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How i became a muslim - S.Ghaffan

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Stories - How I Became Muslim?
Forum Discription: Stories - How I Became Muslim?
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12913
Printed Date: 01 October 2014 at 3:42am


Topic: How i became a muslim - S.Ghaffan
Posted By: seekshidayath
Subject: How i became a muslim - S.Ghaffan
Date Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:00pm

How I became Muslim

 

A must read testimony for every Muslim and non-Muslim 

By S. Ghaffan 

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent the Merciful  

I was born of staunch Catholic Christian parents. My father was a preacher who knew the Bible almost by heart my mother, an orthodox Catholic, would only give us the morning coffee after her return from Church. Even from my youngest days, I was made to memorize certain verses from the Bible. By the time I had completed the study of all the four Gospels and knew many important verses, in those four books, by heart.

 

My father sometimes took me along with him when he went to preach, and from the special attention he paid to my knowing certain controversial points, and his teaching me the methods of explaining to the others those intricacies, it was quite obvious that he wanted me to succeed him in his profession. The strong desire of the paternal love to make me a priest was implemented by educating me with a detailed knowledge of the Bible and the science of ministering it to others. By the time I reached the Form IV in school I could preach the gospels in my own way, supervised by my father. Many senior missionaries admired my knowledge of the important doctrines of the faith. I passed the Form VI and joined College. There I came in contact with several classmates who were Protestants, and some of whom were well versed in the study of the Protestant Bible.

 

I often met my Protestant classmates and discussed matters regarding differences in our faith and the performance of rituals. There were also some Muslim students, but I met them only in the play ground as I hated meeting Muslims whom I took to be dangerous fanatics. By the time I completed the first year in College, I was sufficiently grounded in the knowledge of the Christian faith as held by the Catholic Church and had also considerable knowledge of the Protestant view point. Appreciating this knowledge of the Catholic faith in my young age I was given a scholarship from the church funds and in return for the help I received, I was required to receive special coaching in the guidance of deeper thoughts about certain parts of the Holy Book, under of the Chief Priest of the Church who loved to teach me very much and was very intimately attached to me. He used the special devotional methods of worshiping Jesus and his Holy Mother. Having appeared in the first group for my intermediate course I used to sit working at his subjects till late at night.

 

One night when all were asleep and I was absorbed in my studies an idea suddenly struck my mind to examine the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the Basic formula of the Christian faith. The question, how three different things can be one and the same, arose in my mind i.e. how anything singularly absolute in its unity with its indivisible oneness, can ever by itself become divided into three separate beings with three variant native attributes opposed to each other justifying the distribution into the three different entities.

 

My failure to reconcile my belief in the Trinity with the reasoning of the science of logic, created a mental restlessness in me. Days passed on and many a time I thought of asking my father to help me in solving the problem which was puzzling my mind. But I knew that my father would never appreciate the least doubt in the dogmatic belief of the Catholic School and my venture to discuss anything hated by the Catholic faith, would only create further problems in my domestic life. However, one day when I found my father in a happy mood, I asked him as to how he would defend the Christian faith in the Holy Trinity against the attacks from the members of the other religions of the world. The answer was:

 

"In matters of faith one has to stop reasoning. One should belief in the doctrine only by one's heart and mind." 

This reply from my father upset me further more and disappointed me to a very great extent and all my thinking got centered in the question which had become a definite problem to puzzle my mind further and I wondered saying: 

"What! Is this the Foundation upon which is built the huge edifice of the Christian faith? Is the basis of my own faith only a matter of a blind following of some dictated belief which can never stand reasoning or the independent scrutiny by the dispassionate and impartial arguments from the clean conscience?" 

I became much worried and made up my mind to find some arguments to somehow make my much disturbed mind at least imagine that one could at one and the same time be three different persons, and the three different persons could at the same time remain one.

 



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."



Replies:
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:03pm
 
One day our Mathematics Professor was sitting alone in his room and I got in with his permission and asked him if he would help me to solve something which to me was an intricate and a perplexing problem. He very kindly asked me what it was. I told him to explain to me in what sense one and the same person could be three different beings, and the same three different beings with their individual differences could at the same time be the indivisible absolute one? 

The Professor smiled and said:  

"Is it that you do not like my stay in this college?" 

I asked him: "Why Sir?" 

He said: "What do you think the college authorities which are staunch Catholics will do with me, if some one informs them that I discuss in my private room things opposed to the Catholic or the Christian faith in general? Will they keep me on the staff of the College any longer? If you want to discuss anything here, you may do so but mind you, you must confine your discussion to the subject of your studies in the College, otherwise you will be doing the worst harm to me for I will be thrown out of my job." 

I felt the truth in his statement and made an appointment with him to see him the next Sunday at 3.00 pm in his house. On Sunday when I met the Professor he first asked me as to what made me enquire into the Doctrine of Trinity. I said that I wanted to know how far the doctrine stood to reasoning. 

The Professor smiled and said, "Why don't you ask any one of our priests?" 

I said, "I have asked them but they say it is a matter of belief or faith and it should not be subjected to any logic or philosophy. This has upset me. It has raised the question in me, if what I believe in, is unreasonable and illogical, why should I subject myself to any blind following? Is God so unjust and cruel to expect man to believe in a doctrine about Himself, which no human brain can ever reasonably conceive? I request you, Sir; to some how give me some method of arguing out the possibility of such an existence as the doctrine of Trinity wants us to believe in!" 

The professor smiled and said: "My dear Joseph suppose you want me to prove by some mathematical formula how water can remain water and at the same time be fire, or how a stone can be a stone at the same time be water too, how can I do it? I do not think any sensible man on earth can ever conceive such a possibility. How the Ever living God who being the Ever living Life itself, can also at the same time be a mortal i.e. be a man to suffer death at the hands of the other mortals? And how the same mortal being at the same time could be the Absolute Immortal God? It is a problem which our priests want us to believe and we have to merely believe in it and none has any choice of even questioning the practicability of this inconceivable dogma." 

On hearing the answer I asked him: "Then, what about you, Sir? Don't you also believe in it?" 

He replied: "It is a matter of my own personal and individual choice and decision. Even if I or the world, were to believe in such a doctrine the liability still remains for every believer to answer the question if he or she can prove the doctrine as a reasonable or practical phenomena." 

He went on saying: "The fact is when God, Whom we believe as One, is Absolutely One Being in His perfect unity, it means that God is singularly one in natural essence of His existence, free from any different or variant factors having anything to do with His pure or Absolute Unity to justify His being The Absolute One, owing an indivisible existence, by Himself. Division suggests that the one is not an Absolute One, but a compound of some variants and that which is a composed being can never be really one in the true meaning of oneness. And certainly the one dependent in its existence upon its different components can never be independent in its action, whereas God is the Absolute One, Independently Omnipotent in His Will and His Action." 

"Besides how can any three which are three separate beings, with three variations justify their being three separate entities, remain there separately as they are and at the same time by themselves lose their different individual native properties differentiating them from each other, and become conceivably the absolute indivisible one, without the least variation in the essential oneness." 

"An Absolute one must be totally independent in its existence, Mr. Joseph, as it impossible to reason out the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. The science of Mathematics or any other science which any human genius can ever conceive, until the end of time, can never solve this inconceivable riddle."

 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:09pm
 
He continued: "The only thing is that we, Christians, are shut out of the vast sources of knowledge about the truth and of the higher factors in matters of religion which are available outside our own fold, by damning every non-Christian as the devil's work. We Christians, Mr. Joseph, in our madness to swell up our ranks have played such a disgraceful role that a great head like Sir Dennison Ross had to helplessly disclose the truth about this in his foreword to the translation of the Quran by George Sale." 

I was amazed to hear the arguments of the Professor who was himself known as a Catholic, and at the same time I was very much encouraged to know that my doubt about the unreasonability of the doctrine of Trinity was something which had made a highly educated and enlightened mind like the Professor of Mathematics also to enquire into it. I was much benefited by the discussion with the Professor as I came to know arguments justifying the doubt created in my mind. 

My study of the matter in the Islamic Literature, and the translation of the Quran opened my eyes to many great and very important factors that effect human life on earth. Once I visited the Professor in his house and to my further amazement I found him possessing a great amount of literature on Islam. 

I asked him: 

"May I know, Sir, if you have embraced the faith of the Muslims?" 

He replied:

"It is a question yet to be decided. You do not worry yourself about my personal choice. I, for the time being, want to be known as no other than a Catholic Christian. I will tell you later." 

I took the copy of the translation of the Quran by George Sale and read the introduction by Sir E. Dennison Ross. The introduction needs to be read with special attention. Sir Ross says: 

"For many centuries the acquaintance which the majority of Europeans possessed of Muhammadanism was based almost entirely on distorted reports of fanatical Christians which led to the discrimination of a multitude of gross calumnies. What was good in Muhammadanism was entirely ignored and what was not good in the eyes of Europe was exaggerated or misinterpreted. " 

"The unity of God and that the simplicity of his creed was probably a more potent factor in the spread of Islam than the sword of the Ghaziz." (G. Sale's translation of the Koran - Introduction) 

This statement of the great Christian scholar of international repute, created in me the thirst to know the original teachings of Islam, especially about the Islamic conception of God. 

About four years passed away, and by this time I knew the contents of the Quran. Many things had arrested my special attention. I had discussed many doubtful points with the Professor whom I found to have read the Quran several times with a better and more critical view. I was now longing to meet some Muslim scholar to cross-examine him about certain doubts about the Islamic faith. 

Once I thought of Hinduism but what I saw daily with my own eyes, curses of untouchability and the reservations of the caste system prevalent before us, and besides everything else, the idol worship and the observance of innumerable rituals did not prompt me to take up any enquiry into the tenets, the practice of which manifested in the daily life of the millions of Hindus living with us. I could never understand the superiority exclusively and arbitrarily claimed for the members of certain castes, simply because they had accidentally been born in those folds. I had seen with my own eyes how the people belonging to certain castes are imagined as lower in the society and are treated as the untouchables, not allowed even to enter into the Hindu temples. I had seen these poor souls being prohibited even to take drinking water from the wells reserved for the superior classes. 

I met several Brahmin Pundits but none of them could answer any one of my objections against the several Hindu theories regarding the authorities of the hundreds of gods and goddesses and the observance of the rituals which did not appeal to me in the least. 

The havoc in the social life played by Hinduism dividing humanity into castes and sub-castes and the unreasonable superiority of one caste over the other, is itself so much repulsive that none would like to take any trouble of executing any studies about the doctrines of the faith. 

While resenting the caste system and the sectarian segregation in the Hindu folds, I was automatically reminded of the similar restrictions amongst Christians. Caste hatred has been sunk so deep in the minds of the Hindus that even after entering Christianity they are unable to overcome the complex. 

I asked myself: "Why criticize other people and their belief when the religion which I myself belong to, has in it the sectarian segregation of the Brahmin Christian, the Naidu Christian, the Chuckli Christian and similar sectarian differences, having full sway over the social order? Are not churches in Christendom owned exclusively for the members of particular sects? Are there not churches belonging to a particular sect which cannot be used by the people of the other sect? Has not Christianity failed to unite mankind into one human society? Did Jesus preach all these differences and dissensions which we the Christians have innovated? Is it not then that we are far away from the original objects of the Mission of Jesus Christ?" 

Against the irreconcilable differences and the innumerable dissensions of the social order in the folds of Hinduism and Christianity, I was very much impressed by the genuine and the real brotherhood practiced day and night among the Muslims. I found that a Muslim mosque is a mosque belonging to every one who calls himself a Muslim and that there is no reservation of seats in the mosque or any sectarian segregation in any of the Muslim places of worship. I saw with my own eyes, Muslims of all ranks, all social and economic status, of different complexions, of various nationalities, all standing in one row, turning towards one direction, praying to one God, in one language, and immediately after the prayer, shaking hands with each other. Brotherhood or social equality claimed more in theory by the other schools of thought in the world; I found it to be an ever experienced, and a living reality in the daily life of the Islamic folds.

 



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:15pm

One day I was informed by the Professor who by this time had become an intimate friend of mine that a Muslim scholar was to deliver some talks in English on the life of the Prophet of Islam in a Hall near the Big Juma Mosque, under the auspices of the Muslim Youth Association of Trichinopoly Town. My Professor and I, both attended the three talks and met the Lecturer who was an old friend of the Professor. We had a heart to heart talk with the Lecturer about several important topics. The Lecturer presented to me a few more back numbers of the magazine 'The Peace Maker.' 

"And as for Ishmael I have heard thee, Behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful, and I will multiply him exceedingly, Twelve Princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:20)  

During my meeting with the Muslim Lecturer I asked him if he would kindly answer some questions for my own information. He said: 

"I will most willingly do it." 

I put the following questions which he very cheerfully answered: 

"What proofs have you besides the Quran to establish that Muhammad was truly a Prophet of God?"

 He answered: "Have your own Bible with you?" I said, "Yes." 

He took the following verses and read them to me one after another: 

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise unto you of your brethern, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you." (Acts 3:22) 

"And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that Prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." (Acts 3:23)

 "Yea! And all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days." (Acts 3:24) 

"This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A Prophet shall the Lord raise up unto you of your brethern, like unto me; him shall ye hear." (Acts 7:37) 

In John Jesus says: 

"I will pray the Father, and he shall give another comforter - that he may abide with you forever." (John 14:16) 

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye can not bear them now." (John 16:12) 

"Howbeit, when he the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you unto all truth for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; he will show you things to come." (John 16:13) 

I read the passages which I had already gone through several times before, but this time the perfect confidence with which the Lecturer asked me to read the verses from my own sacred scriptures in support of his claim, threw a new light upon them for me to understand the matter dispassionately. Yet I replied: 

"But the prophecy is about the advent of Jesus?" 

He smiled and said: 

"You read the verse again! Does not the verse say that God will raise a Prophet like unto Moses" i.e. He will be a man born of a father and a mother as was born Moses; whereas Jesus was born only of a mother. Besides, the Prophet promised by God must be a man like Moses but you yourself call Jesus as the son of God. Moses was a law giving Prophet and the one like him must also be a law-giver, whereas Jesus was only a law-abider, following the law or the Ten Commandments already introduced through Moses. Besides, one must betray his common sense as well as his learning to say that, I and He, the two different person i.e. The First and the Third person mean the same, or the one who departs prophesying about the advent of some one else, to be one and the same." 

The argument was quite reasonable and unbreakable. Then I asked the Lecturer: 

"Do you not believe in Jesus as the son of God? Cannot Jesus be God himself in the form of a man?" 

The Lecturer smiled and very cheerfully replied: 

"Can there be a son to any one without a wife, my friend? Can anyone, or you yourself, who believes in the sonship of Jesus, at any time sensibly imagine Virgin Marry to have been used by God as a wife was done to conceive an issue? Let us seek protection of God against any such devilish straying of our minds. Sonship, if used in the Bible, can be used only to mean a creature or the one who has received life from God. Otherwise what do you say about Jesus addressing himself as a son of man? 

"The son of man is come eating and drinking and ye say, behold a gluttenous man, and a wine biber, a friend of publicans and sinners." (Luke 7:34) 

"The son of man be ashamed." (Luke 9:26) 

"Jesus addressed God as his father and also as our father which means that God is taken as the father of Jesus as much as He is the father (or the Creator) of any one of us, and hence Jesus' sonship can mean in the sense of a creature of God, the term son of God used by Jesus can be used only in sense of a servant of God - as Jesus himself refers to himself as God's servant. This fact is testified by the verses by which every prophet of God until Adam has been termed as the son of God in Luke 3rd Chapter in verses from to 30 Jesus is called as the son of Joseph and the genealogy of Joseph is traced to Adam and Adam is called the son of God. Read the 30th verse of the same chapter." 

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." (Luke 3:37) 

(These ready answers from the Bible created a very deep impression upon my mind about the mount of comparative study the Muslims do and how strong and reasonable they are in their faith about Unity of God. One can say that the faith of the Muslims is not a matter of mere blind following of any prescribed belief in unreasonable dogmas but it is the result of a sincere comparative study of the various schools of though.)



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 August 2008 at 7:20pm

I asked the Lecturer: 

"Do you Muslims study every other religion before you embrace Islam?" 

The lecturer replied: 

"No. Even as we remain Muslim, born of Muslim parents, we have been commanded by God to compare and contrast the truth, i.e. Islam, with every other faith and then own for ourselves a belief or conviction of our own which alone shall be acceptable to God as mere blind following of any particular doctrine, be that from our own parents, will not be of any credit to such a believer. Read what the Holy Quran enjoins upon those who have already professed Islam as their faith merely by heredity." 

I asked: 

"Do you believe in the Holy Bible as a Heavenly Book or not?" 

In reply to my question the Lecturer requested me to answer the following questions: 

1) "Is the Bible, which is in your hands, the book which Jesus wrote as a scripture revealed by God or to be called the book of his own?" 

I had to say, "No." 

2) "Did Jesus order or desire at any time in his life to write anything on his behalf?" 

"No." 

3) "Was this Bible which is in your hands written during the time of Jesus?" 

"No." 

4). "Was this Bible which is in your hands today written immediately after the departure of Jesus?" 

"No." 

"Then" he said, "Please read page 17 in 'The Founder of Christianity and His Religion' published by the Christian Literature Society, Madras. It is said in the Book: 

The whole Bible contains sixty six books written by forty different authors over a space of about fifteen centuries. 

It is clearly said in the book that:

'Jesus Christ himself wrote nothing.' 

Oral teaching was for several years - the only means employed in the spread of Christianity. It was for the guidance of those young converts, that the earliest writings of the New Testament were composed." 

The same book further discloses that: 

"They were probably written about twenty years after the death of Christ." 

On page 18 it is stated: 

"The Gospels do not give a complete history of the Life of Christ, they are rather memoirs."

I said:

"But the Bible is the word of God inspired and written by the disciples of Jesus." 

He again smiled and said: 

"Mr. Joseph, if the Bible is the Book of the disciples and of Jesus, how would you account for the differences in the Book, if it is an inspired word of God. Does not the Catholic Bible Duay contain some books which the Protestant version does not own? Have you read what Mr. Wilson says about the Bible, in his introduction to the 'Diaglot' published by the Watch Tower Society?": 

"If it had not been published by kingly authority it would not now be venerated by English and American Protestants, as thought it had come direct from Cod. It has been convicted of containing over 20,000 errors. Nearly 700 Creeks MSS. are now known and some of them very ancient whereas the translator of the common version had only the advantage of some 8 MSS none of which was earlier then the tenth century." 

"Is not the Bible based upon only 8 manuscripts whereas there are 700 manuscripts now available? If what is contained in all such manuscripts is also the inspired word of God, why were these manuscripts left away? In view of all these facts brought to your light, if you still believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God, you may do so but you can't expect the whole world to do it. If you make a serious and an impartial study of the Old and the New Testaments, you will find in them the amount of blasphemies which the Jewish mind has fabricated against Lot , David, Noah and Abraham who were the Holy Apostles of God viz: 

"And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard. And he drank of the vine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan , saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two breathren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness." (Gen. 9:20-23) 

"Lot committing adultery with his own daughters." (Gen. 19:36) 

"David taking possession of his neighbor's wife." (II. Sam, 11:4) 

I asked, "What? Do you Muslims believe in the prophets of God other than Muhammad to be totally sinless and holy?" 

He answered me by reciting to me the following verses of the Holy Quran: 

"Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. " (Quran 2:136)

 "The Apostle (Muhammad) believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers, (i.e. Muslims) they all believe in Allah (God) and his angels, His book (the different holy scriptures) and His Apostles; we make no difference between any of His apostles."



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 4:32am
 
The following verse of the Holy Quran informs us of the fact that Prophets were raised by God, among all nations in all parts of the earth: 

"There is not a nation but a Warner has gone among them." (Quran 35:24) 

It convinced me that Islam alone, is an all comprehensive faith which recognizes all other religions and which contains in it a perfectly harmonious integration of all the good, found partly in the other religious orders of the world. The sacred book of Islam i.e. the Holy Quran, is the final exposition of the Divine Truth in its Perfection which was revealed at different times, through the other heavenly scriptures, in parts suiting the various evolutionary levels. 

The above verses of the Holy Quran bear clear of conception by the human minds. The limitation testimony to the, fact that, as one of the fundamentals of the human mind of the different ages, did not of his Faith, every Muslim has to believe not only allow even prophets like Jesus to speak out the whole in the Holy Prophet Muhammad but in all the other of the truth. Jesus had to depart with many things prophets as truthful and holy and should not make yet to be told to his people. (John. 16:14). Jesus had to tell his people to wait until the advent of the Spirit of Truth to disclose the whole of the Truth. (John 16:13) 

I was further impressed by the Universal aspect of the religion Islam. 

Every answer from the Lecturer was with an unchallengeable authority and with an unbreakable argument. I was awakened to differentiate between genuine truth and the fabrications of falsehood and to know many new factors to which I was blind all these years. But I did not know how to reconcile the dawn of true knowledge of truth with my original blind dogmatic belief and my belonging to the Christian faith any longer. I wanted to find out some failure on the part of the Lecturer to answer satisfactorily some questions or the other, so that I may have some excuse, be that even a false one, to maintain my position in the Christian faith. 

The Lecturer continued after some time with the question: 

"Shall I ask you something if you do not mind answering it for my information? " 

I said: "Yes". 

He asked: "Do you think Jesus to be a son of God or God himself?" 

I said: "Jesus, according to the Christian belief is God Himself in the form of His Son." 

He asked: "Can you ever conceive anyone to be the immortal God and at the same time be a mortal (Man) to be caught in the hands of other mortals to suffer death? Can anything be high and at the same time low, black and at the same time be white? Can there be darkness and the same time light? What philosophy is this?" 

The Lecturer continued saying:  

"Do you ever consider that there is one other question confronting the doctrine of the Trinity which needs to be answered by every Trinitarian that if any three different beings which are three different entities, are also at the same time One, with absolute unity in all the perfect sense or meaning of Oneness, what is the common control which makes them remain three and also be one at one and the same time? If there be any factor of such a wonderful and inconceivable phenomena causing this amazing effect, then that supreme causative power, which controls the number and the unity, will alone be the Omnipotent God and not any one of the three which are only the controlled components." 

"Besides, there arises another problematic question which a believer in the Trinity will have to answer i.e. as to whom is that controls or determines the splitting of one into only three different others, to be neither more nor less in number? There must be some cause for this controlled effect and that the causative factor acting supreme over three will be the Omnipotent God and not any one of the three which will only be the effect of the supreme controlling cause." 

"Similarly, will arise the question, what is the causative power which affects the three to be only one when joining together and not divided into many groups of beings and if there be any such cause, that supreme controlling cause will be the Omnipotent God and not anyone of the three which will only be the subservient one." 

"Under any circumstances no sensible man can ever reasonably believe in any effect whatsoever without some causative factor effecting it." 

"However the Holy Trinity is only a problematic doctrine created by the Christian Church which no logical reasoning can ever prove true." 

I had to helplessly agree to the views of the Lecturer for I could not now reasonably believe in the existence of anything being itself and at the same time being its own opposite. 

"I would like you, Mr. Joseph" said the Lecturer, "to ponder a little over the belief that Jesus being God Himself or the son of God, was so terrified at the impending crucifixion that he shouted: 

"Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani" (My God, My God, hast thou forsaken me?) (Matthew 27:46) 

"What philosophy is that? If Jesus was God Himself, does it mean that God was forsaken by God Himself and can that be God who felt hopeless and shouted to be rescued? 

"Your Bible itself, Mr. Joseph, reports that the son of God was forsaken by his father (God) in which case the forsaken son automatically and quite naturally forfeits his personal merits as a son and his relationship of being a son to his father. What do you say? Of what profitable use can the attachment to a forsaken son be? Mr. Joseph, please tell me." 

I was struck dumb - I did not know what to say and what to do with the faith I already possessed as a staunch Christian. 

"Besides," the Lecturer continued: "Do you think Jesus to be God Himself when he falls down crying, praying to someone else to remove the cup of death by crucifixion? " 

I asked: "Alright Sir, how do you reconcile the violence used by the Prophet of Islam to his being an Apostle of God?" 

Immediately came the reply from the Lecturer: "Please, Mr. Joseph, quote a single instance from the whole life history of the Holy Prophet Muhammad to show that he has ever committed any unprovoked aggression or any single instance of his taking the least initiative in attacking any single soul. Each expedition of a battle he led or he allowed was only in self-defense. Had he not defended as he did, today his advent in this world and his teachings about the truth about God which the world has learnt only through his holy mission, would have become legends of ancient times full of blasphemies for you and for me, only to be read in story books and thus be deluded by falsehood for all times. The Bible does not preach self-defense. The Bible only preaches self-surrender to the extent of handing over everything of one's possession when anything which was in one's hand has been taken away by any aggressor. Does any Christian power follow this?" 

"Apart from the political history of the Christian nations of Europe do you not remember the inhuman methods employed by Christendom to spread its faith?"



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 4:34am
 
I was ashamed to hear what has been reported and I had to listen quietly to the records of the disgraceful conduct of the Christians. I, at last, ventured to ask one more question, "There is the doctrine of atonement or expiation of sins of men through the blood of Jesus. Jesus having paid the price of the sins of man i.e. he who believes in Jesus is cleansed and saved. Have you any such accommodation in Islam?" 

The Lecturer smiled and replied: "My friend, the greatest of God's gifts to man is common sense. If man forfeits it of his own accord, then none can help him." 

"First let me know if this doctrine appeals to reason and common sense. A, for example, a Christian by faith i.e. a believer in Jesus Christ as his Savior, plunders the house of B and the members of B's family. Does sense or logic agree to A being let off unpunished by any law, particularly the Law of the All Just Lord of the Universe, simply because A accepts Jesus as his Savior?" 

I had to say, "No". Because, to say otherwise would mean I forfeit my common sense and go against reasoning. 

He continued:  

"There is one very grave aspect of the doctrine of atonement through the blood of Jesus i.e. when we pay for a thing, the thing becomes our own and the previous owner of the thing forfeits all his claim over it for the price he has already received. Is it not?" 

I said, "Yes". 

Then he said:  

"If the sins of man have been paid for, God has no right to punish any sinner every sinner who merely believes in Jesus would be free to do anything in the world which his brutal passion dictates him to do, for God his Lord has no right whatsoever even to question any sinner, for Jesus has met the cost of all his sins. Can this ever be sensible logic or common sense? Can this doctrine help life on earth to continue for one moment in peace and security?" 

He continued: "Please remember, Islam wants every individual to be kept bound by his being answerable with his individual responsibility to virtue against vice, in the interest of his own individual life as well as the interest of the collective life in this world, himself as a member of not only the human race but also of the creation of the Lord as a whole. Islam continuously invites and encourages man towards righteousness with the promise of the blissful life in the hereafter and repeatedly warns him against vice and the consequent chastisement from the All-just Lord. The Holy Quran repeatedly warns saying: 

"And be on your guard against a day when one soul shall not avail another in the least, neither shall intercession on its behalf be accepted nor shall they be helped." (2:28) 

"Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he goes astray; nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do we chastise until we raise an apostle." (17:15) 

"O ye men! Surely we have created you of a male and female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty) surely Allah is knowing, Aware." (49:13) 

"While threatening man with grievous punishment in recompense for his evils, the Holy Quran discloses also the infinite mercy of the All-Merciful Lord who does not want man, however, much a sinner the individual be, to be totally dejected or hopeless of the merciful pardon from Him. The only condition for the pardon he needs, being the sinner's repentance against his vices, with his intention of amending his conduct in the future, and turning whole heartedly to obedience and gratitude to the All-Merciful Lord for His Infinite Grace." 

"For goodness sake, tell me, Mr. Joseph, which do you think is reasonable and sensible, either making man intoxicated and careless against sinning, i.e. making him unreasonably confident of the price of his sins as having already been paid by someone or alerting with his commitment to virtue against vice, i.e. keeping him warned of the natural consequence of getting punishment by the All-Just Lord, against any misconduct or disobedience? " 

I felt that I had that day understood the hollowness of the doctrine of atonement upon which is built the whole edifice of the Christian faith. The divine mercy of the Lord dawned upon my heart, a new light of the divine guidance. I thanked God for liberating me from the clutches of the grossly misleading dogmatic doctrine and leading me to Islam which I have myself found through an impartial enquiry that it is the Right and the Straight Royal Road to Salvation which the All-Merciful Lord Himself has shown man through this Last Apostle Muhammad, may peace be on Him and his divinely chosen descendants. 

When I disclosed my acceptance of the true arguments advanced by the Lecturer and thanked him, he told me: 

"Mr. Joseph! You must thank God for blessing you with the fulfillment of His merciful promise to every sincere seeker of truth!" 

The All-Merciful Lord by His infinite mercy has fulfilled His merciful promise to give mankind the everlasting guidance through the Holy Prophet Muhammad who would abide in his guidance for all times. (John 16:14) 

In Muhammad was fulfilled the divine promise for the Prophet, and the promise of the Lord to raise Twelve Princes in the seed of Ishmael was fulfilled in God's raising the Twelve Holy Imams in the family of the Holy Prophet Muhammad who is the divinely chosen issue of Ishmael. 

"And as for Ishmael I have heard thee, Behold, I have blessed him and will make him fruitful, and I will multiply him exceedingly, Twelve Princes shall he beget and I will make him a great nation." (Gen. 17:20) 

All these Holy Imams were of the purest character and of an undoubtedly godly conduct and though they never received any education from any other mortal in this world, all of them, like the Holy Prophet Muhammad, were the wonderful stores and the Divinely caused fountainheads of knowledge to enlighten the world with the true knowledge about the Lord of the Universe. 

Eleven of these Twelve divinely commissioned Imams or Guides lived as the perfect models of pure humanity in complete resignation to the Divine Will and all of them were martyred. If any one wants to see a perfect model of a man surrendering his all, most willingly suffering the worst and the most painful affections in the way of the Lord severed, one must see the Holy Imam Hussain at Karbala. 

The world will find Hussain not shouting, "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabachthani. " 

Or desiring in the least the removal of the cup of death, but drinking it cheerfully, glorifying the Lord in his last thanks-giving prayers while he was being butchered in the most heartless way. 

As the promise of God to give mankind a Prophet to abide for ever has been recorded in the Old Testament this Great Sacrifice has also been prophesied in, Jeremiah 46:10 "For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries; and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; for Lord God of Hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates." 

After coming across so many sane and unbreakable arguments against the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and also about many other fundamentals of Christian belief, I only wondered how such an unreasonable faith could attract such a huge number of people in the world. Once I found my father returning home very happy and immediately as he arrived he called me and said: 

"You will be glad to know my dear son that, today I got 109 souls into our fold. At the baptism of such a big number in one day the Rev. Father, the Chief of Our Mission praised my services very much and has increased my salary as well my traveling allowance and has awarded me with a token reward of Rs. 109 corresponding to the number baptized through my efforts." 

I asked: "Who are they, father, who were baptized today?" 

The reply was: "They are from five surrounding villages. There are men, women, and children, 109 souls together." 

I asked: "Are they all educated?" 

The reply was: "No. They are the poor people of the cherries (slums). They are only laborers in the paddy fields of their villages." 

I asked if they had understood fully their undertaking as converts to the Christian faith. Would every one of them stand any cross examination against their decision to leave the folds they were in, and their joining the Christian belief?

The reply was: "What do you mean? I told you they are all uneducated poor illiterates; laborers from the slums. The group consists of men, women, and children. Now, I will have to go there every day and coach them up in the doctrine of our faith." 

On hearing this I smiled, and seeing me smiling my father asked: "Why do you smile, Joseph? What is the matter?"



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 4:37am
 
I said: "Nothing father! I do not see in this mass conversion, any matter of pride or pleasure which any true religion or any genuine or reasonable faith can claim for itself, for it is nothing but exploiting the illiteracy and ignorance of the poor laborers. It is leading the mentally blind ones into something which they neither know nor recognize. Do you think father that any sensible man can reasonably be proud over his getting some illiterate men, women and children to accept his own ideals and justifiably claim the least merit or value to his thoughts?" 

"While the entry into a faith like Islam is effected only after a detailed study and enquiry by the learned ones with perfect conviction, we Christians pride over our success in swelling up our ranks by mass conversions of illiterate laborers, who, by circumstances, are forced to accept the Christian doctrines without knowing what they do is right or wrong? An ignorant mind is like a blank sheet, one can draw upon it whatever one's fancy chooses and once the inscription is made to be settled upon such raw material, any artist can pride over the plate having any particular design of his own. If today to win the sympathy of the ignorant masses, we boast before our illiterate converts of our humanity and self sacrifices in the cause of the spread of our faith, will the outer world also forget the Edict of Milan, father, and will all the records of the history of the brutal outrages that Christendom committed against the poor helpless Jews, in its own passionate eagerness and anxiety to swell its ranks, all together totally vanish?" 

I continued: "If you kindly permit me father, I would like to know from you if this Bible in your hands is to be merely read memorized and preached to the others or is it to be acted upon in our daily life? If it is to be acted upon will you kindly show me father, if the Christian world could ever practice the principle of turning the other cheek also if one is already smitten? Could any sincere Christian till now, give away his shirt when his coat was taken away?

Will you, father, surrender our whole house if any body invades our residence and takes possession of any of the rooms in these premises? If the Christian powers of the world really believe in this doctrine of self surrender, why do they maintain their military and the police forces? Kindly tell me, father, if there is any earthly use of merely believing in any golden ideals which can only adorn the pages of some books and which can only be preached but never practiced. Why should we not reasonably accept the doctrine of self-defense taught by Islam and the principle of pardoning our offenders if they are repentant? For goodness sake let me know, father, how can three different ones at the same time be an absolute one, both numerically and also in the essential nature of perfect unity? On what reasonable grounds can the one who is forsaken by God, be God Himself and if Jesus is to be believed as the son of God what claim to the relationship with his father can a forsaken son have?" 

"What right has Christendom to claim any truth in it when its spread was caused by the inhuman atrocities committed by the Christian forces against the poor helpless Jews? The conduct of the brutal outrages committed in the holy name of Christ, has been fully reported even by the Christian authorities on Edict of Milan and by the world renowned Christian Scholar Gibbon in his famous work, 'The Decline and the Fall of the Roman Empire ."

"The Doctrine of Atonement through the blood of Christ, will naturally attract those sinner who have sinned and who do not want to give up sinning under the protection of the doctrine that the price of their sins has already been paid away and however much worst sinners they themselves choose to be, they will not in the least be chastised for their heinous crimes, for, after Jesus having paid away for the sins of man, God must have forfeited His claim to punish the sinners thereafter."

There are many such things father which need a dispassionate study and an impartial judgment. 

"I tell you father, that whatever be the consequences and whatever misfortune may afflict me, I as one, have decided not to sell away or forfeit my conscience and common sense to the belief in such unreasonable dogmatic doctrines. I have embraced Islam, and if you do not get angry with me and kindly allow me to explain to you the details of my enquiries, I will do it whenever I am wanted to do so I do not like any thought or belief of mine to be swallowed by anyone by force, for the religion Islam, which I now openly declare to have embraced, enjoins that there shall not be any compulsion in the matter of faith as the truth has been revealed against falsehood." 

To my utter surprise I found my father fully attentive to exposing my personal views and convictions and at the end he said: 

"Son! Do not think that your father is a fool I have been occasionally confronted with such ideas during my life whenever I had the occasion of discussing religion with my Muslim friends. But today the sincerity and the boldness with which you expose your own convictions make me bold to decide about the matter. I shall tell you later but, for God's sake keep this matter strictly confined to you. Otherwise be sure we will be thrown out into the street as destitute." 

A few days later my father had a long talk and he decided to declare himself a Muslim. The details of our sufferings and the social persecution we had to pass through is a history by itself. 

I, now, for the information and guidance of every seeker after Truth, openly declare the actual findings of my sincere enquiry that Islam is not only the last of the mighty religions which had revolutionized the world and changed the destinies of nations, but it is also the perfect and all inclusive faith which contains in itself all the good, found partly in all other religions which had preceded it. One of the most distinguishing and striking characteristics of Islam is that it requires of its followers to believe that all the religions of the world that preceded it were revealed by God for the respective people of those ages. 

It is one of the fundamentals of this faith that its followers must believe in all the Prophets who were sent into the world before the Holy Prophet MUHAMMAD as truthful and sinless. 

Muhammad is the name of the Holy Prophet through whom all this comprehensive Faith was revealed in its complete or perfect form and meaning, for humanity as a whole for all times. It is the West that named this Faith as Mohammadanism on the fashion of Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism and Hinduism. Otherwise the name of this religious order is already given in its book the Holy Quran as ISLAM as quite opposed to the method of naming the order after its founder, the founder of Islam himself is called a MUSLIM as any other believer. As the various prophets preached this same Truth among different nations at different times in different languages, every Apostle of God is spoken of in the Holy Quran as a Muslim. 

Thus I have found, beyond all doubts that Islam is the religion which humanity needs for its progress in all spheres or aspects of its material as well as Spiritual life, to earn Salvation in the end. 

A Muslim has to believe in all the prophets as truthful and sinless and their holy books as the true word of God, revealed for the people and for the age, and also believes in Muhammad as the last of the apostles of God and his book i.e. the holy Quran as the last of the revealed Word of God to abide forever. 

In short, a Muslim embraces, through the holy Quran. Every beauty in every religion, and turns his face from that which has been added to the religion of God by man, and that is Islam. 

With the truth sufficiently explained, will not every one of us love it? Or will not every one of us embrace it? 

This solemn declaration I make just to be helpful to those who sincerely desire to know the Truth which they need for themselves to live the life in this world to reach the blissful destination which is called salvation. 

None can ever deny that there can never be any other way to please God than completely surrendering ourselves to His Will, an act which is called ISLAM. 

Thus the promise of the Lord to Abraham's seed was fulfilled in the Advent and success of the Holy Prophet in establishing the Truth for all times: 

New Testament Acts: 3:22-25 

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, a Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your breathren, like unto me, him shall ye hearken-in all things whatsoever he shall stay unto you." 

"And it shall come to pass, that every soul which will not near that Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people." 

"Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days." 

"Ye are the children of the Prophets, and of the Covenant which God made with our fathers saying unto Abraham. And in thy seed shall all the kindred of the earth be blessed." 

I once again make it openly known that this true and sincere declaration of some facts is meant for not anyone who does not like to know anything against his fixed belief, but for those free thinkers who are seriously busy in search of the Truth and are ready to acknowledge it irrespective of the quarter or the agency through which it manifests. 

Let me conclude with my sincerest thanks and gratitude to the merciful Lord for I have realized the fulfillment of His merciful promise to guide aright those who sincerely seek the truth.  

By S. Ghaffan

 



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 August 2008 at 4:39am
 
Reference to Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad (pbut) in that order 

"And this [is] the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran , and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand [went] a fiery law for them." (Deuteronomy 33:1) 

This is a chronological succession of prophets which is narrated through reference to location. These prophesy is reported at the end of Deuteronomy in association with the story of the death of Prophet Moses (pbuh). It was a blessing and glad tidings bestowed by Prophet Moses upon his followers just prior to his death. It was designed to give his followers hope upon the occasion of the passing of their prophet that God is not abandoning them, rather, the best is yet to come, and He shall continue to bless mankind with His guidance and His light. 

Sinai is a reference to Moses (pbuh). It is an obvious reference to Mount Sinai where Moses (pbuh) received his revelation (Exodus 19:20). 

Seir is a reference to Jesus (pbuh). It is usually associated with the chain of mountains West and South of the Dead Sea extending through Jerusalem , and Bethlehem , the birthplace of Jesus (pbuh). It was later extended to include the mountains on the East side as well (Dictionary of the Bible, John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 783). However, Seir is also identified with the Northern border of the tribal territory of Judah and usually with Saris near Kesla (Chesalon), barely nine miles West of these two cities (The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary, by Allen C. Myers, pp. 921-922, and The Interpreter' s Dictionary of the Bible, V4, p. 262) Prophet Moses (pbuh) never in his lifetime entered Palestine, and thus, this could not be a reference to him. 

Paran is a reference to the city of Makkah in the Arabian Peninsula . The wilderness of Paran is where Abraham's wife Hagar and his eldest son Ishmael settled (Genesis 21:21) in the Arabian Desert , specifically, Makkah. Makkah is, of course, the capital of Islam in Arabia and the birthplace of Mohammed (pbuh). Mount Paran is the chain of mountains in that same region which the Arabs call the " Sarawat Mountains ". Muhammad (pbuh) received his first revelation in the cave of "Hira'a" located in these mountains. Jesus never in his life traveled to Paran. Mohammed, however, was born there. He became the prophet of Islam there. And it was the capital of the Islamic religion in that day and this. No prophet of the Bible ever came from the Arabian city of Paran (Makkah). Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the only prophet of God who has ever fulfilled this prophesy.

 Source: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4073 - http://www.turntois lam.com/forum/ showthread. php?t=4073



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 13 September 2008 at 12:22pm
"I was born of staunch Catholic Christian parents. My father was a preacher who knew the Bible almost by heart my mother, an orthodox Catholic, would only give us the morning coffee after her return from Church. Even from my youngest days, I was made to memorize certain verses from the Bible. By the time I had completed the study of all the four Gospels and knew many important verses, in those four books, by heart."
 
Hello seekshidayath. You claim you were born of 'staunch Catholic Christian parents' here, and that your 'father was a preacher' ?  Where exactly where you raised in this staunch Catholic orthodox family where you father was a preacher ? This passage throws serious doubts on your claims to be whom you say you have been. I was raised a 'staunch Catholic' and I have not known of a 'father' to be a 'preacher' in Catholicism. The priests do the preaching, and marriage is forbidden to R Catholic priests. Maybe I have read this wrong, and if so I apologise. But this just does not ring true at all here. There are other things you claim that make me doubt you to be what you claimed to have been raised too. I'll add to that when you get back on the Catholic father as 'preacher'. 
 
Allah Akbar
 
 


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 1:45am
Originally posted by Gulliver

"
 
Hello seekshidayath. You claim you were born of 'staunch Catholic Christian parents' here, and that your 'father was a preacher' ?  Where exactly where you raised in this staunch Catholic orthodox family where you father was a preacher ? This passage throws serious doubts on your claims to be whom you say you have been. I was raised a 'staunch Catholic' and I have not known of a 'father' to be a 'preacher' in Catholicism. The priests do the preaching, and marriage is forbidden to R Catholic priests. Maybe I have read this wrong, and if so I apologise. But this just does not ring true at all here. There are other things you claim that make me doubt you to be what you claimed to have been raised too. I'll add to that when you get back on the Catholic father as 'preacher'. 
 
Allah Akbar
 
 
 
Hello Gulliver,
 
Welcome to our boards of discussions at IC.
 
Alhamdulillah, am a born muslim. That was a story shared. Smile 
 
But still i shall try to get your doubt cleared, insha Allah. I did not know that. If am not wrong your question is, how can "father" { a catholic}  be a preacher , right ? Kindly, clear it.
 
You are welcome to get any of your doubts clarified. InshaAllah, shall try my best to answer it or get it answered.
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 2:41am
Hello Seekshidayath. I aplogise. I was unsure whom the story was supposed to be referring to, and was confused on the names. I had read some of your comments/posts elsewhere and did wonder. There is something about this 'story' that is just not 'right'.  It's all too 'protestant' to be coming from a supposed 'catholic'.  I may be wrong. But I do not believe the author of this story was raised Catholic at all. The entire post is dubious, questionable, when you wonder that the one claming to have lived this supposed life is not telling the truth at all. Again - if I am wrong I apologise. I don't believe I am though. It sounds like one of those 'stories' that is really about undermining other 'faiths' than seeking any kind of 'truth' about anything 'faith'ful at all - about God the giver of 'faith' itself.
 
God bless you. 


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 2:59am
 
"I was born of staunch Catholic Christian parents. My father was a preacher who knew the Bible almost by heart my mother, an orthodox Catholic, would only give us the morning coffee after her return from Church. Even from my youngest days, I was made to memorize certain verses from the Bible. By the time I had completed the study of all the four Gospels and knew many important verses, in those four books, by heart."
 
The author is claming that his parents were staunch catholic christians. Then he says that his father was a 'preacher'. Catholic fathers do not 'preach' in the churches, though it might be an idea if they were allowed to. It is the role of the 'priest' - like the Imam in the Mosque. The supposedly 'educated' ones are the 'preachers' in all kinds of 'churches'. And if he were that staunch a Catholic - why is there no sense of that at all in the entire post. Catholics were not generally, if at all, raised 'memorising' the bible. This guy has catholicism and protestantism seriously mixed up somewhere along the line and that makes me doubt his real intention and 'argument' with everything else - least of all his sincere desire to be truthful or seek truth.


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 3:20am
This is a difficulty for people of a similar faith, let alone those of supposedly 'different' faiths. Within Islam itself - there are 'sects' I believe, at least 'sunni' and 'sh'ite' (?) I am sure that perhaps one could tell the other, by the way they 'speak' and relate on matters, even online.
 
I don't know if you will be able to answer this Seeks. The 'argument' that he is trying to make on matters theological may be 'logical' or 'sensible' - or seem that way. But that is what it is to me - 'seem'ingly that way - like the entire post - 'seem's to be something that's it's not - because it's not based on a solid foundation - a simple 'truth' that the author was, is who he claims to have been/be - 'raised a staunch catholic christian' with a 'preacher' father, and the rest. I'd need great 'faith' indeed to believe this particular 'story'.
 
That's the real question.
 
Is, was the author who he claims to have been, be ? I don't know if that can be answered, except in meeting him for real. I'd know in a few mins, or less, whether he had 'staunch catholic' parents or not, and if really were the 'son of a preacher man'. 
 
 


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 7:32pm
I  had no  knowledge of it earlier that , {catholic } fathers are n't allowed to preach. Your question made me to study it. But finally, i had to get it answered with the help of a brother.
 
Even though a great majority of Roman Catholics have priests, it is likely that a few groups (denominations) among the Roman Catholics do have preachers.

For example:

1.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preacher

The preaching of sermons is especially prominent in Protestantism, especially among those denominations that feature revivalism. Lay preachers often figure in these traditions of worship, for example the Methodist local preachers. Among Roman Catholics, the Dominican Order is officially known as the Order of Preachers (Ordo Praedicatorum in Latin); friars of this order were trained to publicly preach in vernacular languages, and the order was created by Saint Dominic to preach to the Cathars of southern France in the early thirteenth century. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Catholic_Church_%28Old_Catholic%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Catholic_Church_(Old_Catholic)

Dominicans in the RCC: The Order of Preachers also has an order in the Church; it is called the 'Order of Preachers of St. John the Beloved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Preachers - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Preachers

Saint Dominic established a religious community in Toulouse in 1214, to be governed by the Rule of St. Augustine and statutes to govern the life of the friars, including the Primitive Constitution. (The statutes were inspired by the Constitutions of Prémontré.) The founding documents establish that the Order was founded for two purposes -- preaching and the salvation of souls. The organization of the Order of Preachers was approved in December 1216 by Pope Honorius III (see also Religiosam vitam; Nos attendentes). 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 27 October 2008 at 12:05pm
You've been deceived Seeks.
 
A true Catholic did not write that 'story', and that's all it is, a story. I don't believe a single word of it. The brother's research is seriously flawed. Dominus has hinted at some of that.
 
The person who wrote that story confused Catholic and Protestant Christianity. A blind man could see that.


Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 27 October 2008 at 12:10pm
Seeks, I do not doubt you in the least. Not for an instant. I know you are a very good and sincere soul and since getting to know you better have nothing but the greatest respect for you and know you have a great faith in God/Allah.
 
You may find though, that if Catholics come here - they may be led to doubt the integrity of certain claims when they read that story and see it being claimed as something it's obviously not - true.
 
 
God bless
 
K
 


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 8:52am

Hello, Seekshidayath

We read many such conversion stories from people of different faiths.

I have read quite a few astonishing stories written by evangelists showing how Muslims converted to Christainity but once I read I know it is made up.
 
However, I would like to add that most married Catholic priests are part of the Eastern Catholic Churches who are closer to Eastern Orthodox Churches and they may differ from the Westen Catholic Churches in this particular regard. I have read that there are about one hundred married Catholic priests in the USA alone.
 
Salaam alaikum
BMZ
 
 


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Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 3:14am

This article appeared in the September 1, 1994 issue of "The Arlington Catholic Herald." Courtesy of the "Arlington Catholic Herald" diocesan newspaper of the Arlington (VA) diocese. For subscription information, call 1-800-377-0511 or write 200 North Glebe Road, Suite 607 Arlington, VA 22203.

What's the deal about legally married priests?

Recently, I've heard of cases in Ohio and Texas where Anglican parishes have become Catholic parishes and Anglican priests, who are married, are allowed to become Catholic priests. I didn't know one could receive a dispensation from celibacy. So my question is, what's the deal? How can a married Anglican priest become a Roman Catholic priest and remain married? Is he required to obtain a special dispensation? From whom does he receive the dispensation?—A reader.

Since the mid-1970s, the Episcopalian Church in the United States has faced some serious internal turmoil. In 1976, women were ordained as priests, and more recently women have been ordained as bishops. In 1979, the Episcopalian Church revised the <Book of Common Prayer> using contemporary language as well as adding various liturgical options. Both of these incidents have caused heated debate and even schism. Now there is growing momentum for the celebration of homosexual marriages and the ordination of practicing homosexuals. Please note that I am simply citing events and neither being nosey about another Church's affairs nor relishing in their problems, especially when we Catholics have enough of our own.

These issues, and probably others as well, prompted some Episcopalian clergy and laity to consider entering the Roman Catholic Church. Most of these individuals would have viewed themselves as "Anglo-Catholic" or "High-Episcopalian," meaning that their beliefs and liturgical practices were very much "Roman" with the major contention being over the authority of the Holy Father. For example, when I was studying at St. Charles Seminary in Philadelphia, St. Clement's Episcopal Church advertised having Masses, Confessions, Benediction and Vespers; to attend one of their services was—I hate to say it—at least aesthetically more "Catholic" and reverential than some of the Catholic parishes I have visited.

Nevertheless, various requests about possible admission into the Catholic Church were made to Catholic bishops in the United States, who in turn contacted the Holy Father. In response, Pope John Paul II, through the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a clear although brief statement in June 1980.

First, the Holy See admitted allowing a "pastoral provision," which would provide "a common identity reflecting certain elements of their own heritage." Here an entire Episcopalian congregation could enter the Catholic Church and be allowed to remain a parish and use an Anglican-style Catholic Mass with either the traditional language of Archbishop Cranmer's <Book of Common Prayer> or the modern English version.

Second, individual members of the Episcopal Church could enter into the Catholic Church on their own initiative. As in accord with the "Decree on Ecumenism" of the Second Vatican Council, this action could be seen as a "reconciliation of those individuals who wish for full Catholic communion."

Finally, concerning married Episcopalian clergy becoming Catholic priests, "the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."

In other words, an ordained Episcopalian minister would make a profession of Faith and be received into the Catholic Church, and thereupon receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. He would then take appropriate courses which would enable him to minister as a Catholic priest.

After proper examination by his Catholic bishop and with the permission of the Holy Father, he would be then ordained first as a Catholic transitional deacon and then as a priest. If the former Episcopalian minister were single at the time of his ordination as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would indeed take the vow of celibacy. If the married former Episcopalian minister were ordained as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would be exempt by a special favor from the Holy Father of making the promise of celibacy; however, if he later became a widower, then he would be bound to a celibate lifestyle and could not remarry. In the future, if a lay member of one of these reunited parishes wanted to become a Catholic priest, he would be required to take the promise of celibacy.

The promise of celibacy is waived as a favor to those married clergy, given their particular circumstances and their desire to unite with the Catholic Church. However, the Holy Father has repeatedly affirmed the discipline of celibacy on Roman Catholic clergy of the Latin Rite. (Outside the United States, the Eastern Rites do not require the promise of celibacy except for bishops.)

Pope Paul VI in his encyclical, "Sacerdotalis Caelibatus" (1967) reflected that celibacy is an identification with Christ, who Himself was celibate; an act of sacrificial love whereby a priest gives of himself totally to the service of God and His Church; and a sign of the coming Kingdom of God, where Our Lord said, "In the resurrection, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven" (Mt 22:30).

Here is a good example of the Pastoral Provision in action: Recently, St. Mary the Virgin Episcopal Church in Arlington, Texas, under the pastorship of Father Allan Hawkins became St. Mary the Virgin Catholic Church, with the entire congregation, and Father Hawkins himself, becoming full members of the Catholic Church.

After much agonizing, the entire parish voted to petition Catholic Bishop Joseph P. Delaney about such a possibility in June 1991. The congregation and Father Hawkins were received; now after three years, Father Hawkins has been ordained as a Catholic priest and serves his parish as he did for 14 years as an Episcopalian minister. Father Hawkins noted, "The common journey through trials and difficulties strengthened us. Like the people of Israel crossing the desert, we have at last arrived at our true home; and we have been allowed to bring with us the most valued elements of our common heritage."

 

http://www.trosch.org/the/priests-marry.html -

 



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“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shema
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 2:19pm
your story is quite sad after i understand that u fell into the hands of shiites pls don try to read objectively and be a folllower of the Prophet's sunnah


Posted By: ahmad668
Date Posted: 04 December 2010 at 11:02am
Thank you for sharing. Subhanallah! Cry


Posted By: emsky1280
Date Posted: 12 December 2010 at 2:01am
I'm well inspired reading the stories...it's good to be here :)


Posted By: pure_columbian
Date Posted: 23 March 2011 at 4:07am
I think the lesson here is don't always believe what you read :-)


Posted By: samanthascotter
Date Posted: 14 April 2011 at 1:32am
I'm a Christian. But I really respect your religion. I salute you true Islams. Smile


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 15 April 2011 at 6:44am
Hello Samanthascotter

Thanks for your post

By the way, welcome to the discussion forum of Islamicity.

We wish you a very happy stay :)



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Abdullah elero
Date Posted: 27 April 2011 at 7:56pm
I'm a Abdullah,rodel Elero before,one of the hundred thousand embracing Islam


Posted By: Abdullah elero
Date Posted: 27 April 2011 at 7:57pm
Salaam.I'm Abdullah Elero from Manila Philippines


Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 28 April 2011 at 12:57pm
Walaikum as-salaam brother Abdullah Elero.  Truly all praise is due to Allah (swt) for having led you to the path of truth and salvation.  We would all love to hear your story.  It is also great to hear that so many of your countrymen are embracing Islam.  Alhamdulillah!

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)



Posted By: seeja
Date Posted: 13 October 2011 at 4:38am

"Assalamu 'alaykum." Seekshidayath

"Jazakullah."  For posting the story

May the almighty God give all the good rewards for you for spreading the news about the true religion and about the true almighty God.



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Islam (Total Surrender, Submission, Obedience, Sincerity and Peace with Allah) is for all people, in all places and in all times



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