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Do you see an hierarchy in the Trinity?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Discription: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12810
Printed Date: 31 August 2014 at 3:19am


Topic: Do you see an hierarchy in the Trinity?
Posted By: Salmaan
Subject: Do you see an hierarchy in the Trinity?
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 8:58am
As Salaamu Alaikum,

It's been a long time since I've visited these forums. Smile

Recently I've come across an interesting topic which I wanted to discuss:
"Hierarchy within the Trinity"

Christians have often claimed that The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are co-eternal and co-equal. Yet, we do not find any EXPLICIT reference to this in the Bible.

On the contrary the Bible demonstrates that the 3 persons of the Trinity are different in authority, knowledge and attributes.

To avoid over-complicating the subject; and to remain focused on the topic, I shall concentrate only on the issue of authority within the Trinity.

From an Islamic (and Jewish) perspective, there is no ambiguity as to who's in charge of the universe. i.e. ONE GOD who is the Ultimate Authority, who has no companions or family.

Most religions will agree that since God is the Ultimate Authority, He cannot be subordinate to anyone.

However, since the Christians believe in the doctrine of Trinity, three persons in one, how do they reconcile the fact that the Son is subservient to God (the Father)? Since God cannot be subservient, and Jesus was, Jesus cannot be God according to this principle.

Please ensure that the Bible, and its careful interpretation, are the primary basis upon which you answer this question. Not a copy n paste from another website w/o first understanding the issue yourself.

Passages on Authority

Before you state that Jesus humbled himself during his ministry on Earth, please consider the fact that Jesus (The Son) is always subservient to the Father in HEAVEN
        I have not come on my own (initiative); but he sent me (Jn 8:42)
and on EARTH
        Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the  head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3),

        'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' (Jn 20: 17).

The Father is NEVER subordinate to the Son either in OT or NT.

was'salaam,
Salmaan



Replies:
Posted By: icforumadmin
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 1:18pm

Assalamu alaikum Salmaan,

Welcome back. Happy to see you again.
 
admin


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Salmaan

As Salaamu Alaikum,

It's been a long time since I've visited these forums. Smile

Recently I've come across an interesting topic which I wanted to discuss:
"Hierarchy within the Trinity"

Christians have often claimed that The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are co-eternal and co-equal. Yet, we do not find any EXPLICIT reference to this in the Bible.

On the contrary the Bible demonstrates that the 3 persons of the Trinity are different in authority, knowledge and attributes.

To avoid over-complicating the subject; and to remain focused on the topic, I shall concentrate only on the issue of authority within the Trinity.

From an Islamic (and Jewish) perspective, there is no ambiguity as to who's in charge of the universe. i.e. ONE GOD who is the Ultimate Authority, who has no companions or family.

Most religions will agree that since God is the Ultimate Authority, He cannot be subordinate to anyone.

However, since the Christians believe in the doctrine of Trinity, three persons in one, how do they reconcile the fact that the Son is subservient to God (the Father)? Since God cannot be subservient, and Jesus was, Jesus cannot be God according to this principle.

Please ensure that the Bible, and its careful interpretation, are the primary basis upon which you answer this question. Not a copy n paste from another website w/o first understanding the issue yourself.

Passages on Authority

Before you state that Jesus humbled himself during his ministry on Earth, please consider the fact that Jesus (The Son) is always subservient to the Father in HEAVEN
        I have not come on my own (initiative); but he sent me (Jn 8:42)
and on EARTH
        Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the  head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3),

        'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' (Jn 20: 17).

The Father is NEVER subordinate to the Son either in OT or NT.

was'salaam,
Salmaan
 
But the Son is subordinate to The Father:-
 
1 Corinthians 15:28
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


Posted By: Salmaan
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by robin

 
But the Son is subordinate to The Father:-
 
1 Corinthians 15:28
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


So you agree that Jesus CANNOT be God since God doesn't submit to anyone (being the Ultimate Authority)?


Posted By: Salmaan
Date Posted: 17 July 2008 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by icforumadmin

Assalamu alaikum Salmaan,

Welcome back. Happy to see you again.
 
admin


Thank you!


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 22 July 2008 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Salmaan

Originally posted by robin

 
But the Son is subordinate to The Father:-
 
1 Corinthians 15:28
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.


So you agree that Jesus CANNOT be God since God doesn't submit to anyone (being the Ultimate Authority)?
 
Yes I do, as I do not believe that God and Jesus are the same person!


Posted By: Salmaan
Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 1:42am
Thanks Robin.

Any Christians who do believe in the doctrine of Trinity, care to respond?



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