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Ali Vs The Prophet

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: Matters/topics, related to various sects, are discussed where only Muslims who may or may not belong to a sect take part.
Printed Date: 21 May 2018 at 8:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.04 -

Topic: Ali Vs The Prophet
Posted By: Mi4real
Subject: Ali Vs The Prophet
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 8:09am

As Salam Alukum

We all the Holy Prophet is best of creation but we have testimony from the Classical Shia Scholar Sheikh Saduk that Ali is equal in rank the Prophet.


Lets remember Shaikh *Saduq* who is ibn Babwayh Al Qummi, the teacher of Shaikh Al Mufid who is in turn the teacher of Sayyid Al Murtada i believe.

( 1 ) ( منزلة علي ( عليه السلام ) كمنزلة النبي ( صلى الله عليه وآله )

حدّثنا أبي رضى الله عنه، قال: حدّثنا عبد الله بن الحسين المؤدّب، عن أحمد بن عليّ الأصفهاني، عن محمّد بن أسلم الطوسي، قال: حدّثنا أبو رجاء عن حمّاد بن زيد، عن عبد الرحمن السرّاج عن نافع، عن ابن عمر قال: سألنا النبي صلّى الله عليه وآله عن علي بن أبي طالب عليه السلام؟ فغضب صلّى الله عليه وآله ثمّ قال:
ما بال أقوام يذكرون مَن منزلته مِن الله كمنزلتي? ألا ومن أحبّ عليّاً فقد أحبّني، ومن أحبّني فقد رضي الله عنه، ومن رضي الله عنه كافأه الجنّة.
ألا ومن أحبّ عليّاً لا يخرج من الدنيا حتّى يشرب من الكوثر، ويأكل من طوبى، ويرى مكانه في الجنّة.

My father related to us from Abdullah bin al-Hussein al-Mueddib from Ahmed bin Ali al-Isfahani from Mohammed bin Aslam at-Tusi from Abu Rajaa from Hemmad bin Zaid from Abdirrahman as-Sarraj from Nafii that Ibn Omar said: When we asked him about Ali bin Abi Talib, the Prophet (s) was angry and said:

Why do some people mention that one whose rank in the sight of Allah is as same as mine?

He who loves Ali loves me, and Allah will accept him who loves me, and whomever Allah accepts will be rewarded with Paradise. Whoever loves Ali will not depart this world before he drinks from the Divine River of Kawthar, eats from the Divine Tree of Tuba, and sees his place in Paradise. (Fadhailus Shia by Shaikh Saduq)

Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 11:04am

Did hazrat Ali bring anything new from Allah? If no, then how you compare the two as equal? and if yes, then what was the anew? Also, your quote "My father related to us from Abdullah bin al-Hussein al-Mueddib from Ahmed bin Ali al-Isfahani from Mohammed bin Aslam at-Tusi from Abu Rajaa from Hemmad bin Zaid from Abdirrahman as-Sarraj from Nafii that Ibn Omar said.........." do not provide the reference to the source of this chain of narrators. On the more, the last narrator (Nafii) did not link his source of this narration with ibn Omar. It just says that Ibn Omar said, but to whom? no one knows.

 Beside other weaknesses, this kind of narration seems to be just a snap shot of complete event, which has been specifically cut out of the whole picture to suit ones motive. Brother this is not a scholarly way of referring the evidence. Kindly provide the whole event, if you know of it.

Posted By: Mi4real
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 6:03pm

As Salam Alukum

It doesn't matter if Ali brought anything new to the religion or not, for years Shia's have denied that they believe that Ali (RA) is the same rank as the Prophet (SAW) even though we have numerous hadiths presented in Bihar Al-Anwar and other works of hadith to prove otherwise. My statements clearly prove that Sheikh Saduk one of the most eminent Shia Scholars believed this...he also had other dangerous beliefs which I will not get into, Secondly according to your Shia books of Rijal this hadith is ranked as "Hasan".

Rijaal an-Najashi, Abul-Abbas Ahmad bin Ali an-Najashi Naqd ar-Rijaal: Sayyid Mustafa at-Tafrushi
Qamoos ar-Rijaal: Allamah at-Tusturi

Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 5:36am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

this is funny, your both sunni

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 8:38am

So you mean, bro Rami, that bro Mi4real doesn't believe as what the  Sheikh Saduk says about. Hmm!! So why is he raising such a point without qualifying his own stance and yet he is responding to me as in negation? This is really strange.

Anyway, thanks for your clarification. I appreciate your concern.

Posted By: unity1
Date Posted: 05 August 2005 at 11:09am

Asalam Aalaikum,

Majority of the Shias donot believe that Ali(Ra) is equal to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh)in rank, if this narrative mentions such thing ,then that hadith should be put to test.


who call themselves superior are actually inferior in the eyes of Allah.Those who call themselves slaves of Allah are superior not only in the eyes of Allah but also superior in the eyes of man.

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