S, x-ray vision spy satellite. See this link: < http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/news-article.aspx?storyid=99053 - >

Assassination by Air, Terminator Planet: Launching the Drone Wars

By Tom Engelhardt < http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22377.htm>

 

See what other people have to say about the Beast 666:

Is it the Pope? http://www.worldslastchance.com/?gclid=CNDN55SK-YwCFSWQGgodYkBsDQ - : < http://worldslastchance.com/?gclid=CNDN55SK-YwCFSWQGgodYkBsDQ>

Link:   http://www.religion-cults.com/antichrist/mark.htm - 666 New World Order: <http://www.religion-cults.com/antichrist/mark.htm>

Link:  http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/index.html - : <http://www.greaterthings.com/Word-Number/666/index.html>

Link:  http://www.globalfreemasonry.com/articles_01.html - <http://www.globalfreemasonry.com/articles_01.html>

Link:    http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/17.htm - http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/17.htm -

Link:   http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/13.htm -  <http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/revelation/13.htm>

 

 

tnc

 



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 5:27am

assalaam my brother.

  still no reply from our christain fellows on this topic. THE REVELATION has always been their "claim to fame" so to speak...... maybe it's not theirs to claim!
 

Matthew 21:43 (King James Version)

 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

 John 4:21 

 21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

  Revelation 3:12 (King James Version)

 12Him that overcometh{ Muhammad} will I  make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem{ MECCA }, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. { ALLAH }.

YOU SEE THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS IS NOT THE ONE THAT COMES IN HIS NAME. BUT GODS......... IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!!!

leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 4:29pm
Who am I to speak out against someone else that believes the Holy Bible is the Word of GOD?
 
tnc is the only muslim I know that believes the Holy Bible is the Word of GOD.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 6:53pm
We all believe that my friend that to what you are referring as the Bible (OT and NT) is word of God that has been altered by some enemies of God who for their own interests corrupted it, as its contents prove.
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 18 June 2009 at 6:19am
Funny - your Quran confirms it and goes so far to say that it is protected for all of GOD's Holy Word is protected.

-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 18 June 2009 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by believer

Funny - your Quran confirms it and goes so far to say that it is protected for all of GOD's Holy Word is protected.
 
Its a pitty that either you have short memory or you keep on denying facts shown to you. I have shown you the quotes from the Quran that confirm alteration and corruption of God's revealed word now contained in the Bible. Yet you keep saying funny things my friend.
Hasan


-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 10 July 2009 at 11:23pm
Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.

If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

The second half of the 7 year time of the Antichrist, which is the Great Tribulation period, is in Revelation 12:14, which is the time, times, and half times which Israel flees to the wilderness to be protected from Satan.    It is the same time, times, and half times as is in Daniel 7:25, the reign of the little horn, which is a code name for the Antichrist.

You can read in Revelation 12:17 that Satan, unable to get to the woman who has fled into, Satan goes after her other children.    Those are the Jews who
did not flee out of Judea right away when there will be a statue of the slain Antichrist erected in the temple.    Those Jews are rescued at the end of the 7 years when Jesus returns to Jerusalem at the mount of Olives, Zecharaih 14.

I have given just the highlights.   I can't wrap up 37 years of study on theses topic in one post.   I will be glad to respond to any questions just to expand your knowledge base (even if you disagree with me), but I don't want to get into a super big debate because I don't have the energy or time.

Doug L.



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 4:07pm
Douggg, I would like to clear up some inconsistencies in your apocalyptic claims.  First, you claimed that all of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39, with the exception of Russia, are Muslim nations.  What about Gomer?  According to Easton's Bible Dictionary, http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd152.htm - Gomer is usually associated with South-eastern Europe and the Celts.  What about Cush, which has been generally associated with Ethiopia?  These are clearly not Muslim nations.  And even if most of the nations named are Muslim nations, what about the ones that are not mentioned geographically?  Indonesia?  Malaysia?  Bangladesh?  Pakistan? 

It seems to me that the prophecies in the Bible all center around nations that Israel has fought with in the past.  Could this be the origin of these prophecies?  Is it a subconscious hatred or suspicion which caused the Jewish sages to make up prophecies regarding those same nations? 

Anyways, to get to the point, Islam will not be destroyed.  Rather, as it has been mentioned by God, Islam will continue to thrive.  The Bible's obsession with the "chosen status" of the Jews disturbs me greatly.  God is not so narrow-minded.  He loves and prefers all nations and people, not one particular race.  


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg, I would like to clear up some inconsistencies in your apocalyptic claims.  First, you claimed that all of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38-39, with the exception of Russia, are Muslim nations.  What about Gomer?  According to Easton's Bible Dictionary, http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/ebd/ebd152.htm - Gomer is usually associated with South-eastern Europe and the Celts.


First I will let you know that I will not address you by your screen name because it is false.   If you have a personal first name, then let me know and I will address you accordingly.   I just don't want you to think I am being rude for no reason.   I am actually a very friendly person.

Concering Gomer as being South-eastern Europe, from wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam - Islam is the principal religion in the following countries:

  • Albania (majority)
  • Kosovo (majority)
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina (relative/partial majority)
  • Turkey
The celts, from that link you provided, as distant descendants do not count.

What about Cush, which has been generally associated with Ethiopia?  These are clearly not Muslim nations.  And even if most of the nations named are Muslim nations, what about the ones that are not mentioned geographically?  Indonesia?  Malaysia?  Bangladesh?  Pakistan?


Also, from wilkepedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush - Kingdom of Kush (Cush)
, an ancient nation in northeastern Africa comprising large areas within present-day Egypt and Sudan    Egypt and Sudan are Muslim.

Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan will not be involved in Gog/Magog.   The muslims in those countries and elsewhere worldwide will abandon Islam in 
the light of what Christians like me are saying to guys like you, especially for the past 20 years, comes to pass.   And for the same past 20 years, Muslims have denied it.  
 
It seems to me that the prophecies in the Bible all center around nations that Israel has fought with in the past.  Could this be the origin of these prophecies?  Is it a subconscious hatred or suspicion which caused the Jewish sages to make up prophecies regarding those same nations?


See, you, like all muslims, cannot accept Ezekiel 38 and 39 for what it says.  Because if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are true - then Islam is a false religion.

It is not an historic event.   It happens in the latter days, Ezekiel 38:8,16.  Afterwards, there will be a place called The valley of http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hamon-gog.html - Hamongog , the burial place of Gog's army Ezekiel 39:11.    Which doesn't exist on any current or historic map, proving that the event is still future.



Well, when I argue with Jews (Judaism), I get frustrated at their religious beliefs in their rejection of the gospel.    Nonetheless, Israel is God's chosen nation among the nations of the old human race descended from Adam.  It is not what they are now, but what they will become - Christians, the new human race, in the end, that God defends them in keeping his promises to their forefathers.

Back in the garden of eden, all of the future human race was "in Adam" when he disobeyed and became a "sinner.   Thus, all of the human race descended from Adam are "sinners".    In Jesus, God put the entirety of the human race of sinners past, present, future - and put all of them to death on the cross - "in Jesus".   For that reason, Jesus in the nt is called "the last Adam".    Meaning that all of the human race descended from Adam was put "in him".  

But being so crucified "in Christ", also "in Christ" all are raised a new human race when Jesus came back alive.   Thus, Jesus is called the "second man" in the new testament.   The new human race are saints "in Christ", not sinners, and are called Christians, those who have received the gospel of having been crucified and raised with Jesus. 
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/adam.html -
Your religion, inspired by Satan, denies both the crucifixion and the resurrection.... because by the death and resurrection, which "in Jesus" we share, men are borne again neither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation, set free from the old human race of sinners.

Likewise, Satan attempts to destroy Israel to prevent the promises of God made to the Jews from coming true.   Eventually, all of Israel will become saints, i.e Christians.   Open your eyes to the news.   Islam wants Israel destroyed.    Islam wants Christians to deny Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection.     But in Ezekiel 38 and 39, it is Islam, the muslim countries that God chooses to destroy.

Doug L.







Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 1:50pm
Douggg: First I will let you know that I will not address you by your screen name because it is false.   If you have a personal first name, then let me know and I will address you accordingly.   I just don't want you to think I am being rude for no reason.   I am actually a very friendly person.

I was debating whether I should respond to this or just ignore it and go straight into the main discussion.  But, I just had to respondJust to let you know in advance, this might get nasty, but it is a result of your words.  You asked for it, and you're gonna get it.

Fanatics like you have a deficient methodology of reasoning.  You say one thing, and do another.  You expose the hypocrisy within yourself. 

Case in point: Your little rambling session where you refuse to even address me by the user-name I have chosen shows your self-contradictory nature. 
I must say, you are the first fanatic Christian I have come across who didn't even want to address me by my user-name, and believe me, I have talked to many fanatics! Shocked

You say you are not being rude.  Well, where I come from, this is being rude.  Not that I care either way.  I could care less about your asinine views on Islam.  I could care even less about your crazy apocalyptic vision of a narrow-minded God.  My interest in even addressing your claims is to expose the hypocrisy and self-contradictory nature of you and your ilk, Douggie.


Douggg:
Concering Gomer as being South-eastern Europe, from wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam - Islam is the principal religion in the following countries:

  • Albania (majority)
  • Kosovo (majority)
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina (relative/partial majority)
  • Turkey
What about Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Macedonia, Romania, Slovenia and Ukraine?  Mostly Christian countries, they are, no? Confused


Douggg:
The celts, from that link you provided, as distant descendants do not count.


Why not?  Because you say so?  It seems to me that if all those nations are descended from Noah's sons, then descent plays an important role. 


Douggg:
Also, from wilkepedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush - Kingdom of Kush (Cush) , an ancient nation in northeastern Africa comprising large areas within present-day Egypt and Sudan    Egypt and Sudan are Muslim.

The very source you quote says the following:

"Having also been referred to as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia - Nubia , and as "Ethiopia" in ancient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece - Greek and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman - Greco-Roman records,"

It seems to me that the Biblical authors should have been a little more specific, don't you think?  They referred to vague geographical localities instead of referring to specific locations.  Go figure.


Douggg: Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan will not be involved in Gog/Magog.   The muslims in those countries and elsewhere worldwide will abandon Islam in 
the light of what Christians like me are saying to guys like you, especially for the past 20 years, comes to pass.   And for the same past 20 years, Muslims have denied it.


LOL Wishful thinking Dougggie!  Christians have been fantasying about destroying Islam for 14 centuries.  Not only have they always failed, but Islam has thrived and spread.  InshaAllah, it will always thrive. 


 Douggg: See, you, like all muslims, cannot accept Ezekiel 38 and 39 for what it says.  Because if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are true - then Islam is a false religion.

Well, can you blame me?  I don't normally believe vague nonsense! Big%20smile You on the other hand believe it!  Clap

Douggg: It is not an historic event.   It happens in the latter days, Ezekiel 38:8,16.  Afterwards, there will be a place called The valley of http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hamon-gog.html - Hamongog , the burial place of Gog's army Ezekiel 39:11.    Which doesn't exist on any current or historic map, proving that the event is still future.

You misunderstood.  Perhaps you should try to read clearly and not let your emotions get the better of your reason.  I was not saying that it was referring to a historical event.  I was saying that other confrontations the Israelites may have had with those same nations in the past may explain why the Jewish sages came up with these end-time scenarios involving those very nations.  It was a way to condemn them for the actions of their ancestors.  Its simple psychology. 

Douggg: Well, when I argue with Jews (Judaism), I get frustrated at their religious beliefs in their rejection of the gospel.    Nonetheless, Israel is God's chosen nation among the nations of the old human race descended from Adam.  It is not what they are now, but what they will become - Christians, the new human race, in the end, that God defends them in keeping his promises to their forefathers.

 
Perhaps that is why the Biblical Jesus was such a racist!  Calling the gentiles "dogs"!  Shocked  See, my Lord is not a racist.  He loves all nations and wants all nations to follow His laws.  He does not prefer one over another.  This is an invention of heretics of the past.  You and you ilk have betrayed Jesus and worst of all, you have betrayed God.  That is why the Quran says that Jesus will testify against you on the Day of Judgment:

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.  "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.  "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."   (5:116-118)

You still have time to reverse your blasphemous views on God and Jesus. 


Douggg: Back in the garden of eden, all of the future human race was "in Adam" when he disobeyed and became a "sinner.   Thus, all of the human race descended from Adam are "sinners".    In Jesus, God put the entirety of the human race of sinners past, present, future - and put all of them to death on the cross - "in Jesus".   For that reason, Jesus in the nt is called "the last Adam".    Meaning that all of the human race descended from Adam was put "in him".

Pure nonsense!  Every person is responsible for his/her own sins.  We don't "inherit" sin.  We choose it ourselves.  Ponder on the wisdom of the Quran a bit and open your eyes and ears:

(It will be said to him:) "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee."  Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent a messenger (to give warning). (17:14-15)

Adam and Eve committed a sin.  They were responsible for it, not us.  We are responsible for our own sins.  The nonsense of "original sin" betrays the fairness and justice of God. 

Douggg: But being so crucified "in Christ", also "in Christ" all are raised a new human race when Jesus came back alive.   Thus, Jesus is called the "second man" in the new testament.   The new human race are saints "in Christ", not sinners, and are called Christians, those who have received the gospel of having been crucified and raised with Jesus.


Perhaps you can answer a question I posed to the Christians here.  I never got a response. 

If Jesus' mission was to die for our sins, why did he not just kill himself?  Or arrange for some accident to occur?  Would that not be the same as being crucified, as long as the result was death?  And what about the ones who killed him (allegedly)?  Are they not the greatest heroes in the world?  I mean, come on, they basically ensured that Jesus' mission would be a success.  If they had not decided to kill him, then he could not die for our sins and therefore none of us would get saved.  So, the people who did kill him are heroes because they allowed for the mission to succeed and ensured that all who believed would go to Heaven.


Douggg: Your religion, inspired by Satan, denies both the crucifixion and the resurrection.... because by the death and resurrection, which "in Jesus" we share, men are borne again neither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation, set free from the old human race of sinners.


You're dang right it denies that nonsense.  Satan really worked one on you didn't he?  Persuading you to worship a mere man?  That Satan, what a trickster! 


Douggg: Likewise, Satan attempts to destroy Israel to prevent the promises of God made to the Jews from coming true.   Eventually, all of Israel will become saints, i.e Christians.   Open your eyes to the news.   Islam wants Israel destroyed.    Islam wants Christians to deny Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection.     But in Ezekiel 38 and 39, it is Islam, the muslim countries that God chooses to destroy.

Israel was created at the expence of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.  That is why many Muslims are against Israel.  It is a matter of justice.  There are many Jews who also criticize Israel.  There are also many Christians who criticize Zionist Christians such as yourself and your perverted view of God's justice and fairness.  The world doesn't revolve around Israel, Dougggie.  Its much too big. 




-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: First I will let you know that I will not address you by your screen name because it is false.   If you have a personal first name, then let me know and I will address you accordingly.   I just don't want you to think I am being rude for no reason.   I am actually a very friendly person.

I was debating whether I should respond to this or just ignore it and go straight into the main discussion.  But, I just had to respondJust to let you know in advance, this might get nasty, but it is a result of your words.  You asked for it, and you're gonna get it.

Fanatics like you have a deficient methodology of reasoning.  You say one thing, and do another.  You expose the hypocrisy within yourself. 

Case in point: Your little rambling session where you refuse to even address me by the user-name I have chosen shows your self-contradictory nature. 
I must say, you are the first fanatic Christian I have come across who didn't even want to address me by my user-name, and believe me, I have talked to many fanatics! Shocked

You say you are not being rude.  Well, where I come from, this is being rude.  Not that I care either way.  I could care less about your asinine views on Islam.  I could care even less about your crazy apocalyptic vision of a narrow-minded God.  My interest in even addressing your claims is to expose the hypocrisy and self-contradictory nature of you and your ilk, Douggie.


You may call me Douggg or Doug or Doug L.    Do you have a personal name that I can call you by?


Douggg:
Concering Gomer as being South-eastern Europe, from wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam - Islam is the principal religion in the following countries:

  • Albania (majority)
  • Kosovo (majority)
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina (relative/partial majority)
  • Turkey
What about Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary, Macedonia, Romania, Slovenia and Ukraine?  Mostly Christian countries, they are, no? Confused  


Christian countries do not chant "death to Israel".   They have no reason to invade Israel.


Douggg:
The celts, from that link you provided, as distant descendants do not count.


Why not?  Because you say so?  It seems to me that if all those nations are descended from Noah's sons, then descent plays an important role. 


The celts are very distant from Gomer.   If a person wanted to conitinue that line of reasoning, the celts settled in England, and from England, the English
populated America and Australia - but it would irrational to say that America and Australia are Gomer, would it not?


Douggg:
Also, from wilkepedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush - Kingdom of Kush (Cush) , an ancient nation in northeastern Africa comprising large areas within present-day Egypt and Sudan    Egypt and Sudan are Muslim.

The very source you quote says the following:

"Having also been referred to as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubia - Nubia , and as "Ethiopia" in ancient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece - Greek and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman - Greco-Roman records,"

It seems to me that the Biblical authors should have been a little more specific, don't you think?  They referred to vague geographical localities instead of referring to specific locations.  Go figure.


Persia, one of the countries listed, should be pretty easy for you to figure out.


Douggg: Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan will not be involved in Gog/Magog.   The muslims in those countries and elsewhere worldwide will abandon Islam in 
the light of what Christians like me are saying to guys like you, especially for the past 20 years, comes to pass.   And for the same past 20 years, Muslims have denied it.


LOL Wishful thinking Dougggie!  Christians have been fantasying about destroying Islam for 14 centuries.  Not only have they always failed, but Islam has thrived and spread.  InshaAllah, it will always thrive. 


In Ezekiel 38-39, it is God who destroys the Russian and Muslim invaders, not the Christians or Jews.


Douggg: See, you, like all muslims, cannot accept Ezekiel 38 and 39 for what it says.  Because if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are true - then Islam is a false religion.


Well, can you blame me?  I don't normally believe vague nonsense! Big%20smile You on the other hand believe it!  Clap 


Ezekiel 38-39 is nonsense?   It was written 1,000 years before Islam.   It is timed when Israel has returned to the land from being scattered around the world, and in the latter days, Ezekiel 38:8.    So why is that vague?

All you have to do is to consider that it is Islam that wants to destroy Israel.   Is is not rocket science.


Douggg: It is not an historic event.   It happens in the latter days, Ezekiel 38:8,16.  Afterwards, there will be a place called The valley of http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hamon-gog.html - Hamongog , the burial place of Gog's army Ezekiel 39:11.    Which doesn't exist on any current or historic map, proving that the event is still future.

You misunderstood.  Perhaps you should try to read clearly and not let your emotions get the better of your reason.  I was not saying that it was referring to a historical event.  I was saying that other confrontations the Israelites may have had with those same nations in the past may explain why the Jewish sages came up with these end-time scenarios involving those very nations.  It was a way to condemn them for the actions of their ancestors.  Its simple psychology.


Are you admitting that if Ezekiel 38-39 are true, then Islam is a false religion?
It seems to me that why you are trying to discredit the verses.


Douggg: Well, when I argue with Jews (Judaism), I get frustrated at their religious beliefs in their rejection of the gospel.    Nonetheless, Israel is God's chosen nation among the nations of the old human race descended from Adam.  It is not what they are now, but what they will become - Christians, the new human race, in the end, that God defends them in keeping his promises to their forefathers.

 
Perhaps that is why the Biblical Jesus was such a racist!  Calling the gentiles "dogs"!  Shocked  See, my Lord is not a racist.  He loves all nations and wants all nations to follow His laws.  He does not prefer one over another.  This is an invention of heretics of the past.  You and you ilk have betrayed Jesus and worst of all, you have betrayed God.  That is why the Quran says that Jesus will testify against you on the Day of Judgment: 


I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Isalm forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010.


And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.  "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.  "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."   (5:116-118)

You still have time to reverse your blasphemous views on God and Jesus. 


Why would anyone want to become an "antichrist"?


Douggg: Back in the garden of eden, all of the future human race was "in Adam" when he disobeyed and became a "sinner.   Thus, all of the human race descended from Adam are "sinners".    In Jesus, God put the entirety of the human race of sinners past, present, future - and put all of them to death on the cross - "in Jesus".   For that reason, Jesus in the nt is called "the last Adam".    Meaning that all of the human race descended from Adam was put "in him".

Pure nonsense!  Every person is responsible for his/her own sins.  We don't "inherit" sin.  We choose it ourselves.  Ponder on the wisdom of the Quran a bit and open your eyes and ears:


Everyone is responsible for their choices regarding sin, agreed.   But those choices are affected by the sin nature inherited from Adam's flesh, which draws men toward sinning.   


(It will be said to him:) "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee."  Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent a messenger (to give warning). (17:14-15)

Adam and Eve committed a sin.  They were responsible for it, not us.  We are responsible for our own sins.  The nonsense of "original sin" betrays the fairness and justice of God.


But the human race inherited the results of Adam's sin.   We all are Adam's flesh<<<<< do you agree with that sentence?


Douggg: But being so crucified "in Christ", also "in Christ" all are raised a new human race when Jesus came back alive.   Thus, Jesus is called the "second man" in the new testament.   The new human race are saints "in Christ", not sinners, and are called Christians, those who have received the gospel of having been crucified and raised with Jesus.


Perhaps you can answer a question I posed to the Christians here.  I never got a response. 

If Jesus' mission was to die for our sins, why did he not just kill himself?  Or arrange for some accident to occur?  Would that not be the same as being crucified, as long as the result was death?  And what about the ones who killed him (allegedly)?  Are they not the greatest heroes in the world?  I mean, come on, they basically ensured that Jesus' mission would be a success.  If they had not decided to kill him, then he could not die for our sins and therefore none of us would get saved.  So, the people who did kill him are heroes because they allowed for the mission to succeed and ensured that all who believed would go to Heaven.


Because Jesus said in John 12, 

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.


Douggg: Your religion, inspired by Satan, denies both the crucifixion and the resurrection.... because by the death and resurrection, which "in Jesus" we share, men are borne again neither Jew nor Gentile but a new creation, set free from the old human race of sinners.


You're dang right it denies that nonsense.  Satan really worked one on you didn't he?  Persuading you to worship a mere man?  That Satan, what a trickster! 


I worship God, the Alpha and Omega, who came into this world to save me.
 
 
Douggg: Likewise, Satan attempts to destroy Israel to prevent the promises of God made to the Jews from coming true.   Eventually, all of Israel will become saints, i.e Christians.   Open your eyes to the news.   Islam wants Israel destroyed.    Islam wants Christians to deny Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection.     But in Ezekiel 38 and 39, it is Islam, the muslim countries that God chooses to destroy.

Israel was created at the expence of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.  That is why many Muslims are against Israel.  It is a matter of justice.  There are many Jews who also criticize Israel.  There are also many Christians who criticize Zionist Christians such as yourself and your perverted view of God's justice and fairness.  The world doesn't revolve around Israel, Dougggie.  Its much too big. 


Very strange comment you make considering that Israel is in the news everyday.

Zechariah 3:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a brudensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.


Doug L.




Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 1:31am
islamispeace wrote:
=====
Pure nonsense! Every person is responsible for his/her own sins. We don't "inherit" sin. We choose it ourselves. Ponder on the wisdom of the Quran a bit and open your eyes and ears:

(It will be said to him:) "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee." Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent a messenger (to give warning). (17:14-15)

Adam and Eve committed a sin. They were responsible for it, not us. We are responsible for our own sins. The nonsense of "original sin" betrays the fairness and justice of God.
=======

Semar wrote:
I agree 100%, modern law also can not accept "original sin" concept. This is one of many christianity ridiculous concept, no wonder chistianity for centuries struggle so much to make this concept make sense, because it is nonsense. Imagine innocent Michael Jackson's very young children have to pay their father debt.

Dough, do you think it is fair michael Jackson's children have to pay their father debt? Or Bernard Madoff grand children have to go to jail because their grand father can not "pay" in full 150 years jail time.


-------------
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 3:14am
Originally posted by semar

TNC agree 100%, modern law also can not accept "original sin" concept. Imagine innocent Michael Jackson's young children have to pay their father debt.

Dough, do you think it is fair michael Jackson's children to pay their father debt?


Hi semar,

No, I do not think it is fair that MJ's children pay their father's debt.   I think that creditors can sue the estate though.    Even so, I understand the particular principle that you are making.

btw, under the terms of the original Mt. Sinai Covenant, God said (paraphrased) that if the Children of Israel got into idol worship, that He would visit their sin on the third and fourth generation.  Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

As it turned out, Israel did get in to idol worship, and during Ezekiel's time, God kept to His word and the children of the fathers who sinned were suffering accordingly.    So much so, that they began defaming God with a proverb...

Ezekiel 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

What God did in Ezekiel 18 was to change the terms of the Mt. Sinai covenant whereby everyone under the covenant would be judged according to their own sins.    I would suggest that you briefly read through that chapter.   Judaism uses that chapter as part of their basis for eternal life being based upon their works.   However, that is not what the chapter is about.   It is about God's judgment on persons under the Mt. Sinai covenant in this life, as can be seen from these closing verses of Ezekiel 18:

30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Okay, back to us inheriting a sin nature from Adam.   I will agree with you that you and I did not choose to eat from the forbidden tree.   In fact, we aren't even given a choice...right?    But Adam was given a choice and did.   We cannot undo what Adam chose.     We are stuck with the results, nonetheless. 

Resulting from choosing to eat from the forbidden tree, Adam's nature changed.   "the man is become" as one of us, to know good and evil.   Genesis 3:

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Now you say that we are each responsible for our own sin.  However, in the case of Adam, all of future humanity was "in him".    You and I are not allowed to enter the garden of eden....even though you and I didn't commit the sin of eating from the forbidden tree... but we are blocked because of Adam's sin.

So in that way, see how Adam's sin has impacted us?   Not only are you and I blocked from the garden of eden, but we inherit Adam's changed nature as well.   As a result, we do both good and evil (sin).

What I would like to ask you is this.... where did you get your body?   Adam's body was formed directly from the dust of the earth.   But our bodies are not.... because they are Adam's body, his flesh, extended down generation to generation through the process of procreation.   Our flesh is not like Adam's flesh... it is Adam's flesh!

All of humanity was "in Adam", and we inherited his "changed" nature, evident from Genesis 3:22 above, to know good and evil.   I agree with you that you and I are responsible for the acts of sins we commit.     But we inherit a "sin nature", not out of choice, but by being born into the human race descended from Adam.

The term "original sin" is somewhat misleading.   It should be the "sin nature" that we inherit which is a result of Adam eating from the forbidden tree.

If our flesh is Adam's flesh, then what about our soul?    Our souls, we do not inherit from Adam, our souls are each individually created.... and joined to Adam's flesh in the womb or at birth (as there are various opinions).    Nonetheless, when our pure soul created in the image of God is joined to Adam's flesh which the sin nature resides - the soul becomes defiled.  Unfortunately that is the power of sin.  And that is why both body and soul must be redeemed.

God's way to redeem us, is to recreate us body and soul, by putting us to death "in Jesus" on the cross, and resurrecting us "in Jesus" in his resurrection - as a new creation.

Christians experience our souls being redeemed by accepting God's recreation by way of the cross and resurrection to the new life. 

It is the promised new bodies, not of Adam's flesh, but of supernatural substance, that Christians await and look forward to, which redeems our current mortal bodies replaced with supnatural incorruptible bodies to join with our "already" redeemed spotless souls. 

One of the signs that Christians know for certain that the redemption of our bodies is at hand, is the nearness of the prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and 39 to be fulfilled.    Muslims of course deny that Ezekiel 38 could be talking about themShocked.

Jews, have their own take, and see Ezekiel 38 and 39 as a clash between western Christianity (edom in their view) and the Muslim nations, and in the aftermath their moshiach will arrive.  Yes, many of the Jews believe that.    Which, as far as their (Judaism's) moshiach, I believe as well, but their messiah will turn out to be the Antichrist, something that they are not counting on.

Doug L.



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 3:26pm
Douggg: "You may call me Douggg or Doug or Doug L."

Oh, but I wanted to call you Dougggie!  Unhappy 

Douggg: "
Do you have a personal name that I can call you by?"

How about Mr. X?  If not that, then any of these:

islamispeace, islamisthetruth, islamforever

Douggg: "
Christian countries do not chant "death to Israel".   They have no reason to invade Israel."

Yeah, because they have no interest in defending the Palestinians.  They don't care about the Palestinians. 

The point is that the purported prophecy is vague.  Gomer can apply to so many nations, because it is a vague term for South-east Europe.  How different are these prophecies from the vague ramblings of Nostradamus?

Douggg: "
The celts are very distant from Gomer.   If a person wanted to conitinue that line of reasoning, the celts settled in England, and from England, the English
populated America and Australia - but it would irrational to say that America and Australia are Gomer, would it not?"


Why not?  Its all about where they descended from.  If they have some good old Gomer blood in them, then as far as the prophecy is concerned, they should play a role.  The point is once again, the prophecy is vague and can be interpreted in many ways.  Go figure.

Douggg: "
Persia, one of the countries listed, should be pretty easy for you to figure out."


That still doesn't solve the vagueness of the other nations, does it?  Cush could be Ethiopia or Sudan.  The point is the prophecy does not specify.  Go figure.

Douggg: "In Ezekiel 38-39, it is God who destroys the Russian and Muslim invaders, not the Christians or Jews."

But, it is the Christians who interpret it that way, and that is directly a result of their centuries long hatred of Islam.  They have always fantasized about seeing Islam being destroyed.  Like I said before, you have betrayed God, so you have no right to speak on His behalf.

Douggg: "Ezekiel 38-39 is nonsense?   It was written 1,000 years before Islam.   It is timed when Israel has returned to the land from being scattered around the world, and in the latter days, Ezekiel 38:8.    So why is that vague?"

Hello?  See above.

Douggg: "All you have to do is to consider that it is Islam that wants to destroy Israel.   Is is not rocket science."

Because Israel first stole the land from the Palestinians and now continues to oppress them.  Since the Palestinians are mostly Muslim, it is no surprise that the Muslim world is highly critical of Israel and that some elements within want Israel destroyed.  But it is not only Muslims who believe this.  There are many Jews who believe Israel should not exist.  There are many Christians who are critical of Israel's policies against the Palestinians and also critical of Zionist Christians who blindly support Israel so that their apocalyptic fantasies can be "fulfilled".  Its almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Douggg: "Are you admitting that if Ezekiel 38-39 are true, then Islam is a false religion?  It seems to me that why you are trying to discredit the verses. "

No.  If your particular interpretation is correct (which I don't believe), and that is how it will happen, of course, it would mean that Islam is a false religion.  Of course, I don't believe it will play out that way.  Like I said, God is just and fair.  Your version of Him betrays His eternal justice. 

From the point of view of Islam, it is Christianity which will be proven to be a false religion.  The Islamic sources foretell Jesus' return and how he will abolish Christianity.  Would you admit that if those sources are true, then Christianity is a false religion?


Douggg: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Isalm forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

LOL When will you fanatics learn?  You clowns have been predicting the end times for centuries and are always proven wrong in the end.  Can you recall learning about  the "great disappointment" in your history class?  Take some lessons from that.  Even the Biblical Jesus did not know when all these events would play out, if at all.

I also noticed how you ignored how I proved that the Biblical version of God is a racist.  That is one of the many proofs that much of the Bible is not from God.  Some is, but a lot of it is not.  The God of Islam is not a racist. 

Douggg: "Why would anyone want to become an "antichrist"?"

I sure wouldn't!  But, you seem to like it! Wink

Douggg: "Everyone is responsible for their choices regarding sin, agreed.   But those choices are affected by the sin nature inherited from Adam's flesh, which draws men toward sinning."

No.  The choices are affected by the fact that we have the freedom to choose.  Its called free-will, Dougggie!  Sin is not a genetic problem! 

Douggg: "But the human race inherited the results of Adam's sin.   We all are Adam's flesh<<<<< do you agree with that sentence?"

Nonsense!  We sprang forth from Adam's loins. 

Douggg: "Because Jesus said in John 12, 

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die."

You didn't answer my questions!  Try again please.  Let me separate the questions for you:

1.  If Jesus' mission was to die for our sins, why did he not just kill himself?

2. Or arrange for some accident to occur? 

3. Would that not be the same as being crucified, as long as the result was death?

4. And what about the ones who killed him (allegedly)?  Are they not the greatest heroes in the world?  I mean, come on, they basically ensured that Jesus' mission would be a success.  If they had not decided to kill him, then he could not die for our sins and therefore none of us would get saved.  So, the people who did kill him are heroes because they allowed for the mission to succeed and ensured that all who believed would go to Heaven.

Douggg: "I worship God, the Alpha and Omega, who came into this world to save me."

Yeah, the same guy who prayed (...to someone!), was tempted by the devil, went to the bathroom and didn't know when the end would come!  Some "god".

Douggg: "ery strange comment you make considering that Israel is in the news everyday.

Zechariah 3:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a brudensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

So is Michael Jackson!  What does that mean? LOL 

Israel is in the news because of the ongoing Palestinian-Israeli conflict.  That is the source of all the problems and the tension between it and the Islamic world, which is concerned about the plight of the Palestinians.  Its also political.  But, we Muslims are also watching Chechnya, Kashmir, Iraq, Afghanistan and now China.  Why?  Because our brothers and sisters are suffering at the hands of opressors, many of which are Christian. 


 




-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:08pm
salaam
douggggg:
 
 tell me this, which of the following best discribes christians?also which of the following " would be given" a place in the temple? surly not #1 . a "non jew" would never have a place in the temple. maybe # 3 wait mormons weren't around then. ok how about #4 would the heathens be "given" a place in the temple no i don't think so. the only ones below who have been "GIVEN" a place in the temple are#2 the christians.
 
gen·tile [ jén tl ]

noun (plural gen·tiles)
Definition:
1. non-Jewish person: somebody who is not Jewish

2. somebody Christian: a Christian, as distinguished from somebody who is Jewish

3. non-Mormon: in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, somebody who is not a member of this Church

4. heathen: a disbeliever in God ( disapproving )
 
so with that understood it's quit clear who the below is refering to:
 
Revelation 11
1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there.
2But exclude the outer court; ,do not measure it because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

going by the definition above it seems the above verses are impling that the christians , "who are the gentile followers of jesus " are the ones this outer court has been given. but then would be dinied or exclude at the end.

why would god exclude the gentile followers who this outer court has been given?............. false worship!!!  
 what would be this "false" worship? THE OUTER COURT is a clue.
 
 what took place there? any idea?
  i know what took place in the outer court.  this was the place of the  "SACRIFICE OF ATONEMENT"
  This is where someone would PASS THIER SINS ONTO AN ANIMAL THEN KILL THE ANIMAL . THIER SINS WOULD DIE WITH THE ANIMAL THUS CLEANSING THEMSELVES OF THIER SINS WITH THE BLOOD OF ANOTHER. THE SAME THING CHRISTIANS DO WITH JESUS. WHY????
did not jesus say on the cross " FORGIVE THEM THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!"
 BUT IT SEEMS THE CHRISTIANS CLAIM " YES WE DO! PASS ME THAT HAMMER AND SOME NAILS." why do you claim this? you slap jesus in the face and contridict his very statement.
 
also Ezekiel 38. at the time of ezekiel islam, muslims did not exsist. the countries in question were pagan at this time.
 so i guess you could say god did distroy these countries. and replaced them with islam and gods word.
 
also please go to a library and read a good book on human history, and also the Qu'ran.
when you do you'll find who realy persecuted the jews.
1] after the " church" came to power it was the christians who banished the jews from thier homeland and distroyed thier places of worship.
2] it was the christians who practiced geniside on the jews in spain and france.
 
now on the other hand:
 
1] it was the muslims who protected and invited the jews 
back after they ended christian rule. oh yes they also invited the christians back too.
 the muslims REBUILT synogogs for the jews along with christian churches.
2] during the time of the inqusitions it was the muslims who gave the jews in spain shelter and protection from the evil of the church.
 and after the church was though with the inquisitions it started " THE BURNING TIMES" .
 any WOMAN who could "think freely"was burned as witches.
 
READ THE QU'AN
if you do you'll find it is stated that the isrealites have the right to what was promissed them. { a place to live in peace and safety which the muslims provided.}
please note that a jew is an isrealite . but an isrealite is not always a "jew".
 
also you stated islam must be in the "REVELATION" I AGREE!
 
 

Matthew 21:43 (King James Version)

 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

 John 4:21 

 21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

  Revelation 3:12 (King James Version)

 12Him that overcometh{ Muhammad} will I  make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out{this means he will not return thus not jesus}: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem{ MECCA }, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. { ALLAH }.

YOU SEE THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS IS NOT THE ONE THAT COMES IN HIS NAME. BUT GODS......... IN THE NAME OF ALLAH!!!

also this
BELOW SPEAKS OF MUHAMMAD AND THE MUSLIMS
 there once was an army in recorded history that went into battle dessed in pure white linen. THE MUSLIM ARMY during the " GOLDEN AGE OF ISLAM ".
 
Revelation 19:11-19 (New International Version)

The Rider on the White Horse
 11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.  {a name unknown to history} 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. {THIS  IS MUHAMMAD}     14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.{ THE MUSLAIM ARMY }     15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.{ THE QU'RAN } "He will rule them with an iron scepter[meaning the everlasting good news]." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
      
 KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. {THIS MEANS " IN THE NAME OF GOD"AS IN TIMOTHY 6:15 "God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords".} 
 
 17And I saw an angel st anding in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

 19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.

we also see that there is a contradiction here. in verse 12 it states "He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself." and yet in verse 16 the "name" written on him is now clear and understandable{ now meaning jesus}. something was lost here the "church" did not want people to know. 
 
also jesus states in his own words "I HAVE NOT COME TO JUDGE THE WORLD BUT TO SAVE IT" so much for verse 11.
jesus's return will take place after the above takes place
 
but these are old pasted posts i'm sure you read by now.
 i'll leave to you your reponse.
leland
 
 
 


-------------
love for all conquers all


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:54pm

salaams

also note dougggg:my reply on page 3 please.
IN THE BIBLE GOD never, ever makes a covenent with "THE GENTILE NATION"

Matthew 21:43 (King James Version)

 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof

there are only two nations in the bible god himself has deemed as GREAT ,that of ISHMAEL and of ISAAC.
 
the covenent with isaac is over dead!
 
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=8&verse=13&version=31&context=verse - Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
4:155 (Y. Ali) (They have incurred divine displeasure): In that they broke their covenant
; that they rejected the signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said, "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word; we need no more)";- Nay, Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy, and little is it they believe;-
 
8:56 (Y. Ali) They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah..
 
9:77 (Y. Ali) So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts, (to last) till the Day, whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah, and because they lied (again and again).
 
 5:14 (Y. Ali) From those, too, who call themselves christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.


-------------
love for all conquers all


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by islamispeace


Douggg: "Are you admitting that if Ezekiel 38-39 are true, then Islam is a false religion?  It seems to me that why you are trying to discredit the verses. "

No.  If your particular interpretation is correct (which I don't believe), and that is how it will happen, of course, it would mean that Islam is a false religion.  Of course, I don't believe it will play out that way.  Like I said, God is just and fair.  Your version of Him betrays His eternal justice. 

From the point of view of Islam, it is Christianity which will be proven to be a false religion.  The Islamic sources foretell Jesus' return and how he will abolish Christianity.  Would you admit that if those sources are true, then Christianity is a false religion?


Hi Mr X,  We can agree that Christianity and Islam are incompatible, one or the other is true, but not both.

The reason I can not respond to your proposal.... "The Islamic sources foretell Jesus' return and how he will abolish Christianity.  Would you admit that if those sources are true, then Christianity is a false religion?"....is because it is not a common text to both faiths.     Regarding Ezekiel 38 and 39, I am assuming that Muslims consider the text valid - although they would not agree with my interpretation.   So Ezekiel 38 and 39 would be common text to both religions.   Is that a correct assumption that I am making?

Douggg: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Isalm forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

LOL When will you fanatics learn?  You clowns have been predicting the end times for centuries and are always proven wrong in the end.  Can you recall learning about  the "great disappointment" in your history class?  Take some lessons from that.  Even the Biblical Jesus did not know when all these events would play out, if at all.


Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.


I also noticed how you ignored how I proved that the Biblical version of God is a racist.  That is one of the many proofs that much of the Bible is not from God.  Some is, but a lot of it is not.  The God of Islam is not a racist.


I didn't think it was worthy of a response.   Recall what Jesus said of the Roman officer who sought Jesus's help in healing his servant?



Douggg: "Why would anyone want to become an "antichrist"?"

I sure wouldn't!  But, you seem to like it! Wink


An antichrist is someone who denies the Father and Son.   Islam is very much antichrist, and exhibits the spirit of Antichrist.   Many Christians think that the Muslim Mahdi will be the Antichrist.  However, I do not.  I just don't think that the Muslim end times prophecies will play out. 

Douggg: "Everyone is responsible for their choices regarding sin, agreed.   But those choices are affected by the sin nature inherited from Adam's flesh, which draws men toward sinning."

No.  The choices are affected by the fact that we have the freedom to choose.  Its called free-will, Dougggie!  Sin is not a genetic problem!


Oh yeah, sure, that's why your body is not going to grow old and die.  I don't know how the sin nature is contained in Adam's flesh - just that it is.

Douggg: "But the human race inherited the results of Adam's sin.   We all are Adam's flesh<<<<< do you agree with that sentence?"

Nonsense!  We sprang forth from Adam's loins.


LOL   What do you think that means?   God does not create each of our bodies from scratch like He did with Adam.   We are Adam's flesh, continued down through time.    


I did answer your question, but you did not like it.  The reason Jesus was crucified was to draw all men to him.  Jesus himself said so.   He also said, in John 3....

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

A person must be familiar with the episode of the brazen serpent in the Tanach to understand the significance, as to why God chose the way of the cross as the means of Jesus's death.

That is a silly waste of my time argument.

I would say that Islam is the source of all the problems in the middle east.

Once Islam is destroyed, the rest of the world will rejoice.  

btw, I don't think the borne again Christians will be around to see Islam destroyed upon the mountains and valleys in Israel because of the rapture.   Of course if the borne-again Christians were raptured out of this world, that might give the Muslim countries the green light to attack Israel, since the U.S. 's support of Israel comes primarily from the borne-again Christians.

Doug L.




Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 3:27pm
Doug said: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Islam forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

Doug said: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.
 
Semar said: LOL Wow, this is very interesting statement. This fall or the fall of of 2010, that's very-very close. Let see what will happen. Most of this forum members insha Allah still alive to prove and witness what Dough said.
 
That I am sure that will happen on that time, insha Allah (God's will) Obama will pull US's troop from Iraq, not anti Christ or Gog/Magog appearance.
 
If Doug were correct, on 2012 US election, maybe the anti Christ will be US's president candidate, and he will win.. the question is he will joint with democrat or republican...LOL
Sad for Obama, he only have a change for 1 term, and will be the only US's president who has dark skin in the history of human kind...LOL


-------------
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 7:59pm
Douggg: Hi Mr X,

I changed my mind.  You may call me islamispeace!  Tongue

Douggg: Regarding Ezekiel 38 and 39, I am assuming that Muslims consider the text valid - although they would not agree with my interpretation.   So Ezekiel 38 and 39 would be common text to both religions.   Is that a correct assumption that I am making?

Not at all.  Islam's position on the previous texts is clear: they were corrupted by human hands.  So, if we even have to determine what is truth and what is false, we would judge it by the Quran and Sunnah.

Douggg: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.

LOLStop!  My sides are bursting from laughing so hard! 

Christians have been making these calculations for 2,000 years and they have always been wrong!  Silly Dougggie, what makes you think you have the keys to the future?  If Jesus did not eve know when the end would come, what makes you think you can predict the future?  We will see in 2010 or 2011 (now you are not so sure, huh?) whether your little "prophecy" comes true.  Of course, when it does not, and inshaAllah it will not, we will no doubt see you trying to do damage control much like William Miller in 1844, when Jesus missed his heavenly flight and failed to show up. 

Douggg:
I didn't think it was worthy of a response.  


Well, of course you didn't!  Anything you don't have an answer to is not worthy of a response!

Douggg: Recall what Jesus said of the Roman officer who sought Jesus's help in healing his servant?


Ugh.  Something stinks here!  Oh, I know.  It's the red herring you just dropped.  What Jesus may have said to the Roman does not change what he may have said to the woman he referred to as a dog just because she was a gentile.  Or was Jesus reneging on his racist attitudes?  Did he reform?

Douggg:
An antichrist is someone who denies the Father and Son.

Wrong again, Dougggie!  An antichrist is someone who pretends to be something they are not.  Its another word for an impostor (dajjal in Arabic).  Its someone who claims to speak for the Messiah, or in his name, or claims to be the Messiah but in fact is just a liar.  The true Messiah never claimed divinity.  So therefore, those who claim he did are antichrists.  Paul was an antichrist in that way. 

Douggg:
Islam is very much antichrist, and exhibits the spirit of Antichrist.   Many Christians think that the Muslim Mahdi will be the Antichrist.  However, I do not.  I just don't think that the Muslim end times prophecies will play out.


Nope.  It exhibits the spirit of everything that is Godly and just.  It exhibits the spirit of tawhid and iman, like Jesus, like Moses, like Abraham and of course like Muhammad (may peace be upon them all).

Douggg: Oh yeah, sure, that's why your body is not going to grow old and die.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? 

Douggg: I don't know how the sin nature is contained in Adam's flesh - just that it is.

Very convenient. 

Douggg: LOL   What do you think that means?   God does not create each of our bodies from scratch like He did with Adam.   We are Adam's flesh, continued down through time. 

Adam was an individual.  So am I and so are you.  The actions he committed were his own, not ours.  We may be related by blood, but that does not mean that just because he sinned, somehow sin permeated all of us.  That is just absurd.  Sin is not some physical force.  It is simply a word to represent evil deeds, bad actions.  That's all.  It is not present in your genes.  The color of your eyes, your hair and your skin is what is present in your genes.  Even despite these differences, because we all come from Adam, Islam says that we are all one and the same, regardless of gender, race or ethnicity.  The only difference is that we are all individuals, born with a clean slate and capable of making our own choices.

Douggg: I did answer your question, but you did not like it.  The reason Jesus was crucified was to draw all men to him.  Jesus himself said so.   He also said, in John 3....

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

A person must be familiar with the episode of the brazen serpent in the Tanach to understand the significance, as to why God chose the way of the cross as the means of Jesus's death.

This is absurd!  Was crucifixion the only way to "draw all men to him"?  Wouldn't being eaten by lions have the same effect?  Or simply bashing himself on the head several times in front of a large crowd?  And since when did the whole world at the time witness his death? 

Douggg: That is a silly waste of my time argument.

No, its something you don't have an answer to!  Wink

Jesus' entire mission rested on the people who condemned him and wanted to kill him.  That means the Pharisees, the Romans, all of them, ensured that his mission to die for all of us, including the Pharisees and Romans themselves, would succeed.  Therefore, they should be considered heroes since their actions saved us all.  This is air-tight logic, which you simply cannot refute and so claim that it "is a silly waste of my time".

Douggg: I would say that Islam is the source of all the problems in the middle east.

Once Islam is destroyed, the rest of the world will rejoice. 

No, its clowns like you who are the problem.  Your self-righteousness has caused tremendous suffering in the world.  Christianity is responsible for more atrocities than any other religion/ideology/movement in the world.  It has betrayed Jesus and it has betrayed God.

Douggg: btw, I don't think the borne again Christians will be around to see Islam destroyed upon the mountains and valleys in Israel because of the rapture.   Of course if the borne-again Christians were raptured out of this world, that might give the Muslim countries the green light to attack Israel, since the U.S. 's support of Israel comes primarily from the borne-again Christians.


Make sure you don't miss your heavenly taxi!  Boy, will you look silly if you do! Embarrassed

This reminds of a Simpsons episode.  Homer thinks the rapture is coming.  So he goes on the streets to warn people.  "God loves you," he proclaimed.  "He's gonna kill you!"  I laughed so hard.  I am laughing right now just thinking about it.  LOL 

When your "little disappointment" comes to pass, and believe me it will inshaAllah, I think you will feel even sillier than the Millerites.  It's in those times when you must realize the error of your ways and come to the true path.  You can do it, Dougggie!  I believe in you!




-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:36am

btw, I don't think the borne again Christians will be around to see Islam destroyed upon the mountains and valleys in Israel because of the rapture.   Of course if the borne-again Christians were raptured out of this world, that might give the Muslim countries the green light to attack Israel, since the U.S. 's support of Israel comes primarily from the borne-again Christians.

I'm starting to think the rapture is gonna be a good event....... the time war mongering loonies get busted out of this world we can hope for some peace.
 


-------------
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: Regarding Ezekiel 38 and 39, I am assuming that Muslims consider the text valid - although they would not agree with my interpretation.   So Ezekiel 38 and 39 would be common text to both religions.   Is that a correct assumption that I am making?

Not at all.  Islam's position on the previous texts is clear: they were corrupted by human hands.  So, if we even have to determine what is truth and what is false, we would judge it by the Quran and Sunnah.


So what specifically are you saying is corrupted in the KJV Ezekiel 38 and 39?


Douggg: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.

Christians have been making these calculations for 2,000 years and they have always been wrong!  Silly Dougggie, what makes you think you have the keys to the future?  If Jesus did not eve know when the end would come, what makes you think you can predict the future?  We will see in 2010 or 2011 (now you are not so sure, huh?) whether your little "prophecy" comes true.  Of course, when it does not, and inshaAllah it will not, we will no doubt see you trying to do damage control much like William Miller in 1844, when Jesus missed his heavenly flight and failed to show up. 


X, I don't disagree with you that historically there have been many who placed Jesus's coming at different dates - but none of those are based up "after the fact" of Israel having become a nation again, before 1948.
  So, you won't find anyone from before 1948 making calculations based on the fact that Israel had actually become a nation again.  

Douggg: Oh yeah, sure, that's why your body is not going to grow old and die.

What on earth does that have to do with anything?


It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you committed a single sin. 


Adam was an individual.  So am I and so are you.  The actions he committed were his own, not ours.  We may be related by blood, but that does not mean that just because he sinned, somehow sin permeated all of us.  That is just absurd.  Sin is not some physical force. 


Sin affects the physical as well as the spiritual.   Sin entered the world when Adam disobeyed.   It affected the animals as well.   So they die.  

You and I are related to Adam more that just by blood.  Our bodies are his actual flesh.


The decision on how Jesus would die was God's decision.  Why are you so against the way that God chose?

Jesus himself informed the disciples ahead of time how he would die.  That Jesus was crucified meant that his death was witnessed by all.    John the baptist at the beginning of Jesus's public minsitry, proclaimed Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world".    Jesus's death on the cross coincided with passover sacrifice of the lambs.   During the passover coming out of Egypt, death passed over those who's dwelling was marked by the blood. 

There are Christian crosses displayed all over the world.   Who doesn't know what those crosses symbolize?    And who died upon it.

Who is it that would benefit from the lie that Jesus did not die on the cross?    Satan, of course.   Stop and think.   Mohamed did not receive a vision from Gabriel, but from Satan.    Satan wants to keep those crosses from being seen.

Satan also wants to denigrate the cross, by people wearing it soley for the purpose of jewelry.

Satan's method of operation to destroy men's souls, by the power of sin, was ended by Jesus's death on the cross and His resurrection.

Who benefit's from Jesus's death and resurrection?  The human race.    The entire human race was redeemed because of the unmerited gift of God.   The only requirement is a person believe it and receive it.

Doug L.



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by semar

Doug said: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Islam forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

Doug said: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.
 
Semar said: LOL Wow, this is very interesting statement. This fall or the fall of of 2010, that's very-very close. Let see what will happen. Most of this forum members insha Allah still alive to prove and witness what Dough said.
 
That I am sure that will happen on that time, insha Allah (God's will) Obama will pull US's troop from Iraq, not anti Christ or Gog/Magog appearance.
 
If Doug were correct, on 2012 US election, maybe the anti Christ will be US's president candidate, and he will win.. the question is he will joint with democrat or republican...LOL
Sad for Obama, he only have a change for 1 term, and will be the only US's president who has dark skin in the history of human kind...LOL


Hi Semar, I don't know who the Antichrist is.   But I am confident that he will not be an US president or come from America.  

If you talk to Jews, they interpret the new covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as a "renewal" of the Mt Sinai covenant....not the gospel message, which they reject.   

If one reads in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come,from the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans, "confirms" the covenant with many for seven years.   The covenant that he "confirms" will almost certainly be the Mt. Sinai covenant.... for two reasons.   1. That the Antichrist will be unwittingly embraced by the Jews as their messiah.   And when he "confirms" the covenant, that will fit in with their expectation of the new covenant being "a renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant.   2.  The Mt Sinai covenant was the basis for all of the animal sacrifices.   In the midst of the seven years, the Antichrist will stop those animal sacrifices.

So there is going to be a temple rebuilt on the temple mount, in spite of Islam being dead set against it.   But if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are fulfilled as I believe it will happen, Islam will be destroyed, and the current Muslim impediment to the rebuilding of the temple will be taken out of the way.

That Jerusalem is in the news every day and it status is so difficult for resolution, is what God said he would do.   Those prophecies are found in the Tanach.  Jerusalem is found all through the Bible, 669 of them are in the Tanach, and 154 times in the New Testament.   How many times does Mohamed mention Jerusalem in the Quran?

Doug L.


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Saladin

btw, I don't think the borne again Christians will be around to see Islam destroyed upon the mountains and valleys in Israel because of the rapture.   Of course if the borne-again Christians were raptured out of this world, that might give the Muslim countries the green light to attack Israel, since the U.S. 's support of Israel comes primarily from the borne-again Christians.

I'm starting to think the rapture is gonna be a good event....... the time war mongering loonies get busted out of this world we can hope for some peace.
 
salaam
to bro SaladinWink
   please let me add this. the TERM RAPTURE AND THE EVENT IT DISCRIBES does not appear once in the bible.
   The term RAPTURE from what i heard first appeared in the early 1800s . it came from a dream that a 16 yr. old girl had. she told her pastor of it.  in the dream she saw the souls of the dead rising from their graves. the pastor coined the term RAPTURE to go along with the story in his sermons.
    the term RAPTURE was later used 1870s-80s by a life long criminal { bigamist,larsenist, embezaler}. who as his final act to get rich started to anodate bibles in the margin and sell them. he used the term RAPTURE  and the dream to fill in the "missing pieces" .
    YET ANOTHER EVIL AND CONJECTURE EMBRASED BY THE CHURCH AS FACT!
love
leland
 


-------------
love for all conquers all


Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by semar

Doug said: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Islam forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

Doug said: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.
 
Semar said: LOL Wow, this is very interesting statement. This fall or the fall of of 2010, that's very-very close. Let see what will happen. Most of this forum members insha Allah still alive to prove and witness what Dough said.
 
That I am sure that will happen on that time, insha Allah (God's will) Obama will pull US's troop from Iraq, not anti Christ or Gog/Magog appearance.
 
If Doug were correct, on 2012 US election, maybe the anti Christ will be US's president candidate, and he will win.. the question is he will joint with democrat or republican...LOL
Sad for Obama, he only have a change for 1 term, and will be the only US's president who has dark skin in the history of human kind...LOL


Hi Semar, I don't know who the Antichrist is.   But I am confident that he will not be an US president or come from America.  

If you talk to Jews, they interpret the new covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as a "renewal" of the Mt Sinai covenant....not the gospel message, which they reject.   

If one reads in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come,from the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans, "confirms" the covenant with many for seven years.   The covenant that he "confirms" will almost certainly be the Mt. Sinai covenant.... for two reasons.   1. That the Antichrist will be unwittingly embraced by the Jews as their messiah.   And when he "confirms" the covenant, that will fit in with their expectation of the new covenant being "a renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant.   2.  The Mt Sinai covenant was the basis for all of the animal sacrifices.   In the midst of the seven years, the Antichrist will stop those animal sacrifices.

So there is going to be a temple rebuilt on the temple mount, in spite of Islam being dead set against it.   But if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are fulfilled as I believe it will happen, Islam will be destroyed, and the current Muslim impediment to the rebuilding of the temple will be taken out of the way.

That Jerusalem is in the news every day and it status is so difficult for resolution, is what God said he would do.   Those prophecies are found in the Tanach.  Jerusalem is found all through the Bible, 669 of them are in the Tanach, and 154 times in the New Testament.   How many times does Mohamed mention Jerusalem in the Quran?

Doug L.
 
OK Doug, let see in this fall, or the next fall, it's not very far. Hopefully you are still in this forum you might want to coordinate "breaking news" for this forum about the coming of the AntiChrist. Even you might want to ask him to join to this forum. LOL By the way in your undestanding the antiChrist will have one eye or 2 eyes.


-------------
Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:45pm
Douggg: So what specifically are you saying is corrupted in the KJV Ezekiel 38 and 39?

Well for one thing, this obsession with Israel being the virtual center of everything.  Its all about Israel and the Jews and to hell with everybody else.  This is not what I would expect from a God who is just and fair; this preference for one race over all others, as if they are superior in some way. 

Douggg: X, I don't disagree with you that historically there have been many who placed Jesus's coming at different dates - but none of those are based up "after the fact" of Israel having become a nation again, before 1948.  So, you won't find anyone from before 1948 making calculations based on the fact that Israel had actually become a nation again. 

You may call me islamispeace, please. 

So, you have all the answers, huh?  Why didn't those people try to calculate when Israel would become a nation again, first?  Especially, if it was so central to the end times prophecies? 

Douggg:
It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you committed a single sin. 


More nonsense.  I was born with a clean slate, innocent and pure.  So were you.  So was Adam.  I became a sinner only through my own actions.  So did you.  So did Adam.

What happens when a baby dies in infancy?  How can it be saved?  After all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of the majesty of God!)?

Douggg:  Sin affects the physical as well as the spiritual.   Sin entered the world when Adam disobeyed.

This is absurd!  Like I said, sin is not some physical entity you can touch and hold.  If I were to steal, that would be sin, but it does not affect me physically.  Its not like I get a tumor from stealing.

Douggg: It affected the animals as well.   So they die.

Oh for the love of...I have heard some real nonsense, but the nonsense coming from you is beyond anything else.  What do the animals have to do with all this? 

Are you saying plants die also because of the sin of Adam?  Confused

Douggg: You and I are related to Adam more that just by blood.  Our bodies are his actual flesh.

Even if this was somehow true, its not like sin infected him like a disease, like AIDS.  His sin was his own. 

Douggg:  The decision on how Jesus would die was God's decision.  Why are you so against the way that God chose?


I am not against God's will.  I am against the will of those who would try to subvert his will!  People like you! Wink

In other words, you have no idea on how to answer my question.

Douggg: Jesus himself informed the disciples ahead of time how he would die.  That Jesus was crucified meant that his death was witnessed by all.    John the baptist at the beginning of Jesus's public minsitry, proclaimed Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world".    Jesus's death on the cross coincided with passover sacrifice of the lambs.   During the passover coming out of Egypt, death passed over those who's dwelling was marked by the blood.

All of this is irrelevant.  I already know all this.  LOL What I want to know is the logic behind it, if any.

Douggg: There are Christian crosses displayed all over the world.   Who doesn't know what those crosses symbolize?    And who died upon it.

He could have simply been crushed by a rock, and then that rock would become the symbol of Christianity.  Do you see the point I am making?  It's not "rocket science", Dougggie!

You still have not answered my other questions!  I am just going to keep bringing them up until you do:

Jesus' entire mission rested on the people who condemned him and wanted to kill him.  That means the Pharisees, the Romans, all of them, ensured that his mission to die for all of us, including the Pharisees and Romans themselves, would succeed.  Therefore, they should be considered heroes since their actions saved us all.  This is air-tight logic, which you simply cannot refute and so claim that it "is a silly waste of my time".

At least try and refute this, Dougggie.  Surely, your 40 some-odd years of studying the Bible should bring some answers.

Douggg: Who is it that would benefit from the lie that Jesus did not die on the cross?    Satan, of course.   Stop and think.   Mohamed did not receive a vision from Gabriel, but from Satan.    Satan wants to keep those crosses from being seen.


Nice.  Now you are dropping non-sequiturs.  And these stinks just as worse as the red herrings! 

Who benefited from the fact that Jesus was saved?  Jesus himself for one.  Also, the believers.  It was proof to them of God's awesome might and power.  He left the unbelievers impotent and helpless. 

Now, who benefits from the lie that Jesus died for our sins?  No one really.  Satan certainly benefited since he was able to get billions of people to worship a mere man because of some myth that his death ensures that we get "saved".

Douggg: Who benefit's from Jesus's death and resurrection?  The human race.    The entire human race was redeemed because of the unmerited gift of God.   The only requirement is a person believe it and receive it.

No one benefits if it actually happened.  All that would have happened is that the blood of an innocent man was spilled.  But alhamdulillah, it did not happen!  Allah's power triumphed over Satan and his cronies. 


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by semar

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by semar

Doug said: "I have given you tangible proof that Islam is a false religion by God's judgment against Islam forth coming when Ezekiel 38-39 takes place.    Which will be most likely either this fall or the fall of 2010."

Doug said: Jesus gave prophecy after prophecy plus Revelation to John.   He also gave the parable of the fig tree.   Applying the understanding of that parable... May 14, 1948+70 years = May 14, 2018, not later than.    Not later than May 14,2018,
 Jesus will return to this earth.    Subtracting 7 years for the tribulation period under the Antichrist, May 14, 2018 - 7 = May 14, 2011.   No later than May 14, 2011, the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant with the Jews.   Just before then - whatever date it turns out to be - Gog/Magog will take place.
Meaning that Gog/Magog will take place not later than May 14, 2011.
 
Semar said: LOL Wow, this is very interesting statement. This fall or the fall of of 2010, that's very-very close. Let see what will happen. Most of this forum members insha Allah still alive to prove and witness what Dough said.
 
That I am sure that will happen on that time, insha Allah (God's will) Obama will pull US's troop from Iraq, not anti Christ or Gog/Magog appearance.
 
If Doug were correct, on 2012 US election, maybe the anti Christ will be US's president candidate, and he will win.. the question is he will joint with democrat or republican...LOL
Sad for Obama, he only have a change for 1 term, and will be the only US's president who has dark skin in the history of human kind...LOL


Hi Semar, I don't know who the Antichrist is.   But I am confident that he will not be an US president or come from America.  

If you talk to Jews, they interpret the new covenant prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as a "renewal" of the Mt Sinai covenant....not the gospel message, which they reject.   

If one reads in Daniel 9:26-27, the prince who shall come,from the people who destroyed the temple and city, the Romans, "confirms" the covenant with many for seven years.   The covenant that he "confirms" will almost certainly be the Mt. Sinai covenant.... for two reasons.   1. That the Antichrist will be unwittingly embraced by the Jews as their messiah.   And when he "confirms" the covenant, that will fit in with their expectation of the new covenant being "a renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant.   2.  The Mt Sinai covenant was the basis for all of the animal sacrifices.   In the midst of the seven years, the Antichrist will stop those animal sacrifices.

So there is going to be a temple rebuilt on the temple mount, in spite of Islam being dead set against it.   But if Ezekiel 38 and 39 are fulfilled as I believe it will happen, Islam will be destroyed, and the current Muslim impediment to the rebuilding of the temple will be taken out of the way.

That Jerusalem is in the news every day and it status is so difficult for resolution, is what God said he would do.   Those prophecies are found in the Tanach.  Jerusalem is found all through the Bible, 669 of them are in the Tanach, and 154 times in the New Testament.   How many times does Mohamed mention Jerusalem in the Quran?

Doug L.
 
OK Doug, let see in this fall, or the next fall, it's not very far. Hopefully you are still in this forum you might want to coordinate "breaking news" for this forum about the coming of the AntiChrist. Even you might want to ask him to join to this forum. LOL By the way in your undestanding the antiChrist will have one eye or 2 eyes.



Maybe he will just disappear and make us believe that he got raptured.  By the time the Antichrist appears, he should be already on his heavenly taxi.


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 4:59am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: So what specifically are you saying is corrupted in the KJV Ezekiel 38 and 39?

Well for one thing, this obsession with Israel being the virtual center of everything.  Its all about Israel and the Jews and to hell with everybody else.  This is not what I would expect from a God who is just and fair; this preference for one race over all others, as if they are superior in some way. 


What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 


Douggg: X, I don't disagree with you that historically there have been many who placed Jesus's coming at different dates - but none of those are based up "after the fact" of Israel having become a nation again, before 1948.  So, you won't find anyone from before 1948 making calculations based on the fact that Israel had actually become a nation again. 

You may call me islamispeace, please. 

So, you have all the answers, huh?  Why didn't those people try to calculate when Israel would become a nation again, first?  Especially, if it was so central to the end times prophecies? 


A big portion of the end times prophecies were sealed until the time of the end.
The time of the end is identified by scripture as the period in history when travel and knowledge are increased.   Meaning our generation.

Daniel 12:4 But http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/thou.html - thou , O Daniel, s*****p the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Many of the prophecies, such as the world will see the resurrection of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, could not have happened, technologically speaking, until our generation.   In our generation we have instant communications globally and satellite TV.


Douggg:
It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you committed a single sin. 


More nonsense.  I was born with a clean slate, innocent and pure.  So were you.  So was Adam.  I became a sinner only through my own actions.  So did you.  So did Adam.

What happens when a baby dies in infancy?  How can it be saved?  After all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of the majesty of God!)?


Your soul was joined to Adam's flesh.    That you cannot get around.   

1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/blot.html - blot out my transgressions.

2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4 Against http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/thee.html - thee , thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hyssop.html - hyssop , and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Using a hyssop branch, Moses sprinkled the people with blood - sealing the Mt Sinai covenant, foreshadowing the shed blood of Jesus, washing away our sins.

Isaiah 52:14 As many were astonied at thee;  his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Also the hyssop branch was used to put the blood on the top and sides of the doorframes, during the passover in Egypt.  Jesus was the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Douggg:  Sin affects the physical as well as the spiritual.   Sin entered the world when Adam disobeyed.

This is absurd!  Like I said, sin is not some physical entity you can touch and hold.  If I were to steal, that would be sin, but it does not affect me physically.  Its not like I get a tumor from stealing.


If your soul (which is not physical) resides in your body, then why not sin in the flesh of Adam?


Douggg: It affected the animals as well.   So they die.

Oh for the love of...I have heard some real nonsense, but the nonsense coming from you is beyond anything else.  What do the animals have to do with all this? 


It shows that when Adam disobeyed and ate from the tree, sin entered the world and affected everything.   The animal's nature changed as well.

During Jesus's millenial reign forthcoming the animal's nature will change back...

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/lamb.html - lamb , and the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/leopard.html - leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/calf.html - calf and the young lion and the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/fatling.html - fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/cow.html - cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/cockatrice.html - cockatrice ' den.

Are you saying plants die also because of the sin of Adam?  Confused


I don't know what affect sin had on them.  I do know this verse...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Douggg: You and I are related to Adam more that just by blood.  Our bodies are his actual flesh.

Even if this was somehow true, its not like sin infected him like a disease, like AIDS.  His sin was his own.


Sin is analogeous to AIDs.   Being the first man, created without a sin nature, when he ate from the tree and his nature changed, it affected all who were borne after him and of him.

Douggg:  The decision on how Jesus would die was God's decision.  Why are you so against the way that God chose?

I am not against God's will.  I am against the will of those who would try to subvert his will!  People like you! Wink

In other words, you have no idea on how to answer my question.

Douggg: Jesus himself informed the disciples ahead of time how he would die.  That Jesus was crucified meant that his death was witnessed by all.    John the baptist at the beginning of Jesus's public minsitry, proclaimed Jesus as the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world".    Jesus's death on the cross coincided with passover sacrifice of the lambs.   During the passover coming out of Egypt, death passed over those who's dwelling was marked by the blood.

All of this is irrelevant.  I already know all this.  LOL What I want to know is the logic behind it, if any.

Douggg: There are Christian crosses displayed all over the world.   Who doesn't know what those crosses symbolize?    And who died upon it.

He could have simply been crushed by a rock, and then that rock would become the symbol of Christianity.  Do you see the point I am making?  It's not "rocket science", Dougggie!


1Corinthians1:
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Doug L.



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 7:36am
Originally posted by islamispeace


Jesus' entire mission rested on the people who condemned him and wanted to kill him.  That means the Pharisees, the Romans, all of them, ensured that his mission to die for all of us, including the Pharisees and Romans themselves, would succeed.  Therefore, they should be considered heroes since their actions saved us all.  This is air-tight logic, which you simply cannot refute and so claim that it "is a silly waste of my time".


Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).

I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.

btw, when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the plan of salvation.    Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus, thinking that would give him victory.   But Satan was blind to God's plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the resurrection. 

1Corinthians2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Doug L.



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by semar

LOL By the way in your undestanding the antiChrist will have one eye or 2 eyes.


I know that some theorize the Antichrist will be such in association with being mortally wounded based upon Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

I don't know.   It may be possible that the Antichrist is killed in such a fashion that leaves him with damaged arm and missing eye.   When the Antichrist comes back from being mortally wounded - what his appearance with be I don't know that the bible says.   He may retain those wounds to prove to everyone it is him.  Or he may be totally recovered in order to deceive people his claim to be god.

It does say in Daniel 8 that he will be a King of fierce countenance, i.e. a stern facial expression.

Doug L.




Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 8:21pm
Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Douggg: A big portion of the end times prophecies were sealed until the time of the end.

Well, how convenient!  Don't we need a prophet to interpret these prophecies? 

Douggg:
The time of the end is identified by scripture as the period in history when travel and knowledge are increased.   Meaning our generation.

What sort of knowledge?  If you mean spiritual, then actually the opposite happened, because the world is more secular and religious knowledge has decreased. 

It seems to me that if Israel's second birth was so central to the end times, there would have been more information about it in the Bible, and apocalyptic fanatics would have tried to figure out when that would occur before they even thought about trying to figure out the end times.  Its like trying to walk before you crawl.

Douggg:
Your soul was joined to Adam's flesh.    That you cannot get around.   
 

Sure I can, because my flesh is different from his and my sins are my own.

You have a bad habit of ignoring questions when they are posed to you.  I asked about the babies:

What happens when a baby dies in infancy?  How can it be saved?  After all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of the majesty of God!)?

Douggg: If your soul (which is not physical) resides in your body, then why not sin in the flesh of Adam?

Because my soul is my own, as well!  On the Day of Judgment, when our souls are brought forth, we will not have a pile of "sin" next to us.  Or a pile of "good deeds" next to us, for that matter.  Do you see the difference?

Douggg: It shows that when Adam disobeyed and ate from the tree, sin entered the world and affected everything.   The animal's nature changed as well.

It shows that you have an overactive imagination.  The animals have nothing to do with the whole grand scheme.  They don't have free will.  It makes no sense to include them. 

Douggg: I don't know what affect sin had on them.  I do know this verse...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.


See, this is the nonsense I am talking about.  These words of Paul seem to suggest that plants too have been tainted by sin!  They can't even move or make a sound!  They just grow from the ground!

Douggg: Sin is analogeous to AIDs.   Being the first man, created without a sin nature, when he ate from the tree and his nature changed, it affected all who were borne after him and of him.

I am getting tired of hearing the same nonsense.  Believe what you will, but don't tell me to believe it as well.

Douggg: 1Corinthians1:
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Once again, you failed to answer the question!  Instead, you question my "wisdom".  You know what that is called?  Its an ad hominem fallacy.  So, lets see now.  You have used a red herring, a non-sequitur and now an ad hominem.  Looking good, Dougggie! 

Douggg: Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).

False analogy!  Boy, you are doing good! 

The difference between your pathetic analogy and that of mine is that the Muslims who were killed had not planned on it from the start.  Jesus apparently did.  And they certainly were not dying for the sins of others! LOL

Douggg: I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.

btw, when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the plan of salvation.    Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus, thinking that would give him victory.   But Satan was blind to God's plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the resurrection.


We are not talking about the demons and Satan.  We are talking about the humans who supposedly killed Jesus.  But if you do want to talk about them, they too can be considered heroes because by doing what they did, they ensured God's plan would succeed, even though they did not know what they were doing.

Anyway, contrary to your assumption that Satan did not know how humans could achieve salvation, the Quran tells us that he did.  It was quite simple.  Believe in Allah!  That's it!

7:16-18
He (Satan) said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way: "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."  (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all. 


Satan knew that all people had to do was believe in Allah and follow his commandments, so when he was cast out from the presence of Allah, he knew what to do.  He was able to get Adam and Eve to disobey God, which got them booted out from Heaven.  But, he failed to sway them from worshiping Allah, which was the key back into Heaven for them, and for us as well. 

Douggg: 1Corinthians2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In other words, they were pawns. 

Before I close, I forgot in my last post that you had not answered my points on why the Biblical Jesus was such a racist.  For convenience, I will paste my response to your fallacy here:

What Jesus may have said to the Roman does not change what he may have said to the woman he referred to as a dog just because she was a gentile.  Or was Jesus reneging on his racist attitudes?  Did he reform?

You can't simply ignore these questions and think you will get away with it.  I will keep asking until I get an answer. Wink


-------------
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 17 July 2009 at 8:28pm

peace be upon you

Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).
  yes, in a way. like the person that comes to you for help is a blessing a catalist that gives rise to and brings forth the best in us.
  also it's great confedence builder. see most muslims are by rule of life peacefull. compared to other empires islam spead with the least bloodshed{golden age}.
 
 I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.
  maybe, but his favorite was PAUL then those who carried his torch.
 
  when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the plan of salvation.   
   no satan and the jinns who choose to follow his agenda had the heads up on "why he was sent".  
 
Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus, thinking that would give him victory.  
   satan always inspired the evil inside us............ and it did.
 
But Satan was blind to God's plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the resurrection.  
    i replied to the first half two back. satans plan did not manifest itself till after  jesus was lifted up.
   
    PAUL.......
   thats right . they should have LISTEN to him.
 
leland
    
  


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 1:07am
Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 





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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  



Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 10:15pm

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

Peace my friend, welcome to the truth!

Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn’t seems to me you’ve got it right, in other words, you didn’t see the other side.

Originally posted by Douggg


If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

Doug L.

That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=1 - - 2 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=3 - - 4 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=5 - - 6 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=7 - - 20 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=21 -

Originally posted by Douggg


To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - says: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

Originally posted by Douggg


In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

   That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It’s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP!

Originally posted by Douggg


In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Wrong there again! Revelation 12 is not about Israel it is all about the Church and the universal Prophet and your Gog and Magog bedtime story nobody will be protected from them except the Muslims because in a saying of the Prophet (S) he mentioned to the effect that, Allah (S) will send a breeze and take all the souls of them before that destruction.

Note: that destruction will come from heaven.  Revelation20: 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

The beloved city is Mecca.

Originally posted by Douggg

In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Rebuild what temple after 31/2 year later after Gog and Magog destroyed Islam when Revelation 20:10-15 contradicted you bad dream:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I will deal with the rest later, this is a good start.

 

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

I have highlighted your above quote; it seems to me you have to intensify your studies more.

Br. Hack N.C.



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 6:21am
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

Peace my friend, welcome to the truth!

Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn’t seems to me you’ve got it right, in other words, you didn’t see the other side.

Originally posted by Douggg


If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

Doug L.

That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=1 - - 2 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=3 - - 4 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=5 - - 6 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=7 - - 20 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=21 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=21 - Islam will be destroyed at Gog/Magog which immediately precedes the 7 year time of the Antichrist.   At the midpoint of that 7 year, the slain and resurrected Antichrist, thenceforth called "the beast" will deceive the whole world into believing him to be god.    With the exception of those who's name are written in the Lamb's book of Life, Revelation 13:8.   Since muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who was sent to take away the sins of the world, their names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life, slain meaning crucified, from the foundation of the world.    That's how long God has prepared the way of redemption of man's fall at the garden of Eden.   Here's the verse...

Revelation 13:8 And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Originally posted by Douggg


To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - says: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” 

No, I do not have to explain Revelation 2:9.   The countries listed in Ezekiel 38 & 39 are muslim, except for Russia, which is a muslim ally and is providing weapons and nuclear support for Iran.    And it is the muslims who want Israel destroyed.   They have already made at least three major efforts, since Israel became a nation again,  but God has turned the muslims back every single time.  Gog/Magog will be the last time.

Regarding Revelation 2:9, I am aware of the Muslim attempt to twist Ezekiel 38 & 39 to claim the invaders are false Jews coming out of Europe.   Are those teachings specific to Ezekiel 38 & 39 found in the Quran or Hadiths?  If not, it is innovations.

Originally posted by Douggg


In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

   That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It’s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP! 

The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 does tie to Revelation 19:17-18, agreed.  Yes, it is the Armageddon feast because in Revelation 16:13-16, the beast (the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and the dragon (Satan) seduce the world's kings to make war upon Jesus in attempt to stop Jesus's return.  The assemble, gather themselfs, at Aramageddon. Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/miracle.html - miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/brimstone.html - brimstone .

There are no more mention of "Aramgeddon" afterwards in the Christian bible.

After Aramageddon, Jesus reigns and rules upon this earth for 1000 years.  At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released from the bottomless pit for a short time and leads another rebellion.   Gog and Magog included.

Your argument is that because Gog/Magog are at the end of the thousand years, Ezekiel 38 & 39 is timed to be at the end of the thousand years, right?

Your arguments is incorrect, because (1) Gog is a fallen angel, like the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece of Daniel 10 (2) Magog is the area that Gog has influence over.   In Daniel 12, the angel that watches over Israel is Michael.

So Gog is not a man.   That is how he can appear in the pre- Antichrist reign, in Ezekiel 38-39 and again a thousand years later at the end of Jesus's millenial reign on thise present earth.

Here's the bible proof of why Ezekiel 38-39 is not at the end of the thousand years, in Revelation 20.     Following the Ekeziel invasion of Gog/Magog, there is a clean up of the land and 7 years of burning the remains (the diesel IMO) of Gog's army as fuel.  As well as cleaning up the land of all the dead bodies, which takes 7 months and Ezekiel 39:12-16 gives great detail of the cleaning of the land.

However, in Revelation 20, following Satan's last rebellion, accompanied by Gog, againover the land of Magog, leading a great multitude are quickly destroyed by fire coming down from heaven to consume all of them.     

THERE ARE NO SEVEN YEARS FOLLOWING the Gog/Magog attack in Revelation 20, like in Ezekiel 39.    THERE IS NO CLEANSING OF THE LAND like in Ezekiel 39.... because it says there is no more heaven and earth afterwards.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Following the great white throne Judgement, it says in Revelation 21, there is a new heaven, a new earth, and a new Jerusalem

Chapter 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/bride.html - bride adorned for her husband.

New Jerusalem, NOT MECCA....!!!!!

Originally posted by Douggg


In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion.

The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the
Antichrist.

Wrong there again! Revelation 12 is not about Israel it is all about the Church and the universal Prophet and your Gog and Magog bedtime story nobody will be protected from them except the Muslims because in a saying of the Prophet (S) he mentioned to the effect that, Allah (S) will send a breeze and take all the souls of them before that destruction.

In Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman is Israel, not the church, because the description above of is the same that Joseph had in a dream of Israel back in Exodus 37:9.   The Church is not mentioned during the time of the Antichrist in Revelation, which the account begins in Revelation 6 with the opening of the seals and ends in Revelation 19 with the Antichrist being cast into the laske of fire.   The Church, the body of believers will be raptured out of the world before the time of the Antichrist, and will be returning with Jesus as his bride.

There will be three separate resurrections, which covers all of humanity.  Everyone takes part in one, and only one, of these three resurrections.

1. The resurrection and rapture of 1thess4:15-18, which takes place in my view, prior to the time of the Antichrist.

2. Then there will be the resurrection of those who became Christians during the time of the Antichrist and who were subsequently martyred.  Revelation 20:4-6.

3. Then there will be a resurrection for the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20:12-15

You have highlighted judged by their works.  

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do mulsims believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God?   Nope.

So no muslim, depending upon the amount of Truth of the gospel message received outside of the teachings of Islam, will have his name written in the book of life on Judgement day.

Well, what about little babies who die?   And what about people in all parts of the world who had never heard about Jesus?

The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.

Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

Doug L.  



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  




LOL Douggie, I will answer your questions when you answer mine.  You skipped 95% of my last response.  Answer my questions on Jesus being a racist, what happens to babies that die in infancy, and why it the Pharisees and Romans cannot be considered heroes for their killing of Jesus.  While you are answering these questions, I will begin preparing my response to your questions. 




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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 19 July 2009 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by islamispeace

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.


Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  


There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims. 


But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel? 
  If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  




LOL Douggie, I will answer your questions when you answer mine.  You skipped 95% of my last response.  Answer my questions on Jesus being a racist, what happens to babies that die in infancy, and why it the Pharisees and Romans cannot be considered heroes for their killing of Jesus.  While you are answering these questions, I will begin preparing my response to your questions. 


Mr. X, I skipped over your other comments and questions because once you see that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is God's condemnation of Islam, those questions, to me, become irrelavent to the salvation of your soul IMO.

Satan's goal is destroy both the Jews and Israel.   Also the souls of men.   Islam is just one of Satan's weapons.   As was the Catholic Church in the middle ages Shocked.  

Unfortunately, Satan has many persons deceived, thinking that they are doing God a service by destroying Israel and the Jews.   

Regarding the destiny of the babies who die, I responded in my previous post above, the first post on this page (6), near the end of the text.   

Regarding your false charge of Jesus being a racist, saying that he called the woman a dog, the woman was not offended as woud be in a racial slur because of the context of Jesus making a point in the terms of a parable.... "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Jesus also greatly complimented her faith.   He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Jesus in comparison to the animal kingdom even said of himself of his situation being less than that of the foxes and birds...Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.   

Jesus also referred to the Jews as lost sheep, and the Pharisees as snakes, and Herod as a fox.  Jesus used comparisons to the animal kingdom.  It was not racism, which is founded on hatred of one race against another.   Jesus loves everyone.   And gave his life accordingly... as the Lamb of God. 


Doug L.


Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:41am
Doug: Satan's goal is destroy both the Jews and Israel.   Also the souls of men.   Islam is just one of Satan's weapons.   As was the Catholic Church in the middle ages

Semar: Wow, this is another interesting point.



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Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:59am
Doug:

Well, what about little babies who die?   And what about people in all parts of the world who had never heard about Jesus?

The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.

Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

Semar:
This the inconsistency of the original sin concept. It's very confusing. What did you say will only apply if there is no original sin. In Islam there is no original sins, that's why it's very easy to follow by logic. Babies who just born, do nothing, know nothing, still clean, so they have not had any sins yet, that why they are eligible to go to paradise. Because paradise is for the un-sin people.

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Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 3:28pm
Douggg: Mr. X, I skipped over your other comments and questions because once you see that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is God's condemnation of Islam, those questions, to me, become irrelavent to the salvation of your soul IMO.

No, you are simply trying to dodge the questions, Dougggie! LOL

Because of the inconsistencies and contradictions of your religion, I know already that your interpretation of Ezekiel is wrong, if Ezekiel is indeed the unaltered word of God.  I know from the inconsistencies and contradictions that the Christian message is not the word of God.  So, your beliefs about the future are irrelevant.

Douggg: The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

This directly contradicts what you have previously said.  See what I mean about the contradictions? Wink

This is what you said: It shows that you, as well as all who are of Adam's flesh, have inherited the penalty of sin, which is death...even before you committed a single sin.

You also admit that there is no scriptural basis for your claim that the infants will be saved.  I find it odd that the scriptures somehow forgot to discuss the fate of the little babies.  It seems like an important topic to discuss. Confused

In any case, since the infants are tainted by the "scourge" of sin, and God does not allow sin in His presence, then how can you maintain that the infants are saved?  Your argument that the claim is supported "based upon God's grace and mercy" is also a weak argument since the Old Testament records that God ordered on several occasions the extermination of literally thousands of babies belonging to the various nations surrounding Israel.  There was no mercy for those babies. 


Douggg: Regarding your false charge of Jesus being a racist, saying that he called the woman a dog, the woman was not offended as woud be in a racial slur because of the context of Jesus making a point in the terms of a parable....
"It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

The woman was not "offended" according to the authors of the text.  That is because they were trying to establish the Jews superiority over other races.  Let me be clear: I don't believe Jesus actually said that.  I think it is an example of heretics putting words in his mouth.

Douggg:
Jesus also greatly complimented her faith.   He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Yes, because she "admitted" or "excepted" her inferior position.  In other words, Jesus basically expected her to assume a position of inferiority before he would help her.  Some mercy, huh? 

Douggg: Jesus in comparison to the animal kingdom even said of himself of his situation being less than that of the foxes and birds...Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.  

This is a false analogy again.  In the context the Gospels put dogs in, it is clear that it was meant as a derogatory term, when applied to people.  Case in point: Luke 16:20-23

20
At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, #fen-NIV-25636a - [ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2016:20-23;&version=31;#fen-NIV-25636a - a ] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

From this touching story, we see the context of dogs.  They were associated with everything lowly and dirty.  So, when Jesus uses the word to refer to non-Jews, he used it in the context of them being below the Jews.  The Jews were the "masters" and the Gentiles were the "dogs".  Only when the woman excepted this role was she commended by Jesus.  This is racism, pure and simple.  And it corroborates everything I have said about the Bible and it's obsession with the superiority of the Jews. 

Douggg: Jesus also referred to the Jews as lost sheep, and the Pharisees as snakes, and Herod as a fox.  Jesus used comparisons to the animal kingdom.  It was not racism, which is founded on hatred of one race against another.   Jesus loves everyone.   And gave his life accordingly... as the Lamb of God. 

Referring to the Jews as "sheep" is not the same as referring to non-Jews as "dogs".  If he were not a racist, he would have used the same term for both.  If he were not a racist, he would have referred to the Jews as "lost dogs" or the Gentiles as "sheep" as well. 

Even in modern times, people use certain terms which I will not mention here because of their vulgarity, to refer to certain ethnic or racial groups.  They don't refer to themselves with those same terms because the terms have a certain derogatory connotation with regard to the people they apply to.  Therefore, your claim that the Biblical Jesus loves everyone is complete BS.  I guess we can call it DS also. LOL 




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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 11:02pm

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by Douggg

Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life.
Doug L.

Peace my friend, welcome to the truth!

Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn’t seems to me you’ve got it right, in other words, you didn’t see the other side.

Originally posted by Douggg


If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor.

Doug L.

That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link:

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382 - - 1 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=2 - - 3 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=4 - - 5 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=6 - - 7 ... http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=20 - - 21 

Hi Mr. Zainool,

Jesus warned of false prophets that would come after him and will lead many astray.  Mohamed is the greatest of those so far.   But he will be out done by the Antichrist and False Prophet in Revelation. http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14382&PN=21 -  

Mr. Doug, they link above that I’ve provide prove otherwise; saying he is a false prophet is one thing and proving it is another thing. That would mean all of your explanation of how Islam will be destroyed falls apart.

 
Br.Zainool


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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 11:16pm

Originally posted by Douggg

 

Originally posted by Douggg


To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace.

Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced.

Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - says: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” 

No, I do not have to explain Revelation 2:9.   The countries listed in Ezekiel 38 & 39 are muslim, except for Russia, which is a muslim ally and is providing weapons and nuclear support for Iran.    And it is the muslims who want Israel destroyed.   They have already made at least three major efforts, since Israel became a nation again,  but God has turned the muslims back every single time.  Gog/Magog will be the last time.

Regarding Revelation 2:9, I am aware of the Muslim attempt to twist Ezekiel 38 & 39 to claim the invaders are false Jews coming out of Europe.   Are those teachings specific to Ezekiel 38 & 39 found in the Quran or Hadiths?  If not, it is innovations.

Doug L.  

Mr. Doug, We Muslims do not used the Bible as a book to determine our faith, all I am doing is tried to aware Christians what they don’t know about their Bible and Ezekiel 38-39 Muslims has lest to do with it. As for fake Jews coming out of Europe they got it from this link: http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html - - http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html

Clip: A disquisition on Khazar Jews, the real Israel and the situation in Palestine.  And a message to the Ashkenazim, who are properly known in prophecy as Gog:  Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?


 

So too, the term "anti-semitism" is rendered void of meaning and useless, at least insofar as it is employed by the Turkic Ashkenazim as propaganda.  Ironically, their Palestinian Arab victims are real Semites, along with the Sephardic Jews, Arabs in general and a few other groups, all of the blood of Abraham.  At best, the Turkic Khazar-derived Ashkenazim are very long lost cousins of the Semitic folk, and have limited commonality with them in their genes along with the common house-fly and a host of other creatures of the Almighty's vast creation.

Indeed, in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, clear expression is made of a remnant of one sixth of Gog surviving and then arriving on the mountains of Israel, which is exactly how the Ashkenazi Khazar-derived Jews made their grand entrance into Palestine before, during and after World War II.  The prophecies against Gog are dire prophecies, and the impersonation of the Ashkenazi Jews as blood descended Jews of the House of Judah or even of other Israelites descended from the lost 10 tribes of the House of Israel is clearly the point of the Almighty's command to Ezekiel to say to them, "In that day when my people Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?"  (Ezekiel 38:14)  Sixty years are more than enough to know this tree by its fruits!

In chapters 37 and 40 of the Book of Ezekiel, at the beginning and end of the prophecies against Gog, are prophecies concerning the real Israel.  In chapter 37, it is shown that the real Israel will be known by a sanctuary, a king and the Almighty's covenant of peace.  Chapter 40 to the end describes the location and details of the sanctuary.  (For more about the correct site of the real Israel's next physical temple, see Appendix A of An Eight Part Peace Proposal for Greater Jerusalem at http://www.show-the-house.com/id3.html - Only a fundamental change of heart will enable the Turkic Khazar-derived Jews to forgo the wrong temple site, the corrupt politics and full spectrum fraud and force against the indigenous people of Palestine.  Now economic woes will soon force a moment of truth. 

 

Are you not seeing that after the world trade incident the whole world has change? All Bush’s wars help to bring dong the man made world economy except the Islamic one, and another one with Iran will do the job that is why the Arabs are giving the green light to Israel (the suppose Jews). Then after that the Messiah will finish them off. The fall of Israel is already underway.

Br.zainool

 



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 12:09am

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by Douggg


In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood.

Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead.

However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.

   That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It’s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP! 

Your argument is that because Gog/Magog are at the end of the thousand years, Ezekiel 38 & 39 is timed to be at the end of the thousand years, right?

Your arguments is incorrect, because (1) Gog is a fallen angel, like the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece of Daniel 10 (2) Magog is the area that Gog has influence over.   In Daniel 12, the angel that watches over Israel is Michael.

So Gog is not a man.   That is how he can appear in the pre- Antichrist reign, in Ezekiel 38-39 and again a thousand years later at the end of Jesus's millenial reign on thise present earth.

Mr.Doug, I have highlighted your quote.

The bible says different here: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2010&version=9 - Genesis 10:2,  The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

 

http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html - http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html

Clip:

 On the other hand, Koestler does indeed display key knowledge from the Holy Bible which bears directly on the subject matter at hand, the Khazars.  For starters, he cites the genealogies in Genesis 10:2, where Magog is shown to descend from Japheth, son of Noah and brother of Shem.  To this fundamental fact he adds several references (pages 20, 46, 72f & 81) to ancient traditions identifying Khazars with Gog and Magog.  Perhaps the clearest prophecy of Gog supplanting the real Israel is in Genesis 9:29, "God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem..."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2010&version=9 - Genesis 10:2,  The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

You have to intensify your study more!

Br.Zainool

 



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 7:31am

Originally posted by Douggg

Your argument is that because Gog/Magog are at the end of the thousand years, Ezekiel 38 & 39 is timed to be at the end of the thousand years, right?

Your arguments is incorrect, because (1) Gog is a fallen angel, like the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece of Daniel 10 (2) Magog is the area that Gog has influence over.   In Daniel 12, the angel that watches over Israel is Michael.

So Gog is not a man.   That is how he can appear in the pre- Antichrist reign, in Ezekiel 38-39 and again a thousand years later at the end of Jesus's millenial reign on thise present earth.

Mr.Doug, I have highlighted your quote.

I did a run on the lexicon and this is what turns up:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Chronicles%205:4&version=9 - - sons of http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03100 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08098 - - son, http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01463 - - Gog his http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01121 - - son, http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08096 - - son,

Young men have visions and Old men have dreams like you Mr. Doug!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2010&version=9 -  The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekial%2039&version=9 -  1Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

 2And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

 3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

---------

Indeed, in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, clear expression is made of a remnant of one sixth of Gog surviving and then arriving on the mountains of Israel, which is exactly how the Ashkenazi Khazar-derived Jews made their grand entrance into Palestine before, during and after World War II.  The prophecies against Gog are dire prophecies, and the impersonation of the Ashkenazi Jews as blood descended Jews of the House of Judah or even of other Israelites descended from the lost 10 tribes of the House of Israel is clearly the point of the Almighty's command to Ezekiel to say to them, "In that day when my people Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?"  (Ezekiel 38:14)  Sixty years are more than enough to know this tree by its fruits!

http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html -

 

Br.Zainool



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 23 July 2009 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Indeed, in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, clear expression is made of a remnant of one sixth of Gog surviving and then arriving on the mountains of Israel, which is exactly how the Ashkenazi Khazar-derived Jews made their grand entrance into Palestine before, during and after World War II.  The prophecies against Gog are dire prophecies, and the impersonation of the Ashkenazi Jews as blood descended Jews of the House of Judah or even of other Israelites descended from the lost 10 tribes of the House of Israel is clearly the point of the Almighty's command to Ezekiel to say to them, "In that day when my people Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?"  (Ezekiel 38:14)  Sixty years are more than enough to know this tree by its fruits!

http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html -

Br.Zainool


1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

Hi Mr. Zainool, Smile  the one sixth is the remains of Gog's army after God destroys them and are turned back.  It hasn't happen yet.    If Koester claimed that the one sixth in Ezekiel 39 is the Jews remaining in the world after WWII, who returned to the land of Israel, he is certainly wrong, because the destruction of Gog's army has not happened yet.   And when it does, the one sixth are those of Russia who will be turned back.    

The one sixth of those turned back in Gog/Magog, which just precedes the 7 year time of the Antichrist, will invade again, along with a fresh batch of soldiers 7 years later - near the end of the Antichrist's rule.   They are part of the king of the North's army in Daniel 11:40 who will attack the Antichrist.

Gog is referred to as the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.  There are different opinons on who Meshech and Tubal are.   Nonetheless, Gog, "the chief Prince", is a fallen angel of Satan's camp, like the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece in Daniel 10.

In Daniel 10, the angel bringing a message to Daniel from God had to fight the prince of persia (Iran).   When the angel left Daniel to return, the angel had to fight both the prince of Persia and the prince of Greece.   Surely, you don't think an angel would have problems getting past human princes that the angel would need the help of Michael the great angel, do you?  Even Michael is referred to as a prince (one of the chief princes - in the text below)

The prince of persia and the prince of greece are both fallen angels of Satan's camp.   Gog is also referred to as a prince in Ezekiel 39:1 above.    All three are fallen angels of Satan's camp.

13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia..

20 Then said he, Knowest  thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

You may not be aware of it, but in recent years there has been a big push by the rabbi's concerning the umbrella religion of Noachism.   Noachism is an alternative religion for Gentiles (in rabbi thinking) because Judaism can only be practiced by Jews.   It seems to be gaining some popularity.  I have read many testimonies from Noachides that they were formerly Christians.   After the rapture of the Church, IMO, Noahidism will become the religion of choice for many.    I would include in that group who become Noahides will be many current Muslims who will be left without a religon when God destroyes Islam in Gog/Magog.   Some may become Christian, however, albeit not called the church in Revelation, but saints of the tribulation period reign of the Antichrist.  But it would be best not to have to go through that by being a Christian now.

Doug L.



Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 July 2009 at 7:05pm
All quiet on the Douggie front I see!

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:33pm

Originally posted by Douggg

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Indeed, in chapters 38 and 39 of the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel, clear expression is made of a remnant of one sixth of Gog surviving and then arriving on the mountains of Israel, which is exactly how the Ashkenazi Khazar-derived Jews made their grand entrance into Palestine before, during and after World War II.  The prophecies against Gog are dire prophecies, and the impersonation of the Ashkenazi Jews as blood descended Jews of the House of Judah or even of other Israelites descended from the lost 10 tribes of the House of Israel is clearly the point of the Almighty's command to Ezekiel to say to them, "In that day when my people Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?"  (Ezekiel 38:14)  Sixty years are more than enough to know this tree by its fruits!

http://www.show-the-house.com/id55.html -

Br.Zainool

1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

Hi Mr. Zainool,    the one sixth is the remains of Gog's army after God destroys them and are turned back.  It hasn't happen yet.   

  Agreed!

 

Originally posted by Douggg

 

  If Koester claimed that the one sixth in Ezekiel 39 is the Jews remaining in the world after WWII, who returned to the land of Israel, he is certainly wrong, because the destruction of Gog's army has not happened yet.   And when it does, the one sixth are those of Russia who will be turned back.    

   Here is where you got it wrong! Part of Koester claimed is wrong. However, his claimed that the so call Jews the Ashkenazim, who are properly known in prophecy as Gog he give proof: “Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?” So, you can see, the so call Jews does not dwell safely and your bible describe them in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - - Rev.2:9 “…I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Your fallen angel story comes in handy here although we do not believe that. Jews is church of Satan? I wander when the antichrist comes where he would set up his church can you tell me please?

  Also, antichrist is against Christ and who is against Christ? I know Christians believe in Christ also Muslims, except that they have different views who he is.

  If the Jews are the Church of Satan then they antichrist will join with them to wage war against the saint.

  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Rev.13:6)

  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Rev.13:7)

  The question is who is ruling the world now (having power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations), invading country and dropping bomb at will in them without permission? I know the “West” and also “Israel” dropped “bombs” on Saddam’s nuclear site in the past and other Muslims countries, Lebanon and Syria what they did to them the other day. Added to that, 3oo + Military base all across the planet with one super computer to communicate and wage war with Drones and their dollars right now ruling the world. They are printing paper and flooding the world for hard goods but the world already recognize it (printed paper for Oil and food). Who in charge of that, America? No, President Obama is just a rubber stamp for AIPAC.

  Their coming destruction then one sixth of them will turn back and find where they came from.

Mr. Zainool



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 6:19am
Originally posted by truthnowcome


Here is where you got it wrong! Part of Koester claimed is wrong. However, his claimed that the so call Jews the Ashkenazim, who are properly known in prophecy as Gog he give proof: “Thus saith the Lord God; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?” So, you can see, the so call Jews does not dwell safely and your bible describe them in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202:9&version=9 - - Rev.2:9 “…I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Your fallen angel story comes in handy here although we do not believe that. Jews is church of Satan? I wander when the antichrist comes where he would set up his church can you tell me please?

  Also, antichrist is against Christ and who is against Christ? I know Christians believe in Christ also Muslims, except that they have different views who he is.

  If the Jews are the Church of Satan then they antichrist will join with them to wage war against the saint.

  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Rev.13:6)

  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (Rev.13:7)

  The question is who is ruling the world now (having power over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations), invading country and dropping bomb at will in them without permission? I know the “West” and also “Israel” dropped “bombs” on Saddam’s nuclear site in the past and other Muslims countries, Lebanon and Syria what they did to them the other day. Added to that, 3oo + Military base all across the planet with one super computer to communicate and wage war with Drones and their dollars right now ruling the world. They are printing paper and flooding the world for hard goods but the world already recognize it (printed paper for Oil and food). Who in charge of that, America? No, President Obama is just a rubber stamp for AIPAC.

  Their coming destruction then one sixth of them will turn back and find where they came from.

Mr. Zainool



Hi Mr. Zainool,  the Jews are not the church of satan.   I am not certain who Revelation 2:9 is talking about, but my guess would be the Pharisees of the first centrury.

Antichrist doesn't have a church as such.   As far as wher the Antichrist will have his headquarters, the Antichrist will enter the temple of God and will deceptively show to the world that he is "god" (2thessalonians2:4).

Thus, there will first have to be a temple on the temple mount before that prophecy can be fulfilled.

There is currently no temple in place on the temple mount - because of Islam.
So there has to be some major changes to the current status.    There are some theories that a Jewish temple could be built adjacent to the dome of the rock.   Maybe, I don't know.  

You are right Israel is not completely in peace right now.   Who is always attacking Israel?    Islam, quiest simply.    Nonetheless, comparatively speaking of where they came out of Holocaust Europe into the land that God had given them in His promis, they are in peace right now.   Let's just say that is not good enough to meet the requirement of Ezekiel 38, though.    I see two potential paths that the prophecy of Israel being in peace could play out.

1. That there is a peace treaty sponsored by the quartet.    Not involving the Antichrist.

2. That there is a peace treaty involving the Antichrist.

How can one tell the difference?    The key will be - does the peace treaty have a very visible 7 year stipulation, and does the terms allow the Jews to rebuild their temple.  

I am of the opinion that what is coming next is the non-Antichrist quartet sponsored peace treaty.    Which after a very short amount of time, there will be Gog/Magog.    Which will destroy Islam, and the Antichrist will then show up and confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

Mr. Zainool, you also quoted Revelation 13.   The events of Revelation 13 do not take place until the midway point of the 7 year rule of the Antichrist. The 42 months in Revelation 13:5 that the Antichrist has power over the entire world, as the "beast", until Jesus returns to destroy him, is after he (the Antichrist) will have been killed and comes back to life.   The "beast" terminology refers to him being the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit.  

There has been a trend, in the past couple of years especially, by many Christian end times commentators to weave Islam and the Mahdi as the Antichrist and the Antichrist religion.    Although the Islam religion does display the spirit of Antichrist because it denies that Jesus is God, the trinity, the death on the cross, and the resurrection,  I don't see muslims worshipping the Antichrist, which will be required, because to do so would be a violation of islam.   My view is that Islam as a functioning religion just will not be around when the Antichrist claims to be god by going into the Jewish Temple of God.


Doug L.


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 02 August 2009 at 12:15am
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13298 - Revelation11 the destruction of the Temple!

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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 08 August 2009 at 5:52pm

Mr. Doug, what up Bro! You run blank! I said young men are VISSIONERIES and old men are DREAMERS! How many years you say that you study prophesy? 30! Am I correct? Do you think you wasted them?

Here is so additional info.

It is mentioned in Isaiah 29:12 (KJV) And the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05612 - - is http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05414 - - delivered ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8738 - - 8738 ) to him that is not http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - - learned http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05612 - - * ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8804 - - 8804 ) , http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - - saying ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8800 - - 8800 ) , http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07121 - - Read ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8798 - - 8798 ) this, I pray thee: and he http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - - saith ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8804 - - 8804 ) , I am not http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - - learned ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8804 - - 8804 ) .

w http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05414 - h http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05612 - )l ($r l(- http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05612 - l http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07121 - n(-zh w http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - l( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05612 -

And in that day shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and they among men shall rejoice in the Holy one of Israel. (Isaiah.29:18-19)

That prophesy was fulfilled by Muhammad (S):  

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammads_first_revelation - : Muhammad (S) used to go up mountain cave, called Ghar-Hera, in Arabia (Mt. Paran) to meditate. While he was there an angel, later identified as Gabriel, commanded him saying: “read” and he respond by saying: “I am not learned,” the angel repeat the act three times, then Muhammad (S) began to repeat the command of the angel which became the first five verse of surah 96, Al-Alaq, of the Qur’an. 

  Read: In the name of thy Lord who created. Created man from a clot. Read: and thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen, Taught man which he knew not. (Q.96:1-5)

   Allah conform it in the Quran: Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q.7:157).

   And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48)

   Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5)

 

After mentioned that I will look further in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2029&version=9 -

It begins: 

1Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.

 2Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.

 3And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.

  God is pronouncing Judgment against the city of Jerusalem. There were two sets of people of whom Judgment will come upon. Let read:

V.4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Who are these people? Verse 5 tells us who they are:

 5Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.

It is all about multitude of thy stranger and the multitude of the terrible ones.

 2 mentioned:

Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.”

Thy stranger will be unto God as Ariel! The multitude of stranger shall be like small dust but the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away. Who are the terrible ones? It is the leader of the suppose Jews’! How de know that?  

Isaiah29:10 mentioned: “For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered”.

Prophet Hood ended at that Junction! Isaiah 28 gives you in full details: It is mentioned in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2028:1-2&version=9 - - Isaiah.28:2 when the “Mighty Strong One” will come:

“But they (supposed Jews) also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; the err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2028:7-9&version=9 - - Isaiah.28:7-9

  They are the multitude of the terrible ones against multitude of thy stranger! This is how they were described in  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2028:14&version=9 -

“Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.”

 God Almighty is talking about “scornful men,” that “rule the people” which in Jerusalem: The leaders who rule Jerusalem and not the Jews, he describe them as “scornful men” and this would be at the advent of Muhammad (S).

And the “word of the Lord” describes them:

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2028:14-15&version=9 - -  “Because ye (scornful men that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.) have said, We have made a covenant with death, and hell are we at agreement; When the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we (scornful men) made LIES our refuge, and under FALSEHOOD have we hide ourselves.”

They made a covenant with death, and hell when the Mighty Strong One will come who is no other than [Muhammad (S)]. So, both prophesy tied into each other, Isaiah 28 and 29!

 

  Those judgments that mentioned in Isaiah 28:2-5 will occur at the beginning of the end of the prophet Hood of the Jews’ until the siege of the multitude of stranger, which is now; they terrible ones will be as “chaff that passeth away.” (Isaiah 29:5)

Isa 29:20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

Now, God Almighty gives the reason why has ended the Prophet Hood with the Jews:

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have remove their heart far from me, and their fear towards me is taught by the precept of men. ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2029:13-19&version=9 - - Isaiah.29:13 )

   Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. (Isaiah29:14)

Woe unto them (the leader of the Jews’) that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their work are in darkness, and they say, who Seeth us? And who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things up-side down shall be esteemed as the putter’s clay… (Isaiah29:15-16)

“Because ye (scornful men that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.) have said, We have made a covenant with death, and hell are we at agreement; When the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we (scornful men) made LIES our refuge, and under FALSEHOOD have we hide ourselves.” http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2028:14-15&version=9 - -

Jesus (S) told them in:

  http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=mt+21%3A43&section=0&it=kjv&oq=mt%252021%3A43&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=mt&ng=21&ncc=21 - - Matt.21:43 “Therefore say I unto you The kingdom of God shall taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

This is the Lord’s doings, and it is marvelous in our eyes. ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2021:42-44&version=9 - - Matt.21:42 )

  And in that day (when the book is reveled to the unlettered Prophet) shall the deaf hear the word of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and they among men shall rejoice in the Holy one of Israel. (Isaiah.29:18-19)

Compare closing of the eyes of the Jews:

 Isaiah29:10  For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered”.

HOW SUDELLY THE HOLY ONE OF ISREAL APPEAR THERE WHEN GOD ALMIGHTY CLOSE THE EYES OF THE PROPHET OF THE JEWS? DOESN’T ADD UP!

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 08 August 2009 at 11:51pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13298 - Revelation11 the destruction of the Temple!

Hi Mr. Zainool,   I read through your posts.   The two witnesses in Revelation will be two men, who will be prophets, Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

They also issue those plagues on a global scale.   The church doesn't issue plagues.   The two witnesses will be two individuals.   Almost certainly one of the two witnesses will be Elijah, who in supposed to come before the great terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5-6.

Jews are expecting Elijah as well.   

There is a false prophet who will appear along side of the Antichrist.   The false prophet will probably claim to be Elijah.

The 1260 days of the two witnesses testimony is literal days.   The 1260 days is the first half of the seven year time of the Antichrist.   

The 3 1/2 days which the two witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem is literal.   The people of the earth will rejoice over their death.  

I point that out because in your interpretations you have made critical errors in not taking the days as literal, but as each day is a year.  Mr. Zainool, all of the timeframes of the end times have to fit within the 7 years of the Antichrist, which is the 70th week of Daniel 9.

The 2300 days of Daniel 8, the times and half times of Daniel 7, the 1290 days and 1335th day of Daniel 12, the 42 months of Revelation 13, the 1260 days of Revelation 11, the 1260 days of Revelation 12, the time and half times of Revelation 12, the 7 years of Ezekiel 39, ...... all have to fit within the 70th week of Daniel 9.

Doug L.



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