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DoMuslims honor Jesus' wishes?

Printed From: IslamiCity.com
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Prophets - Jesus
Forum Discription: Prophets - Jesus
URL: http://www.IslamiCity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12743
Printed Date: 20 December 2014 at 9:33pm


Topic: DoMuslims honor Jesus' wishes?
Posted By: believer
Subject: DoMuslims honor Jesus' wishes?
Date Posted: 04 July 2008 at 7:02am
Matthew 26

 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Mark 14

   22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

 23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

 24"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

Luke 22

  14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

 17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

 19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



Replies:
Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 05 July 2008 at 7:30am
Originally posted by believer

Matthew 26

 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Mark 14

   22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

 23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

 24"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

Luke 22

  14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

 17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

 19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 
They disobey the one that call thier Prophet and thus disoby Allah!
 
So in a word, NO!


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 06 July 2008 at 12:19am
 robin, please correct the one sentence English of your last post. Make it understandable, what you want to say. What are you trying to accuse the muslim for? And how come?

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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 06 July 2008 at 11:01am
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by believer

Matthew 26

 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Mark 14

   22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

 23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

 24"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

Luke 22

  14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

 17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

 19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 
They disobey the one that call thier Prophet and thus disoby Allah!
 
So in a word, NO!
 
No Actually we do honor our prophets, much more so that those of you that wish to emphasize blood and gore and guts.
Prophet Jesus, PBUH, is not believed by Muslims to have been murdered on a stake or cross.
We honor the words and teachings of Jesus by not acknowedging the human corrupted versions of most Christian's scriptures. If you had the original aramaic version, we would be more appreciative. When you use the versions of the books written by the greek corrupted Paul, you are not even using a valid source in our estimations.
So Robin, if all scripture is inspired of God and is beneficial for teaching, reproving and setting things straight, then the Qu'ran is even more beneficial as it IS the Word of God, Allah, Jehovah,  Yahweh or however anyone may translate the Name of Almighty God, the Compassionate and Merciful. It is unadulterated in the Arabic form.
Robin, so far in your postings you have not shown that you believe God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael to be compassionate and a caring God. You mirror the reflection of the Romans when they translated your scriptures: blood, guts, gore, torture and death. I must be bloody in order to attain Paradise? Ithink not.
One of the pillars of Islam is Charity. Did not Jesus teach that Faith without works are dead?  We can attain a higher Jannah if we are diligent in sharing of our excesses with our hungry fellow man. the Quran states in a translation:
Al Baqara....2:110 And be steadfast in prayer and regular in charity: And whatever good ye send forth for your souls before you, ye shall find it with Allah. for Allah sees Well all that ye do.
 
2:177 It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing. - http://mediaserver.hadi.org:8080/ramgen/qurantts/2-177.rm?mode=compact"> English
 
This does not state to provide charity to only those who share the same faith or family, it states all.  The only passage I could find in the bible searching with the work charity:
 
Passage Matthew 6:2:
2 When you give to someone in need, don’t do as the hypocrites do—blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get.
 
Sure, there are many in the Paulist scriptures, but when I used this keyword in your bible this is the only gospel or torah scripture that came up. Are we missing something?
 
 


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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 10:10am
Originally posted by minuteman

 robin, please correct the one sentence English of your last post. Make it understandable, what you want to say. What are you trying to accuse the muslim for? And how come?
 

 

Read what Jesus said his obedient followers would do, and ask, do I do that, that will be your answer!  I will show who are followers of God.



Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 10:29am

Jehovah’s Witnesses are motivated by the kind of love that fulfills the Law given through the prophet Moses.   Such love never does injury to anyone and is more than mere "charity," according to the 20th-century sense of that term.   In the Bible, the Hebrew and Greek words for "love" signify far more than mere "charity."—See 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, King James Version; Catholic Douay Version.

 
Jesus said:-
 
Matthew 5:44-47
However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing?
 
 
The Quran says:-
 

Sura (Chapter) 9:29

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book*, until they pay the Jizya** with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

*Christians

**The Head Tax levied on non Muslims living in an Islamic country.

 

PARADISE FOR SOLIDERS!

The Holy Qur'an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali p.1315 says at:-

Surah (Chapter) 47:4
"4   Therefore, when ye meet* the Unbelievers (in fight),
smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): Thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself);
but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah,-He will never let their deeds be lost.

   6   And admit them to The Garden** which He Has announced for them."

*Footnote No. 4820 on page 1315:-
"When once the fight (Jihad) is entered upon, carry it out with utmost vigour, and strike home your blows at the most vital points (smite at their necks) both literally and figuratively. You cannot wage war with kid gloves."

**Footnote No. 4826 on page 1316:-
"The Garden which He has announced for them: the state of Bliss which is declared in Revelation to be destined for those who serve Allah,"
Surah 4:101 Section 15. When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers may attack you:
For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

Some Waring Religious Groups:-

HAMAS - Islamic Resistance Movement.

HAZBOLLAH - Party of God.
JAISH-E-MOHAMMED -
Army of Mohammed

 
 
Which follows the words of the prophet Jesus?
 
Try the following;-
1 Peter 2:17
Honor [men] of all sorts, . . 
 
Matthew 7:12
"All things, therefore, that YOU want men to do to YOU, YOU also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.
 
Luke 6:31
"Also, just as YOU want men to do to YOU, do the same way to them.
 
Romans 13:10
Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment.
 
Galatians 5:14
For the entire Law stands fulfilled in one saying, namely: "You must love your neighbor as yourself."
 
1 Timothy 1:5
Really the objective of this mandate is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy.
 
Matthew 5:9
"Happy are the peaceable, since they will be called ‘sons of God.’
 
Romans 12:18
If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men.
 
Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord
 
James 3:18
Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.
 
1 Thessalonians 5:13
Be peaceable with one another.
 
James 3:17-18
But the wisdom from above is first of all chaste, then peaceable, reasonable, ready to obey, full of mercy and good fruits, not making partial distinctions, not hypocritical. 18 Moreover, the fruit of righteousness has its seed sown under peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.
 
 
I see on this site that Muslims are very quick to condem the Bible, BUT they do not KNOW VERY MUCH ABOUT IT!


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 8:43pm
 
 Robin, the verse 9:28 was for those pagans who were defeated when Makkah was liberated. Yet they were not killed. There was a general amnesty and they were given 4 months to convert or leave the city. Four months is lot of time. About 7 years before that, the pagans of Makkah had planned to kill the prophet during his sleep. He had to flee for his life. The pagans did not let the prophet rest in Madinah too.
 
 Every year they used to attack Madinah (the capital city of the muslims). Why? Those people were war mongers and already condemned to death due to their bad activity. Those were the enemies of Islam. Islam does not always teach to love the enemy. It decides to love or punish the enemy according to his mental state.
 
If excusing him and loving him would help him then Islam allows to be kind to him. If such a love would spoil him all the more then Islam teaches to punish that rascal. Your religion is un-natural, non-practical. The teaching of Jesus was good and valid in the situation under Roman rule and under the bad practices of the Jewish people. Jesus was facing opposition on all sides. So he gave correct orders and advice. But that is not for all times and situations. No one would like to let the rascals go scott free and roam around killing people while the people offer the other cheek. Please admit that theory is not applicable at all times.
 
The verse you have mentioned is the correct thing. Also read the verse 9:27 before the verse 9:28.
 
Now about the other verses that you posted. They are not about simple disbelievers. Those verses are about the hostile enemy type disbelievers called kafirs. Don't think they are peaceful disbelievers. They are kafirs and it is allowed to fight the kafirs. No harm. he is enemy and fights the Muslims. The Muslims are told to fight and kill them.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 07 July 2008 at 9:08pm
 
 Robin, you have presented the verse 47:4 of Surah Muhammad  as follows:
 
 Surah (Chapter) 47:4
"4   Therefore, when ye meet* the Unbelievers (in fight),
smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): Thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself);
but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah,-He will never let their deeds be lost.

   6   And admit them to The Garden** which He Has announced for them."

 Please note  that these are verses of Surah Muhammad (47). Note in verse 3 and 4, there is the word Kafir. That is an open enemy of the faith. He is not a simple peaceful disbeliever. I have coloed red the word disbeliever in your post. Please read the verse as follows:

 
 "4   Therefore, when ye meet  the hostile war monger type disbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): Thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded):
 It shows that there is another party who is fighting. In such condition, it was  told to the Muslims to fight like hell. To kill some of them (not all)  and to bind them (those remaining alive) and keep them bound untill the war ends.
After that it was allowed to release those catured after getting some ransom or to release them without any ransom. All that is found in the verse itself.
 
 It further proves that there was no pressure to convert them to Islam. Even if they did not convert, they could be released without getting any ransom. Please see the words of the verse above.
 
 The word Kafir is used twice in that verse. Kafir is an open (manifest) declared enemy. No doubt about his enmity.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 12:48am
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 Robin, you have presented the verse 47:4 of Surah Muhammad  as follows:
 
 Surah (Chapter) 47:4
"4   Therefore, when ye meet* the Unbelievers (in fight),
smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): Thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): But if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself);
but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah,-He will never let their deeds be lost.

   6   And admit them to The Garden** which He Has announced for them."

 Please note  that these are verses of Surah Muhammad (47). Note in verse 3 and 4, there is the word Kafir. That is an open enemy of the faith. He is not a simple peaceful disbeliever. I have coloed red the word disbeliever in your post. Please read the verse as follows:

 
 "4   Therefore, when ye meet  the hostile war monger type disbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): Thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded):
 It shows that there is another party who is fighting. In such condition, it was  told to the Muslims to fight like hell. To kill some of them (not all)  and to bind them (those remaining alive) and keep them bound untill the war ends.
After that it was allowed to release those catured after getting some ransom or to release them without any ransom. All that is found in the verse itself.
 
 It further proves that there was no pressure to convert them to Islam. Even if they did not convert, they could be released without getting any ransom. Please see the words of the verse above.
 
 The word Kafir is used twice in that verse. Kafir is an open (manifest) declared enemy. No doubt about his enmity.
 
 
THE PROPHET JESUS SAID 'YOU MUST LOVE' THE "KAFIR", IF NOT YOU DO NOT FOLLOW THE PROPHET JESUS!
 
Examples of how the real followers of Jesus act:-
 

"A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [121-180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service." (The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, 1947, p. 333) "It will be seen presently that the evidence for the existence of a single Christian soldier between 60 and about 165 A.D. is exceedingly slight; . . . up to the reign of Marcus Aurelius at least, no Christian would become a soldier after his baptism." (The Early Church and the World, by C. J. Cadoux, 1955, pp. 275, 276) "In the second century, Christianity . . . had affirmed the incompatibility of military service with Christianity." (A Short History of Rome, by G. Ferrero and C. Barbagallo, 1919, p. 382) "The behavior of the Christians was very different from that of the Romans. . . . Since Christ had preached peace, they refused to become soldiers." (Our World Through the Ages, by N. Platt and M. J. Drummond, 1961, p. 125) "The first Christians thought it was wrong to fight, and would not serve in the army even when the Empire needed soldiers." (The New World's Foundations in the Old, by R. and W. M. West, 1929, p. 131) "The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service." ("Persecution of the Christians in Gaul, A.D. 177," by F. P. G. Guizot in The Great Events by Famous Historians, edited by R. Johnson, 1905, Vol. III, p. 246) "While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes."-The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416. (it-1 p.176)

 

and

 

"Certain religions were more popular with soldiers than others. There is no evidence of Christianity in the army during the first century A.D. possibly because the early Christians were strict pacificists.

 

5 Acts of Maximilianus 1.11-5 Musurillo 1972:17), AD 295

            On 12 March at Tebessa in the consulship of Tuscus and Anullinus, Fabius Victor was brought into the forum along with Maximilianus; Pompeianus was allowed to act as their advocate. He said 'Fabius Victor, agent responsible for the recruiting tax (temonarius), is present along with Valerianus Quintianus, imperial officer (Praepositus Caesariensis), and Victor's son Maximilianus, an excellent recruit. Since he has the necessary qualities, I request that he be measured'.

 

Dion the proconsul said: 'What is your name?'.

Maximilianus replied: 'Why do you want to know my name? I am a not permitted to serve in  the army since I am a Christian'.

Dion the proconsul said: 'Get him ready'.

While he was being made ready Maximilianus replied: 'I cannot serve in the army; I cannot do evil; I am a Christian'.

Dion the proconsul said: 'Let him be measured'.

When he had been measured, one of his staff said: 'He is five feet ten inches tall' (about 5 feet 8 inches in English measurements).

Dion said to his staff: 'Give him the military seal'.

Maximilianus, continuing to resist, replied: 'I am not going to do it; I cannot serve as a soldier'.

 

This is one of the more reliable of the Christian Martyr Acts, and may have been based on an a official report of the trial. If so, it serves as a good example of the examination of a potential recruit in the first two centuries of the imperial period since it is unlikely that the general procedures had changed significantly. The military seal was piece of lead containing a seal and the recruit's name, which he wore round his neck. For minimum height requirements, see Vegetius, 1.5."-The Roman Army 31BC-AD337 by Brian Campbell p.12



Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 4:33am

 

  That is beside the point. The words of Jesus were right for that time. It was necessary to be like that, to act like that. Even prophet Muhammad acted like that for thirteen years in Makkah. Exactly the way Jesus had advised his disciples.

 Remember that our prophet Muhammad is like Jesus and  like Moses a.s. He had two names, i.e. Muhammad and Ahmad.
 
The name Ahmad was in action in Makkah for the first 13 years. Ahmad means "The one who praises (Allah) most", i.e. the one who praises maximum. This name Ahmad is the Jamaali name, i.e. it has beauty and love and gentleness. (as had Jesus)
 
The name Muhammad was the picture of Moses a.s. Muhammad was like Moses a.s. and that name was in action in Madinah. That is the name called "jalaali=authoritative, glorious, powerful.  That was like Moses a.s.  Muhammad means "The one who is praised most (by Allah)", i.e. praise worthy.
 
  
 The problem is that love your enemy cannot be the ultimate lesson. Nobody can do it. But I know that Jehovas Witnesses are against bloodshed and they may be against joining armed forces too. That is their business and I would not say anything against that.
 
 But please remember that Islam does forget forgiving (loving) the enemy. It also tries to love the enemy if the love could be helpful (useful} to that enemy. I hope you understand the Islamic point of view.
 
 The Muslims are told to love and forgive the enemy if that will help him to understand things. If it would help him to come to the right track, better gentle way of life. (He need not become a Muslim. But he must become peaceful).
 But if love will not help him then there is no use loving him. That would spoil him all the more. I can present the verses of Quran in this regard that the teachings of the Quran do suggest loving and forgiving if it could be useful.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 10:16am

24      One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds    unduly, but comes to poverty.

25      A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Proverbs+11:23-26 - Proverbs 11:24-25

1
"Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
3
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4
so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew+6:1-6 - Matthew 6:1-4

13
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
14
and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke+14:12-15 - Luke 14:13-14
17
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?
18
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?1-John+3:16-19 - I John 3:17-18

    In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive."
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Acts+20:34-36 - Acts 20:35

    for riches do not endure forever, and a crown is not secure for all generations.
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Proverbs+27:23-25 - Proverbs 27:24

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?2-Corinthians+9:6-8 - II Corinthians 9:7

    Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew+10:7-9 - Matthew 10:8

    Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Ecclesiastes+5:9-11 - Ecclesiastes 5:10

    Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.
    http://www.gospelcom.net/bible?Hebrews+13:1-3 - Hebrews 13:2



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 10:58am

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=54236&FID=39 - - Matthew, Luke and Mark are not from St. Paul.  They are part of the very Gospel validated in the Quran.

005.068                                                                                                          YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over people without Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

 
Here is the Gospel dealing with the verses in the original aramaic.

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich26.pdf - http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich26.pdf

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/2_Mark/Marqsch14.pdf - http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/2_Mark/Marqsch14.pdf

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/3_Luke/Luqach22.pdf - http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/3_Luke/Luqach22.pdf



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 08 July 2008 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by minuteman

 

  That is beside the point. The words of Jesus were right for that time. It was necessary to be like that, to act like that. Even prophet Muhammad acted like that for thirteen years in Makkah. Exactly the way Jesus had advised his disciples.

 Remember that our prophet Muhammad is like Jesus and  like Moses a.s. He had two names, i.e. Muhammad and Ahmad.
 
The name Ahmad was in action in Makkah for the first 13 years. Ahmad means "The one who praises (Allah) most", i.e. the one who praises maximum. This name Ahmad is the Jamaali name, i.e. it has beauty and love and gentleness. (as had Jesus)
 
The name Muhammad was the picture of Moses a.s. Muhammad was like Moses a.s. and that name was in action in Madinah. That is the name called "jalaali=authoritative, glorious, powerful.  That was like Moses a.s.  Muhammad means "The one who is praised most (by Allah)", i.e. praise worthy.
 
  
 The problem is that love your enemy cannot be the ultimate lesson. Nobody can do it. But I know that Jehovas Witnesses are against bloodshed and they may be against joining armed forces too. That is their business and I would not say anything against that.
 
 But please remember that Islam does forget forgiving (loving) the enemy. It also tries to love the enemy if the love could be helpful (useful} to that enemy. I hope you understand the Islamic point of view.
 
 The Muslims are told to love and forgive the enemy if that will help him to understand things. If it would help him to come to the right track, better gentle way of life. (He need not become a Muslim. But he must become peaceful).
 But if love will not help him then there is no use loving him. That would spoil him all the more. I can present the verses of Quran in this regard that the teachings of the Quran do suggest loving and forgiving if it could be useful.
 
Through not doing as Jesus said fills the earth with evil violence and blood shed!

 

Thus religions are at fault that disobeys him!



Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 12:54am

Jesus Christ further deserves honour because the Bible says of him at:-

 

Matthew 28:18

And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: All authority has been given* me in heaven and on the earth.

*”Given” passed tense

 

Matthew 11:27

All things have been* delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.

*” have been” passed tense.

 

John 3:35

The Father loves the Son and has given* all things into his hand.

*”Given” passed tense

 

John 17:2

according as you have given* him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life.

*”Given” passed tense

 

Luke 10:22

All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”

*” have been” passed tense.

 

An further to the above he deserves honor because he is Jehovah’s chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix “arch,” meaning “chief” or “principal,” implies that there is only one archangel. God’s Word speaks of him in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. We read at 1 Thessalonians 4:16:-

 
"because the Lord [Jesus] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 

 

Of this archangel has a name, as we read at Jude 9:-

 

“When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: ‘May Jehovah rebuke you.’”

 

In not running ahead of Jehovah by daring to bring judgment against the Devil, Jesus thus honoured his God and heavenly Father Jehovah.



Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 2:32am
 
 robin, that is not the reply to my post. I had explained to you that our prophet acted like did Jesus for 13 years in Makkah. He never opposed the oppressor.  All the Muslims suffered very much at the hands o fthe pagans. The Muslims were killed in large numbers by the cruel pagans. The Muslims even had to migrate to a nearby decent christian kingdom. But the pagans followed the Muslims there too.
 
 So the prophet and Muslims did act (for 13 years) exactly as Jesus had been teaching. But I would remind you that Jesus had  a plan to buy the swords even by selling clothes. That is written in the bible. He had ordered for swords to be bought even by selling clothes. What was the purpose?? He was not doing anything useless or meaningless. The only thing is that he did not get that far where he could use a sword. He had the plan but his enemies caught up too quickly with him.


-------------
If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 11:30am
Originally posted by minuteman

 
 robin, that is not the reply to my post. I had explained to you that our prophet acted like did Jesus for 13 years in Makkah. He never opposed the oppressor.  All the Muslims suffered very much at the hands o fthe pagans. The Muslims were killed in large numbers by the cruel pagans. The Muslims even had to migrate to a nearby decent christian kingdom. But the pagans followed the Muslims there too.
 
 So the prophet and Muslims did act (for 13 years) exactly as Jesus had been teaching. But I would remind you that Jesus had  a plan to buy the swords even by selling clothes. That is written in the bible. He had ordered for swords to be bought even by selling clothes. What was the purpose?? He was not doing anything useless or meaningless. The only thing is that he did not get that far where he could use a sword. He had the plan but his enemies caught up too quickly with him.

 

Like Jesus true Christian engage in spiritual warfare:-

 
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings* and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge* of God; and we are bringing every thought* into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ. .."
*Thus spiritual

We do as Jesus did said, when he was dying, 'forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.'



Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 3:57pm
LOL!!  minuteman how many times do we have to repeat-
READ THE WHOLE STORY!! 
 
You will never understand Jesus and the Gospel if you don't  close the Quran, open your heart and read the true Gospel. 
 
Why do I say close the Quran-because there is nothing in the Quran that tells you about Jesus' holy character.
 
Excuse me for shouting but If you are unable to read what I have pasted PLEASE read the part I made bold.
 
Luke 22
 
33But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death."

 34Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

 35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
      "Nothing," they answered.

 36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

 38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
      "That is enough," he replied.

Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives
 39Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." 41He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

 45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46"Why are you sleeping?" he asked them. "Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation."

Jesus Arrested
 47While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"

 49When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

 51But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

 52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour—when darkness reigns."



-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 11 July 2008 at 10:07pm
 
 What Jesus said was right and what he taught was also right. In a situation like he was, it was the best and the only teaching i.e. love every one, even thy enemy. There was no other way at that time. There was Roman (pagan, foreign) rule. His own people were highly spoiled and ignorant. The clergy were using the religion of Judaism only for their bad ideas (wishes).
 
 What you have written above is very much true. I am with you. I do not carry any weapon. I am struggling against the bigots. My weapons are only spiritual weapons and love is foremost, with zero hatred.
 
 I know you are JW and you have similar ideology. You also believe in complete peaceful manners. But there are reports of your links with other militant groups, in the past. I cannot say anything about that. I only read it here on this net.
 
 If you love Jesus you have got to love Muhammad too. Otherwise you are nowhere in any religious ideology. For that you have to learn some real things by reading the Quran. Many things about Judaism and christianity are found in the Quran.
 
 I as a Muslim have all the love for Jesus and Moses and Muhammad and Mary and apostles of Jesus. There is  no bad word to be found about the above named persons in the Quran. Nothing bad. The Quran can make a man into a model like a prophet (saint) even today. There is nothing good in the bible which is not found in the Quran. Every good thing of the bible is present in the Quran.
 
 Same is about Torah. All good things of Torah are found in the Quran. Nothing is missing. Muhammad was guided and given the gift of being an example of all the previous prophets of Allah. he was told to follow the good steps of all the previous prophets of Allah. He was the super seal of all prophets. The prophethood of all prophets of God is proved by Muhammad. If there is no Quran then the prophethood of any one cannot be proved.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 July 2008 at 10:51am

Thank you minuteman if you are responding to me. 

Are you saying that I have been linked with a militant group?  You can private message me.
 
I can love Mohammad as a fellow human, a saint and a sinner like all of us, but do not have to consider him a prophet of GOD.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 1:06am
Originally posted by minuteman

 robin, please correct the one sentence English of your last post. Make it understandable, what you want to say. What are you trying to accuse the muslim for? And how come?
 
Jesus COMMANDED HIS followers to pass the bread and wine between themselves on Nisan 14th each year, if that is not done then they do not obey him!


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 24 July 2008 at 1:21am
Originally posted by believer

Thank you minuteman if you are responding to me. 

Are you saying that I have been linked with a militant group?  You can private message me.
 
I can love Mohammad as a fellow human, a saint and a sinner like all of us, but do not have to consider him a prophet of GOD.
 
 Sorry, beleiver, my long post was not for you. It was for robin. Please read all that again (or do not read it). It was not addressed to you.
 
 You are a believer. You believe in Jesus and perhaps Moses too. It is alright. You believe in God. That is very well. If you do not like to believe that Muhamamd is a servant and messenger of God (Allah) then it is upto you. You can have your religion as you like. I have no objection. You are absolutely free to adopt your faith as you like. That is the message of Islam.
 
 I had to read one of your posts about the arrest of Jesus. It is not the first time that I had read it. It is all very clear that the religious bigots had got onto Jesus too quickly. They were the enemies of Jesus and enemies of truth. They did what they did. But they lost the battle in the end. The Quran describes that too. It says that some people believed in Jesus and some disbelieved (opposed severely). Allah says "Then We helped the believers in Jesus to prevail upon the disbelievers.."
 
 I read your post and I fully agree with what happened at the time of the arrest of Jesus. Thanks.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 25 July 2008 at 7:19am
LOL!  OK no problem.
 
I have had this theory that Mohammad started out as a good person, believing in GOD and the truth about Jesus.
 
Mohammad understood the need to follow the one True GOD and not the pagan gods of early Arabia.  He was sincerely trying to help the pagans see the Truth.  Mohammad's first verses could be used like a study guide to get to the full meaning of the Bible. 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 November 2008 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by robin

Originally posted by believer

Matthew 26

 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Mark 14

   22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

 23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

 24"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

Luke 22

  14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God."

 17After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you. 18For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

 19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

 
They disobey the one that call thier Prophet and thus disoby Allah!
 
So in a word, NO!
 
 
Robin,
don't speak for me or anyone of us, please only speak for yourself, because you will only be asked about what you said and did.
Calling Jesus what he was not (god) is a dis-honor. And most of Christians seem to do that. Muslims on the other hand honor him for what he was, a servant of God, a messanger whom God sent to guide his people.
 
Jew also dis-honored him, they refused to believe he was the Massiah, they called him an illegitimate child and persuaded the rulers of that time to kill him. God Almighty saved him from being killed by his enemies and saved and reaised him to Himself.
 
Hasan


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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 21 March 2009 at 11:20pm
 
peace upon all
yes muslims do honor jesus' wishes:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=8&verse=40&version=31&context=verse - John 8:40
"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
 
as you can read in the above jesus came to save them from themselves by bring them[ jews] back to the true faith of abraham. they did not "do the things abraham did".
   just as islam is tring to do for you and all humanity.
see jesus and islam share the same goal. islam like jesus can only share the message. all the rest is in your hands
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 4:28pm

peace!

more withes upheld!

Matthew 23:8-10 (New International Version)

 8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.

i do believe this is upheld in islam. there are no rabbis,priests,pastors, or any one between god and humanity.{ except in some sects }. as all know to be muslim is to be a brother or a sister no matter of race,nationality,station or position,rich or poor we are all the same.  only our need to know gods truths allows us to stand apart from others in his eyes.
love
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 18 April 2009 at 4:34pm
Nazarene - In Islam Mohammad is between me and GOD.  I can not be a muslim/submitter according to Muslims without following Mohammad.  In Islam Mohammad, hadith, tsafir are between you and GOD.
 
In an Islamic country I would not be able to pray or worship to GOD.  LOL!  No visiting Mecca because I choose to follow the most unique messanger in the Quran, the one with the clear signs!
 
honeto- you dis-honor jesus by not understanding that the Messiah was the deliverer of mankind.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by believer

salaam
 
Nazarene - In Islam Mohammad is between me and GOD.  I can not be a muslim/submitter according to Muslims without following Mohammad.  In Islam Mohammad, hadith, tsafir are between you and GOD.
 
your lost my friend. after all the time you spent in this forum and you believe this , oh well,gods the finisher of all arguements.
 
In an Islamic country I would not be able to pray or worship to GOD.  LOL!
 
which one? Slanderstan or the kingdom of Barefalsewitness. 
 
No visiting Mecca because I choose to follow the most unique messanger in the Quran, the one with the clear signs!
 
yes gods beloved jesus { p} did bring clear signs. but why did the church water them down and covered them up? 
 
   honeto- you dis-honor jesus by not understanding that the Messiah was the deliverer of mankind.
   do you honor jesus by using him as a " human sacrifice ". sounds kinda aztec or myan to me . but what do i know i'm not a pagan. FORGIVE HIM HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES. OR DO YOU?
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 29 May 2009 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by believer

Nazarene - In Islam Mohammad is between me and GOD.  I can not be a muslim/submitter according to Muslims without following Mohammad.  In Islam Mohammad, hadith, tsafir are between you and GOD.
 
In an Islamic country I would not be able to pray or worship to GOD.  LOL!  No visiting Mecca because I choose to follow the most unique messanger in the Quran, the one with the clear signs!
 
honeto- you dis-honor jesus by not understanding that the Messiah was the deliverer of mankind.
 
And I thought being on this forum will benefit you my friend through learning, I don't see that really taking place!
In Islam, there is none between a person and God Almighty. You are lying when you said what you said above.
Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is only helping us correct our direction of worship to our Creator alone, like a teacher.
 
Unlike your understanding, that a mortal (Jesus), a servant of God will be between you and God as an intercessor, or that his blood will pay for the sins of all, in Islam we don't have any such belief.
 
I as a Muslim cannot deny that Jesus was sent by God, and delivered salvation for mankind who followed him in truth just as there were many of God's messengers sent to mankind for different eras.
So you are wrong again, in blaming me that I don't honor Jesus. I feel you dishonor God, when you say, that someone other than God, in this case Jesus, is God.
Hasan
 


-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 3:56pm

 Do Muslims honor Jesus' wishes?

 Any my question is:Do Christians honor Muhammad' wishes?

 


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 18 October 2009 at 10:31am
absolutely not- we are not sure that he is a prophet from the One True GOD.
 
Why follow a sinful man when you can have Jesus in your heart?


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 06 December 2009 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by believer

absolutely not- we are not sure that he is a prophet from the One True GOD.
 
Why follow a sinful man when you can have Jesus in your heart?


Dear friend, One true God does not beget sons or daughters, nor God has father nor mother. For that, He is God, the Creators of All, not Created Himself. Nor does God appears takes form of His Creatures, like a man, monkey, elephant or so on.

A serious question arises: Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah, called him names, and according to the Bible, crucified him. Yet, according to the same book the "salvation is of the Jews."
Something does not make sense on this in the Bible.


Jesus, like Mohammed (pbut) was sent for no other purpose than to bring people back to the worship of One God. Thus Muslims of his times (those who followed him, in worship of One God) and of this times do what is rightfully expected of us: to worship none other, but our maker, God Almighty. And as Muslim that is exactly what we do, thus we not only honor wishes of Adam and all the prophets through Mohammed (pbut) but thus we fulfill our purpose as humans. And one day expect to be in their company in heaven as a Mercy and reward from God.

Hasan



-------------
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"


Posted By: Empiricist
Date Posted: 18 March 2012 at 10:20am
Sorry for the long post but I think it is a good example of the body vs spirit.  Nicodemus does not get the idea.  Nor do many others.  Maybe they do not want to understand.  
 
Regarding the birth of Jesus, God evidently modified the genes of an egg of Mary, causing it to grow into a baby.  I see nothing wrong with this concept. 
 
Later Jesus was baptized by John and the holy spirit descended down into Jesus and God spoke.  Seems to me this is a clear message that God was involved, and prophecy fulfilled.  This was an example of what happens to people when baptized.  Jesus is meant to be an example of perfection.  God did this for us, yet many rejected Jesus and killed him.  Of course God knew this would happen.  But it is the final sacrifice.  It is symbolic of Jesus dying for all of us.  God could have just killed everyone but God is loving and this is part of our spiritual growth.

John 3

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
 1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. #fen-NIV-26124a - a ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26124a - a ]

 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit #fen-NIV-26127b - b ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26127b - b ] gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You #fen-NIV-26128c - c ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26128c - c ] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” #fen-NIV-26129d - d ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26129d - d ]

 9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

   10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. #fen-NIV-26134e - e ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26134e - e ] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, #fen-NIV-26135f - f ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26135f - f ] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” #fen-NIV-26136g - g ]'>[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26136g - g ]

 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.



Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 19 March 2012 at 12:16pm
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,



So who is lying here.you say the only son now compare this.

SONS OF GOD : The Bible ascribes sons by the tons to
God.
(a) "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which
was the son of Adam, which was the SON OF GOD." LUKE 3:38
(b) "That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took wives of all which they chose.
   ". . . when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty
men which were of old, men of renown." GENESIS 6:2 and 4
(c) ". . . Thus saith the Lord, Israel is MY SON even my
FIRSTBORN." EXODUS 4:22
(d) ". . . and Ephraim is my FIRSTBORN." JEREMIAH 31:9
(e) ". . . Thou (O David) ART MY SON; this day have I (God)
BEGOTTEN thee." PSALMS 2:



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