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Hello from Ireland

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Forum Name: Introduction: Who am I?
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Topic: Hello from Ireland
Posted By: Gulliver
Subject: Hello from Ireland
Date Posted: 12 September 2008 at 7:28am
Salam to all here. I am in Ireland. I am not a 'Muslim', but have a friend who is of the Islamic faith, and we share our journeys and experiences of  God/Allah. Actually I met him last year. He is from Algeria and living in Ireland with his family. Strange how you meet people. I was raised with a deep faith in God. But life has a way of taking us down many roads and we can find ourselves lost. God knows I have been 'lost' in more ways than one. I was raised in the Christian/Catholic faith. I learned that the 'right' way is to 'submit' our will to the will of God to know true peace and happiness in life. But it often happens that we are taught the true meaning of this concept incorrectly - in a very fearful, negative way. That God is out to get us, and does not wish us to know happiness at all. It's all about what we can not do, rather than what we might be, or do. And you learn that if you live to your own will, your own whims and desires - you pay the piper. Most here may know already that we truly learn about God the 'hard' way - by going our own way and not heeding the call to a higher good. I began to re learn that God's will is only to will our fulfillment and truest happiness. I know it is the month of Ramadan, and that implies fasting and prayer on a more regular and intense basis. I saw in my friend a person who was disciplined in his prayer life, or seeking to be more so, and I too was someone who had lost myself this way earlier in life. God brought two people of supposedly different 'faith's together and helps us learn to know the importance of God in our lives, and to seek to make God central to everything. This is commanded in the Christian tradition too. We share many things - like the importance of prayer and fasting in this month of ramadan. I am not a Muslim, but have read some and learned a little in the months since our meeting. Often we find that we are saying the same things, just using different language, have different perspectives that God wishes we share to have more clarity on what God wishes to reveal to us. I am interested in learning about all religions. I am not interested in those sites where those who profess to believe in God, speak like they crawled out of a sewer, and call each other the most awful things because they believe their mis understanding of their religious beliefs are the only 'understandings'. I am sure you know what I mean. God speaks to the heart I have come to realise - through the heart, when the heart truly seeks to know Him, through all that same good God creates. My friend and in sharing more, learn so many things from each other - because we are open to hearing what God says to and through the heart that is gifted with faith. I think it is important that this is explored more by people of all faiths and possibly none. It's very often about something being badly taught or misunderstood. We can all learn from each other - and a little humility goes a long way I realise, which is why in my prayer life I too have begun to prostrate more often than not. I can do this in the heart where all intent begins and ends. It does no harm though to humble our self to the will of the Greater Good - God/Allah, by getting down on our knees and prostrating physically to so good a God. It was strange for me. In the Catholic tradition there is a great reverence for Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Islam venerates Miriam and this was the first chapter of the Koran my friend began to read to me. There is a place in Portugal where she, in Catholic tradition is said to have 'appeared' to three little children, telling them of the need for much prayer and for the great need for humanity to return to God.  Before the 'appearance' of Mary - a few weeks before, the children tell of witnessing a beautiful youth, a young man, made of radiant light who comes to prepare them for this other visitor. He says that he is 'the angel of peace.' He tells them 'how to pray' - and shows them - by going down on his knees and touching his forehead to the ground - worhippping and adoring God in his words, and supplicating with God for those who are lost in disbelief. To pray and make sacrificial acts of love for those lost in disbelief and suffering in any way. An interesting story I thought. The place was Fatima, and that it took my meeting a Muslim to realise the significance of the prostration, as it is claimed the children were taught to do by an angel, interesting too. Some times it is true, 'out of the mouths of babes'. It's God's creation and why should that same God not reveal Himself as He wills, and however He wills to this world, even to have us return to the 'right path'.  Excuse my language. I don't know many expressions in Islam or understand about 99.9% of them, yet. I am just learning again myself - or trying to. But I speak sincerely from the heart and this will be understood by those who are open to hearing too. Sorry for going on here. But I hope to learn more from you all, and perhaps we all learn a little about our great and good God from each other. I chose the atavar Al Wadud. In Christianity it is said that, God is Love. My friend said to me in the earliest days of our meeting, that Islam did not believe this, use this 'term'. It was just a question of perspective though. I asked him about the 99 attributes, and if he realised they could all be said to be 'attributes' of love. Then I read in that list of attrbutes the other day - Al Wadud - 'the loving' (?) Humility for us both can work wonders :-) We are all spiritual brothers and sisters, and I think that a very great part of that truest showing and worship and serving of  God can only be truly shown in the love and service of each other as 'brothers and sisters'.
May Allah bless us all on our journey through life, and lead those who are 'lost' along life's many byways back to the path of 'submission' to that highest Good God - Allah.  

Posted By: icforumadmin
Date Posted: 12 September 2008 at 2:19pm
Welcome Gulliver, hope you enjoy your stay.

Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 12 September 2008 at 5:19pm

Salam Gulliver


I understand your love of God or Allah Almighty. This is the same love that all of us, the human creation of God Almighty have towards our Creator. This feeling is in all of us whether we like it or not. This feeling is called the Fitrah The purest soul that we were born with that admits the presence of One and Only God. That can differentiate the good from the bad. That acknowledge the greatness of This Being, without which we are nothing. This is the Supreme Being that gave us our souls, without which, we cannot even lift a finger to type or read these words. The goodness and the bad is in each and everyone of us. It is not as if only some of us have it, while some dont. After all God Almighty is AlAdl Most Just. It is up to us to seek thru us to filter thru us, the good and the bad.


Each and everyone of us are given the Power, the Will to find Him within ourselves. We are born with an Angel and the opposite Satan. We are given the Aql or brain or intellect to balance the good and the bad, the truth from falsity. If we feed our Aql with falsity, we are only suppressing the truth that is within us. And if we feed it with Truth, more doors of Truth will open by itself, because the soul can only be at peace with Truth.


Most of us human beings worship some kind of God, whether directly or thru a third person (thru a creation of the Creator). Why do some of us worship Our Creator thru a creation of Our Creator? Why do they create a third party to be an intermediary between them and God?Because they visualize God with their Aql or brain or intellect. God cannot be reached with our Aql. God can only be reached thru our Souls. The Purest Spirit that He created first before He created other creations in this whole wide universe.


That is our purpose of life. To seek God and to know His innumerable secrets that are all around us. Not thru any of His Creations, but thru our Purest Souls.


I would like to quote from Shaikh Tosun Bayrak al-Jerrahi.


There is no question that complete potential for perfection is contained within every human being, because Allah Most High has placed His own Divine Secrets in the essence of man, in order to bring from unknown realms into evidence His Beautiful Names and Attributes.  But we have forgotten the perfection placed in us before we arrived in the world clad in flesh and bone. Our physical being and its attachment to the world in which it lives, covers and leaves in darkness the beauty and wisdom hidden within us, has made us forget our origin, and left us in a state of ignorance.


Till next time = Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 13 September 2008 at 1:53am
Thank you Admin :-)
And thank you for that Nur Alhi. You have given much wisdom here and I thank you for it. I am in need of such nourishment right now it seems. Even last night, after being with a group of people/friends I know - I felt conflicited deep inside and something was not 'right'. Not with them. With me. I think of Jesus who said, "The Kingdom of God is within you."
You speak the words of this wonderful sage here too, and I think, "the truth will set you free." And that very 'truth' is deep within our very own, as you call it, 'pure soul' - that breath/spirit of God.
I would like to speak more of many matters with you, or others if that is OK. Any feedback :-) I am thinking on what you said here. And I wondered, as I have in the past about some, 'traditions' of man. In certain branches of Christianity for instance. The concept of 'original sin'. "The fall". What that is, means, if anything. How did the very, 'breath of God' corrupt itself ? How did man, created in the 'image of God' 'fall' ? The 'original sin' was very troublesome for many reasons. Not least the theologising of some 'theologians' - that innocent children, who were 'not baptised' would never see the 'vision of God.' It took my working with the dying to break free of so much of that nonsense, and to really begin to truly ask myself about the differing beliefs of people - and especially how 'fear' seemed to dominate so much of religious thinking/belief. Working with the dying can open your eyes to many things I believe. Intitially it can leave you in complete disbelief. That we are nothing more than flesh and bones, who die and rot and are forgotten. It's quite the challenge to deal with that 'dark night'. I don't know how you do. But the irony was, that those same experiences of working with the dying then opened the eyes of the heart and soul to a greater, good and more Compassionate God. It is a wonderful blessing and privelege to be with the person when they are dying, and be able, even once to give them a gift of 'peace' in death, with God's help. It happened once with me, that I cannot forget. A younger man thirty four. He asked me, "Kevin do you belive in God?" He was dying but looked actually very healthy at that time. I was a bit thrown. Thank God, at that stage much of the 'fundamentalist' belief had gone in me, and I began to believe God to be greater and bigger and better than any and all of that 'stuff of fear'. I could never ever believe in a God I feared. It was a nonsense and contradiction to me. I did believe in God. Very much so, and that God is very Good - even in and through the witnessing of suffering and death. God seems a real paradox in so many ways. Like you said - revealing the wonders of His Attributes.
I was at that stage where I'd gone from a state of near, maybe almost complete atheism back to true belief again. I just spoke from the heart and told him exactly what I believed. We talked for nights for some weeks, then I was moved somewhere else. I got a letter from his family whom I had never met thanking me for, "whatever you talked about with Phil at nights, he died in great peace."  Six weeks after our first meeting. He had been raised in a traditional faith that filled his soul with 'fear' - as he knew his death approached.
Dear God, when a poor soul is leaving this world, what an awful thing - and least compassionate to instill in them any kind of 'fear'. Every instinct in my being rejected any thought of acting in any way like that - even though it may have challlenged, or seemed to, what I was raised to believe in my youth.
I like that you quote this Shaikh. I felt myself isolated for a while and being drawn back to people of more 'fundamentalist' belief, and it was conflicting me again. Don't get me wrong. I am not criticising these good people in any way. It just seemed at times I was in the 'wrong' place and there was not always real understanding. Fear is such a predominant aspect in so much of it. Why is that, and what is the truth of it ?
When you speak of the 'angel' and the 'satan'. I think there is such a thing as a 'holy fear'. Something we should seek to nourish pehaps - that we 'offend' God which is done by offending our very self, and the other. I believe this is what is spoken of in the commandments in the OT. What is the role of 'satan' and the 'angel' ? Should we instill a fear of God in any soul ? Have we that right. Isn't it the great goodness and love of God/Allah, when it becomes known to the heart and soul that inspires the soul to a greater good itself. I'd like some thoughts on any of these matters if you have the time or care to speak of them. I apologise for being a bit 'all over the place' here. But I am keen to hear more. I will try and be clearer in my thinking from now on. Can we take this somewhere else now ? I am just new here and not acquainted with layout yet.
Again - thank you for the welcome and the wisdom of your words.
God bless :-)

Posted By: bare
Date Posted: 13 September 2008 at 2:35pm
Salam Gulliver,
Hope you will find the real answers and the real truth. Alot of us "lost" our way in life  but it is never to late to get back on track with guidance from Allah. If you believe in Allah, you will fear him and you will take care of ur steps. Always seek the answers when in doubth. Believe in urself and dont let what others said or do  deter u from  the truth, from God.
sister nur ilahi, that is a good quote,
sgporean? hehe..i was born there too but now live in maryland.

Posted By: bare
Date Posted: 13 September 2008 at 2:43pm
i would like to warn ppl here about this website :islamwatch. i came across it just now and this website is so degrading! There a lot of self-claimed ex-muslims who not only gloat about their revert against islam but speak ill of islam and of course, this came as a great support to the non-muslims who applaused this reverts. This ppl, also urged muslims to join them in reverting against islam and spread lies as well as condeming Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) in a very unpleasant terms. If you someone who have patience, check that out. I was filled with rage. if i can spread my hands on the comp, i would strangle  them all!

Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 2:05am
Hello sister nur alhi ? I am a little confused on names, so forgive. I had to laugh at your last post. That you would love to reach through the computer and strangle them all. LOL. I know how you feel.
There have been many times in life I have wanted to strangle people, and they strangle me. I am dealing with some people now, in the real world, not online, who are on different sides of a fence, so to speak - in a given situation. I am drawn into this situation having just been through one of life's lil old 'war zones' myself. Where you come out barely having survived, but somehow you do.
And it takes time, but as time passes you realise that 'dark night' has some 'light lessons' to give to your soul. I actually joined one of the groups, who were seriously opposing the other. The 'other' group was the one that I myself had suffered with greatly for a number of years.
Through some process I get to sit with, and know this new group of people who are trying to change the first group, 'for the better'. But the more I get to know them, the more I realise that the very problems they are seeking to have changed in the first group are evident amongst themselves as a fledgling group. No one is really communicating the 'truth' to anyone, because none know what the 'truth' of many matters are in this situation. So much speculation and hear say and all of that. And personalities are very often attacked then too - judged, misjudged, condemned, hated even. There is much ignorance in all of this I learn. I become very disillusioned myself, or begin to.
But having tried to seek the 'truth' about my self over the years - a painful and often unpleasant process, I began to see here too just so many wounded, broken hurting souls - selfs. All 'lost' in a sea of confusion, pain and fear. The bottom line was, I was human, I knew it. Someone once said that 'self knowledge is a sure path to God'. I had messed up big time in life. I was a 'basket case' on so many levels, just human - and so were all these people too. And people, being people, rather than look and see and learn about their true selves, will seek to attack what they do not understand in the 'self' of another which is often their own reflection. I did not know what to do, or where to seek help or guidance. I wanted to run to the hills and forget all of it. Leave them all to the madness. But you cannot do that. When you have grown up in a big family, you can come to learn much better that humanity itelf is just a big family, with all the same hangups and stuff that smaller families have.
There is something in what Christ speaks of in the 'great commandments'. We are told to seek God with all our hearts, minds and bodies, and to love the neighnour (other) as we love our very self. If we cannot love the self, know the self, then we can never hope to truly know our neighbour, love the neighbour - the other 'self' -  and God will never be 'known' at any 'true' level for us, it seemed to me. It actually sounded like some brilliant 'psychology'. As the 'road to God' itself is often said to 'be within'.
Anyway, I am blabbering on here and did not mean to at all. I am now in neither 'camp' - having officially left 'both'. But I do know something about the individuals, as ordinary human beings in both 'camps,' and hope, at some point to try and help them see each other as just this - human beings. That there is MUCH dishonesty, dis information, mis information etc, and they are all not really communicating any level of 'truth'fullness to each other within their respective groups - so no real understanding or 'peace' is possible between different groups. At this point it seems it will be a case of sitting with people, one at a time, face to face, and trying, TRYING to get to the real 'truth' of the matter, and share that truth, and God willing - begin on a road to peace - the 'Kingdom of God within' spread without - amongst all.  It's a tall order, and I would rather run away than look any more at it. But you have to try. You do seek guidance, pray and trust that God will guide all to the 'truth' of the 'self', the 'neighbour' - each other, that God's 'peace' will then truly start to reign in the hearts of the individuals and the group. I will seek to try and  plant a few seeds of 'truth' in a few hearts, and pray to the Good God that they bear some fruit. Then I think of what Pilate asks of Christ, "what is truth." Can any of us answer that about our self, the other or God. Now that really is a TALL ORDER. lol  One we must all learn through the journey that is life.  One little thing at a time is all we can do, or we end up fit for nothing and useless to our selves and everyone else.
So keep me in you prayers please and thank you again. 
I hope you are nolonger filled with rage and wanting to strangle them all, or as we say, "kill dead things" - LOL LOL   Pray for them. I know it's hard some times. That they too - as we all need it - be shown the, 'way out of hell and into the Light.'
May Allah lead us all 'out of hell and into the Light'.
I like that quote from Milton - 'Paradise Lost'.  "Long is the road and hard is the way that leads out of hell and into the Light."  It's the same of the level of the self and the 'group' - the family that is humanity.
I think God just expects us to lay one little brick, or even a stone on building that 'bridge' that 'can lead us out of hell and into the Light'.
"Better to light a candle than curse the dark".
Like so much in life. They are mere words, often beautiful words when we first read them, and have to real grasp of what they mean. But you learn.
Over and out.

Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 2:52pm
You may have heard of this Nur Alhi. It's a beautifil poem I found online and would be a wonderful aspiration. 
I live only to do Thy will,
My lips move only in praise of Thee
O Lord, whoever becometh aware of Thee
Casteth out all else other than Thee.
O Lord, give me a heart
That I may pour it out in Thanksgiving
Give me life
That I may spend it
In working for the salvation of the world.
O Lord, give me understanding
That I stray not from the path
Give me light
To avoid pitfalls.
O Lord, give me eyes
Which see nothing but Thy glory.
Give me a mind
That finds delight in Thy service.
Give me a soul

Drunk in the wine of Thy wisdom

Quoted in M. Smith, The Sufi Path of Love, An Anthology of Sufism, London, 1954, p. 82. 

Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 6:30am
Originally posted by bare

Salam Gulliver,
Hope you will find the real answers and the real truth. Alot of us "lost" our way in life  but it is never to late to get back on track with guidance from Allah. If you believe in Allah, you will fear him and you will take care of ur steps. Always seek the answers when in doubth. Believe in urself and dont let what others said or do  deter u from  the truth, from God.
sister nur ilahi, that is a good quote,
sgporean? hehe..i was born there too but now live in maryland.
Selamat datang sahabat.
Hi Bare, I wonder whether you still understand my first welcoming words to you. I believe you do.
I do not have friends or relative in USA except a friend's daughter in Las Vegas. How is Ramadhan there? Are you not missing chendol or kueh lapis that can be found here in plentiful?
I bet you do.
Till next time.
Salam persahabatan.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 6:32am

Hi Gulliver,

I wanted to reply you yesterday, however just when I logged in, my husband wanted to use the computer, so I had to give way.

I will be responding to you in the other section - General Discussion. -

See u there.




Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 2:40am
Hello Nur Ilahi
I will leave this and go to the other place you recommended for posting. I am just putting this here in case you don't see it somewhere else. I am not 'Muslim' in your understanding of the word - and was not raised Muslim. I am Irish, in Ireland and was raised Catholic Christian. Cead mile failte. (One hundred thousand welcomes)  I have only started to look at aspects of Islam since January of this year - because of meeting a Muslim friend. It was strange. He was a man who had 'lost' his way, but in many ways a man of great faith. How can you lose your way with 'great faith' ? Like it all - it's a great paradox it seems. You have to be lost to be found some times.  
I had 'lost' my way too, and wanted to get back to 'seeking God' - something that has always driven me at some level. So the two of us began a journey and it continues. I find the Sufi tradition - or some of those parts of it I have read, very interesting - appealing. It's sounds VERY similar to the 'mystical tradition' in Catholic Christianity. The Creator is sought through and above the Creation. And the Creation is loved the greater, the more we truly seek the Creator in, through and above it all. I honestly believe that there are those in this world who speak exactly the same lanuage spiritually - even though they seem to come from different 'religions' / traditions. You hear what they say and it makes sense to you. That 'unholy' fear does not govern their 'religious' lives in any way - but they are motivated by a desire to seek and truly love God - Allah, the Creator just for being Creator. If I seek God, because of Heaven/Jannah. Then I seek God because of the creation rather than the Creator. I am motivated by love of the creation, the 'reward' - more than a true love of the Creator - God/Allah.  Even in this life, if I love someone because of what they can give me. I don't truly love them at all. In the Christian tradition it says somewhere, "perfect love casts out all fear." Some times I look at the religions of the world, and the divisions they create in and amongst themselves - and you are 'tempted' to stop believing at all. It can be depressing for a time to witness all the stife, supposedly in the 'name of God'. Then perhaps circumstances transpire to create a place in your heart/life where you can let fear go, and begin to rise above and beyond all of theml - 'religions' - where God really is. I am sure I am the worst of heretics and a blasphemer and should be burned at the stake.  When the fear begins to lose its grip, and you can begin to 'see' the Creator in all of them, and in all 'religions'.  I don't know - it's a journey as you know. Maybe that is the way of true Islam - and the real 'way of peace'. I don't know. I am still very 'lost' in so much of it, but learn more as times passes just to 'submit' in that too. If God really is transcendent - then we can waste a lot of energy trying to put God in our respective little boxes, making God in our image - rather than God comforming us to the 'image of God' - in christian religion - to become truly Christ like. I don't know and I don't worry. But I do like to hear what all others have to say :-) God bless and I will go to that other place now.
There is a song - sung beautifully by an Irish singer, Mary Black -
and a few of the lyrics come to mind............   seem appropriate........
 ".......To hold us 'til the day
When fear will lose its grip
And heaven has its way..........
Heaven have its ways.....     for.....

Heaven knows no frontiers......

And I've seen heaven in your eyes.
:-) Take care of yourself there.

Posted By: bare
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 6:29am
sister, Ive been here  for 3 years and it has been a challenge. Cendol...of cause sister...always remembered the foods in sg. went back for eid last year but this year,stucked in muslims family to celebrate eid just do a bit lah for my two sons....

Posted By: bare
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 9:13am
i dont quite understand ur post..but all i can say is that when you have in ur mind, heart and soul of fear for ALLAH,tHE ONE AND ONLY GOD,what others said or do cant and wont bring you down. I was sadly to say,was just a muslim by name,never really practising but eversince i got married to a convert,who is a born christian, i start to guide my every steps. i hate myself for the person i was before and there was never a time that i didnt looked back to my old past and regret every single things and places that had caused me so much neglegient. But of course, my changed wasnt like by others. i felt dejected when being mocked, but i prayed  and repent and its amazing that i felt like im just been born. Just believe and trust ur own self. There are ppl who wudnt like others changing and will constantly try to bring us down and sometimes we felt like it but each time, we remember Allah, it will makes us stronger.

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