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Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Prophets - Jesus
Forum Discription: Prophets - Jesus
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132
Printed Date: 22 December 2014 at 10:29am


Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified?
Posted By: Nausheen
Subject: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified?
Date Posted: 14 March 2005 at 4:01pm

Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (1 of 11), Read 63 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?20034 - DavidC mailto: -
Date: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:03 AM

Don't forget that the crucifixion was performed by the
Roman soldiers - a highly disciplined people. Considering
the miraculous nature of Isa I am not going to to discount
some miracle may have occurred.

But this simplistic explanation makes little sense when
one considers the Roman centurions.

DavidC
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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (2 of 11), Read 47 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?20034 - DavidC mailto: -
Date: Monday, December 27, 2004 06:15 AM

Islamforever, our differences are small compared to our
mutual respect of Jesus and Muhummad. There are many
levels of understanding the meaning of Jesus - far too
many to restrict ourselves to such historical fine
points when we have so much in common.

So many of my Muslim friends here have a respect for
Jesus - I can't name all of them - I'm sure we could all
have a wonderful disucssion. Even in disagreement,
disucssion with you all is a pleasure.

DavidC

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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (3 of 11), Read 57 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?20034 - DavidC mailto: -
Date: Monday, December 27, 2004 11:40 AM

I think we agree on just about everything. I also believe
Muhummad was a prophet of God, and that there is only
one God.

The Trinity is an unnecessary elaboration. We all know
God can do whatever he wishes. He has appeared on
earth before, in the form of a buring bush which spoke to
Moses. We also know from biblical and Quranic sources
Jesus performed amazing miracles, including raising the
dead and being born of a virgin. As the prophet predicted
to oversee the end of time Jesus is exceptional. A son
(extension) of God? A point for scholars but of little real
world importance.

The Trinity concept overall has confused more people
than it has helped. Many Christian sects ecschew the
entire idea, preferring a more Islamic conception of
monotheism. I think that is probably the more sensible
idea.

DavidC
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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (4 of 11), Read 54 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?23202 - fezziwig mailto: -
Date: Monday, December 27, 2004 12:55 PM

On 12/27/2004 12:24:00 PM, Islamforever >...And God, you
>said can do anything, but lets
>not go to the point where we
>blaspheme and say that he does
>ungodly things as far as
>becoming a man.

You are mistaken in this dichotomy. Whatever god does is godly.

>...If God becomes
>a man he seizes to be God.

So YOU say. God, of course, says differently in the bible.

Beware of making the blaspheme of dictating terms to god.

F
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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (5 of 11), Read 48 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?20034 - DavidC mailto: -
Date: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 08:26 AM

Jesus was the ultimate demonstrationof love and humility.

There are Sufi stories about the king who dressed up like
his subjects in order to properly assess the state of his
kingdom.

I do not want to argue with you Islamforever - you
obviously have a personal relationship with Jesus and his
Sharia plays a part in your faith. That makes me joyous,
even if you do not belive as I do. I am only trying to make
my opinion known, and show it is not as absurd as some
maks it out to be.

Islam is a marvelous religion that has taught me much
about Christianity. I would not want to change one iota of
your belief, but only to understand mine.
DavidC

======================================================

Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (6 of 11), Read 46 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?20034 - DavidC mailto: -
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 07:29 AM

It's all about understanding, not convincing. I have always
congratulated those who announced their Islamic
reversions here, because submission to God is so much
more important than the specifics.

DavidC

==============================================

Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (7 of 11), Read 27 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?62359 - Janah mailto:islamgaril@yahoo.com - islamgaril@yahoo.com
Date: Sunday, January 02, 2005 04:53 PM


Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”

[al-Nisa’ 4:157]

Rather the problem rests with the Christians for whom the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of their religion.

It is strange that they differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this fabrication.

There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.

They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?

Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?

They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?

Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?

At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?

What happened after the so-called crucifixion?

Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”

But John does not know anything about all that!

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”

[al-Nisa’ 4:82]

Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”

Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.

We will complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:

On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:

“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”

John 7:33-34 – NIV

Elsewhere he says:

“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’

This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’

But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’

‘Who are you?’ they asked.

‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.

So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”

John 8:21-29 – NIV

Then at the end he tells them again:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'”

Matthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35

The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.

“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

John 16:32-33

Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):

“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads

and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’

In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”

Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV

But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):

“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’

He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.

Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’

Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.


He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’

When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …

So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”

Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV

Luke describes the scene and says:

“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”

Luke 22:44-46 – NIV

Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:

“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV

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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (8 of 11), Read 24 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Sunday, January 02, 2005 08:31 PM

Mary goes to touch Jesus (pbuh) and he says, John 20: 15, 16,17 " Touch me not,for I have not yet ascended unto my father." In the language of the Jews at that time, it would mean, he has not yet been dead. Moreover, he may have suffered but did not die or was not crucified on the cross, thus falsifying the alleged crucifixion.


Jesus's (pbuh) deciples were overjoyed to see him cause they heard from here say that he had died on the cross and resurrected, and since they know already that resurrected bodies are angelized they thought he was a spirit so they were terrified and thought he was a spirit. So Jesus (pbuh) he clarified that doubt by saying. "Behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has no flesh and bones like you see me have". They we're not eyewitness according to Mark 14:50, " and they all (Deciples) fled and left him at the seen.

Since Jesus Died and resurrected, resurrected bodies are spiritualized, Luke 20:35-36 why would Jesus (pbuh) be afraid of the Jews if he was spiritualized? Meaning that he was not dead, only a fleshly body would be afraid of the Jews thus disguising himself as a Gardener-Carpenter to hide from the Jews. If they see that he didn't really die, they would try again, that's why Jesus (pbuh) remained disguised and forever hiding.


John 19:33-34 " But when they came to Jesus (pbuh) and saw that he was already dead, SAW, that he was already dead, they did not bother to break his bones", and that's a fulfillment of prophecy that his leg will not be broken. 34, "but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed and Gushed out," (sign of life) which means that he had life in his body. According to the soldiers he "appeared" to be dead so therefore Jesus' (pbuh) leg would not be of any use only if Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE.

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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (9 of 11), Read 28 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Sunday, January 02, 2005 08:34 PM

According to Psalms 118:17-18 which states " I shall not die but live and declare the deeds of the lord." 18 also states, "The lord chastised me harshly, but did not hand me over to death." This verse goes side by side with the prophecy of Matthews 12:38-40.

THE PROOF WE HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR...

In the encyclopedia Biblica, under the article "Cross," Column 960 says, "When the spare was thrust, Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE."

German Scientists who carried out experiments on the "Shroud of Turin" said that the heart of Jesus had not stopped functioning — that he was ALIVE!

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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (10 of 11), Read 27 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63666 - Abuisa mailto:e_lynx_i@yahoo.com - e_lynx_i@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 01:15 PM

I was just wondering DaividC r u a Muslim or not? if u r then alhamdullillah and if u r not y? u believe that Muhammed (pbuh) is a prophet and u believe in the one God. this was just something that i thought about when reading these posts.

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Topic: Was Christ (pbuh) really Crucified? (11 of 11), Read 17 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Friday, January 07, 2005 09:22 AM

In the encyclopedia Biblica, under the article "Cross," Column 960 says, "When the spare was thrust, Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE."



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.



Replies:
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 14 March 2005 at 4:05pm
Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified. (1 of 1), Read 15 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?64008 - adilahmed1 mailto:firefutures20@hotmail.com - firefutures20@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:21 PM

Christ was not crucified! According to the quran, he was lifted my Allah(god) into the heavens, and guy who chased him, Allah changed this face and impression into Jesus(pbuh). The man that chased Jesus was known to be a Jew, according to the quran, I believe so.

That is why in the quran it mentions that Jesus well someday be sent down from the heavens to complete his life. It makes perfect sense, a man who has not died and sent directly to heaven is just not possible.



-------------
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 14 March 2005 at 4:10pm
Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (1 of 8), Read 35 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?64008 - adilahmed1 mailto:firefutures20@hotmail.com - firefutures20@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:44 PM

Another sensible reason why Christ(pbuh) was not crucified is because, Allah would never let his prophet be tortured and crucified.

For example, Ibraham(phuh) was a prophet of Allah, and when he was young boy, during his time people worshiped idols, so what he did was he took a stick and broke all the idols in the store, when people came to an understanding that Ibraham broke the idols, the people in the town decided to throw in the fire and burn him alive. Just before they threw him in the fire, Allah, cooled down the flames, and Ibraham(pbuh) never burned and people where in shock.

So, if Allah didn't let Ibraham burn in fire, how could Allah let Jesus(pbuh) get crucified. Especially, christians believe that he is the son of god, if that is true according to christians, how can a father let his son get brutally crucified. It doesn't make any sense.

There are so many stories of diffent prophets, that could have suffered a massive pain. And Allah didn't let it happen. So, there is no way he will let Christ suffer the pain of crucification.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (2 of 8), Read 26 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2005 07:36 PM

Yes, it also states in the Bible itself, Acts 1:3 it states, " He presented himself ALIVE to them with many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." which proves Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE. When you are alive you rise, when you die you resurrect.

In Hebrews 5:7, even Paul confirms that his supplications did not fall on deaf ears it states " In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence." Which means he was saved from being killed, Al-hamdulillah.

I have so much answers to this so called death of Christ pbuh that I could give a Four hour lecture on CNN commanding the attention of all christians one given sunday night to really strengthen their belief in our prophet and Messenger, pubh.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (2 of 8), Read 26 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2005 07:36 PM

Yes, it also states in the Bible itself, Acts 1:3 it states, " He presented himself ALIVE to them with many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." which proves Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE. When you are alive you rise, when you die you resurrect.

In Hebrews 5:7, even Paul confirms that his supplications did not fall on deaf ears it states " In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence." Which means he was saved from being killed, Al-hamdulillah.

I have so much answers to this so called death of Christ pbuh that I could give a Four hour lecture on CNN commanding the attention of all christians one given sunday night to really strengthen their belief in our prophet and Messenger, pubh.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (3 of 8), Read 30 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2005 07:39 PM

According to the book of Mark, 15:44, "Pilate was amazed that Jesus (pbuh) was already dead. He summoned the centurion and asked him if Jesus (pbuh) had already died. he knew no man can die within three hours on the cross. Because this crucifixion was to be a slow, lingering death. Pilate knew from his own experience that death on the cross doesn't occur in such a short time. Since it occurred in such time, pilate marvels and just gives the body over to Joseph" of Arimathea. Pilate Knew that Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE because of the time that he was taken down from the cross, but didn't say anything due to the fact that he was in favor of Jesus (pbuh) and that he didn't want them to know that he still had life in his body. And In many respects, the timing of Jesus' death is a bit too opportune.
According to the system in vogue Gospels, pastors, evangelist, preachers and Christians, Jesus was on the cross for three hours, which means that he was taken down from the cross on the third hour. In three hours, a person can't and wouldn't die from being nailed to a cross. its physically impossible for a person to die of crucifixion from being nailed to a cross on the third hour. Moreover Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE!

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (4 of 8), Read 28 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?17736 - Angel mailto: -
Date: Friday, January 07, 2005 02:13 AM


"What experience & history teach is this: that people & governments have never learned anything from history".

~Please dont frown! For you never know who may be falling in love with your smile!~
------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------------

Islamforever, don't forget Jesus supposedly has carried his cross thru the streets and had the crown of thorns onhis head, And if there is much blood lose, then thebody would be weak. So really really depending on the amount of blood lose, Jesus could've died in 3 hours.
It depends on how weak or strong the body is and this we don't reall have an acount for.


Angel.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (5 of 8), Read 28 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Friday, January 07, 2005 04:11 PM

1. I hope your not implying that the "Crown" could have contributed a lot of blood loss to Jesus pbuh. If we follow that logic just for the sake of argument. Are you saying that Allah would save two other dieing men from the cross and leave Jesus pbuh to die? Its almost like you're adding on to a myth that is already in the ground sister. I've read a lot of your posts and I know that you're more intelligent than that. Your actually saying indirectly that when Jesus pbuh prayed to Allah, Allah didn't answer his prayers? I don't think Allah would ignore is servant's cry. German Scientists who carried out experiments on the "Shroud of Turin" said that the heart of Jesus had not stopped functioning — that he was ALIVE!
According to Psalms 118:17-18 which states " I shall not die but live and declare the deeds of the lord." 18 also states, "The lord chastised me harshly, but did not hand me over to death." This verse goes side by side with the prophecy of Matthews 12:38-40 Moreover, in John 19:33-34 " But when they came to Jesus pbuh and saw that he was already dead, SAW, that he was already dead, they did not bother to break his bones", and that's a fulfillment of prophecy that his leg will not be broken. 34, "but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed and Gushed out," (sign of life) which means that he had life in his body. According to the soldiers he appeared<<----- to be dead so therefore Jesus' pbuh leg would not be of any use only if Jesus pbuh was ALIVE.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (6 of 8), Read 25 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?17736 - Angel mailto: -
Date: Friday, January 07, 2005 02:15 AM


On 1/6/2005 7:36:00 PM, Islamforever wrote:
>Yes, it also states in the
>Bible itself, Acts 1:3 it
>states, " He presented himself
>ALIVE to them with many proofs
>after he had suffered,
>appearing to them during forty
>days and speaking about the
>kingdom of God." which proves
>Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE. When
>you are alive you rise, when
>you die you resurrect.

Is it not that the Soul or spirit is alive while the phyiscal body is dead?


Angel.

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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (7 of 8), Read 32 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?63880 - Islamforever mailto:islamforever@comcast.net - islamforever@comcast.net
Date: Saturday, January 08, 2005 07:18 PM

No Angel, that I will answer Logically with tremendous intricate detail with no emotional theological explanations. And please read it all. Jesus pbuh never died period! After suffering on the cross he appears In the upper room and he shows his hands and feet, Luke 24:35-36 "behold its me, handle my hands and see, for a spirit has no flesh and bones, like you see me have" And he say, "do you have anything to eat." (Do spirits eat?) Which means he was ALIVE and not dead cause when you die and resurrect you would be a spiritual body as said in Luke 20:35-36, 1 Corintians 15:42-44 and also Hebrews 5:27

And no, he didn't die at all, this is just an assumption which can logically be falsified with the help of reason logics and science with an open mind.

In the encyclopedia Biblica, under the article "Cross," Column 960 says, "When the spare was thrust, Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE."

Jesus's (pbuh) deciples were overjoyed to see him casue they heard from heresay that he had died on the cross and resurrected, and since they know already that resurrected bodies are angelized they thought he was a spirit so they were terrified and thought he was a spirit. So Jesus (pbuh) he clarified that doubt by saying. "Behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has no flesh and bones like you see me have". They we're not eyewitness according to Mark 14:50, " and they all (Deciples) fled and left him at the seen.

In Acts 1:3 it states, " He presented himself ALIVE to them with many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." which proves Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE.

Disguise is only possible or necessary if he was physicalized and ALIVE, thus stating that resurrected bodies are spiritualized and not physicalized. Therefore its not logical for a spiritual body to be a disguise, which proves that he didn't die or resurrected.
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Topic: Christ(pbuh) was not crucified 2 (8 of 8), Read 32 times
Conf: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/confinfo?13 - Issues: Removing Misconceptions
From: http://wb.islamicity.com:8080/~IslamiCity/userpeek?19511 - yesha mailto: -
Date: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:15 PM

[Another sensible reason why Christ(pbuh) was not crucified is because, Allah would never let his prophet be tortured and crucified.]

Luke 11:47-49
47 "Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them.
48 So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs.
49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.'
(NIV)

Your position is historically inaccurate. The religous experts at Jesus's time believed that if they had lived in their forfathers time they would have listened, and obeyed. But God sent them prophets and apostles, whom most of whom died unnatural deaths. For example, John the Baptist was beheaded.

[
For example, Ibraham(phuh) was a prophet of Allah, and when he was young boy, during his time people worshiped idols, so what he did was he took a stick and broke all the idols in the store, when people came to an understanding that Ibraham broke the idols, the people in the town decided to throw in the fire and burn him alive. Just before they threw him in the fire, Allah, cooled down the flames, and Ibraham(pbuh) never burned and people where in shock.
]

This story is not a biblical one, though it may be based on Daniel.

[
So, if Allah didn't let Ibraham burn in fire, how could Allah let Jesus(pbuh) get crucified. Especially, christians believe that he is the son of god, if that is true according to christians, how can a father let his son get brutally crucified. It doesn't make any sense.
]

He demonstrates his love for us.
Rom 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(NIV)

[
There are so many stories of diffent prophets, that could have suffered a massive pain. And Allah didn't let it happen. So, there is no way he will let Christ suffer the pain of crucification.
]

Consider this:

Matt 26:53-54
53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
(NIV)

Luke 24:44-48
44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
(NIV)

This is an example of what was written in the Prophets about him:
Here is Isiahs (6-7 hundred years before Christ) prophecy concerning this:

Isa 53:7-8,11
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied
(NIV)

The Christ will suffer, die, and be raised to life.

////////////////////////////////

[
Yes, it also states in the Bible itself, Acts 1:3 it states, " He presented himself ALIVE to them with many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." which proves Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE. When you are alive you rise, when you die you resurrect.
]

When you are raised from the dead you are alive. Both luke and acts cleary portray that Christ died. See above quote.

[
In Hebrews 5:7, even Paul confirms that his supplications did not fall on deaf ears it states " In the days when he was in the flesh, he offered prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence." Which means he was saved from being killed, Al-hamdulillah.
]

Hebrews, as well clearly portrays that Christ had died, and was saved from death (raised to life).

Heb 2:9
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
(NIV)

[
According to the book of Mark, 15:44, "Pilate was amazed that Jesus (pbuh) was already dead. He summoned the centurion and asked him if Jesus (pbuh) had already died. he knew no man can die within three hours on the cross. Because this crucifixion was to be a slow, lingering death. Pilate knew from his own experience that death on the cross doesn't occur in such a short time. Since it occurred in such time, pilate marvels and just gives the body over to Joseph" of Arimathea. Pilate Knew that Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE because of the time that he was taken down from the cross, but didn't say anything due to the fact that he was in favor of Jesus (pbuh) and that he didn't want them to know that he still had life in his body. And In many respects, the timing of Jesus' death is a bit too opportune.
According to the system in vogue Gospels, pastors, evangelist, preachers and Christians, Jesus was on the cross for three hours, which means that he was taken down from the cross on the third hour. In three hours, a person can't and wouldn't die from being nailed to a cross. its physically impossible for a person to die of crucifixion from being nailed to a cross on the third hour. Moreover Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE!
]

People die without even being nailed to a cross. Jesus died when he gave up his spirit.

John 10:17-18
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life-- only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
(NIV)

[
German Scientists who carried out experiments on the "Shroud of Turin" said that the heart of Jesus had not stopped functioning — that he was ALIVE!
]

whom?

{Upon examining the chest, the pathologist notes a large blood stain over the right pectoral area Close examination shows a variance in intensity of the stain consistent with the presence of two types of fluid, one comprised of blood, and the other resembling water. There is distinct evidence of a gravitational effect on this stain with the blood flowing downward and without spatter of other evidence of the projectile activity which would be expected from blood issuing from a functional arterial source. This wound has all the characteristics of a postmortem type flow of blood from a body cavity or from an organ such as the heart. At the upper plane of the wound is an ovoid skin defect which is characteristic of a penetrating track produced by a sharp puncturing instrument.} - http://www.shroud.com/bucklin.htm

[
According to Psalms 118:17-18 which states " I shall not die but live and declare the deeds of the lord." 18 also states, "The lord chastised me harshly, but did not hand me over to death."
]

I can see how one could interpret this to support such a position. But consider first David, who did die.

[This verse goes side by side with the prophecy of Matthews 12:38-40]

Jonah, who was in the deep(a place of death) for three days and then comming up again to the land of the living clearly portrays Christ dieing for three days and being raised to life.

[Moreover, in John 19:33-34 " But when they came to Jesus pbuh and saw that he was already dead, SAW, that he was already dead, they did not bother to break his bones", and that's a fulfillment of prophecy that his leg will not be broken. 34, "but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed and Gushed out," (sign of life) which means that he had life in his body.]

I am unfamilar with how a spear being thrust in one's side to ensure that they are dead, and blood and water comes out, is a sign of life?

[
No Angel, that I will answer Logically with tremendous intricate detail with no emotional theological explanations. And please read it all. Jesus pbuh never died period! After suffering on the cross he appears In the upper room and he shows his hands and feet, Luke 24:35-36 "behold its me, handle my hands and see, for a spirit has no flesh and bones, like you see me have" And he say, "do you have anything to eat." (Do spirits eat?) Which means he was ALIVE and not dead cause when you die and resurrect you would be a spiritual body as said in Luke 20:35-36, 1 Corintians 15:42-44 and also Hebrews 5:27
]

This is an interesting topic. Was Jesus given, a new glories, imperishable, uncorrupting body, as we are told we will receive. The body must die because of sin. Because of this we need a new body. But Jesus never sinned. Does he need a new body. Perhaps he will keep his human body, the only one to do so. The most glorious body, one made in the image of God. A fitting reward.

[
In the encyclopedia Biblica, under the article "Cross," Column 960 says, "When the spare was thrust, Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE."
]

What ever it says, it's just an interpretation by somebody about the same scriptures we read in the bible. We can read it for ourselves what it says, and I'm not aware of anything that suggests Jesus was still alive at that point.

[
Jesus's (pbuh) deciples were overjoyed to see him casue they heard from heresay that he had died on the cross and resurrected, and since they know already that resurrected bodies are angelized they thought he was a spirit so they were terrified and thought he was a spirit. So Jesus (pbuh) he clarified that doubt by saying. "Behold its me, handle my hands and see for a spirit has no flesh and bones like you see me have". They we're not eyewitness according to Mark 14:50, " and they all (Deciples) fled and left him at the seen.
]

The apostles were indeed eye witnesses as is shown in the gospels. John 19:26, for example.

[
In Acts 1:3 it states, " He presented himself ALIVE to them with many proofs after he had suffered, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God." which proves Jesus (pbuh) was ALIVE.
]

As the text explains, he was raised to life.

[
Disguise is only possible or necessary if he was physicalized and ALIVE, thus stating that resurrected bodies are spiritualized and not physicalized. Therefore its not logical for a spiritual body to be a disguise, which proves that he didn't die or resurrected.
]

There is a lot of presumtion in this argument.
The new body is probably for the new heaven and earth.
How can we say if he already has it, or is yet to get it, or even if he needs it?

éùò

Jesus speaking: For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 5:21-24 NKJ)

 



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Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.


Posted By: Abdulsalam
Date Posted: 19 March 2005 at 5:49pm

Rather than duplicate the many interesting points made here by all of you, and rather than use this as an opportunity to merely re-state beliefes, I would like to simply offer 2 historical facts that should not be overlooked by anyone who sincerely cares about this topic, as they have a great bearing on the crucifixion story:

1) Crucifixion was reserved for political crimes that infringed on the government's authority. It is impossible that the two other men on crosses alongside Jesus could have been thieves, as theft was not a political crime under Roman law and not punishable by execution. 

2) Crucifixion was one of 3 methods of execution dedicated for those who the government wished to destroy completey - burning to death, feeding to the lions, and crucifixion. What they share in common is that they are intended to deprive anyone from having any remains of the person executed. It is easy to imagine, though horrible, how burinng a body long enough turns even bones to ashes and how feeding to lions causes almost all the body to be consumed. For the same to be true of crucifixion, the body is left on the cross long enough (weeks or more) in order for it to be eaten completely by birds of prey who pick the morsels and fly off with them (and make even more of an example of the offender). The point here being that the body of Jesus or anyone crucified would not have been taken down and given to anyone for burial - crucifixion was specifically selected as the form of execution in order to prevent exactly such a thing.

Therefore the gospel accounts to this effect must be false and fabricated at a later time by people far removed from the political and legal realities of Roman-governed Judea.

 

 



Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 11:02am
Respectfully, Abdulsalam, your arguments are unconvincing.

It is like saying that American law forbids torture therefore Abu Ghraib
could never have occurred. Military occupation governments have always
operated with a great degree of autonomy.

Hundreds of early Christians - who were Jesus' contemporaries and would
have known the facts first hand - chose martyrdom rather than make a
simple verbal denial of the divinity of Christ. They did not choose torture
and death to protect a lie.

DavidC


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 9:52am

I think, DavidC, there is some more to the narration of Abdulsalam, that I may like to add to it, not necessarily stressing over his point. Beside other logical arguments presented above to negate the crucifiction of Jesus (PBUH), this is related to the kind of confusion created in the accounts of biblical author of new testament. Probably you know it or not, that at the time of Jesus, there was another Jew whose name was also Jesus, and was involved in agitating revolts against the romans. He was also held in the same jail at around the same time for ofcourse, be dealt with capitol punishment of time. This fact was recently found by some scholars researching NT from latino-greeco versions. Some how or the other (intentional or unintentional), this fact has been removed from the presently held English versions of NT.

Now coming to the sources of such information that we now have in the form of NT. Out of four famous books of NT, only two are known to be authored from the direct diciples of Jesus. Of course you must be knowing that Mark and Luke were not among the famous 12 disciples. How and when did they get their ministry, no one knows. However, even for the texts from Mathew and John, very serious conerns about their authorship exists in academic circles. So far so, even some of the catholic churches, now admit (proof is on their websites let me know if you need it) that the books we now have on the names of Mathew and John in NT, were not authored by the deciples of Jesus.  I would like, DavidC, you to dewll into this area, if not done as yet, and you will be amazed how weak and poor the grounds are on which these books are considered to be from their purported authors. With this background about the authenticity of the books, I some time wonder how people may even quote them in their discussions. Rest God knows the best. Cheers!



Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 11:11am
I'm not a scholar - I only want to share what I believe. As you probably
know, most Christians accept their religion because they are inspired by
God to do so and not because of their own logic or a book.

DavidC.


Posted By: tisha37
Date Posted: 24 March 2005 at 8:45pm

Good people. My husband raised an interesting question yesterday. Historical accounts always describes the tomb that Isa was in as having frankencise and oils. These were tools used to embalm a body. Why then is there a question amongst Christians about whether Christ was just a man and a prophet?

Sincerely,

Tisha



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Forever be in remembrance of The Merciful.


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 7:22am
Jesus was both fully man and fully God. There is no question.

Remember there us much symbolism involved as well.

DavidC


Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 26 March 2005 at 8:28am

Originally posted by DavidC

Jesus was both fully man and fully God. There is no question.

Remember there us much symbolism involved as well.

DavidC

Well the Encyclopaedia Biblica (Vol.IV, p.4980) says it all - The New Testament was written by Christians for Christians; it was moreover written in Greek for Greek speaking communities.....

And we all know that historically, Jesus (as) was not a Greek or spoke Greek. He was a Hebrew speaking Palestinian.

Jesus' (as) 72 followers during his life-time used to call themselves 'Nazarene' and not Christians. Jesus' (as) divine message was recorded by his step-brother and scribe, St. Barnabas, and not St. Paul (Saul). The Nazarene believed Jesus (as) to be the 'Promised Messiah - a prophet of God'. It was in 325 CE, when the Bible was 'Canonized' by the pagan Roman emperor and Jesus was declared 'God' - based on Roman 'Pagan mythology'.

Have a good day.

 



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 12:31pm
"Aramaic" is considered somewhat more authentically close language spoken of Jesus (PBUH). It is, of course, a more closer variant of Habrew than Greek language. Cheers!


Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 2:40pm

I thought we settled this.. if Jesus The Messiah, son of Mary..  was really Crucified...

 

and the answer was Yes/No

So the christians say Yes - and the Muslims say No. Around and around we go, where do we stop? No Body Knows! - Whos Right and Whos WRonG? "WE are!!!... The're WRong!" .... said the Muslims and Christians in Unison..

This is as repetative and refreshing as a thread on Masturbation.

or maybe i'm just proving the cynics right...

 

How about somthing new?... Lets talk about what Jesus the Messiah, Son of Mary - Might have looked liked?!..



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THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________


Posted By: Rehmat
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 2:47pm

Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

.....So the christians say Yes - and the Muslims say No.

You miss the big spot P.I. - Christians believe that Jesus was 'resurrected' after three days/nights - Jews believe they did with him (jesus) once for all



-------------
Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You



Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Rehmat

Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

.....So the christians say Yes - and the Muslims say No.

You miss the big spot P.I. - Christians believe that Jesus was 'resurrected' after three days/nights - Jews believe they did with him (jesus) once for all

You are not going to draw me into this debate.. but I will answer you Specifically Rehmat..

yeah... christians do believe Jesus Son of Mary ressurected after being crucified... and Died on the cross right? .. .. I'm pretty sure i'm right... or all 3 years of comparative religion studies have been wrong?... And yeah.. the Jewish populous at the time tried to Kill(Or killed.. what ever view you might hold) Jesus the Messiah son of Mary - for whatever illgottten - vile , selfish reasons they might have had..

 



-------------
THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________


Posted By: -maryam-
Date Posted: 28 March 2005 at 5:32am

As salam u alaikum,

Nausheen sister thanks alot for the article. I have newly registered here and would love to participate in this forum.

I have a question regarding prophet Isa(pbuh) and his crucified history. As I read this article, I found out(which I also knew frm before) that he was not killed but the other man who got his appearance. But what I haven't got the answer to, is that, when the other man got his appearance, was Isa(pbuh) fled to heaven then? I assume we Muslims believe that he was not dead.. so he must have fled to heaven then, right? Could u provide me with some Ayah/surah which speaks about this certain issue? And i want to read it from the Muslim view and not other religions.

Wa'salam.



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 28 March 2005 at 7:02am
I think, as DavidC has pointed out, the true Christians have faith in one God only without any logic or book. However, when they try to explain the details on the way they comprehend God through later developed theology of "the cross", "the crucifiction" or "the original sin", that is where the problem starts to begin. It is confusing to them more than to any one else, when they try to assimiliate everything that is written in their Bible(OT and NT). This becomes more misleading when, some of them, out of their shear faith (without logic or book), starts to consider the Bible (NT) to be divinely inspired. However, more and more Christian brothers and sisters have now started critically looking at their definition of the God, more objectively than "indoctrinated faith" alone.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 8:55am

Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

How about somthing new?... Lets talk about what Jesus the Messiah, Son of Mary - Might have looked liked?!..

I have a pretty good idea what Jesus might have looked like      (new thread?)

 



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:02am
Sure Angel.. BRing it on...

-------------
THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 1:27pm
I guess Muslims must be right or the bunny would have some bacon with
his pancake.

DavidC


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 3:06pm
I guess ideas with analytical reasoning and deductive logic in the arguments, make an opinion more stronger towards ones veiws rather than blind/ignorant faith. Blind faith can't sustain for a long and always remain at the mercy of satan who is ever working on humans to divert them from the right path. One may bring in the "bunny", "bacon" or any thing similar, however, ideas can't be refuted merely with humorous thoughts alone.


Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 7:07pm

Originally posted by DavidC

I guess Muslims must be right or the bunny would have some bacon with
his pancake.

DavidC

Beef Bacon?... Sure Thing!..... Yummy...



-------------
THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 9:55pm

Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

Sure Angel.. BRing it on...

well, I believe Jesus didn't look like a white caucasan (sp?) with blonde hair and blue eye.

I believe He looked more of a middle eastern appearance with dark hair and brown or hazel eyes.    



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 12 April 2005 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Angel

Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

Sure Angel.. BRing it on...

well, I believe Jesus didn't look like a white caucasan (sp?) with blonde hair and blue eye.

I believe He looked more of a middle eastern appearance with dark hair and brown or hazel eyes.    

Actually, the description given of him is of a very Black man with nappy hair and red eyes.

1:14: His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15: And his feet like unto brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

Anything burned in a furnace is going to be Black.



Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 12 April 2005 at 11:21am
Acts 10:39: And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 12 April 2005 at 7:44pm
Wow! a great quote! This is amazing and then they create so much noise about crucifiction. Probably they believe and listen more to St. Paul than the diciples of Jesus. Isn't it should be other way around?


Posted By: Abdulsalam
Date Posted: 12 April 2005 at 8:55pm
Ok now I'm REALLY confused - according to this quote they killed Jesus first and then hung up his body??


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 9:04am
Important word to note is "tree" and not even the cross. So who is correct and how? No body knows;  they only make conjectures based upon unauthentic books written by anonymous authors. Wow! and still they want to take the true guidance out of it?  


Posted By: zulkharnain
Date Posted: 28 April 2005 at 12:15am
Those who say Jesus a God invite a membership in Hell.
Mind this I swear in Allah and say this.

Jesus was just a man a prophet who preached about one god Allah. The people who insulted Jesus, when he was lifted up by Allah they started thinking jesus to be God. Those people fabricated stories and say this was in Bible.Bible preached about one God Allah. Jesus shall come back all those who are true to their religon shall beieve him to be a Ummati of Muhammed prophet (peace be upon him) and shall discard their christianity and become Muslim.
This is a challenge.

Read Quran and understand or invite yourself wrath of Allah shortly.
Allah is watching us all if u but understand ...

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May Allah bless u


Posted By: bissmillah
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 7:22pm
I'm not quite sure of the arguement in this forum about' but I feel as a revert to islam an old believer of christianity and old convert to catholic my family is a line of christian and they still are, my history goes back in spain where my ancestor took part in oppression of muslim I'm sorry to say and I'm here to appoligise for my ancesstors ignorant, gods teaching send to man, but man is so prone to error as long they are'nt repeated. I thing sometimes we all need to listen to great news that concerns the life of individual rather than being right all the time and not shoving down so much opinion or self expression down some ones throat but rather learn to hear some one out if we believe in something only the individual could carry that out but weather what we carry out would effects some ones well being or better their circumstance is another thing we need to really be very concern. about being a christian is'nt all bad or jew or even a muslim I need to know why in the world does christian needs to be right at everything the individual christian not all christian Iam referring to' but those who has plenty worldly gain from expressing their view of the only one who shove notion without proof and has heaps of self xpression or self desire, it would be nice if everyone comes to together without pride or prejudice to learn and be factual lest self expressing but I've heard not one christian come up with proofs but rather the opposite we still at it a guess self expressing that is.

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john16:12-14 U have yet many things to say unto yuo,but Ye cannot bear them now....


Posted By: bissmillah
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 9:32pm
holy quran 4:157 That they said(in boast) "We killed Jesus christ the son of mary, the messanger of allah", but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certaint) knowledge,  but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety that they killed him not. Nay,allah raised him up to Himself; and allah is exalted in power, wise. 

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john16:12-14 U have yet many things to say unto yuo,but Ye cannot bear them now....


Posted By: bissmillah
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by -ArabianKnight-

Originally posted by DavidC

I guess Muslims must be right or the bunny would have some bacon with
his pancake.

DavidC

Beef Bacon?... Sure Thing!..... Yummy...

deuteronomy,14:8 and matthew,5:17-19 And swine...he is unclean to you. Of the flesh shall Ye not eat, and their carcass shall Ye not touch; they are unclean to you." {Leviticus,11:7-8]   

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john16:12-14 U have yet many things to say unto yuo,but Ye cannot bear them now....


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 09 May 2005 at 6:34pm
Question: If Christ really rose from the dead, the event would be in secular literature, and it's not. The only reports are from Christian writers.

Response: There's a catch-22 in that comment, and both sides work in our favor;

  • •If a person looked into the claims of Christ's resurrection and concluded they were true, that person did not dispassionately do nothing. They became Christian
  • •If they wrote about it, they are considered a Christian writer
  • •Those who were opposed to the story of Christ's resurrection would love to be able to furnish proof that the claim was false.
  • •The fact that they did not write indicates they could not prove it false.

So both sides work to proof the truth of the resurrection of Christ.

http://www.catholicevidence.org/docs/divinchr.html - http://www.catholicevidence.org/docs/divinchr.html

Peace and Understanding,

Patty

 



Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 09 May 2005 at 10:52pm
Please understand that God, is the God of History, meaning
God is the God of Time and so the proof of the Crucifixion is the
date of the Crucifixion ending at 3pm Friday, April 7th AD30 on
Passover eve.

And 3,900 years (1300 x 3) after the creation of Adam, and
Adam was filled with the breath of life some 50 days later, so
that the first day of the Church was 3,900 years after Adam
received the power.

Adam became a Traitor one day after his wife Eve, at 12,881
days after his creation and receiving the breath of life, so on
September 2nd 3836BC Adam became a Traitor.

From the conception of Mary by the Holy Ghost to the death of
Jesus was 12,880 days and 12,881 days to his full day down in
Hades, once called Paradise.

And this is just the start of how the calculations in time fit
together like a jigsaw puzzle in time.


-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by Patty

Question: If Christ really rose from the dead, the event would be in secular literature, and it's not. The only reports are from Christian writers.

Response: There's a catch-22 in that comment, and both sides work in our favor;

  • •If a person looked into the claims of Christ's resurrection and concluded they were true, that person did not dispassionately do nothing. They became Christian
  • •If they wrote about it, they are considered a Christian writer......
 

and exactly who were these christian writers? You mean St. Paul? I don't think he ever met Jesus in his life time what to write about him. Others, like the gospel of John or Matthew are now known to be the authored by the anonymous personalities and not the disciples of Jesus. Rest of the two authors of the gospels are by default not among the 12 disciples of the Jesus. So who were they other than St. Paul? That is the reason we see Jesus in these books only through the monocule of St. Paul and not what he himself has said.

 



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 1:59pm

Originally posted by JohnDM

Please understand that God, is the God of History, meaning
God is the God of Time and so the proof of the Crucifixion is the
date of the Crucifixion ending at 3pm Friday, April 7th AD30 on
Passover eve.

And 3,900 years (1300 x 3) after the creation of Adam, and
Adam was filled with the breath of life some 50 days later, so
that the first day of the Church was 3,900 years after Adam
received the power.

Adam became a Traitor one day after his wife Eve, at 12,881
days after his creation and receiving the breath of life, so on
September 2nd 3836BC Adam became a Traitor.

From the conception of Mary by the Holy Ghost to the death of
Jesus was 12,880 days and 12,881 days to his full day down in
Hades, once called Paradise.

And this is just the start of how the calculations in time fit
together like a jigsaw puzzle in time.

Brother JohnDM,

I think 'traitor' is a wrong word for people like Prophets. Don't you think so? If I commit a mistake, would I become a traitor? I don't think so, especially if I repent and then Allah forgive me. According to Islam Prophets are no ordinary people. They are specially chosen to spread the message of God to His creation. Prophet Adam, being the first human creation of God, has a special status where it was him to whom God asked all the angels to bow down to him. All did bow to Adam except the Satan. For this reason, satan got enmity with humans. BTW, bowing to Adam was only to show his superiority over all creations of God and not for worship reasons.

Regarding your statement of "conception of Mary by the Holy Ghost", suffice is to say that it is a lie against God or against the angel Gaberil or what ever you imply to mean Holy Ghost. God doesn't need to obey human laws to create anything. He simply says "Be" and thats it all shall be done automatically.

Regarding Jigsaw puzzle, I can only say that puzzle is only in your mind (one in three or three in one etc), the muslims don't have any puzzle about identity of Jesus, so what to talke about solving it? Cheers!



Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 2:47pm
The spirit of the Holy Ghost is the LAMB of God.

And the reference number for the LAMB of God is 1288 and
there were 12,880 days from conception of Mary by the Holy
Ghost at 2:30am January 1, 6BC to 3:03pm Friday, April 7,
AD30 when Jesus Christ gave back the Holy Ghost to God just
before he died. So the soul of Jesus was left naked for the spirit
body was gone, and so the soul of Jesus entered the prison in
Hades where he preached. Then come early Sunday morning
the Spirit of God came down into Hades and raised up the soul
of Jesus which entered his natural body which came back to
life. Jesus then went up to Heaven and handed God some
drops of his blood in the Temple of God to show the ultimate
sacrifice had been made. He was then given back the Holy
Ghost, and returned to Earth. So his natural body was now the
Temple of the Holy Ghost as are many but not all Christians.

He had received the Holy Ghost at his baptism on his 32nd
birthday on October 1, AD27 when John the Baptist baptised
him.

And 266 days later on June 24th AD28 John was decapitated
on the birthday of Herod, Then 653 days after this Jesus was
crucified.

The make up of the LAMB of God is a lamb + a lion + 7 eyes,
the burning lamps of God, and 7 horns and all add up to 1288.

But then Eve's number for he sin is 12,880

And the weight of the Statue of Freedom on the Capitol dome
Washington D.C. is 14,985 pounds or 666 x 15 x 1.5 (this kind
of freedom is death).

And 14,985 pounds as tons is 6.689732143 tons and cubed
thrice and divided by 1.5 is 1.28808470e+22.

And the reference number for Adam is 12881 and Eve at 12880
so together as one unit at 12880.5 and so 666 is seen in the
make up and the coming together of Adam and Eve both a
fallen man and a feman.

And so on

-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 4:35pm

Originally posted by JohnDM

The spirit of the Holy Ghost is the LAMB of God.

And the reference number for the LAMB of God is 1288 and
there were 12,880 days from conception of Mary by the Holy
Ghost at 2:30am January 1, 6BC to 3:03pm Friday, April 7,
AD30 when Jesus Christ gave back the Holy Ghost to God just
before he died. So the soul of Jesus was left naked for the spirit
body was gone, and so the soul of Jesus entered the prison in
Hades where he preached. Then come early Sunday morning
the Spirit of God came down into Hades and raised up the soul
of Jesus which entered his natural body which came back to
life. Jesus then went up to Heaven and handed God some
drops of his blood in the Temple of God to show the ultimate
sacrifice had been made. He was then given back the Holy
Ghost, and returned to Earth. So his natural body was now the
Temple of the Holy Ghost as are many but not all Christians.

What a story!! But from where you got this one? Believe me, I never heard of it before. However, who got this story made up by traveling with Jesus all through these places? Secondly, the story says Jesus went to Hell (Hades) after he died and yet you consider him god?? This is extremely strange view; never heard of before, not even the polythiests could be imagined saying this.



He had received the Holy Ghost at his baptism on his 32nd
birthday on October 1, AD27 when John the Baptist baptised
him.

Whose birthday are you talking about? Kindly check your record; shouldn't it be the christmas? Are you trying to bring the result out of nowhere by stretching your math too hard to reach the final number you already assumed?


...

The make up of the LAMB of God is a lamb + a lion + 7 eyes,
the burning lamps of God, and 7 horns and all add up to 1288.

But then Eve's number for he sin is 12,880

And the weight of the Statue of Freedom on the Capitol dome
Washington D.C. is 14,985 pounds or 666 x 15 x 1.5 (this kind
of freedom is death).

And 14,985 pounds as tons is 6.689732143 tons and cubed
thrice and divided by 1.5 is 1.28808470e+22.

And the reference number for Adam is 12881 and Eve at 12880
so together as one unit at 12880.5 and so 666 is seen in the
make up and the coming together of Adam and Eve both a
fallen man and a feman.

And so on

Oh, I see what you mean here.. Probably you assume that we all got bored by talking serious stuff about christianity. So its high time to take a break with your humourous jokes. keep it up with your jokes, probably you may get bored yourself within this stuff. Cheers!

 



Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 10 May 2005 at 11:49pm
Mmm...

Hell is below Hades, once Paradise.

The flag flying over the Gates of Hell is that of the Skull and
Crossbones at 611 (skull 322 + crossbones 17 x 17)

And 611 x 6110 and square root divided by 0.15 is 12881.011
the reference for the Traitor Adam.

And 6.1100000e+41 x 611 and square root and cube root
thrice x 2,240 pounds weight is Freedom at 14,985.0070
pounds the weight of the goddess Columbia, the goddess of
Washington D.C. and America.

PS
Jesus was 32 years old at his baptism of which two years as a
babe was spent in Egypt.



-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 9:15am
JohnDM, some calculations you did there

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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 12 May 2005 at 9:21am

JohnDM, I have one big word...

Huh ??



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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 14 May 2005 at 4:58am
Measure for measure, but is Islam counting?

The Temple Mount, which Arabs refer to as the Haram al-Sharif where
today the Al-Aqsa Mosque is located, is the site on where the Bible’s King
Solomon constructed the Temple of Yahweh, (I Kings 5:15-7:51), nearly
1,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. This First Temple was
destroyed by the armies of the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar in the
sixth century BC, and was replaced by a Second Temple some seventy
years later. The Second Temple was destroyed in the year AD70 by the
Roman armies, whose victory is symbolised by the Arch of Titus in Rome.
Jews have venerated the Temple Mount site of the two Temples and Jews
pray at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount. According to Jewish law,
Jews are prohibited from entering the Temple Mount because they cannot
perform rituals of purification that are not currently practiced.

One of Herod's greatest building projects was in Jerusalem. He wanted to
enlarge and embellish the Temple, but the mountain on which Solomon
had built the First Temple and on which Zachariah and Haggai had built
the Second was just too small for his plans. That didn't stop Herod. He
dramatically increased the size of the Temple Mount by constructing huge
encasement walls and filling them in, creating a large trapezoid. He was
then able to proceed with his architectural plans to enlarge the Temple
and its courtyards.Herod protected the Temple Mount with a large
military fortress called Antonia, honoring Mark Antony. He protected the
western entrance of Jerusalem (and, incidentally, his villa situated there)
with a huge tri-towered fortress called the Citadel. The Citadel loomed
over the wealthy part of town, called the Upper City. And so the Romans
after Herod, could have been involved with the Temple Mount increased
area, but it matters not, for the measurements are of interest to me. Now
a reference in the The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia published in 1966 by
W. H. Allan, tells us about the Herodian wall surrounding Temple Mount,
with the north wall measures 913 feet, the south wall 1,050 feet, the east
wall 1,515 feet, and the west wall 1,586 feet, a perimeter length of 5,064
feet.

Then in AD691 the Dome of the Rock was constructed as an Islamic
shrine on a place next to where the Temple of Yahweh had stood until
destroyed on August 5th AD70 by the Roman legions who massacred tens
of thousands of Jews.

Now to the importance of ‘times, times and half a time’ 1,260 days and
Temple Mount.

“But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the
time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be
increased. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the
one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the
bank of the river. And [one] said to the man clothed in linen, which [was]
upon the waters of the river, How long [shall it be to] the end of these
wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the
waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto
heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time,
times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the
power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.” Daniel 12:
4-7

“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place
prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred
[and] threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his
angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,”
Rev 12:6-7

So we are in the end times seemingly because we can calculate by way of
‘Number Form Follows Measurement Function’.

So I take the north wall 913 feet 1,260 days, x the south wall 1,050 feet x
1,260 days x the east wall 1,515 feet x 1,260 days and the west wall
1,586 feet x 1,260 days and divide by the 27 Ancient Egyptian gods (as
depicted on the 28 finger widths of their 20.612 inch cubit, with Horus
mentioned twice, the second time as Horus of the Horizon) and square
root once and divided by the 24 seers who stand around the Throne of
God x 1.0000e+12 and cube root thrice is a weight of 6.689732 tons or
14,985.0003 pounds the weight of the Statute of Freedom standing on
the dome over the Law Makers on Capitol Hill. This goddess of War, this
goddess Columbia is Miss 666 because 14985 pounds is equivalent to
666 x 1.5 x 15.

So the Temple Mount’s four Herodian sides each by the Bible’s ‘time,
times and half a time’ of 1,260 days reveals the Temple Mount of the
goddess Columbia who marks with Death.


-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 14 May 2005 at 6:15am
Someone was counting one tenth of time, times and half a time at 126.

The Judgment of Prophet Daniel

Daniel (God is my judge), was one of the four great prophets, although he
is not once spoken of in the Old Testament as a prophet. His life and
prophecies are recorded in the Book of Daniel. He was descended from
one of the noble families of Judah (Dan. 1:3), and was probably born in
Jerusalem about 623BC, during the reign of Josiah. At the first
deportation of the Jews by Nebuchadnezzar, young Daniel and three other
noble youths were carried off to Babylon.

In Babylon, (today’s Iraq and since about the 1920’s has a land area of
168,000 square miles x 0.75 is 126,000), Daniel was obliged to enter into
the service of the king of Babylon, and in accordance with the custom of
the age received the Chaldean name of Belteshazzar, meaning ‘prince of
Bel’. His residence in Babylon was very probably in the palace of
Nebuchadnezzar and at the close of his three years of discipline and
training in the royal schools, Daniel was distinguished for his proficiency
in the ‘wisdom; of his day.

He soon became known for his skill in the interpretation of dreams and
rose to the rank of governor of the province of Babylon, and became
‘chief of the governors’ over all the wise men of Babylon. He made known
and also interpreted Nebuchadnezzar's dream; and many years
afterwards, when he was now an old man, amid the alarm and
consternation of the terrible night of Belshazzar's impious feast, he was
called to interpret the mysterious handwriting on the wall. He was
rewarded with a purple robe and elevation to the rank of ‘third ruler’.
Daniel interpreted the handwriting, and ‘in that night was Belshazzar the
king of the Chaldeans slain’. After the taking of Babylon, the great ruler
Cyrus was now master of all Asia.

The time and circumstances of Daniel’s death are not recorded. He
probably died at Susa, about eighty-five years of age. The prophet
Ezekiel, with whom he was contemporary, mentions him as a pattern of
righteousness and wisdom.

So Belshazzar, co-regent of the Babylonian Empire, watched as these
words were supernaturally written on the palace wall: “MENE, MENE,
TEKEL, UPHARSIN.” (Meaning “Numbered, Weighed and Divided” as well as
measurements).

“Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was
written. And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL,
UPHARSIN. This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath
numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the
balances, and art found wanting. PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and
given to the Medes and Persians. Then commanded Belshazzar, and they
clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and
made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in
the kingdom. In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans
slain.” Daniel 5:24-30

Each of the words the fingers inscribed on the wall is a measure of
weight. The basic Babylonian unit of weight was the gold shekel (tekel).
The mena equalled 50 shekels; the upharsin (half a mena) equalled 25.
The four words, therefore, stood for: mena is 50 shekels; add a mena of
50 shekels add a tekel of 1 shekel and add a upharsin of 25 shekels, a
total is 126 shekels. And 126 represents not only the Ancient Egyptian
‘Eye of Horus’ it refers to the human mind, the human spirit man within, a
metaphyiscal body that is released at death. So Daniel deciphered the
spiritual ‘hand writing’ as ‘126’.

And Daniel was told by an angel the importance of ‘time, times and half a
time’ that is 1,260 days and its relationship to the end times.


-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 14 May 2005 at 2:04pm
Islam’s Cresent Moon

As there are seemingly few dates in Islam from where I come from I have
to dwell upon the start of the calendar in AD622.

So to 'Number Form Follows Measurement Function'.

And the crescent Moon is a symbol used by Islam, a Moon which only ever
shows us 59% of her face. The first chapter of Genesis says the token, the
Moon, is as a ruler of darkness. As every Moslem knows Abu al-Qasim
Muhammad was persecuted for his teachings in Mecca and fled to Medina
in AD622. This flight to Medina in AD622 is known as ‘The Hegira’. In
Medina, Muhammad became a leader and theocratic head of the town.
Muslims reckon time from the new Moon early in the morning on Hegira
July 16th in AD622 which is the year 1 A.H.

And so rather easy counting shows that the Israelite’s Exodus in 1441BC
which the Bible says was 430 years after Abraham first visited Egypt at
the age of 75 years old in the year 1871BC. Abraham was 99 years old in
1847BC, some 1,876 years before the Crucifixion on April 7th AD30.
And when Abraham was 99 years old he was told by God to make the
covenant sign of circumcision, and Ishmael, the son of Abraham, was 13
years old when he was circumcised. And Ishmael lived 124 years after his
circumcision. And so we understand that Islam came out of Ishmael so to
speak, and so we need to consider seriously the year 1847BC.

Now counting from the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ of Nazareth at 9am on
Friday, April 7th AD30 to 3:30am July 16th AD622 the first day of the
Islamic calendar, is 592.273 years, x 365.242198 days and divided by 12
periods of 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes 03 seconds (354.3670531 days)
is some 610.4494 lunar periods x 12 months.

Next, I multiply 1876 years from Ishmael’s blood covenant with God to
the blood covenant of Jesus Christ with God at his crucifixion, x 610.4494
12 lunar periods x 3 and divided by Pi twice is equivalent to 5,900 x
5,900.

The number 59 refers to the Pharaoh’s insignia as a Ruler of Darkness,
that is the goddess serpent of Delta Egypt at 17 + the vulture goddess of
Narrow Egypt at 42.

Now to the Book of Enoch, which tells of the Sun and Moon cycles in the
other dimension, I presume to be Hades. The Moon has a cycle of 354
days, compared to the 354.367 days for our Moon’s 12 cycles around the
Earth.

Now one sixth of 354 days is 59 days, a number associated with the
Knights Templar, an example being the Temple Church of the Virgin Mary
off Fleet Street, London, which has an unusual round nave at 59 feet
diameter, a radius of 29.5 feet.

This simple bit of arithmetic reveals that the Islamic religion is of the
Moon, and the Moon is the token for the Ruler of Darkness. And this
calculation had for its very fulcrum the date of the Crucifixion, when the
Sun was unseen for a time, so darkness can be the very proof that there is
a True God.

But then curiously I can contrive something extra, because 5900 x 5900 x
Ishmaels’ 124.0036 years from circumcision to death and cubed twice is
equivalent to 611 x 611 x 611 x 611 x 611 x 6.110000e+72.

But this must be a coincidence.


-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: JohnDM
Date Posted: 15 May 2005 at 10:48am
The Christians are told that Christ has victory over Death.

The Skull and Crossbones is a sign of Death at 611. (Made up of the Skull
at 322 + Crossbones at 289 the Crossbones + 2 Skulls is 933 the
Biblical Beast to come up out of the sea of people and start marking them
and 322 x 40 is Eve at 12880).

Now there are four time important periods, namely from conception
death on the Cross at 12,880 day, and from conception to 2:35:35am on
Ascension Day on May 18, AD30 is 12,920.48075 days and from birth at
2:30am October 1, 6BC to death on the Cross at 3pm Friday, April 7,
AD30 12,607 days and from birth to Ascension Day at 2:23:35am May
18, AD30 is 12,647.48075 days.

Multiply all four and squared once and cubed once x 3 is equivalent to
the Holy Ghost at 1,288,000 x 6.110000e+15 and /4 and cubed.

So the Holy Ghost, the spirit body of Jesus Christ leaves his natural body
and soul at death and by this act defeats Death at 611.

Clever whosoever worked this out for people like me and so to Number
Form Follows Measurement Function.



-------------
"Ignorance is no refuge"


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 09 April 2008 at 3:39pm

John DM,

I think its a waste of time to quote and prove something from a book that have a big problem with being credible. I may have considered  what you have said, if I had not known the book. I have read it, it has many fundamental inconsistancies. You won't sign a bank document if you found an error on it?

Hasan 



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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 3:00pm
honeto - You mean the Book that contains the Torah and Injel confirmed by Moahammad and Quran?


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: yuzasaf
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 4:12am
Beszél itt valaki magyarul?
 
Yuz Asaf
 
admin: we don't know what that mean so we can not publish it.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by believer

honeto - You mean the Book that contains the Torah and Injel confirmed by Moahammad and Quran?
 
We believe in the label not the contents


-------------
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 5:15am
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=54219&FID=39 - seekshidayath -  LOL!!  Too funny.
 
Seriously though Jesus is the GOOD NEWS, Gospel.  He is the message of the Gospel.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



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