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Jesus is not All-Powerful and Not All-Kno

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Prophets - Jesus
Forum Discription: Prophets - Jesus
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14666
Printed Date: 20 October 2014 at 7:45pm


Topic: Jesus is not All-Powerful and Not All-Kno
Posted By: seekshidayath
Subject: Jesus is not All-Powerful and Not All-Kno
Date Posted: 08 May 2009 at 7:03pm
 
Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing.  The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, and not all-knowing, since he had some limitations.

Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown except few things: “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.” (Mark 6:5).  Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (see Mark 8:22-26).

Therefore, although we hold a great love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God.

Mark’s Gospel also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge.  In Mark 13:32, Jesus declared that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that (see also Matthew 24:36).

Therefore, Jesus could not have been the all-knowing God.  Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell.  But that complicates matters further.  Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell.  Instead, he said that he does not know.  We must believe him.  Jesus does not lie at all.

The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge.  Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52).  In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience.  But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things.  He knows everything always.  So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.

Another example for the limited knowledge of Jesus is the fig tree episode in the Gospels.  Mark tells us as follows: “The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry.  Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit.  When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.” (Mark 11:12-13).

It is clear from these verses that the knowledge of Jesus was limited on two counts.  First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it.  Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.

Can he become God later?  No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2).

Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited.  Well, that would mean that God changed.  But God does not change.  God said so according to Malachi 3:6.

Jesus never was God, and never will be.  In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).

The Bible clearly shows that Jesus was not all-powerful and all-knowing as the true God should be.

Source : website of Br. shabbirally


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."



Replies:
Posted By: SteveB
Date Posted: 29 October 2009 at 3:45pm
Salaam Aleychum,

Jesus never was God, and never will be.  In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).


Indeed this is as true a statement as I've ever heard-- in reference to Isa. 43:10. There is only one God. As is written in the shmah-- Shma Israel, YHVH elohenu, YHVH, Echad.
Or, in anglicized form-- Hear O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is One.

Which brings up the question why would Jesus be considered God by the writer- John, who wrote the gospel of John?
In numerous places in the gospel of John, Jesus is said to be the Word-- John 1:1, and how that the Word was God. Moreover, that the "Word became flesh, and dwelt among us." John 1:14.
Then, in John 8:58, Jesus responds to the hebrew leadership's statement regarding Abraham-- Before Abraham was, I AM.
This is indeed the same name that God spoke to Moses in the book of Exodus when asked-- Whom shall I say sent me? And God responds-- tell them, I AM that I AM has sent you.
What strikes me isn't that Jesus said this, it's the response of the leadership after his statement-- they picked up stones to stone him because he'd blasphemed. They clearly understood something we've either missed or are ignoring.
Then, in John 9, after healing the man blind from birth, Jesus declares-- I AM the Light of the World.
In John 10, he declares-- I AM the Good Shepherd, referring back to Ezekiel 34, and God's promise to provide a good shepherd Himself.
He also declares himself as the Door to God's Sheepfold.
At one point, he's receiving complaints regarding some of his miracle workings, and he responds by telling the leadership, and his hearers-- I and the Father are One.
His hearers get it, and immediately respond with trying to stone him-- again for blasphemy. When he asks-- why, they respond, because you being a man, make yourself out to be God.
In John 11, just before raising Lazarus, declares to Mary and Martha-- I AM the Resurrection and the Life.
Then in what strikes me as a coup de gras, Jesus tops it all by declaring-- I AM the Way, I AM the Truth, I AM the Life, No man comes to the Father, But through me.
Then, I'm also curious what Isaiah 44:6 means.
I read that God is speaking through the prophet Isaiah, and saying that He will come, then he references another, calling him My Redeemer, YHVH of Hosts.
""Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I [am] the First and I [am] the Last; Besides Me [there is] no God."

Please explain these.
to me they seem rather clear that Jesus is more than simply a man.
As Paul said in Philippians 2:6-8-- "who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, "

Or, in Colossians 2:9, where Jesus is identified as having the "fullness of the Godhead in bodily form."

salaam


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 December 2009 at 7:03pm
Steve,
your reply and quotes in response to what sister have presented above simply point to one reality: The unclear and opposing view about Jesus in the Bible.
Something does not agree within itself, in your argument. You point out to quotes that in your view show that Jesus was equal to God or God. While what sister showed us above from the same Bible proves he was not God.
So, there is no explanation that will change that fact.

I AM a believer indeed who believes that Jesus was a man, and yes more than a man, a chosen of God to guide who were lost, a prophet of God. He served God as prophets did since Adam.
You might have to settle with ideas like Jesus 100% man and 100% God to overcome this problem as some others did on this forum, or you can come to more clear answer that Jesus indeed could not God. After all he was born,  had a mother who cleaned, nursed and protected him. He worshiped and served whom he called God.

And my this belief comes from a source that clears things up about Jesus without leaving any room for interpretations or head scratching, the Final Testament of God, The Quran.

There are several verses in the Quran that mention Jesus, and all in 100% agreement with each other. Here is one:
5:116  And behold! Allah will say: "O jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Peace,

Hasan



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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 27 December 2009 at 7:23pm
I agree with brother Hasan.  The simple answer to the points raised by Steve is that we have a direct contradiction.  The important point to note, Steve, is that the verses you allude to are from a different gospel.  It is amazing how differently the various gospels present Jesus.  The Gospel of Mark, which scholars believe was the first to be written, presents a human Jesus.  But when we come to the Gospel of John, the last gospel to be written, Jesus has evolved into a god! 

The question is how do Christians reconcile the verses from Mark which clearly show that Jesus was not all-powerful, as sister seekshidayat has shown.  I mean...trying more than once to heal someone?  That definitely does not sound like a divine being to me. 


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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: Qatar974
Date Posted: 19 March 2010 at 10:59pm
Hello Dear sisters and brothers, since I am Christian but study Islam and live it everyday in Qatar I will put my quote that I feel to be both truthful and spirit filled.  As a Chrisitian following the bible; There is but one God and then there is Jesus.  Jesus was more than a prophet but never will he be God.  It is too many times in the bible that Jesus tells his followers it is not me but the father.  Many Muslims and Christians fall prey to the devil trying to divided the two religions that both believe in one God.  As a Christian I was NEVER taught that Jesus was God in the flesh.  This is an outright lie!  Neither was I taught of the Trinity that there is God the father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  I was taught and still believe to this day that they are three separate entities.  Dear Muslims sisters and brothers, most Christians just like many Muslims are Christians by birth but do not read the bible nor the Quran so what they say should not be a representation of these faiths because they are without knowledge on the subjects.  The Christ was amazing because God made him Amazing and yes I do believe he is the son of God as there is no lineage he has no mother no father, you might say then well neither does adam but I say too ok (so what) Adam to is the son of God.  This in itself should not be the dividing line between Muslims and Christians.  The other thing that the devil continues to divide us on if Christ died on the cross.  This one I must admit still proplexes me, but I believe in the Gospel but if I am wrong or the Muslims are wrong then I too believe God will forgive as we have been misled.  Islam is a beautiful religion but I have not converted and don't plan to ever do so for the fact the Quran says that if you follow the Book(The Holy Bible) than you will go to paradise as well.  My husband is a born Arab Mulsim and his faith is one I practice with him while still openly practice my own faith and please dear brothers and sisters stop listening to heresay on what a Christian believes and find a practicing Christian that believes the bible not what they are being taught in the Church!


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 28 June 2010 at 9:00pm
Sister,
Jesus (pbuh) did have a human mother, Mary (RA).  It is a great thing that you do worship to God, and do not believe in Jesus or anything/anyone being God.
It is true that Adam came without a human mother and father, while Jesus only without a human father. Does that make them God's sons, I don't think so. As a Muslim I am very careful not to say or add anything from myself, in truth we and everything/everyone is God's creation not his sons and daughters. In places where words and language can be very important and can change the out come of matter, one is very careful in crafting the draft, I think in this case it should be practiced surely and we must bring to mind the consequences of using words loosely or using them without meaning them the same.
About Jesus' death or dieing for the sins of the world which is mentioned in the Bible itself, I must say that it is in direct contrast within itself, as their are passages where Jesus is quoted to have said that every sin that a person does he/she will pay for it on the Judgment Day of which even he does not know when it will be.
Never say never sister, I have seen a bit too many examples of those who say, "I will never", and Alhhumdolillah they did not know that God had something else planned for them. And they came to submit to their Creator wholeheartedly and with knowledge and purely.

May God guide us all to the truth, and forgive our mistakes.

Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: advice1117
Date Posted: 08 November 2010 at 2:25pm
Would you agree that Jesus was in a human form and thus that is why he wasn't all powerful while he was on the earth?


Posted By: timepiece3
Date Posted: 21 November 2010 at 6:28am
Isn't Jesus an element of God?


Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 7:31am
Son of God has a symbolic, spiritual meaning. Not a biological meaning. Only God is omnipotent.



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A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: ramccluskey
Date Posted: 24 November 2010 at 6:23am
I am a Christian. I am willing to accept the evidence that Jesus, the in flesh, was not all-powerful and all-knowing. Perhaps someone can tell me why this is important as an argument for or against one religion or another. Thanks!


Posted By: Anglicangal
Date Posted: 17 February 2011 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Qatar974

Hello Dear sisters and brothers, since I am Christian but study Islam and live it everyday in Qatar I will put my quote that I feel to be both truthful and spirit filled.  As a Chrisitian following the bible; There is but one God and then there is Jesus.  Jesus was more than a prophet but never will he be God.  It is too many times in the bible that Jesus tells his followers it is not me but the father.  Many Muslims and Christians fall prey to the devil trying to divided the two religions that both believe in one God.  As a Christian I was NEVER taught that Jesus was God in the flesh.  This is an outright lie!  Neither was I taught of the Trinity that there is God the father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  I was taught and still believe to this day that they are three separate entities.  Dear Muslims sisters and brothers, most Christians just like many Muslims are Christians by birth but do not read the bible nor the Quran so what they say should not be a representation of these faiths because they are without knowledge on the subjects.  The Christ was amazing because God made him Amazing and yes I do believe he is the son of God as there is no lineage he has no mother no father, you might say then well neither does adam but I say too ok (so what) Adam to is the son of God.  This in itself should not be the dividing line between Muslims and Christians.  The other thing that the devil continues to divide us on if Christ died on the cross.  This one I must admit still proplexes me, but I believe in the Gospel but if I am wrong or the Muslims are wrong then I too believe God will forgive as we have been misled.  Islam is a beautiful religion but I have not converted and don't plan to ever do so for the fact the Quran says that if you follow the Book(The Holy Bible) than you will go to paradise as well.  My husband is a born Arab Mulsim and his faith is one I practice with him while still openly practice my own faith and please dear brothers and sisters stop listening to heresay on what a Christian believes and find a practicing Christian that believes the bible not what they are being taught in the Church!
It is interesting that you call yourself a Christian, since one of the cardinal doctrines of Christianity is that God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost.  The Son became flesh in Jesus Christ.  So, you may call yo urself a Christian, but your beliefs are not Christian.


Posted By: Qatar974
Date Posted: 18 February 2011 at 12:23am
I am so sorry that you have not read the bible or understand the doctine of Christian since what you quote Anglicangal is from the Catholic Doctrine.  But it is ok I will pray for your knowledge and that you read the bible and ask God for revelation and discrenment.


Posted By: Empiricist
Date Posted: 07 March 2012 at 10:10pm
Anglicangal you have a wonderful spirit of love and peace.  We need more of this.  I cannot believe either that Christians must convert to Islam to be saved.  I don't think God intended this at all.  Man wrote this thinking it came from God.  Nothing by Man is perfect.  The Quran is written by Man.  It cannot be perfect.  If Man says it is the word of God, how does Man prove this?  He cannot.  Muhammed did not write the Quran.  Nor is the Bible perfect.  But the message by Jesus is there.  That is what is important.


Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 13 March 2012 at 8:45am
The Quran is written by Man. It cannot be perfect. If Man says it is the word of God, how does Man prove this?





My dear friend the statement that you make on the Quran, is false. That the Quran is written by Man.Here is the proof not by man but by the Almighty.



Quran. Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy (Q.4:82)



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