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Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe

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Printed Date: 20 April 2014 at 9:06am


Topic: Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe
Posted By: H3OO
Subject: Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 4:33am
matters.

SR

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Here is ahmedis  interpretation OF seal of prophets, Khataman Nabiyyeen.

They say Khatam is derived from the word Khatama which means sealed, stamped, impressed or imprinting the thing. This is the primary signification the this word. the secondary meaning is he reached the end of the thing, or covered the thing or protected what is in writhing by marking or stamping a piece of clay uopn it or by means of seal of any kind.

Khatam means a stamp, a seal or a mark.
(the purpose of a seal is not to close a statement but to certify it as correct. That is why often a seal is affixed to a document at its top and in other cases it is affixed at its bottom or at its end. Its purpose is to certify the genuineness and correctness of the contents of the document.)


The word also signifies embellishment and ornament ; the best and most perfect.
The words Khatim and khatm and khatam are almost synonymous.
So the expression Khatam would mean the seal of prophets, the best and the most perfect of the prophets, the embellishment and ornament of the prophets. secondarily it means the last of the prophets

Briefly according to meaning of Khatam given above, one  can have 3 possible meanings.

1.No prophet and his message can be regarded as true unless his prophethood bears
the  the seal of Holy prophet [pbuh]

2.The Holy prophet was the best, noblest and the most perfect of all the prophets and he was also a source of  embellishment  for them

3.The holy prophet was the last of the law bearing prophets



From the above interpretation of theirs, can u plz tell me how it
in any way effect the status of prophet (pbuh) or in any way disrespects him. what i can say is that this interpretation
further higher/raises his status, greatness than merely using the word Last. I ask u, how can above be any threat to islam or damaging to prophet(pbuh).



Replies:
Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 4:39am
it is only  their interpretation of the word seal of prophets/ Khataman Nabiyyeen that is different

So what crime is it if any faith differently interprets it.
is their any compulsion on them in interpreting the way they feel is true.
it definitely seems that we are putting some compulsion on them that they should only interpret the way we do and not use their own mind or they'll be hated. isnt it sir.

we see so many scholars wrongly interpreting islamic teachings that is causing great harm to islam but remain silent there but when an ahmedi group differently interpret something for which they also give some reasoning it still becomes such a big crime (even though there interpretation is in no way effecting islam in a negative way or badmouthing prophet [sa] or abusing quran)

Quran is a book of God but he has left it on us to understand it, interpret it and so if they want to understand it the they feel is true, what is wrong with that.
in the end its God who will decide whose interpretation is right or wrong.
we just need to learn to listen to each others point view, accept the one we feel is right and move on.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 4:46am

The Prophet of Ahmadiiya community stated with regrads to Holy prophet (pbuh)

The person who was above all, and was a perfect man, and a perfect prophet, and who came with the fullness of blessings, through whom, on account of his spiritual advent and the spiritual resurrection that he brought about, the first judgment manifested itself and a whole universe that was dead was revived, that blessed prophet Khatamul Anbiya, Leader of the elect, Katamul Mursileen, Pride of the Prophets was Muhammad Mustafa, peace and the blessings of Allah by upon him. (Itmamul Hujjah, p.28)

He claimed:

Allah is Glorious, Allah is Glorious; what a high station was that of the Khatamul Anbiya, the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Glory be to Allah, what high degree of light was his. (Braheen Ahmadiyya, p.246)

My belief that I hold in this life and with which, by the grace of Allah, I shall pass on from this world is that our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was Khataman Nabiyyeen and the best of Messengers. (Izala Auham, part I, p.137)

He declared:

I believe in the Khatam-i-Nabuwat of the Khatamul Anbjya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and consider one who denies the Khatam-i-Nabuwat as faithless and outside the pale of Islam. (Taqreer Wajabul llan, 1891)

He has stated:

My belief is that our Holy Prophet is better and more exalted than all the Messengers and is Khataman Nabiyyeen. (Ayenah Kamalat Islam, p.327)

He has declared:

I believe that our Holy Prophet, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is more exalted than all the Messengers and is the Khatamul Anbiya. (Hamamatul Bushra, p.8)

He has affirmed:

I believe truly and perfectly in the verse which says: 'But he was the Messenger of Allah and Khataman Nabiyyeen'. (Ek Ghati Ka Izala)

He has stated:

I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that I am not a disbeliever. My doctrine is that there is no one worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah . I believe concerning him that he was the Messenger of Allah and the Khataman Nabiyyeen. I affirm the truth of this statement with as many oaths as are the Holy names of Allah and as are the letters of the Holy Quran and as is the number of the excellencies of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. No belief of mine is contrary to the commands of Allah and His Messenger. He who imagines anything contrary to this labors under a mis-conception. (Karamatus Sadiqeen, p.25)


so its clear they do consider Prophet (pbuh) 

Khatamul Anbiya but just the difference of interpretation.




Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 4:53am
secondly the thing that they say that a prophet can come after prophet (pbuh).

what they say is that prophet (pbuh) is last law bearing prophet. no new prophet can come with a new law or book or abrogate the teachings of Prophet (pbuh).
the new prophet will not bring any new law or book but  propagate the teachings of islam, will be the follower/servant of prophet(pbuh) and propagate his teachings, clarify his teachings, get the real message of islam across us which surely we have lost as today seen  by numerous irrational interpretations of islam.

He will be be from his(sa) ummah and not bring any new religion Sharia. so it does make some sence and in no way is any threat to islam or against islam.



Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 20 September 2008 at 11:59pm
 
 Many Deobandi Maulvis i.e. like Ashraf Ali Thanvi sahib and some others had written in their translation of the Quran about Khatam an Nabiyeen as "Seal of the prophets"= Nabiuon ki Muhr. One of their founders of Deobandi school also wrote about it in a book that to translate "Last"  for Khatam is not a correct meaning. It is a very low level meaning, like a fat prophet or a tall prophet, we will have a last prophet.
 
 He said that this word Khatam is in praise of the prophet and last cannot have any praise.  The Imam of the Hadith, Imam Tirmidhi also said that to translate the word Khatam as the last prophet is the translation of the ignorant people.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 2:10am
Here is another point of view of ahmedis regarding different interpretation of the verse and also what the views are of different scholars with regard to Khatam-i-Nabuwat;
It is true, however, that the Ahmadiyya Community differs with some of the Muslim divines in the true meaning and interpretation of the relevant verse (33:41). The Ahmadis have firm faith in the verse itself and a difference of view regarding its meaning and interpretation does not import disbelief. In the history of Islam great Imams and divines have differed with each other in the matter of interpretation on several questions. Despite those differences they were all considered Muslims and are worthy of honor by all Muslims. Such Imams and high authorities have interpreted this particular verse (33:41) exactly as the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement has interpreted it. Will they all, God forbid, be held to be non-Muslims? It would be obviously unjust that if X interprets a verse in one way he should be held to be a Muslim but if Y interprets it in the same way, he should be held to be a disbeliever. We set out, by way of illustration, the interpretations of this verse (33:41) by some of the outstanding divines.

Hazrat Mulla Ali Qari (mercy of Allah be upon him), who died in 1014 A.H. and was a great research scholar and a master of Hanafi jurisprudence and was a great Imam, has stated in his book Mauzuat Kabir, with reference to the saying of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him:

Had Ibrahim (the Holy Prophet's infant son) survived, he would have been a true prophet, that if Ibrahim had survived and had become a prophet he would still have been a follower of the Holy Prophet; and he has interpreted the verse (33:41) as meaning that there would be no prophet after the Holy Prophet who would abrogate his law and who would not be one of his followers.


In the same way, Hazrat Shah Waliullah, Muhaddas of Delhi (mercy of Allah be upon him), who has been acclaimed as the Reformer of the 12th century of Islam, has stated in his book Tafheemat IIahiyyah:

    The prophets came to an end with the Holy Prophet, meaning that there can be no divinely inspired reformer after him who would be commissioned by Allah, the Glorious, with a new law.


    Hazrat Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) is reported as having said:

Say he was Khataman Nabiyyeen, but do not say that there will be no prophet after him. (Durre Manshur, Vol. V of Jalaludin Suyuti)


Hazrat Mohyuddin ibn Arabi has stated in his book, Futuhat Makkiyyah:

Prophethood will continue among men till the Judgment Day, though a new law is barred. Law is a part of prophethood.

Hazrat Imam Muhammad Tahir has stated in his book, Majmaul Bihar:

The saying of Hazrat Ayesha that Muslims should call the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, Khataman Nabiyyeen, but should not say that there would be no prophet after him, had reference to the advent of the Promised Messiah. The direction given by Hazrat Ayesha is not in contradiction with the hadees: 'There will be no prophet after me'; for the meaning of the Holy Prophet was that there would be no prophet after him who would abrogate his law.

Hazrat Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi (may Allah have mercy on him) Reformer of the second millennium, who is held in great honor, has stated:

The achievement by the followers of the Holy Prophet by way of obedience and inheritance of the excellencies of prophethood after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is not inconsistent with his being the Khatamar Rusul




Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 2:17am

Hazrat Mohyuddin ibn Arabi has stated in his book, Futuhat Makkiyyah:

Prophethood will continue among men till the Judgment Day, though a new law is barred. Law is a part of prophethood.

Hazrat Imam Muhammad Tahir has stated in his book, Majmaul Bihar:

The saying of Hazrat Ayesha that Muslims should call the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, Khataman Nabiyyeen, but should not say that there would be no prophet after him, had reference to the advent of the Promised Messiah. The direction given by Hazrat Ayesha is not in contradiction with the hadees: 'There will be no prophet after me'; for the meaning of the Holy Prophet was that there would be no prophet after him who would abrogate his law.

Hazrat Shaikh Ahmad Sirhindi (may Allah have mercy on him) Reformer of the second millennium, who is held in great honor, has stated:

The achievement by the followers of the Holy Prophet by way of obedience and inheritance of the excellencies of prophethood after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is not inconsistent with his being the Khatamar Rusul



Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 7:06pm
Why don't you share the story , infact intresting and beautiful  story, as how your messenger of Allah,{Ghulam Ahmed}  met his end {died}. Is that the type of death any messenger of Allah would meet ?
 
Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 22 September 2008 at 4:18am
 
  Dear H300,
 
 Thank you for posting something about the views of the old Ulema on the subject. It appears that nobody is interested in seeing the opinion of their own old time scholars. But it is information, if true.
 
  I was actually more interested in knowing if any one is supposed to come now in the Ummah and who is he? I believe that Jesus a.s. has died a natural death long ago and I believe that all prophets of God have died.  And I also believe that by a hadith, Isa ibne Maryam will surely come.
 
That Hadith is mentioned in both Bukhari and Muslim by the prophet by the oath of Allah. He said that Ibne Maryam will surely come to you (He was talking to the Sahabah). And that he will break the cross and kill the swine.
 
 Muslim people think that Jesus is alive, like the christians too believe that Jesus is alive. Both Muslims and christians  believe that Jesus is alive and he will coma back. According to Muslims,  to this Ummah to guide and help the Imam Mahdi a.s. According to christians to preach the christianity, the teachings of the church.
 
That Imam Mahdi will wage a bloody religious war (Jihad) against the Dajjal and Isa a.s. will come to help him and to kill the Dajjal.  Maudoodi had believed that Isa is alive and will come back to fight Dajjal. Maudoodi sahib even had a complete battle field arranged for Isa a.s. as per the words of some Hadith.
 
I am sure some one is still to come. But who is he? Ignore any harsh words please.
Thanks, mm


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 24 September 2008 at 3:44pm

Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.

Brother, let’s leave everything aside. And, also be very careful that our friend doesn't just run away this time. Once, he had fled after I asked him just a simple question: "if he had read any works by the great Prophet?"

Then our friend went missing for a while. I PM’d him, you know, we don’t leave any debts uncollected! He told me that he had read something by Mirza Tahir Ahmed, but nada of the interesting and exceptionally floral vocabulary classics of our great Aquarian friend from Qadiyaan!

I have read him and would advise anyone to read his books, they make great reading of by the civil court street oratory.

Our friend was then quite annoyed with us for looking at the Ahmadis with a bit of a sour eye. Bhai, now, it's for you to be just a bit fair and tell us if it's not just a bit of a tit for tat sort of a thing. They treat everybody and anybody other than their own lot as absolute Kafirs - just un kosher!

And the others have grown to treat them in the same stride.

Bhai, my problem is that if I asked him any questions he may just run away again. Can you please ask him what is all this propaganda in aid off? Does he want us to catch that bus now for Rabwah or is just trying to plaster something that might have appealed to his LOGIC?

Also please ask him if he is one of them?
 
Brother, now, I miss our good old Glub Pasha. We were also given a chance by the great Ingleesh to have our own Nabi in the same period, soon after the Qachaar wars. But you know these brutes, the Afghanis, they caught him and hung by a tree that even I was shown when I went there for a wedding on my very first visit.
 
Please ask him all the questions gently. I have to stand aside, just imagine, he thinks I am a bit of a Mullah, you don't need to tell him about my Ingleesh ischolling or about our terribly commnunist back ground. Keep quiet on all those other accounts about me, but please, just keep him here. It will be great fun, much greater than we had with Syed123.
Remeber?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 7:31am
 
 whisper, I do not understand what you are saying. Who is he? Who ran away? Who is Syed123? Who was your grand who had some dual with hazrat Mirza sahib? Was the dual at Lahore? Your grand must be a great celebrity.
 
 I believe Mirza Sahib claimed to be Imam Mahdi and also the Messiah who was promised by the prophet to appear in the Ummah. Is that right? You seem to be hailing from a grand house. But I would like to know if you had seen your grand. Welcome. Celebrate your survival.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 11:33am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

Why don't you share the story , infact intresting and beautiful  story, as how your messenger of Allah,{Ghulam Ahmed}  met his end {died}. Is that the type of death any messenger of Allah would meet ?
 
Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.
 
 



Im not causing any confusion.
 the purpose here was just to give the other side of the view.
No one here is asking anyone to accept or consider it true. it is only
to remove the misconceptions which has led to such hatred as we see today against ahmedis

we, all our life, have been listening to the one side of the story(often biased) from our  scholars and WE believed what ever they said without
actually trying to find out what they(ahmedis) actually say and not what our mullahs say.
so i have just tried to put here their opinions/interpretation
so that at least before deciding we know the other side of the story only then we can reach the right, the true decision.

and as ur name say, inorder to seek the true hidayath which u are here for, it is necessory to know ahmedis views from their mouth or books, only then one can form an objective unbiased opinion.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 11:49am
My Dear friend Whisper, dont worry about me running away and try to focus on the main issue which u are in a habit of ignoring.

 i'll just ask u again (that ive been asking all this thread)
 what in the above stated interpretation of ahmedis views
is  that is so insulting, abusive, degrading to islam or prophet[sa].


THis thread is a week old now and nobody has yet  answered this simple question, maybe just like u they dont have the anwsers and thats why u decided to waste ur energy in writing about me rather than answering this question. and then u blame me for running away.

as about me missing, i dont have have to disappear bcz of ur question.
1st i dont think i needed to answer ur that question since it was completely irrelevant to what i was saying as i never talked about claims of their prophet (before this thread) and about their being right or wrong.
I never  asked anyone to accept or consider it true.
The only thing i said was that no matter what they say/interpret, it is their belief (and remember they are not insulting islAm) and it is on us to respect them and their prophet as we demand respect from jews or christians for out own beleifs.

and any mature person who is the real follower of islam would easily understand this simple thing but it seems like it was too much for u to swallow, understand and u started making fuss out of nothing and then  blame me for calling u a mullah. but i can understand u are not the only one who has fell pray to satan, there are many.

Islam asks the believers not to abuse or look down up on other faiths or followers of other faiths.
Wouldn't u even listen  to  ur own God u believe in. Oh i forget u only like to believe but not follow.  sadly Thats where ur religions ends for u. I do hope  u dont keep hanging there all ur life and start to follow islam, it will definately enlighten u, brother.

Thirdly i have studied some of their prophet's claims  but have not  find anything yet abusive in his claims. I really doubt that u have studied his books and im talking about his orginal books and not what some of our scholars or websites say about what his claims are.
im sure atleast u can distinguish between the too. just ask any jew or christian about islam and im sure u'll not get a favourable reply.

and I am still studying but due to limited time as i have my own studies as well plus other things to do aswell, my speed is slow. why i dissapeared was bcz of my exams and i will again also as i again get busy in my daily life but dont make it an issue here.

and in the end as to ur question that whether im an ahemdi
no, im not one of them but it is that im not filled with hatred as u are.

and plz dont stand aside, u are most welcome and i'll be delighted
to know ur views as u seem to be very knowledgeable since u have read the books of their prophet so plz dont drive us of ur knowledge.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 2:18pm

whisper, I do not understand what you are saying. Who is he? Who ran away?

Yaar, our friend H300 or whatever had run away when I had posed a question the last time he had barged in with his trumpet.

Who is Syed123?

Remember the chap who had barged in, July 2007, crusading for our commander, Pervez Musharaf and I had appointed him my Morshed-in-Chief?

He said he was going away for a day or two after some of my and Hayfás posts. We have been waiting ever since.

No Show.

Who was your grand who had some dual with hazrat Mirza sahib? Was the dual at Lahore? Your grand must be a great celebrity.

B’fazle at’la, all my ancestors have been blessed by Him.

As I have mentioned, earlier, my grandfather had invited the great Hazrat Saheb for a Munazara (expose, debate) about his claims, but he never SHOWED UP though challenged a number of times.

In fact, he placed a contract on my grandfather’s head!

Some prophet!

My family or my deputies never briefed me on this. Abu al Asara Hafeez Jalandhary (the man who wrote National Anthem of Pakistan) narrated the events of that day to me when I was at college. Hafeez saheb and we were neighbours plus he was great friends with my father.

Let me please just repeat, to the best of what I have been told - Mirza saheb never showed up. Period.

I believe Mirza Sahib claimed to be Imam Mahdi and also the Messiah who was promised by the prophet to appear in the Ummah. Is that right?

My brother, Punjaub is a great land. The Punjaubi has never resisted an invader, they have ever been looking for new leaders / prophets the lot. Could you, please, count the number of Baluchi, Pathan or Sindhi Mirzais?

How any people in Uttar Pardesh or Bangla Desh have needed a new Once to be Knighted Nabi for them? (Thank Chaudhary Zafar Ullah Khan he stepped in for that Knighthood, instead) Why was the Empire trying to Knight some Nabi?



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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 2:29pm
Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.
 
Braderém, what else can a person who is so confused ever cause?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 2:31pm
H300
Before an answer to your Ahmedia advocacy, please state that are you well versed in everything Mirza G. Ahmed spoke & wrote?



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 2:35pm

My Dear friend Whisper, dont worry about me running away and try to focus on the main issue which u are in a habit of ignoring.

 
My friend, your assumptions make you so dear to us. They amuse us no end. I ignore nothing of substance, ever.

Yes, when someone barges in shouting at us, assuming that we are all some sons of Mullahs then we do take our positions and thoroughly enjoy our Nuevo Morshed-in-Chief.

Welcome, my friend, let’s see the whole tokra (basket) of assumptions. I know, you are prone to think that we are not an august house of the sort that we are and we don't have some extremely serious people here. Thats your assumption numero uno.

i'll just ask u again (that ive been asking all this thread) what in the above stated interpretation of ahmedis views is that is so insulting, abusive, degrading to islam or prophet[sa].'

Why should I switch on my exceptionally poor little Pathaan head for that? You are the one and the only enlightened chap here, why don’t you tell us just why do Ahmadis take everyone else to be Non-Kosher, Kufaars?

You have started the string, you better explain what we need!

THis thread is a week old now and nobody has yet answered this simple question, maybe just like u they dont have the anwsers and thats why u decided to waste ur energy in writing about me rather than answering this question. and then u blame me for running away.

Morshed, I told you we have none of your like, here. If we had the answers or, you could also say, if we were keen to respond to your assertions and bullying, would we be here?

The other problem is when someone, say, even like me, asks you something you just do a runner! You did not answer my question and now you just expect us all to form a que and only answer your questions and riddles?

1st i dont think i needed to answer ur that question since it was completely irrelevant to what i was saying as i never talked about claims of their prophet (before this thread) and about their being right or wrong.

My Morshed, please, don't say such things. These people are not as empty in their heads as you might have taken them to be. That question was NOT irrelevant. You just wish that it turned out to be irrelevant.

Just think, for no more than a moment and a half. If you are trying to promote someone even as a local bodies councillor, you have to qualify that person before your audience. Sir, here, you are promoting a whole Prophet! Am I not entitled to ask if you know him or his sayings, his writings?

I had asked you the most relevant question: have you read any of our great prophet’s works?

Do you expect me to raise all my faith and start treating Mirza G Ahmed as a prophet just for your word? Who are you? Some Gaad? How can you expect me just to take your word for it?

I never asked anyone to accept or consider it true.
The only thing i said was that no matter what they say/interpret, it is their belief (and remember they are not insulting islAm)

Really? That’s a great news for me.

I live in Model Town (Lahore) and around a good lot of Ahmadis - including the Royal Family - live in my neighbourhood. They believe I am Not Kosher. Anyone one who hasn’t pledged allegiance to Rabwa is just NOT KOSHER.

OK, they can not insult Islam openly but are they NOT insulting the rest of the Muslims?

and it is on us to respect them and their prophet

I love your mind. It is extremely open, so open that anything that falls into it gets mixed up with all the rest of the things. Does prophet hoods just drop for anyone to pick up or do we have to qualify to pass off as a Prophet?

as we demand respect from jews or christians for out own beleifs.

Yes. We have been their partners for far longer than you would imagine. They are people of the book. We have a huge long history with them and, as the Sikh might have said, more over, we share all our prophets with them.

and any mature person who is the real follower of islam would easily understand this simple thing but it seems like it was too much for u to swallow, understand and u started making fuss out of nothing and then blame me for calling u a mullah. but i can understand u are not the only one who has fell pray to satan, there are many.

Great Idea! You give yourself away with just one sentence

not the only one who has fell pray to satan
My absolutely innocent Morshed, CONVINCE me of Mirza’s prophet hood and I promise, I will join you immediately. I would love to, I will have all the advantages at hand, one of my childhood friend is married in the Royal Family!! he lives in Rabwa and also in Lahore Cantt.

Islam asks the believers not to abuse or look down up on other faiths or followers of other faiths.
I love you. You are my Morshed, but you do say certain things which are quite hard to swallow. What are you trying to tell me?

Come on, Sir, just one proof of prophet hood before we go on any further. My morshed, let me assure you of one thing in this forum, bullying doesn't work here. If you go on, soon a whole range of fine and educated people will be out. Just watch out Sign*Reader is already there!

Wouldn't u even listen to ur own God u believe in. Oh i forget u only like to believe but not follow. sadly Thats where ur religions ends for u. I do hope u dont keep hanging there all ur life and start to follow islam, it will definately enlighten u, brother.
Morshed, I am all yours. But just useless assertions don't work or fly. Just prove Mirza G Ahmed was a nabi or the promised Messeiha we will listen to you. Till you do that, you are just bullying us with your words and some of us do not take kindly to being bullied.

Thirdly i have studied some of their prophet's claims but have not find anything yet abusive in his claims. I really doubt that u have studied his books and im talking about his orginal books and not what some of our scholars or websites say about what his claims are.
Please get off that high horse. Lest we pull you down from it. Just proof of prophet hood plus what is so new that he is saying? Other than what suited the empire at that time.

just ask any jew or christian about islam and im sure u'll not get a favourable reply.
Assumption numero trente y tres (33) You may have been unlucky. All my Jewish and Christian friends have enlightened view of Islam. Through al-Andalus and Osmania Turkiye, the Jewsih and the Christian people had a beautiful collaboration, sorts of joint ventures with the Muslims.

They lived, worked and ruled together.


no, im not one of them but it is that im not filled with hatred as u are.
Assumption numero quarante y uno (41) what makes you feel we hate them? If I don‘t accept you as a Prophet when you claim to be one would that mean I hate you? Is it that if you don’t bait (accept) someone as a prophet you hate them?

and plz dont stand aside, u are most welcome and i'll be delighted
to know ur views as u seem to be very knowledgeable since u have read the books of their prophet so plz dont drive us of ur knowledge.

We can discuss only and if we agree to call him just Mirza saa’b. Period. Till you prove to us that he was a Prophet. By the way, prophets are not produced by the Lahore Arts Council, they are assigned by no less than Allah Kareem.

Get that straight and we will talk. Other than that it’s neither here nor there.

One last question, if he were such a prophet he would have accepted my grandfather’s challenge to a Munazara!! No?



-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 3:08pm
Before an answer to your Ahmedia advocacy, please state that are you well versed in everything Mirza G. Ahmed spoke & wrote?
Paa jee Zeenda Baad, now I don't feel alone and at sea. Gracias

-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 3:55pm
Bro Sasha:
Thanks for the good workThumbs%20Up
I guess I don't need to waste any time on this Troll of the Royal House of Treason!

A sidebar: Just tell me what is with these Aquariuses  Mirza/ the knighted Amir  of his group Zafarxxxx? Where do they get all the ideas?
Enlighten me pl.


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 11:52pm

 

 Post for whisper:

 Thanks for the detailed reply. I have understood most of it. But you did not answer one question, about seeing your grand. Anyhow, He must be resting in the beautiful place near the Capital. Is it so? Thanks. Let me know please. mm



-------------
If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:09am
My dear friends whisper and S*R, u are just trying to twist things here and there and have still not answered the question which is the main purpose of thread. Plz answer it and explain why they cannot be considered a sect of islam when they follow all the pillars of islam and other islamic teachings (quran and hadith) and when they consider prophet[sa] Khataman Nabiyyeen. Then why is it this so much hatred that they are also labeled murtad or fitna by some scholars just bcz of different interpretations.

and whisper im not talking about u hating them, im talking about the general muslim world labelling them fitna, murtad, created by British Govt or jews (as S*R called them), calling their prophet bad names. isnt this all a sign of hatred.
Thats what im talking about. if they were respected
as are other sects of islam  and not labelled as such , i dont think i would have been here defending them. I never talked about there prophet being right or wrong (thats another question), my topic was completely different, but if u want to understand.
I hope that makes the point clear.

So Plz dont ignore the main topic and give reasons.
thanks.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:16am
and also still no one has given any answer as to how the ahmedis views on page 1 are harm or insulting to islam.

Secondly if we consider their prophet not to be true but they consider him true so just respect them for their beliefs. Why does it bother us. Its just like the mushriks at the the time of prophet[pbuh] who were bothered by him[sa] and they insulted him[sa]. I dont find any difference here. are we repeating the history. so dont go here and there and answer the main question.

and i answered in detailed the post of S*R(in essence of disbelief) here but seems like he dont have anything to come up with yet.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:37am
Originally posted by Whisper

One last question, if he were such a prophet he would have accepted my grandfather’s challenge to a Munazara!! No?


1st i dont know why u keep on  bringing  ur grand pa. i mean how can i trust him that whatever he is saying is true.

Maybe he just wanted to impress his Grand children. Maybe he had some enmity with them and so deliberately tried to bring them down by making up things or maybe it was just the hatred as we see today in many. sorry i know he is ur Grand pa, u love him but i have consider a lot of things before considering any ones authenticity.

i dont believe in most of todays scholars so how can i in ur grand pa.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:54am
Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by Whisper

One last question, if he were such a prophet he would have accepted my grandfather’s challenge to a Munazara!! No?


1st i dont know why u keep on  bringing  ur grand pa. i mean how can i trust him that whatever he is saying is true.

Maybe he just wanted to impress his Grand children(which looks like he succeeded inWink). Maybe he had some enmity with them and so deliberately tried to bring them down by making up things or maybe it was just the hatred that made him or his colleagues make up things inorder to mislead people or maybe he lost the Munazara but is trying to cover it up. sorry i know he is ur Grand pa, u love him but i have consider a lot of things before considering any ones authenticity.

i dont believe in most of todays scholars so how can i in ur grand pa.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 4:21am
Originally posted by H3OO

My dear friends whisper and S*R, u are just trying to twist things here and there and have still not answered the question which is the main purpose of thread. Plz answer it and explain why they cannot be considered a sect of islam when they follow all the pillars of islam and other islamic teachings (quran and hadith) and when they consider prophet[sa] Khataman Nabiyyeen. Then why is it this so much hatred that they are also labeled murtad or fitna by some scholars just bcz of different interpretations.

and whisper im not talking about u hating them, im talking about the general muslim world labelling them fitna, murtad, created by British Govt or jews (as S*R called them), calling their prophet bad names. isnt this all a sign of hatred.
Thats what im talking about. if they were respected
as are other sects of islam  and not labelled as such , i dont think i would have been here defending them. I never talked about there prophet being right or wrong (thats another question), my topic was completely different, but if u want to understand.
I hope that makes the point clear.

So Plz dont ignore the main topic and give reasons.
thanks.
You sound like a juvenile you need to get some adult guidance!

There is no respect for any who makes a sect in Islam: In the west I could create anew religion and they will just love it! The satan nurtures the western mind and it tells to do all things unislamic!

There is only one religion of Prophet and that is ahle sunnah wal Jammah!
I will quot a couple of the ayas in this regard:
Maryam (Mary)

19:69 Then shall We certainly drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against ((Allah)) Most Gracious.

42:14 And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves.
If you are not already an Ahmedi say asthagfar for all your stuff!
You earning -ve points in Ramadan trying to plead something that doesn't need your pleading cuz they are not even a sect they are outside Islam! They are not permitted to use Islamic title in Muslim countries! Only in the western countries are thier protector!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 4:57am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by H3OO

My dear friends whisper and S*R, u are just trying to twist things here and there and have still not answered the question which is the main purpose of thread. Plz answer it and explain why they cannot be considered a sect of islam when they follow all the pillars of islam and other islamic teachings (quran and hadith) and when they consider prophet[sa] Khataman Nabiyyeen. Then why is it this so much hatred that they are also labeled murtad or fitna by some scholars just bcz of different interpretations.

and whisper im not talking about u hating them, im talking about the general muslim world labelling them fitna, murtad, created by British Govt or jews (as S*R called them), calling their prophet bad names. isnt this all a sign of hatred.
Thats what im talking about. if they were respected
as are other sects of islam  and not labelled as such , i dont think i would have been here defending them. I never talked about there prophet being right or wrong (thats another question), my topic was completely different, but if u want to understand.
I hope that makes the point clear.

So Plz dont ignore the main topic and give reasons.
thanks.

19:69 Then shall We certainly drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against ((Allah)) Most Gracious.




Do u even read what u write. where have they shown any rebellion
against God or his prophet. where have they created a new religion.
Dont they follow quran and hadith, follow 5 pillars of islam, accept all prophets and their books, recite Kalma.
act sensible and read the 1st few post of this thread and tell me where they have they created a new religion.

They clearly state that no new prophet can come with a new law, book, or religion.
whoever will come will be the servant, follower of prophet [sa] and will
propagate his teachings. so where in here is there any reference to the creation of a new religion.
So plz get a clue and dont make assertions on basis of what u have hear from here and there and start reading more about them bcz clearly u havent


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:09am
There is no respect for any who makes a sect in Islam:
Really? Are u sure about that. I guess islam was already divided into many sects before they emerged. U must belong to some sect too.

And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves.
Are u sure this is being referred to ahmedis bcz to my knowledge there are plenty of sects in islam and  We definitely do witness a lot of envy between them specially  shia and sunnis. Im sure u are aware of that.

You earning -ve points in Ramadan trying to plead something that doesn't need your pleading cuz they are not even a sect they are outside Islam!
are u sure about that. Will God punish me for spreading love, for removing misconceptions that lead to such hatred against them, against a sect that follows islam, that is not harming anyone, is peacefully spreading the message of islam, prophet[sa]. If u really thinks so then u have really misunderstood ur God and u really need to revive ur thoughts as do many.


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:12am
 
  I do not believe the Ahmadis are Kafirs. It is the ignorance of the maulvis that they want to use the word Kafir for Ahmadis.
 
 There are two types of enemies of Islam. One is internal enemy. That is called the Munafiq. The other is the external enemy who does not accept Islam. They are kafirs.
 
 The Ahmadis do not reject islam. So at the most the maulvis could have called the Ahmadis as Munafiq. That would have been alright and good enough. But to press ahead to call them Kafir was sign of ignorance.
 
 There is a Hadith:
 
 Any one who recites the Kalimah and faces the Qiblah (Ka'abah) and eats from our food is a Momin. There is a guarantee for his safety from Allah and the Prophet. So, O, you, Muslims, do not ever violate (break) that guarantee.
 
 It is seen that Ahmadis recite the Kalimah (even though they are forbidden to do so by order of the government in Pakistan). They face the Qiblah. They eat from the food of Muslims. All three conditions are satisfied.
 
 The above were the words of the prophet s.a.w.s. They should be respected. Maudoodi sahib tried hard to have the Ahmadis declared as non-Muslims, But he never called them Kafir. I do not know why. Perhaps due to the Hadith that I have quoted above.


-------------
If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 5:26am
Thanks mm for giving this hadith. It just makes it clear that (as i also said to whisper) that it is the order of God and not me to respect others faith no matter what their prophet claims bcz that is their belief. but in this case they are not introducing any new religion, neither abusing any islamic teachings or acting against islam but follow all islamic teachings as we do


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 9:33am

 Muhammad is last and final prophet and messenger of Allah.Any one who does not believe in it he is not muslim.

 Visit http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/finality_of_prophethood/index.htm - Finality of Prophethood By Maulana Maududi

 


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 10:08am

1st i dont know why u keep on bringing ur grand pa. i mean how can i trust him that whatever he is saying is true.

My dear Morshed jee, you think that anyone who happens to be on this site just has some second hand broken down gradfathers? Just because you have one like that?
 
My son, my grandfather was not just some man, he was almost a historiv event like the rest of my ancestors. He was not some fake or a Number two of something like the Nabo you are trying to promote here.
 
I and all my grandfathers' 3 or 4 million followers have far greater regards for my grandpa than the Nabi you are trying to promote, by just barking your assertions at us. He was a Man of Knowledge, not some Mullah.
 
HE ASKED YOUR CROOKED NABI TO A MUNAZARA - your great Nabi ran away instead of facing him and his deputies. Do you understand what that means? Or you want me to make you understand it in some better way?

Instead, your Nabi placed a contract on my grandfather’s head.

I am asking you just the once, give us the proof of his prophet hood instead of barking at us like some juvenile delinquent.

You may or may not believe in anything, just GIVE US THE PROOF of your assertions or we do have the ways to shut the hell out of you.



-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 Muhammad is last and final prophet and messenger of Allah.Any one who does not believe in it he is not muslim.

 Visit http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/finality_of_prophethood/index.htm - Finality of Prophethood By Maulana Maududi

 
 
  The book mentioned is not the right type of book. It has many fallacies and gradual development against Ahmadis without naming them. It does not deal with the subject of life and death of Isa a.s.
 
 It also does not deal with the Wahi after the prophet Muhammad s.aw.s. Maudoodi sahib did not believe in any Wahi (or News) after the prophet s.a.w.s He believed that Imam Mahdi will come before Isa  a.s. There will be a war scene and Isa a.s. who is now alive in heavens, he will descend and will help Imam Mahdi to kill Dajjal.
 
 Maudoodi sahib believed that Imam Mahdi will not know himself that he was the Imam Mahdi. In his other books, he wrote that Islam was spread by sword.
 
 It is said that there is no prophet after Muhammad.  Also they say that there is no Wahi after the prophet now. But it is believed that Isa a.s. will come as a prophet. And he will have Wahi. So there is some proof of a prophet after Muhammad and some proof of Wahi too.
 
 It is all so complicated. It appears that whisper is trying to threaten the other guy whom he thought that he ran away. Perhaps he wants him to run away. Better not try like that. Be calm as much as possible.


-------------
If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 1:24pm
It is all so complicated. It appears that whisper is trying to threaten the other guy whom he thought that he ran away. Perhaps he wants him to run away. Better not try like that. Be calm as much as possible.
 
My dear and most loveable friend, I am not threatening anyone at all. I am no George Bush. I am just asking this and any other chap who is trying to establish some brand new Nabis (that includes you as well) just for the proof of his Prophet Hoods.
 
Prophet hood comes with some internationally recognised divine signs. Give me the proof of Mirza G Ahmed, Katchri wala's prophethood and I am all yours.
 
Kindly just understand that.
I had asked this man just one question and he had disappeared from this Forum. This is not just one of those matters that you give up and forget about the offender. I PMéd him. 
 
Plus, I know how and why suddenly Empire sponsored prophets just sprinkled across in Iran, Afghaistan ansd India soon after the Qachaaar wars.  My friend, you know me, your chap can't just bark his assertions at me and expect me into submission. I want exact proof of Mirza's prophethood before this chap barks another word at me.
 
Not a word less than that PROOF will do.
Maulana Maudoodi, his books or no books. I just want the proof of the Nabi being forced upon us, here.
 
Do I make myself clear? I may just be a Socialist sort of a half caste Muslim BUT when it comes to such fitna I stand up with my claws.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 1:37pm
Be calm as much as possible
Brother I will be very calm, I am tranquil. But if even if you wish to establish anyone, even me, as a Nabi, I will want PROOF and nada less than that. No words, no more assertions and long discussions, JUST the proof of Prophet Hood.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 1:47pm
Yaar Minuteman please just find out has he run away again or is just having a siesta?

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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 
  The book mentioned is not the right type of book. It has many fallacies and gradual development against Ahmadis without naming them. It does not deal with the subject of life and death of Isa a.s.
 
 It also does not deal with the Wahi after the prophet Muhammad s.aw.s. Maudoodi sahib did not believe in any Wahi (or News) after the prophet s.a.w.s He believed that Imam Mahdi will come before Isa  a.s. There will be a war scene and Isa a.s. who is now alive in heavens, he will descend and will help Imam Mahdi to kill Dajjal.
 
 Maudoodi sahib believed that Imam Mahdi will not know himself that he was the Imam Mahdi. In his other books, he wrote that Islam was spread by sword.
 
 It is said that there is no prophet after Muhammad.  Also they say that there is no Wahi after the prophet now. But it is believed that Isa a.s. will come as a prophet. And he will have Wahi. So there is some proof of a prophet after Muhammad and some proof of Wahi too.
 
 It is all so complicated. It appears that whisper is trying to threaten the other guy whom he thought that he ran away. Perhaps he wants him to run away. Better not try like that. Be calm as much as possible.


 Response to minuteman

 I am not interested in your cheap lies.I already have read commentary of Quran 'Tafheem ul Quran' in Urdu language by Maulana Maududi where he comprehensively touched this point at the end of tafssir(commentary) of Surah 33.

 Let me quote the links Note:You will read it in Urdu Language:

  http://maududi.org/udata/work/tafheemulquran/online/vol4/Vol4_138.gif - http://maududi.org/udata/work/tafheemulquran/online/vol4/Vol4_138.gif
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Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 3:55pm

 Response to minuteman

 If any body himselfherself want to read commentary of Quran in Urdu language written by Maulana Maududi then click http://maududi.org/tafheemulquran/readonline.php - here

 Now i am going to present 'Fimality of Prophet Muhammad' in English language:

  http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/finality_of_prophethood/index.htm - Finality of Prophethood By Maulana Maududi
  http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546824 - Finality of Prophethood By http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml - www.islamonline.net
  http://irshad.org/finality/proof.php - A Proof of the Finality of Prophethood
  http://www.islaam.org/Finality/Finality-1.htm - The Finality of Prophethood
  http://www.irshad.org/finality/interpretation.php - The Interpretation of well-Known Muslim Scholars on The  Finality of Prophethood.
  http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=33&tid=41783 - Finality of Prophethood By Famous Mufassir http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir - Ibn Kathir
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546824 -  


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by seekshidayath

Why don't you share the story , infact intresting and beautiful  story, as how your messenger of Allah,{Ghulam Ahmed}  met his end {died}. Is that the type of death any messenger of Allah would meet ?
 
Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.
 
 



Im not causing any confusion.
 the purpose here was just to give the other side of the view.
No one here is asking anyone to accept or consider it true. it is only
to remove the misconceptions which has led to such hatred as we see today against ahmedis

we, all our life, have been listening to the one side of the story(often biased) from our  scholars and WE believed what ever they said without
actually trying to find out what they(ahmedis) actually say and not what our mullahs say.
so i have just tried to put here their opinions/interpretation
so that at least before deciding we know the other side of the story only then we can reach the right, the true decision.

and as ur name say, inorder to seek the true hidayath which u are here for, it is necessory to know ahmedis views from their mouth or books, only then one can form an objective unbiased opinion.
 
Alhamdullilah, am been associated to an organisation, who  are into dawah at those rural areas, where these Qadiaynis crept in. Alhamdullilah, we were able to stray them away and made those poor , ignorant village chaps, recite the shahadah again. We do all these not just by explaining them of Qur'an and the last Prophet, but also read out those false books .
 
Anyways, i shall not move on, untill u  prove, brother {whisper} 's claim.
 
And yes, i was helping you to propogate Qadiyanism. U did not write , i mean did not share, as how Mirza Ghulam, met his death. Let the readers read out how he met his death. Else Insha Allah, if time permits, i shall share it tomorrow.
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 7:14pm
 
 
 You are advertising Maudoodi un-necessarily. Would you allow me to present anything? I have also read the tafseer myself, in fact, more than you. There is nothing spiritual in it. But it is written in better style Urdu. I should say free style where Maudoodi sahib took much liberty with the language. That is all.
 
 If you have read the Tafseer then give your opinion on the three points by way of Maudoodi sahib as follows:
 
 1. Is there going to be any kind of prophet after prophet Muhammad?
 2. Is there going to be any kind of Wahi/Ilham after prophet Muhammad?
 3. Is Isa a.s. alive now  and has not yet died? (mind you read page 420 of the Tafseer volume 1.)
 
 These are the points that you should have enlightened every one with your knowhow. Not to advertise anything here. It is possible that you have learnt nothing from the books of Maudoodi sahib.
 
 So please mind about 1. Any prophet after our Prophet Muhammad?
2. Any kind of Wahi/Ilham in these days.  3. Life and death of Hazrat Eisa a.s.
Just discuss these from your point of view. That will help to understand the subject under discussion.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 7:20pm
What do you want minuteman ? Were u expecting from us to sing songs in his favour. When a false messenger, is proved false,
 
In his other books, he wrote that Islam was spread by sword."
 
Just quote that book, or share those lines wherein he {Maulana Maududi } said so.
 
Do u know what do they say ? They say that Isa AS {Jesus}   will not descend from heavens because he never went to heavens; rather he went to Kashmir, where he died at the age of 120
 
This was just one extract of there views. Infact that Mirza, wrote one full book over this view. Now, u as a muslim answer these questions.
 
1. DO u believe, Isa AS, died
2. Did u read anywhere in Qur'an and Sunnah, that Isa AS, visited India, that too Kashmir. { It would be a uniting factor for us - indo-pak} Smile
3. They say that Isa AS, never ascended to heavens, Then where he is. Nauzbillah, in Kashmir, or around the Kabah of Qadiyanis, which i heard is in Punjab.
4. Isa AS lived for 120 years. Prove it?
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 7:31pm

"Can Ahmedis/Qadiyanis answer" - by Illiyas Sattar.

Minuteman read that. You seem to be in favour of those people na ! Infact, we are still softer against those people who are followers of that  false messenger. Do u know how was Musaylamah, a false apostate killed, when Prophet {pbuh} was in his last days ? Why did n't people accept him as  , so called messenger, and why did n't our Prophet {Pbuh} made any prophecy then, that  any such messenger shall be coming ? He prophecised of Imam Mehdi, but he did not say that he shall be a prophet. Prophet {saws}  did clearly prophecised of all the happenings till qiyamah as well. He did prophecise of coming of Isa AS, Imam Mehdi, all the signs of the hour, the fitnahs that would rise.

 
Anyways, read this :
 
Is Adam (pbuh) still alive? Did Mirza Sahib die at the age of 30?

"There is another important statement by the Holy Prophet. During his last illness, the Holy Prophet said to his daughter Fatima: ‘Once a year Gabriel used to recite the Quran to me. This year he recited twice. He also told me that every succeeding Prophet has lived up to half the age of his predecessor. He told me that Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. Therefore, I think, I may live to about 60 years."


(Invitation to Ahmadiyyat (Da’awat-ul-Ameer), p.17)

Based on this formula, some of the future prophets (if at all there are some, and there should be at least three of them if you accept the Qadiani interpretation of the verse of Khatme-Nabuwwat) will have following ages:


Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani ??? 30 years old

Next assumed prophet 15 years old

Next assumed prophet 7 and half years old…and so on.

So according to the extract on page 17 taken from "Invitation to Ahamadiyyat", Hazrat Adam (pbuh) should have lived up to 122880 years. Which means that he is still alive. In fact, even Hazrat Sheesh, Noah, Abrahim and Ismail (pbut) should all be alive now. Furthermore, if Mirza Sahib is a prophet, he should have died at the age of 30 only, that is half the age of the previous Prophet. Did Mirza Sahib become Prophet after his death? Still more interesting, if Prophets will continue to come, then just a few Prophets down the line we would be having one who is a newborn!! This statement of the Holy Prophet (SAAW), if at all authentic, clearly means that there will no Prophet after Hazrat Muhammad (SAW), because the next Prophet will have to die at the age of 30 and the next at 15 which means he will not even be an adult.

Now, i wish to ask our member H300 - if he had read there books. Am thankful to Allah swt, that H300 still mentions Ahmedis as "they", not as "our"  or " we".



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 11:12pm

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=54219&FID=29 - seekshidayath
Senior Member
Allah Kareem aapko lambi zindagi ata farm aye. (May God grant you a long life)

I love my friend Minuteman and every single minute of the day. I also love his recipe. Please look at his generosity, he is turning us ALL into nabis. Be honest yaar when did you have such a chance before in your life?

Why not just relax and become a freshly cut Nabi? Yaarém if they can pass around anyone, say, our good old Eshtamp Farosh of Zila Kutchery (District courts stamp vendor) as nabi just because he had some bad dream and a crafted a few fables about Hazrat Issa Alah e Islam without any authentication whatsoever then my brother we are all Nabis - just if we have some bad dreams and call these Wahis!

Our Geroge Bush must be the Nabi-in-Chief because he is having all sorts of khofnaak (scary) dreams of all shades at this moment of time.

Yaar, can't you understand that it's just a joke. We need not display our powers of reasoning with our friends, here. We need not even take them for serious. If they can peddle Mirza G Ahmed as Nabi without any divine signals, signs, proof then my brother all of us are nabis.
 
Minuteman is already one as he has tuned into the greatest authority on Maudoodo saheb, suddenly since this H300 has started to bark orders at us like some Sargeant Major of some British regiment that has been badly damaged in Afghanistan!

My friend, let‘s laugh and celebrate our friends absolute innocence. I have been asking them for proof for the last so many days. The chap has flown the nest like he did the last time I had asked him a plain simple question.

Plus, yaar, a man (I won’t call him my grandfather just because these folks thinks that anyone who comes to a place that they visit must be having just some second broken down sort of a grandfather like theirs!) Anyway, my friend, this man invited Mirza G Ahmed (Eshtamp Farosh) for a Munazara when he had declared that he had wahi and was a Nabi. He never turned up. Once, twice and then also the third time. He put a contract on this man’s head. Paid someone to get “rid of this man” in Hoshyaar Pur!

What a great Al-Capone like Nabi?

Let's forget about books and reasoning. These people can afford to bark you down like anything. JUST ASK FOR THE PROOF OF NABI HOOD. PERIOD


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 11:39pm

I have said it a few times before in plain and simple words. And, I say it again, openly and without any fear of whatsoever, specially the fasle Nabi Inc putting a price on my head like they had done on my grand father's when he had invited your Nabi for a Munazara!

If you like to market some brand new nabis, please, put these up with all the neccessary Manufacturing Certification and absolute divine proof of their Nabi Hood. Just having some bad dream or a few fables on anything does NOT turn any Tom, Dick or Harry into a nabi.
 
Just plain simple absolute proof or prophethood and withoutthat that please don't bark your assertions at us in useless arguments or futile points.
 
Just plain simple proof. Okay?


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 3:02am
 whisper, you have not told me i fyou ever saw your grand. i aske dyou a few times.
 Now about Ilyas Sattar sahib, he is a fraud. He was looking for some place amongst well known people. So the best thing he saw after a few unsiccessful trial to change his modus operandi. he felt that the opposition of Ahmadis was a quick ticket to success. He challenged the Ahmadis a few times in different manner without any good result.
 
 If you are not familiar with him then I will tell afew things soon. But about your grand? ( I have to appear before the court of Seeks first. I have to answer a few direct questions.)


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 3:14am
 
  Whisper, you have posted, probably some one else's material. That is all wrong. Ilyas Sattar is, as one of my friends who met him said that he is ( I forgot the Urdu word he used, but meaning was "dsiturbed mind".) But we say that he is good man tries to indulge in religious debates.
 
 Now please note about that Hadith given by you, narrated by Hazrat Fatima r.a. about the prophets having half the age.... If you are not joking then tell me do you believe in that Hadith. That  is my question to you and to S*R and to Seeks. Please all reply. Do you believe as that Hadith is authentic, or not. thanks. That Hadith about Jibreel a.s. visiting the prophet every year in ramadhan and reviving the Quran....


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 3:15am
Dear whisper u are again bringing in ur grand pa here. I have pretty clearly mentioned  the doubts i have about him. I live in this world and i know the type of people live around. I know the false propaganda that is being spread in the name of islam, in the name of being knowledgeable just to put down others or achieve ones own mission and most fall trap to it bcz of ignorance or bcz of love/attachment they have for the scholars as u have for ur grand pa but i'll not fall for it bcz it a serious issue and i cant just believe in anyones grand pa regarding such an important issue.and similarly its my request to all here not believe in stories as such. Im sure Allah will inquire  us of  where did we left our mind(intellect) when blindly accepting such a story.

secondly u keep on asking for proofs of his prophethood but tell me where did i mentioned in this thread or somewhere else that he is a true  prophet (though i also also did not said that he is wrong as uptill now whatever ive studied dont seems to be in any way against islam and am still in process), where did i said that his claims are true. where did i say that  we all should believe in him. My question was totally different.
read again the 1st two posts of page 3 of this thread and answer those questions.

im tired of saying this again and again but i dont know how will u understand it. I again repeat that i have just asked that what is it in the ahmedis interpretation stated on page 1 of this thread that so much angers us muslims that force us to label them fitna or creation of British govt. what is it that is so abusive or insulting to islam that we cant stop badmouthing there prophet?. when they are the followers of islam and are peacefully  propagating the teachings of islam and this hatred can be witnessed by the language u and some of ur fellows are using in this thread

so u have still not answered this simple question. plz answer this question sensibly instead of blackmailing and use decent words.
thanks




Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 3:53am
Originally posted by seekshidayath

Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by seekshidayath

Why don't you share the story , infact intresting and beautiful  story, as how your messenger of Allah,{Ghulam Ahmed}  met his end {died}. Is that the type of death any messenger of Allah would meet ?
 
Don't try to cause confusions by playing with the words of Qur'an with your own interpretations.
 
 



Im not causing any confusion.
 the purpose here was just to give the other side of the view.
No one here is asking anyone to accept or consider it true. it is only
to remove the misconceptions which has led to such hatred as we see today against ahmedis

we, all our life, have been listening to the one side of the story(often biased) from our  scholars and WE believed what ever they said without
actually trying to find out what they(ahmedis) actually say and not what our mullahs say.
so i have just tried to put here their opinions/interpretation
so that at least before deciding we know the other side of the story only then we can reach the right, the true decision.

and as ur name say, inorder to seek the true hidayath which u are here for, it is necessory to know ahmedis views from their mouth or books, only then one can form an objective unbiased opinion.
 

 
And yes, i was helping you to propogate Qadiyanism. U did not write , i mean did not share, as how Mirza Ghulam, met his death. Let the readers read out how he met his death. Else Insha Allah, if time permits, i shall share it tomorrow.
 
 


Plz read my above reply to whisper (1st para relating to his grand pa) and i hope u will find the answer there.

Im sure u are aware of what people can do in enmity, in hatred.

I can paste here no. of websites in which one will be shocked to hear what the non muslims associate with prophet[pbuh], the things we cannot even imagine but u know it shows the nature of human being that in hatred they become so much blind that they forget all there moral limits. but definitely that doesnt mean we accept it as true or do we?

so plz do not give any importance to such things, these all are the voice of devils, the devil inside the man. God show them the right path. amen
This is the true Hidayath and many needs it.
am sure any good person who in true follow islam will not reject it.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 7:12am

Seeks hidayat and every one else.

Just plain simple one thing. It's no use wasting our energies with these two. We will talk with them ONLY when they produce PROOF of their beloved prophet's prophethood. Period.

It's futile to indulge in any of their games. They are both gamsters, fradulent posters.



-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 7:17am
Whisper, you have posted, probably some one else's material. That is all wrong. Ilyas Sattar is, as one of my friends who met him said that he is (I forgot the Urdu word he used, but meaning was "dsiturbed mind".) But we say that he is good man tries to indulge in religious debates.
 
Thatis neither here nor there, Munuteman, just post PROOF of your chap's Nabawat and I will talk with you. Till then no parleys. 
 
Now please note about that Hadith given by you, narrated by Hazrat Fatima
 
What hadith? Have you ever seen me in my entire career here to quote anything from the Quran or Hadith. STOP condusing the readers. Just PROOF of your chap's prophethood or no talk.
 
You and H300 are sheer fraudsters as long as you do not provide us exact proof of your Nabi's nabawat.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 7:38am
Dear whisper u are again bringing in ur grand pa here. I have pretty clearly mentioned  the doubts i have about him. I live in this world and i know the type of people live around. I know the false propaganda that is being spread in the name of islam, in the name of being knowledgeable just to put down others or achieve ones own mission and most fall trap to it bcz of ignorance or bcz of love/attachment they have for the scholars as u have for ur grand pa but i'll not fall for it bcz it a serious issue and i cant just believe in anyones grand pa regarding such an important issue.and similarly its my request to all here not believe in stories as such. Im sure Allah will inquire  us of  where did we left our mind(intellect) when blindly accepting such a story.
 
Get off that high horse and stop dearing me.
I have no desire to be deared by the likes of you. I have plenty of people to dear me. In fact millions of them.
 
The fact is plain and simple. Don't try your smart ass techniques to confuse my point. THIS NABI OF YOURS WAS CALLED UP FOR A DUEL
- YES, BY MY DIRECT GRAND FATHER - AND THIS MAN DID NOT APPEAR FOR THE MUNAZARA TO DEFEND HIS OWN PROPHETHOOD.
 
Do you want witnesses to that effect? I would not be surprised to find some of our followers even living in Switzerland. They teach you a good lesson for being a rude idiot.
 
I am talking pure simple history. You may live in this world, Where the **** do you think we all live? Fraudster stop barking at us as if we are of your ilk.
 
You have been calling him Hazrat and anbi. PROVIDE ME PROOF OF YOUR ASSERTIONS OR WE WILL SHUT THE HELL OUT OF YOU.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 7:52am
Dear whisper u are again bringing in ur grand pa here.
 
I will bring my grandfather 220 times here. He was far more respectable and learned than the fraud you are promoting asa nabi here.
 
Kunad hum jinse b'hum jins parwaaz
Kabootar b a kabootar - baaz b'baaz
- in short; birds of a feather flock together.
 
You don't like the mention of my grand father EXACTLY as much as your Prophet didn't like it! he never showed up and you don't even want his name mentioned.
 
Are you that afraid of the EXACT TRUTH?
That you are even scared about the mention of someone who played a relevant part in the HISTORY of your Fake Nabi?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 7:58am
Shall I make you understand in Punjaubi?
Oye chore de puttar boriya bistar chook ke tay bhaj jaj. Jay Pathaan bhooter gaya tay pher ent koi na ho si.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 8:01am
 There  is clear fraud here. That post regarding the age of Hazrat Eisa a.s. has been removed. In that Ilyas Sattar was discussing the age of the prophets. A Hadith was mentioned too from Hazrat Fatima about Jibreel a.s. visiting the prophet during Ramadhan.
 
 All that has disappeared from the forum. Who is doing that? And why it has been removed and now whisper is being clever that he never put up any Hadith. That sure is a great sign of the failure of the anti-Ahmadi group. Because I am being unduly attacked, I have to defend myself.
 I am sure they cannot tolerate the truth. That hadith was not put up by me. It was given in the post of whisper and now it has been removed. So how can any one discuss anything with the false and fraudulant people. I will look for the name of Ilyas Sattar in their posts and will not find it. It means it as been withdrawn.
 
 I am not supporting any Ahmadi here. But the opposite side is mighty afraid of things. I am sure they will not tolerate even a small bit of any truthful discussion. Whisper is denying having put up any Hadith. And asking me questions. Why? Why not tell me about that Hadith first which was shown here please. o.K. We will find out where that material is gone and why.
 And I have yet to see any reply about the grand pa of whisper. Did he see his grand pa? There is no reply.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 9:50am
I have pretty clearly mentioned  the doubts i have about him.
 
Who cares what you think about or your doubts?
Who are you? anyway and also by the way.
As far as we are concerened you are trying to promote a fake nabi by just barking your assertions at us.
 
Proof? Hum proof mangta hay? Samjhay ya aur samjhaaoon?
Immediately before you bark anything else at us.
 
And Minuteman
Stop harrassing us with all your scholarly bull. Just provide us the proof of your man's prophet hood. Khalaas! Understand? or you wish me to make you understand Punjaubi style?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Whisper

I have pretty clearly mentioned  the doubts i have about him.
 
Who cares what you think about or your doubts?
Who are you? anyway and also by the way.


i can ask the same question, who is ur grand pa. is he a prophet of God or is it somewhere mentioned in quran that whenever ur grand pa says something just accept it with any question. so comeon plz be serious. u are just trying to create fuss and not answering my question that has been putup since the 1st post of this thread.

Plz and be respectful, u are surly not creating a good image of urself. im sure ur grandpa must have taught u some respect other than that story.

so plz answer my main question. im waiting


but if u dont have any answer then that automatically means that yes they're not harmful or insulting to islam in any way and so we should respect them and their prophet just as we respect other sects of islam, consider them a sect of islam and not a creation of Brit and let them do their business and leave the matter between them and God.

and im still reading and understanding about their prophets prophecy. the understanding just dont come in days so be patient. as soon as i reach any conclusion, i'll post but even if i dont, just dont badmouth them and leave in peace.


Thanks


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 10:29am
 
 My mistake and apology to whisper. It was not his post but that of Seeks about Ilyas Sattar. I have found that post now. And the hadith too. i will post it here soon. My apology to whisper again and to all others. Nothing has been removed. All is well. But whisper seems to be quite hot.
 
 I was asking about his grand in good faith. But he did not trust me.
 
 Now for seeks, please see your post again about the matter of Ilyas Sattar and the Hadith narrated by Hazrat Fatima r.a. Do you believe that Hadith to be true? Let me know please.


-------------
If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 11:21am
Plz and be respectful, u are surly not creating a good image of urself. im sure ur grandpa must have taught u some respect other than that story.

Would I care a hoot about my image with you when I fail to respect any bit of you? You are juggling the issue. I have asked you just this instance; who are you? What credentials do you have of barking your assertions at us like this? Are you some scholar of any standing?
 
You seem to conduct yourself as a lay about, some immature juvenile delinquent with utter disrespect for anything.
 
My grandfather never told me any stories. He died long before I was born. I have read this event in a History book when Abul Asar Hafeez Jalundhary pointed it out to me. Chore de puttar Jallendhary saa'b ko jantay ho? (Do you know Jallundhary?)
 
It is not one of his sayings or anything like that. Shall I make you understand in Punjaubi? Your nabi failed to show up. In fact he ran away (like you had done just a few weeks ago) when he was challenged to a Munazara on his claims.
Do you understand what that means? I bet you do but you are just a juggler with this issue in your hands. It seems you have never been good at other real games. You need psychological assistance with your distorted mentality.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 11:54am
My mistake and apology to whisper.
 
Yaar Minuteman just forget about all these bookish things. We all know you are a great scholar. You don't have to impress that upon us at all.
 
Just please bring us the Proof of this chap's prophethood. In your and this H(arami)300's game all of us have a fair chance of becoming Nabis if only your and his certification is the only requirement!


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:19pm
I was asking about his grand in good faith. But he did not trust me.
 
Bradre'em it's has nothing to do with trust. Just with a bit of modesty, perhaps. When we are surrounded by the likes of this chap, here, it does become quite difficult to talk about any type of decent things. He seems to have had some broken down second hand type of elders and such chaps always think that the whole world has elders just like their own!
 
My grand father was the direct descendant of Memrez Salik Naqshband who gave up Ahmed Shah Abdaal's Governorship and packed in his sword and started a tehereek in 1749. Today, masha Allah, our Trust runs 30 schools and a 500 acres university is now being completed in Sargodha, for the four million or so Khaliqis.
 


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:32pm
 is he a prophet of God or is it somewhere mentioned in quran that whenever ur grand pa says something just accept it with any question.
No. Only what you say we should accept with our heads bowed!
Who are you? Some prophet? What makes you a prophet promoter? Just a juvenile chore da puttar, juggler, immature chap in need of serious psychological assistance.
 
Bring proof and only then bark your assertions at us.
I feel you are totally Punjaubi medium. You don't understand plain simple English. Let me spell it out in Panjaubi:
Apnay Nabi di nabawat da saboot lay ke aa tay pher saday naal gal kar.


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:58pm
the post of seekshidayath in which he gives some reference of Illias Sattar is taken from an  anti-ahmedi site so we are not going to expect a objective unbiased opinion from there.

Thats why ive been repeating it time and time again that dont accept anything from here or there  or u will only get mislead. There are lots of devils in this world.
Try to find out ur self by studying there(AHMEDIS) books and the interpretations of their khalifas.

This  also proves that there is no one here who have studied any of their
books and are just giving references from non ahmedi sites and infact  most of todays muslims who are anti-ahmedi are those who have got knowledge about them through nonauthentic sources by which i mean
is that what they hear on these different websites, what they hear from their elder or scholars or what they hear from there friends or stories they hear from here and there like the one Whisper is stating and they fall for it.

No one has done  an extensive study/research themselves by reading the orginal books of ahmedis, (books of their prophets and khalifas) and ofocurse the end result will only be one that we can see in this
thread.

 
So plz before forming any conclusion, atleast study their books but
if u cant than dont atleast blindly accept what these people around say bcz they are neither the prophets of God and neither their words are the words of quran.

If u cant read their books urself, then u are not in any position to form an objective, unbiased conclusion, which then makes the best option, the most sensible one is Just to respect them for their believes and follow ur own religion. Im sure God will be happy with all of us.

Thanks 


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 1:48pm
(books of their prophets and khalifas)
 

My beautiful juggler Morshed-in-Chief, I requested you to be just a bit careful here, but do you ever listen? I had told you, not to appoint any Prophets unless you had obtained manufacturing details and full certification of their prophet hoods.

 

And, by just riding rough shod and shouting at these chaps you continue to establish your self as a mere thug and a juggler. You need to understand that these people out here are pretty cool with their own hundreds of thousands of certified Class “A” Nabis. What makes you feel that are so short on this count that they will take your plastic fake to their hearts?

 

I have read Mirza saa'b.

Almost at a time that you seem to be facing now. She also had a triangular burqa and perhaps the most penetrating eyes! Is your m’shooq also from Gujranwala? Or have you tied up with someone from Daska? The Daskavi ones are far better and their padres seem to have more acreage.

 

I will also suggest another priceless thing to you.

Get on to Google Earth and chart the route Hazrat Issa aleh e Islam took to Kashmir. (Just between you and I, is it possible that Mirza just made it up to shoon shaa’n the importance of where the Mirzas come from?)

 

Anyway, just be a bit careful because I haven’t had a Morshed for a very long time and I don’t wish to waste you here and right in front of my very own eyes. Aap tay maren ga naal ee sanoo vi murwai’n ga! (You will be killed but seems you will also get us killed with you) - actually an old Punjaubi saying, mostly, used as pun for someone’s utter empty head.

 

Morshed, I have asked you a few times but you seem to go deaf whenever I pose the question: why do Ahmadis take the rest of the world as Non-Muslims?



-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 1:09am
Originally posted by H3OO

matters.

SR

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Here is ahmedis  interpretation OF seal of prophets, Khataman Nabiyyeen.

You started this thread with SR initials boy you have lot of nerve: I assure you  will get the run for your money!
Why are you acting as a Ahmedi attorney if you are not one?

They say Khatam is derived from the word Khatama which means sealed, stamped, impressed or imprinting the thing. This is the primary signification the this word. the secondary meaning is he reached the end of the thing, or covered the thing or protected what is in writhing by marking or stamping a piece of clay uopn it or by means of seal of any kind.

Khatam means a stamp, a seal or a mark.
(the purpose of a seal is not to close a statement LOL
but to certify it as correct. That is why often a seal is affixed to a document at its top and in other cases it is affixed at its bottom or at its end. Its purpose is to certify the genuineness and correctness of the contents of the document.)
Do you understand what are you blithering about?
Even if it is at all  possible how do you get a certified document with a Muhammad's approval?
Why the flipping heck do we need a secondary meaning?
Why it is that  two false prophets being non Arab and both were Mirzas,One who created Bahai religion and then your Mirza!
What is with these doggone Mirzas? Can't they live without being opportunists
? In case of former there still existed the Caliphate the later basically helped the antagonists to end and not let it come back cuz Jihad is over!
Something wrong in their gene pool that they can't help but being such delusional!
The word also signifies embellishment and ornament ; the best and most perfect.
The words Khatim and khatm and khatam are almost synonymous.
So the expression Khatam would mean the seal of prophets, the best and the most perfect of the prophets, the embellishment and ornament of the prophets. secondarily it means the last of the prophets

Briefly according to meaning of Khatam given above, one  can have 3 possible meanings.
These are your assumptions!!!

1.No prophet and his message can be regarded as true unless his prophethood bears the  the seal of Holy prophet [pbuh]
What is the MO for that? How do you  get the paperwork signed sealed and delivered from the Prophet again and again?

2.The Holy prophet was the best, noblest and the most perfect of all the prophets and he was also a source of  embellishment  for them
OK who is them explain yourself?
3.The holy prophet was the last of the law bearing prophets
STOP==He said in the last sermon-no prophet after him. law or no law!
Nice try


From the above interpretation of theirs, can u plz tell me how it
in any way effect the status of prophet (pbuh) or in any way disrespects him.
Now you settle down and listen you talk about disrespect>>> Mirza's attachment with the colonial rulers and his followers after (he died in the toilet a fact ) sold their souls for few pieces of silver to continue their sycophancy to the Anglo  masters even after they got out out of the subcontinent!

They assisted the Brits in the dismantlement of the Caliphate and declaring the Jihad was unnecessary! They tried to take the control of a fist newly independent so called Pakistan when the colonials left .

Then there were riots in the country in
early fifties to get rid  some of the obvious tentacles of the imperial control through the Ahmedis and other minority over the 80% majority of regular muslims. Then the country went to dogs split up into two but the troubles are not over by any means. I was an eye witness to the riots I am talking about I don't want to go into the details! How the army shot the common people to death in their own neighborhoods! And that horrible practice gave rise to the currency of dictatorships.
what i can say is that this interpretation further higher/raises his status, greatness than merely using the word Last.
It is Allah who has done that with a instructions to the Muslims to send salamm on him constantly? There is no need of this bogus interpretation!
 I ask u, how can above be any threat to islam or damaging to prophet(pbuh).
Threat to Islam is obvious that the minorties are ruling with the wink and nod of the old colonial and the neocolonial power the US! There is not a single independently functioning regular Muslim state in the ME or in the neghborhood!





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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:09am
Originally posted by H3OO

it is only  their interpretation of the word seal of prophets/ Khataman Nabiyyeen that is different

So what crime is it if any faith differently interprets it.

is their any compulsion on them in interpreting the way they feel is true.
Then they become a different religion that is all mi suizo!
it definitely seems that we are putting some compulsion on them that they should only interpret the way we do and not use their own mind or they'll be hated. isnt it sir.
Not exactly!Who are we to do that? As they were given a long leash by their benefactors the colonial powers in their hey days, the poor people of the land just yanked that leash after a time the colonials went back to their Island!
They are free to interpret and use their minds as long as they hang around their masters! not here on IC either!


we see so many scholars wrongly interpreting islamic teachings that is causing great harm to islam but remain silent there but when an ahmedi group differently interpret something for which they also give some reasoning it still becomes such a big crime (even though there interpretation is in no way effecting islam in a negative way or badmouthing prophet [sa] or abusing quran)
It depends on the law of the land as said above!
Quran is a book of God but he has left it on us to understand it, interpret it and so if they want to understand it the they feel is true, what is wrong with that.
Nothing is wrong only when you cross the limit set by the recepient!
Remember what Elijah Muhammad(NOI) did when nobody was looking!
That is what Mirza did when nobody was looking with one exception Elijah labelled the whiteman as devil but Mirza took the whiteman as the co savior!
This heavy stuff amigo may be too much for you!
His followers got the English education and the front seat in the colonial administration while the rest of the people rotted under the bondage akin to the Uncle Toms with a brand new Islam! WOW

in the end its God who will decide whose interpretation is right or wrong.
Of course but The Prophet(s) said he is leaving two things Quraan and his Sunnah you follow that instead of your own interpretations then you will not  go estray!
we just need to learn to listen to each others point view, accept the one we feel is right and move on.
It is time for you to hit the road and stop at the stop sign and follow the speed limit! I mean Quraan in the light of Sunnah!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:11am
  Seeks, the undermentioned Hadith was posted care of Ilyas sattar:
 
 "There is another important statement by the Holy Prophet. During his last illness, the Holy Prophet said to his daughter Fatima: ‘Once a year Gabriel used to recite the Quran to me. This year he recited twice. He also told me that every succeeding Prophet has lived up to half the age of his predecessor. He told me that Jesus, son of Mary, lived to 120 years. Therefore, I think, I may live to about 60 years."
 
 You may have some knowledge of the Hadith. It is narrated by Hazrat Fatima r.a. Do you believe the Hadith is true? The words or translation of the Hadith may not be perfect. But it is required to know if this Hadith is true.  Please inform.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:24am
 
 S*R, I ahd mentioned on Hadith about who is a Momin. The prophet s.a.w.s. said , "Any one who recites the kailmah and faces the Qiblah and eats from our food is a Momin. There is guarantee of his safety from Allah and the Messenger..."   What do we do with this Hadith? Bye-pass it? or invent our own religion?
 
 I had another belief for a log time. I now find it is all true. "It is not allowed to call a Kalimah-go as kafir." The above Hadith supports it.
 
 Also, there are more proof. There re only two types of enemies of the Ummah and Islam.
1. The Munafiq
2. The Kafir.
 
 The first one claims that he is a muslim. But tries to harm the Ummah. While sitting in the fold of Muslims.
 The second one never says that he is a Muslim. He is against Islam openly. He denies Islam. That is a Kafir.
 
 I feel that Ahmadis could fall in the first category. But never in the second category. That is they could be called Munafiq. But never Kafir.
 
 That is in accordance with the words of the prophet s.a.w.s. that any one proclaiming kalimah is a Momin. Do not disturb him. At the most, be careful about him. But why to abuse him? Who taught that?


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:34am
 
  H300:
 
 the post of seekshidayath in which he gives some reference of Illias Sattar is taken from an  anti-ahmedi site so we are not going to expect a objective unbiased opinion from there.

Thats why ive been repeating it time and time again that dont accept anything from here or there  or u will only get mislead. There are lots of devils in this world.
Try to find out ur self by studying there(AHMEDIS) books and the interpretations of their khalifas.
 
  Ilyas sattar was known to be against Ahmadis. But he did not know much. He tried to disprove and bring down Ahmadis. We do not hear much about him now and where he is now.
 
 At one time, he was preaching against "Allah u Akbar" that it is no where in the Quran. Nobody understood what he wanted to prove and why he was against Allah u Akbar.
 
 The Sunni organisers of the program stopped Ilyas sattar from distributing his pamphlets against Allah u Akbar.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:47am
 
 Whisper, Thanks for the info that you did not meet your grand. But you have a good following (3M). Good luck. Enjoy. My question has been answered. You may have been born about 12 years after the passing away of your grand.
 
 I hope there will be no more questions and no disrespect.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 3:40am
Then they become a different religion
which is islam.

Of course but The Prophet(s) said he is leaving two things Quraan and his Sunnah you follow that instead of your own interpretations then you will not  go estray!
Then i think scholars dont need to write and we dont need to study those lengthy Tafseers(Tafseer sagheer and Kabeer) which also someones interpretation. Dont u have any Tafseer at home, if u have, whose interpretation it is, probably some scholars. and thats what they follow also; quran and hadith.

Why are you acting as a Ahmedi attorney if you are not one?

Why are we all muslims insulting them, calling them a fitna when they dont harm us and are peacefully following islam. u see that is why.

Why it is that  two false prophets being non Arab
Their prophet/imam mehdi is not from a jew or christian side, he is from the ummah of prophet[sa]. that should be enough. Where is it written that God can give prophethood only to an arab.

What is the MO for that? How do you  get the paperwork signed sealed and delivered from the Prophet again and again?
That must have been for the prophets before prophet[sa]. It could be that he confirmed their existence and their messages. There message hold no importance untill Prophet[sa] confirms them which just shows his[sa] importance/status and thats why we believe in all those prophets before him[sa] bcz of his confirmation and he[sa] also talked about the coming of imam mehdi,
 so if their prophet turns out to be the true imam mehdi that prophet [sa] talked about, then this could very well mean that his prophethood(ahmedis imam mehdi) bears the seal of the prophet[sa].

He said in the last sermon-no prophet after him. law or no law!
Nice try

Right and agreed right now. The revelation that prophet [sa] received during the last sermon was;
This day the disbelievers despair of prevailing against your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me (Allah)! This day have I perfected for you your religion and fulfilled My favor unto you, and it hath been My good pleasure to choose Islam for you as your religion (Surah 5, Ayah 3).

God reveals to prophet[sa] that he has completed the religion but there is no verdict as to, no prophet after prophet[sa]. Allah does mentions that the religion is completed and islam is their religion and hence automatically means that no new law/religion will now come but u see there could be a point/debate regarding whether it also meant from this revelation that no new prophet will come(i have to study regarding this more) and they [ahmedi] surely didnt bring any new law. had they brought then, there was a point.

hey assisted the Brits in the dismantlement of the Caliphate and declaring the Jihad was unnecessary!
Again u are clueless here and further shows how much mislead u are bcz of not studying the ahmedis views through their books and believing in non ahmedi sources which will only give a biased opinion. and thats why im repeating again and again that dont do that if u want to reach an objective opinion.

here is the link to a book(pdf) that pretty validily clears the allegations against them that they have abrogated jihad on the orders of british by their 4th khalifa Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad.
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/TrueIslamicConceptofJihad.pdf
http://www.alislam.org/jihad/
(More References relating to their concept)

i hope u find some time if u really want to know the ans. It is very good explanation and show how much false propaganda we are doing against them.

Threat to Islam is obvious that the minorties are ruling with the wink and nod of the old colonial and the neocolonial power the US! There is not a single independently functioning regular Muslim state in the ME or in the neghborhood!

Prove that ahmedis are working under the power of US. When u people dont have any sensible answers, that is the last thing u've got, that is just to associate them with either Brit or jews and now US. U are just stating what our maulvis have incorporated in all our minds and every person comes up with exact similar response with out knowing how they are a threat.

and if there is
not a single independently functioning regular Muslim state, how can that be an ahmedis fault, just try to make some sense. what muslims are going through is their own fault. If u read quran and understand it properly, u will get the all the answers pretty clearly for the reason of muslims current state. so stop playing the blame game and see the facts which are pretty clear.
Look at the Arab. They are lucky that they have got natural gift in the form of oil which has made them wealthy otherwise what have they earned themselves. where are they when it comes to education, science and technology, when it comes to sports, etc, etc. All the work/research today whether related to humans, animals or universe, medicine, technology, all the the advancement is being done today by the nonmuslim world, so is it ahmedis fault for the Arabs sleeping despite so much wealth.



Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 4:41am
Prove that ahmedis are working under the power of US. When u people dont have any sensible answers, that is the last thing u've got, that is just to associate them with either Brit or jews and now US.
 
How can you be so effing sure of your assertions?
Who do you think you are? Why should we just take your word for eveything you just bark at us and prove everything, all historical facts to you?
If you have any sense YOU will come with the P R O O F of your effing prophet's prophet hood.
Do you understand that? 
You are some real juggler and we will put you where you belong.
 
S*R, SeeksHidayat and also Minuteman
This man is an effing troll and a most dangerous psychopath. Remember my intuition of these past few years. I want you to join hands in putting him where he belongs - in some dust bin.
 
This will save me asking some of my Niazi, Rao or other more martial muridayn to put him in some hole and gut him for some tennis raquet.
 
I have told him umpteen times that his Nabi failed to turn up fo munazara three times + he put a contract on my grandfather's head. This is a huge Historic event. He has not answered what that means. He just keeps barking at us. I am not going to tolerate this tauheen e rasalat. I promise you upon my scout's honour, if you don't scalp this son of som B then I am going to get him. Switzerland is not very far from here.
 
I know what to do with any b's bones.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 4:55am
If you study him just even plainly, you don't need any special lense for that, he is an Ahmadi and is here just to disturb us.
 
I have been asking him for Proof of his Nabi's prophethood for days, but has he shown up?
 
And, now he is asking S*R for PROOF. What an effing nerve. We will get him. And, anyone who does not get him, will be in the same category as him.
 
Oye! H(arami 300 - if you bark any further come laced with the proof of Prophethood of your nabi. And also with total proof of the fable that Hazrat Issa reached Kashmir and died there.
 
No more juggling my Morshed. I am in a different vein since you demanded proof from my friend Sign*Reader.
 
If you bark here without any proof, we know what to do with you. 


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 5:32am
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 
 You are advertising Maudoodi un-necessarily. Would you allow me to present anything? I have also read the tafseer myself, in fact, more than you. There is nothing spiritual in it. But it is written in better style Urdu. I should say free style where Maudoodi sahib took much liberty with the language. That is all.
 
 If you have read the Tafseer then give your opinion on the three points by way of Maudoodi sahib as follows:
 
 1. Is there going to be any kind of prophet after prophet Muhammad?
 2. Is there going to be any kind of Wahi/Ilham after prophet Muhammad?
 3. Is Isa a.s. alive now  and has not yet died? (mind you read page 420 of the Tafseer volume 1.)
 
 These are the points that you should have enlightened every one with your knowhow. Not to advertise anything here. It is possible that you have learnt nothing from the books of Maudoodi sahib.
 
 So please mind about 1. Any prophet after our Prophet Muhammad?
2. Any kind of Wahi/Ilham in these days.  3. Life and death of Hazrat Eisa a.s.
Just discuss these from your point of view. That will help to understand the subject under discussion.


 I am very surprised if you have read Maulana's tafssir which is very scholarly work then why you are still running behind false prophet?

 You should produce response to Maulana's work on the topic of 'Finality of Prophethood' line by line which you still didnot.

 I didnot quote only Mualana's tafssir but on the same time i also quoted oldest tafssir of Quran wriiten by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir - Ibn Kathir which says that there is no prophet after Muhammad.

 Here are other famous Mufassirs who openly say there is no prophet after Muhammad(In commentary of Surah 33:40)

  http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=33&tAyahNo=40&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0 - Tafsir al-Jalalayn
  http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=2&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=33&tAyahNo=40&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0 - Tafsir Ibn Abbas
 Tafsir Ibn Abbas is attributed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanwir_al-Miqbas - Abdullah Ibn Abbas (Cousion of Prophet Muhammad)

 Here is my challenge to minuteman:

 1.Quote any single authentic mufassir which support your claim that there is prophet after Muhammad.

 Now i come to your last question which is about life and death of Jesus Christ.

 If you read above quoted mufassir including Ibn Kathir these mufassir have a unique faith regarding this matter.

 Below you will find a link that has a mini book that proves that Prophet Issa (latinized to Jesus) (peace be upon him) did not die according to Qur'an and that he will return.
 
http://invitationtotruth.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/did-prophet-issa-die/ - http://invitationtotruth.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/did-prophet-issa-die/
 
 The link also has articles from Ahadith [sayings of Prophet Muhammad (may upon him be mercy of God and peace)] for those who do believe in Hadith but call them to be metaphorical in the situation of Prophet Issa (peace be upon him). The articles from Ahadith are quite interesting as they involve interpretation of many sayings in the context of modern scenario.
 
 

 

 

 


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:10am
My friends, you have known me now for sometime.
This man has listed Mirza G Ahmed as a prophet in his post above. I have been asking him for the proof of this an's prophethood for the last three days.
He just dodges the issue.
 
Now you tell me what shall we do with a chap who is just barking his assertions at us without providing any proof of the prophethood of a British agent that he has listed as a Prophet?
 
I seek your help and guidance before I begin to act against this evil.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:30am
Calm down my friend whisper. U need to relax and take a break. im worried about ur health. and if Prophet[sa] were to read to ur replies, im sure  he[sa] would be really upset/ashamed of having  followers like u.

and plz answer my question and have a constructive discussion or even if u keep screaming. that doesnt bother me a bit. and i guess from ur replys it is pretty clear as to who is a psychopath.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 10:55am
Calm down my friend whisper. U need to relax and take a break. im worried about ur health. and if Prophet[sa] were to read to ur replies, im sure  he[sa] would be really upset/ashamed of having  followers like u.

Don't worry on my account at all, please. And, the Prophet will be very pleased about a fraudster like you?
 
You want my attention?
PUT THE PROOF OF PROPHETHOOD on the table for the man that you have LISTED as a Prophet in one of your above posts.
 
Anything short of that will not work with the likes of us.
Just give us the proof. DON'T JUGGLE THE ISSUE as is your habit.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 11:02am
Mio pobre amigo
psychopath is a useless man with exceptionally low self esteem and other personality disorders who just keeps barking at others and ever fails / refuses to put up any proof for his assertions.
 
Comprende? or do I need to translate this also in Punjaubi for you?
 
I am telling you this once. PROOF of Prophet of a chap you have listed as a prophet in one of your posts above.
 
Do you understand what is PROOF? Or you want me to clarify that too in Punjaubi?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 11:18am
If i had the proofs, i wouldve been an ahmedi today. so u want the proofs, only a knowledgeable ahmedi can give them or study their books specially their khalifas, im sure it will help. My purpose was totally different here that is not to convince that there prophet is a true one as im still studying but to realize u all that they are peaceful followers of islam and not a threat to islam as one can see from their interpretation and so we should treat them with respect.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 11:22am
psychopath do you understand we want just PROOF of prophethood of the man you have listed as a Prophet in your post above.
 
No more talking and no more juggling the issue. In fact no more of all your other sick trades. Just give us the PROOF or simply stop barking at us.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath

2. Did u read anywhere in Qur'an and Sunnah, that Isa AS, visited India, that too Kashmir. { It would be a uniting factor for us - indo-pak} Smile
3. They say that Isa AS, never ascended to heavens, Then where he is. Nauzbillah, in Kashmir, or around the Kabah of Qadiyanis, which i heard is in Punjab.

 
 

Some time back i saw this BBC Four documentary ''did Jesus Die on a cross''. which was made by interviewing several  historians, theologians and historical researchers.

What they show is that there are some signs/possiblity that Jesus might have migrated to  the mountains of Kashmir and also showed his possible tomb there which many people over there do believe  is that of a man from Israel accord to their ancestors and accord to what is stated  in the history of Kashmir.
Now its not a research of ahmedis but is of Christian researchers and theologians.

I dont know whether over here anyone has watched it, so i'll advice to watch it, it definitely gives a very good insight regarding this matter.
u can Google it or im sure u can find it on YOUtube, do watch it, plz.


and im not saying that what they are saying has to be true but these are carried out by knowledgeable historians, theologians and we must not ignore it. and They've got no advantage in proving that he migrated to Kashmir. They are just doing their research as they do in every other field and what they are saying is totally based on their study, research.

so this does makes me think that now that many others after research are starting to point out that there are signs of his migration to Kashmir,  ahmedis claim might carry some weight in it.

There are many other researchers/scholars/historians/theologians who have also written books on jesus in India/Kashmir as;

Christ Of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna who is a spiritual master from Indonesia
Journey into Kashmir and Tibet by Swami Abhedananda
Jesus lived in India by Holger Kersten
Where did Jesus die? by J.D. Shams
The way of the Essenes: Christ' s hidden life remembered by Anne and Daniel Meurois-Givaudan
The Jesus mystery by Janet Bock
The unknown life of Jesus Christ by Nicolas Notovitch



So  when more and more people outside ahmedis are starting to point out this possibility, then there must be something in it. and so we shouldnt rule it out.

There is also a book By the ahmedis Prophet "Jesus in india". That is an important one to read as it will give more detail as to what there exact views are.



Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 
 You are advertising Maudoodi un-necessarily. Would you allow me to present anything? I have also read the tafseer myself, in fact, more than you. There is nothing spiritual in it. But it is written in better style Urdu. I should say free style where Maudoodi sahib took much liberty with the language. That is all.
 
 If you have read the Tafseer then give your opinion on the three points by way of Maudoodi sahib as follows:
 
 1. Is there going to be any kind of prophet after prophet Muhammad?
 2. Is there going to be any kind of Wahi/Ilham after prophet Muhammad?
 3. Is Isa a.s. alive now  and has not yet died? (mind you read page 420 of the Tafseer volume 1.)
 
 These are the points that you should have enlightened every one with your knowhow. Not to advertise anything here. It is possible that you have learnt nothing from the books of Maudoodi sahib.
 
 So please mind about 1. Any prophet after our Prophet Muhammad?
2. Any kind of Wahi/Ilham in these days.  3. Life and death of Hazrat Eisa a.s.
Just discuss these from your point of view. That will help to understand the subject under discussion.


 Response to minuteman

 I didnot quote only Maulana Maududi's tafssir but at the same time i also quoteded oldest tafssir by Ibn Kathir which agree that there is no Prophet after Muhammad.

 Now i am going to quote tafssir by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_al-Jalalayn - al-Jalalayn which agree that there is no prophet after Muhammad.

 
{ javascript:Open_Menu%28%29 - مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَآ أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ ٱلنَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيماً }

Muhammad is not the father of any man among you: he is not Zayd’s biological father and so it is not unlawful for him to marry his [former] wife Zaynab [after him]; but, he is, the Messenger of God and the Seal of the Prophets, and so he will not have a son that is a [fully grown] man to be a prophet after him (a variant reading [for khātim al-nabiyyīna] has khātam al-nabiyyīn, as in the instrument [known as a] ‘seal’, in other words, their [prophethood] has been sealed by him). And God has knowledge of all things, among these is the fact that there will be no prophet after him, and even when the lord Jesus descends [at the end of days] he will rule according to his [Muhammad’s] Law. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=33&tAyahNo=40&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0 - (Source)

 Here is another famous tafsir http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanwir_al-Miqbas - 'Tanwir al-Miqbas' by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd-Allah_ibn_Abbas - Abd Allah Ibn Abbas (Cousin of Prophet Muhammad) which also agree with the above quoted tafssirs.

 
{ javascript:Open_Menu%28%29 - مَّا كَانَ مُحَمَّدٌ أَبَآ أَحَدٍ مِّن رِّجَالِكُمْ وَلَـٰكِن رَّسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَخَاتَمَ ٱلنَّبِيِّينَ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيماً }

(Muhammad is not the father of any man among you) i.e. Zayd, (but he is the Messenger of Allah) but Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah (and the Seal of the Prophets) with him Allah has sealed the advent of prophets, such that there is no prophet after him; (and Allah is Aware of all things) of your words and works. http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=33&tAyahNo=40&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0 - (Source)

 Recommended articles:
 
http://sectarianrefutations.blogspot.com/2008/09/finality-of-prophet-muhammad-peace-and.html - Finality of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
  http://www.muslim.org/qadis/mahmud-f.htm - Mirza Mahmud Ahmad believed,at one time,that Prophet Muhammad was the Last Prophet.
  http://www.kr-hcy.com/statichtml/files/104164918496231,print.shtml - Finality of Prophethood.
  http://www.jamiatuk.com/khatme-nabuwat.php - Islamic Belief of Finality according to the Quran,Sunnah,and concensus of the Ummah.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by H3OO

Originally posted by seekshidayath

2. Did u read anywhere in Qur'an and Sunnah, that Isa AS, visited India, that too Kashmir. { It would be a uniting factor for us - indo-pak} Smile
3. They say that Isa AS, never ascended to heavens, Then where he is. Nauzbillah, in Kashmir, or around the Kabah of Qadiyanis, which i heard is in Punjab.

 
 

Some time back i saw this BBC Four documentary ''did Jesus Die on a cross''. which was made by interviewing several  historians, theologians and historical researchers.

What they show is that there are some signs/possiblity that Jesus might have migrated to  the mountains of Kashmir and also showed his possible tomb there which many people over there do believe  is that of a man from Israel accord to their ancestors and accord to what is stated  in the history of Kashmir.
Now its not a research of ahmedis but is of Christian researchers and theologians.

I dont know whether over here anyone has watched it, so i'll advice to watch it, it definitely gives a very good insight regarding this matter.
u can Google it or im sure u can find it on YOUtube, do watch it, plz.


and im not saying that what they are saying has to be true but these are carried out by knowledgeable historians, theologians and we must not ignore it. and They've got no advantage in proving that he migrated to Kashmir. They are just doing their research as they do in every other field and what they are saying is totally based on their study, research.

so this does makes me think that now that many others after research are starting to point out that there are signs of his migration to Kashmir,  ahmedis claim might carry some weight in it.

There are many other researchers/scholars/historians/theologians who have also written books on jesus in India/Kashmir as;

Christ Of Kashmiris by Anand Krishna who is a spiritual master from Indonesia
Journey into Kashmir and Tibet by Swami Abhedananda
Jesus lived in India by Holger Kersten
Where did Jesus die? by J.D. Shams
The way of the Essenes: Christ' s hidden life remembered by Anne and Daniel Meurois-Givaudan
The Jesus mystery by Janet Bock
The unknown life of Jesus Christ by Nicolas Notovitch



So  when more and more people outside ahmedis are starting to point out this possibility, then there must be something in it. and so we shouldnt rule it out.

There is also a book By the ahmedis Prophet "Jesus in india". That is an important one to read as it will give more detail as to what there exact views are.


Wow! man you are really a stubborn troll in the Month of Ramadan!
I can see why you are teeing the people of in general by your typical troll behavior and particularly bro Sasha!
Now the rubbish that clearly is against a clear Quranic sign:4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
4:158 Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;- but you have no compunction for doing that but you can plead for Qadiani POV be accepted without challenge!
Can't you see this sign is addressing the people likes of you who are following the conjectures?
Why should a believer follow the BBC or any /all the doubters in the first place!
And you have conveniently tried to cherry pick my points in your previous responses! And that is OK; think through about the above quoted revelations cuz this is mirror you can't avoid no matter how much brain washing you have gone through by your handlers!
By bringing this point you dug yourself a hole and more you dig, deeper you will go down! the common sense demands!
So stop digging! and also ask for Allah's forgiveness for pleading the Qardiani POV in this month of sanctity!




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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by H3OO

The Prophet of Ahmadiiya community stated with regrads to Holy prophet (pbuh)

The person who was above all, and was a perfect man, and a perfect prophet, and who came with the fullness of blessings, through whom, on account of his spiritual advent and the spiritual resurrection that he brought about, the first judgment manifested itself and a whole universe that was dead was revived, that blessed prophet Khatamul Anbiya, Leader of the elect, Katamul Mursileen, Pride of the Prophets was Muhammad Mustafa, peace and the blessings of Allah by upon him. (Itmamul Hujjah, p.28)

He claimed:

Allah is Glorious, Allah is Glorious; what a high station was that of the Khatamul Anbiya, the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Glory be to Allah, what high degree of light was his. (Braheen Ahmadiyya, p.246)

My belief that I hold in this life and with which, by the grace of Allah, I shall pass on from this world is that our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was Khataman Nabiyyeen and the best of Messengers. (Izala Auham, part I, p.137)

He declared:

I believe in the Khatam-i-Nabuwat of the Khatamul Anbjya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and consider one who denies the Khatam-i-Nabuwat as faithless and outside the pale of Islam. (Taqreer Wajabul llan, 1891)

He has stated:

My belief is that our Holy Prophet is better and more exalted than all the Messengers and is Khataman Nabiyyeen. (Ayenah Kamalat Islam, p.327)

He has declared:

I believe that our Holy Prophet, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is more exalted than all the Messengers and is the Khatamul Anbiya. (Hamamatul Bushra, p.8)

He has affirmed:

I believe truly and perfectly in the verse which says: 'But he was the Messenger of Allah and Khataman Nabiyyeen'. (Ek Ghati Ka Izala)

He has stated:

I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that I am not a disbeliever. My doctrine is that there is no one worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah . I believe concerning him that he was the Messenger of Allah and the Khataman Nabiyyeen. I affirm the truth of this statement with as many oaths as are the Holy names of Allah and as are the letters of the Holy Quran and as is the number of the excellencies of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. No belief of mine is contrary to the commands of Allah and His Messenger. He who imagines anything contrary to this labors under a mis-conception. (Karamatus Sadiqeen, p.25)


so its clear they do consider Prophet (pbuh) 

Khatamul Anbiya but just the difference of interpretation.




You are spamming in violation of the guidelines of the forum indicated how lawful is your thinking!
You have copied  and pasted from the official website of the Ahmedia community giving a false impression of your own scholarship!

How can you make a case being a Qadiani Spammer!

You comments and future threads need to be watched by all Muslim members of this forum!
This is unconscionable and you owe an apology for getting the Ahmedia propaganda site in here edgewise without mentioning its reference! 
Shame on you amigo/freund/yar for being so deceptive!
Is that how your parents and teachers taught you to plagiarize!


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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 5:51pm

 

Mirza Mahmud Ahmad believed, at one time, that Prophet Muhammad was the Last Prophet


The Qadiani Khalifa Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad (their leader from 1914 to 1965), who originated the belief of the Qadiani Movement that prophets can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad, himself at one time wrote that no prophet can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad because he was the Khatam an-nabiyyin.

In 1910, two years after the death of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad wrote an article entitled Najaat (Salvation) which was published in the monthly Tashhiz-ul-azhan, the magazine of which he himself was the proprietor and editor. Shown below is the front cover of that issue (April 1910, vol. v, no. 4) in which this article appeared:

tashhiz
(We have highlighted the name of the editor, Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad, and the title of the article in question.)

In this article, he explains the meaning of the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse of the Holy Quran as follows:

Translation of relevant portion: Image from original Urdu book of the full pages 151 and 152:
"In this verse God has said that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam an-nabiyyin, and none shall come after him who may be raised to the status of prophethood, and who may abrogate his teachings and establish a new law. Nay, however many saints (auliya) there are, and righteous and pious persons, they will get all that they get through service to him. Thus God has said that the Holy Prophet's prophethood was meant not only for his times, but that in future too no prophet would come. ...

"Another point must be remembered here, namely, that in this verse God says: 'God is ever Knower of all things'. This does not appear to have an obvious connection here because it was not necessary to say, regarding the things God has explained, that He is the Knower of everything. The fact is that the Holy Prophet's being the Khatam an-nabiyyin contains a prophecy.

tashhiz
This is that before the Holy Prophet Muhammad there arose hundreds of prophets in the world that we know about and who had great success. In fact, there does not appear to be any century in which, at one place or another, no claimant to prophethood could be found. So Krishna, Ramachandra, Buddha, Confucius, Zoroaster, Moses and Jesus are those whose followers still exist in the world, and are forcefully doing their work, each group putting forward the claim of its truth. But thirteen hundred years have passed since the Holy Prophet's claim, and no one who claimed prophethood has ever attained success. After all, prior to his time people used to claim prophethood, and many of them were successful, whom we believe to be true. But why has this arrangement stopped with his advent? Why is no one successful now? Obviously because of the prophecy that he is the Khatam an-nabiyyin. Now we ask the opponents of Islam, what greater sign can there be than the fact that, after the Holy Prophet, no person who claimed prophethood was successful. It is this which is referred to in the words: 'God is ever Knower of all things'. That is to say, We have made him Khatam an-nabiyyin and We know that no prophet would come after him, and any liar making such a claim would be destroyed. This, therefore, is a historical prophecy which no one can possibly refute." tashhiz

 

It is clearly stated in this article that:

  • "... none shall come after him [Prophet Muhammad] who may be raised to the status of prophethood"

  • Those who come after him among the Muslims are the auliya or saints.

  • "the Holy Prophet's prophethood was meant not only for his times, but that in future too no prophet would come"

  • "... what greater sign can there be than the fact that, after the Holy Prophet, no person who claimed prophethood was successful ..."

  • God says in the Quran that "We know that no prophet would come after him, and any liar making such a claim would be destroyed".
This proves conclusively that the Qadiani belief that prophets can come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad and that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet, was developed sometime after 1910, while Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad had died in May 1908. Therefore Hazrat Mirza could never have taught these beliefs, and indeed what he taught was exactly what Mirza Mahmud Ahmad has written in the above article.
Source: http://www.muslim.org/qadis/mahmud-f.htm - http://www.muslim.org/qadis/mahmud-f.htm




Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:35pm
If i had the proofs, i wouldve been an ahmedi today. so u want the proofs, only a knowledgeable ahmedi can give them or study their books specially their khalifas, im sure it will help. My purpose was totally different here that is not to convince that there prophet is a true one as im still studying but to realize u all that they are peaceful followers of islam and not a threat to islam as one can see from their interpretation and so we should treat them with respect.
 
I promise you, I love your absolutely street act juggling! You are trying to tell us that they are a part of Islam - with own readymade prophet - who was offered a Knighthood by His Majesty - which is done for Services rendered to the Crown?
 
Mian jee, it's very simple = when you list someone as a prophet - you are bound to provide us the auntentecity of that Prophet. Do you understand? Or I have to explain that in Punjaubi?  


-------------
Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 6:43pm
How can you make a case being a Qadiani Spammer!

Paa jee, I have not yet seen such a shameless street juggler, at least, not here at IC. When you list someone as a Nabi then th eonus lies on you to provide the proof of that man's nabi hood. Simple.
 
No response.
 
In 1907, I can't bet on the year, but a man of knowledge who also happend to be my dada, challenged Mirza for a munazara about his various claims including his Nabi hood. Mirza didn't show up thrice.
 
Not just that, he hired a mushtanda (goon) to chop my grandfather's head off. Saday school de master nay onu pharr laya. (a teacher of our school caught hold of him) and they broke both his legs.
 
Hafeez Jallundhary narrated these incidents to me when I was at the GC. He also showed me a collection of periodicals, newspapers of the day that had covered these incidents.
 
These incidents establish the fact that Mirza knew that he was playing an open fraud. Suppose, if he genuinely thought that he had struck Nabi hood, he would have come out of sheer innocence, to establish his claims.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 7:35pm
Paa Jee
I have also started to feel real bad for this chap. He has to act as just shameless and with just the line! Ask him that the Ahmadis consider and also treat all non-Ahmadis as un-Muslim, he just goes mumb.
 
Many other things in his poor behaviour. I feel, he is from that real Ahmadi producing area - the Gujranwala - Sialkot - Lailpur (Faisalabad doesn't really sound as cute!) Sangla Hill - Sheikhupura belt. he seems to have been caught up in that recent surge of sentiment against deviants of Islam. In face of open Anglo-American aggression, people seem to resent the type of docility the likes of Mirza taught and spread.
 
Plus, I fail to understand one thing. Why have I never run into a Baluchi, Pathan or UPite Ahmadi. What are the chances of meeting a Bangla Deshi Mirzai? I have met no more than a Mirzai and a half in Sindh. The half had just signed up because he desperately wanted to marry a woman with a triangle burqa. I didn't ask the other his reasons, but at least he showed me the Nawab Shah bank our President Zardari had "done" on his motorbike!
 
Please can you tell me why is it just primarily a Punjaubi disorder?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 10:55pm
 
 
From Whisper:
And Minuteman
Stop harrassing us with all your scholarly bull. Just provide us the proof of your man's prophet hood. Khalaas! Understand? or you wish me to make you understand Punjaubi style?
 
  Sorry whisper for pulling me into this. I have no intention of any proof and I feel it is silly to ask any one for the proof of his prophethood. Even if I was a prophet, nobody need ask me for the proof of prophethood. The prophets do not carry proofs in their pocket. I feel it is a silly demand and any sensible person should never make such a demand on the prophets.
 
 Abu Jehl had seen the prophet s.a.w.s. Did he miss anything. He saw everything. But he did not believe. He was called Abu Hikmah (The father of wisdom). He missed  all the proofs of the prophthood of Muhammad.
 
 


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 28 September 2008 at 11:59pm

As'Salamu Alaikum ,

When i saw "9 pages" of discussion - i was awstruck! Last time, when i was here we were in 3rd. After going thru the left over pages, one thing mused me a lot - posts of  minuteman. Totally confused !! Khayr, minuteman, that hadith was quoted from there books. Now, go thru it again, u shall understand .

H300, you are here since very few months.  and am sure must not have gone thru all posts of Bro. Sasha {Whisper}. So you doubt him. Let me tell you, he is one of the esteemed personalities. He has not just seen the world, around, but also experienced it. Anyways, i cannot force you or command you to respect him, but yes, we do trust his talk of grand pa.

When i read you at other section, last months, i was happy with the thought that we have a good member. Your answers were nearly perfect. But i don't understand why are you defending these ahmadis ? Either, you are still in its first page or must not have confronted any Qadiyani. You must be still be studying Qadiyanism . Right now, for us, you are defender of Qadiyanism here.

Coming to your question of first page, let me answer you, they do hold respect for our Prophet , atleast in those lines. And they believe, that Prophet {saws} was Khataman nabi, but as far as i know you, you atleast have knowledge that apart from Qur'an we have many hadiths, which state that Prophet was also last messenger of Allah swt. Do you think all our great  scholars, who interpreted that verse, that Muhammad {SAWS}, was last Prophet as well as messenger{Khataman nabiyeen}, are wrong and on the other side only, Mirza Ghulam has exactly interpreted that verse ?  I wish you go thru those hadiths, which clearly state that Prophet {saws} was last messenger as well.

Now, again, why did you limit to only  one  page of there book ? Did you not read , how they demean our other Prophet of Allah swt, Isa AS ? As a muslim we are to hold respect for all prophets . Then why did he write such vulgar about Isa AS ? I challenge you, if we leave a qadiyani, in the midst of christians, they shall leave him out only when gets red / black. Shud we not hate those people, who hold wrong and so bad beliefs of Isa AS ?

You answered just second and third of my questions. But not the first and  fourth. As a muslim, do you believe that Isa AS died ? Does Qur'an say so ? Did you not read in the hadiths about coming of Isa AS. He shall abide the shariah of Prophet Muhammad. While, those people believe that the coming of Isa AS ? What made you to paste those links, which perhaps hold up up views that ,Isa AS, died in India , while you as a muslim must be holding the belief that he was raised in heavens ? Do all these not depict and rise doubts that you are a qadiyani ? Why is your support to them so immense ?

You said, i referred to anti-ahmedi site, Well, i had to, since all there books i have are in urdu. But again, i challenge none of those verses quoted from there books are wrong.

Don't you know, that they hold the belief that Qur'an is incomplete revelation ?

 
They say that Mirza is the second incarnation of Prophet Muhammad {Sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} and you want us to love such followers of imposter ? Shud we state such people as muslims ?


These Qadiyanis  reject authentic Hadith based on Mirza's alleged revelations and teaches his personal interpretation of the Holy Quran. You must be knowing that he  has forged several unauthentic translations of the Holy Quran to try to confuse and mislead uninformed individuals.. ANd i guess you are either that person, or the one who is highly influenced by them.

If they belong to muslim community, then why do they forbid marriages to the followers of  Muhammad {Pbuh}. Infact, when they hold respect for our Prophet {Pbuh}, they shud, be ready for such marriages . Is this an act of Muslim ?  A reader may not suppress his laugh, when reads that they believe, all the praises made by Allah swt for the Prophet Muhammad, were actually intended for this Mirza !! And u say we shud n't hate such liars, while our blood  boils !

If they are muslims, why did they set up there own Makkah and Medinah as place of there hajj ?
 
I wish instead of you suggesting me to go thru there books, you go thru them and yes, don't limit them to one page or get exaggerated by there lines for our Prophet. They are infact, rejectors of sayings of Prophet.

These people are like slow poisons. In the name of Islam,  they are just ruining the aakhirah of ignorant people, convincing them thru money, and other incentives. As, i said, in the southern parts of India, they were just slow posions. Though it were late while realising the threat, but alhamdullilah, we were not too late. We had to work very hard, to bring back our innocent muslim brothers, and made them declare shahadahs, made public aware and alert of such people, despite there plans to foil our programmes. Alhamdullilah, Allah swt was sufficient for us..

 You want us not to hate such people who create fitnahs !

You call our efforts to expose the beliefs of imposter as devilish ?

My dear brother, its not just me who is to seek hidayah. It is all of us who are in need of it. There is only one path that is righteous. Pray Allah swt that He bestows us hidayah to be over that righteous path, which may lead us to heaven.

Regards.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 1:03am

And now, i shall answer my own question, which i wished to gets it answered from you. Infact its an effort to bring awareness among our muslim brothers and sisters, that if  they happen to confront people of such faith, do not get into there sweet talks. Secondly, its an effort to help our non-muslim brothers and sisters to not get into any dielema, after reading this thread.  I wished  H300 to share with us as how that Mirza met his end. There was a debate between a muslim scholar, Saifullah { i guess i remember his name correct, or must be SanaUllah}, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. In that debate , this Mirza,  himself prayed Allah swt,   that if he were  a liar and forged lies as people say then he shall persih during the life time of Sanaullah/.Saifullah.   But if he were correct , and he praised himself to be indeed truthful, messenger of Allah swt, then Saifullah, shud die in his life time. He also prayed that , the liar and the corruptor, shud die with either cholera or plague. Later after the debate was over, he declared that his prayer was indeed a revelation from Allah swt .

 Here, all the muslims gathered and used  to offer  tahajjuds and pray Allah swt, that if He has destined Sanaullah's death before the death of this imposter, then please extend it. If Sanaullah, dies as per his destiny if, before Mirza, then people get into the trap of that imposter. They prayed nights together. And finally, perhaps within a month or fifteen days of that debate, Mirza Ghulam died suffering badly from cholera.

 Let's review the record of Mirza's death as recounted by his closest followers and actual witnesses to his death.

Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography:

"My mother informed me that 'the first attack of looseness of bowels upon the Promised Messiah occurred when he was at his dining room table.  Later, I started pressing his legs and he lay in comfort and slept and soon I too slept. After a short while, he again felt the call of nature and he used the bathroom a couple of times without awakening me, After this he felt very weak; he shook me up and laid down on my bed.  I recommenced pressing. In a few minutes he told me to go to bed but I refused and continued to press.  Once again he had an urge and, being too weak to go to the lavatory, I made arrangement for him close to the bed.  He sat down and relieved himself.  Next, he laid himself back on my bed and I started pressing again. His weakness grew intense; he had another motion, accompanied this time by vomiting.  This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post.  His condition alarmed me...'."

  (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)

Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing!  It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of. Now, H300, can u kindly check if the reference is correct or not ? It shall insha Allah, satisfy you. Else i have its translation, i shall get it scanned for you. Do let me know, if u can read urdu.

I hope our readers, who must have got disturbed with this discussion, might have got a clear picture of  haq and baatil..

May Allah swt guide all of us. Ameen



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 2:13am
 
  Seeks, forget your long posts and return to Allah and his messenger. See below: (I had told you a Hadith before. But you never considered it.) Please judge in the light of all information and reply about the  mentioned Ahadith. I do not call any Muslim as kafir.
 
 

The prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. said, " The base of Islam is on five things:

1. To say that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.

2. To pray five times a day. i.e establish Salat.

3. To pay the poor rate i.e. Zakat.

4. To fast during the month of Ramadhan (Saum).

5. To peform Hajj once in life time if situation allows."

Bukhari Kitab al Eiman.

==========================================

Hazrat Abi Malik narrated from his father that the prophet said," Whoever affirmed that there is no God but Allah and he denied all the other dieties which are being worshipped then his life and honor and material are to be respected. His rest of affairs are for Allah to decide."

Muslim Kitab ul Eiman.

=========================================

During a war, Usama r.a. killed an apparant non muslim whom he had subdued after long struggle. When he was about to killed,That man said "La Ila ha Illa Allah".(There is no God but Allah).

Osama killed him. When he came back and related the incident to the prophet, the prophet was very much upset and displeased with Osama. Osama r.a. was also very sorry for what he did and felt (wished) that he himself had not become a Muslim before that day.

(Bukhari Kitab al Maghazi)

=============================================



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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 2:22am
Abu Jehl had seen the prophet s.a.w.s. Did he miss anything. He saw everything. But he did not believe. He was called Abu Hikmah (The father of wisdom). He missed  all the proofs of the prophthood of Muhammad.
 
Yaar thank you very much. I am sorry if I sounded a bit harsh on you, but by quoting this are you trying to tell me that I missed the signs of Mirza's prophethood?
 
But the problem is that why did he not come up for the Munazara (challenge) three times and then also hired a mushtanda (goon) for getting this man's head chopped off? Allah da Karam hoya ke saday bandiaa'n nay mushtanda phar gatheya tay uss dia'n tangaa'n torre chadiyaa'n. (it was merely by His Kindness that our people caught that goon and broke his legs off)
 
Just please be clear. Are you trying to post this chap as some nabi?  


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 2:43am
H300, you are here since very few months.  and am sure must not have gone thru all posts of Bro. Sasha {Whisper}. So you doubt him. Let me tell you, he is one of the esteemed personalities. He has not just seen the world, around, but also experienced it. Anyways, i cannot force you or command you to respect him, but yes, we do trust his talk of grand pa.
 
My brother, you don't have to worry on this man's account at all. He is one of that kind that can not afford respect. You know, it's a known fact that we can respect someone only and when we have some respect, just if we are ourselves respectable.
 
How can we ever give someone something that we don't ourselves have?
 
No use posting any sensible materials for these people at all. Just sit bye and watch their jugglery. They are jugglers. possibly, from that triangle that has thrown up 92% of Ahmadis. That heart of Punjaub that has welcome nd accepted each and every invader since 223 BC. A whole 17 of them in these 2000 years. It's a world record.
 
Please don't worry about them, they will be gone before next monsoon like all those other insects.


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 5:13am
Originally posted by Sign*Reader

Originally posted by H3OO

The Prophet of Ahmadiiya community stated with regrads to Holy prophet (pbuh)

The person who was above all, and was a perfect man, and a perfect prophet, and who came with the fullness of blessings, through whom, on account of his spiritual advent and the spiritual resurrection that he brought about, the first judgment manifested itself and a whole universe that was dead was revived, that blessed prophet Khatamul Anbiya, Leader of the elect, Katamul Mursileen, Pride of the Prophets was Muhammad Mustafa, peace and the blessings of Allah by upon him. (Itmamul Hujjah, p.28)

He claimed:

Allah is Glorious, Allah is Glorious; what a high station was that of the Khatamul Anbiya, the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Glory be to Allah, what high degree of light was his. (Braheen Ahmadiyya, p.246)

My belief that I hold in this life and with which, by the grace of Allah, I shall pass on from this world is that our lord and master, Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, was Khataman Nabiyyeen and the best of Messengers. (Izala Auham, part I, p.137)

He declared:

I believe in the Khatam-i-Nabuwat of the Khatamul Anbjya, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and consider one who denies the Khatam-i-Nabuwat as faithless and outside the pale of Islam. (Taqreer Wajabul llan, 1891)

He has stated:

My belief is that our Holy Prophet is better and more exalted than all the Messengers and is Khataman Nabiyyeen. (Ayenah Kamalat Islam, p.327)

He has declared:

I believe that our Holy Prophet, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is more exalted than all the Messengers and is the Khatamul Anbiya. (Hamamatul Bushra, p.8)

He has affirmed:

I believe truly and perfectly in the verse which says: 'But he was the Messenger of Allah and Khataman Nabiyyeen'. (Ek Ghati Ka Izala)

He has stated:

I call Allah, the Glorious, to witness that I am not a disbeliever. My doctrine is that there is no one worthy of worship save Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah . I believe concerning him that he was the Messenger of Allah and the Khataman Nabiyyeen. I affirm the truth of this statement with as many oaths as are the Holy names of Allah and as are the letters of the Holy Quran and as is the number of the excellencies of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. No belief of mine is contrary to the commands of Allah and His Messenger. He who imagines anything contrary to this labors under a mis-conception. (Karamatus Sadiqeen, p.25)


so its clear they do consider Prophet (pbuh) 

Khatamul Anbiya but just the difference of interpretation.




You are spamming in violation of the guidelines of the forum indicated how lawful is your thinking!
You have copied  and pasted from the official website of the Ahmedia community giving a false impression of your own scholarship!

How can you make a case being a Qadiani Spammer!

You comments and future threads need to be watched by all Muslim members of this forum!
This is unconscionable and you owe an apology for getting the Ahmedia propaganda site in here edgewise without mentioning its reference! 
Shame on you amigo/freund/yar for being so deceptive!
Is that how your parents and teachers taught you to plagiarize!


My dear friend if  u read the end of every claim mentioned above u will find a reference in brackets (in blue).

secondly look at the 1st line , i clearly stated that the Prophet of Ahmadiiya community states and subsequently it is mentioned clearly that their prophet stated the following claims and definitely its a thing of common sense that im going to post their claims from their books or website and not from anywhere else. do i need to give any more reference.

 I had no idea that this will also become an issue.
 So plz dont try to make an issue out of nothing to distract from the main points.

maybe u are running out of ideas thats why u are now picking these irrelevant things.
Thanks


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 5:15am
 
I don't understand minuteman, if it is your innocence or Ignorance.

U ignored my post with the thought that its - Long post. But if you read it, u shall come to know that they believe that Mirza Ghulam is an incarnation of Prophet Muhammad {Sallall Lahu alayhi wa sallam}. - Nauzbillah. And when they recite shahadah - it is evident that for him that ‘La ilaha illallah Muhammad ur Rasulullah’ means ‘La ilaha illallah mirza Rasulullah’ who (Muhammad ur Rasulullah) has been reincarnated in Qadiyan. (Allah protect us from this sacrilege) . Did u get it ?

Let us look at the state of an imposter during Prophet Muhammad {saws}. You know al-Aswad, an apostate. When he claimed himself to be a prophet, Prophet {saws} despatched about ten of Iris companions with letters to those of his companions in the Yemen whom he felt he could trust. He urged them to confront the blind fitnah with faith and resolve, and he ordered them to get rid of al-Aswad by any means possible. This was the reaction of our Prophet.

Don't u know that , acc to Qur'an a believer {Momin}  believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. But do these qadians believe in Isa AS ?

When u read the first part of Surah Baqrah, u shall come across the category of munafiqs, who are termed as kafirs. They say Prophet {saws} that we believe in you. They are pure kafirs. Read Qur'an you shall understand.You know, these qadiyanis, our Islam in moulds of Kufr. They label bottles of alcohol as zam-zam, dog's carrion is halal for them. *****!!!

Now, even ifyou do not understand it, then let me remind you, i do not hold much patience. You can see it in my next post.It shall be enough for you to read, as how Prophet {pbuh}  ordered to get rid of an imposter as soon as possible, during his time. Al-aswad, did not deny our Prophet but claimed himself to be a prophet, as your dear nabi Mirza claimed.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 7:42am
[QUOTE=seekshidayath]
 
I don't understand minuteman, if it is your innocence or Ignorance.

U ignored my post with the thought that its - Long post. But if you read it, u shall come to know that they believe that Mirza Ghulam is an incarnation of Prophet Muhammad {Sallall Lahu alayhi wa sallam}. - Nauzbillah. And when they recite shahadah - it is evident that for him that ‘La ilaha illallah Muhammad ur Rasulullah’ means ‘La ilaha illallah mirza Rasulullah’ who (Muhammad ur Rasulullah) has been reincarnated in Qadiyan. (Allah protect us from this sacrilege) . Did u get it ?

 I do not believe that is true. Ask any Qadiyani about Rasool Allah, he/she will say Muhammad ibne Abdullah. So your information may be faulty.
 
Let us look at the state of an imposter during Prophet Muhammad {saws}. You know al-Aswad, an apostate. When he claimed himself to be a prophet, Prophet {saws} despatched about ten of Iris companions with letters to those of his companions in the Yemen whom he felt he could trust. He urged them to confront the blind fitnah with faith and resolve, and he ordered them to get rid of al-Aswad by any means possible. This was the reaction of our Prophet.
 
 As I know, Musailmah came to Madinah with some force during the time of the prophet s.a.w.s. and proposed something before the prophet that he should be made a shareholder in the prophethood.
 
 He met the prophet. The prophet picked up a straw from the ground and told him that he (prophet) would not give Musailmah even a straw worth of aything. So Musailmah went away.
After the passing away of the prophet, many tribes revolted. Musailamh also revolted and declared his prophethood. Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique r.a. sent an expedition against him because he was ready with large force to attack Madinah. Musailmah kazzab was killed in the battle.
 
 That was the end of the imposter.
 

Don't u know that , acc to Qur'an a believer {Momin}  believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. But do these qadians believe in Isa AS ?

 
 I do not know. I suppose that they believe in all the prophets that all the Muslims believe in. Why they should not believe in Isa a.s.?
 
When u read the first part of Surah Baqrah, u shall come across the category of munafiqs, who are termed as kafirs. They say Prophet {saws} that we believe in you. They are pure kafirs. Read Qur'an you shall understand.You know, these qadiyanis, our Islam in moulds of Kufr. They label bottles of alcohol as zam-zam, dog's carrion is halal for them. *****!!!
 
 I do not believe what you are saying.  kafir is different to Munafiq. In Sura Baqarah, three groups are described, 1. The Muttaqueen,   2.  The Kafireen. 3. The Munafiqueen. They are all separate.
 

Now, even ifyou do not understand it, then let me remind you, i do not hold much patience. You can see it in my next post.It shall be enough for you to read, as how Prophet {pbuh}  ordered to get rid of an imposter as soon as possible, during his time. Al-aswad, did not deny our Prophet but claimed himself to be a prophet, as your dear nabi Mirza claimed.

  You do not have any patience. is that a good thing?You are advised by the Quran to stick to the right thing (haqq) and stick to patience (Sabr). Be careful and gentle. The prophet s.a.w.s. had maximum patience and he worked with the kafirs all the time. Why Can't you?
 
 And you have not replied to the Ahadith that are the sayings of the prophet s.a.w.s. that I have presented to you. Please do it. What do you understand by those advisory words of the prophet s.a.w.s.?
 
 Leave Mirza alone. Speak about the words of the prophet s.a.w.s. Thanks.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 8:05am
i clearly stated that the Prophet of Ahmadiiya community states
What can I call you that would not get me banned in IC?
I have told you a hndred times that before you list anyone, any bastard, as a Nabi you have to produce proof of your assertions.
 
You are exactly the same as your Nabi. You want me to spell it out?
 
Why did your effing Nabi run awau when he was being given a chance to establish his credentials. SIMPLY because thye bastard had none. Understand? Or shall I spell it out in the type of language used by your effing Nabi?


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Sasha Khanzadeh


Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 11:19am
reply to seekshidayath
H300, you are here since very few months.  and am sure must not have gone thru all posts of Bro. Sasha {Whisper}. So you doubt him. Let me tell you, he is one of the esteemed personalities. He has not just seen the world, around, but also experienced it. Anyways, i cannot force you or command you to respect him, but yes, we do trust his talk of grand pa.

SEEKSHIDAYATH how much esteemed whisper is, is clearly evident from his replies. no sensible muslim who in true  follows islam will ever behave as whisper is doing here. Atleast the good thing about discussing such topics is that it exposes the inner self of such persons as we are witnessing by the language he is using in his replies
and u can trust his Grand pa but sorry i'll not be made fool here. I am clearly aware of the false propaganda that is carried out in enmity, hatred just to put down others.


Do you think all our great  scholars, who interpreted that verse, that Muhammad {SAWS}, was last Prophet as well as messenger{Khataman nabiyeen}, are wrong and on the other side only, Mirza Ghulam has exactly interpreted that verse ?
If there prophet turns out to be a true one, than definitely his interpretation has to be the accurate one as compared to scholars bcz the scholars were no prophets and they can be wrong and he can be wrong too but im only saying if he in the end turns out to be true one. and  some muslim scholars are mentioned on page one who interpretated the seal of prophets just like ahmedis interpret.
and thats what ahmedis believe that the the purpose of a prophet/imam mehdi after prophet[sa]  is to remove the erroneous interpretations/concepts that has creeped into our teachings and teach the the right meaning/interpretation which we have surly lost today due to lots of misinterpretations of some of our scholars. No one knows who is right and who is wrong and prophet will clarify that. does makes sense to me.

Did you not read , how they demean our other Prophet of Allah swt, Isa AS ? As a muslim we are to hold respect for all prophets . Then why did he write such vulgar about Isa AS ?

To my knowledge they believe in and respect all prophets and their books. Plz mention where he wrote vulgar about Isa[as].

I challenge you, if we leave a qadiyani, in the midst of christians, they shall leave him out only when gets red / black.
Now this is very important that Then atleast this very concept of ahmedis being creation of British Govt is falsified by ur very own statement. Why would British create a nabi to badmouth their own nabi. I hope u give a thought to this and hope now we stop calling them a creation of Brit.
as it is pretty much common sense that if ahmedis were working under the power of US or British, then they would speak highly of Hazrat Isa[as] even more than prophet[sa] to impress their masters and not speak against him.

If they belong to muslim community, then why do they forbid marriages to the followers of  Muhammad {Pbuh}.
They allow their men to marry a Muslim women but disallow a women to marry a muslim man on the very same basis as islam allows a muslim man to marry a nonmuslim woman BUT
do not allow a  muslim woman to marry a nonmuslim men. U know the reason why and i guess the same very reason can be applied here.

Just imagine if whisper marries an ahmedi women, would he allow her to keep believe in their imam mehdi. every day he is going to badmouth her prophet and make life difficut for her and so this problem will also effect the children. Im sure it does makes sense and u wouldnt disagree.


They say that Mirza is the second incarnation of Prophet Muhammad {Sallal lahu alayhi wasallam}
Now this has to be again very very wrong and u have been mislead by some of our maulvis.

From thier site;
It was in 1891 in Qadian that Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) received repeated revelations that Jesus (as) of Nazareth, in whose second advent both the Muslims and Christians believed, had died a natural death and that what was meant by his second advent was that a person should appear in the spirit of Jesus and that he himself was that person, the Promised Messiah (as)...

So they might say that the imam mehdi is the second incarnation of Hazrat Isa[as] but by no way prophet[sa].

and there  shahadah is clearly ‘La ilaha illallah Muhammad ur Rasulullah’ as ours and not what u are stating. plz dont make things of ur own. U say it is evident, state how it is evident. how are u so convincingly saying that their ‘La ilaha illallah Muhammad ur Rasulullah’ means something else. or are u trying to state that u know what is in their hearts, i hope u are not, so plz dont do this.

cont.....




Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 12:11pm
repy to seekshidayth
Bashir Ahmad, the son of Mirza Ghulam, wrote in his biography:

.....This paralyzed him so much that when trying to lay back on the bed, he fell on his back and hit his head on the bed post.  His condition alarmed me...'."

  (Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 1, P. 11-12; Sirat-ul-Mehdi, P.109)



Seekshidayath this is what happens when u take materials from anti ahmedi websites.

U have taken this material as to death of their imam mehdi from an anti- ahmedi website and when u dont do the study urself and blindly accept others word, then u are only going to go one way and that is the way of being badly mislead.

I would like  to state something about Rohanni Khazain. Their imam mehdi wrote about eighty books and these books have been assembled into 23 volumes under the name of  Rohanni Khazain. So Rohanni Khazain  contains only the writings of their imam mehdi ( and  that also in his original hand writing and not a computer typed writing) and no one else. so i would like to know that what is the biography of Hazrat Bashir Ahmad doing in Rohanzi Khazain.

U see this is all false propaganda and innocents like u fall trap to it. bcz these people know that no one is going to do the trouble to study the Rohanni Khazain themselves to find out whether it is actually taken from there. whether that reference is correct.

I can give u a link to the down load of Rohanni Khazain vol 1(22mb) and u can try to find out that statement all day u mentioned and this should be enough to expose these people.



Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 12:18pm
seekshidayath

Im sure u are aware of what people can do in enmity, in hatred.

As stated before but looks like u missed it that I can paste here no. of websites in which one will be shocked to hear what the non muslims associate with prophet[pbuh], the things we cannot even imagine but u know it shows the nature of human being that in hatred they become so much blind that they forget all there moral limits. but definitely that doesnt mean we accept it as true or do we?

so plz do not give any importance to such things, these all are the voice of devils, the devil inside the man. God show them the right path. amen
This is the true Hidayath and many needs it.
am sure any good person who in true follow islam will not reject it.


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 29 September 2008 at 1:31pm
Brothers, let's forget about this chap in toto.
He is just trying to tire you out with one sided propoganda. He is a troll as Sign*Reader has rightly discovered him. He is just a Qadyani sob.
 
Has he ever answered any questions or addressed any concerns like why do the qadyani bastards treat all non-Qadyanis as un-Muslims?
 
Plus, he keeps listing Mirza as a prophet without providing us any proof of his prophethood. That blighter had not showed up for a munazara three timer. Period. Now as that is the sore point in their history this troll is making all sorts of excuses to steer clear off my grand father.
 
It will take me no more than a couple of weeks to find out who he is from one end of the world or the other.


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Sasha Khanzadeh



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